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KS_Stevia
08-17-2010, 06:17 PM
Ummm, its not all about the guy getting to bang what he wants. She gets to fuck other men too! And women, or what have you. Everyone is getting something out of it.

Personally, I prefer monogamy with threesomes and plenty of cheating!

jack0177057
08-18-2010, 11:19 AM
Perhaps we could all agree that all of us need to work at overcoming our jealosies and insecurities.

I disagree. I think these two get a bum rap. They serve a useful purpose - when in moderation.

Jealousy - you have to protect the relationship you have because it can come under attack by temptresses and seducers with ulterior motives and hidden agendas. One spouse may be seduced and temporarily lose their better judgment by another person's beauty, youth, wealth, glamor, sophistication, false sympathies, etc. There will always be richer, smarter, younger and better looking people who show an interest in your partner, but that doesn't mean you partner will be better off with them. It is beneficial for both partners in a relationship to be protective of each other. If my eyes become glued to a hot sultry 20-something girl that just wants to take my money, and I put everything in my life at risk for her, I want my wife or GF to fight for me and help me regain my better judgment.

I assume that in a swinging couple, there is no sexual jealousy, but emotional jealousy does exist. For example, if the swinger husband or wife falls madly in love with a person they swing with and desires a romantic relationship with that person, this would create a problem. If there are children, the husband's or wife's "love" affair with the outsider causes too many distractions from family time and responsibilities. I mentioned before that my grandfather at one point in his life simultaneously had three families in three different homes. Most people find it challenging to balance work and family, he had to balance work, wife and legitimate kids, mistress #1 and a first set of illegitimate kids, and mistress #2 and a second set of illegitimate kids. Maybe my grandmother should have been more jealous and assertive.

Insecurity - is nothing more than the simple realization that my partner is free to leave any time, and that I should not take her for granted. The opposite of insecurity is hubris and arrogance which is worst than insecurity, so a moderate amount of mutual insecurity is good - neither partner should take the other for granted. Both need to work hard to make the relationship mutually pleasurable and beneficial.

Golden_Rule
08-18-2010, 04:54 PM
I disagree. I think these two get a bum rap. They serve a useful purpose - when in moderation.

Just my opinion:

Jealousy has to do with two things only.

1) Lack of security in self. In which case it might be time to think about working on you.

2) Lack of trust in your other half. In which case it might be time to think about looking for another half.


In a healthy relationship jealousy truly has no place. If its rearing its ugly head it is a good signal that the relationship isn't healthy.

Melonie
08-18-2010, 05:15 PM
I'm a total believer in 'serial' monogamy .... NEXT !

classyguy
08-18-2010, 11:08 PM
Ummm, its not all about the guy getting to bang what he wants. She gets to fuck other men too! And women, or what have you. Everyone is getting something out of it.

Personally, I prefer monogamy with threesomes and plenty of cheating!

KS Stevia wins the prize for my favoirte post in this whole thread. In two short lines you managed to take both sides. Congratulations!

BTW, Girl Undressed's comment about men and foreplay is a very close second.

jack0177057
08-19-2010, 09:10 AM
Just my opinion:

Jealousy has to do with two things only.

1) Lack of security in self. In which case it might be time to think about working on you.

2) Lack of trust in your other half. In which case it might be time to think about looking for another half.

You've got to realize something - ANYONE (even married people with children) can exit a relationship at ANY TIME, if that person gets bored, feels taken for granted, feels he/she is better off alone or finds an upgrade (better-looking, healthier, in better shape, younger, sexier, wealthier, more successful, more powerful, more sexually aggressive, etc.). Insecurity is not irrational, it is the simple recognition of this essential truth.

INSECURITY IS GOOD - I want my GF or wife to be a little insecure, so that she:
(1) doesn't take me for granted and does nice things for me,
(2) works out and doesn't allow herself to get obese like other women her age,
(3) looks like a prize date when we go out, and
(4) dresses sexy for me and fucks my brains out, even when she's not in the mood.

In a business, insecurity is vital - you don't take your customers for granted. Customer "loyalty" is only accomplished through excellence in customer service - excellent service and communication. Businesses provide excellent customer service because of the fear and insecurity of losing their customers to competitors.

Ah, but love is not a business transaction, you say.

Romantic relationships start off with "love" which is a short-lived intoxicating - irrational and impractical feeling. But, after the "high" wears off, it becomes a practical partnership. You've got to offer each other high value and excellent customer service on a continuous basis. Otherwise, he or she justified in seeking a better "deal". Why be stuck with an inferior product? (By "product" I mean the whole package - you can be ugly and broke, and still be an awesome "product" by the love and support you provide her. On the other hand, if you are ugly, broke and a jackass to her - she's completely justified in seeking an "upgrade".)

Insecurity helps to maintain the product fresh and competitive with other products available in the market place.

I'm not talking about a GF or wife that stalks you and calls you every 15-minutes when you're on a business trip or that wraps her arms around your leg to keep you from going to the local bar to meet your friends.

I'm talking about a GF or wife that keeps up with "the competition" by staying fit, dressing sexy, and being a seductive little sex kitten (or hungry lioness) in the bedroom.


In a healthy relationship jealousy truly has no place. If its rearing its ugly head it is a good signal that the relationship isn't healthy.

I don't know if you've been in a marriage or long term relationship. Its too easy to get into a routine and take each other for granted. A hate when this happens, but it tends to. I want my GF or wife to "compete" for me, even if I am already hers. (And I'll compete for her, too, by wooing her like we're on a first date even after we've been together for 20 years.)

On the other hand, excessive stalkerish teary insecurity is repulsive.

princessjas
08-19-2010, 04:32 PM
You've got to realize something - ANYONE (even married people with children) can exit a relationship at ANY TIME, if that person gets bored, feels taken for granted, feels he/she is better off alone or finds an upgrade (better-looking, healthier, in better shape, younger, sexier, wealthier, more successful, more powerful, more sexually aggressive, etc.). Insecurity is not irrational, it is the simple recognition of this essential truth.

INSECURITY IS GOOD - I want my GF or wife to be a little insecure, so that she:
(1) doesn't take me for granted and does nice things for me,
(2) works out and doesn't allow herself to get obese like other women her age,
(3) looks like a prize date when we go out, and
(4) dresses sexy for me and fucks my brains out, even when she's not in the mood.

In a business, insecurity is vital - you don't take your customers for granted. Customer "loyalty" is only accomplished through excellence in customer service - excellent service and communication. Businesses provide excellent customer service because of the fear and insecurity of losing their customers to competitors.

Ah, but love is not a business transaction, you say.

Romantic relationships start off with "love" which is a short-lived intoxicating - irrational and impractical feeling. But, after the "high" wears off, it becomes a practical partnership. You've got to offer each other high value and excellent customer service on a continuous basis. Otherwise, he or she justified in seeking a better "deal". Why be stuck with an inferior product? (By "product" I mean the whole package - you can be ugly and broke, and still be an awesome "product" by the love and support you provide her. On the other hand, if you are ugly, broke and a jackass to her - she's completely justified in seeking an "upgrade".)

Insecurity helps to maintain the product fresh and competitive with other products available in the market place.

I'm not talking about a GF or wife that stalks you and calls you every 15-minutes when you're on a business trip or that wraps her arms around your leg to keep you from going to the local bar to meet your friends.

I'm talking about a GF or wife that keeps up with "the competition" by staying fit, dressing sexy, and being a seductive little sex kitten (or hungry lioness) in the bedroom.



I don't know if you've been in a marriage or long term relationship. Its too easy to get into a routine and take each other for granted. A hate when this happens, but it tends to. I want my GF or wife to "compete" for me, even if I am already hers. (And I'll compete for her, too, by wooing her like we're on a first date even after we've been together for 20 years.)

On the other hand, excessive stalkerish teary insecurity is repulsive.

See, even if I'm completely secure in a relationship I do all the things you mention....why? Because I care about my partner and therefore want to make them happy. I seriously don't think there is any room for jealousy in a healthy relationship. Caring for your partner should be enough to motivate you not to take them for granted.

jack0177057
08-19-2010, 07:09 PM
^ Okay, here is a question for you, then --- Let's say your husband meets someone who is better than you. Let's say she's Angelina Jolie. (I'm not saying Angelina is really better than you, just using her as an example.) Any man would kill for this woman and she is only interested in your husband, but, she wants him all to herself. He has to leave you to be with her (you can only be friends and chat on the phone).

You love him and want to be with him, but you know in your heart that he would be happier with Angelina. (He would live in a huge mansion with one of the sexiest women in the planet, own a fleet of exotic cars, travel to anyplace in the world on a private jet, have vacation mansions all over the world, etc. --- and don't say these things wouldn't really make him happy.)

If you had no jealousy issues at all, and wanted him to achieve the happiest life possible, you would say - Go with her, you must go - she's beautiful, rich, famous, glamorous and charitable, with a heart of gold. I'm so happy for you. If it doesn't work out, come back to me and we'll be together again.

But, would you really do and say that?

Or... would you say - Don't be an idiot, she'll dump you after a week and you'll be coming back to me crying. You really think she wants you? Are you really that gullible? So what if she's super rich and ultra sexy? That's all material and superficial stuff. She'll never love you the way I do. Do you really want to make this monumental mistake? Don't expect me to be waiting for you, when she kicks you out on your sorry ass! I've done so much for you - when you were laid off, I paid all the bills,... when you were sick, I took care of you all day and night,... when you were sad and depressed, I held your hand and lifted your spirits,... I've given you everything I've got - all my heart and soul... and you're going to leave me now? You are the most selfish and ungrateful prick I've ever met!

Jessie_tinydancer
08-19-2010, 08:40 PM
^hahaha my husband would say to Angelina... "I really glad you like girls because my wife is hot"... my guess is Angelina and I would get on like a house and fire and I'd be the one offered to move in.

But as to the actual point of the story. I just couldnt see my husband falling in love with someone else. He adores me. No one knows him like me. No one treats him like I do. You don't just meet someone randomly and then throw away years on a whim just because you are open to sex with other people. Of course anyone can have the wool pulled over their head and if something like that happened of course it would hurt and it would hurt bad because its betrayal. Its not because of jealousy. We made vows to stay together till we are old and wrinkly and that's what I plan to do so I expect the same respect. But if my husband really thought he'd be happier with someone else... why would I want to be with him? I have more self respect than that.

Jessie_tinydancer
08-19-2010, 08:45 PM
Oh and something more interesting Jack that I just thought of. I do get jealous... but not with my husband. I get jealous of play partners. Its true! I dont act stupid or anything cause I know its my problem but I'll give an example. I have a very very close GF. I would almost consider that I have a secondary relationship with her. Anyway she came one time to a party where one of my favourite play guys was at. I wasn't jealous of him because I know she loves me and I feel confident about our connection. But I was jealous of her because he obviously liked her so much and since I dont have a strong personal relationship with him it's like I want to gain his attention more. I just think like Golden Rule mentioned jealousy comes from insecurities and if I feel secure I don't get jealous whether it be in a monogamous relationship or an open one.

Jessie_tinydancer
08-19-2010, 08:50 PM
See, even if I'm completely secure in a relationship I do all the things you mention....why? Because I care about my partner and therefore want to make them happy. I seriously don't think there is any room for jealousy in a healthy relationship. Caring for your partner should be enough to motivate you not to take them for granted.

LOL sorry for not using mquote I wrote first and now going back and reading... but hello! ya! Me too. I would never let myself go or treat my husband like crap. Part of the reason we have a strong relationship is the fact that we shower each other with so much attention. In fact thats one reason why we don't want kids, we don't want the attention we give to each other to be lost.

I'm certainly not saying my relationship is perfect. Nor am I saying open relationships are better than monogamous ones. I'm happy to do either really. I think you just do what works for you and realise that other people may have other arrangements that work for them. And I can say without doubt that if my relationship were to dissolve it would have nothing to do with swinging. Daily stresses like work, money, time, kids, and life in general would be much more likely to be the culprit. Swingings just what we do for fun, it doesnt define us or our relationship.

jack0177057
08-20-2010, 08:24 AM
Of course anyone can have the wool pulled over their head and if something like that happened of course it would hurt and it would hurt bad because its betrayal. Its not because of jealousy. We made vows to stay together till we are old and wrinkly and that's what I plan to do so I expect the same respect. But if my husband really thought he'd be happier with someone else... why would I want to be with him? I have more self respect than that.

This gets to the essence of it - why make vows at all. If you love something, let it go free. Why consider it a betrayal? If a better opportunity comes along for your husband (I know this is hard for many people to accept), why should he be deprived of a potentially happier and more fulfilling life?... People change, conditions change, etc. I may have been the best opportunity to come along when my GF or wife and I first met, but 5, 10, 15 years later, she may run across a better opportunity, someone that is more compatible and can offer her more fulfillment.

I'll make this comparison - P is my best friend who was also my lover (i.e., sexual partner), but she was never my "girlfriend". We met in law school and were inseparable - studied together, drank together, hung out all the time, had lots of sex, etc. M is my current GF in a serious relationship. We love each other romantically with a modest amount (hardly noticeable) of jealousy and insecurity (I would never "share" her with anyone).

There was no jealousy with P. I loved her dearly (in a non-romantic best friends way, though romantic feelings did creep up once in a while), but she was free to sleep with anyone and she was free to leave any time. If she met the perfect guy and told me she was moving with him to Paris tomorrow, I would have been happy and excited for her. --- This was truly a relationship without jealousy or insecurity - based on friendship love, mutual admiration and respect, mutual enjoyment of each other's company and sexual attraction.

If M told me she met someone better than me (hard to imagine, but I'm sure there is at least one person better than me in this world) and she was moving with him to Paris, I would feel jealous, insecure, confused, angry and betrayed.

So, my answer to liberation from "jealousy" (if you insist) is to get rid of "romance" and "vows" altogether. Be like P and me.

Jessie_tinydancer
08-20-2010, 07:51 PM
^ and I am saying it is not the only way. You can still have romance and vows without jealousy. I certainly consider my husband more than a friend I love. I have those friends. The difference is that commitment that we made to be each others' first priority. If suddenly he started making someone else his sole priority then there would be a problem because that's not part of the arrangement. The reason it is at all possible is because of the romantic connection. I totally agree though that in many situations this would not be possible... because of jealousy and hence your and P's type of relationship more suitable.

When I think of jealousy I think of the partner who is always asking where you are and who you are with. Wonders why you are so close with that person of the opposite sex at work. Accuses you of flirting with someone else.

All of the above things are things that are allowed in my relationship because my partner an I trust that if we did have some other motive we would be honest about it.

I am in fact really really close with one of the bouncers I work with. I mean we don't see each other outside of work except after work, but we text and after work always chat and have drinks or we chat on facebook. We are flirty and affectionate, but by no means is there anything sinister in it. Both his wife and my husband know when we get home pissed drunk at 7 or 8am we've probably been drinking together but never once has either of them shown any jealousy. (They don't have an open relationship but his wife is one who doesn't get jealous). Mind you they both get mad mainly just cause we egg each other on and end up getting retarded, but its not the part that we are together they don't like, just the messy part that is each of us. Now I love this friendship and I think the point Jas and I are making is if your partner is jealous, you just can't do stuff like that. Even if there is absolutely no intention behind it. That would be devastating for me especially since most of my close friends in life have been men.

classyguy
08-21-2010, 12:12 AM
It seems that we are right back where we started. I thnk everyone agrees with Jack that if your partner falls in love with someone else, or if they find someone else they want more - its a dealbreaker. The relationship is doomed.

The point the monogamists will not (or perhaps cannot) concede is that people can have sex without falling in love - or without committment. Sex with a loving and committed partner can be sublime. But sex with an attractive stranger can be very good too. Sometimes it can be just fun. Sometimes it is just sex. People can be completely in love with their partner, but still have fun with someone else - without it being serious.

If two people find one another appealing, they can shake hands, they can hug, they can kiss, they can fllirt, they can give a lap dance, or maybe they can fuck. But if, in their minds, the encounter is casual - the encounter is casual.

classyguy
08-21-2010, 12:18 AM
Its been my experience that confidence is much more valuable in any business setting than insecurity. Confident businessmen conclude a lot more successful deals than do insecure ones.

And maybe its just me, but I find a confident woman much more of a turn-on than an insecure woman - and I find a confident relationship much more satisfying than one based on insecurity.

jack0177057
08-23-2010, 08:25 AM
^ There are two very attractive and sexy women on this thread that match what you want. For sure, there are many more out there. Check out the local swinger's clubs, swinger magazine, swinger personals, etc.

As far as most women who prefer monogamy - this is their choice and you cannot presume that this choice is based on "insecurity" and lack of "confidence" - that is insulting and arrogant.

If you want to turn a monogamist girl into a swinger - you should do it with seduction not logic and rationality. Arguing about the evils of jealousy and insecurity (and the virtue of having license to fuck other people whenever you want) will just make her angry and resentful, and she would end up leaving you.

Here's how you should do it -

(1) tell her you don't want to swing, but that you want to check out a swinging party out of curiosity and you want to have sex with her in front of other people (a popular fantasy) at the swinging party. Then, you progressively experiment with swinging parties until she feels comfortable and tempted to try it; or

(2) for a special occasion, tell her you have a big surprise and bring her the best-looking male escort you can find (and afford) to "massage" her. Tell her it's alright to enjoy the massage (which starts off innocently) and that you want her to experience the fullest relaxation and pleasure. He can seduce her and you can keep assuring her that's its all right for her to enjoy herself, that she gets a "free pass" to do anything she wants with him, and you want her to experience the ultimate pleasure. After she finishes having sex with him, and you two are in bed talking about it, you can introduce the subject of sharing and swinging. She might say 'no', though - no guarantees.

Golden_Rule
08-26-2010, 02:19 AM
INSECURITY IS GOOD - I want my GF or wife to be a little insecure, so that she...


It is probably just arguing semantics but I don't think "insecure" is a word you can use that way. Its like saying someone is a "little pregnant".

You either insecure or you aren't, and if you are then there is a problem.


I don't know if you've been in a marriage or long term relationship. Its too easy to get into a routine and take each other for granted. A hate when this happens, but it tends to. I want my GF or wife to "compete" for me, even if I am already hers. (And I'll compete for her, too, by wooing her like we're on a first date even after we've been together for 20 years.)

On the other hand, excessive stalkerish teary insecurity is repulsive.

Twice married. First lasted 12 years. Second 13 and counting.

Maybe it is just semantics again but I don't need my wife to complete me. I don't believe she needs me to complete her either. We are both complete individuals in our own right. What I know my wife does for me, and I hope I do for her, is she enhances my existence. I am better for knowing and loving her than I would be if I didn't. I don't want to take her for granted, though occasionally I do, even as she does me on occasion. Neither of us, I would hope, is insecure about either ourselves or the other because of that though.

princessjas
08-26-2010, 05:35 AM
It is probably just arguing semantics but I don't think "insecure" is a word you can use that way. Its like saying someone is a "little pregnant".

You either insecure or you aren't, and if you are then there is a problem.



Twice married. First lasted 12 years. Second 13 and counting.

Maybe it is just semantics again but I don't need my wife to complete me. I don't believe she needs me to complete her either. We are both complete individuals in our own right. What I know my wife does for me, and I hope I do for her, is she enhances my existence. I am better for knowing and loving her than I would be if I didn't. I don't want to take her for granted, though occasionally I do, even as she does me on occasion. Neither of us, I would hope, is insecure about either ourselves or the other because of that though.

THIS!! You're relationship is obviously gonna go south if both of you are not....it's hard to say but GR did pretty good at it. If you are not happy and complete on your own, then well, as a couple there is not enough happiness to go around and someone will feel slighted. Your partner will be busy with LIFE at times and not able to complete you, so you'll flounder. You need to be happy with yourself before you even consider an open arrangement imo. Actually I think every single adult should work on being a complete, happy individual on their own before they are like allowed in the dating pool. I've stumbled upon to many of those "you complete me" types and they can be scary as HELL!!

jack0177057
08-26-2010, 09:02 AM
It is probably just arguing semantics but I don't think "insecure" is a word you can use that way. Its like saying someone is a "little pregnant".

You either insecure or you aren't, and if you are then there is a problem.

I disagree. I am a "little" insecure about all my "blessings" in life. All this means is that I don't take anything for granted - my GF, my job, my houses, my car, my investments,... all that is here today, can be gone tomorrow in a flash. (I've seen it happen to other people.) I say a "little" insecure, because I don't stay up all night worrying about it or obssessing over it. I merely acknowledge that nothing in this life is guaranteed to last forever and you have to be grateful for what you have and cherish all your "blessing". If you take anything in this life for granted... you will probably end up losing it.


Twice married. First lasted 12 years. Second 13 and counting.

Maybe it is just semantics again but I don't need my wife to complete me. I don't believe she needs me to complete her either. We are both complete individuals in our own right. What I know my wife does for me, and I hope I do for her, is she enhances my existence. I am better for knowing and loving her than I would be if I didn't. I don't want to take her for granted, though occasionally I do, even as she does me on occasion. Neither of us, I would hope, is insecure about either ourselves or the other because of that though.

^ Who said anything about "complete" - I said "compete" (as in competition). I want my GF to compete for me. What I mean is - sorry if it sounds harsh - women will look great when they're single and competing in the "marketplace" for the attention of men. But, once, they get married - some of them let themselves go, because they're not in competition anymore (and yes, us guys do the same - we stop caring about our looks and get fat and lazy). I want my GF and I to both act like we are still competing (in the "marketplace") to look good for each other. Even though she's mine and I don't have to worry about losing her, I will keep fit and looking my best for her. I want her to do the same - I want her to be hotter and more glamorous than anything else available to me in the "market", not fatter and uglier. (I'm not saying she is required to be hotter than available woman and that I will dump her if she goes up a dress size, but it is highly desireable that she look her very best.)


THIS!! You're relationship is obviously gonna go south if both of you are not....it's hard to say but GR did pretty good at it. If you are not happy and complete on your own, then well, as a couple there is not enough happiness to go around and someone will feel slighted. Your partner will be busy with LIFE at times and not able to complete you, so you'll flounder. You need to be happy with yourself before you even consider an open arrangement imo. Actually I think every single adult should work on being a complete, happy individual on their own before they are like allowed in the dating pool. I've stumbled upon to many of those "you complete me" types and they can be scary as HELL!!

I agree... But, again, I did not say anything about "complete" - I said "compete".

salemsexy
08-28-2010, 09:56 AM
^ Okay, here is a question for you, then --- Let's say your husband meets someone who is better than you. Let's say she's Angelina Jolie. (I'm not saying Angelina is really better than you, just using her as an example.) Any man would kill for this woman and she is only interested in your husband, but, she wants him all to herself. He has to leave you to be with her (you can only be friends and chat on the phone).

You love him and want to be with him, but you know in your heart that he would be happier with Angelina. (He would live in a huge mansion with one of the sexiest women in the planet, own a fleet of exotic cars, travel to anyplace in the world on a private jet, have vacation mansions all over the world, etc. --- and don't say these things wouldn't really make him happy.)

If you had no jealousy issues at all, and wanted him to achieve the happiest life possible, you would say - Go with her, you must go - she's beautiful, rich, famous, glamorous and charitable, with a heart of gold. I'm so happy for you. If it doesn't work out, come back to me and we'll be together again.

But, would you really do and say that?

Or... would you say - Don't be an idiot, she'll dump you after a week and you'll be coming back to me crying. You really think she wants you? Are you really that gullible? So what if she's super rich and ultra sexy? That's all material and superficial stuff. She'll never love you the way I do. Do you really want to make this monumental mistake? Don't expect me to be waiting for you, when she kicks you out on your sorry ass! I've done so much for you - when you were laid off, I paid all the bills,... when you were sick, I took care of you all day and night,... when you were sad and depressed, I held your hand and lifted your spirits,... I've given you everything I've got - all my heart and soul... and you're going to leave me now? You are the most selfish and ungrateful prick I've ever met!


Jack you really don't sound like a guy who even thinks live is real! First not every man likes Angelina maybe thats your type but no all think the same!

So to you Angelina would be better then what? a nother beautiful woman because Angelina has money along with her looks?

Sounds like you value everything but love! What you seem to go after is things not love..

To you looks and money rule over anything else!!

Sorry not love where even talking about here.

You think i would prefer brad pitt over a man i love who might only be a avg looking guy? Looks/new lust wear off so fast and they dont make you happy for long!

I would throw brad pitt out for the avg looking man i love why???

Because love is about respect friendship good morals metal support and a true commitment to that one special person!

I find your posts to sound sad like a man who has no idea of real value!

If a man i was with wanted to leave me for a nother woman i would say go then it was not ment to be because he was the wrong guy for me and if he talked like you i would be kicking him out my door and throwing his shit on the street the minute he even started talking that crap..

after all if he deep down does not value me as his number 1 best choice and the most beautiful woman in the world then hell i dont fucken value him! Means i never really had him in the first place!

So i would move on and know one day the right man will come along but im not going to dry or care about some loser who would act or treat me this way!

And i believe all girls should treat themselves the same have a loser like that? Drop him! allways more fish in the sea who will really love you!

sorry jack you just dont sound like a nice guy to me!


and you said this jack - I'm so happy for you. If it doesn't work out, come back to me and we'll be together again.


what are you nuts you want a woman to act like a doormate? Ok baby if it does not work out i will be here as your back up waitng for you?????

I bet you wish you could have that much control over a woman!!! Dream on! while you hoped we would say that we found a man better then you!!

Your trying to make a point that the woman saying go for it be happy is the secure one? sounds like you don't like a strong woman!! sounds like you want to make us feel having respect for yourselfs is a bad thing! Go jump in a lake man!

there are so many beautiful girls in this world and even on this forum who are just as hot as angie sure they may not have her money and fame but if you think that makes them less then her your just ignorant!

a job is not what makes us special! acting is just a job!

salemsexy
08-28-2010, 10:26 AM
stevis why have a realrionship and all if you want threesomes??????????

Stay god damm single!! Thats what single people do they fuck anyone they like!!

why get into a realationship with a woman at all and treat her that way??? are you going to have sex with men for her also??? because of not shut up!!! All's fair in love and war if you cant walk the walk of doing a man don't ask her to do a female for you!!!

Ladies there are still men out in this world who only want you and will not want to bring a nother woman or man into your beds but ofcourse guys like this will try and fuck your mind to brainwash you and make you feel all men are the same and crappy!

Guess what its called (Turning you out!!!) ever heard that expression before?????? it means they brainwash you to be there sexual slaves in all ways and feel it's 100% normal!

I never post crap like this but im so angry and hate men like this im so super pissed off!!


you guys want to turn someone out??????? go get your hookers!!!!!! And your doormates!!! better yet go F Yourself!

Jessie_tinydancer
08-28-2010, 12:20 PM
^ excuse me? So because I'm a sexually confident bisexual woman suddenly now I've been brainwashed by a man. FYI swinging was totally my idea. I had to convince my husband to try it out. I have great sex. When I want it. How I want it. I'm not interested in some 1950s sex life where I can't do what feels good because I'm a "lady". Especially with a person I love I expect to be able to do what I like in the bedroom.

classyguy
08-28-2010, 04:25 PM
Jessie - you're great.

If you love a bird, set it free. Usually it will come back to you.

I don't understand why monogamous folks insist that those of us who believe this must dominate, or control, or force, or "brainwash" their partner.

In truth, it is the monogamists who draw a box around their mates, demand that they repress natural human attractions to others, and are so often crushed when their SO can't meet their expectations.

Elvia
08-28-2010, 04:56 PM
^^^ Who said you should force your partners to do anything? I don't think monogamous people are forcing monogamy on each other. The fact is, most people today do prefer monogamy. They seek out monogamous relationships with other people who are into monogamy.

I'm non-monogamous myself, but I don't think the way you are portraying monogamous relationships is fair. There are pluses and minuses to both approaches. People need to decide what works for themselves.

classyguy
08-28-2010, 10:02 PM
Maybe you're right. I've tried to be respectful to all throughout this discussion - and that last post might have been too harsh. Of course, we all have to find something that works for us. monogamous, open, or whatever. In my defense, I was reacting to all of the surprising (to me) comments about how people in open relationships try to dominate, force, or "brainwash" their partners.

But wouldn't you agree that, between the two camps, people in open relationships are less interested in controlling their partners?

Jessie_tinydancer
08-28-2010, 10:56 PM
^^^ Who said you should force your partners to do anything? I don't think monogamous people are forcing monogamy on each other. The fact is, most people today do prefer monogamy. They seek out monogamous relationships with other people who are into monogamy.

I'm non-monogamous myself, but I don't think the way you are portraying monogamous relationships is fair. There are pluses and minuses to both approaches. People need to decide what works for themselves.

I agree. You do what works for you. Theres two people involved so if you both agree either way = bliss. If you are not on the same wavelength its not going to work out. No one needs to brainwash anyone. You just do what is right for you.

Kellydancer
08-29-2010, 01:59 PM
You've got to realize something - ANYONE (even married people with children) can exit a relationship at ANY TIME, if that person gets bored, feels taken for granted, feels he/she is better off alone or finds an upgrade (better-looking, healthier, in better shape, younger, sexier, wealthier, more successful, more powerful, more sexually aggressive, etc.). Insecurity is not irrational, it is the simple recognition of this essential truth.

To be honest these people scare me more than swingers/people in open relationships because they are making more of a mockery of marriage than those who sleep with others. I've seen far too many kids destroyed because their one parent left the other for another person.


INSECURITY IS GOOD - I want my GF or wife to be a little insecure, so that she:
(1) doesn't take me for granted and does nice things for me,
(2) works out and doesn't allow herself to get obese like other women her age,
(3) looks like a prize date when we go out, and
(4) dresses sexy for me and fucks my brains out, even when she's not in the mood.

In a business, insecurity is vital - you don't take your customers for granted. Customer "loyalty" is only accomplished through excellence in customer service - excellent service and communication. Businesses provide excellent customer service because of the fear and insecurity of losing their customers to competitors.

Ah, but love is not a business transaction, you say.

Romantic relationships start off with "love" which is a short-lived intoxicating - irrational and impractical feeling. But, after the "high" wears off, it becomes a practical partnership. You've got to offer each other high value and excellent customer service on a continuous basis. Otherwise, he or she justified in seeking a better "deal". Why be stuck with an inferior product? (By "product" I mean the whole package - you can be ugly and broke, and still be an awesome "product" by the love and support you provide her. On the other hand, if you are ugly, broke and a jackass to her - she's completely justified in seeking an "upgrade".)

Insecurity helps to maintain the product fresh and competitive with other products available in the market place.

I hope you do the same for her. I've known guys who expected their wives to still be hot yet they got fat. It goes both ways.


I'm not talking about a GF or wife that stalks you and calls you every 15-minutes when you're on a business trip or that wraps her arms around your leg to keep you from going to the local bar to meet your friends.

I'm talking about a GF or wife that keeps up with "the competition" by staying fit, dressing sexy, and being a seductive little sex kitten (or hungry lioness) in the bedroom.


I don't know if you've been in a marriage or long term relationship. Its too easy to get into a routine and take each other for granted. A hate when this happens, but it tends to. I want my GF or wife to "compete" for me, even if I am already hers. (And I'll compete for her, too, by wooing her like we're on a first date even after we've been together for 20 years.)

On the other hand, excessive stalkerish teary insecurity is repulsive.

Clingy people in general scare me and have dumped guys who are like this. I don't want to be with someone like that. In an irony the guy I love used to be like that but is the opposite now and I hate both extremes.

It's funny you mention marriage being like a partnership because I was reading something that I often forget. The idea of a marriage based on love is fairly new. In the past (and it's hasn't been that long) people of upper class families were often either arranged to marry someone else, or even "suggested" they marry a particular person. Many times love never happened and the man had a mistress, and many times he really loved her instead of the wife. In many cases the wife knew about her and didn't care because it meant he would have sex with her less (which meant less kids). The mistress sometimes even lived with him and had many kids. Even if the wife didn't approve of this she had no choice. Of course women didn't usually have the same options because of the whole pregnancy situation. Personally, I like the idea of a marriage where both people can sleep with others than a marriage where only the man could.

jack0177057
08-30-2010, 12:02 PM
Jack you really don't sound like a guy who even thinks live is real! First not every man likes Angelina maybe thats your type but no all think the same!

So to you Angelina would be better then what? a nother beautiful woman because Angelina has money along with her looks?

Sounds like you value everything but love! What you seem to go after is things not love..

To you looks and money rule over anything else!!

Sorry not love where even talking about here.

salemsexy, you took my hypothetical completely out of context.

First of all, I do believe in "love" - but I believe it works like this - "love" starts out as a sort of infatuation, where "nothing else matters". He could be a loveable loser, mediocre intelligence, no job, no career goals, etc. - just a half-way decent looking dude with an old guitar and a love song for you. You will look past all his issues and be madly in "love" with him. Over time, though (1, 5, 10 or 15 years) the infatuation wears off and the relationship evolves into a more intelligent and practical partnership. (I.e., he needs to get his shit together.)

Second, Angelina Jolie was just an example (chosen for obvious reasons). After being married for 5 or 10 years, someone can come along that is younger and prettier (these are just two factors, though), shares your husband's hobbies, career goals, passions, whatever... for whatever infinite possibilities - he might find himself more attracted to her and more compatible with her. My point is that every woman will want to fight to keep her husband, even if the chance exists that (for whatever reason) he might be happier with his new prospect.

This is normal - this is jealousy. In a "perfect" 0% jealousy world, it would be very different - the wife would encourage the husband to seek the greatest happiness (and vice versa)- even if that means he will pursue another romatic interest and leave her.

Again, I am not arguing in favor of this "perfect" 0% jealousy world, I'm saying just the opposite - jealousy (in modest amounts) is good.

ilbbaicnl
09-01-2010, 02:44 AM
It's really tragic how much grief and trouble people go through based on some idea of what "the" rules are for relationships and marriage. The dancer felt betrayed according to her definition of betrayal, it's just that simple. If she never TALKED about it with her husband, about what she thought it meant to be faithful in their marriage, that's very sad for the both of them. If your signinficant other breaks a "rule" that the two of you never discussed, it's a least partly your mistake.