View Full Version : You're paying for a transgendered woman to give you head! lol
sananeko
02-09-2011, 08:29 PM
It astounds me that anyone would pick on this group of people. I mean feel free to have your own opinions--they are yours to have--but why do people find it acceptable to criticize this specific group of minorities?
This is the race issue of the new millineum. In 50 years, after all of the old farts and bigots have died off, people will be HORRIFIED to hear that this group of people was once treated so cruelly. I mean christ, they're people. They're just people.
It cause they will only lightly or can't criticize themselves so they look for something else on or in a person to point out. Not many people can look deeper than skin or sex so it makes people less fearful by wording or by hate to make the world alittle safer for them. Its all taught by nurture from surroundings.
charlie61
02-09-2011, 08:31 PM
It's like this sick, backwards form of self-reassurance that they aren't trans.
It also seems misogynistic to me. It's like they think there is nothing worse than a man who wants to be a woman. I mean, who would want to be a woman?
charlie61
02-09-2011, 08:34 PM
This is one of the very few issues I'll get genuinely riled up about. When people try to shit on other people who are already underprivileged, it makes my blood boil. It's like cannibalism. It's barbaric.
People can be such fucking worms.
lopaw
02-09-2011, 08:54 PM
People can be such fucking worms.
Werd.
I am finding myself more and more misanthropic every day. Some people can be such ignorant, small-minded douchebags.
It's like a discussion going on on another board about the expression "That's so gay". Most of the straight, white males over there see nothing wrong with that expression....they claim that "it's all in good fun". They say stop being so oversensitive. They can't see it as a derogatory and demoralizing putdown of an entire class of people! Where's the empathy in our instant gratification & ADD-driven society? How do they think expressions like "That's so Mexican!" or "That's so crippled!" as putdowns would go over? Jeezus open your fucking ears and listen to what you're saying!! But Oh no.....I guess we gays should just put on our fake smile and quietly go along with blatant disrespect. Fuck them all.
Sorry for the rant / threadjack.
charlie61
02-09-2011, 08:58 PM
Werd.
I am finding myself more and more misanthropic every day. Some people can be such ignorant, small-minded douchebags.
It's like a discussion going on on another board about the expression "That's so gay". Most of the straight, white males over there see nothing wrong with that expression....they claim that "it's all in good fun". They say stop being so oversensitive. They can't see it as a derogatory and demoralizing putdown of an entire class of people! Where's the empathy in our instant gratification & ADD-driven society? How do they think expressions like "That's so Mexican!" or "That's so crippled!" as putdowns would go over? Jeezus open your fucking ears and listen to what you're saying!! But Oh no.....I guess we gays should just put on our fake smile and quietly go along with blatant disrespect. Fuck them all.
Sorry for the rant / threadjack.
Most people can't see how hatred is perpetuated through word choice. Words like "tranny" carry latent / overt hatred that becomes acceptable and pervasive because the word itself seems so harmless. People brainwash themselves.
Gay (word) = Negative connotation
reinforces
Gay (person) = Negative
charlie61
02-09-2011, 09:10 PM
Usually I try to find middle grounds in threads; I try to hear both sides and be a good li'l moderator. I generally try not to suppress others' opinions by expressing my own liberal (or, one could say, pro-human) viewpoints.
But I won't be sad if I just killed this thread by doing so.
charlottenh
02-09-2011, 09:53 PM
I mean, who would want to be a woman?
Oh me! Me! Pick me! :P
I don't see why it's such a huge issue with people. It's like my transition is somehow offensive to them, and makes them question themselves which isn't something people are comfortable doing.
I've been fortunate in some way in that I've experienced "living as a male" (I put it in quotes because I don't think it was ever truly the male experience) and now I live as female. Seeing things that go on from behind the scenes as male has made me incredibly distrustful of men in general.
I never wanted to be trans, and if I could have been happy living as a man (I tried for over 2 decades and almost took my life more times that I could count) I would have in a heartbeat. This isn't the sort of path that comes without great risk. It's basically throwing everything you have in your life up in the air, and hoping that it will not be shattered to pieces when it all comes down. Luckily for me, my family and friends were all supportive. I don't know what my life would be like if they weren't there for me. This simply isn't a choice. The discomfort experienced as a result of living as the wrong gender is unbearable, and gets worse as time goes on.
It also annoys me when people weigh my situation against their minor discomfort. I frankly don't care at this point if I make you uncomfortable, especially when the same people go out of their way to be as openly ignorant as if it's a badge of honor.
The next time someone gets a little upset over my situation, I'll just tell them "Oh, I'm sorry that I made you uncomfortable for a moment and made you think, but after over 20 years of being miserable, I'm just going to keep on being happy."
Arialandre
02-10-2011, 01:18 AM
^ yaaaaaaay!!!!
Dirty Ernie
02-10-2011, 02:56 AM
It's like this sick, backwards form of self-reassurance that they aren't trans.
It also seems misogynistic to me. It's like they think there is nothing worse than a man who wants to be a woman. I mean, who would want to be a woman?
I think it's more to do with homophobia. The fear that a man could be attracted to someone who used to be a man, despite knowing her only as a woman, would make some(most?) men question their orientation. Top it off with him pursuing her as a potential sex partner and the revelation of her former identity and the odds of an irrational reaction from the man are high. There was such a tragic case here in the Bay Area involving high school kids and the murder of a transgendered student.
I love vagina - natural-born vagina- I like to "eat" vagina, and the idea of mistakenly eating a... surgically-engineered vagina from penis material... is most unpleasant to me. Does that make me a homophobe? There may be others to whom that appeals to very much - more power to them.
See, this here is a prime example.
What the hell is penis material (it does make me chuckle)?
Do you mean skin, blood vessels and nerves? As opposed to vagina material, which is what? Sunshine, rainbows and cotton candy?
charlottenh
02-10-2011, 02:59 AM
As opposed to vagina material, which is what? Sunshine, rainbows and cotton candy?
I just spit out my drink! HAHAHA!
sananeko
02-10-2011, 09:59 AM
Small thread jack..
charlottenh Your beautiful..
jack0177057
02-10-2011, 02:15 PM
I think it's more to do with homophobia. The fear that a man could be attracted to someone who used to be a man, despite knowing her only as a woman, would make some(most?) men question their orientation.
The problem with some of you liberals is that you are as radical as the extreme right. There is no moderate position with you. I respect trans-women, but I want to date a natural-born female. That makes me a homophobe? That's bullshit.
I once dated a woman who had the most beautiful blue eyes, only it turned out they were contacts. That was a big turnoff.
I love fake breasts in the SC, but in a romantic relationship - I prefer natural breasts.
I'm not even a fan of make-up - I prefer natural beauty.
See, this here is a prime example.
What the hell is penis material (it does make me chuckle)?
Do you mean skin, blood vessels and nerves? As opposed to vagina material, which is what? Sunshine, rainbows and cotton candy?
Someone mentioned that a trans-woman's vagina is constructed through a penis inversion - or something like that - go back a few pages.
You make it sound like there is no difference between sucking dick and eating pussy (both are skin, blood vessels and nerves),... maybe to you... not that there is anything wrong with that.
Absolutely, good pussy tastes like sunshine, rainbows and cotton candy.
Why is it necessary to self-label (i.e., I'm straight, but I support GLBT)? I don't know, but people do it all the time, e.g., - I'm a Republican, but I side with the Democrats on this issue; I'm white, but I voted for a black candidate; I live in Texas, but I grew up in New York, etc., etc.,... We each have an identity and a right to be proud and to maintain that identity. I want to support GLBT people, but I don't want to sacrifice my own identity as a heterosexual male in the process - how is that wrong? That's like telling black people they should be proud to be black, but calling a proud white person a Nazi. There is a difference between being proud and being a bigot - they are not always the same.
Also, it could be that you want to disclose that, despite your support, you are not the same as those you are supporting. I may support civil rights for blacks, but I will never be black and will never truly understand what it is to be black. Similarly, I can support GBLT, but I will never be GBLT and will never fully grasp what it means to be GBLT and to deal with all the issues they deal with. So, what's wrong with making this disclosure up front?
I don't know what it is like to be a trans-woman and I will never know, despite my support. (Though, there is one and only one situation where I would consider changing my gender - if I was sent to prison for the rest of my life. In that case, I'd want to be locked up in a women's cell and live the rest of my life as a lesbian.)
lemiwinks31
02-10-2011, 02:27 PM
(Though, there is one and only one situation where I would consider changing my gender - if I was sent to prison for the rest of my life. In that case, I'd want to be locked up in a women's cell and live the rest of my life as a lesbian.)
but what if they were all transgendered...like you?
would you consider yourself A gay man? A lesbian? A hetero woman? Austrian?
charlie61
02-10-2011, 02:31 PM
The problem with some of you liberals is that you are as radical as the extreme right. There is no moderate position with you. I respect trans-women, but I want to date a natural-born female. That makes me a homophobe? That's bullshit.
Jack, the views we are expressing are socially liberal, not fiscally. I don't see how tolerance for different people, people who aren't harming anyone, can ever be too "extreme".
And there is nothing wrong with your preference. I merely suggest that you question what it means to be a natural-born female. Would you be interested in a natural-born female who chooses to dress like a man, and walks through life as a man? Things are much more complicated than "were you born with a vagina?" you see.
jack0177057
02-10-2011, 04:56 PM
Well, we both agree that its complicated and that there is nothing wrong with my personal preference.
I'll be agreeable and follow your suggestion to question what it means to be a natural-born female. I can think of some bad things to say, but I'll try to be nice.
Here is a question you could ask to make your point: Suppose a woman is born with a defective vagina, which is definitely not a penis, but not a "normal" vagina. She has corrective surgery to make it look, feel and function like a perfectly normal vagina. She is the most beautiful woman you ever meet. Will you refuse to go out with her because her vagina was defective at birth?
If I answer "yes, I'd refuse to date her" - this would seem most unreasonable and cruel.
But, if I answer "no, that wouldn't stop me from dating her" - then you would follow up with this question: - Well what is the difference between that and a "defective vagina", which is shaped like a penis? Isn't it the same thing - just a "birth defect" corrected by a medical procedure, which should not be a significant factor mate selection?
Dirty Ernie
02-11-2011, 01:04 AM
The problem with some of you liberals is that you are as radical as the extreme right. There is no moderate position with you. I respect trans-women, but I want to date a natural-born female. That makes me a homophobe? That's bullshit.
Actually Jack I never called you a homophobe nor did I intend to imply such a thing. I was putting forth an alternative basis to Charlie's posit that it was misogyny driving the "typical" male response to this issue.
I also meant homophobia in medical definition terms. And in that context, that homophobia is what creates the line which defines one's heterosexuality, although where this line falls varies for every individual.
And like I said, the phrase "penis material" makes me chuckle, because, not only are you averse to all thing penile (your own excepted of course) and anything even penis-shaped (including a woman's finger when in proximity to your ass), once you make penis a modifier to material, you now apparently assign that aversion to the very cells that happen to be used to create that penis. At this I lol.
charlie61
02-11-2011, 07:08 AM
^ Agreed. Penis material was indeed humorous.
jack0177057
02-11-2011, 09:35 AM
I also meant homophobia in medical definition terms. And in that context, that homophobia is what creates the line which defines one's heterosexuality, although where this line falls varies for every individual.
According to Merriam Webster:
Definition of HOMOPHOBIA
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
I identify myself as a heterosexual and am proud of that identity and I try to be the best heterosexual person can I be (for example, I study and try to understand female psychology & sexuality so as to maximize compatibility and mutuality of pleasure),... but I don't fear, am averse to, or discriminate against homosexuality or homosexuals. More power to them.
The liberal argument: But Jack,... you refuse to try anything "gay" like shove a 8in dildo or strap-on up your ass. Thus, you have an irrational aversion to homosexuality (with regards to yourself) and you fear it like a plague. Are you afraid you'll like it (strap-on sex) and become contaminated with the "disease" of homosexuality?
Jack's response: I'll admit I don't want to try anything that will lead down a different path than that of a heterosexual man - which is how I indentify myself and how I relate to the world. But, it is not because I am averse to homosexuality or consider it a "disease". This liberal notion that you have to be willing to try everything (and willing to shatter all labels and identity constructs) to prove you are a tolerant human being, is itself a tyranny (and itself contradictory). Labels do serve a function. Most psychologists will tell you that we can only process information by labeling, categorizing and classifying things. I do have an identity and I am not willing to shatter it everytime I have a random curiosity about something. I will only go through an identity shift/crisis if something is seriously wrong with my present identity.
I love being heterosexual. If I ever get bored of pussy, maybe I will reconsider my heterosexual identity. But, for now, I can't get enough pussy (from my GF). My focus is on getting more of it, and reciprocating the pleasure - by becoming the best heterosexual lover I can be. How would shoving an 8in dildo or strap-on up my ass promote this objective? It would not give my GF any pleasure at all, and - for the sake of argument, let's say I did enjoy it - it would distract me from pleasuring her.
jack0177057
02-11-2011, 09:43 AM
^ Agreed. Penis material was indeed humorous.
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
princessjas
02-11-2011, 10:21 AM
First off, Charlotte, I think you are beautiful.
Jack - How do you know Charlotte isn't a "natural born female" or in other words genetically female? I'm sure she'd know this, but don't know if she would have mentioned it. Being a lawyer and all, I'm assuming you are intelligent enough to realize that all fetuses start out female, then males have a hormone wash that causes the changes in genetalia. Unfortuately there were some drugs given a while back that sometimes caused this hormone wash in genetically female infants.....therefore changing them into males physically (and well I'd assume eliminating a lot of the corpus callosum too).
Also, the next time you are going down on your girlfriend, just remember, that clit you are licking was only one dose of hormones from being a dick. They are made from the same material, originate from the same daughter stem cells to use layman's terms.
I just don't get why it matters what someone started out in life as. I, and many others on this board, started out as ugly ducklings and everyone seems to have moved past that, so why is this different? If someone has very obvious male characteristics but is living as a female, I get why that would be a problem. It's not about them being transgendered at that point, but about what you are attracted too....but if someone is entirely female, both mentally and physically, then I don't get the problem, and you know I'm not saying this as a hypothetical like a straight woman might.
jack0177057
02-11-2011, 12:05 PM
^ I've got an infinite number of personal preferences and this is just one of them... I'm not attracted to some girls because they are too tall, too short, too overweight, too skinny, breasts too small, breasts too big, too depressed, too giddy, too loud, too timid, too feminist, too masculine, I don't like their voice, or accent, or their long nails, their sarcasm, their cursing, etc... I don't know where all these personal preferences or turn offs come from. If I prefer girls of a certain skin pigmentation (e.g., a tan normally associated with Latin women) - you could lecture me about skin pigmentation and how irrational it is to base an important decision (i.e., who to mate with) on such a factor. You can pick apart any of these preferences.
What if I had a an affinity or fetish for trans-women and I exclusively dated trans-women. Would any of you ladies call me a straight-phobe or question my preference? Some men prefer trans-women, would you cross examine them with these same questions?
princessjas
02-11-2011, 12:11 PM
^^If you had an irrational reaction to straight women, yeah, I'd call you out on it. I didn't call you homophobe however, I just ask you a question and gave you some information. I even mentioned that with some transgendered people there may be an attraction issue due to a more masculine appearance.
jack0177057
02-11-2011, 12:45 PM
^ Yeah, you didn't call me a homophobe, other people implied it, though.
What do you all think about this:
Come fly with us! P.C. Air launches as the world's first 'ladyboy' airline
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355555/PC-Air-launches-worlds-ladyboy-Thai-airline.html
Although the President of the airline company likes trans-women, he apparently, dislikes men:
"For male flight attendants, if I don't want to hire them, it's because of their attitude or their characters, like the way they walk and smile."
charlottenh
02-13-2011, 01:57 PM
^ Yeah, you didn't call me a homophobe, other people implied it, though.
What do you all think about this:
Come fly with us! P.C. Air launches as the world's first 'ladyboy' airline
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355555/PC-Air-launches-worlds-ladyboy-Thai-airline.html
Although the President of the airline company likes trans-women, he apparently, dislikes men:
"For male flight attendants, if I don't want to hire them, it's because of their attitude or their characters, like the way they walk and smile."
Thailand has a completely different culture when it comes to transsexuals and defines them as a third gender which I find rather insulting, but an ID card doesn't make them any less deserved of the female gender title. The article didn't infer that he disliked men, but a particular presentation or attitude, much in the same way a business or a sales position requires the same.
Rereading the article shows a potential misuse of terminology. Transvestites are crossdressers that have no desire to live as the opposite sex, but dress as such on occasion.
Transsexuals experience extreme discomfort with their birth gender and as stated in another post recent studies have shown that they have intersexed brain development. They take hormones and have procedures done to live as their desired gender. That would be me.
Crossdressing is really an entirely different matter, and whenever I've attended a support group, it becomes VERY clear at just how different the two are. I don't go anymore because of this. If anyone wants me to elaborate, I'd be happy to.
charlie61
02-13-2011, 05:27 PM
^ A few months ago, a heterosexual male 'crossdresser' came and talked to my class. It was really fascinating. He identifies as male, is attracted only to females, but enjoys dressing as a woman the majority of the time. Really intriguing.
People come in alllll sorts of flavors.
charlottenh
02-13-2011, 05:41 PM
^ A few months ago, a heterosexual male 'crossdresser' came and talked to my class. It was really fascinating. He identifies as male, is attracted only to females, but enjoys dressing as a woman the majority of the time. Really intriguing.
People come in alllll sorts of flavors.
Oh I agree and am supportive of whatever people do that makes them happy, but I felt as though they were taking two separate groups of people with different issues (this is through my experience only and in no way am I claiming it as universal) and putting them in the same room.
The crossdressers I met in the two support groups I attended for a length of time dominated the discussion and were more sex and clothing focused (talking about stockings and heels) while the transsexuals talked about life issues like dealing with family and friends, and blending in general.
The one unifying factor is that people the public doesn't understand the difference between the tow when you're out and about, and both can be disruptive to one's marriage, friendships etc.
charlie61
02-13-2011, 05:43 PM
^ I was just adding my own comment to your crossdressing comment. I was not in any way clarifying what you said or critiquing it. Just throwing some extra text out there that adds peripherally to the thread. :)
charlottenh
02-13-2011, 05:59 PM
^ I was just adding my own comment to your crossdressing comment. I was not in any way clarifying what you said or critiquing it. Just throwing some extra text out there that adds peripherally to the thread. :)
Oh I totally understand, and it is certainly appreciated :)
Almost Jaded
02-16-2011, 10:53 PM
HOW HAVE I MISSED THIS THREAD!?!?!?!?!
Seriously, this has been the best read in weeks, touching on deep emotions, serious issues, and SERIOUS LOLZ. I actually had tears running down my face from laughing so hard a couple of times. MM is looking at me weird, lol.
I think my distinction on whether or not you should disclose would be if you were pre-op or post op. Because while a pre-op(sorry dont know the preferred term) considers herself a woman, if she still has a penis, her customer probably doesnt.
But in reality, its not a huge deal because you arent doing anything in a strip club other than getting a lap dance...............right?....so, no harm no foul.........
And if you are doing something that you shouldnt be doing, its a risk you take having sexual relations with strangers in any setting......
I think i just changed my mind during this post.
It started with that. HILARIOUS in a serious way.
Then the penis material stuff, and sunshine and rainbows and cotton candy. OMG, the comedic breaks in this thread are PRICELESS.
I singled out lemiwinks31's post for a reason though.
I really, truly, get where Jack is coming from. Sometimes I think I'm the only person here that gets him and Hopper for what they really mean. I don't always agree with either of them, but I get them. Largely because I have been through periods in my life where the ideas and mindsets they've expressed were my own for a time. Like so many things in my life, I outgrew them, or they changed for various reasons.
On this one, I'm half and half, and Lemi's post, at first humorous, became painfully true - though perhaps in reverse.
If I got a lapdance from a TS gal and found out later, I'd be more surprised than anything, lol. I can usually "spot them" as well. Not good/bad, I can just "tell" most of the time. But since I never do extras, it wouldn't bother me at all, something to ponder or laugh abuot more than anything.
Sex... Well... Having to think about that one. I totally get where Jack and some others be they bigots or as open minded as can be, are coming from - I'd feel lied to and kinda upset. Just being realistic - I think I'd be bothered by it finding out after the fact.
On the other hand, I get the reverse mindset as well. If you never identified as a man and hated your body, GRS is a wonderful thing, and really - it's all skin and tissue, so who cares? You're in the right body now, yay!
Struggling with this one now. I really am. :confused:
cherryblossomsinspring
02-23-2011, 08:08 AM
Logic seems to appeal to you. So, here's the flipside of that...
Most dancers are also aware of the potential for dangerous consequences to occur to said trans-dancer, as you confirmed in your earlier post. Now, in knowing that, for the few girls that are aware of someone's 'gender status,' do you really think they want to be potentially part of a murder case or something along those lines? Do you really think we'd want to put the dancer in that position of danger? Not all of us are complete sadists. In the cases of the ones that I've danced with or known about, I've said jack shit :-X Dancers are competitive, but there are lines you know.
Exactly! When I was go-go dancing (in "regular" nightclubs), I got to see and meet a lot more. I love me some open-minded people and alt. culture.
I agree with this as well. Why go spilling the beans. But if you know that men want a woman and not someone that just looks like one, why would you market yourself as one. I find this to be truly deceptive and they are putting themselves in harms way fooling people. I find this to be a mental rape. I don't think it's fair to run around pretending to be something you aren't. So if this guy get's his ass kicked for lying to someone about his/her gender then he/she got it coming. If you're going to work as a post or pre op then I feel the club should cater to post and pre of transsexuals. It shouldn't be a club that says GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS.
Yes women have added breasts removed breast etc but they are women and will always be women. They are adding to what they already have.
But I can never say what having an orgasm with a penis feels like, I can't say what morning stiffness feels like, how to tuck a penis, what it feels like stroking it, thinking about what getting a girl pregnant would be like. Putting my penis in someone's anal wall. --------I have never in my life known what this feels like--
Standing up to urinate while other men stand beside me? can't say that i've done this either. Men have their experiences, women have theirs. Tgirls get the benefit of having both.
I have some porn in my collection and some of these t-girls look like women, the only way I couldn't tell was because the had a super small penis that apparently no longer worked due to the hormone injections.
I also have gone to clubs that after 2am is basically tgirl extravaganza. I can't even tell until one of them speaks. I usually get ooh nice dress, I respond thank you and then they feel the need to tell me they were born with a penis, as if it's something to say waiting in a line to get into a club. They obviously don't tell this to men , but they get beat the hell up. Now you probably want to run and save this girl from a beat down right? But that's not a girl. It's a guy and when do you ever get in the middle of a fight between two guys?
I see it on sites from gay men. There will be some man with fake pictures of a girl wanting the guy to cam up and play with his part. After he gets off this guy tell him ohh by the way ... I'm a guy so you're gay like me now. You can only imagine how pissed off the guy is and now you've forced someone to question their own sexuality. This same thing happens after a guy gets with a T girl and feels that shame and embarrassment of realizing he just had sex with a dude. I find that so cruel.
You fall for who you fall for, but if a guy is getting laid , he's not thinking about love at all and to be fooled in this matter creates all kinds of new problems.
I feel the only woman/man that I can see having a difficult time with his/her identity is a hermaphrodite. Some have both parts. What do you do when you need feminine products but you have a penis too? I'm very curious about these individuals because I find them fascinating!!
There are also the parents that snipped something a bit too early in the child's physical development. Later on the child ends up leaning towards the other sex and feels something is missing. hmmm Now this is where I feel someone made a mistake and corrections are warranted. I wouldn't call this person a tgirl but whatever they wanted to be. If they were born with both they truly do have the choice.
My point is be whoever you want to be regardless, but trying to pass for a woman and hiding that you aren't is just wrong. Some guys know and some guys don't and why would you want someone to go off on you like this infront of other people?
Ohh and it's not the hands that tell me , it's the teeth. I don't know what it is about men and their teeth but that's how I can tell. So when that tgirl turned around and said nice dress, the teeth were just too huge and noticeable as if i was looking at a guy wearing lipstick and smiling.
Think about a flamboyant gay male. Flipping his wrists wildly, holding out his waste, leaving his mouth open for longer than necessary as if he wants to suck something. Trust me, I've hung out with the most in your face gay guys for many of years and they want you to know they are gay. It's not even something you have to ask.
I used to live in West Hollywood in my early youth and I used to see these dudes turning "tricks" like it was party time. I used to see this one guy that looked absolutely nasty and people picked him up like he was Diana Ross! OMG I used to watch the way he strutted. He was a cat walk diva! But he wasn't fooling anyone into think he was a girl. But that's my point, you know what you're getting. There isn't a surprise I have a c***!! heheh. Like I said it's like you pulled the biggest joke on a man and it had to do with what he finds attractive? Not cool,but people will have to learn that the hard way.
But that's just my 2 cents.
charlottenh
02-23-2011, 02:43 PM
I agree with this as well. Why go spilling the beans. But if you know that men want a woman and not someone that just looks like one, why would you market yourself as one. I find this to be truly deceptive and they are putting themselves in harms way fooling people. I find this to be a mental rape. I don't think it's fair to run around pretending to be something you aren't. So if this guy get's his ass kicked for lying to someone about his/her gender then he/she got it coming. If you're going to work as a post or pre op then I feel the club should cater to post and pre of transsexuals. It shouldn't be a club that says GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS.
Yes women have added breasts removed breast etc but they are women and will always be women. They are adding to what they already have.
But I can never say what having an orgasm with a penis feels like, I can't say what morning stiffness feels like, how to tuck a penis, what it feels like stroking it, thinking about what getting a girl pregnant would be like. Putting my penis in someone's anal wall. --------I have never in my life known what this feels like--
Standing up to urinate while other men stand beside me? can't say that i've done this either. Men have their experiences, women have theirs. Tgirls get the benefit of having both.
I have some porn in my collection and some of these t-girls look like women, the only way I couldn't tell was because the had a super small penis that apparently no longer worked due to the hormone injections.
I also have gone to clubs that after 2am is basically tgirl extravaganza. I can't even tell until one of them speaks. I usually get ooh nice dress, I respond thank you and then they feel the need to tell me they were born with a penis, as if it's something to say waiting in a line to get into a club. They obviously don't tell this to men , but they get beat the hell up. Now you probably want to run and save this girl from a beat down right? But that's not a girl. It's a guy and when do you ever get in the middle of a fight between two guys?
I see it on sites from gay men. There will be some man with fake pictures of a girl wanting the guy to cam up and play with his part. After he gets off this guy tell him ohh by the way ... I'm a guy so you're gay like me now. You can only imagine how pissed off the guy is and now you've forced someone to question their own sexuality. This same thing happens after a guy gets with a T girl and feels that shame and embarrassment of realizing he just had sex with a dude. I find that so cruel.
You fall for who you fall for, but if a guy is getting laid , he's not thinking about love at all and to be fooled in this matter creates all kinds of new problems.
I feel the only woman/man that I can see having a difficult time with his/her identity is a hermaphrodite. Some have both parts. What do you do when you need feminine products but you have a penis too? I'm very curious about these individuals because I find them fascinating!!
There are also the parents that snipped something a bit too early in the child's physical development. Later on the child ends up leaning towards the other sex and feels something is missing. hmmm Now this is where I feel someone made a mistake and corrections are warranted. I wouldn't call this person a tgirl but whatever they wanted to be. If they were born with both they truly do have the choice.
My point is be whoever you want to be regardless, but trying to pass for a woman and hiding that you aren't is just wrong. Some guys know and some guys don't and why would you want someone to go off on you like this infront of other people?
Ohh and it's not the hands that tell me , it's the teeth. I don't know what it is about men and their teeth but that's how I can tell. So when that tgirl turned around and said nice dress, the teeth were just too huge and noticeable as if i was looking at a guy wearing lipstick and smiling.
Think about a flamboyant gay male. Flipping his wrists wildly, holding out his waste, leaving his mouth open for longer than necessary as if he wants to suck something. Trust me, I've hung out with the most in your face gay guys for many of years and they want you to know they are gay. It's not even something you have to ask.
I used to live in West Hollywood in my early youth and I used to see these dudes turning "tricks" like it was party time. I used to see this one guy that looked absolutely nasty and people picked him up like he was Diana Ross! OMG I used to watch the way he strutted. He was a cat walk diva! But he wasn't fooling anyone into think he was a girl. But that's my point, you know what you're getting. There isn't a surprise I have a c***!! heheh. Like I said it's like you pulled the biggest joke on a man and it had to do with what he finds attractive? Not cool,but people will have to learn that the hard way.
But that's just my 2 cents.
There is so much completely and utterly wrong with this post that I'll have to get back to it later when I have more time, but ew. It's mindblowingly ignorant and incredibly offensive.
charlie61
02-23-2011, 03:17 PM
^ I think she makes a legitimate general observation though. Is it deceptive, as a trans woman, to not divulge your original sex to your partners? It's an interesting question.
charlottenh
02-23-2011, 03:29 PM
^ I think she makes a legitimate general observation though. Is it deceptive, as a trans woman, to not divulge your original sex to your partners? It's an interesting question.
To partners I agree that such information should be divulged before sexual contact. I'm still rather torn though, because it IS an intersexed issue that needs to be corrected medically. One could argue that it's irrelevant.
That's about the only thing I have no problem with in that post. To make the assumption that MtF transsexuals are somehow male however, and to continually devalue one's identity in the face of overwhelming scientific research that states the opposite is offensive. This is the first post that really bothered me on an internet forum in a long time. It's this type of viewpoint that has made me stop being such an activist, because frankly people have such a strong ideological viewpoint on a subject that they know NOTHING about. It's infuriating to say the least.
I've never experienced "life as a male." How could I when my brain is female?
There is also so much variation when it comes to intersexed development that it's impossible to rely on physical appearance or DNA to determine someone's gender. For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETIxoQGVjos
CFMNH44
03-10-2011, 09:04 PM
Ignorance is bliss I guess.
A blow job is a blow job... ;)
Almost Jaded
03-11-2011, 04:39 AM
A blow job is a blow job...
This is so unbelievably not true as to boggle the mind, lol.
charlie61
03-11-2011, 04:57 AM
^ But for him, maybe it is true.
Almost Jaded
03-11-2011, 05:21 AM
Well, I hope that for his sake it isn't, and that if it is, it doesn't extend into other areas, lol. If sex was sex, period - well... Life would be a lot less interesting, that's for sure. I understand that your position on that is different Charlie, I don't mean to be insensitive.
jack0177057
03-11-2011, 09:32 AM
To make the assumption that MtF transsexuals are somehow male however, and to continually devalue one's identity in the face of overwhelming scientific research that states the opposite is offensive.
I respect your viewpoint and understand that you consider yourself to ALWAYS have been female, but other people have a different viewpoint, and that viewpoint will not change for a LONG time. The fact that you consider yourself a trans-woman reveals that, at some level, you yourself understand that there is a distinction between yourself and "normal" women.
Most people will consider these to be the critical facts: (1) whether you were born with a penis, (2) the gender shown on your birth certificate, and (3) whether you have the reproductive organs to make a baby (of course, some women have defective reproductive organs and cannot give birth, but the organs are still there).
The brain identification is less significant. We all want to change something about our physical body & appearance - and we all identify ourselves as something different than our physical reality. I want to be taller and super hung - but, I cannot tell people - "Know what, I'm really 6.5 feet tall with an 9 inch monster dick, because that's how I've always identified myself in my brain." An obese "XXL" woman cannot say - "Actually, I'm a size 2, because that's what I've always wanted to be."
I think the trans-gender debate should be about acceptance and tolerance, rather then about whether any real distinction exists between a "real" woman and a trans-woman. This latter argument is too divisive, and I don't think "mainstream" people are going to agree with your viewpoint for a VERY LONG time. On the other hand, EVERYONE should agree with acceptance and tolerance.
Again, if you were a dancer at the clubs I frequent, and if you were honest about being a trans-woman, I wouldn't have any objection at all. If you were the hottest girl in the club (post-op) and there was nothing at all masculine about you, I might even get curious and try a dance without any extras. On the other hand, if I bought a dance and later found out you were a trans-woman - that would greatly upset me.
unbeleavable
03-11-2011, 10:25 AM
If you pay for sex...you get what you get, its not regulated by the FDA..lol
I think we are back to perception. A trans person see themselves as the opposite sex & tries to change their outer appearance & lifestyle to what they perceive to be, male or female. The fact may be that they were born a different sex than what you perceive & that is where the problem lies with some people.
cherryblossomsinspring
03-11-2011, 11:28 AM
I watched that video but this doesn't actually apply to you charolette. You said it's your brain that's female, so you did have all the physical aspects of being male. I have family that fits your video to a "T". Testes inside , vagina outside. Yes These people truly do have both parts, similar to that of a hermaphrodite.
Also many crossdressers don't like to be looked down on by transsexuals just because they didn't spend over $20,000 on surgeries. They find transsexuals try to make this distinction that they are somehow below them. Yes I understand in your group sessions that they talked about clothing and shoes, but don't most women do that anyways? Some just accepted the fact that this is the body they came in and they will still enjoy being who they want to be behind closed doors. There is nothing wrong with that either.
I also feel it's one thing to want to be something based on feelings and it's another to want others to play along. When it comes to the sex industry, "sex" will always be of concern.
We also have to look at how much money can be made on the person that doesn't like their body. Transsexauls are the new target for surgeons trying to play god and making an incredible income off doing so. I mean seriously has anyone dated a modest surgeon? For anyone else that had feelings that they should have been born something else like for example a unicorn. They would throw some pills at him and sit him in a some therapy or maybe even a straight jacket. If a surgery came out that people could now become unicorns, then yes it would eventually be accepted. Remember not too long ago feeling that you were in the wrong body labeled you as mentally ill under DSM IV. Also to be approved for surgery now you have to have shown these feelings for only 2years? That's a short time to say I want to be a woman now. So people can now capitalize off of someone's "feelings".
In the sex field I guess many are now trying to flip things and do the same. For the guy's "feelings" may create you "feeling" something not so pleasant if he were to find out. I say be honest. The reality is that most clubs don't care. They are there to make money. They hire based on what will make them the most money. Many trans-girls do extras without batting an eyelash where many woman would turn down request after request.
Why do you think the thread started with an "lol" after it. It's because many men are not aware of this and they feel like wow this girl was really into it. She seemed like she wanted it more than the cash. Now when it comes to light he now knows why and he feels like a fool.
It brings up so much hurt, confusion, anger , resentment, questions about his own sexuality, that most men don't want to have to feel. Then he has to think about the whole club knowing this and how many have probably laughed behind his back. That snarky remark he gave that one stripper and why she's been giving him a smirk every time he grabs this tgirl to go to the vip room with him. Originally laughing at her for turning him down. After all of that posturing, what did he get? A BIG LOL FROM ANYONE THERE.
WHAT GUY WOULD REALLY WANT TO FEEL LIKE A FOOL IN FRONT OF BEAUTIFUL WOMEN AND MEN?
Now for those that don't care, it's all in good fun and they can enjoy themselves at any place. Sex be it male or female is of no concern.
charlottenh
03-11-2011, 01:15 PM
I watched that video but this doesn't actually apply to you charolette. You said it's your brain that's female, so you did have all the physical aspects of being male. I have family that fits your video to a "T". Testes inside , vagina outside. Yes These people truly do have both parts, similar to that of a hermaphrodite.
Also many crossdressers don't like to be looked down on by transsexuals just because they didn't spend over $20,000 on surgeries. They find transsexuals try to make this distinction that they are somehow below them. Yes I understand in your group sessions that they talked about clothing and shoes, but don't most women do that anyways? Some just accepted the fact that this is the body they came in and they will still enjoy being who they want to be behind closed doors. There is nothing wrong with that either.
I also feel it's one thing to want to be something based on feelings and it's another to want others to play along. When it comes to the sex industry, "sex" will always be of concern.
We also have to look at how much money can be made on the person that doesn't like their body. Transsexauls are the new target for surgeons trying to play god and making an incredible income off doing so. I mean seriously has anyone dated a modest surgeon? For anyone else that had feelings that they should have been born something else like for example a unicorn. They would throw some pills at him and sit him in a some therapy or maybe even a straight jacket. If a surgery came out that people could now become unicorns, then yes it would eventually be accepted. Remember not too long ago feeling that you were in the wrong body labeled you as mentally ill under DSM IV. Also to be approved for surgery now you have to have shown these feelings for only 2years? That's a short time to say I want to be a woman now. So people can now capitalize off of someone's "feelings".
In the sex field I guess many are now trying to flip things and do the same. For the guy's "feelings" may create you "feeling" something not so pleasant if he were to find out. I say be honest. The reality is that most clubs don't care. They are there to make money. They hire based on what will make them the most money. Many trans-girls do extras without batting an eyelash where many woman would turn down request after request.
Why do you think the thread started with an "lol" after it. It's because many men are not aware of this and they feel like wow this girl was really into it. She seemed like she wanted it more than the cash. Now when it comes to light he now knows why and he feels like a fool.
It brings up so much hurt, confusion, anger , resentment, questions about his own sexuality, that most men don't want to have to feel. Then he has to think about the whole club knowing this and how many have probably laughed behind his back. That snarky remark he gave that one stripper and why she's been giving him a smirk every time he grabs this tgirl to go to the vip room with him. Originally laughing at her for turning him down. After all of that posturing, what did he get? A BIG LOL FROM ANYONE THERE.
WHAT GUY WOULD REALLY WANT TO FEEL LIKE A FOOL IN FRONT OF BEAUTIFUL WOMEN AND MEN?
Now for those that don't care, it's all in good fun and they can enjoy themselves at any place. Sex be it male or female is of no concern.
I linked the video to show just one variation of intersexed development. The severity of the mismatch frankly doesn't matter if the person is compelled to fix the issue. Being in the wrong body is absolute agony frankly.
Crossdressers don't just accept the way they are born because it is a completely different animal than transsexuality. The 2 may be under the same generalized umbrella, but that's really all they have in common. Crossdressers identify as male, and live as such 90% of the time, generally have no desire to for hormone therapy, and don't suffer from gender dysphoria. This is not the case for transsexuals, who have the highest suicide rate among any minority group if it's left untreated. Many crossdressers are looked down upon by transsexuals because their crossdressing tends to be sexually driven, as opposed to a biological cause. That stigma is then applied to the transsexual population by the general populous. It's severely problematic, especially politically or medically.
Surgeons do not target anyone. They offer a service that can change the quality of one's life dramatically. I had facial surgery myself, and prior to having it, I had a much harder time living as a woman. Now I can go about my day with no issues, so much so that I almost exclusively date gay women. Certainly people purse cosmetic surgery for all sorts of reasons including vanity, but it's pretty obvious to a TS when surgery is needed when your current appearance causes issues day to day.
Comparing someone wanting to be a unicorn to transsexualism is a HUGE mistake. One is biological in nature with substantial evidence (especially considering how under funded studies are) that shows it to be true in brain structure even prior to hormone therapy, and the other is fantasy. Nobody has ever been born a unicorn, yet intersexed conditions are actually fairly common, and are actually increasing in frequency. It's present as early as age 2 which is when children start understanding gender.
By labeling them simply as feelings you are miscatagorizing what dysphoria is. Also people don't simply start feeling this way randomly and begin transition. It doesn't work that way. People often suppress it for a number of years. I have been incredibly aware that I was a girl from a very young age, although initially I couldn't characterize those "feelings" so clearly. I worked to suppress them for 27 years, and eventually it came down to a night where I was going to end my life (I attempted it once when I was 14, and 17 also). I had a gun in my MOUTH when my girlfriend at the time walked in and stopped me. So I find your comparison to the desire to be a unicorn not only laughable at best, but incredibly offensive, along with your assertion that somehow this intersexed condition is somehow less severe in nature that someone who was fortunate enough to have a body that they are generally comfortable with outside of internal sex organs. Just because it's more readily recognized doesn't mean it's any more real.
"Many trans-girls do extras without batting an eyelash where many woman would turn down request after request. "
This is kind of an irrelevant statement, because I can simply switch the position of trans-girls and woman and it still be true. Also I don't think separating women and trans-girls is accurate.
This thread started off with a LOL because frankly people don't take trans-people seriously. We are some stupid joke. Would you have the same response if the thread was titled in a way that was demeaning to women but that some people have an aversion to?
I frankly don't care if this situation would cause them to question their sexuality or be concerned with others might think. What is there to question? They weren't attracted to the woman's bulging muscles, or masculine features, they were attracted to their femininity. There is therefore nothing to be honest about, because it's a medical condition that has been fixed. End of story.
Also, if someone is so insecure that they are worried about everyone laughing at them behind their back, then I'd say that the issue isn't the dancer, but the insecurity. Personal growth and all that jazz.
unbeleavable
03-11-2011, 02:39 PM
^^^ I will say this conversation has educated me on the issues of trans....thank you
charlie61
03-11-2011, 06:39 PM
charlottenh--I edited the title of the thread awhile ago to make it a bit more respectful.
Part of the problem is that people view trans people really oddly: they simultaneously don't take them seriously, yet take them so seriously as to hate them. It's really bizarre to me.
cherryblossomsinspring
03-12-2011, 05:32 AM
I linked the video to show just one variation of intersexed development. The severity of the mismatch frankly doesn't matter if the person is compelled to fix the issue. Being in the wrong body is absolute agony frankly.
Crossdressers don't just accept the way they are born because it is a completely different animal than transsexuality. The 2 may be under the same generalized umbrella, but that's really all they have in common. Crossdressers identify as male, and live as such 90% of the time, generally have no desire to for hormone therapy, and don't suffer from gender dysphoria. This is not the case for transsexuals, who have the highest suicide rate among any minority group if it's left untreated. Many crossdressers are looked down upon by transsexuals because their crossdressing tends to be sexually driven, as opposed to a biological cause. That stigma is then applied to the transsexual population by the general populous. It's severely problematic, especially politically or medically.
Surgeons do not target anyone. They offer a service that can change the quality of one's life dramatically. I had facial surgery myself, and prior to having it, I had a much harder time living as a woman. Now I can go about my day with no issues, so much so that I almost exclusively date gay women. Certainly people purse cosmetic surgery for all sorts of reasons including vanity, but it's pretty obvious to a TS when surgery is needed when your current appearance causes issues day to day.
Comparing someone wanting to be a unicorn to transsexualism is a HUGE mistake. One is biological in nature with substantial evidence (especially considering how under funded studies are) that shows it to be true in brain structure even prior to hormone therapy, and the other is fantasy. Nobody has ever been born a unicorn, yet intersexed conditions are actually fairly common, and are actually increasing in frequency. It's present as early as age 2 which is when children start understanding gender.
By labeling them simply as feelings you are miscatagorizing what dysphoria is. Also people don't simply start feeling this way randomly and begin transition. It doesn't work that way. People often suppress it for a number of years. I have been incredibly aware that I was a girl from a very young age, although initially I couldn't characterize those "feelings" so clearly. I worked to suppress them for 27 years, and eventually it came down to a night where I was going to end my life (I attempted it once when I was 14, and 17 also). I had a gun in my MOUTH when my girlfriend at the time walked in and stopped me. So I find your comparison to the desire to be a unicorn not only laughable at best, but incredibly offensive, along with your assertion that somehow this intersexed condition is somehow less severe in nature that someone who was fortunate enough to have a body that they are generally comfortable with outside of internal sex organs. Just because it's more readily recognized doesn't mean it's any more real.
"Many trans-girls do extras without batting an eyelash where many woman would turn down request after request. "
This is kind of an irrelevant statement, because I can simply switch the position of trans-girls and woman and it still be true. Also I don't think separating women and trans-girls is accurate.
This thread started off with a LOL because frankly people don't take trans-people seriously. We are some stupid joke. Would you have the same response if the thread was titled in a way that was demeaning to women but that some people have an aversion to?
I frankly don't care if this situation would cause them to question their sexuality or be concerned with others might think. What is there to question? They weren't attracted to the woman's bulging muscles, or masculine features, they were attracted to their femininity. There is therefore nothing to be honest about, because it's a medical condition that has been fixed. End of story.
Also, if someone is so insecure that they are worried about everyone laughing at them behind their back, then I'd say that the issue isn't the dancer, but the insecurity. Personal growth and all that jazz.
So wait the person is not secure in their sexuality but the person that hates the body they were born is ? Isn't that just wonderful. So let's look down on men that don't want to be physical with transsexuals, but the person that was born with a body they didn't like to the point of trying to take their own life is somehow superior? Personal growth?? Hmm umm yeah accepting one's own self is usually where that growth starts.
That's an unfair judgement call right there. Everyone regardless of their gender has to right to be attracted to what they are attracted to. That's why this thread bothers so many heterosexual men that don't want to imagine the person that is grinding on them to have ever been born with any male parts.
See again " I frankly don't care" That's the issue. You cared enough to change your appearance, but don't care enough to be honest with that person where sex would be of major concern since "sex" is involved in some form. If the person wants you for you whatever you are then they will accept you as all you have been before and after.
The "unicorn" statement was to give a comparison and nothing more. This was in no way to diminish what you've experienced. But based on your comments you've attempted to diminish a person's right to choose. You've made the choice for them by saying they should just deal.
Also who says that everyone is comfortable with the body they were born in? Have we not seen very feminine gay males that don't change their outter appearance but still have no problems calling themselves "she" . Or what about the butch women that wear men's clothing and even grow out a mustache. There are some that actually do look like men but aren't.
You feel offended , but you're offending men that want to be with a woman that has always had those parts. That's offensive in itself. You bring up being open minded but you were close minded enough to hate the body you were born in. You could have just been as feminine as you wanted to be in your body. But to hate your body that much and then to say well now I love what I've become so now you (men) has to just accept it. That's pretty selfish and cruel.
Tolerance is one thing. But forcing someone to interact with you in a sexual manner in another. When a guy is made aware ahead of time, then he's given a CHOICE! Allow people to choose!! As you have made choices to live the life that you feel comfortable living.
That's why trans people get such a bad rap. For many men have dated, had sexual relations, gone to strip clubs etc, and have found out the hard way. Death tolls rise not necessarily from suicide but in many ways from being "found out".
So I end with again. Honesty is the best policy. Do you want to risk loosing your life over lap dance and some extras, Is it really worth it? I think not. ALLOW PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!!!
Almost Jaded
03-12-2011, 05:54 AM
I want to be taller and super hung - but, I cannot tell people - "Know what, I'm really 6.5 feet tall with an 9 inch monster dick, because that's how I've always identified myself in my brain." An obese "XXL" woman cannot say - "Actually, I'm a size 2, because that's what I've always wanted to be."
Not meaning to offend anyone on either side, but this cracked me up. :lol:
kitinboots
03-12-2011, 08:47 AM
I think I worked/lived with one in Paris. She was really tall, big feet, long legs and a small, cellulite free bum (she was in her 30s!!), fake tits, lots of facial work, she wore shitloads of makeup and hair extensions and just seemed like she had to try to be a girl (picture a dog in her handbag, always in kitten heels and trashy clothes, saying 'hey guuuuurls!')
I never caught a glimpse of her nether region, but one of the other girls said she thought it lookeda little odd.
charlottenh
03-12-2011, 09:48 AM
So wait the person is not secure in their sexuality but the person that hates the body they were born is ? Isn't that just wonderful. So let's look down on men that don't want to be physical with transsexuals, but the person that was born with a body they didn't like to the point of trying to take their own life is somehow superior? Personal growth?? Hmm umm yeah accepting one's own self is usually where that growth starts.
That's an unfair judgement call right there. Everyone regardless of their gender has to right to be attracted to what they are attracted to. That's why this thread bothers so many heterosexual men that don't want to imagine the person that is grinding on them to have ever been born with any male parts.
See again " I frankly don't care" That's the issue. You cared enough to change your appearance, but don't care enough to be honest with that person where sex would be of major concern since "sex" is involved in some form. If the person wants you for you whatever you are then they will accept you as all you have been before and after.
The "unicorn" statement was to give a comparison and nothing more. This was in no way to diminish what you've experienced. But based on your comments you've attempted to diminish a person's right to choose. You've made the choice for them by saying they should just deal.
Also who says that everyone is comfortable with the body they were born in? Have we not seen very feminine gay males that don't change their outter appearance but still have no problems calling themselves "she" . Or what about the butch women that wear men's clothing and even grow out a mustache. There are some that actually do look like men but aren't.
You feel offended , but you're offending men that want to be with a woman that has always had those parts. That's offensive in itself. "" You could have just been as feminine as you wanted to be in your body. But to hate your body that much and then to say well now I love what I've become so now you (men) has to just accept it. That's pretty selfish and cruel.
Tolerance is one thing. But forcing someone to interact with you in a sexual manner in another. When a guy is made aware ahead of time, then he's given a CHOICE! Allow people to choose!! As you have made choices to live the life that you feel comfortable living.
That's why trans people get such a bad rap. For many men have dated, had sexual relations, gone to strip clubs etc, and have found out the hard way. Death tolls rise not necessarily from suicide but in many ways from being "found out".
So I end with again. Honesty is the best policy. Do you want to risk loosing your life over lap dance and some extras, Is it really worth it? I think not. ALLOW PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!!!
Comparing someone that doesn't like a feature to someone who's entire life's experience is shaped by how they are perceived in society is rather shortsighted. We aren't simply talking about being unhappy with something physical (I have many features that I don't like that and that I cannot change but will not change because there is a large difference between gender identity dysphoria and being unhappy with how something might look).
We are talking about fitting into an ENTIRE system societally and all that goes along with living in accordance to one's gender identity. It's an all encompassing dysphoria. It affects small things like how someone refers to you, (him her, she) how the genders relate to you, who you can and cannot marry, who you date (I date gay women, and the experience is much different than when I dated prior to transition), what one's hormone levels are which make a HUGE difference in quality of life. Living with testosterone made me angry and miserable all of the time, and it was virtually impossible for me to express myself in the way I wanted to. There were times where all I wanted to do was cry because I knew it would make me feel better and I simply COULDN'T. One is triggered every second of the day all day by any number of things that contradict your gender identity.
To describe the intensity of my dysphoria for for others to get how serious it gets, I can only compare it to being relentlessly verbally abused by someone you love (I've been there), except it doesn't end until you go to sleep, and begins again when you wake up. It's serious business, and so for you to compare it to being unhappy with a feature or even merely physical appearance is incomplete at best. Every "sir" is like a verbal dagger because of what that conveys about your present circumstances.
I was never insecure about myself, but I knew what I needed to fix. Being unhappy with how one is perceived does not equal insecurity. It's actually been rather systematic and logical in that I see and issue which makes it difficult to blend as my target gender, and I fix it.
It's also not about "looking down on men" as the impact of divulging the fact that I am trans to anybody but a dating partner far outweighs someone's fleeting insecurity, especially in a club setting where I don't personally know these people. I tell the people I date after they get to know me, but prior to physical contact, so there is no deception on my end, ever. Furthermore, it isn't about accepting one's self or not, it's about correcting a biological issue that has physical evidence in the form of brain scans, and the make up of the brain. Simply put, it's a female brain IN a male body. Also the gay male example is inaccurate, because calling themselves she is just one of the many expressions used in the gay community and is not a reflection of their gender identity. What you are suggesting is akin to getting transsexual tattooed on my forehead. If I were to dance, I wouldn't divulge my situation in the same way you don't divulge every surgical procedure to the same people. I don't somehow owe it to people to tell them unless it's a long-term dating situation.
One cannot simply live contrary to one's gender and be happy. While people do get murdered because of deception (evidence in major murder cases show that that the men initially claiming to not know were lying and they only murdered the girl after other people found out about the girl's trans status), they are more likely to be murdered simply because they are transgendered. The population is targeted. The suicide rate of transsexuals prior to transition is 30%, and is but a fraction of that once they are presenting successfully as their target gender, while the murder rate is 1 in 12. Both are tragic statistics, but there is no comparison between the two in numbers. If you acknowledge that being found out leads to murder, then why in my right mind would I help that along? I have a few friends who were murdered because they were found out, but that had no sexual contact with these people at all.
If one could accept oneself and be happy without transition, then what treatment of the hundreds that have been tried (injecting them with testosterone to make them "man up", reparative therapy, psychological therapy etc) do you suggest? They have all been a massive failure. They simply don't work.
"You bring up being open minded but you were close minded enough to hate the body you were born in."
This statement makes no sense, but gave me a good laugh, because close mindedness has nothing to do with transitioning or not transitioning. I would argue that transitioning is about as open minded as one can get lol. It's also very clear that you have ideological views as to what transitioning is all about that are rather incorrect. It's impossible to discuss matters such as these when the very foundation of one's beliefs on a subject matter are factually inaccurate.
Pink Chelle
03-12-2011, 11:18 AM
I agree with most here. A man is a man.
Pink Chelle
03-12-2011, 11:22 AM
It would greatly anger me if I was dating someone that had deceived me to believe they are a different sex then they are.
charlie61
03-12-2011, 11:32 AM
^ Which is a fair opinion. But what's more interesting to me is why?