View Full Version : Why Men Love Bitches - This Sh*t REALLY works
Kellydancer
06-02-2012, 05:02 PM
Well considering I dated a man who told me upfront marriage wasn't in his plans (and he's still not married)I am not going through that again. No not all men change, even if they meet the one. Instead they date them for years then dump them. I'd rather they dump me early than later. This is why I date several men for a few months to see which ones are marriage minded and which ones aren't. I also do not sleep with them either. All of this weeds out the men not looking for marriage.
GlamourRouge
06-02-2012, 05:34 PM
Well considering I dated a man who told me upfront marriage wasn't in his plans (and he's still not married)I am not going through that again. No not all men change, even if they meet the one. Instead they date them for years then dump them. I'd rather they dump me early than later. This is why I date several men for a few months to see which ones are marriage minded and which ones aren't. I also do not sleep with them either. All of this weeds out the men not looking for marriage.
Well the point is not be one of those OH IF I DATE HIM LONG ENOUGH HE'LL MARRY ME girls and to instead just not be delusional and let his actions speak over the course of a month or 2 or 3 so that you can see if he's marriage-minded or not, but so that you don't bring it up and scare him away.
cherryblossomsinspring
06-02-2012, 05:50 PM
I think it is important to be on the same wavelength upfront so both know what the other is looking for. I don't need a man I want one. I'm not desperate at all, as for improving myself I am quite confident in myself so I see no need for improvement. If a man doesn't want me his loss, but I will not give him what he wants until I receive what I want in return. However I am older and look at this in more realistic views and will not bend over for a man.
Never tell a man you are looking for marriage ever. The game is you never show what in your hands.
I went through my rookie phase of saying everything that was on my mind. Talking about forever thanks to those stupid ass love movies. All I did was showed my cards to my opponent so he knew exactly how to play against me.
Once I realized this I learned to shut up and say nothing. I don't talk about expectations hopes wishes unless they have absolutely nothing to do with a man. One bf made himself to be the opposite of whatever I said I didn't like in some guys . The problem was he was everything I said I didn't like in some guys. He was taking notes while I babbled all the way. It's smart. If you're trying to ambush someone , you don't give away your position. Dating is very much like that. Now even with him he wasn't looking for long term, he put it on his profile so women would ASS-UME he did. Then after fucking for a while he could pull the plug . With me the problem he had was that I was too aloof and he wasn't used to a woman being with him , having fun but wasn't picking out his and her robes by date 5. My behavior made him push for a relationship and later him pushing for marriage. This coming from the guy that would run circles around women and drop them after years with no problem in a relationship, after the mention of marriage.
I dumped him :) and countered his marriage proposal with "it's too soon" " we need more time". I sounded like the guy that didn't want to be held down. I did see exactly why women wanted to marry him. They were looking at his good looks, hot body and his finances. He had the full package but he also had serious issues . This guy wanted to hold me down so bad, I didn't get why he was so insecure.
After him I did maybe 2 dates one guy I met once and he was proposing , the other guy was telling me he's looking for a wife. Ohh and that weird mimbo guy said on the first date" I'm not looking for anything" which was weird because I didn't ask him. Stupid. After he realized I wasn't interested after that weird first date of me having to turn the parking lot into a boxing match , he told me he was looking for a wife. So he was trying to hide his desire for marriage but it came out in a weird way anyways.
So I'm anti-talk marriage to any guy. If you really want it , don't ever bring it up. Let him do it. If he asks you what you're looking for be vague. Just say well I want to see where things go. Even if a guy wants marriage he could be an asshole so its the same as him saying "I want to stuff you in my trunk". Either way you'd be screwed .
GlamourRouge
06-02-2012, 06:51 PM
Never tell a man you are looking for marriage ever. The game is you never show what in your hands.
I went through my rookie phase of saying everything that was on my mind. Talking about forever thanks to those stupid ass love movies. All I did was showed my cards to my opponent so he knew exactly how to play against me.
Once I realized this I learned to shut up and say nothing. I don't talk about expectations hopes wishes unless they have absolutely nothing to do with a man. One bf made himself to be the opposite of whatever I said I didn't like in some guys . The problem was he was everything I said I didn't like in some guys. He was taking notes while I babbled all the way. It's smart. If you're trying to ambush someone , you don't give away your position. Dating is very much like that. Now even with him he wasn't looking for long term, he put it on his profile so women would ASS-UME he did. Then after fucking for a while he could pull the plug . With me the problem he had was that I was too aloof and he wasn't used to a woman being with him , having fun but wasn't picking out his and her robes by date 5. My behavior made him push for a relationship and later him pushing for marriage. This coming from the guy that would run circles around women and drop them after years with no problem in a relationship, after the mention of marriage.
I dumped him :) and countered his marriage proposal with "it's too soon" " we need more time". I sounded like the guy that didn't want to be held down. I did see exactly why women wanted to marry him. They were looking at his good looks, hot body and his finances. He had the full package but he also had serious issues . This guy wanted to hold me down so bad, I didn't get why he was so insecure.
After him I did maybe 2 dates one guy I met once and he was proposing , the other guy was telling me he's looking for a wife. Ohh and that weird mimbo guy said on the first date" I'm not looking for anything" which was weird because I didn't ask him. Stupid. After he realized I wasn't interested after that weird first date of me having to turn the parking lot into a boxing match , he told me he was looking for a wife. So he was trying to hide his desire for marriage but it came out in a weird way anyways.
So I'm anti-talk marriage to any guy. If you really want it , don't ever bring it up. Let him do it. If he asks you what you're looking for be vague. Just say well I want to see where things go. Even if a guy wants marriage he could be an asshole so its the same as him saying "I want to stuff you in my trunk". Either way you'd be screwed .
Bingo! That's EXACTLY how you play the dating game! You will win every single man you want and didn't want with this method. Its COMPLETELY DUMB AS HELL, but it works like 99.9% of the time for god knows what reason. When asked, I respond "I don't know if I ever want to get married... uhh maybe" and that pushes them to do everything in their power just to make me want to marry them. Men like challenge. They want a prize. They have inborn instincts to win over women. They don't want someone whose too easy (and YES this includes relationships- NOT just sex!). They want a prize. And a prize is something *they* have to go after and win. Sadly, dating is like a game. I didn't make the rules, I just play by them *shrugs*, but I know how to play the game and that's how you play.
Kellydancer
06-02-2012, 08:18 PM
I know what I am doing and no I am not telling them I want marriage with them but will not date a man for months with it going nowhere. When I meet a man online I tell these men I will not sleep with them and I will not. I'm also not concerned about love, marriage is the only goal. Trust me if you get my age and still single it will make sense. I dated a man I really loved and he refused to ever marry so next time the object is for me to play them.
I still don't think you understand what I am talking about. I am not telling men I want to marry them, just that it is an option. I have been proposed to many times early on and yes I rejected them.
GlamourRouge
06-02-2012, 08:32 PM
I know what I am doing and no I am not telling them I want marriage with them but will not date a man for months with it going nowhere. When I meet a man online I tell these men I will not sleep with them and I will not. I'm also not concerned about love, marriage is the only goal. Trust me if you get my age and still single it will make sense. I dated a man I really loved and he refused to ever marry so next time the object is for me to play them.
Honestly, every guy I know would run in the opposite direction at that. You don't have to date a man for months to know what his intentions with you are. They should be blatantly obvious unless you're blinded by OMG WE BETTER GET MARRIED WHEN WILL HE ASK ME. Men can see right through you if your intentions are seriously set on marriage and not love. Marriage comes after love. Perhaps the reason you haven't been so lucky is because these men sense that you're objectifying them into being "a husband" rather than loving them for who they are and seeing where it takes you?
And I mean, if I were a guy a woman said "I WILL NOT SLEEP WITH YOU UNTIL ENGAGEMENT. I AM ALSO MARRIAGE-MINDED" I would probably deem her high-maintenance + not worth it, be worried that she doesn't like *me* but rather just want the first man who will agree to be her husband, and run in the opposite direction. If I were a guy, I would want someone I really clicked with, with no expectations at first, and just see where it goes. If a guy likes you enough, he'll marry you. If a guy doesn't like you enough, he won't. But I'd say that's true for like 98% of men out there regardless if they say they want marriage or they don't.
The only people that marry just to get married (and not for love) are those who marry 21 year old trophy wives with prenups, and that usually comes along with the flashy "rich men" lifestyle that you say you hate, so idk.
Kellydancer
06-02-2012, 08:39 PM
I don't sleep with them for religious reasons among other reasons and I don't have to justify anything. In fact why do you think men don't marry? because sex is readily available and once they get it they are gone. No way is that happening to me again so nope no sex before marriage.
I'm actually not sure why my life interests you and why you seem bent on telling me how wrong I am. Trust me I have dated a lot, lived with two and the men who were most interested in marriage weren't those who expect sex early on. I could have married most of them but knew I didn't want to marry them so I know how to get men to propose.
I am dating a few right now and very casually. I will not commit to any of them until I realize what their goal is. I'm also not planning to live with them either. There are a lot of men who never want marriage and I was able to dump these guys right off the bat after finding out they just wanted sex. There is one guy I am very interested in now and I am playing hard to get by not contacting him.
Flickdreams
06-02-2012, 11:53 PM
In the context of what is written in the book, Glamour Rouge is showing interest in your life (thats a good thing though-isn'tit?). I think she, Cherry Blossom and I view elements of your situation in a similar way and are trying to convery what we think someone who follows the book would do in the same circumstances.
It sounds to me as though you hold yourself to very high standards and believe it or not I think I do understand why you're seeking marriage first with love as a bonus (my paraphrasing). I think there is a way to keep your own choices (no sex before marriage/no living with them either) that is more sympatico with the book. I also think that it will bring you to your desired outcome in a neater way.
I am not saying she's right/wrong. I am just picturing you saying to a guy "No sex before marriage" I imagine it would feel blunt to hear. Whether the man is quality or not.:)
Kellydancer
06-02-2012, 11:57 PM
I tell them that it is for religious reasons and that is the truth. I am not interested in sleeping with someone unless it is marriage. Been there, done that. See, my last boyfriend was one of those never marrying men and I have to make sure I don't encounter another one like him. He destroyed me inside and another one will completely destroy me. So to avoid these men I casually date a few and do not get serious until I see they are seeking the same thing. Ironically I never slept with him which was the one good thing I did.
Flickdreams
06-03-2012, 12:01 AM
So your not bluntly saying "I wont sleep with a man until marriage"?
Kellydancer
06-03-2012, 12:13 AM
It hasn't come up yet except once and I told him I am religious and take sex seriously. If pressed further I state I take religion seriously and do not believe in premarital sex. Yes it screens out a lot of men but the men I am interested in will feel the same. It's not a way to trap men into marriage but rather that I feel strongly about this and will not bend.
Flickdreams
06-03-2012, 01:24 AM
I don't think the book is about trying to 'trap' a man into marriage though, Do you?
Sorry to jump in and out of the convo, getting ready for an OTC- if he doesn't balk at $1000 ;D
cherryblossomsinspring
06-03-2012, 02:43 AM
^ There is nothing wrong with not having sex until you are married. You just don't tell them that immediately. The guys that are sexually broken down there will hit you up because for them they don't want to have to get someone in a position of seeing that their penis is under an inch and deal with rejection again. Or hey he can't take viagra because he has a heart condition yet he hasn't been functioning in the last 5 years. You would be married to a hitachi wand user because that's the only sexual fun you'll be having. It's best to let the guy get to know you first. Just keep things from the bedroom for a while. If he gets pushy then you know why. If he can tell you're not going to have sex and that's his whole goal then he'll stop calling which is fine. Hopefully you took some great events in.
I agree with your view of making him wait , all I suggest is that you don't tell him he's going to wait. I mean think about it. If you went to the the post office and grabbed a number. If it was 52 and they were calling number 30 on the speaker, would you stick around and wait for those 22 people? No . You'd say it's too busy, I'll do this tomorrow. That's exactly what guys will do when they hear" I'm not having sex until marriage". I've been through a "no sex "period in dating, but that was easy because the guys were too pushy and hungry for it. It's a turn off for me when a guy is trying to "set up" sex. Like "come over for dinner" " I want to cook for you" "hey how about I come over with some movies". See these men are not telling me the honest truth. They are trying to be sneaky about it. Now think about what this guy is really NOT saying to me: "Hey I'm want to come over because I'm too broke to pay for dinner and because I just want to fuck you, I'm not interested in spending too much cash." "A $3.00 rental should do the trick. " Is he being honest? No. He may even try to put you at ease and say " I only want to get to know you better" or even " look it's just a movie , I'm a perfect gentleman". Bullshit!
Try and get them to take you out , they'll say hey lets hang out at your place/ or my place. Right because your cock is going to be hanging out your pants. I think I'll call it a night. If you're out with a guy that doesn't know how to keep a poker face, he'll look angry or upset. Scary shit to see when someone gets mad because you aren't allowing them into a space where it's harder to fight them off. So have I dodged the dangerous?? Barely.
Now again some I've told "I don't have sex anymore" .I knew they would disappear and that's what I wanted. It's funny how you can say just the right thing in letting someone leave you alone without actually rejecting them. I always loved guys that responded with dumb answers" are you gay?" , "you must have gotten hurt", "you are so limited" " you are limiting yourself". I could go on for days with the responses to " why can't I just fuck you". lol
One movie I feel every woman should watch" He's just not that in to you". Now the main female lead is just the typical " bleeding heart on the sleeve type" . Believing in forever so much that she was getting dicked around left and right. The cool thing was she had that male friend giving her the insider's info on how guys play the game and why.
One neat trick a guy tried to pull on me was that on the date he was talking about a sushi party on his sun deck that was going to be held the day after our date. Coincidence? Ha nope. He's good looking, well to do etc. Why not? especially if we're going to have this amazing day tomorrow meeting his friends etc etc. lol When he couldn't get laid he became aloof, like he didn't even want me around. Surprising? no. He had a goal and wanted to get me to give it up without too much pushing. Promises are the easiest way to snag a woman. Ohh and guess what? That party never happened. Surprised? No.
I've been invited to several so called "parties" generally it's to get laid that day or to get me to come over to a party of "one".
LaurenAus
06-03-2012, 09:00 AM
I kinda see where Kelly's coming from. Some guys will just string girls along because they can with no intention of marriage. And if you're younger and still have time to play games, it's not a huge loss. Yes speaking up may scare them away, but not saying anything at all and you're wasting time. Where's the happy medium? If I were at an age where I was serious about getting married and perhaps having kids and I kept my mouth shut for a year and the guy still has no intention of getting married I would think, well damn, I just wasted a year of my life when I could've potentially found someone with my same life goals.
Kellydancer
06-03-2012, 10:25 AM
I kinda see where Kelly's coming from. Some guys will just string girls along because they can with no intention of marriage. And if you're younger and still have time to play games, it's not a huge loss. Yes speaking up may scare them away, but not saying anything at all and you're wasting time. Where's the happy medium? If I were at an age where I was serious about getting married and perhaps having kids and I kept my mouth shut for a year and the guy still has no intention of getting married I would think, well damn, I just wasted a year of my life when I could've potentially found someone with my same life goals.
That's my point. Most of them are younger and have time. I don't, and everytime I waste with a guy is time ticking away. I can't date for years to have him say "I'm not interested in marriage". I have to find out soon after dating whether that is his goal. The fact is there are many men my age who aren't interested in marriage and I am not interested in just dating them. I have seen far too many women who dated a man for years only to see him not want marriage.
cherryblossomsinspring
06-03-2012, 12:09 PM
That's my point. Most of them are younger and have time. I don't, and everytime I waste with a guy is time ticking away. I can't date for years to have him say "I'm not interested in marriage". I have to find out soon after dating whether that is his goal. The fact is there are many men my age who aren't interested in marriage and I am not interested in just dating them. I have seen far too many women who dated a man for years only to see him not want marriage.
Actually Kelly I see your point. These are older men you're talking about. 40+ So I guess with these guys you have to be straight up honest. I don't know I've only dated maybe 5 ....40+ guys and in general I would say they were in my face about their desires. I mean they would try to keep it from me and give me bullshit promises and when that didn't work they got really direct like " look I'm a man , I love sex etc". That one guy was like umm are you going to fuck me? No ok well I got some work to do and the whole "back to craiglist" line really made me hit that door as fast as possible. So perhaps the older the guy gets the more direct he gets with what he wants when bullshit lines fail to give him immediate results.
Kellydancer
06-03-2012, 12:31 PM
I have been lucky because most of these guys tell me upfront what they are looking for. In fact 2 months ago I met this guy off a dating site and he told me upfront he's looking to get married. We didn't work out, but yes these men are being blunt because like me they don't have much time either to find someone (and it's not just biological but rather the availability of single people who want to marry gets very low soon). I have heard that engagements from my age group tends to come somewhat early because people who want to marry don't want to waste time. It could be argued maybe people get engaged early because they are desperate but I haven't dealt with that.
I still find men just wanting sex (especially with guys who are single but claim not to be)but for the most part I can find these guys because they tend to be blunt.
Jay12
06-03-2012, 02:56 PM
Wow, I found this thread today and all I can say about that book is that it has some practical advice (about being yourself, learn to say now, self respect and maintaining your dignity), but for the most part is all stupid BS about how to manipulate men. Honestly, most of the chapters consisted on doing things to manipulate and mistreat men and just like the first two or three chapters were about things that actually made sense. I read the book when I was sixteen because my then perpetually single aunt insisted me that the book was the best thing since sliced bread.
GlamourRouge
06-03-2012, 04:28 PM
Wow, I found this thread today and all I can say about that book is that it has some practical advice (about being yourself, learn to say now, self respect and maintaining your dignity), but for the most part is all stupid BS about how to manipulate men. Honestly, most of the chapters consisted on doing things to manipulate and mistreat men and just like the first two or three chapters were about things that actually made sense. I read the book when I was sixteen because my then perpetually single aunt insisted me that the book was the best thing since sliced bread.
Its not really manipulation. Its more like... using the biologically ingrained primal instincts in men to your advantage. When we were designed/made/created/formed, we lived in a completely different world. We didn't come in contact with millions of people through out our lifetime, men were hunters and women were essentially mothers & homemakers, and men had to fight for the woman(/women) of his choice. So since our genetics and primal instincts have not caught up with the times & the current world we live in, men still respond the best to the strategies the book presents. Its kind of a fact of life.
Jay12
06-03-2012, 04:35 PM
Its not really manipulation. Its more like... using the biologically ingrained primal instincts in men to your advantage. When we were designed/made/created/formed, we lived in a completely different world. We didn't come in contact with millions of people through out our lifetime, men were hunters and women were essentially mothers & homemakers, and men had to fight for the woman(/women) of his choice. So since our genetics and primal instincts have not caught up with the times & the current world we live in, men still respond the best to the strategies the book presents. Its kind of a fact of life.
No matter how you want to rephrase it, most of the book advice sounded more like childish games and manipulation, IMHO. If I have to act dumb in front of a man to get what I want from him (there are some chapters in that book that advice that), a man like that is not worth my time and energy.
GlamourRouge
06-03-2012, 06:18 PM
No matter how you want to rephrase it, most of the book advice sounded more like childish games and manipulation, IMHO. If I have to act dumb in front of a man to get what I want from him (there are some chapters in that book that advice that), a man like that is not worth my time and energy.
Its a psychology book. So I guess if you consider psychology childish games and manipulation, then yes.
justanothercamgirl
06-03-2012, 06:41 PM
I love this book, but I hate the fact that it is so right about men.
I'd prefer if I could just be a 'nice girl' but it is true what they say....the bitchy wheel gets the grease. ;)
Jay12
06-03-2012, 08:10 PM
Its a psychology book. So I guess if you consider psychology childish games and manipulation, then yes.
The book wasn't written by an actual mental health professional, there are similar books written by actual mental health professionals (the "Mars and Venus" series, for example) that gives more realistic relationship advice than childish games and manipulation. The "Dumb like a fox" chapter, for example, made me cringe; is a chapter of nothing but manipulation. Also, advising to ruin a man's laundry just to make a point when a simple conversation could had solved everything (yes, the book mentions a woman who makes clear to her husband that she will not do laundry, and to make it obvious, she drops a red sock into his white laundry, so it will turn out pink, and thus, he will never leave her do his laundry).
Seriously, despite the book does have some great advice at the beginning it is overshadowed by all the crap the latter chapters present. Love yourself, have dignity...great. Pretend to not know how to change a car tire or ruin a man's laundry just to make a point...stupid. Also, I don't know where the book got the stupid idea that all men fear commitment and run from women who ask for "exclusivity", but will try to get the woman who acts ok without commitment; seriously, that actually sounds degrading to men. I mean, the last time a girlfriend of mine used that "trick" she got exactly that...no commitment. The guy was actually upset because he really wanted her and she being all casual and cool about the lack of commitment only drove him away. He did not appreciate the tag game she was playing with him.
Jay12
06-03-2012, 08:11 PM
I love this book, but I hate the fact that it is so right about men.
I'd prefer if I could just be a 'nice girl' but it is true what they say....the bitchy wheel gets the grease. ;)
Yeah...if you're into weakminded fratboy type of guys. Some of the things the book say are actually degrading to men.
GlamourRouge
06-04-2012, 05:39 AM
The book wasn't written by an actual mental health professional, there are similar books written by actual mental health professionals (the "Mars and Venus" series, for example) that gives more realistic relationship advice than childish games and manipulation. The "Dumb like a fox" chapter, for example, made me cringe; is a chapter of nothing but manipulation. Also, advising to ruin a man's laundry just to make a point when a simple conversation could had solved everything (yes, the book mentions a woman who makes clear to her husband that she will not do laundry, and to make it obvious, she drops a red sock into his white laundry, so it will turn out pink, and thus, he will never leave her do his laundry).
As someone with a strong background in psychology, I'd say it doesn't have to be written by a mental health professional to be a psychology book. Its just basic psychology- nothing too hard. Anyone can study human behavior because the explanations for doing what we do as humans is pretty... logical? Pretty logical once you figure out what those explanations are, which is easily discoverable in books IMO. And actually the book uses a lot of anthropological, biological, and psychological concepts & facts.
Examples aren't meant to be taken literally, but rather as a guide or to prove a point. The point of the laundry anecdote was not to destroy some guy's laundry. The point was not to let yourself be walked all over, used, or forced into doing something you don't want to do. So, in essence, sabotaging whatever is asked of you is MUCH more effective than kicking, screaming, and bitching to a guy about how you won't do it. Men typically process things different than women. They learn by action, not by words. They are visual creatures, remember? We are emotional creatures so we are able to process things verbally much better. With visual creatures, they need to physically *see* things to comprehend them. We are typically opposites. And so in lies the problem with relationships.
All men don't fear commitment. In fact I think just about any man WOULD commit if she was a quality girl whom he *won* over. The book implies (which is pretty true) that the underlying issue is the fact that men want you to like them for who they are without any expectations, and then they (men) get to be the decide if they take things further (i.e. serious relationship, engagement, marriage) with the woman. Unfortunately, men are the deciding factor whether women like it or not because they do the proposing.
A lot of the time women ask for exclusivity because they want a boyfriend & they like the guy. A man wants exclusivity after he feels like he's won her as a prize. Once he has won his prize and has the drive to keep her, THEN will he start taking things seriously. By a woman throwing herself at the man talking about how she wants exclusivity, he no longer looks at her as a prize. Why? Because he no longer gets to *win* her. Its too easy for him. The woman might as well be throwing free sex at him as well because its pretty much the same thing. He needs to "hunt" and "trap" her if you will (think caveman times). Remember, men are hunters and they should do all the courting or they won't stick around very long. They are genetically primed to like that challenge.
The issue with your girlfriend not getting commitment probably had nothing to do with the book, and more to do with the fact that he didn't think she was right for him for long-term. No correlation IMO because there's too many other factors that go into if something will work out or not. And in addition, we all know men will say anything to get in someone's pants or to make themselves feel better after they don't *win* over a woman whether he really wants her or not. Its male instinct to try and attract as many conventionally attractive women as possible. I'm pretty sure men get off on that kind of thing. I know plenty of males (friends) who like to go on dates with pretty women just so the women start getting attached and they can turn her down or ignore her... because it makes them feel better. It makes them feel like they are the most in demand, which is essentially what they are genetically programmed to do. Its really dumb, but ah the facts of life.
justanothercamgirl
06-04-2012, 05:49 AM
Yeah...if you're into weakminded fratboy type of guys. Some of the things the book say are actually degrading to men.
I disagree, if there is anything I can assure you of -- it is that I am not 'into weakminded fratboy types of guys.' I am the first to admit that not every word in the book is sheer gold (I have yet to find a book yet that there was) but I am unwilling to dismiss the book in its entirety and instead was able to take what worked from me for and leave the rest behind.
As a side note, John Gray from the 'Men are from Mars' series received his bachelors and masters degree in the Science of Creative Intelligence. He is a 'relationship counselor' and has no formal psychology background.
Jay12
06-05-2012, 12:30 AM
As someone with a strong background in psychology, I'd say it doesn't have to be written by a mental health professional to be a psychology book. Its just basic psychology- nothing too hard. Anyone can study human behavior because the explanations for doing what we do as humans is pretty... logical? Pretty logical once you figure out what those explanations are, which is easily discoverable in books IMO. And actually the book uses a lot of anthropological, biological, and psychological concepts & facts.
It uses tons of inverse psychology and stereotypes, and lots of movie references that didn't made sense to the sixteen year old me. I found most of the book extremely chauvinist. Summary: women=weak, mentally unstable; men=powerful, rational. It really brings feminism back thousands of years. I guess I found the book extremely chauvinist with just a pinch of practical advice because I was raised in a gender neutral home where men were open with their feelings and women were the more "powerful" ones since most of them were breadwinners and I'm used to see men as people and not as the animals the book portraits. I grew up surrounded by men, and I found the book extremely insulting to them.
Examples aren't meant to be taken literally, but rather as a guide or to prove a point. The point of the laundry anecdote was not to destroy some guy's laundry. The point was not to let yourself be walked all over, used, or forced into doing something you don't want to do. So, in essence, sabotaging whatever is asked of you is MUCH more effective than kicking, screaming, and bitching to a guy about how you won't do it. Men typically process things different than women. They learn by action, not by words. They are visual creatures, remember? We are emotional creatures so we are able to process things verbally much better. With visual creatures, they need to physically *see* things to comprehend them. We are typically opposites. And so in lies the problem with relationships.
What happen to just saying no? The book rarely mentions how to just say no or how to get into agreements in a rational, mature way. Again, you're bringing sexist stereotypes again; women=emotional, men=visual. I guess I was born with the wrong equipment because I'm a visual person and not too emotional.
All men don't fear commitment. In fact I think just about any man WOULD commit if she was a quality girl whom he *won* over. The book implies (which is pretty true) that the underlying issue is the fact that men want you to like them for who they are without any expectations, and then they (men) get to be the decide if they take things further (i.e. serious relationship, engagement, marriage) with the woman. Unfortunately, men are the deciding factor whether women like it or not because they do the proposing.
Women can also being the deciding factor too; they can propose to men too, they can say no, they can invite men on dates, and men can be more passive in that role. I was the one who proposed to my current husband, and the one who decided if I wanted to be exclusive or keep shopping around. You could say he was more like the women and I was more like the men the author of the book describes; main reason why I didn't like the book, it centers too much in the typical gender roles. And again, it all goes down to the way we were raised; he was used to see his dad at home taking care of him, while he was used seeing his mother going to work and being the breadwinner.
A lot of the time women ask for exclusivity because they want a boyfriend & they like the guy. A man wants exclusivity after he feels like he's won her as a prize. Once he has won his prize and has the drive to keep her, THEN will he start taking things seriously. By a woman throwing herself at the man talking about how she wants exclusivity, he no longer looks at her as a prize. Why? Because he no longer gets to *win* her. Its too easy for him. The woman might as well be throwing free sex at him as well because its pretty much the same thing. He needs to "hunt" and "trap" her if you will (think caveman times). Remember, men are hunters and they should do all the courting or they won't stick around very long. They are genetically primed to like that challenge.
Again, the whole gender stereotypes. Women are not prizes and men are not animals. We are human beings with feelings and thoughts. A man that feel he needs to "win" me in order to be with me is not worth my time. I don't want to be seen as some object, and neither does he wants to be seen as some animal. Our brains had evolved from the cavemen, and now women can be the hunters too. I cringed so much when that book repeated that over and over and over and over. The thing that always wins the hearts of anyone is honesty; being themselves, not some tag games. This book is an update of "The Rules".
The issue with your girlfriend not getting commitment probably had nothing to do with the book, and more to do with the fact that he didn't think she was right for him for long-term. No correlation IMO because there's too many other factors that go into if something will work out or not. And in addition, we all know men will say anything to get in someone's pants or to make themselves feel better after they don't *win* over a woman whether he really wants her or not. Its male instinct to try and attract as many conventionally attractive women as possible. I'm pretty sure men get off on that kind of thing. I know plenty of males (friends) who like to go on dates with pretty women just so the women start getting attached and they can turn her down or ignore her... because it makes them feel better. It makes them feel like they are the most in demand, which is essentially what they are genetically programmed to do. Its really dumb, but ah the facts of life.
My friend thought that if she really wanted that guy to commit to her, she had to show him indifference. It did not worked for her. I knew the guy too, and he was really into her until he figured she was just trying to play the cat-mouse game. As simple as that. What's in bold letter is just plain insulting to men. No comments.
GlamourRouge
06-05-2012, 11:54 AM
Working against genetics & biology is never usually a good idea IMO.
SweetVibrance
06-05-2012, 01:17 PM
Used my knowledge from this book on the boyfriend the other day. Was in town doing errands. Asked if he wanted to see me before I left to go back to my town. No answer by the time I was heading home over an hour later, and I know he wasn't busy, so said "OK, guess not. Going baby, see ya!" and 10 minutes later he responds 3 times in a row about how he's an idiot, and am I really going home? I could have turned back of course, but said nope, very close to home. He got sad and said "Tomorrow??" I said maybe and let me check my schedule.
Then, go home and wait a few hours. Tell him tomorrow will be doable after my errands I have to get done. Tell him to call me so we can make plans. I wait and he finally calls 10 minutes after he said he was calling. I didnt answer. ( I was actually busy) I tried to call him back and no answer. Waited 30 minutes. No call back, so I say "Baby Im tired, going to bed. Since I haven't heard from you to make plans for tomorrow, I'm going to make plans with somebody else for tomorrow night."
1 minute later he's calling to make plans. I love it.
_natasha
06-05-2012, 01:32 PM
Very true, but think what happens when a man behaves like that toward you. I can't stand needy men! ugh. So unattractive, so no wonder men don't like that either.
It's all about being your own person and having your own interests. Makes for a much more interesting relationship.
Well, it wasn't so much me being 'needy' before this thread... In fact, I would never call myself needy. It's just that I decided from reading this thread, I won't go out of my way quite as much to accommodate men.
I believe in making an effort and I don't believe that is 'needy'... I think that is common courtesy. Maybe that's a very 'British manners' approach. However, I do believe too much courtesy makes you a pushover (at least at the beginning of a relationship) and this thread reminded me of that. It works on both sides of a relationship. I equate needy with being clingy, and desperate... Not with politeness.
GlamourRouge
06-05-2012, 02:23 PM
Used my knowledge from this book on the boyfriend the other day. Was in town doing errands. Asked if he wanted to see me before I left to go back to my town. No answer by the time I was heading home over an hour later, and I know he wasn't busy, so said "OK, guess not. Going baby, see ya!" and 10 minutes later he responds 3 times in a row about how he's an idiot, and am I really going home? I could have turned back of course, but said nope, very close to home. He got sad and said "Tomorrow??" I said maybe and let me check my schedule.
Then, go home and wait a few hours. Tell him tomorrow will be doable after my errands I have to get done. Tell him to call me so we can make plans. I wait and he finally calls 10 minutes after he said he was calling. I didnt answer. ( I was actually busy) I tried to call him back and no answer. Waited 30 minutes. No call back, so I say "Baby Im tired, going to bed. Since I haven't heard from you to make plans for tomorrow, I'm going to make plans with somebody else for tomorrow night."
1 minute later he's calling to make plans. I love it.
To be honest with you, this is seriously like what you HAVE to do to get a man to respect you. You have to put YOURSELF first at all times.
Okay and let me admit something here guys. The reason I even picked up & studied this book and Why Men Marry Bitches in the first place was because I was burned by a guy I was really into and knew I went wrong, but did not know how. SERIOUSLY, the ENTIRE book was my situation. I fucked up multiple times and eventually lost the guy. That had never happened to me before. Usually I get exactly what I want out of a guy. So I FREAKED OUT and bought this book and it explained everything in detail. Never will I make the same mistakes again.
And I'm not even into men anymore LMAO, but hopefully that will change one day or something so I can actually use what I learned on someone worthwhile instead of toward rando men I don't care about at all.
Layla Diamante
06-05-2012, 03:14 PM
Used my knowledge from this book on the boyfriend the other day. Was in town doing errands. Asked if he wanted to see me before I left to go back to my town. No answer by the time I was heading home over an hour later, and I know he wasn't busy, so said "OK, guess not. Going baby, see ya!" and 10 minutes later he responds 3 times in a row about how he's an idiot, and am I really going home? I could have turned back of course, but said nope, very close to home. He got sad and said "Tomorrow??" I said maybe and let me check my schedule.
Then, go home and wait a few hours. Tell him tomorrow will be doable after my errands I have to get done. Tell him to call me so we can make plans. I wait and he finally calls 10 minutes after he said he was calling. I didnt answer. ( I was actually busy) I tried to call him back and no answer. Waited 30 minutes. No call back, so I say "Baby Im tired, going to bed. Since I haven't heard from you to make plans for tomorrow, I'm going to make plans with somebody else for tomorrow night."
1 minute later he's calling to make plans. I love it.
You live an hour away from your boyfriend and he can't be bothered to see you or answer your texts? Are you sure you want to keep him?
Jay12
06-05-2012, 08:25 PM
Working against genetics & biology is never usually a good idea IMO.
Well, being the "lady" has never been too good for me. I'm a rational human being, not an irrational ape. If you like gender stereotypes, that's good but like I said, I came from a gender neutral family.
GlamourRouge
06-05-2012, 09:57 PM
Well, being the "lady" has never been too good for me. I'm a rational human being, not an irrational ape. If you like gender stereotypes, that's good but like I said, I came from a gender neutral family.
lol I'm a lesbian at this point, but ok assume what you want. Our genetics have not caught up with the times. Our genetics are still stuck in caveman era.
Optimist
06-07-2012, 02:20 PM
Here's some info for anyone who thinks they'd like to be upfront in weeding out guys according to whether he wants a casual relationship. http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/the-importance-of-being-upfront-with-casual-relationshipseven-if-it-means-the-possibility-of-it-ending/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BaggageReclaim-TheGuideToSingleLivingDatingRelationshipsAndOfCour seManTaming+%28Baggage+Reclaim+Relationship+Blog%2 9
(snip)In reality, casual relationships are never as under control as we would like them to be, we may both be grownups but that doesn’t mean that we’re free to do whatever we like with no regard for the impact of our actions, and ‘upfront’ is a used and abused term that people who are the ‘driver’ in the casual relationship hide behind to absolve themselves of responsibility. It’s like “I told you I didn’t want a relationship or even that I’m not that interested in you, so if you’ve hung around, even if it’s been partly down to my flip-flapping ways, it’s not my problem.”
It’s also not upfront, to be ‘upfront’ at the beginning and then keep your mouth zipped while the other party is clearly running with a different version of events but you’re not correcting it.It’s definitely not upfront to say that you don’t want a relationship and that you’re not interested, only to then have contradictory behaviour. Upfront is words and actions. If you know that someone feels more for you than you do them, instead of hanging around for all you can get while telling yourself that you were very frank and direct about your feelings and intentions, you step.
Upfront also cuts both ways though – if they say they want casual and you want more, say so, because trying to use casual relationships as a back door route to a ‘proper’ relationship will backfire spectacularly. It’s also important not to mislead the other party by pretending that you’re ‘down with it’ because the moment that you show that you’re not, they’ll use all of those times that you pretended to be OK as a get out clause for absolving themselves of responsibility.
I was told that it’s “emotionally immature” to expect someone to be upfront in the sense of being honest with the full facts, which is feeding into this notion that honesty is dead and that if you’re a grownup you can figure out who and what someone is, even if they are contrary and contradictory. Actually it’s emotionally immature to treat responsibility like a hot potato and to exploit someone else’s vulnerability and naivety. That’s not to say that we’re not responsible for ourselves, but we also have to be conscientious about ‘impact’ especially when emotions and sex are involved. If you’re thinking you probably shouldn’t mention something… it means that you probably should.
yoghurt: Those 2 paragraphs that you quoted are 2 of the best in this blog post. Saying that that’s “emotionally immature” is a sick manipulative mind game that EUM, EUW, and all-around ass-wipes use to guilt vulnerable people into falling in line with their agenda – that agenda being “have my cake, eat it too, wanna know anything else? then screw you”. (snip)
ShellyConnors
06-08-2012, 06:43 PM
I think books like this one and "The Rules" only make perfect sense if the guy is super duper into you. Time and time again these books call on women to think of guys you aren't that into and how you treat them, and see how they fall all over themselves to get to you. They want you to use that same logic and treat men you are head over heels in love with the same way. The problem is that unless the guy really really likes/loves you a whole lot, it's going to alienate him. It IS playing games if it's not real, but I think it's a really good way to check your behavior if you have a pattern of attracting great guys, then getting to be too "into" them to the point where they feel they got you too easily, or becomes too overwhelmed with your intensity that they bail.
If a guy doesn't want you to begin with, following these rules will not suddenly make him fall in love. But if you've already got his attention organically, being cool, doing your own thing and giving him the space to want and miss you isn't a bad idea.
LaurenAus
06-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Optimist that was an amazing article. I gave it to my friend and she wanted to staple it to her forehead for all men to read.
cherryblossomsinspring
06-09-2012, 07:12 AM
Yet it's funny how we all seem to make money exactly off of the primal desires of men. These men that have fun in this industry are the men we see everyday. Nothing has changed but how we have more knowledge about maximizing the benefits to our advantage for a change. Now think about the guys that go into the club wearing a suit at 1am. They are usually broke but they are using our female primal desires against us. So you see a man well dressed and think "he can provide". Now these are typically the broke ass guys in the club and women learn that this bird has built his nest with weak ass twigs. So once the birdies tell each other or learn by trial and error they avoid the obvious shitty nest builders.
Someone actually turned me on to the Gold Diggers Guide " How to get what you want without giving it up" Now I have been on he fence for awhile about purchasing this book. First the title didn't appeal to me but I felt this was just a greedy , obsessed with money type . Actually reading the reviews it's just the opposite. It's just about respecting yourself and standing up for what you want out of life. Men do it , why aren't women? So I'm now interested in picking this up when I get around to it. I'm pretty sure it's on the order of "Why men Love Bitches".
Now recently a guy contacted me ( not apart of the industry) started talking and I was enjoying a great conversation with someone that wasn't a customer or someone I ignored because they were already a know loser labelled in my phone as " do not answer". lol So I talked to him and was refreshed that he seemed so sweet. We were about to have our first meet when we had a long coversation and I pretty much got him to verbally vomit. It was horrible , everything I didn't want to hear about this guy came flooding out with speed. That's the issue with this industry people find comfort in telling you shit you wish you didn't know and they don't seem to know why they feel so comfortable. You learn to be the naked therapist so it just happens when you don't even realize it. Let's just say I will not be meeting him lol but he put a good game up for 5 days . He realized it was done before it went anywhere but he just recently sent me a message trying to start a new game. The problem is he's sitting at the table alone. He just doesn't realize that yet. Now I wasn't running a game on this guy, I just was doing more listening than talking. Asking more questions. He did get slightly upset a tad when he realized he said too much. I almost felt sorry for him because he was so raw and exposed and he wanted to attack me feeling that vulnerable.
Then it hit me that I was probably that guy ok not the content of the shit he told me but I was really open about everything. I had the same thought why play games? What's the point in that? Just be honest. Nope. I have yet to meet a guy that wasn't playing some type of game. Not one. This guy was playing his game , he just showed his hand and sadly he had jokers lol. Poor guy.
justanothercamgirl
06-09-2012, 10:02 AM
Well, being the "lady" has never been too good for me. I'm a rational human being, not an irrational ape. If you like gender stereotypes, that's good but like I said, I came from a gender neutral family.
I am a rational human being too. That being said, one can not logic away biological programming.
Let's take a look at just a small example of the 'irrational ape' inside us.
"A groundbreaking study by two University of Rochester psychologists to be published online Oct. 28 by the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology adds color—literally and figuratively—to the age-old question of what attracts men to women.
Through five psychological experiments, Andrew Elliot, professor of psychology, and Daniela Niesta, post-doctoral researcher, demonstrate that the color red makes men feel more amorous toward women. And men are unaware of the role the color plays in their attraction."
http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3268
There is a lot of things that go on 'under the surface' of our rational mind.
GlamourRouge
06-09-2012, 06:22 PM
Here's some info for anyone who thinks they'd like to be upfront in weeding out guys according to whether he wants a casual relationship. http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/the-importance-of-being-upfront-with-casual-relationshipseven-if-it-means-the-possibility-of-it-ending/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BaggageReclaim-TheGuideToSingleLivingDatingRelationshipsAndOfCour seManTaming+%28Baggage+Reclaim+Relationship+Blog%2 9
(snip)In reality, casual relationships are never as under control as we would like them to be, we may both be grownups but that doesn’t mean that we’re free to do whatever we like with no regard for the impact of our actions, and ‘upfront’ is a used and abused term that people who are the ‘driver’ in the casual relationship hide behind to absolve themselves of responsibility. It’s like “I told you I didn’t want a relationship or even that I’m not that interested in you, so if you’ve hung around, even if it’s been partly down to my flip-flapping ways, it’s not my problem.”
It’s also not upfront, to be ‘upfront’ at the beginning and then keep your mouth zipped while the other party is clearly running with a different version of events but you’re not correcting it.It’s definitely not upfront to say that you don’t want a relationship and that you’re not interested, only to then have contradictory behaviour. Upfront is words and actions. If you know that someone feels more for you than you do them, instead of hanging around for all you can get while telling yourself that you were very frank and direct about your feelings and intentions, you step.
Upfront also cuts both ways though – if they say they want casual and you want more, say so, because trying to use casual relationships as a back door route to a ‘proper’ relationship will backfire spectacularly. It’s also important not to mislead the other party by pretending that you’re ‘down with it’ because the moment that you show that you’re not, they’ll use all of those times that you pretended to be OK as a get out clause for absolving themselves of responsibility.
I was told that it’s “emotionally immature” to expect someone to be upfront in the sense of being honest with the full facts, which is feeding into this notion that honesty is dead and that if you’re a grownup you can figure out who and what someone is, even if they are contrary and contradictory. Actually it’s emotionally immature to treat responsibility like a hot potato and to exploit someone else’s vulnerability and naivety. That’s not to say that we’re not responsible for ourselves, but we also have to be conscientious about ‘impact’ especially when emotions and sex are involved. If you’re thinking you probably shouldn’t mention something… it means that you probably should.
yoghurt: Those 2 paragraphs that you quoted are 2 of the best in this blog post. Saying that that’s “emotionally immature” is a sick manipulative mind game that EUM, EUW, and all-around ass-wipes use to guilt vulnerable people into falling in line with their agenda – that agenda being “have my cake, eat it too, wanna know anything else? then screw you”. (snip)
I feel like yes, it would be better if men were upfront, but they won't be. Most that are attractive, accomplished, and have a good personality are not. That's why you have to play the Why Men Love Bitches game. And anyway, how can a man be upfront with what he wants, when he doesn't even KNOW the woman yet?? Like I said before, men think differently than women. Women go into dating generally wanting a relationship. Men go into dating wanting to get to know a girl and seeing, after awhile, if he wants to stick around. I don't think you can change that.
I really think you can get almost any man to commit if you're at your personal best. But even then, he's not going to know what he wants with you right away. And you shouldn't know what you want either, until you get to know him. If you're at your physical best (well-groomed, in shape, good style), you're accomplished or on your way to accomplishments, and if you don't have a lot of emotional baggage (hostility, passive aggressive, depressed, etc.) then he will likely commit if you have the chemistry. And seriously, if a woman is lacking in any of those areas, dating shouldn't be her first priority. Take care of yourself first. And I think a lot of women don't want to hear this.
anonymous camgirl
12-21-2012, 04:46 PM
Also the book THE RULES .. I bought but haven't read but NOT dating right now.. I have been dating for 13 straight years NOT a man in sight.. So I don't care anymore.. but yes that is my #1 GOLDEN RULE don't cook for a man in the beginning.. One guy I was dating thought I didn't know how to cook after a year!! And one day I finally surprised him and he said I thought you didn't know how to cook?? LOL
After leafing through "Why men love bitches" (dating guide for women), I started doing some of the things this book suggests. Like not answering the phone sometimes and "making other plans" when he starts taking you for granted.
I was totally shocked at how well this worked yesterday with the guy I'm dating.
He constantly makes plans like this "Lets do something tonight, I'll call you, might be too tired to go anywhere but definitely I'll call you". Then I end up sitting around and he gets to decide at the last minute if we're hanging out. So yesterday I was just like "If you might be too tired I'm making other plans, have a restful night". Well if Mr. Hard To Get And Very Aloof didn't call me about 4 times and then take the initiative to drive over to my place around 11pm. It was clearly making him crazy to think of me with another man. Meanwhile I've been trying to get a relationship started by being little miss nice. Cooking dinners and waiting patiently just doesn't work.
So anyway if you're tired of getting stepped on and you know your relationship strategies don't work, check out Why Men Love Bitches and just try it yourself.
Kellydancer
12-22-2012, 11:41 PM
I never cook for a man in the beginning but then again I am not a good cook and most of the men I dated were. Here's an interesting thing I have been doing and I am seeing this instinct upfront. I met a guy I am completely crazy about, only he's not doing much to ask me out. I asked him out a couple of times and he said yes but then he said he couldn't. So now I've been playing this game where I just talk to him and he's starting to approach me. In his case he's very shy and apparently inexperienced along with many personal issues (mostly financial)so this might cloud what is happening.
missykrissy
12-23-2012, 03:26 AM
Here's some info for anyone who thinks they'd like to be upfront in weeding out guys according to whether he wants a casual relationship. http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/the-importance-of-being-upfront-with-casual-relationshipseven-if-it-means-the-possibility-of-it-ending/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BaggageReclaim-TheGuideToSingleLivingDatingRelationshipsAndOfCour seManTaming+%28Baggage+Reclaim+Relationship+Blog%2 9
(snip)In reality, casual relationships are never as under control as we would like them to be, we may both be grownups but that doesn’t mean that we’re free to do whatever we like with no regard for the impact of our actions, and ‘upfront’ is a used and abused term that people who are the ‘driver’ in the casual relationship hide behind to absolve themselves of responsibility. It’s like “I told you I didn’t want a relationship or even that I’m not that interested in you, so if you’ve hung around, even if it’s been partly down to my flip-flapping ways, it’s not my problem.”
It’s also not upfront, to be ‘upfront’ at the beginning and then keep your mouth zipped while the other party is clearly running with a different version of events but you’re not correcting it.It’s definitely not upfront to say that you don’t want a relationship and that you’re not interested, only to then have contradictory behaviour. Upfront is words and actions. If you know that someone feels more for you than you do them, instead of hanging around for all you can get while telling yourself that you were very frank and direct about your feelings and intentions, you step.
Upfront also cuts both ways though – if they say they want casual and you want more, say so, because trying to use casual relationships as a back door route to a ‘proper’ relationship will backfire spectacularly. It’s also important not to mislead the other party by pretending that you’re ‘down with it’ because the moment that you show that you’re not, they’ll use all of those times that you pretended to be OK as a get out clause for absolving themselves of responsibility.
I was told that it’s “emotionally immature” to expect someone to be upfront in the sense of being honest with the full facts, which is feeding into this notion that honesty is dead and that if you’re a grownup you can figure out who and what someone is, even if they are contrary and contradictory. Actually it’s emotionally immature to treat responsibility like a hot potato and to exploit someone else’s vulnerability and naivety. That’s not to say that we’re not responsible for ourselves, but we also have to be conscientious about ‘impact’ especially when emotions and sex are involved. If you’re thinking you probably shouldn’t mention something… it means that you probably should.
yoghurt: Those 2 paragraphs that you quoted are 2 of the best in this blog post. Saying that that’s “emotionally immature” is a sick manipulative mind game that EUM, EUW, and all-around ass-wipes use to guilt vulnerable people into falling in line with their agenda – that agenda being “have my cake, eat it too, wanna know anything else? then screw you”. (snip)
Thanks for the article Optimist.
I love Baggage Reclaim & Natalie Lue, she has one of the best sites for women. Huge help for any woman nursing a breakup and trying to change patterns in their life.
anonymous camgirl
12-23-2012, 03:37 AM
You are absolutely right! Been hearing this for years.. Make your life the way you want it and you will attract the kind of man you want to attract. Have a shit life you will attract a shit man.. etc etc.. and men are attracted to happy women who are fulfilled and have hobbies and friends and a life of her own.. a man shouldn't be your everything.. how boring are you?
I feel like yes, it would be better if men were upfront, but they won't be. Most that are attractive, accomplished, and have a good personality are not. That's why you have to play the Why Men Love Bitches game. And anyway, how can a man be upfront with what he wants, when he doesn't even KNOW the woman yet?? Like I said before, men think differently than women. Women go into dating generally wanting a relationship. Men go into dating wanting to get to know a girl and seeing, after awhile, if he wants to stick around. I don't think you can change that.
I really think you can get almost any man to commit if you're at your personal best. But even then, he's not going to know what he wants with you right away. And you shouldn't know what you want either, until you get to know him. If you're at your physical best (well-groomed, in shape, good style), you're accomplished or on your way to accomplishments, and if you don't have a lot of emotional baggage (hostility, passive aggressive, depressed, etc.) then he will likely commit if you have the chemistry. And seriously, if a woman is lacking in any of those areas, dating shouldn't be her first priority. Take care of yourself first. And I think a lot of women don't want to hear this.
Sugarmama
01-03-2013, 10:44 PM
I have tried reading this book along with the rule they make no sense to me why you have to play games with someone. Why can't you just be upfront.
Whatever happened to treat other's how you wanted to be treated. To me you start with games it will all be games.
FiendishGyrator
01-04-2013, 01:24 AM
yeah, but I think a lot of people get scared off by others being up front.
If you're not patient enough to wait for the person who finds your up-frontness refreshing, then you're going to have to play games.
http://www.violentacres.com/archives/100/dating-is-competitive-manipulation/
Kellydancer
01-04-2013, 01:22 PM
I have been doing something contrary to this and am now reversing it again. I met a great guy last summer but so far we haven't gone out. Apparently he is interested but is inexperienced with dating (he is 50)and has a lot of issues (he owns a store that is struggling). At first I would let him approach me at events but lately I am finding myself falling into my old routine of asking him out, to some extent. I didn't make an actual date, more of a "let's get together soon" to which he agreed. However he still hasn't asked me out though he has to know that I am interested. So now instead of asking him to get together I am sort of avoiding him at events and he is approaching me. In a couple of weeks I will see him at a banquet and am going to ignore him and see what he does. When I ignore him he ALWAYS comes up to me.
Flickdreams
01-10-2013, 03:16 AM
To the doubters... You can't fight human instincts. I don't think the book is gameplaying in so much as a different role model of behaviour that you can choose to use or not.
PleasureVictim
01-22-2013, 06:28 PM
Recently I got called to visit a guy I'm speaking to (not yet dating). He lives in a different state. We had prior plans for me to come visit since I had another reason to be in town to see him. Those plans fell through, and we both decided it was best to wait until his schedule is clear since he works 2 jobs plus school. He calls on Tuesday to ask me if I can come see him that weekend, he will take the days off so we can spend time together. I knew it went against what I was supposed to do, but when someone has a tight schedule what other choice did I have? Was I supposed to say "No, I need more heads up."?
justanothercamgirl
01-22-2013, 06:45 PM
Recently I got called to visit a guy I'm speaking to (not yet dating). He lives in a different state. We had prior plans for me to come visit since I had another reason to be in town to see him. Those plans fell through, and we both decided it was best to wait until his schedule is clear since he works 2 jobs plus school. He calls on Tuesday to ask me if I can come see him that weekend, he will take the days off so we can spend time together. I knew it went against what I was supposed to do, but when someone has a tight schedule what other choice did I have? Was I supposed to say "No, I need more heads up."?
If he has taken two days off than there is no reason for you to say you need more heads up. "Why Men Love Bitches" is about making sure that you don't put someone else's need ahead of your own. Basically, "Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option."
One of the things that I am completely confused about is when in this thread that "The Rules" and "When Men Love Bitches" started to be used interchangeably for each other.
I *hated* 'The Rules' with a fiery passion. That book made no bones about the fact that it was about playing games with other people.
I *loved* 'Why Men Love Bitches'. The book is not about game playing, it is about respecting yourself and putting yourself first.