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Kylea2
09-02-2010, 01:02 PM
Post 2 of 2



As far as that horrible club owner; I said Frank would handle it because he had been doing biz with the guy for 30 years and I thought it would be best handled with him. I needed to step out of it at that point.

I understand & fully respect that... again, I know it isn't your company. I didn't argue with you when you said Frank had to decide what to do. I just wish it would have worked out different, & I still think Frank needs to look at doing contracts.

Zinaida
09-02-2010, 01:02 PM
Seriously, someone critiques your business and you respond by seizing every opportunity to disparage their looks?
It's not PERSONAL it's business. Are people forgetting that 'what you look like' is a major part of being a stripper?

malayataylor
09-02-2010, 01:17 PM
Ladies, This thread is getting too nasty. Like really nasty and PERSONAL. I vote for shutting it down.

Kylea2
09-02-2010, 01:25 PM
^^^ I don't think it's that bad... I mean honestly, some of this probably NEEDS to be talked through. If it gets resolved or even gets close, which I think it's working towards, it will be for everyone's benefit.

I will say this... Tempest is no way a size 12.

Nakita - you are still TINY (slender)... as in I still think you might be smaller than what I was at a size 2/4. I have a distinct feeling you are in the habit of looking for looser clothing that fits you more for your height.

Elvia
09-02-2010, 01:38 PM
It's not PERSONAL it's business. Are people forgetting that 'what you look like' is a major part of being a stripper?

I disagree, with the way it's being said I think it's very personal. Comparing someone to a "garbage can" is a particularly nasty way of commenting on someone's looks. It's never called for. And yes, I realize it was someone else's words, not Nikitas, but there's no reason she had to pass the message along like that unless she wanted it to remain unnecessarily hurtful. Which seems extremely unprofessional to me.

And to say "They won't pay any fees for you at all because they didn't think you were worth them. HOWEVER, I got paid on ALL the other girls." is also just being nasty, and is insinuating that the blame for him not paying is all her fault.

malayataylor
09-02-2010, 01:48 PM
I disagree, with the way it's being said I think it's very personal. Comparing someone to a "garbage can" is a particularly nasty way of commenting on someone's looks. It's never called for. And yes, I realize it was someone else's words, not Nikitas, but there's no reason she had to pass the message along like that unless she wanted it to remain unnecessarily hurtful. Which seems extremely unprofessional to me.

And to say "They won't pay any fees for you at all because they didn't think you were worth them. HOWEVER, I got paid on ALL the other girls." is also just being nasty, and is insinuating that the blame for him not paying is all her fault.

Very well said. I agree.

Kellydancer
09-02-2010, 01:55 PM
Very well said. I agree.

I also agree. We all know in this industry it's all looks based, but some comments are honest and some are just hurtful. When I was rejected and they were nice about it (things like "your look isn't what we look for", etc) I was fine with this. I realize my looks (or anyone else's) aren't all going to be universally admired. However when I got a cruel rejection it made me cry. There's no reason to insult looks, just a way to be mean.

Carly81
09-02-2010, 02:32 PM
if the club never paid Nikita for Athena, and the club charged Athena for Nikita's fee, doesn't Athena have recourse on the club?

tempest666
09-02-2010, 04:00 PM
I love you kylea!!!!! Um btw the invite is still open!!!!!!! }:D

Kylea2
09-02-2010, 04:59 PM
^^^ Wait, which invite?!

No problem hun. :-) I know I have clothes from a size 2/4 all the way up to size 14... when I was at my heaviest. You would be drowning in a size 12... & that's based on seeing you less than a month ago.

cadencetyme
09-02-2010, 05:07 PM
1.Oh common a horrible club that doesn't want to pay for a dancer will always use low blows.

2.I didn't expect anything less than personal unprofessional insults from Nikita and she delivered via "quoting" other people.

Well written non personal experiences ...to which Nikita relays the club owners think your ugly, you are fat, and your friends say you're arrogant and are suprised that you don't get attacked more.

And looks are a part of this industry...but people who want to be nasty will always find something to say which is unfair to hot-ass Athena.

Unprofessional. Glad it played out so that dancers can see who and what they would have been dealing with.

tempest666
09-02-2010, 05:43 PM
Anyone want that recipie for Greek chicken!

camille27
09-02-2010, 05:54 PM
i love greek food.
i will say again, nakita is realy really helpful sometimes. she has always been kind to me. THAT SAID, as a business owner, putting employees on blast because you feel persecuted will never end well for you. i assure you, more dancers will rethink considering your agency because they now know that if they say something about it, you will publicly tell them why they aren't worth shit.

as for athena's work ethic, there is nothing wrong with walking in the club and thinking you're the shit. hell. that's how i make money. she, i think, has every right to share her experience with traveling entertainers on a forum of dancers, many of which are interested in traveling. does the business owner need to retaliate by insulting her confidence, appearance, desire to work, etc?

none of yall have room in your pm inboxes?

Kylea2
09-02-2010, 06:00 PM
^^^ My pm box isn't full... but my e-mail is easy to get from my website as well.

If you are trying to reach Athena, she is at Burning Man... so her's may be full from a few days of not accessing it.

Elvia
09-02-2010, 06:07 PM
^^^ I think her point was that some of the things that have been mentioned publicly would have been better expressed in private.

4everresolutions
09-02-2010, 06:11 PM
Is it shameful to admit I'm entertained by all this? It's like listening to drama in the locker rooms....I know it has nothing to do with me, but I can't resist listening. Mind you, it's only entertaining because I'm a third party. If I was involved on one side or the other I'd probably be pissed.

Some thoughts:
- both parties have a right to air their sides of the story.
- online contracts can be legally binding. You can do electronic signatures for loans these days. I could see e-mails working too.
- Tempest has a nice ass and I wish my size 10 self was a skinny as her size 12 self.
- I can't image Athena as anything close to a bus. She's really, really sexy.
- Some people really shouldn't manage strip clubs. Being hot alone won't make you the most $$$.

camille27
09-02-2010, 06:43 PM
yeah, i know athena's at burning man, which is why i am defending her not-looking-like-a-school-bus since she is in the middle of nowhere with no interweb connection.

4ever, girl, it's not just you. one of the main reasons i like dancing is because of dressing room shenanigans.

malayataylor
09-02-2010, 06:50 PM
Ok .. Please please someone tell me what Burning man is? Please!

Elvia
09-02-2010, 06:56 PM
^^^ It's a yearly festival out in the desert. It's very much about creative expression, people put a lot of time into making crazy costumes and functional art for it. I'm sure someone who's been can explain it in greater detail though

malayataylor
09-02-2010, 07:02 PM
Ooohhhhhh cool! I've been meaning to ask but didn't want to ask a "stupid" question. Well Now I know!

tempest666
09-02-2010, 07:35 PM
yeah, i know athena's at burning man, which is why i am defending her not-looking-like-a-school-bus since she is in the middle of nowhere with no interweb connection.

4ever, girl, it's not just you. one of the main reasons i like dancing is because of dressing room shenanigans.

Oh snap lol. Well no wonder she hasn't texted me back. I feel like a dunce.

tempest666
09-02-2010, 07:41 PM
It's not PERSONAL it's business.

Watching that movie right now! I LOVE IT!!!!!!!! :D

Kylea2
09-02-2010, 07:58 PM
Oh snap lol. Well no wonder she hasn't texted me back. I feel like a dunce.

I totally thought you knew that or I would have told you!

Nakita Kash
09-03-2010, 07:55 AM
Kylea, I never said that I had no loyalty to you. I only said that about Athena. Yes, for a long time I had MUCH loyalty to you- BECAUSE you had huge loyalty to me. The reason I said I didn't have loyalty to Athena is because she had NONE to me. She constantly treated me like some club manager who was constantly out to screw her over. That is the actual way she talked to me EVERY TIME I CALLED HER. This is why I walked on eggshells for her. She never treated me like a peer, a friend, or anyone trying to help her out- just someone who was trying to bring her down, hold her back or screw her over. THAT is why I had ZERO loyalty to her. She was never sweet, kind, appreciative, or cordial. She always sounded like I was annoying when I called. I felt like I was begging her to talk to me. She always rushed me off the phone, told me she had so many better things going on than sit on the phone or let alone, work with me! I have no loyalty to girls that treat me that way.

You had been a friend & loyal worker. I never wanted things to go bad for you. I always did what I could to help you over anyone else. I never saw you as a problem, I just started realizing that the problems you had on the road were going to affect your trust and our relationship. And they did.


Comparing someone to a "garbage can"

When did I say that?

And to say "They won't pay any fees for you at all because they didn't think you were worth them. HOWEVER, I got paid on ALL the other girls." is also just being nasty, and is insinuating that the blame for him not paying is all her fault.

Well, if the shoe fits? Of course its partly my fault. I didn't have her send updated pics- but I trusted her. But mostly, its the club owners fault. I just couldn't stand anyone thinking that it was all my fault. Really, its not


i assure you, more dancers will rethink considering your agency because they now know that if they say something about it, you will publicly tell them why they aren't worth shit.

Only if they tell me that I am not worth shit first.

as for athena's work ethic, there is nothing wrong with walking in the club and thinking you're the shit.

I agree! I have some shy & insecure girls who don't make nearly as much $$$ as this girl. I tried to explain that to the club owner. They saw her on the floor making $$. They even admitted that the custies liked her.

i think, has every right to share her experience with traveling entertainers on a forum of dancers, many of which are interested in traveling.

Of course she does. But again, all sides need to be heard. I wish the club owner would get on here and tell everyone why they didn't want to pay for her, why they pocketed her $, and why they called her a 'school bus'. Oh, and most importantly- why they fired one of their hardest working girls?

camille27
09-03-2010, 01:21 PM
i can answer that! because most strip club management are amateurs who aren't worth shit. monkeys could run strip clubs better than most managers.

notice how the barback, suddenly becomes the bouncer, and then soon enough, becomes a shift manager. uhhh, what? how does that happen? it's not a real shock that they don't know what they're doing. i can't even take management seriously at this point.

i am in favor of naming names of this club so that women can avoid it. if we are going to air out all our grievances, let's get specifics. names, locations, etc.

camille27
09-03-2010, 01:24 PM
lmao i am having too much fun in this thread. let me stop.

Kellydancer
09-03-2010, 01:37 PM
i can answer that! because most strip club management are amateurs who aren't worth shit. monkeys could run strip clubs better than most managers.

notice how the barback, suddenly becomes the bouncer, and then soon enough, becomes a shift manager. uhhh, what? how does that happen? it's not a real shock that they don't know what they're doing. i can't even take management seriously at this point.

i am in favor of naming names of this club so that women can avoid it. if we are going to air out all our grievances, let's get specifics. names, locations, etc.

Yes. Everyone should name people and clubs that do things like this. Name the clubs that routinely overlook quality women (former dancers or not) for management to hire some dumbass guy who only got into the business to look at naked women.

Kylea2
09-03-2010, 02:05 PM
Kylea, I never said that I had no loyalty to you. I only said that about Athena. Yes, for a long time I had MUCH loyalty to you- BECAUSE you had huge loyalty to me. The reason I said I didn't have loyalty to Athena is because she had NONE to me. She constantly treated me like some club manager who was constantly out to screw her over. That is the actual way she talked to me EVERY TIME I CALLED HER. This is why I walked on eggshells for her. She never treated me like a peer, a friend, or anyone trying to help her out- just someone who was trying to bring her down, hold her back or screw her over. THAT is why I had ZERO loyalty to her. She was never sweet, kind, appreciative, or cordial. She always sounded like I was annoying when I called. I felt like I was begging her to talk to me. She always rushed me off the phone, told me she had so many better things going on than sit on the phone or let alone, work with me! I have no loyalty to girls that treat me that way.

You had been a friend & loyal worker. I never wanted things to go bad for you. I always did what I could to help you over anyone else. I never saw you as a problem, I just started realizing that the problems you had on the road were going to affect your trust and our relationship. And they did.


I hope eventually everything can be mended between us, I still see you as a friend... but obviously was getting nervous because of the work stuff. Maybe if you'd had final decision on more things then stuff would have been different? Or if we'd ever actually hung out more 1-on-1?

Do let me know if Frank re-thinks things & decides to do contracts, I think personally that would ease my mind a lot.



Of course she does. But again, all sides need to be heard. I wish the club owner would get on here and tell everyone why they didn't want to pay for her, why they pocketed her $, and why they called her a 'school bus'. Oh, and most importantly- why they fired one of their hardest working girls?

I agree!

Athena is no slouch at all. I've witnessed that she is a really hard worker, so it irritates me that she would have been treated poorly by anyone.

Elvia
09-03-2010, 02:55 PM
Comparing someone to a "garbage can"

"When did I say that?"

Oh, I'm sorry, what was it you compared her to? A bus? Oh, well in that case that's not offensive or uncalled for at all :eyeroll:

Don't be deliberately thick. You know the point still stands. You didn't have to pass that on. You did it to be deliberately mean, and for no other reason. Extremely unprofessional. Learn to control your emotions. No one said you "weren't shit." Learn to handle complaints about your business in a more appropriate way. It's not by saying "oh yeah? well so-and-so called school bus!" like you're in middle school.

tempest666
09-03-2010, 03:28 PM
I just made some Greek chicken courtesy of the cook that I allegedly diddled. After I sucked Gothic aliens cock

420bUnNy
09-05-2010, 04:35 AM
Nothing is legally binding unless signed. It can help you in court....but I can make an email say anything and look like you sent it....so it IS NOT A BINDING CONTRACT


E-mails can indeed be legal documents. There are a variety of "e-signatures" that can be and are recognized as such.


Examples:

I am very familiar with a case of someone who quit his job in anger via an e-mail to his boss. He then claimed in court that the e-mail was not a legal letter of resignation. He lost.

Some Web sites will require you to signify your agreement to abide by terms and conditions by typing your name in a box before you hit "Submit."

Banks and other financial institutions will often have you type the last 4 digits of your SSN to authorize a transfer of funds.

E-bay bids are binding contracts.

Kylea2
09-05-2010, 11:00 AM
/\ /\ /\

1) Not all terms were given to the entertainers via email...often details were via phone.

2) Entertainers don't have evidence of any sort of agreement (e-mail/contract) between the clubs & the agency... so its all third party anyhow.

malayataylor
09-05-2010, 04:38 PM
Hey emails can be used against you in court. I've seen it happen.

420bUnNy
09-05-2010, 05:43 PM
/\ /\ /\

1) Not all terms were given to the entertainers via email...often details were via phone.

2) Entertainers don't have evidence of any sort of agreement (e-mail/contract) between the clubs & the agency... so its all third party anyhow.

^What subpoenas are for.

Kylea2
09-05-2010, 06:19 PM
Am I missing something? How are you going to subpoena phone conversations? Subpoena the agent? We don't know how much that would help

Contracts signed signed by all parties would help a lot - & clarify all terms in advance.

420bUnNy
09-05-2010, 07:20 PM
Am I missing something? How are you going to subpoena phone conversations? Subpoena the agent? We don't know how much that would help

Contracts signed signed by all parties would help a lot - & clarify all terms in advance.

Not that anyone's going to go so far in this situation, but relevant phone and e-mail and computer records, etc. must be turned over upon request during pre-trial discovery. In most cases you don't know how much it will help--until you make the request. If the other party resists, a subpoena for documents or witness testimony may be the next step.

And you're soo right Kylea! I'd get EVERYTHING in writing in advance!

Elvia
09-05-2010, 07:21 PM
^^^ A phone record doesn't do much to prove what was said in a conversation. Unless you mean actual tape recorded conversations...but I doubt that's happening.

420bUnNy
09-05-2010, 07:53 PM
^^^ A phone record doesn't do much to prove what was said in a conversation. Unless you mean actual tape recorded conversations...but I doubt that's happening.

It's helpful to have a detailed chronological record of times, dates, locations and phone calls. It's always a very good idea to jot down notes after every "business" phone call so you have a comprehensive log of who said what, and when.

Being better prepared and organized than an adversary --or even just appearing that way-- is often convincing enough to swing things in your favor very early on.

Elvia
09-05-2010, 07:56 PM
^^^ That's all useful information, but I think the point was that there needs to be a better way for everyone to keep track of what the expectations are of everyone involved. Which is exactly what contracts are for.

pixierocksonthepole
09-05-2010, 09:22 PM
It is kinda strange because when you sign things with an electronic signature usually its on a very secure website...not in an email. I know in many cases an email would count as a contract, but not all.

bluexxxtasy
09-05-2010, 09:32 PM
i am missing something...(scrolling up) convo went from where it was to legal stuff..lol let me catch up

tempest666
09-06-2010, 01:24 AM
^^^^^I supposedly diddled the cook at Tampa gold club and am mentally unstable and a size 12.
:D

pixierocksonthepole
09-06-2010, 07:17 AM
You dirty lady you ;) lol

SnuffleUffleGrass
09-06-2010, 08:10 AM
Glad you posted this. I figured something was up with her due to her posting style on this board. I also agree agents are useless, & on top of that if a club is using an agency, it's usually not for good reasons.
ETA- I was really late to this thread, if it's going to be closed, I advise Nikita to go the way of Janet on this board and stop posting.

tempest666
09-06-2010, 10:14 AM
You dirty lady you ;) lol

I talked to him. While he was flattered by the allegations, he is more interested in his new cookie business! I can hardly wait to see my buddy! :D

Elvia
09-06-2010, 03:11 PM
i am missing something...(scrolling up) convo went from where it was to legal stuff..lol let me catch up

Some people are complaining that there were not contracts set up where they would have expected them to be. The Nikita said that wasn't a problem because agreements made via email are still legally binding. Some people feel that is not sufficient and that there should be contracts.

pixierocksonthepole
09-06-2010, 03:21 PM
^^^ Yeah There should be. Claiming that a contract in an email is what is legally binding in this kind of situation just seems shady.

she sells sanctuary
09-07-2010, 03:40 PM
1. by all accounts i've seen on the board, athena seems like an amazing hustler and also pretty damned ballsy. a lot of managers aren't professional or intelligent about how to run a club. instead, they want to run a club so they can have dancers kiss their asses the way we might kiss a custies ass when we're hustling him. and it's always easiest to insult a woman's looks rather than admit that you're a pussy who wants your ass kissed. i suspect that athena probably looked just fine, the management just didn't like her, so they made up something about her appearance as their excuse.

2. how someone looks at their size and what size they wear are not the same. my mom's been a size 2-4 my whole life, and for most of that time she was a damn fat 2-4. she had no muscle tone and just looked gooey. meanwhile, when i was a 2-4, i looked too lean, because i'm built differently from her. we're about the same height, but a tall person will look very different from a short person even when they've got the same clothes size.

Kylea2
09-07-2010, 04:15 PM
^^^ I'd seen Athena the same few months that all of this was going on. She was the first to admit she'd put on weight between the last time I'd seen her & when I saw her over the summer... she'd taken a lot of time off work in Austin. However, she is also amazing about working out! She has a lot of devotion to the gym & will go bike riding a few hours a day - so I know she loses weight quickly too. Literally within a week I could tell she'd lost weight. She's certainly not a "school bus"... but you are right - club owners will say whatever they want - especially if they aren't experienced. I think what it really is about is the fact that she stood up for herself regarding the "Independent Contractor" laws, & they probably didn't like that very much.

Athenathefabulous
09-07-2010, 11:27 PM
Wow ok shit has definitely hit the fan in my absense. I'll have to type out a detailed response when I get access to a computer as opposed to my iPhone. I'm
still on the road back from burning man.

And for the record te allegations that I am a "schoolbus" are fucking ridiculos. I was definitely not the thickest girl at that club. Ibwas pretty middle f the road as far as physique goes. Also I think this "schoolbus" spent more time in the LD room than most of
the "ferarris" working there. So I guess the customers didn't find me too physically repulsive. Also i was hired at babydolls when I was thicker than at this club with no problem or disrespect, and babydolls is far better known for having hot girls than this po-dunk club. I guess I'll post a pic and you guys can decide if a schoolbus is a fair comparison. Whoever came up with that, be it nakita or the club owners, obviously intended it to be nasty.

But anyway I'll post more in a day or two when I get access to a computer.