View Full Version : Just got out of jail
Autumn Lily
10-04-2010, 11:02 PM
100% wrong. If you actually are a retired police supervisor, you would know that the U.S. Court of Appeals found that police have no obligation to protect anyone who isn't in their custody.Try reading the decision of Warren v. District of Columbia. The primary function of police officers is to raise revenue for their department and city/municipality through the enforcement of many unconstitutional laws.
Cops are reactive, not proactive. Unless Officer Pork Chop is driving down the street and actually sees a real crime (meaning there is a victim) in progress, cops do not stop crime. They REACT to crimes. Make no mistake, To Protect and Serve is just a catchy motto designed to make people feel better while they are being robbed by every facet of government.
Many cops like to whine that "they don't make the laws, they just enforce them". Thats akin to officers of the Gestapo saying "they were just doing their jobs" while slaughtering people and violating basic civil liberties.
People don't become cops because they have a genuine concern for the well being of society, they become cops to feel powerful and make up for insecurities in other areas of their lives.
You claimed you were a cop for more than 20 years, yet you still lack a basic understanding of law. Is the brainwashing you received at the academy still plaguing you after retirement, or do you just refuse to admit the basic truth that police are the enemy of freedom?
http://i.imgur.com/WN2Vv.jpg
Welcome to StripperWeb!
TarsTone
10-05-2010, 03:48 AM
Cops are reactive, not proactive. Unless Officer Pork Chop is driving down the street and actually sees a real crime (meaning there is a victim) in progress, cops do not stop crime. They REACT to crimes.
Dag nab it, you're right!!
You would think these asshole shit fucking cops would use their psychic powers to predict crimes before they've been committed. Instead, they operate based on evidence and other fascist nonsense!
Contrast that with places with real freedom where laws and other Nazi horseshit mean nothing, and cops actually protect you by arresting you based on what they guess you might want to do. Fuck man, why couldn't I had been born in North Korea??
p.s. I HATE typing with this tinfoil hat on. How do you manage to keep yours on?
TarsTone
10-05-2010, 03:54 AM
There are bad, corrupt, evil cops. There are bad, corrupt, evil priests doctors pastry chefs gym teachers hair colorists. Painting an entire group with the same brush is stupid.
There is no question that some cops are douche bags. But I've personally met more asshole doctors than I've met asshole cops. And that doesn't make me hate medical science!
What's funny is that the people who profess to hate ALL cops are often the first ones to express outrage if any other group is blindly generalized the same way.
Yes,I am VERY mad at myself for letting shit get this far out of control...b/c I am paying for it. NEVER AGAIN!!
Call it a learning experience then. ;)
brainwrek
10-05-2010, 09:13 AM
Strong second post. If the mods/members wanna put up with your idiotic ramblings, as an intro no less, that's up to them. Good luck.
...
Idiotic ramblings? Why not prove me the fool by showing evidence contrary to what I said in my initial post?
...
Fact: Police have no obligation to protect anyone.
Fact: Police and municipalities rely heavily on revenue raised through enforcement of unconstitutional laws.
Fact: cops are defacto revenue agents for their respective jurisdictions.
No matter how much you may dislike the truth, it doesn't change it.
_Avery_
10-05-2010, 10:59 AM
Strong second post. If the mods/members wanna put up with your idiotic ramblings, as an intro no less, that's up to them. Good luck.
This is something I'm really getting sick of seeing on this site.
Everyone wanting to call the mods out on new members for saying something they don't agree with...or whatever.
Their first post wasn't offensive, didn't attack anyone, didn't insult anyone.
In fact, YOU were the one to start with the name calling.
So, because you have a higher post count it's okay to start calling names?
People have to kiss ass around here before they're allowed to post their opinions?
Because you don't agree with certain remarks/opinions/thoughts you think someone should instantly get banned?
I'm sick of it. I see it more and more on here. People jumping all over new members. For posting what they choose to post. Who gives a shit what someone's first post is? Since when is there a rule that a first, or second, or third post has to be a certain something??
Some people take these post counts too seriously.
It's sad, especially since EVERYONE had to start out with "1 post".
/rant!
This is something I'm really getting sick of seeing on this site.
Everyone wanting to call the mods out on new members for saying something they don't agree with...or whatever.
Their first post wasn't offensive, didn't attack anyone, didn't insult anyone.
It was VERY insulting to law enforcement, anyone who has ever been in law enforcement, or works with, and has respect for those of the thin blue line. You're damn right it was insulting...
Ranting snipped.
It's sad, especially since EVERYONE had to start out with "1 post".
If the first post is to troll and insult, inflame, etc, and that's OK with mods and members, no skin off my ass. Per usual, it's ok to insult one group (in this case law enforcement) but not so Ok when I call them a D-bag for doing it. And you complain of a double standard? ::)
brainwrek
10-05-2010, 11:16 AM
Nothing about my post was insulting. It was completely factually accurate. Nothing about my post was trolling or flaming. As I said before, why not just prove me wrong with evidence to the contrary?
Just because you dont like it Will, doesn't make it untrue.
You talk to cops about nutrition, stop acting like you are one, or even worse, acting offended on behalf of them.
_Avery_
10-05-2010, 11:18 AM
It was VERY insulting to law enforcement, anyone who has ever been in law enforcement, or works with, and has respect for those of the thin blue line. You're damn right it was insulting. If you can't see that, you need to work on reading comprehension skills.
Ranting snipped.
If the first post is to troll and insult, inflame, etc, and that's OK with mods and members, no skin off my ass. Per usual, it's ok to insult one group (in this case law enforcement) but not so Ok when I call them a D-bag for doing it. And you complain of a double standard? ::)
Should I call you a waaaambulance? :O
It's "sooo insulting", yet you attack me for ranting about what I see more and more of on here about people with higher post counts attacking those with fewer because they don't agree with something they said.
You have nothing to say to the person who you "find so insulting", yet wanna jump all over me....
People get insulted all the damn time on here.
A lot of the times, it's people with a higher post count. Yet, every kisses their ass.
It just looks like you're a little more sensitive to this post than others.
It's "sooo insulting", yet you attack me
Now who's being sensitive? You were not attacked, you were responded to. You said no insults had been made, I disagree...Simple as that. ;)
_Avery_
10-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Now who's being sensitive? You were not attacked, you were responded to. You said no insults had been made, I disagree...Simple as that. ;)
And I disagree that I wasn't attacked.
"you need to work on your reading comprehensive skills"
Sorry, but to me, that comes off as rude.
and "waambulance"?
Really? Who the hell says that?? lol :D
And I disagree that I wasn't attacked.
"you need to work on your reading comprehensive skills"
Sorry, but to me, that comes off as rude.
It was, but it's far from an attack, and was in response to...oh never mind. /:O
A lot of people have very low opinion of cops, if you don't like that tough shit. I believe most cops are good and join the force out of a desire to help, where they ALL fail is that they will ALWAYS protect and stand by the bad cops no matter what they do. It's like the Catholic church actually, it doesn't matter how much good you've done if you'll always protect all the evil ones.
jester214
10-05-2010, 12:28 PM
100% wrong. If you actually are a retired police supervisor, you would know that the U.S. Court of Appeals found that police have no obligation to protect anyone who isn't in their custody.Try reading the decision of Warren v. District of Columbia. The primary function of police officers is to raise revenue for their department and city/municipality through the enforcement of many unconstitutional laws.
Cops are reactive, not proactive. Unless Officer Pork Chop is driving down the street and actually sees a real crime (meaning there is a victim) in progress, cops do not stop crime. They REACT to crimes. Make no mistake, To Protect and Serve is just a catchy motto designed to make people feel better while they are being robbed by every facet of government.
Many cops like to whine that "they don't make the laws, they just enforce them". Thats akin to officers of the Gestapo saying "they were just doing their jobs" while slaughtering people and violating basic civil liberties.
People don't become cops because they have a genuine concern for the well being of society, they become cops to feel powerful and make up for insecurities in other areas of their lives.
You claimed you were a cop for more than 20 years, yet you still lack a basic understanding of law. Is the brainwashing you received at the academy still plaguing you after retirement, or do you just refuse to admit the basic truth that police are the enemy of freedom?
For starters you are totally taking Warren v. D.C. out of context. That was to protect every victim of a crime from sueing the police for failing to prevent it. They have no LEGAL obligation to protect individuals, but that's still part of their job. Lets also keep in mind that's a circuit court not SCOTUS.
Go look at the money brought in by police for tickets and court fees then compare that to yearly budgets. In most places you're gonna be looking at less than 1% of the operating costs. That's NOTHING.
You say cops don't prevent crimes? Have you ever considered that by their mere presence, they prevent them? Someone is going to break into your car, or rob the next person that walks by... Then a cop drives up and they decide they'll just go home for the evening? You don't call that preventive?
Some people become cops for power, some do it cause their dad do it, some do it to help people... The same can be said of Doctors, Lawyers, Soldiers, Nurses etc. Go ask a room for of first year Law Students why they got into the job. Then see where they end up in 5 years. You'll understand.
The comparison of Cops to Gestapo is ludicrous. Go spend some time in China or Syria, or hell Mexico if you want to see cops that remotely compare to Gestapo.
Lastly, you said this post wasn't insulting. Though you've insulted all police officers and implied that he was lieing about being a retired cop. I say calling someone a liar is pretty insulting.
Djoser
10-05-2010, 02:50 PM
OK everyone chill out. The OP did not insult all police. The OP has apparently learned her lesson.
I tried to clean this up a bit. We'll see how it goes, I don't like closing threads but I don't like a lot of drama either.
Djoser
10-05-2010, 03:02 PM
It's a good thing there are cops, otherwise you wouldn't be able to walk down the street in most cities. Actually, there wouldn't be any cities, they'd have been looted and burned to the ground. Try walking down the street in a major city with your beautiful wife and no cops are anywhere near, and everyone knows it.
We don't just need Law, we also need Order, or civilization would come crashing down in a hurry. That's where the cops come in. And as bad as some police can be in the USA sometimes, they are indeed a lot worse in Mexico, China, Iran, etc., etc.
Also, driving is not a right, it is a privilege.
OTOH
Some police like telling people what to do a little too much. Some cops love kicking the asses of people they are arresting--I have run into one of those, after he was run out of service for sexual harassment. I won that little confrontation, but if he had still been in uniform, I would have lost it badly and gone to jail, after he beat shit out of me in the handcuffs his fellow cops put on me for him. He liked doing that.
Then there's the corrupt cops, not just brutal and/or arbitrary in enforcement of which laws to enforce when; but corrupt. Taking bribes from dealers, murderers, thieves; selling the drugs they confiscated; getting free sex from the prostitutes they allow on their turf, etc., etc.--and there's a lot of them.
And I never bought into that trite excuse 'We don't make the laws, we just enforce them.' If they were really enforcing all the laws on the books, you would not be able to get oral sex from your own wife, in your own living room, in about half the states in the union. They are enforcing the laws their supervisors tell them to, for the most part.
And many of those laws are heritage of our glorious, uptight Puritan ancestors, fleeing persecution so they could be free to persecute anyone else who didn't live exactly the way they did.
It can be really, really tough to live in some areas of the country without being able to drive, whether you can't afford insurance, or your car is an old piece of shit that won't start. It can be done, though.
Trying to operate a business without being able to drive at any time you need to can be impossible. I had a lot of trouble with this when I was an architectural illustrator in Texas and Florida.
So I know that a lot of people without insurance, or having some problem with their license, can indeed be very safe drivers! I was, I didn't want to go to jail or pay hundreds in fines, I just wanted to go pick up or drop off the work so I could pay rent that month and maybe fix my car.
But then there are the scum who are not trying to run a business or get diapers for their baby. They are out getting drunk and don't care which way they are driving on that one way ramp over the highway bridge. One of those almost killed me on my motorcycle a few years ago in Texas. He was an illegal alien with three prior hit and run/DWIs!!!
The cops that handled that situation were cool as hell, thank all the gods they were there.
This is all my opinion, there is room for lots of different opinions here.
A lot of people have very low opinion of cops,
A lot of people have a very low opinion of strippers, due mostly, to ignorance, and or believing the stereotypes about them they think they know, when they don't.
AngelKing
10-05-2010, 03:14 PM
I've lived in places where there wasn't much law, and believe me, it's better to have even half decent law enforcement than none at all. I think a lot of people don't realize how good we have it in North America in general. Living and traveling in destitute violent countries really resets your appreciation level for the good things that we take for granted.
Getting mistreated by a cop or even getting cracked in the head by one is an unfortunate situation (and yes, it's happened to me, and yes I probably deserved it), but the fact that we can even post online about it without disappearing the next day is a luxury that we should all appreciate.
DesuvsDeath
10-05-2010, 03:26 PM
There are good police officers and bad police officers ... but I sure the fuck wouldn't want to live without any at all.
Does it suck to get arrested for something like a suspended license or an old traffic ticket... sure. But breaking the law is breaking the law.
Sometimes you'll get away with going 10 mph over the limit or driving with no insurance... and sometimes you won't. But getting caught/ticketed/arrested is part of the risk you take by breaking the law, and you really can't blame anyone but yourself.
Blaming police for you getting arrested for breaking the law is like blaming your teacher for failing you for not turning in any homework.
brainwrek
10-05-2010, 04:28 PM
Also, driving is not a right, it is a privilege.
Sure about that?
"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.
"The right to travel, to go from place to place as the means of transportation permit, is a natural right" Shactman v Dulles
Many courts have found that a drivers license is only needed when engaged in commerce, not merely from going from point A to point B. The legal definition of "driver" is vastly different from the laymens meaning of it.
Think of it this way.... Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution states that Congress may spend YOUR tax money in order to build postal roads (roads on which postal services travel).
If your money was used to build said road, how could you NOT have a right to use that road?
Do you really think so little of people that without government agents around, society would go to hell in a matter of days?
Given the number of police vs the general population, your argument doesnt make sense. There are between 800,000 and 900,000 police officers in the U.S. (thats local, state, and federal)
Do you really think 900,000 cops are simply holding back a population of over 300,000,000 from going crazy and burning society to the ground?
Seriously?
Elvia
10-05-2010, 04:39 PM
^^^ If it's an absolute "right" then I guess that means you feel that we should just allow habitual drunk drivers to carry on. Even if it interrupts other peoples right to, say, go on living. Or maybe you're oversimplifying things a bit?
brainwrek
10-05-2010, 04:54 PM
^^^ If it's an absolute "right" then I guess that means you feel that we should just allow habitual drunk drivers to carry on. Even if it interrupts other peoples right to, say, go on living. Or maybe you're oversimplifying things a bit?
Naturally if a person drives drunk and injures/kills someone, they should be punished and that punishment should be as harsh as possible.
That being said, if someone drives drunk and makes it home fine, what are they guilty of? Who did they injure? What rights of other people did they violate?
I'm not condoning drunk driving, just pointing out the absurdity if arresting/trying/convicting people of a victimless crime. We dont punish people for what MIGHT happen, we punish them for actually hurting/killing someone.
At least in a free country anyways..... but definitely not here in the U.S.
Elvia
10-05-2010, 05:04 PM
Naturally if a person drives drunk and injures/kills someone, they should be punished and that punishment should be as harsh as possible.
That being said, if someone drives drunk and makes it home fine, what are they guilty of? Who did they injure? What rights of other people did they violate?
I'm not condoning drunk driving, just pointing out the absurdity if arresting/trying/convicting people of a victimless crime. We dont punish people for what MIGHT happen, we punish them for actually hurting/killing someone.
At least in a free country anyways..... but definitely not here in the U.S.
So you're suggesting we let people go on doing extremely dangerous illegal things until they actually do kill someone or cause permanent damage? I guess we should all just be running red lights all the time too. After all, it's not a problem until the damage is done, right?
I know someone who used to drive home drunk from the club quite regularly. It took getting arrested and having his license revoked to make him realize what a stupid thing that was. But I guess you'd rather we just let him carry on until someone died?
Have you ever lost a loved one to a drunk driver? I have. Sure would have been great if that drunk bitch had been pulled over earlier and taken to jail for the night.
brainwrek
10-05-2010, 06:04 PM
So you're suggesting we let people go on doing extremely dangerous illegal things until they actually do kill someone or cause permanent damage? I guess we should all just be running red lights all the time too. After all, it's not a problem until the damage is done, right?
I know someone who used to drive home drunk from the club quite regularly. It took getting arrested and having his license revoked to make him realize what a stupid thing that was. But I guess you'd rather we just let him carry on until someone died?
Have you ever lost a loved one to a drunk driver? I have. Sure would have been great if that drunk bitch had been pulled over earlier and taken to jail for the night.
You can sit here and fantasize about all the what if's in your head, but the bottom line is she wasnt pulled over, you lost a loved one, and the person is being punished accordingly right? Crime committed, punishment enforced. Thats the way the system is supposed to work.
I dont run red lights during high traffic times because a light tells me to stop, I stop because its common sense that if there are cars coming, I would get hit. That being said, are you one of those few precious saints who has never run a red light? Ever went 1 mph over the speed limit? How about 10? Never drove while being impaired by anything?
Do you think you should have received a multi hundred dollar fine for doing so?
Golden_Rule
10-05-2010, 09:08 PM
100% wrong.
Wow, Dude. Just wow! {LOL}
You have to understand that the vast majority of law enforcement types, particularly big city cops like myself, find this "Philadelphia lawyer" stuff you're spouting hysterically funny. The second anyone yanks out words like "police state" and "gestapo" to define U.S. style policing immediately identifies them as someone totally clueless and with a well defined political agenda. I don't mean liberal. Hey, my social politics are pretty liberal [I think marijuana and prostitution ought to be legal, I wanted a public option in the health care program, I voted for Obama... yadda, yadda, yadda]. No, the agenda I reference is something else entirely, but we'll leave that for another convo.
Hey, this is the good ol' U.S. of A. and while I think your train has jumped its tracks I will never say you don't have a right to your opinion. Just don't expect it to mean all that much to me. :)
Oh, and the "Officer Pork Chop" comment. Priceless. Simply priceless.
If you care at all to hear a little truth, this former cop took the job because after trying it out for two years on NPR it was becoming obvious to me I wasn't going to be a young Keith Olbermann. Though I tried hard enough. So while I had taken the civil service test originally as simply a challenge to see how well I would do, when I scored particularly well I looked at my options in the economy of the very early 80's [very similar to what we are experiencing now but with double digit unemployment, inflation and interest rates to boot] and decided a career change was in order.
I didn't take it for the badge and the gun. I took it because I wanted a career, medical insurance and a pension didn't seem like a bad idea either. I like people [still do] and helping folks while getting what I needed to move out of my mother's house at 23 and start a life of my own didn't seem like a bad idea. Turns out I was pretty good at it. So much the better. :) As a whole, mine is not such an unusual story as far as how and why young people become police officers.
So thanks for the chuckle. I am seriously going to print your post out and bring it into the next PBA meeting. Its just too good not to share. :)
lmao, that's too funny. :D
I agree. In its irony it is acutely funny. Though not for the reasons the OP probably intended. :)
jester214
10-05-2010, 09:18 PM
Sure about that?
"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.
"The right to travel, to go from place to place as the means of transportation permit, is a natural right" Shactman v Dulles
Many courts have found that a drivers license is only needed when engaged in commerce, not merely from going from point A to point B. The legal definition of "driver" is vastly different from the laymens meaning of it.
Think of it this way.... Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution states that Congress may spend YOUR tax money in order to build postal roads (roads on which postal services travel).
If your money was used to build said road, how could you NOT have a right to use that road?
Do you really think so little of people that without government agents around, society would go to hell in a matter of days?
Given the number of police vs the general population, your argument doesnt make sense. There are between 800,000 and 900,000 police officers in the U.S. (thats local, state, and federal)
Do you really think 900,000 cops are simply holding back a population of over 300,000,000 from going crazy and burning society to the ground?
Seriously?
I read your two court decisions and yet I don't see the world "drive"? I see travel, I see transport, but not drive? Again you're twisting legal decisisons to fit what you want. Thompson vs. Smith was a case about two parties arguing over property use. Shactman v Dulles was a passport argument from 1955?
If as you hold driving was a right, then long ago the courts would have made the DMV unconstitutional.
To answer your other question though, no I don't think 900K cops are holding back the entire population from destroying society.
But I think it is obvious that if there were no cops at all, a small portion of the population would inflict rampant damage upon society.
jester214
10-05-2010, 09:21 PM
Naturally if a person drives drunk and injures/kills someone, they should be punished and that punishment should be as harsh as possible.
That being said, if someone drives drunk and makes it home fine, what are they guilty of? Who did they injure? What rights of other people did they violate?
I'm not condoning drunk driving, just pointing out the absurdity if arresting/trying/convicting people of a victimless crime. We dont punish people for what MIGHT happen, we punish them for actually hurting/killing someone.
At least in a free country anyways..... but definitely not here in the U.S.
Oh, and could you take a moment and give me an example of a country YOU consider to be "free"? Just satiate my curiousity.
Golden_Rule
10-05-2010, 09:34 PM
There is an old adage about debating with those under the influence or fools I may be breaking with this post but I am going to gamble on you being neither. I will probably wind up regretting this but... here goes.
Fact: Police have no obligation to protect anyone.
Please, kindly, show me where anyone - particularly myself - stated anything about obligation. "To Protect and Serve" is a mission statement. Mission statements define intent, not obligation.
Fact: Police and municipalities rely heavily on revenue raised through enforcement of unconstitutional laws.
Fact: cops are defacto revenue agents for their respective jurisdictions.
Legislatures create laws. The executive branch enacts, creates policy and enforces. The judiciary reviews. Over simplified but generally correct.
The police, as part of the executive branch, enforces. We have no more say than the average citizen, using the power of our personal vote on election days, to effect the creation of law by supporting candidates whose ideas as to what laws to create, or repeal, match our own. The cop on the beats ability to effect policy is extremely limited. "Police discretion" is his/hers only tool and that is being reduced via departmental policy, rules and regs and codified law on almost a daily basis.
The laws are subjected to judicial review and just about all long established law has passed muster with the courts. New laws start running the judicial gauntlet almost at the moment they are passed into law. If you have issue with that take it up with the judiciary, not the police.
That government relies ever more heavily on revenue raised via fines is not lost on those in the policing fields. In general we hate it. We consider ourselves protectors of the public peace, not tax agents.
If you want to change the fact that local and state governments are turning police officers into tax agents support candidates that would change this policy. Most of us do.
No matter how much you may dislike the truth, it doesn't change it.
Exactly and precisely what I would suggest to you.
Sure about that?
"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.
"The right to travel, to go from place to place as the means of transportation permit, is a natural right" Shactman v Dulles
You tipped your hand.
This is the agenda I was referencing in my original post in response to you.
If I were to ask you whether you believe the government has a right to tax income, what you believe regarding your ability to bring a party into court to represent you other than a member of the bar duly recognized by the court to represent individuals not representing themselves, etc, would out your actual politics and the agenda I earlier referenced.
wishing well...
Golden_Rule
10-05-2010, 09:39 PM
Their first post wasn't offensive, didn't attack anyone, didn't insult anyone.
???????????
While I didn't take offense [it is incredibly hard to get under my skin] you don't think addressing a post to someone who identified himself as a retired police officer with a post that references police as "gestapo" and "officer Pork Chop" isn't a deliberate attempt at being offensive?
If I sent a post to a dancer using offensive terms to reference that career choice would you consider it an attempt to be offensive?
You really need to try and see things from ALL perspectives... coins have two sides you know.
_Avery_
10-06-2010, 12:50 AM
???????????
While I didn't take offense [it is incredibly hard to get under my skin] you don't think addressing a post to someone who identified himself as a retired police officer with a post that references police as "gestapo" and "officer Pork Chop" isn't a deliberate attempt at being offensive?
If I sent a post to a dancer using offensive terms to reference that career choice would you consider it an attempt to be offensive?
.
When I read it, it didn't sound like they were addressing you when they said "officer Pork Chop".
Just thought the term sounded funny, never heard that. :P
As far as what people wanna call strippers....I've been called many things.
(Whore, stripper, slut, genital grinder..lol, abused...etc, etc...)
Some girls even get offended at the term "stripper", (which I'll never understand).
Doesn't bother me though.
I guess it's all in the context, or who it's coming from.
Luckily, I think I have a pretty good sense of humor. I just find certain things funny.
Some things people are offended by, I find funny. *shrugs*
Not meaning to be rude, just my sense of humor I guess.
Like I've said before, I try not to let words hurt me anymore.
Unless they're coming from someone I care about....
Or unless someone throws a dictionary at me, then yeah, words will hurt..lol. :P
And I am reading both sides here. Even though this thread got completely off topic, definitely an interesting and entertaining thread. :)
Just wanted to add:
Yes, I do agree with one side more than other side..obviously. We all do. :P
And we all have our reasons as to why we agree.
I've never had problems with cops until I moved out here.
I guess because in the "big city", there's actual crime going on. There's more cars on the road at 2AM.
Out here, guess there isn't much going on so they feel like they have to find something happening. Even if that means BS reasons for pulling someone over on their way home from work because they're the only car on the road at "bar time".
Even if I didn't get a ticket every time I've been pulled over out here, I shouldn't have to wait 30 minutes for my ID to be ran, for questions to be asked. I shouldn't have to be scared driving home.
My heart shouldn't sink every time I pass a cop. ESPECIALLY, when I'm not doing anything wrong!
So yeah, I'm a little biased on this discussion.
but that's all I have to say. :)
(especially since my rant wasn't even about the cops...it was about people jumping all over new posters. Guess I chose the wrong thread to let that rant loose in! LOL)
brainwrek
10-06-2010, 12:59 AM
I read your two court decisions and yet I don't see the world "drive"? I see travel, I see transport, but not drive? Again you're twisting legal decisisons to fit what you want. Thompson vs. Smith was a case about two parties arguing over property use. Shactman v Dulles was a passport argument from 1955?
If as you hold driving was a right, then long ago the courts would have made the DMV unconstitutional.
To answer your other question though, no I don't think 900K cops are holding back the entire population from destroying society.
But I think it is obvious that if there were no cops at all, a small portion of the population would inflict rampant damage upon society.
Did you read the first line of my post?
"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.
Are you suggesting the courts meant push your automobile, or perhaps tow your automobile down the public highway?
Djoser
10-06-2010, 02:15 AM
Yes, you are perfectly free to travel the nation's highways. If you are not willing to prove your ability to drive safely by taking the tests everyone else does, or show the same financial responsibility everyone else does, by taking out an insurance policy, you can still do this.
By bus, for instance, or while a passenger in a car driven by a responsible, trained driver with full insurance coverage. No one would ever dispute that.
You may also transport your belongings by various means, trucks being the most common. But those truck drivers are required to take special tests, as well they should be--since they are driving very large, heavy vehicles, capable of causing immense damage should they lose control.
Oh and as far as needing 900,000 cops to keep 300,000,000 people under control? No, I don't think so. But that's not what I said. I said if there were no cops at all, there would be no cities, because they would have been looted and burned down long ago. And you could not walk down the street safely with your beautiful wife. Because you couldn't--unless maybe you hired a M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank to drive the route next to you.
Not everyone is a murderer, rapist, and/or thief; just waiting to shed blood and wreak mayhem on any and all innocent people within reach. But if you don't think the police prevent people from beating the shit out of others, stealing their money, raping their wives and daughters, just by virtue of being there to arrest the motherfuckers that try it, you are seriously delusional in my opinion.
All you have to do is crack a history book, read about what happens when law and order has broken down in any number of cities or countries.
I have no special fondness for cops in general. I certainly don't buy the 'We don't make the laws, we just enforce them.' bullshit, for reasons I have explained above. There are also a lot more cops than we really need, especially fucking narcotics agents and vice cops. But if you don't think we need any cops at all, ever, that's an entirely different matter.
What the hell do you think would happen if we let all those crazy motherfuckers in prison loose??? It took cops to put them there so they would stop killing and raping people, and it also takes cops to keep them in there, killing and raping each other instead.
Like it or not, there are plenty of sick fucks out there, who would kill you as soon as look at you if they could get away with it, especially if you have something they want. I have seen these people, and trust me, there isn't much to stop them as it is. We don't need to just up and give them carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want to your wife and kids, and you after you watch them do it.
You might think you are safe as long as you have your collection of big guns, maybe--and you might be safer than your average motherfucker/target out there. But there are already many, many large groups of guys who all have lots of guns, and if you piss one of them off, you will have 20 or 30 of them with their big guns, coming to get you, your wife, your kids, your fucking dog. In the movies you might stand a chance. But this is the real world, and you will lose, even if you take a few with you in the process.
If there were no cops, those guys would rule the world, instead of these asshole politicians we currently have telling the cops what to do. Given the choice, I'll take the asshole politicians over the fucking gangs.
Elvia
10-06-2010, 03:29 AM
You can sit here and fantasize about all the what if's in your head, but the bottom line is she wasnt pulled over, you lost a loved one, and the person is being punished accordingly right? Crime committed, punishment enforced. Thats the way the system is supposed to work.
No, actually, if you really want to know. Of the two people I know who have been hit by drunk drivers, one driver was in jail for less than a year (my friend who was hit, btw, suffered severe permanent brain damage and is in a wheel chair for the rest of her life). The other one was hit and killed. No, she did not do much either.
What would it matter anyway? You're seriously going to blow it off and say "well, justice was served" while you're also arguing that people should be allowed to drive home drunk UNTIL something like that happens? That is so fucking stupid.
jester214
10-06-2010, 08:47 AM
Did you read the first line of my post?
"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.
Are you suggesting the courts meant push your automobile, or perhaps tow your automobile down the public highway?
And you clearly didn't read mine. Nothing in that quote says anything about "driving". This was a case about the usage of public roads. Not the usage of motor vehicles.
I can find a quote where SCOTUS says we have the right to own weapons. But that doesn't mean everyone can automatically go buy a gun. Same with voting, there are restrictions to everything. Most specifically, age.
I still want to know what country you do consider to be "free"?
Yuki*
10-06-2010, 09:39 AM
Why don't you explain how someone who lives more than 20 miles from a store is supposed to go grocery shopping without a car?
This should be good.
Going to have to back up dlabtot on this one.
Last year a friend of mine in a different state fell on very very hard times... His tags on his car expired because he was so broke, and he had to walk two hours there and back to the grocery store or attempt to drive at 6am once every two weeks and chance being arrested. With no public transit (and closest cab company 20 mins away), once the weather hit 30 degrees outside he had to live in fear just to get milk and bread.
He got back on his feet quickly, but I wouldn't wish that kind of situation on anyone.
Zinaida
10-06-2010, 02:45 PM
I hate the police system.
lemiwinks31
10-06-2010, 02:54 PM
And you clearly didn't read mine. Nothing in that quote says anything about "driving". This was a case about the usage of public roads. Not the usage of motor vehicles.
I can find a quote where SCOTUS says we have the right to own weapons. But that doesn't mean everyone can automatically go buy a gun. Same with voting, there are restrictions to everything. Most specifically, age.
I still want to know what country you do consider to be "free"?
he is feverishly trying to look it up on the website that tells him what to think........not being able to find it, he goes back to the same 4 or 5 talking points...
So dont ask any questions or poke holes in "his" dogma...it just confuses him and makes him reboot to page one of the website.
Now if you will excuse me, i am going to go fly a fighter jet, because even though i am not a pilot, nor had any training, i have a right to do it, because it was built with taxpayer money.
lemiwinks31
10-06-2010, 03:13 PM
Why don't you explain how someone who lives more than 20 miles from a store is supposed to go grocery shopping without a car?
This should be good.
Bike....run.....walk...get a ride with someone going into town once a week....
They didnt have a problem with this before there were cars.
If you are going to live 20 miles away from civilization without adequate transportation, you are going to have to experience the hardship that comes with that choice.
BustyAmeera
10-06-2010, 03:13 PM
So when say someone was attempting to kick your door in yelling "I'm going to cut your head off and put it on a stick when I get in" what number you gonna dial? ::)
You make a good point, but I had an incident where an ex psycho roommate kicked down my door while I was working in my room (He thought I wasn't home) He threatened to kill me (terroristic threats) broke my computer (that I just bought) trashed my apt, punched holes in the walls, poured food that was cooking on the stove all over the floor, poured ammonia all over my food in the fridge, among other various things that would take too long to mention. Meanwhile I was in the bathroom with the door locked, and on the phone with a 911 op. The police station was 5 minutes from my apt, but it took the cops 15 minutes to show up. When they got there I was obviously upset and because I was upset, I was threatened with getting arrested. No I was not irate and cursing at anyone, not being aggressive etc. Cops said my roommate would not be going to jail because he once lived there, and "had a right to break down the door" (he could have just knocked..) Also an officer told me since he was almost due to retire, he didn't feel like arresting people who he felt did not deserve to be in jail, plus his shift was about to end and he was tired? My roomate had abandoned the place 2 months prior, the day rent was due, without notice, or paying rent.. basically vanished, and had someone contact me to tell me he moved out of town, so naturally, I changed the locks. They refused to make a police report, and it basically took me 3 times of calling the police department before they finally at least made a report. They basically treated me like I was just some dumb bitch who did something wrong, and I hadn't. I was the victim of a crime. I did nothing wrong to this "roommate" but be nice. Dude never had his rent, or even food, and it was strictly platonic on both ends, but the cops claimed we must have been together for him to be so upset?
My point is, some people have a valid reason for hating the cops. It is true the Op could have avoided this incident by not driving, but THAT is a hard situation to not be able to drive, but can still be avoided
BustyAmeera
10-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Oh ya, and just because you call the cops, does not mean they will show up and actually do their job. This is a fact, especially in the city i live in. It's on the news everyday!
I am sure there is good police officers out there. i just havn't come across many, and neither has a LOT of people.
unbeleavable
10-06-2010, 03:22 PM
I'm just glad I don't brake the law..ever...
tempest666
10-06-2010, 03:39 PM
I have a problem with this country turning into a police state. Do I despise all cops? No, cause I know a few good ones. I have a problem with the American legal system. Oh, yeah and I despise Pat Garrett. I hope Billy the Kid gets his posthumous pardon.
Pat Garrett died as ingloriously as he lived, got killed while taking a piss. :D
BustyAmeera
10-06-2010, 03:45 PM
After my roommate from hell incident, and the cops not protecting me, I and my boyfriend AND his mom and dad suggested I get a gun, and learn how to use it! Next time someone decides to kick down my door, they wont be so lucky! I will STILL call the cops, but wont be hiding in the bathroom with the door locked, expecting them to protect me from the big bad intruder...
Ya there are good cops out there. I happen to know at least one, my uncle, but your right, this country HAS turned into a police state, and I'm not liking the direction it's taking. I got a pedophile loose somewhere in my neighborhood, but the cops are more busy chasing people who do far less!
tempest666
10-06-2010, 05:00 PM
I'm listening to NWA's straight outta compton. I'll leave it to the imagination to guess which song is playing.::)
unbeleavable
10-06-2010, 05:07 PM
^^^funny...OMG
tempest666
10-06-2010, 05:14 PM
I'm a headbanger but this album is a classic. It's as essential as the Stones or the Beatles. And remember there are other songs on this album.....;)
I don't hold contempt for all LE, just assholes like the one that collared me because his nightstick was bigger than his dick, so he needed to flex some muscle.
However, you can bet that I am smirking while listening to this homage to anarchy and rebellion.
The good cops are the ones that stick out in my memory because they are so few and far between.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/10/06/cop-peeled-off-to-get-in-party-pool-115875-22612287/
This could be a very interesting pool party! Why don't we have LE like this in Albuquerque?:D
chitownchick
10-06-2010, 07:21 PM
so it take police a long time ro repsond sometimes because they have a large amount of incoming calls. Alot of the calls they get are calls that involve multiple officers. I used to work for the police department and i saw first hand how hard 99% of the officers work. They are constantly under the public eye and they are not paid alot.
Golden_Rule
10-06-2010, 10:03 PM
I hate the police system.
Define the "police system"?
Golden_Rule
10-06-2010, 10:12 PM
Oh ya, and just because you call the cops, does not mean they will show up and actually do their job. This is a fact, especially in the city i live in. It's on the news everyday!
I am sure there is good police officers out there. i just havn't come across many, and neither has a LOT of people.
No one is saying that if this actually happened to you that it was correct, or proper.
The city I worked in has about 1:10,000 ratio of cops to people in the city at any given time. An attempt is made to prioritize calls and service emergencies first. However even with that sometimes multiple emergencies are taking place and the police get spread very thin. Officers don't like this anymore than you do as it means they don't have back-up coming any time soon if they need help. Its a Texas Ranger situation [one riot - one ranger] and they know it.
That said, I can assure you that in my department I, like the other supervisors, think highly of most of our men. That wouldn't keep heads from rolling if someone brought me a story like yours and I found out, after checking into it, that there was even a bit of truth in it.
In modern urban departments, with more and more often college educated personnel, with the top end salaries and pensions on the line that are in play, few police officers are going to be as stupid as the ones you describe in your scenario above. They have too much to lose. That isn't to say it never happens now-days. Just not very often [and even that is too often].
... but your right, this country HAS turned into a police state, and I'm not liking the direction it's taking.
A P.S.: We are no where near a 'police state' as that term is actually regularly used in geo-political terms.
Do you think a lot of cops like what is going on though?
I am no advocate of "The Patriot Act". One hundred years of SCOTUS jurisprudence down the drain with a bill passed into law by a scared Congress that didn't understand its scope and the swipe of Bush's pen. Habeas corpus out the window. Wire taps being increasingly issued by 'secret courts' and worse, warrants being back filled to cover wire taps that had already taken place without court approval first.
Do you think officers who love their country and the democratic republic ideals it is suppose to stand for as the standard bearer of liberty to the rest of the world feel good about stuff like that?
I just don't think we've reached the point where a cabin up in the hills stocked with 100 gallons of potable water and 90 days worth of k-rations, a browning .50 cal sniper rifle and various as sundry armaments and matching ammo is required yet... [looking in the direction of brainwrek and a couple of others]. ::) :O ;)
Meanwhile I was in the bathroom with the door locked, and on the phone with a 911 op. The police station was 5 minutes from my apt, but it took the cops 15 minutes to show up.
Then you need to read my posts carefully. The police should never be your first line of defense, or as they say "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."
They may show up to draw a white line around your body....depending on the size of the city/town, crime rates, distance to travel, cop to citizen ratio, etc, 15 minutes is average. In my town, they would be here in 5 or less I bet, which is 4 longer then I want, but they can't do much better then that.
I recommend all women vist the web site Second Amendment Sisters: http://www.2asisters.org/
A web site run my women for women regarding all things fire arms, self defense, etc as it relates to women.
Self defense, be it from criminals or tyranny, is a Basic Human Right.
My point is, some people have a valid reason for hating the cops.
I have yet to meet anyone with a valid reason for hating all cops.