View Full Version : Just got out of jail
I'm listening to NWA's straight outta compton. I'll leave it to the imagination to guess which song is playing.::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxyJ6OYLVzg That one is much better :)
Perry
10-07-2010, 11:32 AM
This went somewhere interesting. I hope the OP doesn't mind. But manners aren't exactly rampant on pink are, they?
The police don't really matter. Guilt and innocence are determined in court. It's the judges and lawyers who decide a person's fate. And they often have underlying motives, don't they? A prosecuter with a low conviction rate will soon find himself out of work. As will a judge who looks "soft". I've also noticed an unnerving sense of apathy in most Americans when it comes to reforming our courts, laws and correction prograhms.
Fact - America is home to about %5 of the world's population.
Fact - America also houses %25 of the world's prisoners.
Is that a working system? Not really. How many repeat offenders do we have? Did you know there are privately owned prisons? And, that is one of the most lucrative buisnesses to get into these days. You can bet your lucky g-string human rights are being violated to cut costs, or simply out of a stressfull situation and the ever popular "pack mentality". How regulated and monitored are the privately owned corrections facilities and court ordered prograhms? Not very.
I'm in a chatty mood today. So I'll share this little gem of a story. A friend, let's call her Bambi. Got a DUI. And was subjected to a radical new treatment. It was called the JAMS prograhm. Now, this meant going to a location and blowing in a breathalyzer to make sure she wasn't drinking. I think there were only 3 places that did this. Not a big deal, and possibly more desireable than an alcohol tether for some people. Except, the judge took away her liscense. And the nearest location to blow was a good 20 minutes away from her.
Now, add in the fact that she never knows when her color will come up and she has a limited amount of time to go to said location and blow. Missing a blow was the same as failing one. On top of this, she has to attend AA classes, which eats up another good chunk of her time.
How did Bambi manage to work and pay off her court fines? She was a stripper. So, unlike most of the country she had a very flexable schedule and a low risk of being fired for frequently missing work. How did she find rides on a consistant basis to blow and go to classes? I have no idea. I think she had a few boyfriends. There was one bus in town that just went to a major town and cabs were VERY pricey.
So, people frequently end up a good deal worse off than when they started after going through the legal system. Even if they go in for something non-violent or victimless. Does this turn people onto crime? Maybe. Does it deter them from breaking the law? Sometimes.
But that's not good enough. Not when my tax dollars are supporting some of these idiodic, half assed, useless prograhms designed to annoy the living piss out offenders, and drain them of their time and $$$ but not really teach them anything. Or make the roads safer.
TinkerBall
10-07-2010, 10:48 PM
http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/
chitownchick
10-09-2010, 08:06 AM
the recidivism rate in most states is at 76%, thats pretty sad..........and basically supports what perry said above^. anyone see rthat article on yahoo news about a federal judge (i beleive) that was known for his harsh drug sentences and got caught usuing drugs with a stripper, carrying guns to do drug deals, ill try to find a link......................this is one of the reason strippers get a bad rap, cause of shit like this
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_federal_judge_arrest
AngelKing
10-09-2010, 09:30 AM
Here's a video that might interest some of you----a fancy pants lawyer that tells you not to talk to the police and why. Also, a cop goes through his interrogation tactics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
AngelKing
10-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Another good video. BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA
Athenathefabulous
10-09-2010, 03:01 PM
A lot of people have a very low opinion of strippers, due mostly, to ignorance, and or believing the stereotypes about them they think they know, when they don't.
One major difference between the hatred of cops and strippers: from when we are kids, we are taught to love the police because they are the good guys. Almost all of us are at least, the schools teach it, most adults teach it.
but from when we are kids we are taught that strippers and other sex industry workers are not good. not what we want to be.
i think the fact that one of them develops later in life and one of them is fed to us all of our life says something about the difference...
One major difference between the hatred of cops and strippers: from when we are kids, we are taught to love the police because they are the good guys. .
And the vast majority of them are.
Here's a video that might interest some of you----a fancy pants lawyer that tells you not to talk to the police and why. Also, a cop goes through his interrogation tactics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Yup, a vid everyone should watch.
Athenathefabulous
10-09-2010, 03:29 PM
This went somewhere interesting. I hope the OP doesn't mind. But manners aren't exactly rampant on pink are, they?
The police don't really matter. Guilt and innocence are determined in court. It's the judges and lawyers who decide a person's fate. And they often have underlying motives, don't they? A prosecuter with a low conviction rate will soon find himself out of work. As will a judge who looks "soft". I've also noticed an unnerving sense of apathy in most Americans when it comes to reforming our courts, laws and correction prograhms.
Fact - America is home to about %5 of the world's population.
Fact - America also houses %25 of the world's prisoners.
Is that a working system? Not really. How many repeat offenders do we have? Did you know there are privately owned prisons? And, that is one of the most lucrative buisnesses to get into these days. You can bet your lucky g-string human rights are being violated to cut costs, or simply out of a stressfull situation and the ever popular "pack mentality". How regulated and monitored are the privately owned corrections facilities and court ordered prograhms? Not very.
I'm in a chatty mood today. So I'll share this little gem of a story. A friend, let's call her Bambi. Got a DUI. And was subjected to a radical new treatment. It was called the JAMS prograhm. Now, this meant going to a location and blowing in a breathalyzer to make sure she wasn't drinking. I think there were only 3 places that did this. Not a big deal, and possibly more desireable than an alcohol tether for some people. Except, the judge took away her liscense. And the nearest location to blow was a good 20 minutes away from her.
Now, add in the fact that she never knows when her color will come up and she has a limited amount of time to go to said location and blow. Missing a blow was the same as failing one. On top of this, she has to attend AA classes, which eats up another good chunk of her time.
How did Bambi manage to work and pay off her court fines? She was a stripper. So, unlike most of the country she had a very flexable schedule and a low risk of being fired for frequently missing work. How did she find rides on a consistant basis to blow and go to classes? I have no idea. I think she had a few boyfriends. There was one bus in town that just went to a major town and cabs were VERY pricey.
So, people frequently end up a good deal worse off than when they started after going through the legal system. Even if they go in for something non-violent or victimless. Does this turn people onto crime? Maybe. Does it deter them from breaking the law? Sometimes.
But that's not good enough. Not when my tax dollars are supporting some of these idiodic, half assed, useless prograhms designed to annoy the living piss out offenders, and drain them of their time and $$$ but not really teach them anything. Or make the roads safer.
Excellently put.
and IMO, if we were really concerned about making the roads safer we would invest our resources into making better public transportation after the bars close. Want people to stop driving home drunk at 2:30 am? make sure they have a bus to ride home. the fact that most buses stop running before nightlife ends, or often even begins, says something about where our concerns really lie....
Athenathefabulous
10-09-2010, 03:38 PM
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Excellently put.
Agreed, and some good points. However, also has nothing to do with cops. Cops don't run prisons, have no effects on prisons, or f-ed laws that have us putting away far too many people for non violent drug offenses, etc, etc.
Again, if people want to change the system, dont look at cops, look at the system. Laws are passed by law makers, usually backed by citizens and or lobbying groups who usually have a financial stake in the outcome.... I agree totally, many of the laws are neither useful or constitutional, but that has nadda to so with cops, just to be clear.
Many cops feel some laws they enforce are a waste of time, others feel they are good laws, etc, Ergo, they are - as amazing as this will sound - individuals with their own opinions and feelings on an issue.
Prison systems need to be reformed, the system as it exists does not help reduce repeat offenders, many of the laws need to be changed, etc, etc.
People should be able to marry who ever the hell they want, sleep with whom ever they want for payment or not, and use what ever drug they want, etc, etc as long as (1) their behavior does not threaten others freedoms, life liberty etc (2) involves consenting adults.
my point is that the 'i hate the police' attitude is not instilled in us from childhood. the 'i hate the sex workers' attitude is.
I was never taught to "love" the police or hate strippers. Are strippers considered sex workers? I have to admit, I have never though of them as such.
There is a reason why people learn to hate the police...
Because they made poor life choices, had contact with the police, then blame their crappy life on the police vs their own poor choices.
Athenathefabulous
10-09-2010, 03:54 PM
Agreed, and some good points. However, also has nothing to do with cops. Cops don't run prisons, have no effects on prisons, or f-ed laws that have us putting away far too many people for non violent drug offenses, etc, etc.
Again, if people want to change the system, dont look at cops, look at the system. Laws are passed by law makers, usually backed by citizens and or lobbying groups who usually have a financial stake in the outcome.... I agree totally, many of the laws are neither useful or constitutional, but that has nadda to so with cops, just to be clear.
Many cops feel some laws they enforce are a waste of time, others feel they are good laws, etc, Ergo, they are - as amazing as this will sound - individuals with their own opinions and feelings on an issue.
Prison systems need to be reformed, the system as it exists does not help reduce repeat offenders, many of the laws need to be changed, etc, etc.
People should be able to marry who ever the hell they want, sleep with whom ever they want for payment or not, and use what ever drug they want, etc, etc as long as (1) their behavior does not threaten others freedoms, life liberty etc (2) involves consenting adults.
as i said, i see cops more to be pawns than anything. some with a power complex which is even worse.
but in the game of chess, the pawns might be just pawns, but they are still part of the enemy team.
Athenathefabulous
10-09-2010, 03:59 PM
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_Avery_
10-09-2010, 04:26 PM
Because they made poor life choices, had contact with the police, then blame their crappy life on the police vs their own poor choices.
I'm sorry, but we all didn't make "poor life choices".
Maybe some have, (stealing, drugs, rape, etc...)
Some of us had simply made mistakes.
In my experience with the cops out here, I wasn't doing a damn thing wrong.
Pulling me over (TWICE) for not having a WI driver's license??
I still had my NV license...that isn't a valid reason to pull someone over...sorry.
The law says you have 60 days to get it, I wasn't here 60 days. EITHER time I got pulled over.
Getting pulled over because the cop didn't know what a temporary NV plate looked like??
Getting pulled over because it looked like I was going a "little fast".
35 going to 25 down a hill....never was I SPEEDING.
Not a valid reason to pull me over.
No, I don't have a "crappy life" because I continue to get pulled over.
It's just irritating to be harassed.
The MISTAKES I HAVE made, I am dealing with and have learned from.
(My DUI)
I'm not mad at the cops for that, I'm mad at myself for thinking I was okay to drive.
I'm just mad at the cops who look for (like I said before) BS reasons to pull me over in an attempt to see if I'm doing anything wrong.
SOME people just have had bad luck with cops.
_Avery_
10-09-2010, 04:29 PM
if only more americans were aware that being honest with cops is the best way to ruin their lives :(.
Yeah, I wish I would have known that I didn't have to take a blood test, or even do sobriety tests..... :-\
AngelKing
10-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Yeah, I wish I would have known that I didn't have to take a blood test, or even do sobriety tests..... :-\
Watch the videos I posted, especially the 2nd one. Most times people begin incriminating themselves the minute they begin interacting with a cop. Police obviously know how to use the law to further their ends, we have to learn how to use it to defend ourselves when in potentially vulnerable situations with them.
Athenathefabulous
10-09-2010, 05:12 PM
Yeah, I wish I would have known that I didn't have to take a blood test, or even do sobriety tests..... :-\
Be aware though, although you have a right to refus sobriety tests, in many states if you do refuse a sobriety test your liscense is automatically suspended for __ days.
Field sobriety tests are bullshit too. Lotsa studies done on them have showed them to be a bad way of distinguishing drunkeness. Atleast a breathalyzer has scientific backing.
_Avery_
10-09-2010, 05:17 PM
Be aware though, although you have a right to refus sobriety tests, in many states if you do refuse a sobriety test your liscense is automatically suspended for __ days.
Field sobriety tests are bullshit too. Lotsa studies done on them have showed them to be a bad way of distinguishing drunkeness. Atleast a breathalyzer has scientific backing.
I would've taken that over a revoked license for 8 months and having to have an IID for a year..lol
although, at least with this IID, I don't have to worry about anymore DUI'S. :P
jester214
10-09-2010, 09:55 PM
my point is that the 'i hate the police' attitude is not instilled in us from childhood. the 'i hate the sex workers' attitude is. There is a reason why people learn to hate the police...
Just to clarify really quickly, your argument here is basically suggesting that obviously cops are bad because we like them when we're little and then like them less when we get older??
What don't we learn the darkside of as we get older? From Santa Claus, to genocide in Africa...
It's not inherently good or bad, we just learn more about it as we get older. Thanks to our good and honest friends in the media, it's mostly the bad we learn about.
Athenathefabulous
10-09-2010, 10:20 PM
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jester214
10-09-2010, 10:51 PM
^^Okay, I agree with most of that.
Take this however you want, but that post for me was much clearer.
I will also add in though that I think MANY people (not all but many) have the same sort of irrationally based attitudes about the police that MANY people also have about sex workers.
The point of that argument is just to reiterate that stereotyping is bad.
Golden_Rule
10-10-2010, 06:27 PM
no, my argument is that the bad cop stereotype is not one that we are raised with.
Oh I don't know about that. Seems to me police don't get quite the automatic good press they use to. The things one bad cop does gets far more play that what 100 cops might do day in and day out to make other people's lives more bearable.
Movies don't portray cops as the good guys as much as they use to.
TV is better, but lots of police dramas with corruption or abuse story lines,
The overall media bias towards showing police in a positive light hasn't been in effect since the 80's.
Elvia
10-11-2010, 11:07 PM
^^^ I don't know. Maybe they get some bad press, but the bad cops never seem to really get punished for what they do. In my city there's a couple cops who just keep coming up in the news for getting insanely violent with people for reasons that are "dubious" at best. One of them ended up killing a mentally ill man he attacked for peeing on a tree (which the city had to pay up for). He also beat up another mentally ill person a couple years later- this one being a child. It was revealed that his justification for doing so was total BS when a security tape was played back. And yet- he's still working. For all the violent out of control behavior we've seen from cops in my city over the past decade, I can't think of a single high profile case that they didn't get away with scot free. It seems clear to me that cops are still getting the benefit of the doubt. Even when there seems to be little to no doubt that their behavior was unjustified.
Athenathefabulous
10-11-2010, 11:45 PM
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jester214
10-12-2010, 11:09 AM
^I think Public schools are teaching what cops are SUPPOSED to be all the time.
Kids need to trust police for a variety of reasons. It won't be long before a lot of them are jaded about the police (thankyou American media). I mean do you honestly think kids should hear "Now kids if you ever get approached by a stranger or someone does something bad to you, you can go to the cops but they might do something awful to you?"
I mean... obviously its a valid point to a degree, but I don't think it really lasts. By the time kids are in middle school these days some probably have a higher opinion of sex workers than they do police, and not usually for good reasons. that's just our culture these days.
dlabtot
10-12-2010, 05:30 PM
Teaching children that turning yourselves in cuts down on punishment.
Agreed, "It will go easier on you if you confess" is a total lie.
Kisca
10-13-2010, 12:29 PM
^ I strongly agree on Athena's point about "teaching children that turning yourselves in cuts down on punishment"
Its total bullshit - if kids were smarter they should do a legal document stating "If I confess, you cannot punish me" or to some form of an agreement. I remember when kids did agree to their actions whether they were accidently, right or wrong, all of them got the same punishment. I did 2 years of schooling in a different country, and kids got bullied and picked on right infront of teachers, in classtime etc. What did the teachers do? Nothing. Every kid to their own. As long as you didnt start anything physical you were in the clear - even then it was keep your mouth shut when adults speak to you, words from every parent to their kid.
Then when I did schooling here, cops came in often and spoke to the kids. To trust them, to be an honest person; to confess (for your bad actions) and life will be easier on you. I understand they are trying to teach to be a good person, but the fact that they lie claming, cops are here to talk to about your problems, you can call them when a stranger is bothering you, when you do something bad you will get off... All these things are lies to make kids to believe cops are like this in society and these should be your beliefs on cops. When in reality they have to follow the law anyway, that they arent always there - its their job, and they only can follow the law, not your concerns, feelings, your actions of right.
Athenathefabulous
10-13-2010, 01:00 PM
Yep. We are taught to confess breaking te rules. And in regards to the government we are taught not to question the rules. I understand it is a difficult balance with trying to keep a large group of children under control and all so the school can actually function, but in regards to learning about the law there is not much wiggle room.
Another thing that should be noted is America is a young country and that is reflected n how we teach children about history and the law. In other countries there is a lot of history of oppression (oppressive monarchs dictators etc) so I feel that they have a bit more background in being skeptics of those in charge. In America, we are taught since we were small that the government is a liberator... Remember after all we freed ourselves from the oppressive English system. And while this is true, I believe the attitude that our government saved us is the same attitude that continues to grow and continues to encourage us to turn a blind eye to all of the freedoms that the government breeches as well as the corruption of those in the govt. Afterall, this is the land of the free....
I'm hoping I'm making sense. I'm typing this from my phone so being coherent is a bit tricky. Blah in person or on a regular keyboard I can put up a very good arguement for this.
BustyAmeera
10-13-2010, 01:24 PM
Then you need to read my posts carefully. The police should never be your first line of defense, or as they say "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."
They may show up to draw a white line around your body....depending on the size of the city/town, crime rates, distance to travel, cop to citizen ratio, etc, 15 minutes is average. In my town, they would be here in 5 or less I bet, which is 4 longer then I want, but they can't do much better then that.
I recommend all women vist the web site Second Amendment Sisters: http://www.2asisters.org/
A web site run my women for women regarding all things fire arms, self defense, etc as it relates to women.
Self defense, be it from criminals or tyranny, is a Basic Human Right.
I have yet to meet anyone with a valid reason for hating all cops.
Never said I hate all cops, and yes, people do have a reason to hate, dislike them. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions. Obviously there are a LOT of people who have reasons for feeling the way they do about cops. Some valid, and some not valid at all.
Golden_Rule
10-13-2010, 09:04 PM
^^^ I don't know. Maybe they get some bad press, but the bad cops never seem to really get punished for what they do. In my city there's a couple cops who just keep coming up in the news for getting insanely violent with people for reasons that are "dubious" at best. One of them ended up killing a mentally ill man he attacked for peeing on a tree (which the city had to pay up for). He also beat up another mentally ill person a couple years later- this one being a child. It was revealed that his justification for doing so was total BS when a security tape was played back. And yet- he's still working. For all the violent out of control behavior we've seen from cops in my city over the past decade, I can't think of a single high profile case that they didn't get away with scot free. It seems clear to me that cops are still getting the benefit of the doubt. Even when there seems to be little to no doubt that their behavior was unjustified.
I guess it depends on where you come from.
In the bigger cities of the north-east, it doesn't matter how right you may have been, you are in big sh*t if you wind up in a situation that is politically inconvenient for the city politicians. Jobs have been lost. Pensions too. Over the most minor things.
A co-worker of mine, standing in a line at a movie in another town where a joint was being passed up the line was arrested. He lost his job over possession of a roach [a marijuana cigarette with only one or two drags left on it] when it was passed to him and he took a hit on it. It was possession far less than 50 grams. A ticket-able offense. Pay a fine and go home for anyone else. The local prosecutor decided to make an example of him because he was a police officer.
It cuts both ways.
Never said I hate all cops, and yes, people do have a reason to hate, dislike them.
And most of the time they are not rational reasons, and generally due to cops being blamed for bad life decisions they made, etc, etc. Going around in circles here. /:O
Elvia
10-19-2010, 02:46 PM
I guess it depends on where you come from.
In the bigger cities of the north-east, it doesn't matter how right you may have been, you are in big sh*t if you wind up in a situation that is politically inconvenient for the city politicians. Jobs have been lost. Pensions too. Over the most minor things.
A co-worker of mine, standing in a line at a movie in another town where a joint was being passed up the line was arrested. He lost his job over possession of a roach [a marijuana cigarette with only one or two drags left on it] when it was passed to him and he took a hit on it. It was possession far less than 50 grams. A ticket-able offense. Pay a fine and go home for anyone else. The local prosecutor decided to make an example of him because he was a police officer.
It cuts both ways.
Come on. It's not like it evens out. Your buddy losing his job, while regrettable, is a far less pressing issue than the rash of unnecessary deaths caused by police with practically zero accountability.
Golden_Rule
10-19-2010, 08:20 PM
Come on. It's not like it evens out. Your buddy losing his job, while regrettable, is a far less pressing issue than the rash of unnecessary deaths caused by police with practically zero accountability.
He was but one example. There are many others.
And where do you derive that there has been a "rash of unnecessary deaths caused by police with practically zero accountability" in the US of A? Awfully large statement to make unless you can produce actual cases to substantiate a claim like that.
jester214
10-19-2010, 10:25 PM
He was but one example. There are many others.
And where do you derive that there has been a "rash of unnecessary deaths caused by police with practically zero accountability" in the US of A? Awfully large statement to make unless you can produce actual cases to substantiate a claim like that.
Because the police some times accidentally shoot someone, or shoot someone they probably shouldn't have AND since they don't immediately crucify the police on the spot they obviously get away with it scott free.
Duh!!! ::)
Because the police some times accidentally shoot someone, or shoot someone they probably shouldn't have AND since they don't immediately crucify the police on the spot they obviously get away with it scott free.
Duh!!! ::)
And you have plenty of people being shot who should have been shot, but most people having essentially zero knowledge of guns, police SOP, combat, etc, and getting most of their info on that topic from TV, will consider a perfectly justifiable shooting as not. That's a major issue right there.
I see that all the time. Statements like "he only had a knife, they should not have shot him" or "trying to run the officer over with a car is no reason to shoot him" other incredibly ignorant statements similar are common.
On TV, everything works nice an clean, and the cop shoots the gun out of the hand of the bad guy, show ends, everyone goes home happy. ::)
jester214
10-20-2010, 12:53 PM
^Did you really miss the sarcasm in my post?
^Did you really miss the sarcasm in my post?
No, which is why I started my response with "and" = these are my added comments to yours which I agree with. ;)
brainwrek
10-20-2010, 01:44 PM
Louisiana man gets five years for shooting two deputies during no-knock drug raid. He says he thought they were burglars, and actually called 911 during the raid.
Too bad his aim was off. The only way to eradicate these BS no knock warrants is for large numbers of dead cops to turn up as a result of them.
Will, why wasnt the cop who shot an unarmed and cuffed suspect charged with murder?
Stop making excuses for cops.
Stop making excuses for cops.
Troll's back! /:O
brainwrek
10-20-2010, 03:07 PM
Troll's back! /:O
Nothing trolling about my post at all. You go out of your way to defend cops at every given opportunity. Sounds like you have a bad case of badge envy.
Elvia
10-20-2010, 03:48 PM
Because the police some times accidentally shoot someone, or shoot someone they probably shouldn't have AND since they don't immediately crucify the police on the spot they obviously get away with it scott free.
Duh!!! ::)
What an incredibly ignorant and childish post.
The problem is police often don't even follow protocol, attack people they shouldn't, often don't take mental illness into account at all, use excessive force, etc.
I could give you links...but Jesus Christ, there's so many cases of police misconduct leading to tragedy that's led to nothing. If you're seriously blind to it now, it's because you want to be and likely plan on staying that way and thinking in childish extremes. We've had so many cops on the force in Portland who have a long history of being unneccesarily violent, and I have yet to find one case where it led to anything. They're always allowed to keep working.
Check out the James Chasse case. Humphrey, who has TWICE now been caught fabricating stories to justify his overly violent actions towards the mentally ill, is still working. Despite the fact that his actions have been determined to have caused one completely unnecessary death that the city has paid out the nose for, and yet? No accountability. Over 4 years later and he's still working. He's violent, he doesn't follow protocol, he blatantly lies...and yet, it looks like he'll remain on the force for as long as he wants. But that's par for the course in Portland. Cases like this pop up all the time, and everyone knows it will lead to nothing. If anyone else in any other field fucked up their job that much, they'd be long gone. And this is probably the worst industry to allow such people to continue working in.
brainwrek
10-20-2010, 04:35 PM
Here is another one of your buddies Will....
Denver police officer arrested as sex assault suspect
Paez then allegedly took the woman to an isolated area and coerced her into "performing a sexual act to avoid being taken to jail," the DA's office said.
ArmySGT.
10-20-2010, 05:58 PM
Memorize this phrase.
No poly, no waiver, no statement, I wish to speak to my Lawyer.
Then shut the fuck up. answer only biographical data, let your Lawyer speak on your behalf. Look dumb.
jester214
10-20-2010, 07:07 PM
What an incredibly ignorant and childish post.
The problem is police often don't even follow protocol, attack people they shouldn't, often don't take mental illness into account at all, use excessive force, etc.
I could give you links...but Jesus Christ, there's so many cases of police misconduct leading to tragedy that's led to nothing. If you're seriously blind to it now, it's because you want to be and likely plan on staying that way and thinking in childish extremes. We've had so many cops on the force in Portland who have a long history of being unneccesarily violent, and I have yet to find one case where it led to anything. They're always allowed to keep working.
Check out the James Chasse case. Humphrey, who has TWICE now been caught fabricating stories to justify his overly violent actions towards the mentally ill, is still working. Despite the fact that his actions have been determined to have caused one completely unnecessary death that the city has paid out the nose for, and yet? No accountability. Over 4 years later and he's still working. He's violent, he doesn't follow protocol, he blatantly lies...and yet, it looks like he'll remain on the force for as long as he wants. But that's par for the course in Portland. Cases like this pop up all the time, and everyone knows it will lead to nothing. If anyone else in any other field fucked up their job that much, they'd be long gone. And this is probably the worst industry to allow such people to continue working in.
If you haven't seen all the cop shooting threads on this and on the other site in the past, then you want understand my point. If you have seen them, then you probably are one of the ones I was directing my sarcasm at.
I agree, cops occasionally shoot people they shouldn't. Sometimes they flat out deserve serious charges for this (manslaughter, etc.). Yet there is also a massive issue in this country with the media publicizing cop shootings and not giving all the details.
In addition to that multiple times on these sites I've seen where a cop shoots someone, and immediately there are calls to "crucify" the police.
Years ago in PA where I'm from the Newspaper ran a story about how two police officers had shot a mentally ill woman as she came out of her house after responding to a call. The Police refused to comment. People went nuts, harassed the officers, staged protests, had memorials...
Next Day (or day after next): Newspaper announces the woman had already fired shots before they got there, and when she came out of the house she had guns in each hand. Then she refused to stop moving towards the police and they shot her. Had multiple witnesses to this.
I don't care what the police do. I want all the facts first (remember that Harvard professor a few years ago) before I start making demands about what should "happen". I also mock other people for doing it, sorry if that's childish and ignorant, but so is the "hang the policeman crowd".
And you want to deal with Police accountability? Probably have to deal with the unions. Most liberals don't want to touch those though.
Golden_Rule
10-25-2010, 10:26 AM
The problem is police often don't even follow protocol, attack people they shouldn't, often don't take mental illness into account at all, use excessive force, etc.
There are two kinds of mistakes. Ones of the head and ones of the heart.
Ones of the head are defects in training. Officers who are deemed insufficiently trained are retrained and tested.
Ones of the heart are character flaws. Officers who have such flaws that weren't caught in screening are treated, IF they are treatable [drug misuse, etc]. Dismissed after due process if they are not.
Use of deadly force is a matter of accessing imminent and immediate threat to life. Accessing potential mental illness, which can be difficult at the best of times, may come into play BEFORE a life and death scenario goes down, in making determination as to what tactics are to be employed in dealing with an individual. At the actual moment of a decision to use deadly force the only criteria in play is whether the person(s) in question mean to, and have the means to do, cause mayhem or commit homicide.