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Promnesiac
10-03-2010, 01:25 PM
I don't get it, and don't get the idea that if a guy doesn't pay for everything he's a moocher, not ambitious, etc. These two ideas aren't the same and the idea of comparing a man who expects a woman to pay for everything while they pay nothing is not the same as a guy who expects to share fees.
Nothing I hate more than gender roles. Going by many of the comments I expected a few think it's fine when a woman is paid less than a man because "women are supported by men". Incidentally, I had a friend who also had this attitude that a man should provide for the woman and that women should be paid less. She's no longer my friend because she didn't support me when I needed her most (when I lost my job). Instead she told me I should have been paid less than a man and I should accept it.
Your friend sounds like someone who would make my head explode.
The "moocher" thing is especially illogical, since I can't think of a more appropriate word for a woman who expects to be lavished with money and gifts based solely on the fact that she has ovaries. So how is the man a moocher in this scenario?
Kellydancer
10-03-2010, 01:35 PM
Your friend sounds like someone who would make my head explode.
The "moocher" thing is especially illogical, since I can't think of a more appropriate word for a woman who expects to be lavished with money and gifts based solely on the fact that she has ovaries. So how is the man a moocher in this scenario?
I don't think he's a moocher at all, which is why I don't get women who think the guys who don't pay for everything are. To me a moocher is a guy who expects me to pay for everything (yes, I briefly dated one of these guys). Expecting a woman to pay her fair share isn't a moocher in my mind. I would say that a woman who expects him to pay for everything is definitely a moocher. When I think of these women I think of my current situation. The guy I love got used by a gold digger (as in a woman who expected him to pay for everything because she was a woman). Because of her and women like her he has issues. Women with this attitude don't realize they are often ruining it for women like me who really like a guy and not for his money.
My friend was terrible because she was actually married to a moocher. She worked, paid all the bills, yet did all the housework because that's "womens job". Not just that but she bought a trailer and put it in his name because he's a "man". She's completely delusional.
Elvia
10-03-2010, 01:35 PM
As performers, men want our caliber of looks and sex appeal. Otherwise, they'd pick a regular chick. Our money is different than regular chick money. And it's ours -- we work hard for it.
I have to say, I kind of resent the implication that my man is with me because I'm a stripper. That's a very unpleasant thought. luckily I know it's not true in my case, because we were together before I ever started dancing. Are we somehow worth more than a "regular chick?" That's another unsettling thought. Does that mean these arrangements (because that is what they sound like) should end when we get older and are no long tight bodied strippers? Are we no longer worth it then? Should we have to pay more then? Or should he go find a new 18 year old stripper to support? That doesn't sound like a real relationship to me.
And yes, we work hard for our money. But come on, let's not imply that other women outside of the industry don't work hard. Not many jobs are "easy money." and there's a lot of jobs out there that I personally would consider much harder than stripping, not to mention the many people (including women) who have to work more than one entry level job to make ends meet.
Let's not forget our sisters who get ripped off by the club, pimped, lied to, gaslighted, tricked and exploited so men can have their money and boss them. Dorothy Stratten, Jasmine Fiore, the lady they based "The Burning Bed" on, chicks on AMW and Snapped.
Even our sisters who get beaten, raped and stabbed for their checks. Especially when kids are in the picture and women put up with all this bullying so they can keep a man in the family.
Although that's not what I'd call a man.
That's all very sad but I'm not sure what it has to do with what we're talking about. We're discussing whether women should expect their men to pay all the bills. I'm not sure why we're suddenly talking about domestic abuse and exploitative clubs. Obviously if you're in an abusive relationship. you should be thinking about getting out of it, not how you can get him to pay your share of the rent and the phone bill.
Liberation and making our own dough is great. It still isn't a reality for everyone. We gotta think our way into real liberation.
And I agree -- freedom ain't free.
My responses in bold, obviously.
Kellydancer
10-03-2010, 01:38 PM
Btw, if a guy's only with me because of my looks, it's not going to last in the long run. I want a guy who wants to be with ME not the way look.
I think some of you will change when you get older and realize looks are a very small part of a relationship.
charlie61
10-03-2010, 01:51 PM
I also want to mention that I am thanking posts in this thread without any kind of passive-aggressive motives. I just find that these posts are useful to the discussion, and they are often phrased more eloquently than my own. :)
Candy Girl
10-03-2010, 02:13 PM
Elvia, sorry I didn't mean to imply any man is with a gorgeous woman because she is a stripper. I'm just saying part of our appeal is our looks and our paper.
Some chicks aren't that physically attractive and don't have money to share. That's the harsh reality of life. But there is "a lid for every pot."
Not all cute women with dough are strippers
And yes- agreed, all kinds of women work hard. My ex-boss lets her too-pretty-for-her boyfriend live off her in her home for free -- he pays for nothing except weed & coke to keep her dependent.
I have a family member who makes millions and keeps getting with no-count dudes that she loses the house, dogs & cars to when they divorced and has to put the ex-hubby's kids thru college. This ex-hubby always fronted like he was on her level when it was really she who bankrolled his failed businesses. He cheated on her, he pushed for divorce & she paid out bigtime. But "it ain't trickin' if you got it."
Then she got with the model guy who has bad credit so she put his cellphone in her name.
But eventually she moved on and improved her choices in men.
Financial "softness" in a man is cause for doubt. Cuz it'll cost you in the long run.
My point about abuse in relationships is that financial exploitation is part of it. When a guy takes rather than gives.
Again, sharing is ideal. Whatever we give to a lover is a choice, never an obligation.
And, again, this is my opinion based on my experience and the advice of friends and family who in their own thinking "made the wrong choices" about men, relationships, living expenses and money.
Just grist for our shared thinking mill.
Promnesiac
10-03-2010, 02:20 PM
Financial "softness" in a man is cause for doubt. Cuz it'll cost you in the long run.
But we're talking about two different things. Not wanting to pay for everything and be in a financially unbalanced relationship is not the same thing as being a cheapass. There is a middle ground.
I agree that the men you describe should be avoided at all costs. But how wanting an equal partnership the same as being a deadbeat?
Kellydancer
10-03-2010, 02:30 PM
I have a family member who makes millions and keeps getting with no-count dudes that she loses the house, dogs & cars to when they divorced and has to put the ex-hubby's kids thru college. This ex-hubby always fronted like he was on her level when it was really she who bankrolled his failed businesses. He cheated on her, he pushed for divorce & she paid out bigtime. But "it ain't trickin' if you got it."
I have to ask how she got stuck paying for her ex husband's kids to go to college? If that's true, then that's another reason for a woman not to date a dad. I still don't think a woman should bypass men because of financial reasons. Moochers, yes, guys with jobs who may not expect to pay for everything, no. These guys might actually be the best boyfriends and later husbands.
As I age, I look at potential husbands different than I did boyfriends. Financial isn't one I really look at because it means nothing to me. After all money can disappear and there often comes a times when the bigger breadwinner loses his/her job.
Kisca
10-04-2010, 01:52 PM
I stopped reading after the first page.. but will catch up. I saw different responses.
I live with my ex-boyfriend, the city we live in isn't that nice with money, things do get expensive for a decent place. Condo's here go from 1200 with only one bedroom.. there is an idea.
When we moved in, we agreed that I only pay 25% of the rent. Now my own cell phone, my own other crap (gym, clothes, gas, car) is 100% my responalbity whether I decide to pay or not. While his car, insurance, his cell is his 100% his resonablity. He also pays the internet and cable when I am not not working.
Now when I am working it goes to 50/50 only money-wise. I pay 50% of the rent and add to cable and internet. I dont mind since when I work, I get my own extra spending money, to save, to spend whatever I chose. By then I have another months worth saved up whether I decide to work or not. But when it goes to 25% and 75%, the "female" chores dont really higher on my side. He still helps me clean and does the laundry. While I just do the basic cleaning. As for food, its various, and depends on the meal and the price, sometimes he pays for mine, sometimes I pay for my own (remember we're broken up now and he still pays) He doesnt expect the money back either or a pay-back of some sort.
So in the end I believe, if a female does not pay anything, I do think she needs to help out. Why should it be 0% and 100%. If it is 50/50 then great.. as long as the man knows he also needs to do the crap around the house and does not exept the female to do it all then its great. Overall my opinion on the topic is, I "WANT" to live with a man who pays for everything, but in reality I dont want to end up in a situation like that, because it wont feel right for me and it wont feel as if it is mine to get comfortable in. so I do think the 50/50 rule is the way to go, unless he "offers" to pay or does not take the fullpayment then better. But I wouldnt agree to them to 0% since I always think I am exptected to do something to get on the higher level.
4everresolutions
10-04-2010, 02:16 PM
This topic is.....really interesting. And I see both sides. Really. I do. I LOVE JD's attitude. At the same time, I can't see myself having independence if I let a guy pay for all my living expenses.
Mind you, when it comes to shopping, eating out, etc....I expect him to pay, that's non-negotiable.
Promnesiac
10-04-2010, 03:31 PM
Mind you, when it comes to shopping, eating out, etc....I expect him to pay, that's non-negotiable.
Why? I really want to know, because I can't fathom it. Why shouldn't you pay sometimes? Why does his chromosomal makeup mean that he has to pay for food? It just seems super arbitrary to me. I'm not attacking you, really. Just want to know. :)
Zinaida
10-04-2010, 03:48 PM
Any man that can't provide for me 100% is not the kind of man that I'm going to be attracted to. What a man does for a living, how successful he is and how good he is with money says a LOT about him. If he can't afford to provide for me then he isn't very successful. And if he could afford to provide for me but wouldn't....RED FLAG. Nothing would have me running for the door faster.
Note: I'm not saying money is the only form of success, but it's the kind that I'm attracted to.
Promnesiac
10-04-2010, 03:58 PM
Any man that can't provide for me 100% is not the kind of man that I'm going to be attracted to. What a man does for a living, how successful he is and how good he is with money says a LOT about him. If he can't afford to provide for me then he isn't very successful. And if he could afford to provide for me but wouldn't....RED FLAG. Nothing would have me running for the door faster.
Note: I'm not saying money is the only form of success, but it's the kind that I'm attracted to.
Well, though I don't feel the same, I do appreciate the explanation and understand where you're coming from. Thanks :)
firemaiden04
10-04-2010, 08:01 PM
I don't think it's okay for me to expect my boyfriend to foot the bill any and every time I decide to go on a shopping spree at the mall, or in NYC. My boyfriend works hard for his money, and he saves almost all of it so he can buy a house for us in a year or so. I feel it would be absolutely unacceptable for me to demand he pay for every meal we eat out, and all the bills we have, and every purse or bra or pair of jeans or makeup I decide I want. I can buy my own shit, thank you very much.
charlie61
10-04-2010, 08:17 PM
Any man that can't provide for me 100% is not the kind of man that I'm going to be attracted to. What a man does for a living, how successful he is and how good he is with money says a LOT about him. If he can't afford to provide for me then he isn't very successful. And if he could afford to provide for me but wouldn't....RED FLAG. Nothing would have me running for the door faster.
Note: I'm not saying money is the only form of success, but it's the kind that I'm attracted to.
I would agree with you on the red flag stuff.
But as someone earlier mentioned, the man's ability/desire to pay for things is very different than the woman's expectation that he will, simply because he's a man.
GrlWithTheMost
10-04-2010, 11:05 PM
Any man that can't provide for me 100% is not the kind of man that I'm going to be attracted to. What a man does for a living, how successful he is and how good he is with money says a LOT about him. If he can't afford to provide for me then he isn't very successful. And if he could afford to provide for me but wouldn't....RED FLAG. Nothing would have me running for the door faster.
Note: I'm not saying money is the only form of success, but it's the kind that I'm attracted to.
Agree 100% !!!!!!
Promnesiac
10-04-2010, 11:08 PM
I would agree with you on the red flag stuff.
But as someone earlier mentioned, the man's ability/desire to pay for things is very different than the woman's expectation that he will, simply because he's a man.
Yes to this. I won't like -- I LOVE gifts. But I would never expect them. Really I'd never expect anyone outside of my mom to take care of me.
4everresolutions
10-05-2010, 01:05 AM
Why? I really want to know, because I can't fathom it. Why shouldn't you pay sometimes? Why does his chromosomal makeup mean that he has to pay for food? It just seems super arbitrary to me. I'm not attacking you, really. Just want to know. :)
It's just....what I expect. I know I deserve it.* If he wants to live the kind of lifestyle where we go out to eat at nice restaurants and go shopping for nice things, then he gets to pay....if I wanted to split the bill I could have a nice dinner with my girlfriends. Men....aren't like women. It's a treat for them to get to be in the company of a beautiful, classy woman, and to pamper her. That's the thrill for them - getting to show off who they're with. And if he wants a gal like me, then that's his expense. It's not about chemistry, it's about my sense of self-worth. Like I said, I like my financial independence when it comes to necessities, but when it's luxuries I do expect to be spoiled. I don't want to be with a man who doesn't think I'm worth nice things. I'm going to be upfront and say yes - I do have a sense of entitlement, but that isn't a bad thing.
*Mind you, there are extenuating circumstances. If he's a student and not making $$$, that changes things. I'm talking about men who can afford to spend. If he can't spend then things like rubbing my back, cooking for me, cleaning etc are wonderful....mind you, I don't think I'll date students again. Can't handle it.
4everresolutions
10-05-2010, 01:10 AM
And if he could afford to provide for me but wouldn't....RED FLAG. Nothing would have me running for the door faster.
Note: I'm not saying money is the only form of success, but it's the kind that I'm attracted to.
Exactly. RED FLAG for sure.
And I'm attracted to money as well, but I think it's because I'm attracted to the general personality people who tend to make good money have. Hard working, ambitious and responsible men who have good taste and make calculated decisions. That's what I like.
I just want to win the power ball Lotto, like 200 million, and have a rotation of hot young male models with huge dicks throwing themselves all over me doing whatever I say that I use for sex and arm candy. It goes deeper than that though.... I eventually want kids, so I want a guy with good genetics to knock me up, but I don't want him to have any other part of the child's life, I want to raise my kids completely on my own with no man. /tangent
But yeah, that's how I feel about a man's involvement, financially and otherwise, in my life.
Kellydancer
10-05-2010, 10:52 AM
Yes to this. I won't like -- I LOVE gifts. But I would never expect them. Really I'd never expect anyone outside of my mom to take care of me.
Same here. As for gifts, I believe in them on certain days, such as Christmas and my birthday, but don't expect them all the time. Granted I have dumped guys who didn't buy me birthday and Christmas presents, but that's because we had been dating a while and I got them gifts. To me that's common courtesy because I do the same.
Kellydancer
10-05-2010, 10:59 AM
I eventually want kids, so I want a guy with good genetics to knock me up, but I don't want him to have any other part of the child's life, I want to raise my kids completely on my own with no man. /tangent
This is the saddest thing I've seen here. To have a child with a guy who'll have no part in the child's life is cruel and downright abusive. If you don't want a man in your life then I would consider adopting. Otherwise this upsets me terribly. Children born deserve a mother and a father. I know I am old fashioned because I'd expect a man who knocked me up to marry me, but I was raised like that. I want a man involved if he got me pregnant. I want him to go to the doctor's appointments with me and be amazed when he saw the baby on the sonogram. I want him to hold my hand all through the labor and delivery. I want him to get up with the baby for 3am feedings and diaper changes just like me.
Elvia
10-05-2010, 01:27 PM
J.D., I know you consider yourself empowered, but your attitude seem to hint more at a hatred for men and a complete disregard for the needs and feelings of others. It doesn't sound empowered, it just sounds sick and abusive. Using people doesn't make you a strong person. Quite the opposite.
Autumn Lily
10-05-2010, 03:14 PM
J.D., I know you consider yourself empowered, but your attitude seem to hint more at a hatred for men and a complete disregard for the needs and feelings of others. It doesn't sound empowered, it just sounds sick and abusive. Using people doesn't make you a strong person. Quite the opposite.
JD, didn't you once get upset because a man kept telling you he wanted to date you because you "looked good on his arm"? You're saying you'd pretty much do exactly what he did, only to other men.
kandie_kitten
10-05-2010, 03:27 PM
I don't know where this attitude that men don't have feelings, and should pay for the priviledge of our company came from. That's one thing when we're working the club, but for an actual relationship, that's just bizarre to me.
Guys have feelings, and they deserve the same respect and courtesy you demand. Lord, my boyfriend is an amazing person, but *gasp of horror* he makes less money than me. This doesn't mean he's a bum, it means his passion just happens to be a lower pay grade. But he goes to work happy, and is energized at the end of the day. I much prefer that than someone who hates his job and is miserable, but pulls in six figures.
I could never respect a man who paid for everything and let me mooch off of him. That to me shows he has no self-respect, and feels like he has to buy affection. That's just pathetic. It also doesn't seem to be the strongest basis for a long-term relationship, it seems like more of a business exchange.
I am all for women equality, but there's that word equal. That means I want the same rights, but not extra bonuses either.
DesuvsDeath
10-05-2010, 03:43 PM
I don't pay for anything.
Once or twice when he was out of cash, I gave him cash to pay for things... but he pays me back... and then continues to pay for everything. ...Because he's a man... and that's what he's supposed to do.
Unless both parties work and have a joint account from which everything is paid... I don't think women should be paying for rent/bills. That's called having a roommate.
For those of you who think the man should pay for everything, do you think you should do all the chores? To me everything should be 50/50 and that includes chores. However, if someone is paying more of the bills, then the other should do more bills. I'd expect this.
Do I think I should do all the chores? For the most part. Yes.
If it's something like moving boxes around, I make him help. Otherwise... I do it all. Even if I worked... I'd probably STILL do it all. He could never get anything clean enough for me to be satisfied with it anyway. :P
_Avery_
10-05-2010, 03:45 PM
He could never get anything clean enough for me to be satisfied with it anyway. :P
lmao, that's exactly how I am.
I've given up on getting my husband to clean. It ends up being MORE work for me..lol
Kellydancer
10-05-2010, 03:45 PM
I don't know where this attitude that men don't have feelings, and should pay for the priviledge of our company came from. That's one thing when we're working the club, but for an actual relationship, that's just bizarre to me.
Guys have feelings, and they deserve the same respect and courtesy you demand. Lord, my boyfriend is an amazing person, but *gasp of horror* he makes less money than me. This doesn't mean he's a bum, it means his passion just happens to be a lower pay grade. But he goes to work happy, and is energized at the end of the day. I much prefer that than someone who hates his job and is miserable, but pulls in six figures.
I could never respect a man who paid for everything and let me mooch off of him. That to me shows he has no self-respect, and feels like he has to buy affection. That's just pathetic. It also doesn't seem to be the strongest basis for a long-term relationship, it seems like more of a business exchange.
I am all for women equality, but there's that word equal. That means I want the same rights, but not extra bonuses either.
For some unexplained reason many women will not date a guy who makes less. I have no problem dating a guy making less and in reality if I end up with the guy I hope I will be the bigger breadwinner. I am perfectly fine with this because then that means we'll share things like housework equally.
I think some of the women who think it's great to mooch off men have worked far too long in the business and it's gone to their heads. I will be the first to admit I've used (if you want to call it that) guys at clubs I worked at. I often lead them on, making them think I wanted more. Perhaps it was wrong, but as far as I was concerned I was lending them my ear and my body (or rather their view of my body) in return for money. Outside of the club this was never the case. I could have used guys for dating but chose not to because it would be wrong.
Promnesiac
10-05-2010, 03:46 PM
Because he's a man... and that's what he's supposed to do.
Says whom? Where does this idea even come from? Wait, I know. It comes from the dawn of time, when you also wouldn't have been allowed to work, get an education, or vote.
But that's ok, because women aren't supposed to do that.
DesuvsDeath
10-05-2010, 03:59 PM
Says whom? Where does this idea even come from? Wait, I know. It comes from the dawn of time, when you also wouldn't have been allowed to work, get an education, or vote.
But that's ok, because women aren't supposed to do that.
Says me. At least where my life is concerned.
Sorry. But a man who can't provide is useless to me.
I'd rather live alone and pay for my own shit than to pay to keep some guy around for companionship.
What if I have children? Should I keep working 40+ hours a week to pay for half of everything and let them be raised by a nanny? To fit in with everyone's opinion on what a "modern" woman should do?
girlfromipanema
10-05-2010, 04:00 PM
I eventually want kids, so I want a guy with good genetics to knock me up, but I don't want him to have any other part of the child's life, I want to raise my kids completely on my own with no man. /tangent
Your convictions are based on your life experiences. People will have their opinions but they haven't walked in your shoes. Maybe you haven't met a man who did you any good thus far. This doensn't by any means indicate that you should forego motherhood if you want it. You wouldn't be the first one to arrange for a sperm donor, nor the last.
Children are raised in all sorts of scenarios these days and the traditional nuclear family is fast becomming a rarity given high divorce rates and unplanned pregnancies. I was raised by a single mother and I am pretty well adjusted, and so are many individuals. As long as your baby is loved and cared for by the people in its life, you can conceive it anyway you choose.
Elvia
10-05-2010, 04:04 PM
^^^ Somehow I doubt that a baby that's raised by someone who treats males as playthings to be used, abused and disposed of will end up "well adjusted."
Promnesiac
10-05-2010, 04:05 PM
What if I have children? Should I keep working 40+ hours a week to pay for half of everything and let them be raised by a nanny? To fit in with everyone's opinion on what a "modern" woman should do?
No I hear you on the kids thing. But when you *don't* have kids, why is he obligated to pay?
I guess the disconnect here is that I can't comprehend what genitalia have to do with financial responsibility. I totally respect your right to have that view (and if I seemed like I'm attacking, I'm not) but it seems so arbitrary to me.
Promnesiac
10-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Children are raised in all sorts of scenarios these days and the traditional nuclear family is fast becomming a rarity given high divorce rates and unplanned pregnancies. I was raised by a single mother and I am pretty well adjusted, and so are many individuals. As long as your baby is loved and cared for by the people in its life, you can conceive it anyway you choose.
^^^ Somehow I doubt that a baby that's raised by someone who treats males as playthings to be used, abused and disposed of will end up "well adjusted."
I tend to skew so hard toward single-parenthood that I genuinely think it's BETTER for a child to be raised by just a mother. Now that's obviously my own silly bias. So, yeah, of course, having two parents or ten parents has nothing to do with whether or not a child will end up happy and well-adjusted.
But being raised to believe that one sex is useless and less deserving of respect is a problem. What if a single dad wanted to raise his son to believe that women aren't good as anything but a warm hole?
girlfromipanema
10-05-2010, 04:16 PM
^^^ Somehow I doubt that a baby that's raised by someone who treats males as playthings to be used, abused and disposed of will end up "well adjusted."
I don't know if she wants to abuse them, but she did say she wanted to use them for sex and arm candy and would rather do the childrearing without a father present. The part about the hot men arm candy was also a lotto fantasy if I'm not mistaken, be it a colorful one. I don't think that post truly reflects what kind of mother she would be at all.
Elvia
10-05-2010, 04:25 PM
^^^ I'm taking into account comments she has made for months if not years that show an overall disregard for men's feeling and well being, if not an outright sadistic thrill at hurting them. But I don't want to make this thread all about JD so I'll let that go now.
Elvia
10-05-2010, 04:29 PM
...after this commentary, that is.
I would expect a guy to pay for everything if I was living with him. It's a privilege that he gets to exist in my presence.
Just reverse that a bit: "I would expect a woman to do all my cleaning and cooking if I was living with her. It's a privilege that she gets to exist in my presence."
Doesn't seem so nice and innocent all of a sudden, does it? I have no idea why you would thank such a sexist degrading comment.
charlie61
10-05-2010, 04:32 PM
^ I'm trying to be open-minded, but I find myself with the same opinion. I just don't get it.
DesuvsDeath
10-05-2010, 05:01 PM
As far as the role that gender plays in financial responsibility... if I were to over-simplify things I'd go with a simple "statistically, men make more money" pov...
But I suppose it's mostly personal reasons, combined with a few personal observations...
Like how I've never met a stay-at-home man who wasn't just lazy (didn't cook or clean either). How most of the stay-at-home men I've seen are constantly pressuring their girlfriends/wives to make more money so that they can spend it on themselves (as opposed to spending it on both of them or because they actually need more money). Or how most of the men I've met who wanted to stay home seem to only want to move in together so they can quit their job. It honestly just seems like a lot of men who want to be provided for are losers.
If a woman is comfortable being the sole provider... and it works... that's fine for them. I just personally would have a problem with that in my own life. I wouldn't want to provide for someone who is probably more physically capable of working and likely to make more money than me.
girlfromipanema
10-05-2010, 05:09 PM
Being that I don't know anything of J.D., I thought the comment was cheeky and reflected that she may be a no-bullshit kind of girl who thinks highly of herself. I tend to not take comments like "I hate men" or "he should kiss the ground I walk on" too literally.
Being that I don't know anything of J.D., I thought the comment was cheeky and reflected that she may be a no-bullshit kind of girl who thinks highly of herself. I tend to not take comments like "I hate men" or "he should kiss the ground I walk on" too literally.
ha ha yes you're right! I was very very very good to my ex boyfriend, and every guy I've ever dated. Those of you from here whom have met me in real life know that I am actually a really sweet person, to my friends and to guys I date, as long as they are deserving.
I do stand behind being an independently wealthy single mom though, I want to have kids, but raise them with the help of my family, parents, sisters, etc. I don't want to deal with a cheating husband or potentially dead beat dad to my children. I would rather be happy and established all on my own with my own support group of family and friends and bring a child into the world that way. In the meantime though I still want the young hot male models with big dicks to play with :)
^^^ I'm taking into account comments she has made for months if not years that show an overall disregard for men's feeling and well being, if not an outright sadistic thrill at hurting them. But I don't want to make this thread all about JD so I'll let that go now.
I do get a sadistic thrill out of hurting guys...... piece of shit dirtbag guys who I meet at the strip club and deserve it. Call me jaded or fucked in the head, whatever, but when you have guys with wedding bands on and newborn babies or pregnant wives at home trying so hard to pressure you into and pay you to go back to their hotel rooms and fuck them, you tend to develop a hatred, and get a sick pleasure from fucking them over in any way possible, and I gain an enormous sense of empowerment from this.
I tend to skew so hard toward single-parenthood that I genuinely think it's BETTER for a child to be raised by just a mother. Now that's obviously my own silly bias. So, yeah, of course, having two parents or ten parents has nothing to do with whether or not a child will end up happy and well-adjusted.
But being raised to believe that one sex is useless and less deserving of respect is a problem. What if a single dad wanted to raise his son to believe that women aren't good as anything but a warm hole?
I would never instill derogatory values about males into my children, I would just want them to grow up knowing they don't necessarily need a man to find happiness in life, it can grow from within yourself.
Nuclear Martini
10-05-2010, 05:41 PM
I believe this matter is a cultural thing, and not a "we need to be strong and independant" thing. For some ladies they feel obligated to pay their half for whatever reason, and other ladies are more traditional.
Its also a matter of being old fashioned. Chances are our father's and uncle's never expected their serious GFs or wives to pay "their half".
I don't have a problem paying my half but besides my dancer past I am very traditional. I am from a traditional family, from a conservative (yet politically liberal) city with old fashion values.
If you live with your SO, and want to have kids one day, most likely the woman will not be able to work or not work as much as the man because of pregnancy and having an infant in the house. If a man isn't at least willing to take care of you at some point, you should question how serious he is about you or about having a future with you (that is assuming you may one day want a family).
JD, didn't you once get upset because a man kept telling you he wanted to date you because you "looked good on his arm"? You're saying you'd pretty much do exactly what he did, only to other men.
yeah I mean, that's the game, unfortunately, until I meet a guy that proves me otherwise I will continue to play these stupid abusive games with this dumb fucks. I treat guys back how they treat me. That particular guy, I milked him dry, I took quite a bit of his money by going along with his stupid game and being his "pretend girlfriend" When I meet a guy that truly respects me and wants to get to know ME, I will in turn respect him.
I was talking about getting this one guy to pay for some cosmetic surgery I want, and my new boss was like, "Don't you feel bad leading these guys on and playing with their hearts for your own gain?" I don't at all. I met them at the strip club, they came in to see my tits and ass, they never really gave a shit about me at all, so whatever, I just play along and use them back.
Promnesiac
10-05-2010, 06:09 PM
I would never instill derogatory values about males into my children, I would just want them to grow up knowing they don't necessarily need a man to find happiness in life, it can grow from within yourself.
I heartily endorse that view. :)
Arialandre
10-05-2010, 06:25 PM
As far as the role that gender plays in financial responsibility... if I were to over-simplify things I'd go with a simple "statistically, men make more money" pov...
But I suppose it's mostly personal reasons, combined with a few personal observations...
Like how I've never met a stay-at-home man who wasn't just lazy (didn't cook or clean either). How most of the stay-at-home men I've seen are constantly pressuring their girlfriends/wives to make more money so that they can spend it on themselves (as opposed to spending it on both of them or because they actually need more money). Or how most of the men I've met who wanted to stay home seem to only want to move in together so they can quit their job. It honestly just seems like a lot of men who want to be provided for are losers.
If a woman is comfortable being the sole provider... and it works... that's fine for them. I just personally would have a problem with that in my own life. I wouldn't want to provide for someone who is probably more physically capable of working and likely to make more money than me.
Ok I just want to say to this. When my bf lost his job (stupid economy) he became a stay at home boyfriend. And he was PERFECT. I came home EVER day to a newly scrubbed house, dinner just being finished up and ready to go on the table, back rubs, new movies that I had been dieing to see downloaded for me so that we could snuggle on the coach and watch movies together after dinner. He was the best stay at home boyfriend ever. Then he went back to work and he STILL cleans more than me I swear to god. Right this second he's making home made chilli and making me chilli cheese fries :D. He goes grocery shopping. He NEVER presured me to make more money. Stood behind me when I quit my job and pays the bills with a smile on his face when I couldn't. Not all stay at home guys are shady lazeabouts. I just hope that gives you a little hope that if for some unforseen reason the economy tanks and your high paying men lose their jobs they might be just as awesome in the home as in the boardroom! :D
Elvia
10-05-2010, 06:37 PM
^^^ I have to agree as well. My husband was a "homemaker" in a previous relationship for awhile when he was in between jobs. He loved it, because it involved all his interests. He loves cooking, decorating, organizing, gardening, even cleaning. He works many more hours than I do, and he's still so much better at keeping house than I am. I could spend hours trying to organize and re-arrange things, then he'll come home, take a quick look around, and in 20 minutes he's undone everything I've done and put it together better than I ever could have imagined. It really made me appreciate the value of domestic work. It really adds so much to your life to come home to a well made, relaxing home and a good home cooked meal.
4everresolutions
10-05-2010, 06:44 PM
Eh, forget it. I don't have to explain. I like things the way I like them. Every man I've ever had has been wholeheartedly happy with me, and I was happy too. That's all that matters.
charlie61
10-05-2010, 07:01 PM
I do get a sadistic thrill out of hurting guys...... piece of shit dirtbag guys who I meet at the strip club and deserve it. Call me jaded or fucked in the head, whatever, but when you have guys with wedding bands on and newborn babies or pregnant wives at home trying so hard to pressure you into and pay you to go back to their hotel rooms and fuck them, you tend to develop a hatred, and get a sick pleasure from fucking them over in any way possible, and I gain an enormous sense of empowerment from this.
I must admit, your attitude makes me want to work at the SC 5 nights a week and make shitloads of money. So it seems that that would be a very helpful perspective for financial gain. Maybe SW should set up a service (for a monthly fee) where J.D. will personally call you and talk shit about men until you go into work? }:D