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MarvelGirl
12-17-2010, 08:40 PM
haha.hahaha. mmkay,whatever.

and what is "my kind?" I care for my son deeply,and he means more than the world to me,and I don't need to explain that to ANYONE,especially someone like you who isn't worth my time,so you can take your rude nasty comment and shove it up your ass.

No one said that you don't love your son. I said that you don't love all these unborn children because you simply demand that they be born and you don't seem to care what happens to them afterwards. That's a very common attitude amongst other people such as yourself who claim not to be judgemental but then call women baby murderers.

I did not make a rude, nasty comment to you. You in fact, made them to me. You said that all of the women on this board who disagreed with you would change their minds when we had children. Some of us already have children, so your comment implies that we do not love the children we have.

You also suggested that anyone who has sex without wanting a child is wrong somehow. Telling someone that they are wrong to have sex with their spouse is a pretty nasty comment to make. Are you married? Do you and your husband plan on being celibate once you've produced all of the babies you can afford to bring into this world? Because, as you said, birth control sometimes fails.

Spankie55
12-17-2010, 08:51 PM
I now realize what the problem is, you're not smart enough for this argument. No one said that you don't love your son. I said that you don't love all these unborn children because you simply demand that they be born and you don't seem to care what happens to them afterwards. That's a very common attitude amongst other people such as yourself who claim not to be judgemental but then call women baby murderers.

I did not make a rude, nasty comment to you. You in fact, made them to me. You said that all of the women on this board who disagreed with you would change their minds when we had children. Some of us already have children, so your comment implies that we do not love the children we have.

You also suggested that anyone who has sex without wanting a child is wrong somehow. Telling someone that they are wrong to have sex with their spouse is a pretty nasty comment to make. Are you married? Do you are your husband plan on being celibate once you've produced all of the babies you can afford to bring into this world? Because, as you said, birth control sometimes fails.



1-I love all children,and I care about happens to every child. Even the ones who haven't been born yet.
2- You obviously took my comment the wrong way. I was implying that my view on abortion changed when I had my son. How that has any indication that I said you don't love your kids..? I'm so confused how you made that connection..
3-I'm in a relationship,and not ready for another child. So my decision is not to have sex. Go fuck your husband all day for all I care. If you don't want anymore kids,get a reliable source of birth control,but don't be all like "WTF" if you accidently get pregnant.

I'm done. not checking this thread anymore.

MarvelGirl
12-17-2010, 08:53 PM
1-I love all children,and I care about happens to every child. Even the ones who haven't been born yet.
2- You obviously took my comment the wrong way. I was implying that my view on abortion changed when I had my son. How that has any indication that I said you don't love your kids..? I'm so confused how you made that connection..
3-I'm in a relationship,and not ready for another child. So my decision is not to have sex. Go fuck your husband all day for all I care. If you don't want anymore kids,get a reliable source of birth control,but don't be all like "WTF" if you accidently get pregnant. You'd have to be dumb to think that it could never happen. seriously.
I'm done. not checking this thread anymore.

You said that all of us who disagreed with you would change our minds when we looked into our child's faces.
So, I still disagree with you. Do you think I've never looked into my childs face.
I use birth control. YOU said that birth control fails and that people should stop having sex if they don't want more children.

firemaiden04
12-17-2010, 08:56 PM
^^ you said you were pro-choice earlier. How the hell do you figure that?

Spankie55
12-17-2010, 09:15 PM
^^ you said you were pro-choice earlier. How the hell do you figure that?

I am pro choice. I believe a woman has the right to do what she wants with her body,and I don't believe the government or even I should have the right to tell someone otherwise(even though sometimes i can be very invasive with my opinions,and I apologize deeply for that) Abortion should never be made illegal,nor will it EVER be illegal.
Abortion just isn't right for me. It makes me sad to think about it. I was raised poor,but still had a very happy child hood,and I feel blessed as shit to be here in this world. My mom was in no way ready to have me,but she did anyways,and I thank that beautiful woman sitting across from me at the dinner table for keeping me :)

That's my point.
If abortion seem like the right option for you,then you should do it. No sense in arguing about it. You're gonna do what you wanna do.

Djoser
12-17-2010, 09:41 PM
OK I am at work and don't have too much time now. I tried to clean it up a bit while leaving the opinions.

It's a heated topic, and easy to get upset. So please, try to be cool...

Kellydancer
12-17-2010, 11:09 PM
To answer the question, yes one can be pro choice and personally against abortion. This means that a person doesn't want to see abortion become illegal, but at the same time they don't like what it is. For instance no I don't like the act of abortion, because it is terrible to me, however this something can be needed in many cases and to others they may not think it's terrible. Some people consider a life at conception, some don't until the fetus is viable, for others it varies if they want it or not. I don't not want to see restrictions on abortion. I am against parental consent because not all girls can talk to their parents about this. I realize myself that I am more prolife than I realize. When I was talking to the guy I want to be with he called me "more prolife than prochoice" because I flat out told him if I get pregnant I am having our baby (and expect him to marry me). Does this truly make me pro life? Who knows.

I will say though that there is variables with this topic. I had a teacher who truly was pro life. He was opposed to abortion, but him and his wife took in unwed mothers. He really was a good person and never sid his view was right or wrong, just right for him. He wasn't protesting abortion. With this topic there really are the extremes. The extreme pro life who never support abortion and the extreme pro choice who see no problem using it as birth control. Neither extreme is right.

GlitterBexie
12-18-2010, 07:57 AM
Just to confirm; i felt selfish for not wanting the child that i lost, wasnt saying that abortion in itself is selfish.

And if i found out i was pregnant now then i wouldnt want the child, it would have been a 'mistake' as i take birth control etc and it wouldnt be fair to bring a child into MY world whom i wasnt prepared to want.

My bf was the result of his mother losing her virginity, he wasnt wanted and has been told he was a 'mistake' because she was 16 and nieve at the time. Whilst he laughs about it with others, he resents it because he spent most of his formative years feeling not necessarily unloved, but defiently unwanted, and it has had a real psychological affect on him and his family still. I deal with the fallout from this now and i know i wouldnt choose to bring a child into our little world when the childs mother (me) was unstable and the father (him) wasnt ready. Im not saying i couldnt deal with a getting pregnant, having a baby and it growing up into a child, i would be a great mum im sure (lol) and i would love a child regardless and unconditionally. Im saying i wouldnt choose to want to right now, which i personally feel is selfish of me, as it wouldnt be the baby's fault.

Spankie55
12-18-2010, 09:36 AM
To answer the question, yes one can be pro choice and personally against abortion. This means that a person doesn't want to see abortion become illegal, but at the same time they don't like what it is. For instance no I don't like the act of abortion, because it is terrible to me, however this something can be needed in many cases and to others they may not think it's terrible. Some people consider a life at conception, some don't until the fetus is viable, for others it varies if they want it or not. I don't not want to see restrictions on abortion. I am against parental consent because not all girls can talk to their parents about this. I realize myself that I am more prolife than I realize. When I was talking to the guy I want to be with he called me "more prolife than prochoice" because I flat out told him if I get pregnant I am having our baby (and expect him to marry me). Does this truly make me pro life? Who knows.

I will say though that there is variables with this topic. I had a teacher who truly was pro life. He was opposed to abortion, but him and his wife took in unwed mothers. He really was a good person and never sid his view was right or wrong, just right for him. He wasn't protesting abortion. With this topic there really are the extremes. The extreme pro life who never support abortion and the extreme pro choice who see no problem using it as birth control. Neither extreme is right.

This is exactly how I feel. I don't think anyone "likes" abortion. i'm sure someone who is 100% pro choice doesn't "like" it. No one says, "I looove abortion" The real issue here is whether or not you believe that it is okay to have one if an unwanted pregnancy comes up. I will never have an abortion,regardless of the situation,but i understand now that not every woman thinks like I do.
Sometimes I can get very emotional with my opinions,especially when it comes to children.

MarvelGirl
12-18-2010, 11:53 AM
I think it's funny that the first person on these thread who attacks someone else's opinion is the same person who ends up crying and screeching about how she can think however she wants and she's entitled to her opinion.

I just realized that always happens on abortion threads on this site. That's pretty interesting.

shift_6x
12-18-2010, 12:25 PM
Too many people have kids who are born into situations where the parent or parents can not provide a very good life for the child. This is why I do not what kids right now or perhaps ever. Personally I know I dont have mentally, or financially what it takes to raise a child and give it a decent environment to grow up in. Thats so important. I wouldnt want my child to suffer bc of my downfalls. I know some people say''Well u just make it work"..Well I dont want to go on welfare to get by. And thats what Id prolly have to do. Therefore I do believe in abortions. Athough getting numerous abortions isnt the best thing in my opinion, if the situation requires one then I support the action.

shift_6x
12-18-2010, 12:30 PM
Frankly, I don't see how it is selfish. If anything, it is the complete opposite. It is actually selfish to a bring a child into this world, and not be prepared to give them the best possible life. A woman with multiple baby daddies, no money, leeching off of government cheese, who drinks/smokes in front of the kids, brings home strange men in front of the kids, doesn't make sure they go to school everyday, gets them clothes from the goodwill, let's the tv babysit them, and feeds them nothing but mac and cheese and cereal... She has no business having a kid.

Now I know that is an extreme case, but that is just one of many examples. I think people who consciously make the decision to have an abortion aren't always trying to take an easy way out. There is nothing easy about it. It is a difficult decision to make. But they know that they are in no position to have a kid, and they gave it some thought. They are doing that child a favor really.

A lot of those kids in the above mentioned scenario grow up to be lowlifes in prison. I know some would manage to overcome this obstacle, but many don't. People do not need to keep producing more assholes that turn into sex offenders, gangsters, pimps, and other unsavory characters.

I wish my parents put more thought into actually having me. They weren't neglectful like the above mentioned scenario, but they had me for the wrong reasons. So the whole, "What if your mother aborted you" argument doesn't stand. If she did abort me, I wouldn't know about it. It isn't as if I would still be on the cabbage patch crying to the stork as to why she didn't let him deliver me to her lmao. I would have no consciousness of it.

Putting a kid up for adoption as someone said earlier, isn't always a good idea. They could spend their whole life in state custody and become a deliquent. Or in some terrible cases they get sexually abused in the foster home. Either way, they spend their whole lives wanting to know why their mother didn't want them. Why put a human being through that. THAT is selfish right there.






I have to say this is very well put. I completely agree with what u r saying here and ur point of view.

ManyRoses
12-18-2010, 01:24 PM
I, personally, have a very different situation to many people - I am able to conceive a child, but I cannot carry to term, and due to various medical issues - the attempt to carry a child would almost certainly kill me. This breaks my damn heart, and more so because I still have to worry about becoming pregnant and having to abort (when I say having, I mean that this is a doctors recommendation and begins to fall into the category of deeply religious people refusing blood transfusions - many doctors will attempt to override the decision and force an abortion for my own safety). Luckily, I have not yet had to do this, but it is always a possibility. (Unless I take some of the advice on this board, and never have sex! Right...)

In general, I am fully of the opinion that a woman should be able to abort a child (though I would hope that they were using some form of birth control and so it was unexpected) and while it may be "selfish" to choose your own life over the life of an unborn child, I don't actually think that this is a bad thing! "Selfishness" in many ways can be a good thing! It is similarly "selfish" to leave an abusive relationship - stop trying to help or fix some man who could probably be a good person with enough help. It is "selfish" to choose to cut people from your life who are damaging to you. But by being "selfish" in these ways, you are making yourself a better, happier and more capable person, and therefore you are not transferring anger or despair on to other people. I am a firm believer that peace, and that a healthy society cannot be created with legislature or government, but by the individual emotional and mental health of every member of the population, and by making difficult decisions to become an actualized (to use a fantastic psych term!) individual, you are contributing to the health of society.

I hope that makes sense and didn't wander too far from the topic!!

oxSkylarxo
12-19-2010, 05:09 AM
I will purchase clothes from Good Will and (when not pregnant) have a beer in front of my son. If he's in the backyard playing (again, when I'm not pregnant), I will have a cigarette.

I really don't think he's going to grow up to be a sex offender or a low life because I don't always buy his clothes brand new or because I will have a drink while relaxing on the couch. Or have a cigarette while he's riding his bike in the backyard.


Maybe I took that the wrong way. Maybe you meant all of them combined.

I've just heard "omg, because you're a mom, you can't drink, smoke, strip, be sexy have a life...etc, etc," before. That just bugs me.

I'm sorry. I mean't all of them combined. Besides, there is a difference between being thrifty and having a beer. I mean't being an alcoholic and you buy the kid's clothes from Goodwill because you waste your money on dope, cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, etc. Or because you won't get a job and you rather just leech off of tax payers or whatever.

jules477
12-20-2010, 12:08 AM
dam, i started some chaos with this thread.......i hope im not preg right now....hopefully have my period before this month is over!! i have been peeing A LOT. it wouldbe my ex's. fml

livingdeadgirl
12-20-2010, 07:33 AM
dam, i started some chaos with this thread.......i hope im not preg right now....hopefully have my period before this month is over!! i have been peeing A LOT. it wouldbe my ex's. fml

ut oh! crossin my fingers for you that your not!!

FiendishGyrator
12-22-2010, 05:05 AM
I kind of wonder how other cultures view abortions, because as I get older and start to think in less Western-world Catholic terms, I see it as ridiculous that if you view a fetus as a person, and they are aborted, that they will never have another chance AGAIN! It's like *gasp* ohmiGod!

Whereas, I feel that energy never dies-- you can kill the body of a person, and perhaps they return in terms of reincarnation, or else there is a heaven and a hell. In the case of aborting a fetus, I somehow find it silly to think that they wouldn't then have a shot at coming back to parents who could actually love and support them.

And even if there were no reincarnation, a pregnancy is not a "living with the consequences" type situation for the mother (and hopefully, the father.) It's a living with the consequences situation for the BABY. If the baby cannot be supported, while adoption may be an option (though I have to wonder because adoption is so expensive in the US, I have to wonder if there are kids who are sucked into the foster system because adoption is so expensive) then I highly doubt, if aborted, its going to hell. But, if carried to term to people who cannot support it in the way a baby NEEDS to be supported, it could very well be condemned to a living hell.

So, in my mind, it's either reincarnated to a family that hopefully can love and support it more than you (potential aborter) can, or Heaven.

Kind of a win-win, if you ask me.

Kellydancer
12-22-2010, 12:02 PM
I kind of wonder how other cultures view abortions, because as I get older and start to think in less Western-world Catholic terms, I see it as ridiculous that if you view a fetus as a person, and they are aborted, that they will never have another chance AGAIN! It's like *gasp* ohmiGod!

Whereas, I feel that energy never dies-- you can kill the body of a person, and perhaps they return in terms of reincarnation, or else there is a heaven and a hell. In the case of aborting a fetus, I somehow find it silly to think that they wouldn't then have a shot at coming back to parents who could actually love and support them.

And even if there were no reincarnation, a pregnancy is not a "living with the consequences" type situation for the mother (and hopefully, the father.) It's a living with the consequences situation for the BABY. If the baby cannot be supported, while adoption may be an option (though I have to wonder because adoption is so expensive in the US, I have to wonder if there are kids who are sucked into the foster system because adoption is so expensive) then I highly doubt, if aborted, its going to hell. But, if carried to term to people who cannot support it in the way a baby NEEDS to be supported, it could very well be condemned to a living hell.

So, in my mind, it's either reincarnated to a family that hopefully can love and support it more than you (potential aborter) can, or Heaven.

Kind of a win-win, if you ask me.

Regarding the adoption thing, it depends on the child. If it's a newborn white child without any problems there will be couples clamoring to adopt. If it's a newborn black child less so, but still has a chance for adoption (this is due to the increase in middle and upper middle class black families). However if the child is older, disabled, or a minority on top of it they have a less chance for adoption.I can't speak for other states, but in Illinois there is special assistance programs to adopt a "special needs" child (which doesn't always mean disabled). There are actually quite a few of these kids, which is something I've always considered.

The one thing I've always been annoyed about is the idea that someone is aborting a future doctor, scientist, etc. The reality is MOST abortions happen with women of lesser means or teens. These fetuses aren't likely to become professional jobs, and might end up being criminals.

firemaiden04
12-22-2010, 04:20 PM
The one thing I've always been annoyed about is the idea that someone is aborting a future doctor, scientist, etc. The reality is MOST abortions happen with women of lesser means or teens. These fetuses aren't likely to become professional jobs, and might end up being criminals.

Uh, I don't really think that's a fair statement. You're basically saying that the only women who would ever abort are probably trash and too poor to support the kid anyways, and the kid wouldn't amount to anything. Wealth does NOT equate intelligence in this world. I've known lots of people who were born into terrible situations and made something of themselves. My godmother's best friend was born in a really bad black ghetto in Arkansas and barely had enough to eat when she was growing up. She had two kids when she was pretty young. She made a lot of sacrifices and ended up getting through school, and now she's a women's basketball coach for Texas A&M, which is pretty huge if you know basketball.

I've had an abortion, and my family is pretty affluent, and I'm fairly intelligent. I didn't have the kid cause I didn't want to, and I definitely wasn't ready, and I'm very glad I made the decision I did. I was almost 20 at the time. But if I HAD decided to have the kid, I don't think it would have ended up a criminal.

Kellydancer
12-23-2010, 12:01 AM
Uh, I don't really think that's a fair statement. You're basically saying that the only women who would ever abort are probably trash and too poor to support the kid anyways, and the kid wouldn't amount to anything. Wealth does NOT equate intelligence in this world. I've known lots of people who were born into terrible situations and made something of themselves. My godmother's best friend was born in a really bad black ghetto in Arkansas and barely had enough to eat when she was growing up. She had two kids when she was pretty young. She made a lot of sacrifices and ended up getting through school, and now she's a women's basketball coach for Texas A&M, which is pretty huge if you know basketball.

I've had an abortion, and my family is pretty affluent, and I'm fairly intelligent. I didn't have the kid cause I didn't want to, and I definitely wasn't ready, and I'm very glad I made the decision I did. I was almost 20 at the time. But if I HAD decided to have the kid, I don't think it would have ended up a criminal.

No not the only women, but a huge percentage who abort are single women. I base this on a study from awhile back that states crime would be higher if abortion was illegal. Intelligence has nothing to do with wealth and I never said that. However the reality is a poor kid from the ghetto has a less chance of being a scientist than a wealthier kid. No it's not fair but it's how it is. Things need to change for these kids but they have a huge disadvantage.

FiendishGyrator
12-23-2010, 06:12 AM
^The book Freakonomics had a chapter about how crime went down seemingly inexplicably by a significant amount 15-20 years after Roe v. Wade.

While it is true that anyone can become a criminal or something really useful to society at large, there are common denominators.

Also, I knew a white guy who'd been given up for adoption and I think bounced around a couple foster homes. I never heard exactly what happened to him, but when we were talking about the idea of having kids (we were pretty young, around seventeen, so this wasn't a discussion of he and I having kids but just in general having kids in the far future) he very firmly stated that if he couldn't care for the kid, he would rather abort it than have it go through what he went through.

Now, people can swear up and down all day that abortion doesn't give kids a chance (see my earlier post re: reincarnation) but this is why it's an individual decision. There are people here who've been adopted or known someone who's been adopted or fostered, and can say "adoption before abortion always or in most cases." But then there are other people who view it differently. This is why it is so necessary that we have these discussions, but more importantly, that we have the option for each person to decide for themselves what is right for them and their potential child. In some cases that means birth, sometimes that means abortion. Valuing a potential child above the overall life of the mother (and in some cases father), and to a certain degree society at large (welfare babies. why do we help support people getting pregnant who cannot support themselves?) is, to me, senseless.

GlitterBexie
12-26-2010, 03:35 PM
I dont necessarily agree that children born to young mothers or single mothers are always more likely to become ''criminal''. One of my friends had her first child at 17, is now 24 and has had two more since. She is married (to the father of all three) and lives happily, works and owns their own home. Reason being she has a family who were able to support her financially and didnt judge. They are a heavily religious but incredibly loving and understanding family.

I know from my working experience that just being born into a single parent family or to a young mother isnt a bad thing. I (personally) think its got more to do with the ethics and morals of the support system of the mother. If a criminal lifestyle is seen to be the norm then the child is statistically more likely to become involved in it too, not just cause his Mum was young/alone when she had him. Im not saying that single parents with no support system means that the child will defiently turn out to be a criminal, im just saying that the secondary influences are a factor in how the child is subsequently brought up and what they are exposed to. Hope i make sense! xx

flickad
12-26-2010, 11:25 PM
Never been preggers (I'm a birth control pedant, and, in fact, a pedant in general), but would have an abortion if I was, fo sho. Very pro-choice, is me.

flickad
12-26-2010, 11:29 PM
ok...

a) im tired of the "what if your mother" argument. Actually, I am tired of the baseless and purely guilt driven arguments that anti-abortionists push. I use the term anti-abortionists, because I think the whole "pro-life" thing is simply another way to guilt people.

b) not everyone sees the bundle of cells and then fetus, as a child. I certainly don't. hell, technically and biologically speaking, it is a parasite (look up the biological definition of a parasite). I dont say that to seem mean, i just say it point out that not everyone sees it as a child.

c) and no, "deep down" i do not have to agree. i dont think it is selfish.

The what if your mother argument can be extended to Frau Hitler and Mrs. Stalin also. It doesn't wash, in my view.