View Full Version : How to Change Streamate and MAKE them pay you more.
sweetheather
07-11-2011, 01:43 PM
Calling am the lesser evil is laughable. In practice, am is the biggest ripoff and I really feel like us models get shot from them. Mfc has a shot contract, but in practicce the models get a way better set up.
twigs
07-11-2011, 01:58 PM
A better set up when the majority of models on MFC aren't making anything close to serious pay and the contract is total fraud. I could understand how some might think that simply because some models are making some serious money on MFC that that would justify them having to be indentured in what has to be one of the worst contracts in adult entertainment today BUT there are people who might disagree.
Bambalina
07-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Everyone agrees the contract is bad, but they don't DO the things that SM does...they don;t advertise on Child porn sites, they don't sell their models's privates, they don't own tube sites and populate them with Model Content with NO renumeration, and most of all...
If a man on MFC spends $100, the girl will get about $58, if a guy on SM spends $100, the girl gets $35...Period. It's just truth.
I agree that it might be harder to get it on MFC for some girls, but the payout dollar for dollar is better on MFC by a WIDE margin. Every $1000 earned on SM is $350 in a girl's pocket, and every $1000 on MFC is $550-$600, which is $200-$250 MORE...that makes a HUGE difference.
And I know you are not naive enough to believe that all 27,000 signed SM models make BANK. Most make nothing, and SM is the most intensely supportive of Studios, while MFC just does NOT support the studio system. There ARE studios on MFC from countries where the girls have no choice to go solo, but MFC allows anyone signed to a studio to quit and join MFC directly for full pay THAT DAY. SM make you wait a full year.
We can agree to disagree on this, because for my money, SM is just FAR worse than MFC. But either way, it's a stupid argument, they are like the Demopublicans and Republicrats...One big lying mess of evil shit that is not out for the good of the people/model in any way...So this shouldn;t be a pissing match about who is worse, but how to circumvent and replace the fucking evil system.
Right?
B
Bambalina
07-11-2011, 02:40 PM
Also, I don't judge anyone. So long as you don't physically harm others, it is not my right to judge (physical harm can make me judge for the Whupass option)...
So I am not judging anyone here...
But to say that "I need money and they pay well, so a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do..." is a morally bankrupt position. It is the equivalent of looking the other way and putting money into the pockets of an evil dictator, or allowing your peers to be dragged off for torture and "looking the other way"...and I'm not going overboard here, because there are women being beaten and abused and tortured and the Big Box sites KNOW IT and allow it and support it. And every dollar you make keeps these companies going, allows them to advetise in these poor countries, allows them to pay affiliates more to post the stuff on sites than support child porn, and so on and so on...
You can tell yourself you are just looking out for #1 and that if you don;t do it someone else will, and all of that is just bullshit, and I don;t know woman on here who can;t look deep down and know for fucking-A sure that working for these slimy pricks is WRONG.
So argue all you want, but you know damn well, that the only real solution is to get out there and change the fucking system that is OBVIOUSLY broken beyond repair.
B
twigs
07-11-2011, 03:07 PM
Everyone agrees the contract is bad, but they don't DO the things that SM does...they don;t advertise on Child porn sites, they don't sell their models's privates, they don't own tube sites and populate them with Model Content with NO renumeration, and most of all...
If a man on MFC spends $100, the girl will get about $58, if a guy on SM spends $100, the girl gets $35...Period. It's just truth.
I agree that it might be harder to get it on MFC for some girls, but the payout dollar for dollar is better on MFC by a WIDE margin. Every $1000 earned on SM is $350 in a girl's pocket, and every $1000 on MFC is $550-$600, which is $200-$250 MORE...that makes a HUGE difference.
And I know you are not naive enough to believe that all 27,000 signed SM models make BANK. Most make nothing, and SM is the most intensely supportive of Studios, while MFC just does NOT support the studio system. There ARE studios on MFC from countries where the girls have no choice to go solo, but MFC allows anyone signed to a studio to quit and join MFC directly for full pay THAT DAY. SM make you wait a full year.
We can agree to disagree on this, because for my money, SM is just FAR worse than MFC. But either way, it's a stupid argument, they are like the Demopublicans and Republicrats...One big lying mess of evil shit that is not out for the good of the people/model in any way...So this shouldn;t be a pissing match about who is worse, but how to circumvent and replace the fucking evil system.
Right?
B
There are a lot more models on SM making that $35 than there are on MFC making $50 though. MFC has A LOT of models and only a very small minority of them are making real money. if you have a 1 in 7 chance of making real money even if you are a great model, why take the chance and also sign on with a contract that would make satan weep in jealousy that he didn't think of it first (that is if he isn't involved in the first place). Just like your narrative about Dems and Republicans. Which i like, BTW. We are trapped in a two party system. You have to always go with the lesser of the two evils. you have to clumb down through the muck until the bottom is hit and we can all move up again. along the way you take what you can get and you try your hardest to help those who know better. That is the best you can ever hope for in situations like this where the more radical options that would instantly solve everyone's problems are things anyone involved would just be to lazy to comprehend or get involved in. Like the idea of bringing residual contracting, ethical contracts and unions to adult entertainment. They are GREAT ideas and the best outcome for anyone involved but the industry so SOOOOOO saturated with misinformation and a status quo dedicated to skeevy wackjobs like Leo Radvinsky that it becomes common place to think THAT is how things should be.
Like our politics in the US, it is the ultimate mediocrity.
A lot of people just prefer slavery because they don't have to think if others do it for them.
The other strong points with SM about studio support, their contracting and their network also put them above MFC in the "having the shit together" department BUT, that still isn't sayin much. They are both monsters. Being only slightly better than MFC is like the difference between a rapist who doesn't use a condom and one who does. If SM paid fairly and took a few of the contract terms they use that are a bit too much like MFC contract terms, they would become a force to admire.
twigs
07-11-2011, 03:10 PM
Also, I don't judge anyone. So long as you don't physically harm others, it is not my right to judge (physical harm can make me judge for the Whupass option)...
So I am not judging anyone here...
But to say that "I need money and they pay well, so a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do..." is a morally bankrupt position. It is the equivalent of looking the other way and putting money into the pockets of an evil dictator, or allowing your peers to be dragged off for torture and "looking the other way"...and I'm not going overboard here, because there are women being beaten and abused and tortured and the Big Box sites KNOW IT and allow it and support it. And every dollar you make keeps these companies going, allows them to advetise in these poor countries, allows them to pay affiliates more to post the stuff on sites than support child porn, and so on and so on...
You can tell yourself you are just looking out for #1 and that if you don;t do it someone else will, and all of that is just bullshit, and I don;t know woman on here who can;t look deep down and know for fucking-A sure that working for these slimy pricks is WRONG.
So argue all you want, but you know damn well, that the only real solution is to get out there and change the fucking system that is OBVIOUSLY broken beyond repair.
B
THAT is a good point BUT can you imagine how much worse they would be trolling me here If I went that far to bring those points up? They would hand me my ass.
cherryfay
07-13-2011, 02:28 AM
the % you get sucks on Sm.
but.. I still make way more there then I do on Mfc
It's my only option. :-X
Bambalina
08-07-2011, 02:19 AM
the % you get sucks on Sm.
but.. I still make way more there then I do on Mfc
It's my only option. :-X
True, but in a business completely controlled by the women (in the end), it is a shame we let the site owners dictate our worth to us.
There has to be things that can be done.
I think they all rely on concerted effort and action.
B
ChatGF
08-07-2011, 09:45 AM
True, but in a business completely controlled by the women (in the end), it is a shame we let the site owners dictate our worth to us.
There has to be things that can be done.
I think they all rely on concerted effort and action.
B
You give too much credit to site owners. The traffic providers (affiliates, advertising networks) dictate to site owners, and this is where it goes that 30% you think the site owners are stealing to girls.
Myfreecams it is a little different as there many girls show in free areas basically causing traffic free of charge to mfc so mfc can pay higher % too.
I started myself a site to grow traffic cheaper via girls doing free shows it is tubecamgirl.com , of course it needs quite some time. Actually in streamate I see lots of naked girls, and their advertisings are from the private shows so contain sex, so, that may be a trend, but it is made to reduce $$ going to traffic sources, not to reduce $$ going to models really.
Bambalina
08-07-2011, 09:57 PM
You give too much credit to site owners. The traffic providers (affiliates, advertising networks) dictate to site owners, and this is where it goes that 30% you think the site owners are stealing to girls.
Myfreecams it is a little different as there many girls show in free areas basically causing traffic free of charge to mfc so mfc can pay higher % too.
I started myself a site to grow traffic cheaper via girls doing free shows it is tubecamgirl.com , of course it needs quite some time. Actually in streamate I see lots of naked girls, and their advertisings are from the private shows so contain sex, so, that may be a trend, but it is made to reduce $$ going to traffic sources, not to reduce $$ going to models really.
See, I completely disagree. In fact I think this is the crux of the industry and all of the problems it has.
Most businesses have a model in which earnest people out to big things make them happen and love and believe in their business, and fight for it.
This does NOT seem to be the case in the adult world. Especially because the general way things run is that if you are innovative and especially if you are ruthless, and you get in at the beginning or with something novel, on the internet you will be more than profitable. You will be fithy-mega-rich. Ad I believe it gets hard being the caretaker for some site that you started that has grown until it is so far beyond the scope of what you expected and what you signed up for...I mean these aren't people who start facebook from University and have superior business savvy...these are people who run MFC, yet also own a large Password Pirating Site (mfc), and people who own arguably the biggest cam-site, yet jump into bed with tube-sites in a foot shooting idiocy (SM)...
Stream has the opportunity to knock it out off the park right now, but won't because it isn't run by savvy folks, but sewer rats scampering along and trying to get every crumb they can in a greed filled festival of "Fuck everyone but ME"...
So, I disagree...the market was created by the top 3 or 4 players in the game and they created the market that accepts Female Trafficking, and Minors on screen in Asia, and dildo shows on open cam, and on and on...they make the rules and they allowed camming to become what it is today.
You don't want to accept that ChatGF, because YOU are generally a nice guy, and you're motives aren't evil, and you aren't a sewer rat...but that is also why you are little teensy fish in a big pond...and you try to place your motives and your kindness upon people who would rather kill you than look at you...
B
ChatGF
08-08-2011, 07:41 AM
So, I disagree...the market was created by the top 3 or 4 players in the game and they created the market that accepts Female Trafficking, and Minors on screen in Asia, and dildo shows on open cam, and on and on...they make the rules and they allowed camming to become what it is today.
You don't want to accept that ChatGF, because YOU are generally a nice guy, and you're motives aren't evil, and you aren't a sewer rat...but that is also why you are little teensy fish in a big pond...and you try to place your motives and your kindness upon people who would rather kill you than look at you...
B
I do not created this market, I started in 2004 and at that time everyone was there: streamate, livejasmin, flirt4free, streamray - and even myfreecams, not many people knows that mfc it started in 2004, even if no one cared to it before of 2008 when more tits was flashed for tips.
And yes I am a small fish not a shark, and maybe I am not there to make mega profit as I have no expensive hobbies really. Still I swim in same sea where it is the big sharks where it is available all the shit you said, and no way everyone will give 50% or more AND stop free sex in promo and even live. So having responsibilities on my models who are also friends in some cases, what I should do? To provide them as much traffic and money as possible, and this is possible only by compete in the free market and so to swim in the real shitty world. The alternative it is to do a political site which will financially collapse, leaving my models the only choice of work for 30% elsewhere, so what would you do. Isn't it better I exist even if not super sweet and approved by united nations and the church, then only the bigger guys you mention exist. I am just a practical guy - maybe a little cynical, but I have humor, I take it like a comedy.
Bambalina
08-08-2011, 08:33 AM
I do not created this market, I started in 2004 and at that time everyone was there: streamate, livejasmin, flirt4free, streamray - and even myfreecams, not many people knows that mfc it started in 2004, even if no one cared to it before of 2008 when more tits was flashed for tips.
And yes I am a small fish not a shark, and maybe I am not there to make mega profit as I have no expensive hobbies really. Still I swim in same sea where it is the big sharks where it is available all the shit you said, and no way everyone will give 50% or more AND stop free sex in promo and even live. So having responsibilities on my models who are also friends in some cases, what I should do? To provide them as much traffic and money as possible, and this is possible only by compete in the free market and so to swim in the real shitty world. The alternative it is to do a political site which will financially collapse, leaving my models the only choice of work for 30% elsewhere, so what would you do. Isn't it better I exist even if not super sweet and approved by united nations and the church, then only the bigger guys you mention exist. I am just a practical guy - maybe a little cynical, but I have humor, I take it like a comedy.
I know that. I like you. I don't have any problems with you (except that you HAD to have a million dollars to start each cam site...someone here said so){poor quality inside joke}...
There ARE alternatives, and I plan to share them with you, and to one day approach you owner to owner, and ask my Collective to do the same to do some things together to change the way this shitty "ocean" stinks from all the shark feeding...But for now, I am working as a model/promoter and not as a Owner yet.
But I hope I can someday show you that right now you are a Remora (the little fish who swims with the shark underneath and eats his crumbs), when I believe you need to be the Dolphin and be the only thing in the sea that can kill a shark.
Promotion is the key my friend. Mark my words.
B
Amy Lee
08-08-2011, 08:40 AM
This should actually be called Union Organizing 101....Because there are proven ways to organize workers in ANY industry for better treatment and pay.
First off, boycotting Streamate won;t work....yet....
There are not enough people aware and ready to back you, and a boycott of 50 people is ridiculous.
So...First step in any Organizing campaign is called "Agitation"...
That means you bitches have to become the annoying thorn, the buzzing bee, the whining child, the squeaky wheel...and I can tell you from YEARS of reading this damn board...we got some squeaky motherfuckin' wheeels!
So, first line of offense is to make more people aware that there are problems. And this includes and specifically can even target customers. Because your customers feel VERY ripped off when they realize they spent $100 and you only got $35...They HATE that...and those customers are REALLY important to Stream...
So...first 2 suggestions...if 10 of you (and those who want to help who don't even work on stream, or hate stream because they are evil, or any other good reason, like you LIKE these fucking misfits on here and want to help them make more money!) or even 20 of your started writing e-mails to stream complaining and asking about better pay, and ALSO (with a different address) wrote as customers saying that you will no longer spend ANY money on Stream, because you were unaware of the unfair working conditions for women, and that 35% is a ripoff and you are going to MFC.
Second...get yer ass of stream, and get yourself banned...take as long as humanly possible to do it...then change yer IP address, do it again...change again...do it again...(if you need help with changing IP addresses to avoid banning, lemme know)...
How? LEGALLY that's how!
Go to Stream, engage the women there as "Fellow CamGirls" and ask them if they will come here and read THIS thread or the Boycott One....Easy. Then make sure to tell everyone in the room that the girl they are watching only makes 35% of the money they give and that they should meet her on skype and let her keep it all and stuff....within 2 weeks, almost ALL of the girls on Stream could be aware of this whole thing and all the guys....
If you are QUITTING Stream or Pissed, or have an old account...go out in a blaze of glory...these things will actually make a difference, since they affect many many people.
Do NOT do anything (obviously) which is rude to the lady your visiting, or would negatively impact HER experience...say yer piece and get out...go to the next one...say yer piece and get out...if enough people do it, it will make a HUGE impact.
That is the the first step...
B
I agree with most of what you are saying...but being that buzzing bee will get you fired too. It is messed up that we only get that small percentage, especially when they are advertising us and streaming our shows on more than one site....so it is cheaper for them.
It will take a lot of models to get together and stand their ground and do it...I am always down for shit like that, but trusting other girls to do so is a BIG issue.
ChatGF
08-09-2011, 10:50 AM
I agree with most of what you are saying...but being that buzzing bee will get you fired too. It is messed up that we only get that small percentage, especially when they are advertising us and streaming our shows on more than one site....so it is cheaper for them.
It will take a lot of models to get together and stand their ground and do it...I am always down for shit like that, but trusting other girls to do so is a BIG issue.
Actually bambalina it is more unique then rare, and this is the problem. What she say may be agreeable by most the cam girls, still, the job of cam girls is to be model, and the needs are to pay bills every month. Not necessarily to change the whole world by unite in some way. Also consider russian models hardly speak with western ones, and with philipina, and colombian with others and so on. Everyone is on its own and at most there are small groups by country or so. Also more the model it is not indepedent, and more she is afraid to talk of anything. I experienced lots of times that trying to talk openly with studio girls can make them super afraid they will loose job by tell something wrong and they tend to hide and avoid to talk the site guy, just as extreme example.
The best I think it would be that really a site (indy listing or whatever) it is made and it is successful so that money are made there by models. Then at that point the models will join and no need of any strike on the big sites, as a different big site would exist and members would know it is better for girls and this why to prefer it.
However remember that bank fees and tax are unavoidable (if you want to keep legal and up) and these eats lots % so the difference of this site can not be just the % as hardly can be better then 60% as I nearly bankrupt to give 60% to models and I optimized all the costs. Difference should be more widely in not accept all the stuff you say it is bad and this should be advertized and made clear and the brand of the site itself.
Of course that's just my 2 cents, from a mini-nano-midget-shark
mariahmilano
09-14-2011, 03:53 AM
First of all I will say hello as this is my first time on this board. I am an adult film star of more than 600 movies and I shot my first scene 9 days after I turned 18 back in 1998. I have seen the transition of the adult industry from VHS to DVD to the internet, which is now dying as well due to piracy. The one remaining division that thrives is live inter-active webcams.
I can say with confidence that I have as much if not more insight into this side of the industry than any of you, including the person who started this thread. I say that because I have owned webcam studios since 1999 starting with ifriends and imlive all the way through to Streamate. I recently opened a studio in London and have another opening in Paris next month.
For 2 years I had my own network and my own merchant account and after taking charge back hits for over $60,000 I said fuck that and went back to letting one of the big boys take those hits and by far the best company to deal with is Streamate, hands down.
I know it seems like they are raking in the money and throwing you peanuts but that says you aren't looking at the big picture here. They provide the customer, which I can tell you is the hardest part of any internet business. I know because I also own 77 websites. The do the billing and Streamate doesn't take chargebacks from performers which is a HUGE amount. Ask any girl doing shows on Imlive how much of each check is lost to charge backs and you'll have them tell you at least 20% sometimes more.
I don't want to generate my own traffic because Streamate has plenty and that is the main reason they charge so much %. They spend a ton of money monthly on traffic and I know this as fact. I know 3 different companies they buy traffic from and one of them tells me their monthly budget is more than 1 million dollars. Monthly.
So I challenge you to start your own company and pay the girls 50% and we'll see how long you last.
And companies like Niteflirt are scum bags who allow identify theft and copyright infringement (there are 13 girls using my photos that I know of!) and their customer base has been reduced by more than 40% in the last 2 years.
So before you cry foul you need to take into consideration the costs involved in hosting live cams of this volume. It's hundreds of thousands a month, as well as the procesisng fees plus they pay webmasters a %. I get 20% for any referal for what they spend for life and 40% if it's spent on me plus the 35% for the show.
So promote yourself and voila! You're making 75%!! I currently charge $6.99 per minute and average over $3500 a week logging in 3 or 4 days for 2 hours at a time. Please show me your stats for niteflirt or any other site where you can make that much money in so little time.
laurielegs
09-14-2011, 04:09 AM
Welcome to the board Mariah! Very good to see you here and to have your input and perspective.
LAChloe
09-14-2011, 04:27 AM
I agree. Thank you for sharing, Mariah! Welcome! xx
mariahmilano
09-14-2011, 06:38 AM
thanks. I have gone back and read a lot of the posts and as nice as it would be to get more money it would end up being worse because it would cut into the advertising budget which is the most important thing here. Traffic in the world today is VERY hard to come by.
There was a post that said they advertise on child porn sites? First of all that's bullshit. Secondly they have thousands of affiliates who place banners and links on sites so they don't have control over it but I assure you that they would demand that they remove them and report the sites as well, which you should do if you have this information. I have been dealing with Bode who is the owner of Streamate and he is a father and he answers my emails himself and promptly as does Liz and Danielle. They are a HUGE site but a very small operation and they have kept overhead down and passed that on to their models who make a killing. I have 3 girls in my studio who make over $5k every week without fail. I have an MFC studio also and never has a girl made as much as they have on Streamate.
SO should people who bake pies complain if the owner of the bakery sells them for a high price? of course not. You are making a great living working at home, why bitch about it?
Bambalina
09-14-2011, 07:11 AM
thanks. I have gone back and read a lot of the posts and as nice as it would be to get more money it would end up being worse because it would cut into the advertising budget which is the most important thing here. Traffic in the world today is VERY hard to come by.
There was a post that said they advertise on child porn sites? First of all that's bullshit. Secondly they have thousands of affiliates who place banners and links on sites so they don't have control over it but I assure you that they would demand that they remove them and report the sites as well, which you should do if you have this information. I have been dealing with Bode who is the owner of Streamate and he is a father and he answers my emails himself and promptly as does Liz and Danielle. They are a HUGE site but a very small operation and they have kept overhead down and passed that on to their models who make a killing. I have 3 girls in my studio who make over $5k every week without fail. I have an MFC studio also and never has a girl made as much as they have on Streamate.
SO should people who bake pies complain if the owner of the bakery sells them for a high price? of course not. You are making a great living working at home, why bitch about it?
I'm glad to see your perspective as well. Hopefully we can have a bit of a debate about this without it becoming a drama-fest. :)
That said. Streamate makes more money than Midas...it is a proven fact that they take home more (ALOT more) than $1million per week after EVERYTHING is paid. $4milion per month. So to say they aren't greedy dicks for not paying more to the girls is actually ridiculous in my opinion. I mean, money goes (mainly) 5 directions,
1. Models
2. Affiliates
3. Site Upkeep and Hosting
4. Advertising and promotion
5. Take Home Profit
Now if any of those numbers get too big the other numbers suffer. So if Stream is pulling in $4million per month (it's actually quite a bit more than that) in profit, and pays their affiliates well, abnd you say the spend major bucks on promo, then that leaves the percentage for models, where they scrimp and rip-off...Since their biggest competitor pays 20%-25% MORE than them, this means we KNOW where the money is being lifted from. Models.
Secondly, You have an EXTREMELY impressive record as far as your accomplishments. I applaud you. HOWEVER, that record does not speak well for you being at ALL un-biased. In fact I would argue that your record speaks that you pretty much absolutely positively MUST be VERY biased.
Everyone know that Streamate SEVERELY favors studios. That of all cam-sites in existence Stream is all about studios and studio owners. And guess what demographic you come from? Am I surprised that a person who makes thousands per week off of studio ownership is saying "Rah rah! Streamate is GREAT!"?? Nope.
But lets ask another question. Why would anyone who isn't invested in things staying the same COMPLAIN because women want Streamate to pay more? I mean, lets say we WIN this fight and get Streamate to up pay 10% by cutting their profits a bit...Well, YOU win too right? So why would you fight that? Why would you not join us and use your clout to make them pay more?
Sorry, but it is very suspicious to me when a person fights and argues to make LESS money, and this is what you're doing here. You can do nothing but benefit to the tune on multi-thousands of dollars if Streamate gave the girls a raise.
B
Bambalina
09-14-2011, 07:46 AM
Also, I challenge Streamate's advertising budget being anywhere NEAR what you and some other say it is.
I do advertising and promotion for living. So I know that if they are spending even close to "multi millions" per month (which you hint at) then they are complete newbs and idiots, because they made a TV commercial and for under $1million they could be running it in the infomercial networks and late night cable groups, and we'd see Streamate on 34 different stations running commercials, and they would get better traffic and MUCH MUCH more of it for their advertising dollar.
Have you even run a television ad campaign? I have, and I know for a FACT that you cannot beat the numbers you get from television with fucking tube sites, and TGPs and the other crap that Stream advertises on (most of which they either OWN, or get the perk of advertising for free.)
Ladies, do you know that streamate allows pay sites to put a full streamate interface INSIDE their pay site!? And guess how much it costs Streamate? $0...they pay affiliate rates to be INSIDE the pay sites out there...and they are in THOUSANDS.
So, I wouldn't be surprised that Stream spends $1 million per month on advertising...great write-off and sounds great when people like you come along and say $1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!
But um...500 girls minimum, 24 hours per day at $20 per hour average (and we ALL know the averages for number of girls and dollars per hour are MUCH higher)...Simple damn math.
500 x $20 = $10k
x24 hours in a day $240,000 per day
x 30 = $7,200,000
So, even at those conservative numbers (VERY conservative), they are left with $4,680.000 AFTER models are paid. So if $1million goes to advertising/affiliates, with VERY coservative numbers, we have the owners taking home $3.68 Million. And even if we grant a full million more to advertising...they take home $2.68mill, then you still have the staggering fact that the owners, (according to you, only ONE) take home MORE than ALL THE MODELS PUT TOGETHER.
Is that fair!?!
So keep crying us the Streamate river and how they are so fiscally responsible with our cash. I will stick with real world numbers and math. It works every time.
Also, you're a studio owner. Which means YOU pay your models less than 35%. I mean, everyone welcomed you here, but I don't get it. You are the absolute worst type of person in the camming business. You are the ULTIMATE rip-off. You're a STUDIO owner. Now, unless you own ONLY physical studios, where women work and have everything provided for them, and take no virtual models, you have admitted to being the female equivalent of Stray Dogg Entertainment.
Other women may be impressed that you made a bunch of porno movies and stuff, and that's great...But until you clear up this studio thing, You are just another Stray Dogg Entertainment, in here shilling for the master, Streamate.
Of course YOU are going to say they are great. YOU OWN STUDIOS! You keep girls from making the full 35% for a year, even if they beg you to let them quit. You are one of the "bad guys".
Unless I'm wrong of course...and you ONLY own physical briack and mortar studios and NO virtual studios. And if that is the case, I will be the first to apologize.
B
Bambalina
09-14-2011, 08:47 AM
For 2 years I had my own network and my own merchant account and after taking charge back hits for over $60,000 I said fuck that and went back to letting one of the big boys take those hits and by far the best company to deal with is Streamate, hands down.
Yes, they are VERY VERY good to studios, and they help MANY of them traffic women the world over. They also won;t let girls quit and go make the full amount. True?
I mean MFC pays more and they don't hold girls in a studio, and allow them to quit and make the FULL amount of money at any time...true??
I mean...they pay 20% more than Streamate, have fantastic traffic and DON'T take chargebacks out....true??
So you are saying, from a studio perspective, Streamate is better...we all accept that...especially the women stuck in one year waiting periods...
But for an independent model who know how to work MFC, MFC is much better....
I have as much if not more insight into this side of the industry than any of you, including the person who started this thread.
Pretty bold statement since ChatGF has OWNED camsites for a LONG time.
Also, you have no idea what I know and don't know, and who and where I've worked, or what I've owned. So lets just quit with the rhetoric and go on what we know...ok?
I know it seems like they are raking in the money and throwing you peanuts but that says you aren't looking at the big picture here.
No, it means they are seeing the true picture, as I painted it above.
If you can't show hard numbers otherwise, you are just spinning bullpucky here and asking women to believe you (a studio owner) based on NO numbers.
They provide the customer, which I can tell you is the hardest part of any internet business. I know because I also own 77 websites.
Now, this is the truth...she isn't lying here...but THIS is an area where I hands down think I know more than anyone on SW about. I also believe I've proven it in many many posts on here.
It is hard and it does take work. And for some, the best way to cam is to just let the site get you the customer. Great. But that doesn't mean you should accept eating shit because they get the customer...It doesn't mean that you shouldn't complain and try to change things for the better.
Or create BETTER camming environments for yourself and others.
But I can also tell you that when you get to the Streamate level of reality, YOU have HUGE clout, and you get HUGE advertising for very little money, and you get tube sites to adopt you as their "Cam-site" (RedTube has what cam-site BUILT IN!?) That costs Stream affiliate rates...and since they are part or full owners of several popular tube sites, they pay those affiliate rates BACK to themselves...really.
They are in HUNDREDS...THOUSANDS of pay sites...and yes, they advertise on the fucking forums where YOUR videos get PIRATED.
And on Motherless.com and they HAVE BEEN TOLD there is CHILD PORN there, and do NOTHING about it.
I don't want to generate my own traffic because Streamate has plenty and that is the main reason they charge so much %. They spend a ton of money monthly on traffic and I know this as fact. I know 3 different companies they buy traffic from and one of them tells me their monthly budget is more than 1 million dollars. Monthly.
They DO spend a ton of money on traffic, and for us little peons $2Million seems a lot...shit $5million seems a lot...but run those numbers I ran up there with the REAL numbers...the 800-900 girls average online and the real average hourly of like 30-40, and you see that a couple million for advertising is NOTHING. They probably spend slightly more than 10% on advertising.
Streamate has one huge fat unmanageable cost, and STILL it leaves them with multi-multi millions in their pocket per month (as I said up there...MORE than they pay ALL the girls, a few people keep), and that cost is the affiliates. And they have no problems with those costs, because it has been proven (look it up on google, I've posted links before) that they use their OWN people to run some of the largest affiliates, and pay THEMSELVES. If the prrof out there is true, Streamate cheats to the tune of kicking themselves back a FEW million per month.
Don't let people, any people divert you from the actual MATH of a HUGE fucking multi-million $$$ enterprise like Streamate.
So I challenge you to start your own company and pay the girls 50% and we'll see how long you last.
Yeah! MFC doesn't exist! They don't pay more than 50%! That's a magical illusion!
ChatGF doesn't exist after YEARS in the biz paying more than 50%!
I mean, it's obviously DO-ABLE...It just hasn't been the right combination at the right time.
My belief is that it will HAVE to be a cooperative effort owned by cam-girls, because of the HUGE HUGE advantage it gets in traffic. and the ability of a co-op to exist on very little profit when necessary for the good of the girls working there.
But I'm thinking that mariahmilano isn't going to like that much, since we won't have studios unless they can prove beyond doubt they offer GREAT value to their models. And we won;t use virtual studios at ALL.
So before you cry foul you need to take into consideration the costs involved in hosting live cams of this volume. It's hundreds of thousands a month, as well as the procesisng fees plus they pay webmasters a %. I get 20% for any referal for what they spend for life and 40% if it's spent on me plus the 35% for the show.
Read all that...take it in...see the big fat ball of money (earth sized) that she makes it out to be....
Then realize that Streamate makes a ball of money the size of Jupiter....and we can fit many earths inside Jupiter....
It sounds HUGE to say that Streamate probably pays $250,000 for hosting....jeeeezuz! But when one realizes they make $240.000 on their WORST day, it doesn't seem like nearly as much...shit...1/30th (at WORST) of their income goes for hosting....not too bad huh?
And 20% of $10+million is more than $2million! But it still leaves $8 fucking million dollars...per MONTH! So affiliate costs are still not enough...none of this smoke and mirrors is enough to cover the lie that Streamate keeps more each month for a few people, than they pay to ALL their models combined....
So promote yourself and voila! You're making 75%!! I currently charge $6.99 per minute and average over $3500 a week logging in 3 or 4 days for 2 hours at a time. Please show me your stats for niteflirt or any other site where you can make that much money in so little time.
This paragraph reads, to me...
So, promote yourself, get your OWN customers, and take away ANY advantage that Streamate has over being Indy and having your OWN site and making 90+%, but still give Streamate 25% of your money!
Either Streamate is good because they get the customers FOR you, or you promote yourself, and then what the fuck do you need Streamate for, with its freeloaders and 30 seconds privates and shit???
Sorry, but the "Spin" in this message is masterful, it's just very light on facts.
Especially since she makes that amount and challenges YOU to show her where you make that amount elsewhere...
Let me ask this....do you think a Porn STAR with over 600 movies is FAIR in comparing herself and her income to YOU!?
We also know that porn stars on MFC make as much as $25k-$30k per month. So, her stats are not so good when looked at in the cold clear light of reality.
Of COURSE you, a regular cam-girl can't make $3500 in 8 hours a week...You can't do it on fucking streamate either, so what do those numbers prove? Nothing.
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mariahmilano
09-14-2011, 09:42 AM
hey we live in a Capitalist country and capitalism is the ONLY form of economy that has EEVER worked. You're talking about straight up socialism and communist ideals.
Since when it making a profit a bad thing? When YOU put up the money and the hard work to start a company and take all the risks then YOU will want to make a profit too.
You're forgetting one HUGE expense in your list: Legal fees. I know how much I spend annually to have an attorney on retainer for my 1rst amendment issues and contractual issues and to keep me updated and compliant on all the changes within the laws like 2257 for example is more than $14,000 in 2010 and even more this year. So please imagine how much a company that size puts up? They will be the first one to be targeted when shit comes down which its due to happen any time.
And MFC is a fucked up site. 3 or 4 guys pay for everyone else to watch for free....oh wait, that's kind of like your perfect world right? The few provide for the unwilling? their business model will not last trust me. As I said I gave it a shot on MFC. And ALL ppv webcam sites cater to their studios. Why wouldn't they?
I just want to know what you have against people making a profit? This is a business not a nationalized agency so who are you to say how much profit they are allowed to make?
mariahmilano
09-14-2011, 09:51 AM
you said "My belief is that it will HAVE to be a cooperative effort owned by cam-girls, because of the HUGE HUGE advantage it gets in traffic. and the ability of a co-op to exist on very little profit when necessary for the good of the girls working there."
that happened a few years ago it was called Camz and PrivateCamz look it up it's out of business. they were paying girls 50% and referrals and affiliates 25% and couldn't afford to keep it running that way. They call it camworld now and it's so lame and now just a whitelabel of streamray (Cams.com)
and i will put a screen shot of my weekly payouts from Streamate if you will post yours from your favorite cam site. And remember, I travel at least 2 weeks a month so you have a defnite advantage over me.
Bambalina
09-14-2011, 10:40 AM
hey we live in a Capitalist country and capitalism is the ONLY form of economy that has EEVER worked. You're talking about straight up socialism and communist ideals.
Well, sorry but you picked a hot-button of mine.
Capitalism is a very broad term. As is Socialism and Communism.
So, let's discuss.
Sweden is a MUCH stronger economy than ours and is very socialized. Much closer to Socialism than Capitalism. They have better internet, better medicine, better schools, and in general are much more progressive and have one of the most booming Adult Entertainment economies in the world.
Communism works wonderfully in SMALL SCALE, like a cam-site, or a factory, but doesn;t generally thusfar work well as a GOVERNMENT. Two VERY different things.
Also, contrary to the Fox News Republicans, Socialistic and Communistic programs can work WELL when combined with capitalism and generally beat out other models. In this regard, see Microsoft, which shared profits and stocks with ALL workers (even janitors) on IPO and made every last employee at MS on opening day a Millionaire. So, communistic/socialist principles combined with a really socially conscious capitalism worked wonderfully, and created the richest man in the WHOLE WORLD, thus proving you wrong.
Capitalism is NOT the only form of economy that has worked. On a world scale, there are several communist economies (China) that are MUCH stronger than our failed capitalist experiment, and our economy as well other capitalist economies can be said with great vigor, to be FAILING as we speak. So your statement is not only false on the smaller stage of business, but is proving false on the world stage as well. In fact the more an economy seems to homogenize with all types of idealism, the better it does.
Which only makes sense. Hybrids work well, overall, in most areas...
Since when it making a profit a bad thing? When YOU put up the money and the hard work to start a company and take all the risks then YOU will want to make a profit too.
Well the obvious answer is that PROFIT and the Greed Motive become a "bad thing" when they are at the expense and sweat and on the backs of others.
It's like the old question about freedom...when is it too much freedom? When you freedom allows you to hurt others and comes at the expense of another's freedom.
Same dealio here. Streamate doesn't care if women are beaten and enslaved, they hire those studios and it's all about the bottom line.
Streamate lets their affiliates advertise on Pirate boards and Motherless, where they have been informed and sent links that there is CHILD PORN. And they DON'T CARE. Because it is more important to make a profit.
And they know, women will sign up and work their asses off for 35% (30% in MOST of the rest of the world) and less (as you know...studio owner), so WHY pay them more? If they are desperate suckers who are willing to work for peanuts, WHY pay more!? That is how these cocksuckers operate. And that isn;t a straight up business who treats their workers really well and makes a profit because they truly offer a real value to them.
THAT is the problem with Streamate. Not Profit, but profit at the expense of fairness and wisdom and good business practices.
Sure if you pay a pittance, and hire SLAVES and underaged Phillipine girls, and cheat your affiliates and lock girls into unfair studios for a full year, and buy up tube sites, which are RUINING porn, and advertise on pirate sites, and make girls sign un-fair contracts where you own ALL their content FOREVER (even then they are old grannies, you will be able to sell vids of them fucking themselves with dildos and keep ALL the money)...OF course if you are that type of business it will be tough for anyone to surpass you...You break all the social, business, moral, and human rules to run your business as profit at ANY cost, even 14 year old Phillipino girls being beaten and paid pennies to be sex slaves, and all of it being advertised on a dirty child-porn pit like Motherless
So, go ahead...keep justifying their actions....Because it makes sense, they are dirt-bag scum in EVERY major way, all I pointed out...but they pay fairly...Yeah...Right. And I'm the Queen of England!
Nothing wrong with profit if it is earned fairly and ethically, and our cooperative will prove that. My sites will prove that. You can make GREAT money and not do it off the backs of others. But then I can't explain that to person who owns STUDIOS.
You're forgetting one HUGE expense in your list: Legal fees. I know how much I spend annually to have an attorney on retainer for my 1rst amendment issues and contractual issues and to keep me updated and compliant on all the changes within the laws like 2257 for example is more than $14,000 in 2010 and even more this year. So please imagine how much a company that size puts up? They will be the first one to be targeted when shit comes down which its due to happen any time.
I didn't forget it, it was included in expenses. It is still miniscule when held up next to the actual profits of Streamate. Tiny, almost not worth discussing.
I am also a firm believer that the Stream and MFC have their roots buried outside the USA for a reason. Cyprus and Amsterdam and on islands...because they are playing a bet...they know the hammer will come down and when it truly slams down to the detriment of everyone, they will have a huge amount of money safely elsewhere....because even in this respect, they and MFC don't care about "camming" or "models" or even the studios, they care about raking in HUGE profits for as long as the dirty game will be allowed to be played. Shit, as long as the casino lets you cheat, you cheat...right? But sooner or later you better have a plan for getting the money OUT of the casino...and they do, because they know their antics will get the whole fucking thing shut down....
But generally, the hammer won't fall with a Democrat in office...So they BOTH have another 2 years to destroy the whole fucking thing as best they can...
And MFC is a fucked up site. 3 or 4 guys pay for everyone else to watch for free....
I won;t argue that...but it IS a discussion for another thread...in fact, I argued that one already and got attacked horribly for the opinion, so watch out...
Have fun...
oh wait, that's kind of like your perfect world right? The few provide for the unwilling?
What? I want cam-models to be paid fairly for their time and effort...how did that become me wanting customers to get free shows? How did that become the few provide for the unwilling? Are you calling the cam-girls lazy and un-willing? I mean if streamate is the "Few" in that equation, that makes the cam-models the "unwilling"...Methinks your studio owner roots are showing dear..
their business model will not last trust me. As I said I gave it a shot on MFC.
I agree that MFC will not last, but only because they break their OWN rules...otherwise, up until last year, when they FOLLOWED the rules, they have already been around since 2004, so you'd be wrong...their MODEL of camming works, but they are just like Stream in that greed and grabbing up as much as possible till the hammer falls, became more important...
And ALL ppv webcam sites cater to their studios. Why wouldn't they?
They all like studios to a degree, because studios provide girls online to make your site more full and money-making...yes...But would you DENY that Streamate is EXTRA good to Studios? That they provide a REALLY un-ethical buffer to studios by providing the one year out clause???
C'mon, at least be fair about your profession...that One Year, No independent joining if they quit you...you LOVE that....right?
I just want to know what you have against people making a profit?
Nothing whatsoever. In fact I intend for the cooperative cam-site to make HUGE profit. ETHICALLY. Without SLAVES and Underaged girls, without advertising on Motherless and getting in bed with Tube sites...paying a fair wage and winning over the models, stealing them away from YOU and the other people who will hold them down....HUGE profit....
This is a business not a nationalized agency so who are you to say how much profit they are allowed to make?
Well that is what collectives and unions and such are for...Who are the United Auto Workers Union to say that GM shouldn't make a trillion a year!?!? Who are they to say that GM should have to give health insurance to workers and pay them more that Minimum wage?
Well Guess what...it worked, because when the workers UNITE, the bosses quake in their shoes, and from your description of yourself, sorry, YOU are a boss...studio owner...
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Bambalina
09-14-2011, 10:48 AM
you said "My belief is that it will HAVE to be a cooperative effort owned by cam-girls, because of the HUGE HUGE advantage it gets in traffic. and the ability of a co-op to exist on very little profit when necessary for the good of the girls working there."
that happened a few years ago it was called Camz and PrivateCamz look it up it's out of business. they were paying girls 50% and referrals and affiliates 25% and couldn't afford to keep it running that way. They call it camworld now and it's so lame and now just a whitelabel of streamray (Cams.com)
and i will put a screen shot of my weekly payouts from Streamate if you will post yours from your favorite cam site. And remember, I travel at least 2 weeks a month so you have a defnite advantage over me.
First...you are a porn star...of course you make great money camming...I don't argue that....You surely slam me, who only cams for my regulars...I am semi-retired from camming, and concentrating on changing the business and refining it...making it better for women everywhere...you?
and um, hahahaha....comparing camz and privatecamz to a true cooperative of women who all work together and have a truly original and fair site, is a joke...try again...besides, there is a thread for telling me I'm an asshole for trying to make things better for camgirls....
Over here:
This thread is about Streamate...so stick to the topic.
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ChatGF
09-14-2011, 07:06 PM
Pretty bold statement since ChatGF has OWNED camsites for a LONG time.
B
Hehe yes and I worked for the evil old cam site empires before, so I quite know the data.
However Bambalina, I said mostly like mariahmilano : streamate (and ilvejasmin etc. the 30% paying sites) spend million(s) per month in adverts and there goes most of the %, beside the obvious biller and running cost which we agree are low % on big sites.
Why you think so many sites link to streamate for cams? It is simply because SM give them an higher % then other sites can offer, we (the sites who pay big % to girls) can not win those advert spots! The adult sites prefer sites who give 40% to the big affiliate and 35% to the model, to a site who give 25% to affiliate and 50% to the model. I give 60% to the model, so I simply can pre-pay cash for the spot, I not even tried to compete in a rev share offer, I have not one.
Finally the model only care to total $$ she make per hour, so will prefer to make $50 from $150 an user paid in SM, then $25 from $50 or even $40 then an user paid - the % got it is a principle matter, a political or ethical matter (that you care at), but most models care simply to the total money made. As well as who sell traffic, and presumably the cam sites.
So if the cam girls never supported 30% paying cam sites, these did not prosperated, but cam girls supported and supporting still, except bambailna (I know some others who have a principle on %, but not many).
About mfc you cite it positively as paying 50% or more, but in other post you say they are bad for other reasons (free sex shows - camscore 500 or lower girls with no sales so if there guess their conditions), so this is not a site Bambalina would support fully yet.
It should also be considered that the top 3-5 cam site players have an oligopolistic advantage (scale economy, brand recognition), so who is there already have easier life then anyone else smaller who may even be more smart. Oh I not meant small cam sites are more smart then bigger ones (often they are small for their errors), just that unless super smart they close quickly, instead the top 3-5 cam sites can even do errors for months and still not be damaged, it take 10 times more errors and delays to have negative effects. Small site do a small error you are dead quick.
SM would have not reached the current traffic and popularity if it had paid 50%, it is by paying 30-35% that could archieve this.
Said so the question is: How to Change Stremate and MAKE them pay more? NO way... do I think SM could pay the girls 40-45% and still keep profitable? I think YES, but I guess then the profit would be half or even less then half, why anyone would do it? They could increase a 5% with no bloody cut but would it matter? And I think for 50% pay they could risk to collapse in long run or have to re-negotiate adverts and affiliates deals - so reducing the traffic, beside the profit % lower, gross profit lower too.
The strike-socialist way would require mass of models to boicott sites who pay less then 50%, even if they have big traffic and bring $$ to the girls. Then the girls to jump all in sites who pay 50% or more but with little traffic (or not enough for all these extra girls). Girls would miss $$ for months - until the SM and other sites by havin 50 instead of 1000 girls online would make less $$ for affiliates who would then switch away from there and put the sites where girls gone. But I can not imagine the cam girls doing a worldwide strike long months like that, this is not a factory in a city with an union.
mariahmilano
09-15-2011, 12:19 AM
I ask you this...have you ever been to any of those small socialist countries before? I have. My best friend is porn star Puma Swede and I went back to her country with her and we went to Denmark and Finland and I can tell you that it's pretty fucking bleak to say the least. The word to describe them is conformity and they have tremendously high unemployment but hey, what incentive is there to work when you get paid the same not to work out of the pay check of those who do?
You are in the wrong business in the wrong country my friend. I would recommend you going to the aid of people like coal miners and people who rick their lives to make a living rather than cam girls who make great money working at home.
Bambalina
09-15-2011, 01:58 AM
I ask you this...have you ever been to any of those small socialist countries before? I have. My best friend is porn star Puma Swede and I went back to her country with her and we went to Denmark and Finland and I can tell you that it's pretty fucking bleak to say the least. The word to describe them is conformity and they have tremendously high unemployment but hey, what incentive is there to work when you get paid the same not to work out of the pay check of those who do?
You are in the wrong business in the wrong country my friend. I would recommend you going to the aid of people like coal miners and people who rick their lives to make a living rather than cam girls who make great money working at home.
This from a studio owner....
GREAT money is what the owner of Streamate makes, Cam-girls make barely adequate money....
GREAT Money is what the female trafficking studio owners make, barely surviving is what the trafficked models do...
GREAT Money is what the guys who buy and sell underaged girls make...No money is what underaged slaves make...And Streamate profits from it ALL.
You can completely ignore that I'm a serious capitalist who wants to triple the money cam-girls make and keep claiming I'm a communist or Socialist, making yourself look incredibly ignorant. Or you can pay attention to what I'm saying and actually reply to me, when I say I want to bring MORE wealth to cam-girls, and that ISN'T socialist, but COMPLETELY capitalist. Having the wealth end up with cam-girls instead of Cam-site owners and studio bosses is NOT Socialist. It is capitalist but not in favor of YOU.
Wanting to defend the big bosses at Streamate raping women literally and figuratively for money while you run a studio for money and are a BOSS of cam-models making money money for often doing NOTHING off their backs, does not make you a capitalist and me a socialist. I want to profit, and I want cam-girls to profit, and I want the women who produce the art/entertainment to profit as opposed to those who produce NOTHING whatsoever....You say they bring traffic to you so they are worthwhile, and if I can show these women how to bring their own traffic, the vampires who suck money off the women who produce all the content will have a fucking stake driven through their hearts and camming will actually be as it should be. It's fucked and skewed and wrong now. It can be fixed.
That makes me an ETHICAL capitalist, and you an UN-ethical capitalist. You support trafficking and slavery and bad contracts and women being paid 1/3rd of the money they earn. I support freedom and ethical contracts where women own their own content and only supply content that also advertises their business directly, and a minimum wage of 50% of all money earned.
Your just a poor quality capitalist who is also, in my opinion a dinosaur who is going extinct as women empower themselves and learn to use the tools available to them on the internet, and realize they don't NEED to give Streamate 65% of their earned money, and then give YOU even more of it for doing...well...WHAT!? Signing them up to be ripped off at Stream?
Damn, don't do em any favors.
B
Bambalina
09-15-2011, 02:18 AM
Hehe yes and I worked for the evil old cam site empires before, so I quite know the data.
However Bambalina, I said mostly like mariahmilano :
I was much more commenting on her know-it-all remark of being better able to tell us stuff than ANYONE ELSE on SW. And I completely disagree with that. Being a studio person does not make one expert.
Also, with you, I think you suffer from a case of something like penis envy only it is Giant Cam-site envy. You see your little fishness and you compare it to their big fishness, and there really is NO comparison in my opinion.
I would tend to agree with you more that Streamate is not so much unfair, but stupid and unable to figure out better ways to get traffic and so on...ecept for the FACT that what you say is wrong, because it only includes a PORTION of Streamate traffic. Only a portion of their traffic is affiliate based, and much of that is for 20% and not the 40% you discuss...so the 40% is the carrot, and it is what they use as an excuse, but in general a great deal comes from sites they have deals with (what do those tube sites give for the free videos from Stream's library of privates?), word of mouth, customers who's affiliate cookie expired, etc. In short a GREAT DEAL, in the MILLIONS is traffic they only pay 35% for. and that is what makes you wrong. They could pay 50% NOW, now that they are big, and survive and be rich quite nicely.
So we disagree. What's new?
But what we agree about is "Why should they?" Because girls are suckers and will keep taking the low pay and crappy contracts, and work for ethically bankrupt people who they support, which makes them part of an ethically bankrupt system...So Stream has no impetus to change that system.
IF MFC had remianed true their ideals and stuck to their rules, then Stream would already have had to continuously change for the better, but MFC didn't, and decided to break their own rules..So, the only thing that CAN fix it is for women to take matters into their own hands, and that is what Bambalina Superwoman is here to do.
B
mariahmilano
09-15-2011, 02:42 AM
WTF do get this trafficking nonsense? How is a cam site trafficking human beings? Seriously? You're a conspiracy looney. Believe in UFOs too and that George Bush organized 911? Come on.
You say you can teach cam girls how to get traffic, well if you had any clue how to get traffic you wouldn't be here bitching about not making enough money working on webcam.
And how am I unethical? What have I done that is unethical? I'd be interested to hear that one.
And you didn't answer my question about you ever going to one of those Socialist Utopia's you mentioned? I would bet you haven't.
mariahmilano
09-15-2011, 02:48 AM
"I was much more commenting on her know-it-all remark of being better able to tell us stuff than ANYONE ELSE on SW. And I completely disagree with that. Being a studio person does not make one expert."
I was speaking about the industry as a whole. I started doing ifriends when there were 40 other girls online at peak hours back in 1999. I have worked for just about every cam site in the last 12 years and as I said have owned studios where I provided content for most of them also.
Currently I have 7 studios for Video Secrets, Streamate (multiple), MFC and Cams.com and the only one that is even worth promoting is Streamate. The rest have no customers and the ones that do pay shit like cams.com pays 20% if you want a higher page listing and more visitors. So please, understand I know what the fuck I'm talking about when it comes to this industry. I have a production company, a network of websites, studios and am starting an event booking agency for porn stars for event hosting. I am all about making money and doing it so that it benefits everyone, but I'm not going to put my money up and my name on it and take 100% of the risk and then scrape to make my bills. That's fucking retarded.
Bambalina
09-15-2011, 06:44 AM
WTF do get this trafficking nonsense?
Really!? Honestly? You don't know this answer and you're SO experienced???
How is a cam site trafficking human beings? Seriously?
Well, there are many many studios from the Asian countries and the Eastern Bloc, And they traffic women and enslave women, including buying young girls. And many of these studios have as their sole support, Streamate. The owners have testified as such too. But not much can be done since they are overseas.
There has been beatings and various "discipline" of cam girls caught on video on Stream and they have never removed those studios from their roster.
They are advertising RIGHT NOW on Motherless.com, which supports and promotes child pornography.
Don't believe me, go LOOK! It is well known on this board and MANY women have written to Streamate with proof and links and clear documentation and Streamate has done NOTHING about it.
You know Bode? THEN CALL HIM and GET STREAMATE OFF MOTHERLESS.COM and THEN...we can talk...
You're a conspiracy looney. Believe in UFOs too and that George Bush organized 911? Come on.
No need for drama on this forum and name-calling...Why would you take it there? Can't handle grown up debate?
You say you can teach cam girls how to get traffic, well if you had any clue how to get traffic you wouldn't be here bitching about not making enough money working on webcam.
Listen, you say you make $3500 per week, right? And for you that's Great...But that just means your a settler...some who settles for less....$3500 may be a damn high paying webcam job, but that just shows that webcam is a fucking rip-off.
If the owners at Streamate make a few MILLION per WEEK, then high quality camgirls should be making 1% of that, and the biggest stars should be doing CLOSE to what the owners make. It's how it works in the world. Look at any new car sales lot...the owner may make $100k per month, but his BEST Salesperson will make $10k per month minimum. At LEAST 10%. Because that is what BUSINESS decides is FAIR, for a profit ration for Boss to Employee.
But if the owners of Streamate are pulling in a $Million+ (WAY MORE) per week and their TOP GIRLS average $5k-$7k per week, The BEST paid employee doesn't even make 1% of what the owner does. You think that is fair? The world doesn't. The US Labor Department (complete communists them) doesn't. MOST cam-girls, DON'T....You (a percentage sucking studio owner) DO. Hmmm...WHo should we listen to? You who say:
"Oh shut up cam-girls...quit whining and accept what WE pay you...because we can decide your worth and value, and Bambalina is a communist for trying to make your lives better!"
or me, and many others who say it is the right thing to do to try and better our situation in life.
And how am I unethical? What have I done that is unethical? I'd be interested to hear that one.
Well, many many many women here...MOST even, think studios are not ethical. PERIOD. Taking money from women for basically signing them up to Streamate, is highway robbery and a complete fucking rip. You are a scam-artist, and that is what studios are scams, where you con women into giving you some of their money in exchange for almost NOTHING of value, and then hold them by ruining their ability to independently sign with Streamate for one year after quitting your evil bullshit company.
Sounds REALLY unethical to me. You entire business is unethical, and useless, except where you provide performance spaces. IF you do, since most "studios" don't. Otherwise, if you take ONE DIME of money from women who work on Streamate from HOME, for signing them up on the site they could sign themselves up on and make MORE...You are a ripoff scammer and this board pretty much unanimously reviles you.
On top of this, you work for a company and bring them big money. If they do evil things in the world, and you knowingly work for them and help them make money, that is not ethical. Many women who cam do it, and know it is unethical, but have to to survive and make a living. From what you say, you would survive without that money, so you CHOOSE to be unethical in a way you don't need to to survive.
I challenge you to go to Motherless.com and look around. And then tell me how Streamate is an ethical company, now that they have been told (continuously for 2-3 months), and done nothing 2-3 months later.
And you didn't answer my question about you ever going to one of those Socialist Utopia's you mentioned? I would bet you haven't.
Well, you'd lose your bet, I've traveled all of Europe extensively. And if you'd like to debate Socialism and Communism and comparative world Economy, create a thread in an appropriate place and we'll do that...but a thread about making Streamate pay you more is not the appropriate place for a pissing contest about world affairs.
Stay on track, I don't get yanked off so easily...
Personally, I applaud your brass balls, because any woman who walks into StripperWeb and tells the women she owns studios and that they need to "sit the fuck down and shut up, you make enough, so quit complaining..." has some real BALLS.
B
Bambalina
09-15-2011, 07:22 AM
I was speaking about the industry as a whole. I started doing ifriends when there were 40 other girls online at peak hours back in 1999. I have worked for just about every cam site in the last 12 years and as I said have owned studios where I provided content for most of them also.
Ditto. I was one of the original panty girls on eBay, and the first one to offer cam. I've worked probably every site you have and more. I'm an old, fat hippy chick and a mama now. I still cam for favoprite regulars and sell panties and stuff, and I promote for cam-girls. The exact OPPOSITE of the Vampire leach studio trip, where we actually work hard for our money and provide full websites and 10k targeted twitter followers and so on and so forth...I could double the money you make on your studios in less than 60 days...But I wouldn't work with you if the set me on fucking fire...because you're a studio ghoul.
Currently I have 7 studios for Video Secrets, Streamate (multiple), MFC and Cams.com and the only one that is even worth promoting is Streamate. The rest have no customers and the ones that do pay shit like cams.com pays 20% if you want a higher page listing and more visitors.
Wow, and you admit that to a room full of indy camgirls who do it themselves and pride themselves on their fierce independence and consistently help girls get out of studios like yours, eh?
HUGE balls.
I actually cannot believe I am the only one here telling you what an unethical being you are. Shocked really. Usually it would be a bloodbath. I guess all the cam-girls who care and have ethics are busy in CC and not reading this thread...Lucky you.
Studio owners are pretty hated around here.
So please, understand I know what the fuck I'm talking about when it comes to this industry.
I do not doubt you have savvy in the industry. I have not called that into question at all, or tried to throw the conversation off by repeatedly asking about your travel habits....
My doubts are about your ability to speak knowledgabley on the actual mechanics of Streamate, as I think you know little to nothing and are a liar if you say otherwise.
That you are here to obviously shill for you masters and dance like a good puppet is obvious, and comparatively you aren't doing half bad, but that does not change the FACT that you are not, basically, here representing "cam-models" you are here as a studio owner for Streamate, and that makes ANYTHING you say regarding women uniting and forming unions and co-ops and striking and doing things to change wages, well, it makes YOU null and void.
Talking to you about this is surreal. It is like if the United Auto Workers were trying to have a strike and they brought in the owners of the largest dealers for GM and Ford to tell auto-workers why asking for more money wouldn't be good. It's like a joke...You are the WORST person we can possibly take advice from OTHER than the owners of Streamate themselves (and your cute little story about Bode is just that, a story...Streamate has investors, and FlyingCrocodile is the actual umbralla, and they have their hands in so many pots it's fucking ridiculous...they fucking RUINED Yahoo chat... keep talking, and lets see if you can make any points beside "Cam girls make enough! Quit Whining and shut up!"
I have a production company, a network of websites, studios and am starting an event booking agency for porn stars for event hosting.
Those sound great, if you didn;t own the bloodsucking leech studios, I'd applaud you. But none of those things qualifies you in the LEAST to advise or comment on the wages of cam-girls. Or to try to crush them down. And you still haven't named a thing that shows you know anything about the real inner workings of Streamate.
I provide math, and that math is CONSERVATIVE, and the CONSERVATIVE math shows that Streamate is dirty profit pigs living off the backs of their cam-models and could pay them much more. If we actually sat and graphed the average number of girls on SM at one time and the average they make, I would bet the numbers would stagger your mind. My million per week is WEAK...it is a slap in the face to the true greed displayed at the expense of models, by Streamate, a company which is known for not caring at ALL. Under-aged Phillipino girls? So What! they gotta PROVE that...Women as forced labor at some of our largest studios? So WHAT!. Our contract rapes women and would be held illegal in many states because it is SO unfair? Ahh stuff it! Hundreds and thousands of girls stuck in useless studios and unable to break free and make even the shit money we offer? What of it!?
And here you sit with your bald face hangin' out, defending that...
I am all about making money and doing it so that it benefits everyone,
Yup, that is the hallmark of studios that shill for Streamate...You are ridiculous...this conversation is surreal, and I have better things to do...come back with something different and useful or don't bother...
but I'm not going to put my money up and my name on it and take 100% of the risk and then scrape to make my bills. That's fucking retarded.
And who EVER told YOU to do that? I mean here you sit and many of these women work HARD on the cam sites and make just enough to scrape together their bills...While you and Bode make MILLIONS off their backs...You have a lot of nerve coming in here...You BETTER be able to do better than you have thusfar...
B
ChatGF
09-16-2011, 01:27 PM
So there is no way to let streamate pay more :)
mariahmilano
09-17-2011, 03:40 AM
I now realize this is a one person thread lol
I'm headed to the Caribbean for 10 days of relaxation today so I won't be chiming in to this stupid Marxist crap again. Feel free to check my twitter for pics and updates during my trip! lol http://twitter.com/mariahmilanoxxx 75,000 followers and growing.
And by the way I login to cammodels almost every day and do shows for my members and fans so please don't tell me I don't know what it's like to be a cam girl.
You're just a bitter fat ass looney with nothing better to do that sit and bitch because you are capable of little else.
CamWhore
09-17-2011, 05:17 AM
^^^^
And who the hell are you? Nobody cares. Stay in the Caribbean under a rock with your rude ass.
mariahmilano
09-17-2011, 07:37 AM
hahaha I'm the one who was rude first??????????? I hardly think so. I have been accused of promoting and profiting from human trafficking and sexual slavery lol and many other things that are as far from the truth as they could be. Read her mindless rants and her tirades against me and labeling me as part of the problem when all I did was try to explain there is a lot more than she realizes.
And considering I'm going to buy a condo maybe I will stay. Who knows? but as far as who am I? Well, I am actually somebody with a name with fans worldwide and a successful business and my own boss with a great life. I have traveled all over the world and do what the fuck when I want and that Camwhore is who I am. Perfect name by the way.
catgirl
09-18-2011, 08:06 AM
this reminds me of the ignorant americans against reforming healthcare.. except, she sounds like one of the big guys who leech off of people
..i noticed her twitter- if you go there, it says nothing about going to the carribbean..
in fact- i wouldn't be suprised if he "stole" a camgirls identity.. interesting- i might have to send her a dm on twitter..
back to the real topic-
i didn't know that they were still promoting on motherless :(
i have been wanting/thinking about going back to mfc (from sm) for weeks.. hell, months!
i think this is the push i needed
:)
until someone[/we] opens a good camsite
we can do it! :)
^.^
twigs
09-18-2011, 03:34 PM
this reminds me of the ignorant americans against reforming healthcare.. except, she sounds like one of the big guys who leech off of people
..i noticed her twitter- if you go there, it says nothing about going to the carribbean..
in fact- i wouldn't be suprised if he "stole" a camgirls identity.. interesting- i might have to send her a dm on twitter..
back to the real topic-
i didn't know that they were still promoting on motherless :(
i have been wanting/thinking about going back to mfc (from sm) for weeks.. hell, months!
i think this is the push i needed
:)
until someone[/we] opens a good camsite
we can do it! :)
^.^
MFC's contract is the most fraudulent document in adult entertainment today.
Any company that tells you that you can not show their contract to another party or a lawyer for a second opinion is just plain fraudulent.
I have yet to meet a cam model who has really made a fair living wage working for MFC unless they were promoted by the site and spreading propaganda to promote MFC.
Really there are no fair cam sites I've seen yet. It is too easy to exploit the system in order to make money off suckering models into them. You would make more money getting your very own basic website and if you can't afford a streaming host of your own just use a skype account. Then promote off different groups and social nets.
AF camgirl
09-19-2011, 01:55 AM
hey we live in a Capitalist country and capitalism is the ONLY form of economy that has EEVER worked. You're talking about straight up socialism and communist ideals.
Since when it making a profit a bad thing? When YOU put up the money and the hard work to start a company and take all the risks then YOU will want to make a profit too.
And MFC is a fucked up site. 3 or 4 guys pay for everyone else to watch for free....oh wait, that's kind of like your perfect world right? The few provide for the unwilling? their business model will not last trust me. As I said I gave it a shot on MFC.
A, take any basic level government class and you will learn in the first week that NO government is 100% capitalist. We have a mixed government
B, as stated, you don't need to tell B that MFC is fucked up. WE KNOW FREE SHOWS SUCK, but not all of us do them. It takes personality to make money on MFC-not free shows.
and i will put a screen shot of my weekly payouts from Streamate if you will post yours from your favorite cam site. And remember, I travel at least 2 weeks a month so you have a defnite advantage over me.
Really?! ....Really?! That "Porn Star" tag on your profile isn't a clear advantage? Because the last time I checked, not anyone and everyone could be tagged as a porn star. Don't get me sideways, being a non-nude cam model gives me a clear disadvantage. Another thing, if I raised my price to $6.99 I wouldn't stand a chance on streamate. MFC however charges everyone the same for a private show and no one thinks anything of it. How is stremate fair whenI have to compete with $1.99 shows where any thing goes because the models are foreign and don't understand their worth?
I work my ass off for my camming. I will post my payout, and you will see I not only average much less than the average; however, if you have something to prove then post yours first. You are new and I have no reason to trust you will keep your word. Also, I do believe in another post you made a comment about "promote yourself... voila"... HA! Factor in the time I spend making content, keeping up my networking pages, planning my cam ideas, games, ect. and I make well below minimum wage. If SM is spending so much money on their advertising, ect. why do I need to do more work to bring people to my room to only make 35%? That's double work for me and still bull shit pay.
My best friend is porn star Puma Swede and I went back to her country with her and we went to Denmark and Finland
You are in the wrong business in the wrong country my friend. I would recommend you going to the aid of people like coal miners and people who rick their lives to make a living rather than cam girls who make great money working at home.
You sure do a lot of name dropping!
...And WTF is this last statement about coal miners? I live in a coal mining state, and they make decent money for what they do. However, their area is usually coal and nothing else. Most have drug and alcohol problems that consume most of their paycheck. but i digress....
WTF do get this trafficking nonsense? How is a cam site trafficking human beings? Seriously? You're a conspiracy looney. Believe in UFOs too and that George Bush organized 911? Come on.
You say you can teach cam girls how to get traffic, well if you had any clue how to get traffic you wouldn't be here bitching about not making enough money working on webcam.
First, spend some real time on cam sites, check on the girls who are on the last pages. "scat, piss, fist, I do anything for money!" type girls. Some of them will straight tell you they are being forced to work on cam. I can't believe you have made such a comment.
B willing gives super helpful information to girls. I can assure you that. Also, if you were reading correctly, she isn't bitching about not making money, she is bitching on the models behalf because they are getting less then optimal payouts due to low %.
LAChloe
09-19-2011, 05:16 AM
We aren't the one publicizing 800+videos or 1,000,000 followers. Good luck finding a man who wants to marry stats like those!
Wow! You realize you are posting on a forum for sex workers, right?
I love it when topless dancers think they are better than nude dancers or dancers that think they are better than camgirls or camgirls that think they are better than pornstars.
Get off your high-horse, AF. We're all sex workers. Not one of us is better than the other.
Kaia, can you close this one, too? Let's get rid of the Bambalina drama once and for all.
catgirl
09-19-2011, 10:57 AM
how is this Bambalina's fault? we are just talking about making a better site, for the women, by the women. it's not her fault people keep trolling.
CamWhore
09-19-2011, 03:34 PM
hahaha I'm the one who was rude first??????????? I hardly think so. I have been accused of promoting and profiting from human trafficking and sexual slavery lol and many other things that are as far from the truth as they could be. Read her mindless rants and her tirades against me and labeling me as part of the problem when all I did was try to explain there is a lot more than she realizes.
And considering I'm going to buy a condo maybe I will stay. Who knows? but as far as who am I? Well, I am actually somebody with a name with fans worldwide and a successful business and my own boss with a great life. I have traveled all over the world and do what the fuck when I want and that Camwhore is who I am. Perfect name by the way.
And Why do I care. I don't. Looking for attention? I have never heard of you a day in my life, and even if I did you'd still be irrelevant to me. You think you can just come here and call people names because you have fucked men to get by? Nah, you can save that.;)
Friendly
09-19-2011, 04:38 PM
I am going to miss Bambalina's posts terribly. I hope she did something really really bad to get banned like that. Because she posted a whole lot of stuff that was helpful.
But I don't see why these discussions, that seem so interesting, need to be shut down just because she is gone. What do you have against good conversation LAChloe? You aint even a part of this thread.
Anyways, I think it's pretty clear that mariah is a studio owner and on the side of Streamate. Which means she sure aint on my side! Women should be allowed to make big money! And should fight for it!
Keep up the good fight CW!
:)Friendly:)
laurielegs
09-19-2011, 06:02 PM
That last sentence is so whack. I guess since we are in the "other work" thread I won't make a comment. BUT this is a site called STRIPPER web, not PORN STAR (so glamorous) web. Don't you loose labia ladies have your own elite haven? Don't come here and insult the regulars because we are just normal girls with a webcam. We aren't the one publicizing 800+videos or 1,000,000 followers. Good luck finding a man who wants to marry stats like those!
Oh man. I really should bite my tongue and say nothing but I can not help myself. WTF is this? I can not believe you posted this. I really hope you realize that you have just insulted nearly all of us (including yourself).
You ARE an adult worker too, and you ARE on porn sites, and if you think conservative closed-minded people won't judge you just the same as any of us you are sadly mistaken.
kaiarose
09-19-2011, 06:41 PM
Wow! You realize you are posting on a forum for sex workers, right?
I love it when topless dancers think they are better than nude dancers or dancers that think they are better than camgirls or camgirls that think they are better than pornstars.
Get off your high-horse, AF. We're all sex workers. Not one of us is better than the other.
Kaia, can you close this one, too? Let's get rid of the Bambalina drama once and for all.
This isn't my section.. I also want to add that I can't or won't close every thread that members ask me to. I closed the Collective Thread because people were still posting drama after Bam was banned.
/end threadjack
Also, if people DON'T want this thread shut down and they don't want to get pointed then the insults and baiting should probably stop ;) Just a word of advice...
AF camgirl
09-19-2011, 06:58 PM
I love it when topless dancers think they are better than nude dancers or dancers that think they are better than camgirls or camgirls that think they are better than pornstars.
Get off your high-horse, AF. We're all sex workers. Not one of us is better than the other.
Oh man. I really should bite my tongue and say nothing but I can not help myself. WTF is this? I can not believe you posted this. I really hope you realize that you have just insulted nearly all of us (including yourself).
You ARE an adult worker too, and you ARE on porn sites, and if you think conservative closed-minded people won't judge you just the same as any of us you are sadly mistaken.
I have edited my response, you are both correct, I am not better then she and vice versus. That was a shallow comment, and I wasn't being rational. I sincerely apologize if I have insulted anyone with my off-colored remarks.
:peace:
Friendly
09-19-2011, 07:33 PM
I believe we need to get back to the basic discussion. Which is about how the guys who own these sites think of us as less. I mean we're less in their eyes as far as pay, or whether we should get anything for our time (mfc), most big sites think we should work for 30%-35%, and another thinks we should do dildo shows for free. And the one girl who really talked about that is gone, so it is up to us to make sure someone cares!
:)Friendly:)
EvilChick1989
09-20-2011, 02:06 PM
Hey there Friendly! Welcome to the boards. I see that you are industry related. Sooo what exactly is it that you do? It is always nice to see people that are "industry related" wanting to help us fight for our rights to make more money.
I look forward to hearing what you do. Always nice to see a non performer but industry related who wants to help out. Sorry for the thread jack just wondering...I finally realized we are worth more than what we bust our "vagina's" (lol) for. This why I have mainly gone indy but it is hard sometimes to avoid big box sites altogether.
twigs
09-20-2011, 04:09 PM
OK, i'm really tired of this. I'm pretty sure bambalina got banned because she was too "edgy" with her remarks towards unions and the industry around cam sites. While I admit both her and I have had some pretty heart felt and some what preachy opinions, it doesnt change the fact that these websites and their owners are taking advantage of models and setting a very poor standard for an industry that should by now be at least somewhat open, ethical and organized. They have so many of you so spun and mis-directed in what to do that it seems there will never be any sort of calm or stability for anyone. It isnt just the cam sites either. These alt sites, the same alt sites that told us years ago they would reform the entire industry are now no better than IEG (one of the first sleezy major internet porn companies that also had links to kiddie porn on it's sites) was over 15 years ago.
I really am just,.. sick and I wanted to see if ppl like bam and the others i saw out organizing were really into it and doing something BUT for all her talk she never did anything but,.. talk. this website she said she had going to organize models was a flop that she never put any effort into and the others she said were doing something with here were just more of the same nonesense.
I wanted to see if they could do it because I am not a model, a porn star or a site owner. I really think it should be of and for the models to get these things going.
BUT, since there is just more lollygagging , pointless talk and distress going on, I've decided to put some investment into it.
This Saturday (prob around midnight) I will provide you with the following:
1. A way to cam for yourself, have your own website for your cam connected to a social net with google+, facebook and myspace conectivity and still make 75% of the profits after paysite, stream tech and website expenses. All the tech is provided, you just have to have a cam, a domain ($5 a month) and a host site (like those $20 a month ones from hostgator)
2. A paysite hook up service that does not require you to own a business license. they provide all the paysite services, provide tip, buy now, subscription and member services and even cover CHARGE BACKS! they also do not charge the insane visa fee (over $800 annual).
This is how sick i have become of it.
These services make the websites so they belong 100% to you. they only charge for the billing processing and even then they provide you with effin charge back coverage and the insurance you would have to pay out the arse for.
Then when plenty of you have your own cam sites just make a central box page for them and BAM, now YOU own your own web sites, you make the majority of the profits, no more sick ass fraudulent contracts and no more half assed pay out "token" systems.
DONE