Log in

View Full Version : has this ever happened to you?



Pages : 1 [2] 3

rickdugan
01-22-2011, 10:39 AM
I think we need to define "remorse" here. Are we talking about regret that a relationship didn't work out or guilt over a one-night-stand?

Guilt over hurt feelings. I learned, the hard way, that many girls (not talking about strippers here) that claim to be ok with casual dating are often really looking for something more.

I never lied or made any promises, but there was a number of years that I kept a rotation of girls that I would see now and then. My head was not in the right place back then and I hurt a number of them, usually when they started asking for more.

Getting laid is easy. Dealing with the after-math is the tricky part.

Vyanka
01-22-2011, 11:37 AM
A customer tried once, but I told him I didn't play for his team.


LOL...

yoda57us
01-22-2011, 02:54 PM
Getting laid is easy. Dealing with the after-math is the tricky part.

This, in a nutshell, is why I currently prefer P4P!

rickdugan
01-23-2011, 06:45 AM
This, in a nutshell, is why I currently prefer P4P!

Yup. I spend a couple of hours with her in the club, then on to the hotel, and then she goes home with money in her pocket. I get the illusion of a connection, topped off with a nice finish, and she gets money in her pocket that she will use to feed and clothe her kid(s). Everyone wins and there are no hurt feelings.

big boy
02-04-2011, 06:22 PM
Guilt over hurt feelings. I learned, the hard way, that many girls (not talking about strippers here) that claim to be ok with casual dating are often really looking for something more.

I never lied or made any promises, but there was a number of years that I kept a rotation of girls that I would see now and then. My head was not in the right place back then and I hurt a number of them, usually when they started asking for more.

Getting laid is easy. Dealing with the after-math is the tricky part.

sounds kind of like my game. I don't lie or lead woman on to get them to put out for me. i know alot of guys who do(personally thats not something i respect). although ive never had problems getting a majority of the girls ive got. im still not at my goal yet. question for you have you gotten to the point of just not caring and playing hard to get the girl(seeing women as the object of desire but not caring about the individual your with)?

FrankieFerrari
02-04-2011, 06:33 PM
This, in a nutshell, is why I currently prefer P4P!

Word.

FrankieFerrari
02-04-2011, 06:35 PM
sounds kind of like my game. im still not at my goal yet.

Um, you have a goal? Like how many woman you want to sleep with? Are you still in college?

Almost Jaded
02-04-2011, 11:46 PM
ROFLMAO!

Seriously. My number isn't small, but it's a LOT smaller than a lot of guys I know - and a HELLUVA lot smaller than it could be if I weren't so picky.

Who gives a shit after about 9th grade?

big boy
02-05-2011, 12:24 AM
Um, you have a goal? Like how many woman you want to sleep with? Are you still in college?


yeah im still in college. but my goal isnt exactly set on how many woman i want to sleep with. its on positively helping another person f.y.i guys with their dating lives. i can't begin to explain, how many guys i see in NCs/SCs struggling with the girl they admire so i want to help other men get the girl of their dreams.:)

livingdeadgirl
02-05-2011, 06:19 AM
^ how noble of you...

Almost Jaded
02-05-2011, 11:57 AM
Yeah, you and that Mystery asshat, LMAO.

I met a guy with an attitude like yours years ago. A mutual friend introduced us, nd literally the first tie this guy had ever spoken to me, he shakes my hand and says "Hi, I'm [_]. If there's ever a girl you want to meet but you don't know how to go about it, tell me. I'll make it happen." I was completely dumbfounded and then just amused. I replied "If I ever need help in that department, I'll be SURE to look you up".

I don't know you, but I can say I've met a few guys who display attitudes like the one displayed in your posts. Became long tie friends with the one on the example above, though in a "forced to become friends else we kill each other" kind of way. Fact is, every one of them has been a frighteningly insecure weirdo who WAY overcompensated with an overdone outgoing and downright cocky attitude, but who preyed on the sick and the weak and settled for the fat girl at the end of the bar 'cuz anything is better than nothing (I prefer nothing sometimes, thank you). You are the stuff PUA's are made of, and they're jokes - every one of them. If you swing at 1000 pitches, you'll hit SOMETHING. Pointing out that you've hit 1,000 home runs won't get you in the big leagues if it took 1,000,000 pitches for you to hit them.

Kellydancer
02-05-2011, 12:49 PM
yeah im still in college. but my goal isnt exactly set on how many woman i want to sleep with. its on positively helping another person f.y.i guys with their dating lives. i can't begin to explain, how many guys i see in NCs/SCs struggling with the girl they admire so i want to help other men get the girl of their dreams.:)

This is quite funny, a college boy (that's what I think of college people as boys) telling older people with experience who to get who they want.

This is obviously a troll with no life, probably a virgin. Kind of reminds me of when I was working in radio and someone who was a "listener" of a certain radio station telling me they knew more about radio than I, who's worked in radio for years.

big boy
02-06-2011, 10:26 PM
Yeah, you and that Mystery asshat, LMAO.

I met a guy with an attitude like yours years ago. A mutual friend introduced us, nd literally the first tie this guy had ever spoken to me, he shakes my hand and says "Hi, I'm [_]. If there's ever a girl you want to meet but you don't know how to go about it, tell me. I'll make it happen." I was completely dumbfounded and then just amused. I replied "If I ever need help in that department, I'll be SURE to look you up".

I don't know you, but I can say I've met a few guys who display attitudes like the one displayed in your posts. Became long tie friends with the one on the example above, though in a "forced to become friends else we kill each other" kind of way. Fact is, every one of them has been a frighteningly insecure weirdo who WAY overcompensated with an overdone outgoing and downright cocky attitude, but who preyed on the sick and the weak and settled for the fat girl at the end of the bar 'cuz anything is better than nothing (I prefer nothing sometimes, thank you). You are the stuff PUA's are made of, and they're jokes - every one of them. If you swing at 1000 pitches, you'll hit SOMETHING. Pointing out that you've hit 1,000 home runs won't get you in the big leagues if it took 1,000,000 pitches for you to hit them.


is mystery the guy who had the tv show? if so i don't have much respect for him. that dude was creepy as hell....plus i know someone who works for the tv show guy. i kind of have that relationship you described in your post with the dude. i don't have respect for him or his skills. honestly what i do for my clients is offer them a new perspective and help them get rid of what does not help them. honestly im a member of PUAhate and I don't care much for PUAs....ive viewed some of their infield footage and wasn't impressed one bit.

tempest666
02-07-2011, 07:24 AM
Well.....if they're hot, white, under 35 and have tattoos, then I guess you could say we seduced each other. :) There were the hot Scottish tourists, the military boys, (I married one and lived with another), the really hot electrician named Vince, some guys from Kirtland Air Force Base, marines staying at Kirtland, (I fucked one in the parking garage across the street from Knockouts), quite a few musicians, etc. I had a damn good time, I never gave a fuck what they saw me as, nor if I ever saw them again. they were a piece of ass.

The ones that turned into serious relationships ended badly. Most guys in Albuquerque know my reputation. I fuck for fun not for money. :D

C0RINNE
02-07-2011, 09:59 AM
Have you ever been seduced by a customer?

Oh yes. ALL the time! More specifically the ones who come into the club, don't spend money, and expect me to go home with them. I can't get enough of these guys! I wish I could spend all of my time at work conversing with "suave" men like you.
::)

sananeko
02-07-2011, 10:20 AM
Nope.. And never well, once I'm working no matter how connected you think we become your never going to see me in a bed unless your sitting in a chair across the room throwing money at me..

These type of guys and girls turn me off and I have to quickly move to a real person before I call it night.

Hopper
02-11-2011, 04:00 AM
As she often does, princessjas raises a very valid point. Most guys view dancers with less respect than they do non-dancers. This is not fair and certainly not deserved but it is sadly true.

In my experience that very often goes the other way also.

princessjas
02-11-2011, 09:16 AM
In my experience that very often goes the other way also.

It's very hard to respect someone who doesn't respect you. I have no doubt that you have had dancer's disrespect you, but then it is glaringly obvious to everyone that you have zero respect for women. So why would they pay you any respect? It's not about you being a SC goer, it's about your personality.

Kellydancer
02-11-2011, 01:53 PM
It's very hard to respect someone who doesn't respect you. I have no doubt that you have had dancer's disrespect you, but then it is glaringly obvious to everyone that you have zero respect for women. So why would they pay you any respect? It's not about you being a SC goer, it's about your personality.

This 100%. Going by what Hopper has posted here it's obvious to all that he has no respect for any women and certainly not dancers.

My personal experience is that when many men find out a girl was a stripper she goes from potential wife/girlfriend to sex partners. I couldn't begin to mention all the times I went on a first date with a guy only to have him try to get me into bed because "strippers all like sex". These weren't even guys I met at strip clubs, guys I met through big mouth guy friends who just had to tell them. Btw, I am far more sexually conservative than many so I often told these men they'd have better luck sleeping with some girl they found at a bar than me.

she sells sanctuary
02-13-2011, 01:33 AM
your right about it all being a game for me, but your wrong about me lying. i see woman for what you are and treat them as such. funny you mentioned PUA. ive seen a few of them out at bars and saw what they were doing and i started a conversation with one and now hes my best friend. im NO PUA, ive beat a few when going against them to get the girl. they told me i was a natural/ alpha male. what ever that means. ive had game for a long a time now. ive been getting very physical with girls since i was very young and i even stole a girl from her rich BF and she was older than me.

you remind me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvjDr8KKtsE

if someone knows how to embed on here (youtube tags aren't working so i assume we don't have those), please embed this for me.


is mystery the guy who had the tv show? if so i don't have much respect for him. that dude was creepy as hell....plus i know someone who works for the tv show guy. i kind of have that relationship you described in your post with the dude. i don't have respect for him or his skills. honestly what i do for my clients is offer them a new perspective and help them get rid of what does not help them. honestly im a member of PUAhate and I don't care much for PUAs....ive viewed some of their infield footage and wasn't impressed one bit.

it's funny you'd mention puahate. for some damn reason, i spent my spare time for a couple days on that board a couple months ago. well, i had been looking for pua stuff, but something about that specific board totally hooked me.

it's a pua board for puas who are desperate to hate on the well-known gurus, while obsessing over how to develop 'natural game'. all about hating on puas, while totally being puas. also, there was this one dude who kept bitching about how symmetrical he was. was that you?

also, while i totally do think mystery is creepy, i've watched a bunch of videos of him on youtube, from seminars and such rather than tv. he's fucking amazing. mad skillz.

though, to be fair, the women on this board aren't really the type who'd go for traditional puas or "natural game" pua either. so i don't know why the fuck this loser came here to post. you want the girls who type with their index fingers only, if at all.


This 100%. Going by what Hopper has posted here it's obvious to all that he has no respect for any women and certainly not dancers.

My personal experience is that when many men find out a girl was a stripper she goes from potential wife/girlfriend to sex partners. I couldn't begin to mention all the times I went on a first date with a guy only to have him try to get me into bed because "strippers all like sex". These weren't even guys I met at strip clubs, guys I met through big mouth guy friends who just had to tell them. Btw, I am far more sexually conservative than many so I often told these men they'd have better luck sleeping with some girl they found at a bar than me.

totally concur.

it's kind of fun sometimes, because they always seem to forget that girls can masturbate too. like yo dudeman, i do love sex. that's why i fuck myself on the regular. what makes you think i'd want to waste my time fucking you, when i'm the best lay ever?

hahahahahhahahahaha.

however they respond, it always serves as excellent proof for why i shouldn't waste my time on them, usually by revealing how completely ignorant they are of how to please a woman.

KS_Stevia
02-13-2011, 12:28 PM
Meh, he's just marketing, trying to drum up business by pretending he's some poster. What do they call this, guerilla marketing or network marketing?

and I don't think I've ever really been "seduced" by anyone...I just find what I like and go for it myself.

big boy
02-13-2011, 11:43 PM
you remind me of this:


if someone knows how to embed on here (youtube tags aren't working so i assume we don't have those), please embed this for me.



it's funny you'd mention puahate. for some damn reason, i spent my spare time for a couple days on that board a couple months ago. well, i had been looking for pua stuff, but something about that specific board totally hooked me.

it's a pua board for puas who are desperate to hate on the well-known gurus, while obsessing over how to develop 'natural game'. all about hating on puas, while totally being puas. also, there was this one dude who kept bitching about how symmetrical he was. was that you?

also, while i totally do think mystery is creepy, i've watched a bunch of videos of him on youtube, from seminars and such rather than tv. he's fucking amazing. mad skillz.

though, to be fair, the women on this board aren't really the type who'd go for traditional puas or "natural game" pua either. so i don't know why the fuck this loser came here to post. you want the girls who type with their index fingers only, if at all.



totally concur.

it's kind of fun sometimes, because they always seem to forget that girls can masturbate too. like yo dudeman, i do love sex. that's why i fuck myself on the regular. what makes you think i'd want to waste my time fucking you, when i'm the best lay ever?

hahahahahhahahahaha.

however they respond, it always serves as excellent proof for why i shouldn't waste my time on them, usually by revealing how completely ignorant they are of how to please a woman.


not exactly. most of those guys are NATURALS who dislike the community like i do. some guys like my brother and I, never had to learn to be good with women we were just Naturally charming guys and both of us were popular during high school which helped with getting the hot girls at our schools. to be perfectly honest before reading that retarded book, my PUA friend suggested to me.... i was not fully aware of what I was doing. i just knew that what I did worked and I did not think anymore of it. it was instinctive to me. PUA is nothing more than bullshit, that men logically think up and try different things to see what works. personally i don't like the community because it teaches men to be deceptive....which goes against my moral values. A man should never trick a women into bed or feel the need to.

big boy
02-13-2011, 11:51 PM
Meh, he's just marketing, trying to drum up business by pretending he's some poster. What do they call this, guerilla marketing or network marketing?

and I don't think I've ever really been "seduced" by anyone...I just find what I like and go for it myself.


i don't market. if i see a guy struggling with girls, ill help if i feel bad for him. a majority of the time, i don't go out of my way to help anyone unless i feel like it. I'm not what most people consider a NICE GUY who bends over backwards to please the whole world. Also even if i had the time, i still wouldn't be THAT guy.

Almost Jaded
02-13-2011, 11:53 PM
Mystery is NOT amazing and does NOT have mad skillz; most of the "candid" videos involve paid plants, not real people/women. He's a master social engineer who's made a small pile by convincing a few people that matter that he has the "mad skillz" you mention, and hawking the resulting wares to suckers. I know lots of people like him, some better, some even more of a joke. At DefCon there are whole seminars on this type of "social engineering"; I know the guy who runs them VERY VERY WELL. He "social engineered" his way into running those seminars, lol. FWIW, I taught him almost everything he knows - but he totally missed what I was really trying to teach him. And guys like him - and most pua's as well, Mystery too - are the ones who will forever miss that point.

Hopper
02-14-2011, 03:33 AM
^ Write your own book so you can put them all out of business. Assuming you can get the point across to most of your readers.

bugsy
02-14-2011, 10:19 AM
I've fucked 1 customer in 4 years. My girlfriend brought him to me after spending a half hour with him, knowing id like him. He was totally respectful, super funny, spoke with intelligence, was damn hot, and was being deployed the following week. I had just broken up with my boyfriend. He only got laid cause I was on the prowl and I picked him up. He had no game and no expectations, and was even wary of hanging out otc cause he thought I was going to charge him (which I should've if I was smart). God bless him, so sweet. Not seductive, just sweet

Almost Jaded
02-14-2011, 01:38 PM
^ Write your own book so you can put them all out of business. Assuming you can get the point across to most of your readers.

This is going to sound narcissistic and conceited lol - I've been asked too, many times by lots of people. But I've told them all the same thing I'll say here - nobody would buy it. The post by bugsy right under yours sums up the whole damned book - be yourself, and work to make sure "yourself" is something that people in general and women in particular will respond to. It's not "natural game", it's not "game" at all. My "game" is fucking terrible, lol. Work to make yourself a good and respectful and pleasant person. Learn to find and show genuine interest in other people, how to make them feel special when they're in your presence. Better yourself for the good of those around you. Looks matter less and less the more successful you are in this, be you male or female. Looks always matter, but there are plenty of just plain unattractive people who are never hurting for a date. ;)

Hopper
02-15-2011, 04:15 AM
It's very hard to respect someone who doesn't respect you. I have no doubt that you have had dancer's disrespect you, but then it is glaringly obvious to everyone that you have zero respect for women. So why would they pay you any respect? It's not about you being a SC goer, it's about your personality.

You attack me for no reason and I'm the one with a personality problem? My comment here was not controversial, I was just pointing out that disrespect can go both ways in SCs. Everybody here acknowledges that. It's nothing to do with my personality, regardless of what your hysterical opinion is of that.


I'm a peaceful, love everyone, hippie sort

Slin
02-15-2011, 08:26 AM
This is going to sound narcissistic and conceited lol - I've been asked too, many times by lots of people. But I've told them all the same thing I'll say here - nobody would buy it. The post by bugsy right under yours sums up the whole damned book - be yourself, and work to make sure "yourself" is something that people in general and women in particular will respond to. It's not "natural game", it's not "game" at all. My "game" is fucking terrible, lol. Work to make yourself a good and respectful and pleasant person. Learn to find and show genuine interest in other people, how to make them feel special when they're in your presence. Better yourself for the good of those around you. Looks matter less and less the more successful you are in this, be you male or female. Looks always matter, but there are plenty of just plain unattractive people who are never hurting for a date. ;)

That's all fine and good but I think a lot of the guys who have those characteristics that you are talking about here (making people feel special, showing genuine interest in people, etc.) who are not successful with women tend to fall in the "nice guy" territory - dudes who girls like (as asexual companions) but will never, ever consider as a viable mate. For those guys, I do think they could use a feel guidelines on what to do...nothing wrong with that. It doesn't have to involve wearing a fuzzy top hat and asking women if they had "seen the fight outside".

Rookie2010
02-15-2011, 08:58 AM
Hahah! I agree all of this pick up artist shit is stupid. I do remember seeing it on TV and watching for laughs and they had sent the "students" into a strip club to pick up strippers LOL i wish i could post that vid i remember laughing my ass off.

bugsy
02-15-2011, 10:36 AM
That's all fine and good but I think a lot of the guys who have those characteristics that you are talking about here (making people feel special, showing genuine interest in people, etc.) who are not successful with women tend to fall in the "nice guy" territory - dudes who girls like (as asexual companions) but will never, ever consider as a viable mate.

The only time "nice guys" become asexual companions is when they are aiming out of their league. I may get flamed for this, but its a big dose of truth. Most people pair up with mates at a similar level if attractiveness. If a man is lacking in that department, he MUST make up for it in presence (personality, power, social standing) AND/OR money. By a lot.

Almost Jaded
02-15-2011, 03:44 PM
Partly true.

"nice guys" have a completely different set of problems. Best "nice guy" rant ever, lol - and painfully true in many cases.

Slin - if those guys were truly comfortable in their own skin, they could focus on the stuff I'm talking about.

Slin
02-15-2011, 09:49 PM
Yes when I was talking about guidelines - I was indeed talking about learning not to be clingy, not putting the woman on the pedestal, realizing that rejection is no big deal and there's no such thing as "one true love", etc. All those things you speak of, it's good for dealing with other people and getting along with them but I don't really think it will do much in terms of attracting the opposite sex. At best it'll just make you a less socially awkward person and make your dealings with other people in your life more pleasant...which I suppose would help with attracting women as well. Still, that would only satisfy the bare minimum requirements (ie. not being a douchebag) of being attractive to the opposite sex. Women will at least maybe give you a chance to prove yourself instead of rejecting you right off the bat. I'm thinking what these guys need is to be taught how to display their value in a way that doesn't come across as 1) bragging or 2) being needy.

Hopper
02-16-2011, 01:10 AM
That's all fine and good but I think a lot of the guys who have those characteristics that you are talking about here (making people feel special, showing genuine interest in people, etc.) who are not successful with women tend to fall in the "nice guy" territory - dudes who girls like (as asexual companions) but will never, ever consider as a viable mate. For those guys, I do think they could use a feel guidelines on what to do...nothing wrong with that. It doesn't have to involve wearing a fuzzy top hat and asking women if they had "seen the fight outside".

I don't think that is what AJ was talking about. "Nice guys" don't make women feel special or show genuine interest in them - they are more the insecure type who feel they have to compensate for his shortcomings (real or imagined) by being a SNAG or a doormat. They try to ingratiate themselves instead of making a romantic move on the girl because they don't have the confidence. The fact is that a woman finds a man more attractive if he shows interest in her and treats her appreciatively. (And men respond the same way to women who show interest in them.) I know women like guys who aren't interested in them also and who treat them bad ly (and same for men), but it works the other way as well.

Not that there is anything unattractive about a nice guy. He only fails to be attractive if he is nothing but a nice guy and for the wrong reasons. I think what AJ is getting at is that being attractive relies largely on personality and character, and genuine warmth is a good personality trait and shows good character. Insecure people tend to be more preoccupied with themselves and afraid to reach out to others. Personality plays a big part in attractiveness. I can forgive a lot in a woman with a charming or pleasant personality and often women with good proportions and features but no charm or grace are a total fail. I go further than that and say that personality has affects one's physical attractiveness. The body and mind interact, they are not independent things.

Hopper
02-16-2011, 01:17 AM
Yes when I was talking about guidelines - I was indeed talking about learning not to be clingy, not putting the woman on the pedestal, realizing that rejection is no big deal and there's no such thing as "one true love", etc. All those things you speak of, it's good for dealing with other people and getting along with them but I don't really think it will do much in terms of attracting the opposite sex. At best it'll just make you a less socially awkward person and make your dealings with other people in your life more pleasant...which I suppose would help with attracting women as well. Still, that would only satisfy the bare minimum requirements (ie. not being a douchebag) of being attractive to the opposite sex. Women will at least maybe give you a chance to prove yourself instead of rejecting you right off the bat. I'm thinking what these guys need is to be taught how to display their value in a way that doesn't come across as 1) bragging or 2) being needy.

I think that was AJ's whole point, except that you are understating it and uderrating the value of it. PUA's miss the point that how much "game" you get depends on how attractive you are as a person to begin with. They focus on tactics, gimmicks and tricks instead. They are clueless bozos with no aspirations of improving as people or even an idea about how they could and think everything works by magic formulas.

Hopper
02-16-2011, 01:26 AM
The only time "nice guys" become asexual companions is when they are aiming out of their league. I may get flamed for this, but its a big dose of truth. Most people pair up with mates at a similar level if attractiveness. If a man is lacking in that department, he MUST make up for it in presence (personality, power, social standing) AND/OR money. By a lot.

That's largely what attractiveness is, though a lot of it is determined by birth and by upbringing and is hard or impossible to change. But a lot can be changed - we all know people who have changed so much that we hardly recognize them. The point being discussed here is that to a large degree how attractive you are depends on you - it's not completely fixed at birth or after maturity has set in. We are not cause-and-effect beings, we have consciousness and free will. Which is what you imply in your last two sentences; but you imply the opposite in the preceding sentence, i.e. that one's level is fixed, like a social caste.

Slin
02-16-2011, 04:50 AM
Yeah I think I mostly understand what the two of you saying. It's just that one of my big pet peeves is hearing someone say "Just be yourself" when they are attempting to give dating advice. I think that is about helpful as cornering someone in a boxing match and saying "Uh just go punch the other dude...really hard...or something". Thanks but I'd prefer for my corner man to tell me how to go about accomplishing that goal.

If a guy is truly clueless with how to interact with the opposite sex, I do think it's a good idea to sort of hold his hand in the beginning and guide him with what he should saw and how exactly he should say it. Of course he isn't going to land a date right away but even a little victory such as a girl talking to him for more then 10 minutes will start to build up his confidence and eventually he should be able to get to the point that he'll be able to competently interact with girls in a natural manner.

Full disclosure, I was one of these guys for the longest time and I actually did study PUA material in order to learn the things that most guys kinda figured out on their own when they were in high school or college. I have to say, hearing people (both male and female) saying that I seem confident and personable when they are talking to me was something that I never would have imagined just 2 years ago.

Hopper
02-16-2011, 05:37 AM
Yeah I think I mostly understand what the two of you saying. It's just that one of my big pet peeves is hearing someone say "Just be yourself" when they are attempting to give dating advice. I think that is about helpful as cornering someone in a boxing match and saying "Uh just go punch the other dude...really hard...or something". Thanks but I'd prefer for my corner man to tell me how to go about accomplishing that goal.

I guessed that this is what you thought AJ meant - the "self help" style of advice, which is usually a shallow, ersatz version of real personal development, made up of easy aphorisms and buzz-words. "Being yourself" is good advice for anyone, since you can't really be anything else, but as Bill Cosby once said in a gag about cocaine users: "What if the real you is an asshole?".


If a guy is truly clueless with how to interact with the opposite sex, I do think it's a good idea to sort of hold his hand in the beginning and guide him with what he should saw and how exactly he should say it. Of course he isn't going to land a date right away but even a little victory such as a girl talking to him for more then 10 minutes will start to build up his confidence and eventually he should be able to get to the point that he'll be able to competently interact with girls in a natural manner.

Sure, their's nothing wrong with benefiting from the experience of others. Some "how to succeed with women" style books do contain some sensible and realistic advice. But the overall approach is usually shallow. The whole idea that you can instruct somebody about how to live their life is shallow.


Full disclosure, I was one of these guys for the longest time and I actually did study PUA material in order to learn the things that most guys kinda figured out on their own when they were in high school or college. I have to say, hearing people (both male and female) saying that I seem confident and personable when they are talking to me was something that I never would have imagined just 2 years ago.

Almost Jaded
02-16-2011, 07:04 PM
I think that was AJ's whole point, except that you are understating it and uderrating the value of it. PUA's miss the point that how much "game" you get depends on how attractive you are as a person to begin with. They focus on tactics, gimmicks and tricks instead. They are clueless bozos with no aspirations of improving as people or even an idea about how they could and think everything works by magic formulas.

Bingo.

Here's a true story that hits all the right points.

I have a good friend, we'll call him Nick. Nick's not UNattractive, nice enough features and whatnot, but more "cute" than "hot". He's barely 5'6", bald, and on the skinny side. He's also a truly great guy, a TRUE nice guy. He's also confident without being cocky, and a good conversationalist. This guy gets FAR more attention from women than ANYONE would expect upon first meeting him.

He's also in a shitty relationship with a soul sucking succubus bitch from hell.

And he made certain commitments to her, and because of who he is, he WILL NOT break them - no matter how often she falls through on her end, or is a just plain shitty GF.

So natually MM & I & a couple of our friends have made it our life mission to break them up.

Enter Elle.

ANyone remember the scandalous stripper I mentioned in another thread, the top earner who scams guys left & right, etc? Well, this is her. When you're not a customer and you're in her closest circle, she's an amazing girl in a lot of ways, not the least of which being she's smoking hot.

Well, while she was on the rebound from a highly abusive 2 year relationship she'd just got free of, and Nick was bitching about the succubus, we hooked them up, lol. No WAY Nick will go back to that bitch after hanging with Elle for a while. It probably won't last, but she needs a rebound and he needs a catalyst, so everyone wins.

It started to work. But Nick is a nice guy. And I failed to realize that Nick has no clue how to handle a girl like Elle. So after the first night they are together, she comes to me all pissed off asking WTF my friends problem is, 'cuz she didn't get laid, and NEVER puts herself out there like that, and Nick wouldn't go for her.

The Nick calls and says I had it all wrong, she's not into him, wouldn't even kiss him.

:facepalm:

Nick Nick Nick - you've never been around a girl that will fuck your brains out LONG before she'll kiss you. Or rather, you probably have, I KNOW you have, but the "nice guy" in you thinks that's disrespectful and wouldn't dream of it.

And Elle gave up after one more date, and Nick said he was sorry but he's not the cheating type (btw - bitch from hell - cheated on him 3 times that we know of) but thanks for the amazing experience and introducing him to an amazing girl and is still with the succubus.

Read that story a couple of times and get back to me.

Hopper
02-17-2011, 06:18 AM
^ Somebody needs to remind Nick that he didn't marry this succubus. Partly can't blame him for not expecting a truly hot girl to fuck before kissing, but I wonder what went wrong with the signals there.

Hopper
02-17-2011, 06:59 AM
This 100%. Going by what Hopper has posted here it's obvious to all that he has no respect for any women and certainly not dancers.

I don't know why that is obvious but you only assumed I hate women because I criticised feminism in another thread. I explained at length that hating women is nothing to do with why I hate feminism and that hating feminism and hating women are not the same thing, but you won't listen - you just talk over it with popular feminist dogma. You should show tolerance toward people of other opinions instead of vilifying them just because they disagree with you. You are acting like a judgmental, self-righteous, militant fundamentalist.

Djoser
02-17-2011, 10:10 AM
im just saying if a suave guy like me came into a club. i might be able to win a few hearts.

Go to Daytona, you'd clean up in that town. There are literally thousands of women, in and out of the clubs, who think a guy who would write a sentence like that could actually, somehow be suave. They are that stupid. No offense to the members from Daytona, there were a very few exceptions.

Almost Jaded
02-17-2011, 01:24 PM
^ Somebody needs to remind Nick that he didn't marry this succubus. Partly can't blame him for not expecting a truly hot girl to fuck before kissing, but I wonder what went wrong with the signals there.

We remind of that on a frequent basis. He promised her he wouldn't break up with her before she graduated from law school and put her through the stress of a breakup during her finals etc. She makes him go months without sex, hasn't gone down on him in over a year, and generally treats him like shit. She's not ugly but she's not pretty, she's smart but not articulate, and is as socially awkward as they come. Nick also helps care for her disabled father and feels guilt there too - for no reason other than being too swell of a guy.

As for missing signals - geez, where do I start? LMAO! We introduced them at a race (Nick and I race the same kind of car in the SCCA, that's how we first met) and they hit it off pretty good. A few days later we make sure they both show up to a party at my partners house. They're both excited to see each other, all is well. An hour into the night, MM, both of our GF's, and Elle - all of them disgustingly hot - are topless or completely naked in the pool. Elle (just finished her Playboy shoot a couple of weeks ago BTW) won't leave Nick alone until he finally gets in the pool, and immediately latches onto him. Like, "C'mon Nick, I know you're trying to be sweet, but I'm topless and I got these boobs installed for a reason so quit being shy" and putting his hands on her flawless fake DD's kind of latching on. Other tan a little fondling, no action in the pool. Couple of hours later - "I'm going to shower before we go. C'mon Nick, you're showering with me". No action in the shower according to both of them. "Okay guys, we'll follow you - I'm riding with Nick". No action in the car according to a flat out irate about it Elle, who fully expected and intended to give him head all the way to our destination and isn't shy about saying so.

All it would have taken was ANY move, however subtle or shy, on his part, because she'll put it out there but HE has to show SOME interest or at least TRY. Nope.

She ends up sleeping at our place, in the guest room, he has an invite to spend the night too - in the guest room with her - nope, goes home to his separate bedroom (ya - they haven't shared a bed in months).

Elle dishes to all of us about how pissed she is and he's blown it 'cuz she doesn't put herself out there like that just to get shot down. We talk her into going out with him one more time, and she agrees, because he's a really cool guy and she IS, after all, interested. BUT - "he has a lot of making up to do, he's going to have to work for it this time".

Next time. We go out, dinner, hit a bar. At the bar, things get kinda drunkenly interesting, and Elle makes a not really joking joke about getting a hotel room 'cuz she wants to watch me & MM & the one GF that's with us fuck. Everyone laughs about it but nobody wants to be the one to say yes or no. So we end up in a suite at the MGM, 3 of us on one bed, Nick & Elle in the other. Elle is so hot & bothered watching our action that I think she's finally going to just jump him. They're down to their boxers/panties, watching us go porno style 3some in the next bed - and Nick is shyly snuggling her, and tries to kiss her.

Long story not as long as it could be, a few hours later Nick leaves to go to work, and Elle goes off of to us about him not being man enough to fuck her. Nick calls me and makes the aforementioned statement about Elle's not into him, she wouldn't even kiss him. I explain to Nick that kissing is intimate and means something real to her that's different than sex, and that if she likes you after a good fuck you'll get kissed and a lot more. Elle overhears this and yells "DAMN, I'M MESSING WITH THE WRONG GUY, [Almost Jaded] ACTUALLY GETS IT" while he's still on the phone. They've talked a couple of times but never gone out again.

Mixed signals? Yyeeaaaaa... Not so much.

Almost Jaded
02-17-2011, 01:27 PM
Separate post 'cuz that one was too long already. BUT this one has THE POINT, so don't miss it.

Nice guys frequently have a hard time with the fact that flowers and sweetness mean a lot to a lot of women - but it's not ALL they want. Romance has it's place - so does sweet lovemaking, yadda yadda. But real women, especially but not exclusively very attractive and active women, who are in touch with their sexuality among other things - such as most of the dancers on these boards and many IRL - also want an animal desire, and they want you to show it to them.

There's your book, Slin. There's the tip you wanted for the Nice Guys out there. Make them feel special, make them feel respected - BUT MAKE THEM FEEL WANTED. And once you're in the bedroom, THE SAME RULE APPLIES.

Women like that you're sweet and loving and all that - it's a good, good, thing. But chances are that that asshole you can't figure out why she keeps dating when you're SO much better to her? The one that you think OBVIOUSLY only wants her for sex? Well, he ALSO treats her sweetly sometimes, they have intimate moments and sweet nothings, too. He just ALSO fucks her brains out and occasionally objectifies the ever living hell out of her, in and out of the bedroom, and gets her in touch with her inner slut, which all women have and all women ENJOY as long as the respect is there, too.

The Nice Guys don't get this. Frankly, I think they're intimidated by the inner slut. Well, she's in there guys, and she needs attention too. ;)

Hopper
02-18-2011, 04:22 AM
We remind of that on a frequent basis. He promised her he wouldn't break up with her before she graduated from law school and put her through the stress of a breakup during her finals etc. She makes him go months without sex, hasn't gone down on him in over a year, and generally treats him like shit. She's not ugly but she's not pretty, she's smart but not articulate, and is as socially awkward as they come. Nick also helps care for her disabled father and feels guilt there too - for no reason other than being too swell of a guy.

Okay, so he promised not to break up with her. He is still allowed to cheat on her, because she cheats on him AND won't fuck him for months on end. He wouldn't really be cheating her, because she is a cheater and she cheated first. And he can very considerately make sure she doesn't find out until after her exams.


As for missing signals - geez, where do I start? ...

...

Mixed signals? Yyeeaaaaa... Not so much.

I just want to be really sure. Could Nick have reasonned that she was some kind of crazy cock-tease, because she stripped in the pool, let him fondle her, rode in a car with him and mentioned a BJ, took a shower with him, sat on a bed with him in her panties, but (1) waited for him to actually make the move and (2) wouldn't kiss him before fucking him? He probably thought trying to kiss her was the move and he didn't know that she really wanted to fuck him and wasn't just heavily teasing. Maybe he thought "She won't kiss me - she's just crazy or she's teasing me". And maybe he didn't mention that part to you because he just assumes all of your hot friends are raunchy as hell (you were in a threesome at the MGM with two of them) and he was too nice or awkward to say it anyway.

I probably shouldn't be trying to defend Nick using logical excuses, since his dealings with the succubus are illogical. But at least there could have been this logic to it. Of course he could also be feigning stupidity and using Elle not kissing him as an excuse to not cheat on the succubus. This is supported by his masochistic values; in which case, what he might need is a good talk on ethics.

Sure women want the animal side of sex, but not kissing before fucking, treating kissing as more intimate than fucking, indicates to some guys that she's just messing with his mind, whatever lengths she is going to. We could all be forgiven for assuming that fucking is more intimate for a girl than kissing, no matter how animal she is.

Can we see a pic of Elle's Playboy appearances, just so we can see how hot she is?

KS_Stevia
02-18-2011, 06:43 AM
In Nick's defense, not everyone is a kinky, aggressive, pervert like us, hehe. Some guys really don't like girls who come on too strong. and not everyone wants to watch porno style threesomes, it makes them uncomfortable. I say this because I've been in these situations and have freaked out more than a few guys who were initially into me...by behaving similarly to Elle. Just sayin, it might not be his cup o tea.

Almost Jaded
02-18-2011, 08:40 AM
The MGM scene was date #2, days after the pool party, and it moved to the MGM at like, 4 am, after much more mellow hanging out and some generally accepted carousing. Oh - and while that kinda thing isn't his cup o tea on a daily basis, he isn't freaked out by it, either. Some discussion was had before going to the hotel, lol.

Hopper - I believe her shoot was for Feb 2012 of all things - they're booked way out, LMAO. As a teaser, Google Las Vegas City Life weekly magazine for this weeks issue, the article about Hustler, called "The Wages of Skin" IIRC. The gal on the pole in the pic is one of MM & my 2 girlfriends, and Elle is on that level (we keep telling [GF] to start modeling, she looks like Hally Barry & Rosario Dawson's lovechild) but with fake boobs and white/platinum blond. They're both high 9's though (in a world where a perfect 10 doesn't exist, they're def 10's to a lot of guys, lol). EDIT - hard to find, so here's a link - - and just because, here's our other lovely lady - - not as generally appealing to some, but yum! Sorry, you don't get to see either of US, lol.

Back on topic - you're not too far off Hopper. But you're giving him a little TOO much credit. Mostly, he just didn't know hat to do - like many nice guys less fortunate than he (as he DOES get a lot of attention from ladies), it was more a feeling that if he moved fast he might be disrespecting her, was more afraid of offending her than he was into seeing things happen.

Which is back on point:

The respect and the trying not to offend is GOOD. Women tend to dig that. BUT - the story is there to show that when a lady is flashing a neon sign that says "I WANT TO FUCK YOU" all night, giving her what she wants is another form of respect! Showing a lady that you want her fpr more than a sex object is right and good - AS LONG AS WHEN SHE WANTS IT, YOU CAN AND WILL TREAT HER LIKE ONE AS WELL!

Nice guys too often fail to show that base level of animal attraction. It's not base, it's not beneath you OR her - it's an important component of attraction and a relationship!

Kellydancer
02-18-2011, 02:52 PM
In Nick's defense, not everyone is a kinky, aggressive, pervert like us, hehe. Some guys really don't like girls who come on too strong. and not everyone wants to watch porno style threesomes, it makes them uncomfortable. I say this because I've been in these situations and have freaked out more than a few guys who were initially into me...by behaving similarly to Elle. Just sayin, it might not be his cup o tea.

Agree. I know many men who hate women who come on strong because it scares them. These guys are also into boy/girl relationship sex. My last was this type. He got scared partially because I came on strong.

Kellydancer
02-18-2011, 02:56 PM
I don't know why that is obvious but you only assumed I hate women because I criticised feminism in another thread. I explained at length that hating women is nothing to do with why I hate feminism and that hating feminism and hating women are not the same thing, but you won't listen - you just talk over it with popular feminist dogma. You should show tolerance toward people of other opinions instead of vilifying them just because they disagree with you. You are acting like a judgmental, self-righteous, militant fundamentalist.

Nice try but once again you haven't read anything I've posted. I am NOT a militant self righteous feminist. In fact I loathe those women. No, I base my comments on things you've stated, things like women all love being at home and the like. Hating career women, which you were doing IS the same thing as hating women. It's the same thing because it takes away the choice women have to work or not.

Oh and I have tolerance towards others opinion UNLESS they tell me how I should feel. Then yes I am not tolerant.

Kellydancer
02-18-2011, 03:12 PM
The only time "nice guys" become asexual companions is when they are aiming out of their league. I may get flamed for this, but its a big dose of truth. Most people pair up with mates at a similar level if attractiveness. If a man is lacking in that department, he MUST make up for it in presence (personality, power, social standing) AND/OR money. By a lot.

Very true but something guys ignore. For instance I am what would be considered attractive by many. This isn't bragging, just stating a fact (and this board of course is full of attractive women). However, the guys who contact me but have little to offer is astounding. While I will judge based on many things, a unattractive man must have a better personality than a good looking one. Sadly, I've found more ugly men with nasty personalities than average to good looking men. Yet many guys don't get it. You see it often on online site where these butt ugly, often obese men will look for hot women yet they have little to offer. Sure, they might have personality but can't judge that online.


Separate post 'cuz that one was too long already. BUT this one has THE POINT, so don't miss it.

Nice guys frequently have a hard time with the fact that flowers and sweetness mean a lot to a lot of women - but it's not ALL they want. Romance has it's place - so does sweet lovemaking, yadda yadda. But real women, especially but not exclusively very attractive and active women, who are in touch with their sexuality among other things - such as most of the dancers on these boards and many IRL - also want an animal desire, and they want you to show it to them.

There's your book, Slin. There's the tip you wanted for the Nice Guys out there. Make them feel special, make them feel respected - BUT MAKE THEM FEEL WANTED. And once you're in the bedroom, THE SAME RULE APPLIES.

Women like that you're sweet and loving and all that - it's a good, good, thing. But chances are that that asshole you can't figure out why she keeps dating when you're SO much better to her? The one that you think OBVIOUSLY only wants her for sex? Well, he ALSO treats her sweetly sometimes, they have intimate moments and sweet nothings, too. He just ALSO fucks her brains out and occasionally objectifies the ever living hell out of her, in and out of the bedroom, and gets her in touch with her inner slut, which all women have and all women ENJOY as long as the respect is there, too.

The Nice Guys don't get this. Frankly, I think they're intimidated by the inner slut. Well, she's in there guys, and she needs attention too. ;)

Part of this is the double standard. Many men (especially more conservative) think one sort of girl is for the bedroom and another is to marry. It's part of our culture where this double standard evolved.

For me personally it's a lot of things. Yes I want gifts (who wouldn't?) but on the other hand too many scare me. I've dated guys or were friends with them who would send me gifts everyday. They would call me 2-3 times a day. There's being nice, then there is being clingy.