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michele11
02-09-2011, 08:29 AM
^ Exactly!

Sophia_Starina
02-09-2011, 01:44 PM
Living and working in America is a PRIVILEGE for foreigners.

It is not a RIGHT.

Even for Americans, a job is not guaranteed. Many Americans have been unemployed for over 2 years... and trust me it is not for lack of effort.

When every citizen, every legal immigrant, and everyone that has the appropriate papers to live and work in the states has a job that is steady and pays well... THEN(!!!), we can discuss this issue.

People who do (and have done) the right thing should be protected from greedy opportunists.

Don't like my tone? Too bad. If you are nonchalantly scheming to break the law, take money away from legal dancers, and profit from American dollars without paying any taxes. I don't think that warrants coddling you or candy-coating the situation.

You'd be just as pissed if I were trying to sneak into your club when I had no right to do so.

Oh! And I did want to work in Australia.... but since I can't get a work holiday visa there I'm not going to just show up under false pretenses and break Australian law... even though that country started out as a penal colony (ironic I know!).

You wanna know why? Because it would not be right to work anywhere illegally. And because I am not some conniving miscreant that conspires to slither their way into anyones' place of business. Sorry, MankyRoses.... I call 'em like I see 'em.


For anyone interested in reporting criminal activity, the toll-free hotline is 1-866-347-2423 or 1-866-DHS-2-ICE.
http://www.ice.gov/
Of course, there is also theINS. INS in NY (212) 264-5923

Other Resources:
http://ReportIllegals.com For a $10 fee they submit what you report to various authorities and organizations.
http://WeHireIllegals.com takes reports of suspected employers of illegal aliens.

Sophia_Starina
02-09-2011, 02:28 PM
Keep in mind that it was actually Canada that raised the dancer work visa issue to the point of public scrutiny that both Canada and the US were 'forced' to stop issuing them after the 'stripper scandal'. Also keep in mind that it was actually Canada, Australia, the UK and the other commonwealth countries that grant their own citizens work visa preference over Americans. If there's any grounds for comparative bitching, today's dancer work visa situation is much worse for US girls trying to work abroad than it is for Canadian girls.

Soooo true.

Which is another thing that ticks me off! ManyRoses can work in several countries and yet wants to go to the USA where she cannot secure work papers. So rather than working in one of the other countries that offer canadian citizens the opportunity to work legally, she decides to go online and solicit advice on how to break the law.

I can't tell if this stems from some irrational need to "get the one thing she can't have" or some delusion where she thinks she is above the law and that the law does not pertain to her.


Either way, I don't care to go much further with this topic. I don't have the patience to attempt to reason with an individual that cannot be reasoned with.

ManyRoses, I'm sure you're a nice enough gal but there is something tremendously flawed in your logic and questionable in your character. Since I live in a world where things make sense, I won't be able to understand your point of view. I hope that you reconsider your plan and do what's right.

michele11
02-09-2011, 02:37 PM
^ My point was its super easy for illegals to work here but as an american try going to another country! My mon is australian so I know how hard it is to get into that country and try to work such as it should be here!

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 02:45 PM
Odette - thank you so much for making my point!! I am not looking for people to agree with me, but I would like to be treated with respect!

Sophia - Again, again, and again, may I point out that I wrote the post as a way to look for legal papers (smacks head against wall). And frankly, even if I was "scheming to break the law" (as opposed to scheming to find a way to work within the law?) that still does not entitle you to call me a "terrible person", "evil" and even start making schoolyard nasty nicknames....choose whatever tone you want, but please try to behave like an adult. Your behavior here has been rude, nasty, childish and uncalled for.

Optimist - If I worked in a restaurant etc I would still not be legally allowed to dance. Thanks for the thought, but it would still be illegal. If you have a friend doing this, she is most likely working illegally. Although, if there is some loophole on this that I am missing, and you could figure out what it is, I would absolutely LOVE to know how to do this!!!

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 02:55 PM
I'm also really surprised about the comments on Australia - I know so many girls that have worked there (legally!!) without a problem! Including Canadians, Europeans, and South Africans...all it takes is a working holiday visa. (You can also then extend the working visa by WOOFing, so I have one friend who has been there legally for over two years!) Of course, I do not know the specifics for US citizens or people over 30, but I was surprised to see that it is so hard. In the research that I have done, Australia and Canada are the two easiest countries to work in! When I am done my North American stint, I'll be off to Aus! (And so that is not taken the wrong way, my "stint" currently involves working in Canada and travelling the entire continent)

Also - michelle - if your Mom is Australian (I'm assuming that mon was a typo?) surely it would be easy for you to work there - you should be eligible for a passport!

michele11
02-09-2011, 03:17 PM
Yeah I dont want to work in oz. I was just making a point how ts harder for girls in the U.S. to work in other countries. I have no problem with girls coming here and going through proper chanels to work here. I work in clubs with like 60-100 girls already so a few more doesnt bother me. I also am under the impresson the one making such a stnk is actually um from russia? I am sure shes legal but I mean if you came from another country and are working in the U.S even legally them why bitch. Be glad you can!

Sophia_Starina
02-09-2011, 03:47 PM
Yeah I dont want to work in oz. I was just making a point how ts harder for girls in the U.S. to work in other countries. I have no problem with girls coming here and going through proper chanels to work here. I work in clubs with like 60-100 girls already so a few more doesnt bother me. I also am under the impresson the one making such a stnk is actually um from russia? I am sure shes legal but I mean if you came from another country and are working in the U.S even legally them why bitch. Be glad you can!

It takes a good deal of effort to get a work visa, get a green card, become a citizen, etc.

Since my family & I went through the proper channels and worked really hard to have all the papers we needed I can "bitch" if I see someone trying to cut corners or take short cuts.

My family put in tons of effort to get the privilege to work in the USA. If a person comes over and feels "too good" or "too special" to go through the appropriate procedures, yet still expects to reap the benefits of working in the USA--- it's like a slap in my face. Those benefits are reserved for people who have gone through a whole lot to get them. Why would I sit idly by as undeserving individuals hop on over and take away my money essentially for shits and giggles?


Rather than rehash something that's been said before here is an earlier thread on the topic. http://forum.stripperweb.com/showthread.php?t=111084

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 03:50 PM
^^^Fair enough! I wasn't sure if you thought it would be difficult for you personally to work in oz, so I was a little confused...that makes total sense though!

I wonder if maybe one of the reasons that there are harsher visa restrictions on US girls working elsewhere is a reciprocal situation - i.e., it is easier for a Brit to work in oz because it is easier for an aussie to work in britain? No idea if that makes any sense, but it seems to be the case, intentionally or not.

The really frustrating thing is that there doesn't seem to be ANY "proper channel" to work in the US, short of marrying someone from the US. I'm not sure my boyfriend would be too thrilled about that! If you know of any proper, legal, channel, please, please, please tell me!!

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 03:53 PM
Ha ha - I actually meant m last post in response to Michelle - timing screwed that one up!!

And Sophia - if you used the proper channels to work as a dancer, can you please tell me what they are? This was the original point of the thread, after all! I have no issue putting in whatever effort is needed, but I simply cannot find a way to get a work visa for dancing! Seriously - if you have no problem with someone using the proper channels, and have used them yourself, then why not answer the original question and tell others how to do it?

Sophia_Starina
02-09-2011, 03:58 PM
The really frustrating thing is that there doesn't seem to be ANY "proper channel" to work in the US, short of marrying someone from the US. I'm not sure my boyfriend would be too thrilled about that! If you know of any proper, legal, channel, please, please, please tell me!!

Marrying someone to get citizenship is fraudulent and illegal as well. FYI.

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 04:01 PM
^^^ I know that!

What I was saying, is that unless you marry someone (because you love them!) and therefore, gain US citizenship, there does not seem to be a legal way to dance. It is perfectly legal to marry a US citizen for love!

michele11
02-09-2011, 04:04 PM
^ I know I also have a russian cousin so I know how hard it is. More kudos to you for doing it legally but in an earlier post you did say you something about it being hard enough with the influx of so many dancers and complained about the ones who do it legally too. So I was confused since I knew you were russian?

Sophia_Starina
02-09-2011, 04:06 PM
And Sophia - if you used the proper channels to work as a dancer, can you please tell me what they are? This was the original point of the thread, after all! I have no issue putting in whatever effort is needed, but I simply cannot find a way to get a work visa for dancing! Seriously - if you have no problem with someone using the proper channels, and have used them yourself, then why not answer the original question and tell others how to do it?

I was not a stripper when I came over so I can't answer your question. There are many organizations, attorneys and government offices that have been established for that. Feel free to do the legwork yourself and investigate your options. I'm disinclined to offer advice to you at this time.

Oh, and if there is really no way to get a work visa.... then guess what! You can't work here.


Tough.

Sophia_Starina
02-09-2011, 04:10 PM
^ I know I also have a russian cousin so I know how hard it is. More kudos to you for doing it legally but in an earlier post you did say you something about it being hard enough with the influx of so many dancers and complained about the ones who do it legally too. So I was confused since I knew you were russian?

Don't recall that exactly. But it's plenty tough to make cash (even in my 100% legal club) with the sheer economic turmoil in NYC. Who doesn't complain when a club is over staffed and no one is making money? I'm only human.

But that's kinda not the issue in this thread.

We all vent here from time to time.... I've read dozens of "too many girls" threads. Ya know?

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 04:16 PM
I was not a stripper when I came over so I can't answer your question. There are many organizations, attorneys and government offices that have been established for that. Feel free to do the legwork yourself and investigate your options. I'm disinclined to offer advice to you at this time.

Oh, and if there is really no way to get a work visa.... then guess what! You can't work here.


Tough.

Trust me, I'm doing as much legwork as I can - and part of that is asking a community of dancers if any of them have found a way! As far as I am aware, there isn't one, so its incredibly frustrating to have you talk about how its fine to use the proper channels when there aren't proper channels!! As though I am trying to take short cuts, or I'm lazy, or I'm just choosing to ignore the "correct" way of doing something. Before you talk about why I'm "not using the proper channels" maybe do a little research as to the existence of proper channels...

Sounds like you got a free pass - your parents did a ton of work, and you get the benefits. Lucky you! That's awesome! But now I REALLY don't understand why you are being so vicious to someone who is trying to find a way to do the very same thing that your own parents did - work legally in another country.

sananeko
02-09-2011, 04:23 PM
Does this count as a cat fight?

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 04:28 PM
Possibly - though I'm trying to remain as calm and reasonable as possible, and actually still have a debate.....should I start putting extra (soy) cream in my coffee?
;)

sananeko
02-09-2011, 04:35 PM
Possibly - though I'm trying to remain as calm and reasonable as possible, and actually still have a debate.....should I start putting extra (soy) cream in my coffee?
;)
I've seen fights where one is calm and the other is only looking for a fight.. I wouldn't mind licking the cream off your cute nose but I'll let you keep coffee.

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 04:41 PM
^^ I always prefer licking to fighting! lol

Odette
02-09-2011, 06:22 PM
I was doing some research earlier today and found some things out:
1) Exotic dancing (with the exception of feature dancing) like melonie said, does not qualify for a work permit (non-resident visa/work permit/h1, what have you)
2) Ergo, the next thing to look into would be permenant residency (green card).
3) You can qualify for a green card if you have a job offer from a US company, there are 3 steps, and the entire process takes on average TWO YEARS to be completed. Most companies will simply get you an H1 visa though first off, and then from what I gather, you get your green card later-->which brings us back to the point that while restricted to an H1 visa, you still cannot legally hold another job without seeking permission from the US government
4)"Lottery" green card is the only other option, and citizens of a lot of countries (including Brazil, Canada, the UK, Australia, Dominica, most common wealth countries) are not elligible to apply.

This brings you back to getting sponsored by a US company. That is essentially the only way you can do it---and then, even to dance, you'd need to be sponsored by one of these agencies (or wait the 2 years to go through the green card approval process), which I personally think sounds a lot more sketchy and dangerous than working illegally...these agencies sound like thinly veiled prostitution/trafficking rings...SS may rag on me for saying this, but I would rather get caught by ICE and banned for 10 years then get messed up in that, ManyRoses I'm sure you agree eh? At least getting caught by immigration isn't going to endanger your or your loved ones lives...I think its stupid it should have to come to that though.

ManyRoses
02-09-2011, 07:47 PM
Does anyone know the contact info of any of these agencies? Or of a US agency in general? Any agency that I have dealt with before requires that the dancer have all necessary permits, so that's no good (no way in hell am I going to pay extra to work through an agency if there is no benefit and I'd still be breaking the law!)...but does anyone know of an agency that would actually act as a sponsor?

I would be a little worried about an "agency" that acted more like a prostitute ring, or one that kept my money, charged me money, etc etc. You are absolutely right, Odette, I'd much rather be deported than raped! In fact, I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't! Of course, I'd actually like...neither! (duh! lol)

Has anyone used an agency, or know of any agencies? Even ones for feature dancers - if they can get a feature dancer a visa, maybe we could work something out to get a VIP girl a visa...

Sophia_Starina
02-11-2011, 02:13 AM
Does anyone know the contact info of any of these agencies? Or of a US agency in general? Any agency that I.....


got google?^^^

Sophia_Starina
02-11-2011, 02:22 AM
Does this count as a cat fight?

instigator ;)



Gator....



http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/petros753/Jumping_Gator.jpg

ManyRoses
02-11-2011, 12:49 PM
got google?^^^

Why, yes, I do. I ALSO have a community of women who are also dancers that was created as a way to ask for and give advice on situations pertaining to dancing, such as finding an agency that is exactly what you are looking for, and figuring out which agencies that may pop up on google are any good, and which are money-spinning scams. ::)

Melonie
02-11-2011, 03:41 PM
^^^ actually, Australia's original status as a British (penal) colony, Canada's status as a (loyal) British colony (during the American revolution), South Africa's status as a (loyal) British colony (during the Boer War) etc. are the underlying basis of the 'UK Commonwealth' ... where the former British 'colonists' are still given preferential treatment in Britain, and where British citizens are still given preferential treatment in the former British 'colony' commonwealth countries.

michele11
02-11-2011, 04:24 PM
^ Yeah that is true! When I tell people my grandma was from lancishire ( sp?) and moved to australia they say oh was she a criminal. No asshole she was 5 and her parents wanted to move there.

ManyRoses
02-11-2011, 05:59 PM
^ Yeah that is true! When I tell people my grandma was from lancishire ( sp?) and moved to australia they say oh was she a criminal. No asshole she was 5 and her parents wanted to move there.

Lol...apparently these people have a VERY poor grasp of time....do they think that if your grandma had moved to the states should would have been chucking tea off a boat in a harbor? Or possibly enjoying the first thanksgiving.. ::)

michele11
02-11-2011, 06:22 PM
^ Yeah these are english guys I meet at the club that say this. Lol.

ManyRoses
02-11-2011, 06:51 PM
^^ WOW. Stupidity will never cease to amaze me...I remember when I moved to Canada, and when I was at the bar before my going away dinner waiting for the rest of the group, two guys came up and started hitting on me. With absolutely NO irony, they said (after hearing where I was moving) "Canada....isn't that part of the states? Oh yeah - its that really northern state like Alaska. With the mooses and stuff."

Sure hon. Whatever.

Optimist
02-11-2011, 09:50 PM
^^^^
Man, those dudes were idiots.

That gator was hilarious!

This is a entertaining thread. :D

How about checking out immigrant newspapers with an acquaintance who can translate. I've had Ukie and Polish friends who knew some Russian. That may be the way to go. There's gotta be ads. I had a coworker who did have to get away from a trafficking "agency". That sort of thing does happen but they aren't all like that. The agencies that I knew of made a point of driving you to and from the bookings and they get the money from you and you will pay a higher house fee than the locals do. The clubs generally won't deal with you directly once you've been booked through an agency. Also the agency decides what clubs you get to work and how often. There's an assload of competition for the good clubs but I don't know how they decide who gets what.

sammimaybelle
02-21-2011, 04:50 AM
:O You totally hopped the train to crazyville with that one.

lol. i thought the same thing!! this was def an entertaining thread, but it does upset me to see you being so rude, sophia, no need. everyone's shit stinks.
and many roses you were so cute and nice in your responses despite the "evil"ness in you, good luck in your travels hun. x

Sophia_Starina
02-22-2011, 03:25 PM
Oh! And I did want to work in Australia.... but since I can't get a work holiday visa there I'm not going to just show up under false pretenses and break Australian law... even though that country started out as a penal colony (ironic I know!).



:O You totally hopped the train to crazyville with that one.


lol. i thought the same thing!! this was def an entertaining thread

Uhmmm...

Melonie cleared it up for BringOnTheMen... but sammi, you clearly missed it.

^^^ actually, Australia's original status as a British (penal) colony...


BringOnTheMen, sammimaybelle....
Your ignorance of Australian history does not indicate that I am "crazy" nor that I have "hopped" any form of transportation to "crazyville": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convicts_in_Australia

This history lesson is in no way relevant to the topic. However, I do hope this brief educational session will help BringOn, sammi, and anyone else who was confused get the joke.

BOTM & Sammi please stay in school.

ManyRoses
02-26-2011, 01:24 PM
lol. i thought the same thing!! this was def an entertaining thread, but it does upset me to see you being so rude, sophia, no need. everyone's shit stinks.
and many roses you were so cute and nice in your responses despite the "evil"ness in you, good luck in your travels hun. x

Thanks sweetie! I appreciate the well wishes! :)

sammimaybelle
02-27-2011, 02:29 PM
i wasn't laughing bc what you said wasnt true, babe. i was laughing cuz you are shit stick crazy!!! i'm not ignorant but open-minded.... and I understand that you can't just take everything (or everyone) at face value...unlike someone familiar... uh oh yes...you. but if you want to keep posting rude and unhelpful statements go right ahead, like i said finding this quite entertaining...

KS_Stevia
02-27-2011, 03:20 PM
all debate aside, its much easier for Brits, Canadians, aussies, south africans, and kiwis to find work in each and everyone of those countries due to reciprocal agreements.

Its almost impossible for an unskilled US citizen to find work in any of the above countries. Of course, US women do it all the time, just like they do it here.

But ManyRoses, Sofia and Melonie are 100% correct here, you have much more opportunity to work in any of the above listed countries than we do.

Sophia_Starina
02-27-2011, 09:09 PM
BA in french and international politics....did i mention i'm fluent in french?? and i have lived abroad 4+ years of my life? and i'm not ignorant but open-minded.... and I understand that you can't just take everything (or everyone) at face value...unlike someone familiar... uh oh yes...you. but if you want to keep posting rude and unhelpful statements go right ahead, like i said finding this quite entertaining...

my first sw cat fight, lovin it

Fight? I'm not here to cause any conflict. I dunno why you are so keen on causing trouble?? /:O


Kudos on studying French.... va te faire foutre.
If you care to add another language to your repertoire I can totally coach you in Russian.
Пёс ёб твою мать (Peace be with you!)

precise212
02-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Пёс ёб твою мать (Peace be with you!)[/QUOTE]

Oh, hahaha, that's hilarious!(naschet kobelya !)

Sophia_Starina
02-27-2011, 09:42 PM
Пёс ёб твою мать (Peace be with you!)

Oh, hahaha, that's hilarious!(naschet kobelya !)




:meditate:

sammimaybelle
02-28-2011, 04:20 AM
ok so.....you aren't trying to start a conflict but you tell me to go fuck myself in french. again....seen nothing from you but rude and unhelpful comments.

this is a lil off topic but today my friend and i were talking about how much people that spout of ridiculous and unnecessary thoughts are a drain on society...but how our lives are so much better for the laugh we get over it....for example how funny would the daily show be if there weren't stupid and ridiculous politicians/media/entertainment/etc. i don't approve of the message that people like sophia care to spread but as i have repeatedly said, the entertainment value is priceless...ball back in your court.

Odette
02-28-2011, 05:06 PM
tabarnak!

sammy, I think you're a cool chick :) On the topic of commonwealth ease for working in other commonwealth countries...forgive me for touching on a touchy topic...I say touchy because no one has yet mentioned it and I think its the elephant in the room in regards to this subject but....*cough*americanrevolution*cough*? Yeah, it was a good two hundred years ago but a whole bunch of british/commonwealth citizens were kind of killed in that war sooooooooooooo maybe that miiiiight just be an itsybitsyteensyweensie part of why the favouritism (because no one will deny that it is favouritism) towards commonwealth countries exists in comparison to the more rigid attitudes towards ammericans?

Also, like sophia's demonstrated, americans can have a tendency to be pretty touchy about immigration and foreigners in their country...it almost seems like the country is trying to isolate itself sometimes with its general attitudes on these topics, I'm sure if the US had a more open door policy, other countries would reciprocate?

These are just musings in my head, they're really not based on anything other than common knowledge so if I'm missing facts that are relevant, I will stand corrected :)

TequilatoKillYa
02-28-2011, 06:12 PM
This isn't about (aboot-- as you say) me! This is about you conspiring with other ne'er-do-wells to cross the border, falsely report that you are in the USA on a vacation, and weasel your conniving little butt into an American club with the express intention to snatch American cash away from the people that took the time and effort to get a working visa and/or live in the USA and pay income taxes.

You can want to work legally. If you aren't working legally… you are an evil little sneak, a weasel, a criminal, and a terrible person.

Just sayin'...


wow vas te faire foutre toi meme ma f****ing conasse lol tuvaux pas la marde a la vache au voisin

Mankyroses?what kind of 3 year old namecalling is that? really how fucking old are you. Your posts infuriated me so much and the childishness of it seems actuallyquite contagious to me, I'm not staying mature and trying to talk this out cuz youre obviously not fucking reasonable, as she tried to talk to you calmy and you were still a cunt.So im not witholding the swearing.Lol youre an effing stuck up cunt. AND now youre gonna laugh at how you ignorantly think Canadians speak too?wow." Omg you are trying to get in my country illegally? breaking the law? You should def be in a cold cage with no toilet or food, how are you still on the loose?" im sure youre a damn angel.You need to ..I cant even find the word for the combination of major things you should change. /endrant

KS_Stevia
02-28-2011, 06:54 PM
Пёс ёб твою мать (Peace be with you!)

:D}:D;D

Sophia_Starina
03-04-2011, 12:40 PM
wow vas te faire foutre toi meme ma f****ing conasse lol tuvaux pas la marde a la vache au voisin

Mankyroses?what kind of 3 year old namecalling is that? really how fucking old are you. Your posts infuriated me so much and the childishness of it seems actuallyquite contagious to me, I'm not staying mature and trying to talk this out cuz youre obviously not fucking reasonable, as she tried to talk to you calmy and you were still a cunt.So im not witholding the swearing.Lol youre an effing stuck up cunt. AND now youre gonna laugh at how you ignorantly think Canadians speak too?wow." Omg you are trying to get in my country illegally? breaking the law? You should def be in a cold cage with no toilet or food, how are you still on the loose?" im sure youre a damn angel.You need to ..I cant even find the word for the combination of major things you should change. /endrant

Dude. Calm down.
It is a touchy subject for me because my family worked very hard to "do right" and get legal status in order to live and work in the USA.
I'm not saying foreigners should never come to America... I'm not saying international folks can't come here and build a better life.
My only gripe is international people coming to the USA and working illegally. It's not like America is an overflowing fountain gushing cold hard cash. There is barely enough $ for folks that have done the right thing every step of the way. Unemployment is out of control. And dancing in the states is much tougher than it was before.

Should I jump up and down screaming "hooray, yippee!" when some girl feels she is entitled to fudge the laws that are in place to protect folks that went through the lengthy, arduous system that America has established? Should I be thrilled?

Roses may want to work legally in NY (my state, fyi) but if she cannot do it she shouldn't come on a tourist visa and decide to work (ignoring the limitations on her papers)... she shouldn't get married for a green card.... she shouldn't say "oh well, I'll chance it and hopefully I'll come out on top, teehee".

To summarize:

I do not condone working in America illegally. So that makes me a *cxxx*. I don't think so. ::)