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eagle2
02-20-2011, 01:24 PM
More nonsense. I don't know anyone who tried to defend Clinton by attacking Lewinsky. How was Monica Lewinsky the "victim" in a consensual affair between two adults?

Kellydancer
02-20-2011, 01:27 PM
Blaming the victim has little or nothing to do with political ideology when it comes to blaming the victim. Look at the Clinton scandal and how they tried to defend him by attacking Lewinsky as well as those going after him for his indiscretions.

I blamed him and I laughed when people blamed Lewinsky. Sure both were to blame, but him being married I blame more

eagle2
02-20-2011, 01:35 PM
The people that I blame are the nuts who felt it was necessary to spend hundreds of millions of dollars investigating a president's sex life.

Kellydancer
02-20-2011, 01:46 PM
The people that I blame are the nuts who felt it was necessary to spend hundreds of millions of dollars investigating a president's sex life.

Me too, then they completely ignored the next president's lies about Iraq.

Trem
02-20-2011, 01:48 PM
And the proof of this is......? Show me where stoning, cutting off hands, and "honor" killings (or whatever they are called) were advocated by American conservatives.



What's the point? to you those things seem horrific but forcing a woman to carry an unwanted child inside her body is perfectly fine. You are just as fucked up as they are, you want to control women just as much as they do.

KS_Stevia
02-20-2011, 02:26 PM
^^^ which brings us full circle back to the facts that Egypt is a muslim country that expects women to wear Burkhas and enforces Sharia law ( to some degree ), that the 'western' female reporter entered a highly volatile area of Egypt dressed in a provocative western fashion in definite violation of Sharia law, that Egyptian males reacted in a manner that isn't technically against Sharia law, etc. A reality attack is definitely overdue i.e. western media and western citizen opinions / values etc. are NOT shared by the rioting Egyptian crowd, their Muslim Brotherhood organizers, nor via the Pew poll the majority of future 'democratic' Egyptian voters !

This is untrue about Egypt. Right now things are volatile, but typically, most women there dress in a combination of western and conservative dress. The strong tourism economy brings in (brought in?) women from all over the world. I know dozens of women who go there annually to train in dance. Its typically one of the safest and most progressive countries in the middle east...or technically, north africa.

What will happen in the future though, anyone's guess right now. But everyone is lumping all of these countries together when in fact the protests, revolts, culture, standard of living, and religious indocrination varies amongst all of them.

I'm also shocked at the similarity of the men on this board to the thinking of the very men they hate. "attractive women have no place outside of the western world, you're only safe in mama america. So stay home and keep us fed and our dicks sucked."

The misoginy is about the same but we have some superior legal recourse here in the west, that's about it.

Lacy Luck
02-20-2011, 02:38 PM
Really...She was asking for it .
.... because her skirt was too short
.... because she showed too much skin
.... because she was too attractive
.... because she was outside a bar at 2am
.... because she was at a place where men are

Which is the westerner? Which is the "extremist"?

The fact of the matter is there is no such thing as SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT. That is exactly what blaming the victim is. If we are not barbarians, we would know that there is no such thing as "asking" to be assaulted. Nobody wants or deserves to be assaulted, ever.

Kellydancer
02-20-2011, 02:44 PM
This is untrue about Egypt. Right now things are volatile, but typically, most women there dress in a combination of western and conservative dress. The strong tourism economy brings in (brought in?) women from all over the world. I know dozens of women who go there annually to train in dance. Its typically one of the safest and most progressive countries in the middle east...or technically, north africa.

What will happen in the future though, anyone's guess right now. But everyone is lumping all of these countries together when in fact the protests, revolts, culture, standard of living, and religious indocrination varies amongst all of them.

I'm also shocked at the similarity of the men on this board to the thinking of the very men they hate. "attractive women have no place outside of the western world, you're only safe in mama america. So stay home and keep us fed and our dicks sucked."

The misoginy is about the same but we have some superior legal recourse here in the west, that's about it.

It's because so many Americans don't know much about Islamic countries. Many think all the women in all these countries dress in burkhas and it's simply not true. I had a classmate from Jordan and she dressed in western clothes. Someone asked her about wearing burkhas in Jordan and she looked at them and stated she never even wore a scarf there. Yet for some reason people thought she was lying. As far as I know (I would have to look further into it) the only Islamic countries that require women to be covered are Saudi Arabia and Iran (though in Iran from what I've heard it's not as drastic). Of course the Taliban required it in Afghanistan too. I've heard in most other Islamic countries certain areas of the country are more strict where you may have to be covered. I got this info from author who writes several middle eastern books.

I too am shocked by several of the men here. I can name off the top of my head several chauvinist male posters who think women are below them. I get satisfaction in thinking they are probably the same guys spending hundreds on a stripper thinking she'll sleep with them but she never does.

Rookie2010
02-20-2011, 02:45 PM
that is an extremist, whether it be from western culture or not, all i am saying is you are making it out that all western men believe this, you are wrong

i really don't think any normal person would blame the victim for getting attacked or puts any thought into this notion of "she was asking for it" that is ludicrous and does not make one bit of sense

Lacy Luck
02-20-2011, 02:47 PM
that is an extremist, whether it be from western culture or not, all i am saying is you are making it out that all western men believe this, you are wrong

i really don't think any normal person would blame the victim for getting attacked or puts any thought into this notion of "she was asking for it" that is ludicrous and does not make one bit of sense

Clearly you have not read the articles posted in this thread.

eagle2
02-20-2011, 02:48 PM
I don't think that. I know numerous women who have traveled to Egypt without problems. What I see as being unsafe, is reporting from the middle of the protests, just because there is no way of knowing what kind of people are going to these protests and whether or not they will turn violent.

I think the people that have this point of view about women traveling to Muslim countries are the conservatives who's views are based on caricatures created in the conservative media. Conservatives often create caricatures of those they disagree with, and then they base their views on these caricatures. They have done this with President Obama, creating this caricature of him as a secret Muslim/socialist, born in Kenya, whose goal is to turn the US into a socialist/Muslim country. They've done this with Muslims, portraying all Muslims as believing women should have no rights and should be forced to cover their entire body, even though there are countless Muslims who don't think like that. The current Miss USA is actually a Muslim.

eagle2
02-20-2011, 02:50 PM
Really...She was asking for it .
.... because her skirt was too short
.... because she showed too much skin
.... because she was too attractive
.... because she was outside a bar at 2am
.... because she was at a place where men are

Which is the westerner? Which is the "extremist"?

The fact of the matter is there is no such thing as SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT. That is exactly what blaming the victim is. If we are not barbarians, we would know that there is no such thing as "asking" to be assaulted. Nobody wants or deserves to be assaulted, ever.

I agree. The people who sexually assaulted her were 100% to blame.

Rookie2010
02-20-2011, 02:52 PM
I agree. The people who sexually assaulted her were 100% to blame.
Of course they were. I really don't understand how anyone else could see it any other way.

Rookie2010
02-20-2011, 03:02 PM
Clearly you have not read the articles posted in this thread.


Just because some nut jobs want to believe that it is ok to blame the victim for something they have no control over, does not mean that this is the view of "westerners"
it is the view of extremists, whether they be muslim, western, or any other decent

KS_Stevia
02-20-2011, 03:08 PM
I apologize for being unclear, its not all western men. Just saying...that I'm reading a lot of stuff on here, and in other places, hearing it from people I know..its not a minority opinion...even women think this way. Just saying...on average, are western people really that much more progressive.

Certainly, Rookie, eagle, and others, are not in that category. I shouldn't make sweeping generalisations either.

Trem
02-20-2011, 03:46 PM
Didn't a male reporter from CNN get shot while covering the war in Iraq? all i remember everyone talking about was what a hero he was, not a word about how he shouldn't have been there in the first place. And that was a fucking war, not a protest.

Athenathefabulous
02-21-2011, 06:17 PM
What is disturbing here is not the fact that 'western' values were not upheld. The disturbing fact is that they WERE. The 'westerners' blame the victim too. THE BARBARY IS UNIVERSAL. That is what bothers me. The American male and the muslim extremist are of the same mind, they both think women should stay at home and if they venture out, they are asking for it. We like to believe we are so much better here, but we aren't.

THANK YOU! I could not express this better myself... while i acknowledge that not all western men fit into this category, the fact that a significant portion of people in AMERICA are saying this is horrible but she should have known better than to be a white woman among those muslims is not all that better than them saying oh she is a white woman amont us, she's fair game. So yes, this attitude of blame the victim is definitely part of american culture.

And in regards to the last few posts on abortion, as the OP could yall take it to another thread? there are like at least 3 other active threads right now arguing about abortion. i would prefer this thread be related to this particular news story and the attitudes/implications surrounding it. not another abortion thread.... im tired of reading those :(.

Trem
02-21-2011, 06:23 PM
Sorry, done.

ArmySGT.
02-21-2011, 06:56 PM
Didn't a male reporter from CNN get shot while covering the war in Iraq? all i remember everyone talking about was what a hero he was, not a word about how he shouldn't have been there in the first place. And that was a fucking war, not a protest.

Poor analogy. Many Journalists have been killed covering the recent conflicts or have been permanently maimed.

War correspondents go with Friendly Troops. Wear helmets and flak vests and either travel in friendly armored vehicles or bring one.

War correspondents go in knowing a high probability exists of being killed. Knowing full well hat bullets hit civilian bodies just as they do soldiers, and mines and IEDs don't discriminate on career choice.

You report a house fire from the street not standing in the living room. Floods are observed from high ground not neck deep in the water.

Don't report the Mob from in the mob. It is a seething violent angry mass not New Years in times Square.

These less developed countries have time and again shown no regard for Hague or Geneva conventions on any other matter, why start with freedom and protection of the press?

bem401
02-21-2011, 07:05 PM
I've seen no first-hand footage of any of this but I would guess CBS was probably embracing the overthrow of Mubarek and sent reporters into a celebrating crowd. All hell broke loose, they found themselves in over their head, and this poor woman paid the price. CBS apparently let their guard down or is just naive to begin with.

ArmySGT.
02-21-2011, 07:24 PM
A summary of attacks some pretty violent against Journalists days before Lara Logan was attacked covering the Mob.

Djoser
02-25-2011, 03:45 AM
Enough about abortion.


Now, as far as saying western women in particular need to exercise a little (or a lot) of caution around huge mobs of Moslem men in the Eastern hemisphere. More so than men in the same circumstances. I said so. And I still believe it.

Of course it wasn't 'her fault'. Saying "Hey you should be careful around those guys (especially if there are thousands of them), this is not the same as Times Square." is not the same as saying "It'll be YOUR fault if they rape you."

Women should be able to walk anywhere on the face of this earth, stark raving naked, without fear of rape, assault, stoning, acid attacks, etc. If they are attacked for supposedly flaunting whatever bizarre, atavistic, repressive, fucking sexist bullshit fashion and/or comportment customs, it is not 'their fault'. Men who rape women should have their dicks cut off, regardless of what the women were or weren't wearing at the time, whether they were dancing provocatively, whether they had been active sexually previous to the attacks with respectful consensual partners, whatthehellever.

BUT, saying that it is dangerous to flaunt western modes of female dress and comportment around mobs of men in the Middle East is not at all unreasonable in my mind.

My understanding of the situation in Egypt is that there are certain areas where it is perfectly safe for unescorted women to wear close-fitting western apparel, etc. And certain areas where it is not. Such as the middle of a huge fucking mob perhaps.