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xxxchili
03-13-2011, 10:16 PM
I guess I read all of this and I still don't know what you "want" out of all of this. If you want to pay a dancer to be your friend, then why do you care if she wants a computer? I mean damn, you can get a laptop for $400. Buy her a laptop and drive to her place and hook it up!! You would probably get all kinds of quality time outta that. I really don't see what the problem is...

chrischris
03-13-2011, 10:32 PM
lol yeah they do seem to be jumping your shit pretty good!

But it seems by your own admission that you've seen the light and maybe you're ready to move on past this girl. "Better to have kinda-loved and lost...." and all that good crap ;D.
Like you said - lesson learned.


No its really cool though, I really do appreciate the time everyone here took in offering their inputs and advice. Even better the harsher comments because that nailed into my head more that what I was doing was compeletly wrong and stupid. I actually feel embarressed thinking about it, what if I told my guy friends what I did? LOL

Sometimes when someone does something wrong they dont realise what they are doing is wrong. They have be told countless time by others that its wrong. And I think here is a good example that no one was sugar coating any of this shit to give into what I wanted to hear.

Yup, definetly lessoned learned. I am glad I learned it now otherwise I would continue on spending more and more money on her with no result in the end.

Sometimes you learn the hard way, I sure did :P

chrischris
03-13-2011, 10:34 PM
I guess I read all of this and I still don't know what you "want" out of all of this. If you want to pay a dancer to be your friend, then why do you care if she wants a computer? I mean damn, you can get a laptop for $400. Buy her a laptop and drive to her place and hook it up!! You would probably get all kinds of quality time outta that. I really don't see what the problem is...


Wanted friendship but not going to happen.

Why do I have to keep paying for it? When will it stop? Genuine frienship is not based on money. Friends dont ask friends to pay for things like that. Thats not TRUE friendship.

There is no problem anymore, problem is already solved. Its time to move on, thats it.

xxxchili
03-13-2011, 11:19 PM
I don't think genuine friendship ever starts out by paying someone to hang out. Strip clubs are a fantasy. You should remember that every time that you walk in. And just because you take the fantasy outside the club...it still isn't real. Good luck.

arielbriel
03-14-2011, 12:47 AM
So, if you wanted "friendship", why did you bring up sex on here?
And I don't understand why you need to stop seeing her. Just tell her you'd like to go over your arrangement. Ask her if there is anything more that she desires. If it's money, gifts, let her know there is something you also desire and tell her. I'm not sure if there IS something more you desire (sex?). That is something you need to figure out. Just dropping her seems harsh since it doesn't really seem like she did anything wrong. This is all normal in a sugar daddy relationship. Yes sugardaddies usually have sex with the girl, too but you have yet to bring it up so can you really be all pissy? No. In SD/SB relationship, cash AND gifts are the norm. She asked for a laptop, so what? You can get it for her and she will be happy or you don't have to and I'm sure she will be content with the cash you already give her. I mean, talk with her first.

chrischris
03-14-2011, 06:06 AM
So, if you wanted "friendship", why did you bring up sex on here?
And I don't understand why you need to stop seeing her. Just tell her you'd like to go over your arrangement. Ask her if there is anything more that she desires. If it's money, gifts, let her know there is something you also desire and tell her. I'm not sure if there IS something more you desire (sex?). That is something you need to figure out. Just dropping her seems harsh since it doesn't really seem like she did anything wrong. This is all normal in a sugar daddy relationship. Yes sugardaddies usually have sex with the girl, too but you have yet to bring it up so can you really be all pissy? No. In SD/SB relationship, cash AND gifts are the norm. She asked for a laptop, so what? You can get it for her and she will be happy or you don't have to and I'm sure she will be content with the cash you already give her. I mean, talk with her first.


I brought up sex because I thought thats what she was expecting me to counter back at, I really dont know. Maybe her "coach" is telling her to do this because she knows what my counter offer would be, maybe I dont know. How else would she expect these gifts, for free? But again I really dont know and really dont care anymore.

What I do know for sure is that I am overanalyzing and overthinking this situation way too much. The time that I am spending and thinking about what I should do and dont do to her is overboard. I bet you she is not even thinking about me one bit and that time she that she is thinking about me is when we are on these "dates". My focus should be on my work and try to establish myself for my future and not worry about this hobby too much.

I did talk to her, 6 months and thousands of dollars I think thats a lot of time and talking. The problem is that the ROOT of this so called "relationship" was wrong to begin with. No matter how well you want to make the situation your way, you cant. Money was inloved in the beginning and always will be for this platonic relationship to last. If I pull money out the picture its obvious what will happen. I have had several relationships in real life before and some of them were long term relationships but I knew how to handle those because of my experience, but in this case her occupation and the atmosphere she works in is something thats not my cup of tea and I have no experience in. And truthfully I dont want to dip into this experience any further.

I just had to understand myself that this was stupid to begin with and moved on earlier. Thats all.

Hopper
03-14-2011, 06:23 AM
I hate to do this to you, but there is the possibility that if you take away the paid OTC, she will opt for a relationship, given that you are still relatively young and make six figures. If you had stuck to LDs ITC you might have had a shot at a relationship but since you offered her the more lucrative paid OTC route she took that instead. Therefore if you take that away, she might take the other, which could still be attractive to her (at least financially if not personally). RickDugan pointed out that you will probably never get out of the "sucker who paid for my company" category with her, but possibly she would just consider it a big fat compliment. (Proportionately to your income, you did not spend very much on her.)

Not likely, but maybe worth trying. You would still have to watch that she doesn't take advantage of you but if she bothers you with any crap then you can just drop her when you've had enough of it.

chrischris
03-14-2011, 06:38 AM
I hate to do this too you, but there is the possibility that if you take away the paid OTC, she will opt for a relationship, given that you are still relatively young and make six figures. If you had stuck to LDs ITC you might have had a shot at a relationship but since you offered her the more lucrative paid OTC route she took that instead. Therefore if you take that away, she might take the other, which could still be attractive to her (at least financially if not personally). RickDugan pointed out that you will probably never get out of the "sucker who paid for my company" category with her, but possibly she would just consider it a big fat compliment. (Proportionately to your income, you did not spend very much on her.)

Not likely, but maybe worth trying. You would still have to watch that she doesn't take advantage of you but if she bothers you with any crap then you can just drop her when you've had enough of it.


Time will tell on that. Maybe as she gets deeper into this business she will understand. I think I spoiled her to much, $500 is A LOT of LDs she has to do inside the club with a lot of other guys that she has to hustle to sell a dance to. Then on top of that her time she has to work (6-7 hours), the tip outs and club fees she has to do. I really dont know anymore, I am not a expert in this field.

xxxchili
03-14-2011, 08:18 AM
What do you want her to understand??? That she should be your friend for free because you're a great guy?? I know you may think $500 is a lot of money and that she owes you something (friendship?), but she doesn't. I get offers to go outside of the club for dinner too, but I don't go. All of the reasons you list, dancing for other guys, tipping house, taking more time, all of that is WORTH IT because I am at least somewhat SAFE in my club! I don't have to worry if this $500 to go to dinner is gonna get me killed by a psycho. So to me, going out with you for $500 just isn't worth the risk. I feel much safer inside my club.

Bottom line...believe it or not, there were customers before you and there will be plenty after you. Some better and some worse. Hell, when I was working at club in scottsdale, a girl was tipped $20K. Think she cares if she's friends with that guy or not?? or that the guy who tipped her wants to be friends?? She spent the whole damn time talking to this guy about her boyfriend.. and he felt bad about her situation. This is a pay to play experience. If you don't want to pay....don't play. Believe me, the only thing that you taught her is that guys like you are out there and she can capitalize on it. If you thought that if you spent enough money on her that she would fall madly and deeply in love with you...you're wrong.

Going to stripclubs looking for a dancer to be a "true friend" is a waste of time and money....you might as well pay someone to kick you in the balls.

bem401
03-14-2011, 08:53 AM
I still maintain the thing to do is tell her you are no longer interested in paying for her time but you'd like to remain friends and occasionally hang out on your dime. In all likelihood, you will get shot down but, like Hopper said, you never know.

My feeling is you've just exhausted the expected six-month shelf life of a regular customer, as has been discussed quite a bit on this board.

chrischris
03-14-2011, 09:22 AM
What do you want her to understand??? That she should be your friend for free because you're a great guy?? I know you may think $500 is a lot of money and that she owes you something (friendship?), but she doesn't. I get offers to go outside of the club for dinner too, but I don't go. All of the reasons you list, dancing for other guys, tipping house, taking more time, all of that is WORTH IT because I am at least somewhat SAFE in my club! I don't have to worry if this $500 to go to dinner is gonna get me killed by a psycho. So to me, going out with you for $500 just isn't worth the risk. I feel much safer inside my club.

Bottom line...believe it or not, there were customers before you and there will be plenty after you. Some better and some worse. Hell, when I was working at club in scottsdale, a girl was tipped $20K. Think she cares if she's friends with that guy or not?? or that the guy who tipped her wants to be friends?? She spent the whole damn time talking to this guy about her boyfriend.. and he felt bad about her situation. This is a pay to play experience. If you don't want to pay....don't play. Believe me, the only thing that you taught her is that guys like you are out there and she can capitalize on it. If you thought that if you spent enough money on her that she would fall madly and deeply in love with you...you're wrong.

Going to stripclubs looking for a dancer to be a "true friend" is a waste of time and money....you might as well pay someone to kick you in the balls.


I am just getting pounded by all the strippers now :) , now I am the phycho lol ok.

She has ever right to do whatever she wants and I have every right to move on. Whats wrong with that?

I am glad you understand that it isnt easy to meet a dancer OTC, I think its safe to say that I established a good sense of security and comfort in her mind that she would even allow me a chance to see her. Trust me it wasnt easy.

So my thoughts might be a little different than yours since I did see her outside and seen her many times OTC. So far in these responses theres not that many girls to say they met their customers OTC for paid lunch countless times. If they did I'd like to know what happened in the end of that "relationship".

In no way I feel she is obligated to fall in love with me because of what I did, no she doesnt. Yes I know know its pay to play, and I dont want to play anymore. Thats the good thing about these clubs is that once your in you enjoy your time and whatever but as soon as you walk out of that club your mind and focus is back to the real world. Just have your fun and leave thats it. I really dont care anymore. I had to go through this process myself to learn my mistakes.

chrischris
03-14-2011, 09:33 AM
I still maintain the thing to do is tell her you are no longer interested in paying for her time but you'd like to remain friends and occasionally hang out on your dime. In all likelihood, you will get shot down but, like Hopper said, you never know.

My feeling is you've just exhausted the expected six-month shelf life of a regular customer, as has been discussed quite a bit on this board.


Like I said before its easy to judge and analyze the outcome of events. If they go good, nobody says anything. If they go bad, your will get all the blame for it.

I need to focus more on my life and start finding a real woman that likes me for me not about what I have in my pockets.

bem401
03-14-2011, 09:52 AM
I need to focus more on my life and start finding a real woman that likes me for me not about what I have in my pockets.

You're pretty much being advised to do that by a few people here. Its entirely possible for a dancer to be that woman, I have several dancers I'm friendly with away from the club and it has nothing to do with $$$. Its just highly unlikely given the circumstances and time frame in your case.

chrischris
03-14-2011, 09:56 AM
You're pretty much being advised to do that by a few people here. Its entirely possible for a dancer to be that woman, Its just highly unlikely given the circumstances and time frame in your case.


Understood 8)

xxxchili
03-14-2011, 10:57 AM
I'm not saying you're a psycho...you're probably a nice guy...just take it for what it is...Walking into a strip club you entered a world of bullshit...don't try and make "true friendship" out of bullshit.

jack0177057
03-14-2011, 11:35 AM
I need to focus more on my life and start finding a real woman that likes me for me not about what I have in my pockets.

First of all, there is nothing wrong with your arrangement - as long as you get your money's worth (i.e., sex - lots of it). Computers are very cheap nowadays, so, if you can negotiate a few night-long sexual sessions for a $600 computer, you've done well...

Look at Yoda, he relies on P4P for female companionship and seems much happier than the average guy in a "free sex" relationship.

To some extent - EVERY woman is going to care about what you have in your pockets (specially, if you're over 25). I'm sure you're looking for a young gorgeous woman with awesome T & A. The better looking she is, the more she's going to care about your $$$$ and what you can offer her ... that's just life, my friend. If she's a prize, you can bet that better men than you are chasing after her and willing to spend a lot of money to "win" her affection. You care about her looks, she cares about your pockets (unless you are so extremely handsome that she want to buy you things) -- all is fair in love and war.

If your dancer friend is stunningly beautiful,... then, before dumping her, take her around and use her to meet other prospects. A hot lady by your side has a way of making you look ten times as attractive as you really are. She can be your "wingwoman". Then, after she's served this purpose, do what you must.

chrischris
03-14-2011, 11:42 AM
I'm not saying you're a psycho...you're probably a nice guy...just take it for what it is...Walking into a strip club you entered a world of bullshit...don't try and make "true friendship" out of bullshit.


True that. :)

chrischris
03-14-2011, 12:17 PM
jack0177057,

I am fine I dont want to do anything else with her. I hope the best for her and I have no hard feelings about what I did.

On the bright side of things I did have a lot of fun with her, they tell you a lot of inside info in the club (which girls hate each other, dancers dating the managers and bouncers, girls that are pregnant :O)

lopaw
03-14-2011, 12:33 PM
To some extent - EVERY woman is going to care about what you have in your pockets (specially, if you're over 25).


oh REALLY?

EVERY woman, huh?


I for one don't give a crap about what any man has in his pockets - figuratively or literally. And I'd guess that the rest of the gay female population feels the same way - not to mention all of the strong, doing-damn-well-on-their-own-thank-you-very-much straight ladies out there in the world. And no - not even to some extent.


But I guess you feel that you can speak for EVERY woman out there, eh? /:O

cherryblossomsinspring
03-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Wanted friendship but not going to happen.

Why do I have to keep paying for it? When will it stop? Genuine frienship is not based on money. Friends dont ask friends to pay for things like that. Thats not TRUE friendship.

There is no problem anymore, problem is already solved. Its time to move on, thats it.

Wait I feel lost now. So you wanted friendship? Or you wanted a friend only companion. I'm confused. Why would you want to go to a club and make this stripper your friend. This doesn't sound like friendship if you're using her status and looks to get nods from people. Also why would money even be in the picture to begin with? I think this is what is coming out. You're looking for more and you started out paying. I currently just went through through this same thing yet again.

The site I started on has made a guest become a full on premium member and he's been my highest contributor. Now he no longer likes the site and feels he shouldn't have to pay for my attention. He now wants to call me to just call me which is unfair. I never made any promises , actually I was pretty straight forward. But because I have a great time during our private sessions, he feels that he should no longer pay. He even made the mistake of going over time for free and has now just compensated me for back time. However he has stated he will no longer come back to the site because he just doesn't like fighting for my attention.

He does seem like a great decent looking guy but I can't rely on one man's support when I can have several men putting into the pot. That's what these guys don't seem to realize. I think he's cool, but why did he come on a site and then wanted to demand to take me off it. It's pretty selfish unless he has $500-1000 to give everyday. Then sure I can take off of the site and just enjoy his company for hours by phone and by cam.

Another guy is doing the same. He keeps telling me to call him. This I will never do. Another gent is also telling me to call him if I just want to talk, but has a umm fiance? It's selfishness that makes these guys think that they have somehow paid to own me. They no longer just want to take the time they have paid for and leave it at that. Even the older gent paid for a 40 minute call and then decided to take 66 minutes instead. I had to keep saying umm time is up. I need to go.

One guy is very well to do and keeps asking me to fly out and meet him yet spends most of his time telling me how much HOTTIE tail he gets. He's rude , demanding and needs attention like that of a 12year old. Now why would I meet a guy regardless of what he has that apparently buys women, yet turns around and says: all this girl does is call me for my money. Hmm umm yes you're telling every girl how much you're worth and you think that's going to bring you a hot girl that's going to fall in love? His attitude is horrible at best and he's not attractive visually to be quite honest. He's obviously alittle bitter that girls don't just want him for his looks yet he's somewhere between 250-300 lbs and doesn't date girls over a size 4? In my humble opinon this guy treats and girl that will lay with him like shit! Ok I'm going to be blunt. He's ugly as hell. But his family is worth over 100million I think. He is the guy that will treat most women like crap once he has them. For he's told me the things he's done for the girls that didn't give him the time of day vs the girls that actually bent over for him.

He has no respect for anything he can get for cheap, which is how alot of men are hot wired.

So what I'm hearing is that it's not even about the extra gift she wanted. It's more about you wanting to no longer give and yet keep her as that arm candy friend. Many of the guys want to be on the "inside" with any girl that gets scores of men throwing themselves at her. It's a notch on his belt even if he doesn't sleep with her. Most people would automatically assume that they are together in one way or another.

I would also have to state that I was just really"arm candy" for one boyfriend of mine. He would hit the roof if I was late to an event, or if I couldn't make it at all. When I got there I realized I was just watching other people have conversations and thought wtf am I doing here? I'm bored out of my mind and I really want to take these shoes off and curl up to a movie. But I was going to be supported to my bf and be that "it" girl for him, yet I wasn't really getting much from him at all. He just didn't really reciprocate that support, be it with school, funding, respect. So I dropped him. But I realized that all of his girlfriends were there for what he wanted others to see. The big man on town...ohh look at what he has. Blah..

Ok actually he was very hot too so yes I like him on my arm :) hehe:) sorry forgot to point that out.

But now after reading some of your later posts I see that yes you want much more and you don't want to pay for her time any longer. It's time your paying for , not the girl itself. I think when you look at it from that perspective you'll be alittle more understanding. It's her time away from making money elsewhere.

It's like someone asking you to take a vacation when you have bills to pay. It's not cost effective unless they are compensating you for that time so you don't loose out on income potential.

cherryblossomsinspring
03-14-2011, 01:01 PM
First of all, there is nothing wrong with your arrangement - as long as you get your money's worth (i.e., sex - lots of it). Computers are very cheap nowadays, so, if you can negotiate a few night-long sexual sessions for a $600 computer, you've done well...

Look at Yoda, he relies on P4P for female companionship and seems much happier than the average guy in a "free sex" relationship.

To some extent - EVERY woman is going to care about what you have in your pockets (specially, if you're over 25). I'm sure you're looking for a young gorgeous woman with awesome T & A. The better looking she is, the more she's going to care about your $$$$ and what you can offer her ... that's just life, my friend. If she's a prize, you can bet that better men than you are chasing after her and willing to spend a lot of money to "win" her affection. You care about her looks, she cares about your pockets (unless you are so extremely handsome that she want to buy you things) -- all is fair in love and war.

If your dancer friend is stunningly beautiful,... then, before dumping her, take her around and use her to meet other prospects. A hot lady by your side has a way of making you look ten times as attractive as you really are. She can be your "wingwoman". Then, after she's served this purpose, do what you must.

This is all too true. I would also like to add that men weren't worried about looks and wants in my hip huggers then I wouldn't be worried about what's in their pockets. The point goes that men have created this situation. Men value anything sexy and or sexual even if it's so it turns on other men. Since men have created this desperate need for "it" they have created a market for "it".

I would also like to add that the guys that spent the most money in privates with me were also the best looking and easiest to get along with. They also were the most respectful and didn't push really for clothing removal.

lemiwinks31
03-14-2011, 01:36 PM
But I guess you feel that you can speak for EVERY woman out there, eh? /:O



Well...he has already mastered 'speaking for the entire male population'....he needed a new challenge.

it wont be long before we hear from him: "Well, all wildebeasts prefer their lady wildebeasts to be clean shaven....even if they dont admit it to themselves"

lemiwinks31
03-14-2011, 01:45 PM
Wanted friendship but not going to happen.

Why do I have to keep paying for it? When will it stop? Genuine frienship is not based on money. Friends dont ask friends to pay for things like that. Thats not TRUE friendship.

There is no problem anymore, problem is already solved. Its time to move on, thats it.


So maybe paying someone a lot of money to spend time with you is not a good way to start a genuine friendship?

jack0177057
03-14-2011, 02:46 PM
oh REALLY?

EVERY woman, huh?


I for one don't give a crap about what any man has in his pockets - figuratively or literally. And I'd guess that the rest of the gay female population feels the same way - not to mention all of the strong, doing-damn-well-on-their-own-thank-you-very-much straight ladies out there in the world. And no - not even to some extent.


But I guess you feel that you can speak for EVERY woman out there, eh? /:O

You're right, I did overgeneralize...

Correction: "To some extent - 99.9999% of (highly prized) women are going to care about what you have in your pockets (specially, if you're over 25)."

lemiwinks31
03-14-2011, 03:08 PM
You're right, I did overgeneralize...

Correction: "To some extent - 99.9999% of (highly prized) women are going to care about what you have in your pockets (specially, if you're over 25)."


"highly prized" by who? Let me guess.......all men?

MarvelGirl
03-14-2011, 03:10 PM
So maybe paying someone a lot of money to spend time with you is not a good way to start a genuine friendship?

YES! DUR DUR DUR i PAY YOU BE MY FRIEND? DUR DUR DUR

yoda57us
03-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Look at Yoda, he relies on P4P for female companionship and seems much happier than the average guy in a "free sex" relationship.

Dude, I enjoy beautiful women and I like being able to scratch the itch without having to be in a relationship to do it. It works for me right now but I also civvie date as well. I wouldn't be recommending it as a life style choice to anyone else. I stayed in a BS marriage for 27 years and decided when I got out that, at least for the short term, I wasn't interested in being involved. Again, not eh best advice to give most people, especially if they are younger.


To some extent - EVERY woman is going to care about what you have in your pockets (specially, if you're over 25).


That's BS jack especially as women get older. There are plenty of independent and successful women who just want someone to share some good times with.

jack0177057
03-14-2011, 03:45 PM
"highly prized" by who? Let me guess.......all men?

Not ALL, just 99.9999% of men...

I have yet to meet a single straight guy who disagrees that the following women are beautiful:

Megan Fox
Eva Mendes
Shakira
Mila Kunis
Natalie Portman
Angelina Jolie (in her prime)
Christy Brinkley (in her prime)

If looks were so subjective, Playboy, Penthouse, and Sport Illustrated (Swimsuit edition) wouldn't make much money selling their magazines. Have you ever seen an "ugly" girl (to your subjective tastes) in these magazines?

chrischris
03-14-2011, 03:53 PM
Man hasn't this thread took a turn for the worst haha

How about we just all get along and have dinner on me ;)

jack0177057
03-14-2011, 03:57 PM
That's BS jack especially as women get older. There are plenty of independent and successful women who just want someone to share some good times with.

I didn't say all women are gold-diggers, I said the highly-prized young hotties "care about" your financial situation. "To some extent" means with varying degrees - some are gold-digger, others just want to be in a good financial position, and others don't want to end up stripping to support loser BFs. They are sought after by wealthy men, so they know they're worth in society. Why settle for less than handsome + wealthy?

I assume we're talking about beautiful women... I'm going to offend some more, by making another shocking generalization - men who go to SCs tend to like beautiful and young (18 - 35) women... If you prefer average looking and older, you don't go to the SC, you go.... anywhere else and don't have to pay to chat with them.

Also, being beautiful is expensive - cosmetics, lotions, facials, gym membership, shoes & clothes, hair salon, pedicure and manicure, spa treatments, etc... If you want a beautiful companion, you need to have the dough to keep her looking beautiful.

safado
03-14-2011, 04:08 PM
Not ALL, just 99.9999% of men...

I have yet to meet a single straight guy who disagrees that the following women are beautiful:

Megan Fox
Eva Mendes
Shakira
Mila Kunis
Natalie Portman
Angelina Jolie (in her prime)
Christy Brinkley (in her prime)

If looks were so subjective, Playboy, Penthouse, and Sport Illustrated (Swimsuit edition) wouldn't make much money selling their magazines. Have you ever seen an "ugly" girl (to your subjective tastes) in these magazines?

What about guys who only like fat women? 0.0001% of the male population of the U.S. between 15 and 64 (104,411,352 men source: CIA world fact book) is 104 males, I am sure that there are at least 105 guys in the U.S. who would not like the women you named because they only like fatties. FYI, I am not one of the guys who like fatties.

bem401
03-14-2011, 04:18 PM
I didn't say all women are gold-diggers, I said the highly-prized young hotties "care about" your financial situation. "To some extent" means with varying degrees - some are gold-digger, others just want to be in a good financial position, and others don't want to end up stripping to support loser BFs. They are sough after by wealthy men, so they know they're worth in society.

I assume we're talking about beautiful women... I'm going to offend some more, by making another shocking generalization - men who go to SCs tend to like beautiful and young (18 - 35) women...

If you prefer average looking and older, you don't go to the SC, you go.... anywhere else.

Also, being beautiful is expensive - cosmetics, lotions, facials, gym membership, shoes & clothes, hair salon, pedicure and manicure, spa treatments, etc... If you want a beautiful companion, you need to have the dough to keep her looking beautiful.

I think you're stereotyping here big-time, Jack. While what you say may be nearly spot-on when talking about the dancer mindset at work, the reality is many of them live their personal lives as if they were anything but a dancer. In the club, its all about getting what they can from the men. For OTC stuff with customers, I assume it is not much different. In RL though, they seem to be the opposite side of the coin as far as I can tell. They successfully distance themselves from their club persona so well, very few would think they dance for a living.

rickdugan
03-14-2011, 04:30 PM
Majority if not all the guys would never do what I did because of how stupid it is to just pay someone to go to dinner with you. But I did like her as a person and was hoping that she would have understand that but I guess not. Her mind is in another world right now and cant have the real emotions as a normal person would. Sometimes in life no matter how much you try or how much money you have you CANT get what you want.

Bullshit. She is human and can have emotions like anyone else. Hell, for all you know she has a boyfriend giving her a good ride even as we speak. :D

She...just...does...not...like...you. And she NEVER will.

Cowboy up for fuck sake.

yoda57us
03-14-2011, 05:27 PM
Also, being beautiful is expensive - cosmetics, lotions, facials, gym membership, shoes & clothes, hair salon, pedicure and manicure, spa treatments, etc... If you want a beautiful companion, you need to have the dough to keep her looking beautiful.

When do you give them the money for hair and make-up jack? Before or after you club them over the head and drag them back to your cave?

Casual Observer
03-14-2011, 06:43 PM
Majority if not all the guys would never do what I did because of how stupid it is to just pay someone to go to dinner with you. But I did like her as a person and was hoping that she would have understand that but I guess not. Her mind is in another world right now and cant have the real emotions as a normal person would. Sometimes in life no matter how much you try or how much money you have you CANT get what you want.

You're not separating services provided from sentiments shared--a critical distinction.

The premise of your relationship began as a professional one, not a personal one. And there's nothing wrong with that. And it must be said, it's entirely possible (and preferrable) to enjoy time you spend with a professional sex worker at a personal level. My regular road girl in Michigan is a genuine pleasure to be with, naked on my lap or not. And she doesn't suffer too badly in my presence either. But neither of us have any delusions or unrealistic expectations about our arrangement/relationship, and that's important to establish in the beginning. You didn't do that--admittedly out of ignorance. Live and learn.

If you're going to club with strippers, you need to learn roles and expectations for you and the dancers.

KS_Stevia
03-14-2011, 06:53 PM
So my thoughts might be a little different than yours since I did see her outside and seen her many times OTC. So far in these responses theres not that many girls to say they met their customers OTC for paid lunch countless times. If they did I'd like to know what happened in the end of that "relationship".
.

There are so many situations, its not just black and white. Some girls meet guys as an OTC non-sexual escort. For instance, I've also been paid to go out with tourists in town for events to "show them a night on the town." This isn't so rare but most strippers won't admit it because there is a level of risk PLUS its not something that she will do w any guy. There has to be a good vibe and the money has to be right.

Sometimes people just get along in a friendly way. I've had custies I really like be invited to post-work breakfast w the girls or just w me. Do they spend in the club yes? Do they have to buy all of us breakfast or pay an extra $500 to see us w stale makeup smearing down our faces? No, hehe. But there has to be some kind of good vibes, trust, friendship, etc. He has to never whine about dating me or trying to save me or EVER try to stick fingers in holes, etc. I've even taken regs out to dinner my treat, for being a great. Its the same in any business of sales.

Then there is the guy you meet ITC who is friends with your mutual friends and maybe you meet up w him and other socially, but you might meet first for a drink or even carpool.

Of course, there is paid OTC with sexual acts, pretty much prostitution, which is fine except so many custies expect that to be the norm for strippers.

There is the custy you meet and dance for that you truly have an attraction and connection with. NOT A SINGLE STRIPPER EVER EVER will ask for money to hang out with a guy she wants to date and or fuck. She will appreciate and happily sell dances, accept dinners and gifts, etc...but she won't ask you for a sum of cash to hang out. That's sugar daddy territory.




That's BS jack especially as women get older. There are plenty of independent and successful women who just want someone to share some good times with.

Thank you yoda. But goddam I wish I was more of a gold digger sometimes, lol


Not ALL, just 99.9999% of men...

I have yet to meet a single straight guy who disagrees that the following women are beautiful:

Megan Fox
Eva Mendes
Shakira
Mila Kunis
Natalie Portman
Angelina Jolie (in her prime)
Christy Brinkley (in her prime)

If looks were so subjective, Playboy, Penthouse, and Sport Illustrated (Swimsuit edition) wouldn't make much money selling their magazines. Have you ever seen an "ugly" girl (to your subjective tastes) in these magazines?

Do you really think this chick is as hot as any of the above ladies? Those are world famous celebrities. What percent of the population do they really represent?


Bullshit. She is human and can have emotions like anyone else. Hell, for all you know she has a boyfriend giving her a good ride even as we speak. :D

She...just...does...not...like...you. And she NEVER will.

Cowboy up for fuck sake.

Put your big boy panties on ! ;)

Jessie_tinydancer
03-15-2011, 12:15 AM
Wow this thread has a lot of long posts so Ill admit I only skimmed, but here is some input from my experience...

1) Ive had several customers who have spent $1K in the club on me in one night. Some even regular. As do other girls I work with. At my club its easy to see because everything goes through reception. You sound like a decent guy but sorry she can find another guy like you, just like you can find another girl like her.

2) $500 is my minimum ask for a dinner date which I also do as much as possible and do not offer any other service unless it was a LD with the same rules as a club. I have got $1K several times though for this same situation - again this is not some amazing deal she is getting. Yes, Im sure she appreciates the income and OTC for some of us who dont mind emotions getting involved is easier than in the club. But for some girls its harder.

3) How is gifts any different than cash? Im not sure why that pissed you off. She prob just thinks you are a nice guy who enjoys spoiling so she's dropped a hint. Im sure you could ignore them or you could do as the others suggested and asked for whatever it is you want in return.

4) This might be very very rare, but it is possible that she genuinely likes you. I have several customers who I would hang out with for free but I would never tell them that. Why? Cause I have bills to pay and if someone is going to offer me an opportunity in this life, I will take it. Why would I allow myself to struggle when it can be a win-win situation for me. I do think if she wanted sex though she probably would have offered it as part of your arrangement.

5) Strippers are not all mind-fucking, money grubbing whores. We do have emotions and feelings too. OTC can be very confusing and I personally do not think Im using my customers for money. I see it as they have money to spend and enjoy sharing it with me because it makes life easier for me. I hope that I give them whatever it is they are looking for emotionally in return.

Hopper
03-15-2011, 03:45 AM
oh REALLY?

EVERY woman, huh?


I for one don't give a crap about what any man has in his pockets - figuratively or literally. And I'd guess that the rest of the gay female population feels the same way - not to mention all of the strong, doing-damn-well-on-their-own-thank-you-very-much straight ladies out there in the world. And no - not even to some extent.


But I guess you feel that you can speak for EVERY woman out there, eh? /:O

In the context of Jack's comment, "every woman" should be taken to mean "every woman chrischris would like to date and who might be interested in him". Since, as you noted yourself, lesbians would probably not be sexually interested in chrischris (a male), "every woman" in that context quite naturally does exclude lesbians.

Hopper
03-15-2011, 03:57 AM
This is all too true. I would also like to add that men weren't worried about looks and wants in my hip huggers then I wouldn't be worried about what's in their pockets. The point goes that men have created this situation. Men value anything sexy and or sexual even if it's so it turns on other men. Since men have created this desperate need for "it" they have created a market for "it".

Men didn't create the need or market for "it", they were born with the need. If women weren't interested in money, or security, men would not have to buy "it" with money.

Hopper
03-15-2011, 04:03 AM
"highly prized" by who? Let me guess.......all men?

No, just the men who highly prize them.

Hopper
03-15-2011, 04:06 AM
Man hasn't this thread took a turn for the worst haha

How about we just all get along and have dinner on me ;)

The way it's going here, dinner literally would be on you.

mediocrity
03-15-2011, 04:34 AM
You're right, I did overgeneralize...

Correction: "To some extent - 99.9999% of (highly prized) women are going to care about what you have in your pockets (specially, if you're over 25)."

Absolutely- if they don't love you.

Hopper
03-15-2011, 04:43 AM
Not ALL, just 99.9999% of men...

I have yet to meet a single straight guy who disagrees that the following women are beautiful:

Megan Fox
Eva Mendes
Shakira
Mila Kunis
Natalie Portman
Angelina Jolie (in her prime)
Christy Brinkley (in her prime)

If looks were so subjective, Playboy, Penthouse, and Sport Illustrated (Swimsuit edition) wouldn't make much money selling their magazines. Have you ever seen an "ugly" girl (to your subjective tastes) in these magazines?

Those girls aren't the only types men like and women with their physical characteristics are not all automatically very attractive. You should change your use of "highly prized" to mean which girls any given individual man would highly prize. The only girl on that list who could pry my money away from me would be Natalie.

Jessie_tinydancer
03-15-2011, 04:47 AM
^dude... c'mon man really? You'd turn down the rest of the list? Puuuuhleaaaaasee. Im a woman and all of those chicks could probably drain my bank account if they wanted to. You must have some super human nerd-only loving penis. Ya I consider Nat a nerd.. but still hot.

yoda57us
03-15-2011, 04:47 AM
This might be very very rare, but it is possible that she genuinely likes you. I have several customers who I would hang out with for free but I would never tell them that. Why? Cause I have bills to pay and if someone is going to offer me an opportunity in this life, I will take it. Why would I allow myself to struggle when it can be a win-win situation for me. I do think if she wanted sex though she probably would have offered it as part of your arrangement.



Jessie, your entire post was dead on but this paragraph is solid gold. Any guy who doesn't understand this is destined to be left scratching his head and whining on strip club message boards...

Hopper
03-15-2011, 05:20 AM
^dude... c'mon man really? You'd turn down the rest of the list? Puuuuhleaaaaasee. Im a woman and all of those chicks could probably drain my bank account if they wanted to. You must have some super human nerd-only loving penis. Ya I consider Nat a nerd.. but still hot.

Those girls wouldn't look half as attractive at home in their gardening clothes as they do in their photos. But even if they did, there is more to attractiveness than physical measurements and not all girls of their physical type have it. Some do, some don't; and plenty of girls of other physical type have it too.

yoda57us
03-15-2011, 06:27 AM
Megan Fox
Eva Mendes
Shakira
Mila Kunis
Natalie Portman
Angelina Jolie (in her prime)
Christy Brinkley (in her prime)


Well, I would do em' all, Shakira twice, but I don't see what this has to do with the topic...

jack0177057
03-15-2011, 07:52 AM
When do you give them the money for hair and make-up jack? Before or after you club them over the head and drag them back to your cave?

I don't drag them to my cave, I pick them up... I'm a gentleman. :D


Do you really think this chick is as hot as any of the above ladies? Those are world famous celebrities. What percent of the population do they really represent?

This list was in reply to the argument that attractiveness is subjective. Maybe you can say that about homely to moderately attractive girls (4s - 7s), but women of stunning beauty (8s - 10s) will be universally recognized as such. These are the women (not all of them, but the ones that learned early on to bank on their looks) that appear on magazine covers, blockbuster movies, music videos, high-quality porn, upscale SCs, etc. They know that beauty is prized in our society and that they have a free ticket to a pampered lifestyle (at least until their looks begin to fade).

The girl that the OP mentions is not on this upper tier - she might be a few rungs lower, but she is beautiful and smart enough to know that she can bank on her "prizeability". And why not?

I don't take issue with a beautiful woman for wanting a man who can provide her with comforts (or at least provide his fair share of the expenses). She is providing him with highly-prized beauty, so he should be able to reciprocate with highly-prized comforts... Seems only fair... And like I mentioned before, she invests a lot of time and money into being beautiful... What,... she should be willing to settle for a unmotivated downwardly-mobile slacker with no promising career?.... to prove to the world that she has a "pure heart" and is not a gold-digger?


Well, I would do em' all, Shakira twice, but I don't see what this has to do with the topic...

The argument raised is that "beauty" is subjective... To some extent, this may be true, but studies show that there are scientific bases for why certain people are (not absolutely, but generally) considered beautiful.

There are stunningly beautiful women that turn heads when they walk - All straight male and lesbian female heads turn when she walks past them -- Those are the women I am talking about. You want one of them, you must be good-looking (or have an extremely charming personality, celebrity status, etc.) AND you must have a decent pocket.

Hopper
03-15-2011, 08:10 AM
Also, being beautiful is expensive - cosmetics, lotions, facials, gym membership, shoes & clothes, hair salon, pedicure and manicure, spa treatments, etc... If you want a beautiful companion, you need to have the dough to keep her looking beautiful.

I've met many women who were beautiful without any of that. (Most of them were wearing clothes and shoes, but not expensive ones.)

yoda57us
03-15-2011, 08:53 AM
There are stunningly beautiful women that turn heads when they walk - All straight male and lesbian female heads turn when she walks past them -- Those are the women I am talking about. You want one of them, you must be good-looking (or have an extremely charming personality, celebrity status, etc.) AND you must have a decent pocket.

There is where you lose me jack. If you are talking about being with a celebrity you might have a point but beauty and celebrity are two different things. Quite frankly, I've been with many women, both for free and for around $300 an hour who were as beautiful or more beautiful than the ladies on your list...

Of course, beauty is subjective and I'm a very charming guy...