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TouringGirlfriend
04-19-2011, 08:56 PM
But at the kind of per hour prices being discussed in that thread - surely with the right advertising a very comfortable living could be made? 300-500$ an hour etc ?!

I mean - I was shocked when I read the thread last week , because up until then I hadn't thought it was possible .....

And then I stumble on this thread where everyones talking like it's a fantasy idea.

Ukmissy, I even told you that my date did not happen. I also posted about it here on sw in three different threads how the bloke cancelled. Earlier today I met a guy from whatsyourprice and I will keep the details of that meeting to myself. Wasn't it another girl that said social escorting can be done in vegas that she got paid in the thousands just for gambling? We never said it was not possible. We are pretty much trying to say it's YMMV and don't count on it as steady income.

There is a reason why there aren't many HOW-TOs for social escorting. However, google "Become an escort" and you'll see all the tutorials you get. I even told the girl to go for it but get ready for disappointment.

lilmisssunshine
04-19-2011, 08:58 PM
Midnight - I have quite a bit of experience escorting and am quite successful.

Your thread title - Success as an ESCORT minus the sex

Thus my response.

:)

cherryblossomsinspring
04-19-2011, 09:03 PM
I was following that thread religiously without even posting *TG* you had me going! I was so excited to read your play by play . Ok yes that guy bailed at the last minute with the bs my mother's sick routine. That was a pretty pathetic excuse. There will always be guys that fall out of the rankings but I think that site may yield some promising results. I read some of the hateful reviews from other women on the site and thought hmm ok. Some women kept talking about how they are just horny and want to have sex for free and also talked about being "cougars" blah. I felt those were some trolls in the chatroom sense and visually as well. They ended up derailing the whole comments section in the post which was apparently their intention in the first place. Even a guy kept posting something about some bar where 85% of men get laid by cougars or some crap. I was like wow is this the bar owner or a pissed off man that would never pay for non sexual date? I also liked their video because any attractive woman that's signed up for an internet dating site has gone through the horrible task of sifting through hundreds of garbage messages. If the guy was unattractive and left some uber long message , he did usually get deleted.

But that site seems like an option for the typical undesirable man visually , but perhaps has more to offer in "other" areas. Also obviously after clist got a beating I'm pretty sure many men would sign up here. A guy that is broke or cheap is not going to be able to do much with this site. She may meet him but if he has no money then she's walking away. I think the only problem with this is that you have to meet him to get your money and that could be a waste of gas , time and energy especially if he's either a no show, poor or demanding sex when you get there. I liked the idea of 50% upfront and 50% at the end of the date. So if if he's a complete ass he can walk out with maybe $250 instead of the $500. That would actually be pretty ok.

TouringGirlfriend
04-19-2011, 09:05 PM
I'm pretty sure that there are men that will pay $500 just for companionship. After my luck with whatsyourprice, I know those men are not in the Carolinas.

Eric Stoner
04-20-2011, 08:20 AM
First of all, an apology to anyone who misunderstood anything I posted on this subject. If I did not make myself sufficiently clear, I am sorry.
Second, there was never the slightest intention to denigrate anyone or anything they choose to do or try to do.

I'm going to try this one last time : It's a BIG world out there and thus there are numerous ways to separate men from their money: Table dances, lap-dances , VIP rooms all the way to the guys willing to pay dancers just to sit and talk to them. With or without "extras". I have been a consistent supporter of capitalism and free enterprise and thus anything a gal does to make a living is pretty much O.K. by me.

As I have said, we are NOT discussing Sugar Daddy- Sugar Baby relationships. There are lots of threads on it here and plenty of sites devoted to it. Again, if a gal is a successful Sugar Baby she has my full support and respect. That includes all the variants and related activities. All I say and have ever said is : "Go For It ! Best of luck ! Buona fortuna !" OK so far ?

The original question concerned E S C O R T I N G which in 2011 almost always involves sex for money in some form or another. Almost always. Yes it is P O S S I B L E to be a companion for hire, to sell time and companionship without providing sex. There have even been an agency or two that I have heard of over the years that T R I E D to do exactly that. Just provide companions to upper income guys. ALL are out of business. They either did not get enough business or had no choice but to go down the same road as all the other agencies and provide escorts for sex.

Just because something is possible does not mean it is likely. A good analogy is a college football player or basketball player not just making it to the NFL or NBA but also making the Pro-Bowl or All Star Game. Possible but not very likely. And those who DO make it to ALL-STAR
status are a cut well above their peers. Just like ultra high end escorts. Do the math and then figure out the probabilities for yourself. That way you won't have to take my word for it or anything else.

When I said that I had a "bias" against this notion it may have been a poor choice of word on my part. What I was trying to convey were my admitted twin biases against both ignorance and wishful thinking. Because if you are actually familiar with the real world of escorting then "escorting without sex" is facially a classic oxymoron. I also admit that I am troubled every time I read a post from some ignorant youngster on here who seriously thinks that such a thing is a sensible and realistic career choice . Do a search and read them for yourselves. If just one of them is caused to stop and think and then start READING and educating herself about the real world of escorting, then it's worth any negativity directed my way. Call me a worrywart but I just have this vision of some starry eyed young woman who barely finished high school falling into the clutches of an agency owner who sells her a bill of goods about what escorting is. I am sure that has happened. A LOT !

Just as luck often plays a role in someone making it to the Pro-Bowl or All Star Game, I would argue it is almost an essential element in anyone actually being successful as a non-sexual escort. Yes, research, hard work, shrewd marketing etc. might, repeat MIGHT , make it possible for someone to pull it off and make a consistent living. I still say luck would almost have to be a big part of that equation too just because of the odds involved. I already broke down the rough numbers involved comparing the potential customer base and the potential number of providers. Can anyone seriously say that those kind of odds are not daunting, to say the least ? !

Just the construction of a marketing plan and means of advertising to get potential customers alone is so chock full of difficulties as to make getting something like this off the ground very difficult if not impossible. Where would you advertise something like this ? On TER ? Eros ?
City-Vibe ? The Village Voice ? The Personals in your local paper ? The only thing that even makes sense would be one of the Sugar Daddy sites. This is why I repeat that luck is an essential element. And you're just as likely to hook up with a guy interested in something like this by working at your regular club. Isn't that what the anecdotal posts from some of the ladies ( recounting how they made gobs of money just by hanging out with the right guy) are really telling us ?

nikkidarling
04-20-2011, 08:46 AM
We never said it did not happen. We said one should not rely on it for income. You know how my first date canceled and gave me bullshit excuse. We're pretty much trying to say that the OP should do something else for steady income because social escorting will not be it.

Good post. I see these kinds of threads pop up on this site and others every few months. I mean it's a good idea in theory, but it's a pretty unrealistic business model for making consistent income. I have worked with women who have done social escorting in Vegas (as some others mentioned upthread) but the opportunities are too few and between.

The majority of men who hire escorts are married so they can't risk being caught gallivanting around the city with some young pretty thing on their arm. There's a reason 99% of escorting dates usually happen in hotel rooms and incall houses, behind closed doors.

lagirl
04-22-2011, 03:21 AM
i work in vegas quite often and have never been asked to go out gambling for pay. i also hear its apparantly illegal to accept such an offer and it could land you in jail? anyway how do you girls find guys who will want you to gamble for pay? do you just hang around dressed skanky at the casinos or do you meet them at the strip club?

TouringGirlfriend
04-22-2011, 03:32 AM
Ok if there is all this money in vegas for social escorting (non sexual escorting), Why don't we all move to Vegas and go and social escort ourselves?? One girl said she made thousands just sitting and chatting. Ummm If I could make such my ass would be in Vegas!

ukmissy
04-22-2011, 05:51 AM
i work in vegas quite often and have never been asked to go out gambling for pay. i also hear its apparantly illegal to accept such an offer and it could land you in jail? anyway how do you girls find guys who will want you to gamble for pay? do you just hang around dressed skanky at the casinos or do you meet them at the strip club?

and escorting WITH sex isn't ? :-)

TouringGirlfriend
04-22-2011, 05:57 AM
and escorting WITH sex isn't ? :-)

Exactly.

BlkSharpie
04-22-2011, 06:19 AM
and escorting WITH sex isn't ? :-)

:D Still get a kick out of a comment I read on another forum about escorts who dont see black men...one who wanted to point out how thats not a good idea because racial discrimination is illegal ::):D

Eric Stoner
04-22-2011, 07:18 AM
i work in vegas quite often and have never been asked to go out gambling for pay. i also hear its apparantly illegal to accept such an offer and it could land you in jail? anyway how do you girls find guys who will want you to gamble for pay? do you just hang around dressed skanky at the casinos or do you meet them at the strip club?

It is ? What is illegal about it ? Gambling is legal in Vegas. So is being paid to just hang out with someone afaik.

From what has been posted, the guys willing to pay for a gambling companion hooked up with the lucky gal at the club where she was dancing.

TouringGirlfriend
04-22-2011, 07:46 AM
It is ? What is illegal about it ? Gambling is legal in Vegas. So is being paid to just hang out with someone afaik.

From what has been posted, the guys willing to pay for a gambling companion hooked up with the lucky gal at the club where she was dancing.

Some people just don't know what they're talking about, Eric. That's what it comes down to. I, too, thought it was a ridiculous comment but didn't want to say anything.

I guess we'll have to break it down again.

Escorting is legal
Gambling in Vegas is legal
Prostitution is illegal unless you're working at one of the brothels.

*sigh*

jack0177057
04-22-2011, 08:14 AM
I'm pretty sure that there are men that will pay $500 just for companionship. After my luck with whatsyourprice, I know those men are not in the Carolinas.

I'm just speculating here, but I can only think of two situations that would make a man want to spend that much without a "happy ending":

(1) Important business/social event and lonely guy needs to make a great impression with his colleagues. You are ultra attractive, smart, sophisticated and glamorous. He introduces you to everyone as his girlfriend.

(2) You are ultra hot and glamorous and he is taking you out to trendy clubs to meet other beautiful women. Your job is basically to help him pick up other women, bring them back to his place and get laid. They do this at: http://www.wingwomen.com/

TouringGirlfriend
04-22-2011, 08:18 AM
I'm just speculating here, but I can only think of two situations that would make a man want to spend that much without a "happy ending":

(1) Important business/social event and lonely guy needs to make a great impression with his colleagues. You are ultra attractive, smart, sophisticated and glamorous. He introduces you to everyone as his girlfriend.

(2) You are ultra hot and glamorous and he is taking you out to trendy clubs to meet other beautiful women. Your job is basically to help him pick up other women, bring them back to his place and get laid. They do this at:

Well... my point was that it happens. When I danced, I had guys that paid me just to sit with them. That is the only experience I have with that. Am I going to create a website saying "Pay me just to sit and talk to you"? No. It would be a major fail. This is something you can do on the side .. not for steady income. Thanks for the link btw. I'm going to apply to be a wingwomen.. LMAO.

BlkSharpie
04-22-2011, 08:55 AM
Ive heard of that site.... While looking at job ads in Craigs I came across some listings from them looking for women to apply. Interesting concept I have to say, and Ill bet it does do well. Especially around these parts where we have a lot of intl travelers either for biz or wanting to hit up south beach and want a woman to hang out with for the night. It happens..

jack0177057
04-22-2011, 10:12 AM
^ Yeah, the pick up guru/date coach industry is very big and profitable.

A wealthy guy comes to town on a business trip. He wants to go out and meet beautiful women. The easy choices are (1) strip club or (2) escort (all inclusive package).

If he's alone, going to a bar/nigh club is not an attractive option, unless he is extremely handsome and/or a "natural" at talking to women. He doesn't know the local culture and probably feels too much anxiety about approaching women. Also, he can't brag about being wealthy or his business, because he'll come off as "try-hard" and a creepy braggart.

The right "wing-woman" will change that and make the bar/night club the best of all three options. She will do all the approaching, make friends, invite them to the table and talk flatteringly about the guy, without him seeming "try-hard" or like a braggart. He gets to meet many beautiful women, and maybe take one home, without paying for sex.

I wonder how this "wing-woman" concept could apply in a strip-club, i.e., a current dancer or former dancer acts as a wing-woman to help a guy pickup a dancer at the club.

lilmisssunshine
04-22-2011, 12:51 PM
Yay! I wanna be a wingwoman! I am gonna apply!

I have had many guys pay me to sit and chat with them when I was dancing or escorting.

However, many of the guys who just wanna talk when escorting were typically doing blow.

But the thing is, I met these guys through the working the clubs and escorting, I mean they found me through that type of marketing. So if guys are looking for someone to talk to and they go thru these particular venues of marketing, I really don't know anyone would be able to market to them otherwise. It seems to me they like to know that other services are available and on the menu when they are paying.

And most of them had no idea that they wanted to talk to me when they came into the club or booked call, they just met me and we hit it off. I doubt any of them started off their night thinking, "I just want someone to talk to, where can I pay a girl for that?"

lagirl
04-22-2011, 02:52 PM
wtf. i never said that prostitution isnt illegal. i simply said that i heard its so easy to get arrested in vegas that even just agreeing to gamble for pay could land you in jail. of course i know prostituition is illegal. jesus christ.
in almost every club ive worked at they make me sign a form that says i can get arrested for saying 'you can touch my boobs for a tip' as far as i know thats not illegal but just saying it can apparantly land you in jail even if its not flat out accepting a prostitution solicitation.

lagirl
04-22-2011, 02:53 PM
wow if some guy had his wing woman try to befriend me in an attempt to get in my pants id run far farrrr away. i would be way suspciious of a pretty girl who talks highly of a guy yet isnt dating him. if hes so great, why isnt he your bf?

its sooo easy to get a gf. men have sooo much power in relationships.there are soo many women out there just dying for a commited mongomous relationship

i dont get why any guy would need to resort to this. hed have to be insanely shallow and only be going after barbie dolls in order to want to do something like that or have it work because seriously, any normal sane woman isnt going to fall for it

jack0177057
04-22-2011, 03:42 PM
^ That's like saying - girls have it so easy, all they do is walk into a club wearing something sexy and guys will be hitting on them left and right.

If it were so easy for every guy to meet girls, there wouldn't be so many lonely guys in the SCs and there wouldn't be an adult entertainment industry. (Except for married-sexually-deprived people.)

Most of the "nice" guys have approach anxiety - they cannot walk up to a stunning woman and initiate conversation and any attempt to do will be pathetic.

I have about 9 female cousins and have always had lot of female friends. Being in the company of attractive women has always been a great way to meet more attractive women.

nikkidarling
04-22-2011, 03:49 PM
i work in vegas quite often and have never been asked to go out gambling for pay. i also hear its apparantly illegal to accept such an offer and it could land you in jail? anyway how do you girls find guys who will want you to gamble for pay? do you just hang around dressed skanky at the casinos or do you meet them at the strip club?

The girls I knew who did this were cool with the concierge, usually giving them a generous "kick back" for setting up the dates. I don't know of anyone who tried to solicit business in the casinos. Doing that will get you banned from the strip.

BlkSharpie
04-22-2011, 03:52 PM
If it was sooooo easy to find a gf, match, eharmony, plentyoffish, etc etc wouldnt exist. I know a lot of very good looking guys who are great catches who are single and cannot find the one for them. Why arent I with them? Its a compatibiloity thing...were either in different stages of our lives, want different things out of a relationship, have different values or belief systems...things that dont affect being friends, but would make for a very difficult or flat out wrong relationship. Thats the problem single men and women who seek a relationship face....finding the right person for them.

Feels weird to me to have to explain that LoL

Anyway...its true..when a guy is with a woman, especially a beautiful one, to converse and smile and talk with...it makes him more interesting than the guy who is nervously sitting by himself with no one to talk to. And unfortunately, approaching a girl isnt that easy, I know around these parts (and Ive been guilty of this) a girl will flash a "dont dare come over here" glance...hes knocked down before hes even started. But when a woman is there, hanging talking, strikes up convo with another woman and makes him part of the convo...the guard isnt up. That has happend to me while out with a friend without even meaning to...

ZePeanut
04-22-2011, 03:57 PM
I tried it when I was 19ishfor like...a day. The money was f'reakin awesome. I think I made about 1,700 by the end of my first day. This was in Palm Springs though...and around 6 years ago, so who knows what the business is like now?

I was strictly no sex--but as much as the agency may tell you that, girls are fucking the shit out of these customers. In my first day of work I got:

1. Slapped by my first customer when his time was up and it dawned upon him that I was serious about not screwing him.
2. Pushed up against the wall and choked by some guy who was obviously strung out on something for again, not putting out.
3. The driver asked me how much I charged for a blow job.

I never went back. Great money, but it just wasn't worth it to me anymore.

TouringGirlfriend
04-22-2011, 04:04 PM
Wow I started escorting when I was 19. Even though they said no sex I knew escorts had sex. So I fucked the shit out of my clients and it all worked out for me at the end. It was fun and I'm doing it all over again but indy :D. Fucking is fun........especially when you're getting paid for it.

ZePeanut
04-22-2011, 04:09 PM
Oh, sorry. The moral of that story: Just make sure you have a bouncer/another person with you. People are scary...you never know what they are on.

lilmisssunshine
04-22-2011, 04:16 PM
Ripping off dudes was typical in my younger days before internet and internet review boards.

Not just me, but the business as a whole was full of rip offs.

I worked for places that really did do just lingerie shows and escort services where we really did just do massages or dance. And we charged just like escorts.

And like ZePeanut says, it also was typically for girls to get beat up and was pretty scary when I had to dart around a man and run for the door as soon as he realized I wasn't gonna fuck him. THAT SHIT SUCKED!

It's actually alot easier to just fuck em and get your money. It really is.

TouringGirlfriend
04-22-2011, 04:27 PM
It's actually alot easier to just fuck em and get your money. It really is.

Yup! Less headache too. You leave happy, he leaves happy. He posts a good review that'll make you more money and it's all good.

Not to mention, when you have good reviews/a good reputation, everyone treats you like a celebrity. You end up with a big head convinced you're the best fuck..oooh maybe that was just me. LOLZ

lagirl
04-22-2011, 04:47 PM
correction. girls walk into a club wearing someting sexy and douchebags looking for one night stands will hit them up left and right. finding a guy who is actually looking for a relationship is incredibly rare, especially at a night club...on the other hand, most women would love to be in a relationship. guys on the other hand are so commitment phobic that its near impossible to convince them you're worth giving up other girls for.

yes it might be harder for guys to get HIT ON but its much easier for them to have a relationship because they typically hold all the cards once they do find a girl who is attracted to them.

and as for the dating sites- i am on almost all of them. 90 percent of those guys are looking for casual sex or casual dating with no commitment which is why i rarely log in- it makes me depressed to see how they answer their match questions. just because a guy is on a dating site doesnt mean he is serious minded. if he was serious minded he could find a girlfriend- like that- but the problem is these guys want to have their cake and eat it too. they want a girl they can call up for sex and hang out with, but they dont want to call her their gf, and those girls are hard to find and hence why these guys are on dating sites. most girls dont like being used as sex objects and thats all guys seem to want nowadays.

same with guys in the strip club. i get guys begging me to let me take them out, and then they reveal that they cant do monogomy and want to have multiple girls at once. seriously wtffff. i swear guys truly hold all the power and its so easy for them to enter relationships- they just are so afraid of monogomy they make it unnecessarily hard on themselves.

and i guess im in the minority because if i see a guy with a beautiful woman it would be a huge turn off, and makes h8im look like a womanizing jerk. id much rather approach a guy who is hanging out with a large mixed group or with a guy friend or even on his own, than one who is hanging out with a beautiful woman, especially one of the "wing woman" standards which is apparantly fake titted and overall just fake looking.

"a girl will flash a "dont dare come over here" glance...hes knocked down before hes even started"
yes i do this often- when the guy looks like a douchebag. if a guy doesnt want this he should stop being a douchebag. stop wearing ed hardy. stop wearing a basebal cap. get some decent style, god even dressing like a nerd makes you more approachable than some of the crap men wear nowadays. id much rather be approached by a guy in a nerdy shirt like this

than the glittered up affliction crap that men wear nowadays. if girls are giving you mean stares then there is something wrong with your presentation and your targets. if you dress like a douchebag dont approach a girl next door- approach a slutty looking chick who will respond well to your douchy looks. if you dress like a gangsta dont approach the preppy looking girl. if you wear 5 gallons of jel in your hair, dont approach the hippy girl who uses baking soda and vinager for her hair care routine

it seriously shouldnt be that hard to know what type of people will respond well to you and how to present yourself in a way that wont turn off the people you want to meet but guys just seem clueless. i have never gotten and will never understand why men think that wearing xxxxl shirts and gold chains is gonna attract any quality women. yet the amount of people who dress like that is astounding. and these are always the guys who arent afraid to hit on girls. seriously i look like a complete ackward dork when i go out in public, complete with glasses and everything yet the ed hardy douches and gangsta wannabes hit on me in huge numbers. its insane. like do they not realize how badly we clash??

jack0177057
04-22-2011, 05:39 PM
correction. girls walk into a club wearing someting sexy and douchebags looking for one night stands will hit them up left and right. finding a guy who is actually looking for a relationship is incredibly rare, especially at a night club...on the other hand, most women would love to be in a relationship. guys on the other hand are so commitment phobic that its near impossible to convince them you're worth giving up other girls for.

That depends on a lot of factors - like where you live, the culture and ethnic make-up of the people, etc. In the big sexy cities like NYC, Miami, LA and Chicago, it may be true that guys just want to enjoy bachelorhood forever. But, that's not true everywhere. I've noticed that people marry young here in Texas (20s) - even people in the big cities like Dallas and Houston.

Also, there are a lot of "nice" guys looking for a relationship, but they're not picked up on the radar of attractive women, except as friends. For every pretty girl that is complaining about there being no good guys willing to commit, there are probably 3-5 "nice" guys that would give up a limb for a LTR with her, but that she has permanently relegated to "just friends" status.

lagirl
04-22-2011, 06:15 PM
people marry young here too! they just dont meet them at nightclubs. they meet them at school or work. and by the time theyre 24 theyre snatched up. the only ones left are douchy casual sex loving pigs. its really annoying for those of us who already graduated or dont have a regular job where we can meet amazing people.

what i find weird is that you say a nice guy isnt picked up on a radar of attractive women. apples to oranges.
nice guys belong with nice girls, not necessarily attractive girls. its this ridiculous sense of entitlement that men have that is another reason why they complain about not being able to find a girl. they want someone who has something that they lack . in this case- physical appeal. if an ugly nice girl wanted a hot guy we would all bitch at her and call her a picky piece of shit, yet its perfectly ok for a nice ugly guy to want a hot girl? come on now.
people need to understand where their limitations are.
its about as ridiculous as a poor girl from the hood wanting a multimillionaire. sorry if thats offensive to anyone but im a firm believer of knowing your type, owning it, and working with what you have.

and trust me i have dated guys who are less attractive than me and even they get freaked out by relationships and dont want to commit. quite frankly it might seem like most unattractive guys would kill to date an attractive girl but its just not the case, especially when the girl is ready for monogomy. so while in theory there are lots of ugly nice guys who want a girl, put them in a situation with an attractive girl who is ready to settle down and they freeze up and find any excuse to leave. then all of a sudden they start talking about how theres more to life than looks

ukmissy
04-22-2011, 07:50 PM
''yes it might be harder for guys to get HIT ON but its much easier for them to have a relationship because they typically hold all the cards once they do find a girl who is attracted to them''

Only speaking from experience, but after ten years in my relationship this year ( which friends on the forum can vouch for ) - we are most definitely equals and respect each other as such!

And if anyone holds an extra card or two - the trousers are most certainly on me ! Don't underestimate the power of a woman - it's the 21st century and women are gaining more power every second !

prettygreeneyes
04-23-2011, 02:17 AM
most women would love to be in a relationship. guys on the other hand are so commitment phobic that its near impossible to convince them you're worth giving up other girls for.

I don't think this is a universal truth, I think it depends on where you live. When I broke up with my ex a couple years ago, I just wanted to play the field for a while and enjoy being single, and pretty much every guy I met was trying to settle down in a serious relationship. That's actually what happened with my current boyfriend, he is the one who insisted that we be exclusive, and I wasn't really wanting a commitment. I don't think it's just me, many of my friends have had boyfriends who were all about moving in together, getting engaged, etc. I am from the Midwest, and I think people feel pressured to get married and start having kids at a young age because that's the social norm here. In bigger cities with more of a clubbing/party culture, people want to stay single and play the field. Those are just my observations - I'm not saying yours are wrong :) But hey, if you're looking for a commitment, move to a small Midwest town, lol.

jack0177057
04-25-2011, 10:22 AM
what i find weird is that you say a nice guy isnt picked up on a radar of attractive women. apples to oranges.
nice guys belong with nice girls, not necessarily attractive girls. its this ridiculous sense of entitlement that men have that is another reason why they complain about not being able to find a girl. they want someone who has something that they lack . in this case- physical appeal. if an ugly nice girl wanted a hot guy we would all bitch at her and call her a picky piece of shit, yet its perfectly ok for a nice ugly guy to want a hot girl? come on now.
people need to understand where their limitations are.

I understand what you are saying - that a "nice guy" cannot expect to date out of his league, just because he is a "nice guy".

However, I've been a shy "nice guy" and I've also been a confident egotistical jerk, and with the same assets, confident egotistical jerk attracted much more interest from the opposite sex.

A woman's psychology relating to mating selection is confused and immature for a very long time (probably until she reaches 30+). (This does not apply to every woman, of course, but many/most of them.) She says and thinks she wants one thing (the stable and sensitive "nice" guy), but she is actually attracted to another (the "bad boy", the "jerk", the "rebel" nonconformist, the "alpha male", etc.).

Personally, I think there is a conflict between prehistoric brain wiring (which draws a woman to a tough untactful selfish caveman-type brute that can protect her from other jerks) and post-modern post-feminism brain wiring (which draws her to the romantic and stable sensitive guy "in touch with his feminine side").

Another theory is that a woman needs stability - i.e., the "nice" guy. But, she is emotionally turned on/challenged by the sponaneity, excitement, danger, charisma, and most of all, the drama of the "bad boy", the "jerk", the "rebel" nonconformist, the "alpha male", etc. Nearly all "chick-flicks" involve a jerk and lots of drama. Granted that the jerk is redeemed or domesticated in the end, but it was his egotistical personality that attracted her in the first place.

Safety and stability is good for her, but it is not exciting - it gets monotonous and boring. This is why many women resolve this conflict by settling down with Mr. Nice Guy, but having an affair with Mr. Interesting Bad Boy.

Men have a similar conflict. Their romantic goal is to meet a "nice" respectable woman (like mom), who they can proudly bring home to their parents and who will make a model mother to their children. But, they digress from this objective every time they meet Ms. Ditsy with Hot Body in Tight Mini-Skirt and Fuck-Me-Heels. The best way for a woman to resolve this conflict (without her husband/BF cheating), is to follow the old saying - a man wants a woman that acts like a virgin in public and like a dirty little slut in the bedroom.

My point - relationships are complicated for both genders - end of story. There are too many needs, wants and fantasies (sometimes in conflict with each other) that need to be understood and satisfied in order to validate your SO and keep him/her happy.

lagirl
04-25-2011, 02:27 PM
if you guys are equal then you are blessed

woman have the power in terms of sex...but in terms of commitment, men hold the power. it is far more natural for a girl to want a relationship than it is for a guy, which is why guys hold the power in this aspect. for example- when two people are dating if the guy says "hey be my gf" the girl will more than likely be flattered and accept it. this isnt true if the girl brings it up and says "hey bey bf". in that case more than likely the guy will freak out and say shes moving too fast. funny how its not too fast to fuck right away, but to say "hey i want u to not fuck anyone but me" is moving too fast.

uggg youre lucky if your experience has been otherwise. i personally dont think i would do well with guys in the midwest because im hispanic, from my experience traveling up there, racism is still pretty common. i notice white girls have a lot easier time getting guys to commit. but for me its like guys look at me and assume im just a raging whore good for just a sex with benefits arrangement. and i dont even dress like a whore. i dress like im 50 and rarely wear makeup. I also think that a lot of guys THINK they want to settle down and are ready for commitment but when they find a girl who actually is enthusiastic about it, they shy away. for some reason it seems like men enjoy being the one who is less liked and feeling like the girl is superior to them. when the girl starts showing too much interest he starts feeling she is inferior to him. which is sad because it means that in order for a girl to marry she has to settle for someone who she doesnt like as much as he likes her.

"However, I've been a shy "nice guy" and I've also been a confident egotistical jerk, and with the same assets, confident egotistical jerk attracted much more interest from the opposite sex."
since when does more= better? sure you might attract MORE girls as a jerk. ...but who are these girls? girls with daddy issues. girls with extreme self esteem issues. girls who are psychotic and thus get off at being treated like a raging whore. guys try to pull the ego card on me while trying to hit on me and i ALWAYS ALWAYS call them out on it. if youre just looking for pussy and dont care about the quality, then by all means, be a jerk, theres never a shortage of girls who like being treated like shit because of unresolved psychological issues. if you want a quality girl who is sane though, you have to be nice. Now a lot of people confuse nice with being a wimp or a pushover. not the same thing...be nice, but dont be a wimp. dont let people walk all over you. if someone rejects you, dont continue to beg them to date you, that shows you have no respect for yourself. too many times do i have guys INSIST on taking me out..after i flat out have called them ugly, a loser, disgusting, ghetto, etc...WTF. why would you want to go out with a girl who clearly dislikes you and thinks you're trash? i swear, just like there are a lot of girls with issues in this world, theres clearly no shortage of guys with them either...

and i personally dont know ANY girl who likes the bad boy. the few i see are girls at the club who have major unresolved issues. all of my girl friends date nice guys...but that just might be because i am picky about who i befriend and only surround myself with decent human beings. yes a lot of girls nowadays like bad boys, but a lot of girls nowadays also like Ke$ha and Kanye West. Do you really want to date a girl with such bad taste?

you know what all chick flicks also always have? a guy who is smitten by a girl purely because of her LOOKS. clearly this is innacurate as in the real world, guys dont give that much of a flying fuck about looks. at least from my experience. (then again i dont date jerks...maybe jerks fall hard for hot girls, but not the guys i date.)

ukmissy
04-25-2011, 03:03 PM
if you guys are equal then you are blessed



We are indeed - to both points raised......

And, he's a 'nice guy' ! Couldn't dream of nicer ! I certainly have never been attracted to egotistical jerks* ... confident , sure... Ego issues- Never !

My girls all date nice men - I'm sure displaying the behavior of a jerk is only ever going to attract an airhead - or like girly says, a self destructive kind of woman .

La girl - your Mr nice is out there somewhere :-)

I'm not sure how someone who is a ''shy nice guy'' , can be a ''confident egotistical jerk'' and visa versa ! One is who they are, and if they can't be who they are - They are very unavailable to me , as a friend or otherwise !

Missy

[email protected] , women need excitement , (but at the risk of sounding like mush) falling truly head over heels for someone is very exciting, especially when it's reciprocated - No jerk required for such excitement :-)

lagirl
04-25-2011, 03:17 PM
thats very true. the shy nice guy who can flip a switch and be an egotistical jerk is actually a closet narcissist who was just trying to keep his assholishness hidden by being shy and "nice." i notice a lot of nice guys are actually closet jerks who just like to complain about how girls like assholes, when in reality the reason girls dont like them is because theyre not very good at hiding their inner asshole.

every nice guy i know would never label himself as nice. in fact a lot of them seem to think that theyre bad people. then i ask them to elaborate and they seriously are being super hard on themselves. like my friend for example , hes always like "im suchhh a bad person im suchhhhh a slut" then i find out hes only slept with like 6 people. i did have a guy friend who claimed to be nice and said girls only liked jerks. i soon discovered he himself was a jerk. he pretty much envied other jerks and would "joke" about girls being whores and about how cool it was to work around playmates. it was clear he was just saying he was joking to save his ass and it was how he truly felt

jack0177057
04-25-2011, 04:49 PM
I'm not sure how someone who is a ''shy nice guy'' , can be a ''confident egotistical jerk'' and visa versa !

People can change over time, either because they want to experiment with their identity/personality or because something happens that causes a change. (For example, some people become bitter or jaded and become mean.)

I grew up in a tough NYC neighborhood, so I had to be "tough" around guys, but I was also a shy "nice guy" around girls. Before college, I was introverted and intimidated by girls - not all of them, but the ones I really liked. I was always around pretty girls, but the ones I pined for the most did not reciprocate.

In college, I started out as an introverted and serious academic type (i.e., nerdy), but I joined a popular/wild fraternity to balance out my social life. This experience helped me to develop my "wild" extroverted side. It seemed like the more confident and cocky I became around women, the more shit I could get away with and the more options I had - both "nice" girls and sorrority girls responded well to me. I was a fun-egotistical-jerk, though - not really an asshole-jerk. I might have been merciless with my teasing, but never really hurt anyone emotionally. I ended up seriously dating a girl that was way out of my league in every way - looks, class, wealth, sophistication, etc., and I married her after college. Had I not developed my confident slightly-egotistical personality, I would have been too intimidated to ever come near her, or I would have scared her away by "worshiping" her too soon in the relationship.

lagirl
04-25-2011, 04:59 PM
sounds like you were just a closet jerk all along. you can be shy and be a hateful jerk. me for example- im very shy but am a very very cruel person. well not to nice people, just to jackasses, and theres a lot of them

also, nice guys dont think in terms of leagues. if you do thats a sign that you're not actually a nice person.i date lots of nice guys and theyre always calling me out when i mention leagues. to them it doesnt exist, everyone is an equal

jack0177057
04-25-2011, 05:08 PM
^ What? "Leagues" don't exist and everyone is "equal"?

Previously, you said "people need to understand where their limitations are" and you were talking about things like attractiveness ("nice guys belong with nice girls, not necessarily attractive girls") and class ("its about as ridiculous as a poor girl from the hood wanting a multimillionaire"). You said - "sorry if thats offensive to anyone but im a firm believer of knowing your type, owning it, and working with what you have."

How is that consistent with your statement now that leagues "doesnt exist, everyone is an equal"?

I was a "poor boy from the hood" growing up and the girl I married after college was from a wealthy and old aristocratic family. She was way out of my league.

ukmissy
04-25-2011, 05:22 PM
Jack - I agree people can change over time , but I'm not sure I would be comfortable around someone who ''experimented'' with their ''personality''

A personality is what makes one who they are .

- I'm very down to earth , and I love to be around such people - It's what I love about my man , he's open and honest ! If one experiments with their personality , eventually they will tire of it - and the truth will unfold - which isn't fair to the people the 'act' has been sold to :-)

Maybe it's just the term 'experiment with personality/identity' that freaks me out .... Because it suggests reverting back to the original personality when the experiment is over !

Changing over time - that's a different matter

Which are you now ? You say you had more luck with the ladies when you weren't a nice guy .... Any comment on la-girlys point about the type of ladies who were attracted to that egotistical ass ? And if the quality was no different , why change back? :-) ( If you have )

ukmissy
04-25-2011, 05:30 PM
sounds like you were just a closet jerk all along. you can be shy and be a hateful jerk. me for example- im very shy but am a very very cruel person. well not to nice people, just to jackasses, and theres a lot of them



I think really - It sounds like he wasn't a jerk all along.... But what about this woman who became attracted to ego you.... Did you have to remain that way - did she not get sick of you when Mr nice guy came back ? That's the problem I'm having with this split personality thing !

jack0177057
04-25-2011, 05:34 PM
Jack - I agree people can change over time , but I'm not sure I would be comfortable around someone who ''experimented'' with their ''personality''

In my opinion, you can experiment with your personality up until college (or up to 21yoa if you don't go to college). People experiment with a lot of things in college - alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, etc. It is your last chance to "try" things/experiences you've never tried before and to learn who you really are, as opposed to who you've been due to external circumstances.

I agree that, after college, you're supposed to be an adult - your personality should have developed fully and matured, and you should not undergo an more "experimentation" or change.

ukmissy
04-25-2011, 05:44 PM
^ I misunderstood --- I thought this 'experimenting' was something you implemented in your every day life ! On which note I apologize for my strange psycho analysis ! Needless to say in my teenage years, I was a brat !

jack0177057
04-25-2011, 05:48 PM
^ I like brats,... but, they need a good spanking every now and then.


I think really - It sounds like he wasn't a jerk all along.... But what about this woman who became attracted to ego you.... Did you have to remain that way - did she not get sick of you when Mr nice guy came back ?

I think I became a balance of both "Mr. Nice" and "Mr. Egotist". I was romantic and did sometimes put her up on a pedestal to praise her, but I was no pushover... If I felt the least bit slighted, Mr. Egotist would push Mr. Nice aside, and she would learn really quick that I had a very high opinion of myself and wouldn't take any crap. Like all couples, we "tested" each other determine who would be dominant in the relationship. The outcome - we were very much equal.

arielbriel
04-25-2011, 05:59 PM
I was following that thread religiously without even posting *TG* you had me going! I was so excited to read your play by play . Ok yes that guy bailed at the last minute with the bs my mother's sick routine. That was a pretty pathetic excuse. There will always be guys that fall out of the rankings but I think that site may yield some promising results. I read some of the hateful reviews from other women on the site and thought hmm ok. Some women kept talking about how they are just horny and want to have sex for free and also talked about being "cougars" blah. I felt those were some trolls in the chatroom sense and visually as well. They ended up derailing the whole comments section in the post which was apparently their intention in the first place. Even a guy kept posting something about some bar where 85% of men get laid by cougars or some crap. I was like wow is this the bar owner or a pissed off man that would never pay for non sexual date? I also liked their video because any attractive woman that's signed up for an internet dating site has gone through the horrible task of sifting through hundreds of garbage messages. If the guy was unattractive and left some uber long message , he did usually get deleted.

But that site seems like an option for the typical undesirable man visually , but perhaps has more to offer in "other" areas. Also obviously after clist got a beating I'm pretty sure many men would sign up here. A guy that is broke or cheap is not going to be able to do much with this site. She may meet him but if he has no money then she's walking away. I think the only problem with this is that you have to meet him to get your money and that could be a waste of gas , time and energy especially if he's either a no show, poor or demanding sex when you get there. I liked the idea of 50% upfront and 50% at the end of the date. So if if he's a complete ass he can walk out with maybe $250 instead of the $500. That would actually be pretty ok.

Well, dates paid or otherwise flake all time. It's just part of life. I would never allow a guy to give me half "afterward". Who says when the date is "over"? He could hold onto that money for dear life so I can leave when the hour is up or when I decide I'm done with it. All of it upfront or I'm gone. I also try to set up dates near my club that way once I'm done, I go straight to work so it won't be a waste of gas in the event he doesn't give up the money.

lagirl
04-25-2011, 06:31 PM
i believe they exist, but thats my narcassistic douchey mentality. every genuinely nice person i have ever met doesnt think in terms of leagues. i personally think theyre just being delusional...but thats how nice people think. they dont think someone attractive is superior to someone ugly. in fact they often end up with average mates. because they dont believe in the idea of leagues they dont concern themselves with getting girls who are out of their league, because they are not shallow and looks obsessed like we are. thus without even knowing it, they are dating within their limitations. its the delusional douchebags who deliberately seek out pretty girls that are the ones that need to take a good long look in the mirror and recognize their limitations.

roxter
04-26-2011, 02:01 AM
To the OP, I did a bit of escorting without sex but it was not easy.
I worked in "bars" where I would get paid to sit and drink with customers. The place I worked at was known for extras. Many of the girls I worked with were prostitutes or massage parlour girls.

Very rarely did guys come by themselves. Usually what happened is a group of very wealthy guys (usually some kind of business related group) would come and request four or five girls into one of the private VIP rooms. Maybe half the time I would get asked for extras, I would say no, but the other girls would quickly let them know they did them. They would continue to let me order drinks perhaps thinking I was playing hard to get. (I got paid by how long they had me sitting there, and the type of alcohol they buy.) There's usually one "shy" type guy there that is usually just there cause their colleagues took them there, and they are not looking for extras, they were just dragged there. I usually just tried to figure out which one was that person, and honed in on him and got him to drink more and have a good time.

The other half when they didn't ask for extras may have been because the other girls would pretty much after ten minutes try to get them for extras, so I would just keep sitting there having watered down drinks. And they wouldn't tell me to leave the room. I know some girls that would get asked to leave, but that never happened to me cause I was friendly and passive and would try to be charming. So they would just let me continue to stay in the room.
I think these guys just expensed it to their companies as the charge on the bill was for bottles of alcohol etc.

As I mentioned, a lot of the guys that came in were there for something business related, so their business partners or prospective clients would take them there, so a lot were from out of town. I went on a few dates with some of them (never more than two with the same person cause they probably figured out i really would not have sex) and got paid for it. I would make clear that I don't sleep with them, but would like to go with them for dinner etc, but I needed to be compensated for the time I could have been at work.

I had a certain look these guys liked. The pay was very good, but it was not really a steady income because pretty much every guy expects to have sex so there is not really any repeat customers, and it would have to be some lonely guy from out of town or something that just wants company that pretty much has everything expensed on the company dime. The economy was really good when I was working, and then it took a downturn, so it just was too hard to make money when a guy could just go to a massage parlour and get much more bang for the buck.

jack0177057
04-27-2011, 08:16 AM
^ Roxter, I'd definitely pay money just to sit with you to chat and stare at your boobs - I love the pics you posted. ;)

I think it might work in a situation like what you describe - a club were guys pay to sit at a table and chat with girls.

But, with an "outcall escort service", its going to be different. A guy calls an escort to come to his hotel room, he expects sexual activities. They are going to call it a scam if she doesn't deliver on this expectation.

Maybe what the OP needs to do is call herself an outcall stripper or erotic "model", instead of an "escort". She can advertise for outcall erotic stripping/modeling service, and strongly emphasize - "modeling only, NOT AN ESCORT SERVICE."

TouringGirlfriend
04-27-2011, 08:30 AM
Maybe what the OP needs to do is call herself an outcall stripper or erotic "model", instead of an "escort". She can advertise for outcall erotic stripping/modeling service, and strongly emphasize - "modeling only, NOT AN ESCORT SERVICE."
Bleh..

I've seen people advertise like that and they were escorts. So it would be a toughie for the OP to make it clear to the guys that she's not wanting to sex them.