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That"MODEL"Chick
05-01-2011, 03:55 PM
and think of all the unregistered lurkers. Peeping and watching in utter silence...
creepy!!!

BustyAmeera
05-01-2011, 03:59 PM
creepy!!!

Sure is. Just check the amount of "guests" WATCHING. Yeah some are just some of us who don't feel like logging on, but who are the OTHERS :O

BuffyFlame
05-01-2011, 05:52 PM
^^
Predators, Stalkers, Bashers, Stripper haters, Sex work haters, COPS... Ect =P

Fridays
05-01-2011, 06:04 PM
COPS? lol
IRS and FBI as lurkers too, who knows :D

That"MODEL"Chick
05-01-2011, 06:08 PM
^^Well that certainly wouldn't be good for our "IRS cheaters"!! ::)

Slab4508
05-01-2011, 07:12 PM
... which is why anyone that wants to read private threads needs to be an active member of the forum. Anyone new to the forum (stalker, "adult" worker, or potential cammer) will be lurking the public threads by default. I suspect that women just wanting to learn more will be happy going thru the public threads for a while, slowly adding posts here and there. The bad guys that are already a lost cause will want in ASAP and may post 50 times in an hour in order to look more involved.

Like getting a gun, getting access to the private area should require a mandatory waiting period!

Besides, the bulk of the forum will be public, with only a small private area. Hidding the thread names and not showing when they are updated would be a good idea as well.

TouringGirlfriend
05-01-2011, 07:43 PM
i completely agree with you. i am just pointing out that members have been banned in the past for advertising or starting forums in competition with SW.

This. I know we are not allowed to mention that other site. :-X

Pryce
05-01-2011, 08:55 PM
Hi Dixie,

I do believe that a separate forum here is justified in the "Industry Discussions" section. You ladies have turned Other Work into something vibrant and valuable to other cam girls. I see no reason an exotic dancer site should not embrace "virtual stripping". I also know we have many members who do both and am happy to support the work you do. A forum limited to females only, is appropriate and needed. Additionally, I have no problem adding more mods to help the section run smoothly. I will discuss this with the current moderators to get their feedback on good candidates. Hopefully we can get something put together in the next couple of weeks.

Concerning a more private forum - over the past 10 years, I've seen the call for a more private group come from EVERY social group that has taken root here. The request rings out ever 2 years or so, gains steam, and typically something is branched off. Within 0-3 years, that social groups fractures further or dies out from inactivity.

In fact, when SW first started, another private group was founded at the same - it too was hosted at our domain (Tre's forum for those who remember). The original Locker Room was an experiment in providing a private place. I recall 3 other times we've had large social splits.

The pattern I've seen in all cases is similar. A group of people find SW and build tight friendships through the site. They are happy with the close-knit group and want it to only grow in a specific direction or they want a utopian version of SW. Typically security is a concern. So they put up barriers to entry. The irony is that those same barriers would have actually stood in the way of the original group from developing and the new community suffers the problems people who live in small towns see. Drama, sub-factions, unclear vision, small populations, etc.

That is the reason I decided to make SW the "big city" - albeit with the problems of a big city. There is no perfection, it is a balance between options. I do believe it is always important to continue evolving, but a stable foundation is very important. In the end, my goal has been to provide a accesible, consistent, and dependable home for our members and the industry. That is why, though I embrace evolving, I don't allow us to change quickly and go with every whim. I know we are by no means perfect, but no one else has survived the way we have. That is not an accident.

In the past we have tested most every option you can think of. At one time, SW itself was closed off to search engines and required registration to read. I assure you the policies we have in place are due to the experiences we've had over the past 10 years and what has worked best to keep this place active and home for its members.

I know that will not kill the desire for a smaller, private, tight-knit community however. It is the same reason small towns exist all over the world. It is human nature to want to preserve a social scene and create utopias. It is why this site was started in the first place! In my personal life, I too enjoy a small social scene, though I live in a big city. In a similar way, in the community section of this site, we do provide a way to create Social Groups. The owner of a group can make the 100% private and manually approve membership. Again, I know that may not be what you are looking for - but it is an option should choose to take advantage of it.

As for posting private, legal, or identifying information online - I would caution ALL against it. You never know who has access to that information and it is not easy to destroy. Major companies have a problem with this, small sites have a problem with this. SW does limit guests to only seeing a few pages without registering. We also do our best to secure your private info and are follow industry standards on our servers. BUT, information abuse can come from a hacker, a creepy stalker, another member you pissed off, or even a website admin who is self destructing. I would recommend none of you turn over identifying information to ANYONE. Consider everything you put online as public. You are only safe by not publishing your information.


i completely agree with you. i am just pointing out that members have been banned in the past for advertising or starting forums in competition with SW.

More to come on this soon Athena, but as I've stated before, the founder of that site knowingly lied to members and tried to steal them from here using private messages. We defended ourselves legally and received an acknowledgment that lies were used. I will have more details on that topic within the next month or two.

TouringGirlfriend
05-01-2011, 09:29 PM
Thank you so much for responding Pryce!!!!!

Athenathefabulous
05-01-2011, 09:34 PM
^^yea i dont know everything about the whole 'other site' drama since i joined after it happened. im on both sites, i am more active over here, although i did have a stalker scare for a minute that made me only post over there for a bit. from my perspective it is an instance of 'he said she said' and i dont know enough about it to form an opinion, so i dont have a stance on the matter.

i dont want SW to be completely closed at all... i like the fact that it is open for a lot of reasons. and some of the long term members are indeed close friends by now, but i like the fact that it is evolves and we do get valuable members who join and become close. i would like there to be a private section... i joined after this 'locker room' existed, but it sounds like a good idea.

i didnt know that groups could be made private. certainly i think those can be used to members benifits. a lot of features on this site are not used as much as i think they should be. not sure why, i guess its because very few people have taken the initiative.

TouringGirlfriend
05-01-2011, 09:43 PM
I didn't know about the groups. In fact, I'm going to create one now for escorting and make it private. I think it is awesome that sw has that feature. While I'll like to have a private forum, the other work section of this site has become a goldmine. Newbies can easily search the thread for scams, what to do during that time of the month, etc. There is so much here on sw that is not found on any other site. I want the site open for that reason. Private or non private/Verification or no verification I will always be thankful for sw and will follow whatever direction it goes.

CoolBreeze
05-01-2011, 10:15 PM
@coolbreeze
yes, I'm technically capable and more than a little bit of a perfectionist - but I think even if it takes a while to get it up, if it's right, it's right.

as far as exclusive to just performers, I'm concerned about excluding other adult workers!! clearly PSO workers, escorts, etc. still need a private place - but I'm open to ideas, so long as it doesn't involve me or other mods possessing your information!! you don't like my skype idea? I guess I'm thinking for the first what, 50 posts or something, a new member is very very closely watched, maybe we even restrict membership to referrals! whatever we have to do, but I do not think verification re:camnames is safe, secure, or smart at ALL.

by all means, share your ideas!!! I'm sure if you've been considering them for so long they must be fantastic :)

Let's see what Pryce has in mind. I'm happy as a clam to defer to someone else. Though the bandwidth outages and "too many users online" messages are a bit discouraging. Moderation is going to make or break the "new" forum, so I hope those delegated (or invited) are representative of each distinctive "social" group in "other work". At least the obvious ones. So that there are checks and balances which will allow the forum to grow and continue to evolve. Level headed people who don't necessarily agree with each other all the time, but who are capable of facilitating productive communication and at the same time unilaterally squashing bullshit. I see several of those people here. They're usually pretty quiet.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you'll proceed Pryce. Thanks for taking the time to respond here.

Breeze

roast
05-02-2011, 06:45 AM
;) ....

dixievista
05-02-2011, 06:51 AM
thank you Pryce!!!! thank you thank you thank you.

I too would MUCH rather stay here, as the community is wonderful and it is already well known - I also didn't know that group could be private, that totally makes sense! But guests don't have to register to see everything on every thread - I was reading the entirety of this site for a few weeks before I finally registered. I was never even prompted to, unless I tried to comment.

Thank you for explaining the reasoning behind everything - it makes logical sense, so I get it! Hopefully we can figure out something that works for everyone :D :D :D

Athenathefabulous
05-02-2011, 06:57 AM
^i dont quite understand the issue with giving a private mod of a private forum your cam info.

i mean if you are going to join a private forum, it seems a big component of the forum is trust. so find a mod to verify that you all deem to be legit and trustworthy. this shouldnt be way too difficult... especially if you find someone who has been on here for a while, has met members in person, and has demonstrated integrity.

i mean you can be paranoid, but my general belief is that most people are not sinister and out to get you. in a lot of ways i land on the too trusting side of the line , but it has really only dicked me over once (many of you have read my posts on my ex's current girlfriend who has/is cyberstalking me)... but reality is, if someone is putting together a forum and knows some of you girls, they are probably actually trying to put together a forum as opposed to trying to collect info to sell on the black market.

my trusting opinion is biased as i do couchsurfing and have never felt threatened and have met many people off this site and have never been threatened. ive met a few lame people in both communities, but in general, people are not as horrible as we like to assume. i know the adult industry brings out some of the worst in terms of character and paranoia, but still... not all creeps.

roast
05-02-2011, 07:02 AM
Given the ID breach that happened for one site, I wouldnt really want the possibility of running into someone who may have saved the ID pics matching my face with my ID with my forum name. Or if that person stores the verification pictures somewhere unsecured. Both are very very very small possibilities I realize - so I probably wouldnt mind doing the usual verification as well... but to make other methods available to those who are uneasy about traditional verification avenues... just so we cab include more people who'd to be open to joining but hesitate for whatever their own reasons might be.

If there are any options for donating to increase bandwidth or forum options here Im up for that also

EDIT: I missed the part about private groups - oh cool. awesome

dixievista
05-02-2011, 07:03 AM
I'm going to try out just what Pryce suggested - private groups. Makes sense anyway - a lot of the threads in OW are NOT positive/constructive, but taking the time to report them isn't super effective, but I*think* the group owner can self moderate? I dunno......... we'll figure something out! I'd rather try to make SW work than start from scratch anyway - we just need the right tools to do it :)

Pryce
05-02-2011, 02:01 PM
i would like there to be a private section... i joined after this 'locker room' existed, but it sounds like a good idea.

i didnt know that groups could be made private. certainly i think those can be used to members benifits. a lot of features on this site are not used as much as i think they should be. not sure why, i guess its because very few people have taken the initiative.

The locker-room didn't work out so well for us and created some animosity from members who were not given access. Hence my preference for member ran social groups vs "site-sanctioned" social groups. You are right features are under-utilized. Maybe I can help the social groups but promoting them more on the site and giving them better visibility. I also welcome anyone who has created a group to promote it in their signature, in relevant posts, and via PM.


Though the bandwidth outages and "too many users online" messages are a bit discouraging.


Please report in Site Issues when you see the "too many users online" message. I was under the impression that problem had been resolved. As for the bandwidth overages, I am working with our host and main funder to (fingers crossed) make them a thing of the past. This isn't the first technical issue we've come across in 10 years and I'm certain we'll work it out like we have the others. :)



Moderation is going to make or break the "new" forum, so I hope those delegated (or invited) are representative of each distinctive "social" group in "other work". At least the obvious ones. So that there are checks and balances which will allow the forum to grow and continue to evolve. Level headed people who don't necessarily agree with each other all the time, but who are capable of facilitating productive communication and at the same time unilaterally squashing bullshit. I see several of those people here. They're usually pretty quiet.


I will agree that the best suited moderators tend to be those who are comparatively quiet and level-headed. In the past, call for mods have quickly turned into popularity contests. That's not best for the site. To be honest, I'd rather find someone who is not considered a member of any clear social group so they are free from social pressure. Moderation is very important.


But guests don't have to register to see everything on every thread - I was reading the entirety of this site for a few weeks before I finally registered. I was never even prompted to, unless I tried to comment.

Your browser settings may be allowing you to do so, however, typically a guest should only be able to read 5 threads before being required to register. I just tested this out with Firefox and it worked successfully. It's not a 100%, but nothing is. As I mentioned, it can be bypassed through specific browser settings. However, it works in most cases and provides some privacy - like blinds in your home.


^i dont quite understand the issue with giving a private mod of a private forum your cam info.

i mean if you are going to join a private forum, it seems a big component of the forum is trust. so find a mod to verify that you all deem to be legit and trustworthy. this shouldnt be way too difficult... especially if you find someone who has been on here for a while, has met members in person, and has demonstrated integrity.


Given the ID breach that happened for one site, I wouldnt really want the possibility of running into someone who may have saved the ID pics matching my face with my ID with my forum name. Or if that person stores the verification pictures somewhere unsecured.

I'm with roast on this one. Your first security concern is the site's admin. Their carelessness (due to computer security inexperience) is a huge liability. Most breeches happen due to improperly secured data. Secondly, in my time here, I've seen many admin's have a meltdown. Most of our competitors have gone down in a blaze of glory. Administering a site like this can be extremely stressful from many different directions - you want to make sure your admin can be trusted even at the worst times and won't misuse your data. Lastly, even a well meaning and knowledgeable admin can have their system hacked - as some major companies have recently learned. Here are 3 examples from the past month:

Sony: Names, birthdays, email addresses, login info, and CREDIT CARD NUMBERS of 10,000,000 customers (http://www.suntimes.com/business/5136876-420/sony-execs-apologize-for-playstation-network-security-breach.html)

JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Verizon, Kraft Foods, Hilton, TiVo, Capital One, Walgreens, The College Board, BestBuy, and more: Hacked email addresses and names (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/03/epsilon-hack_n_844212.html)

New York Yankees: Names, home addresses, email addresses, phone numbers, account numbers for 17,000 season ticket holders (http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-28/yankees-leak-personal-information-from-season-ticket-holders-accounts.html)

The ONLY way to protect your private info is to never give it out in the first place.


a lot of the threads in OW are NOT positive/constructive, but taking the time to report them isn't super effective, but I*think* the group owner can self moderate?

Owners should be able to moderate their own groups. Please try it out and let me know in Site Issues if there are any problems. We'll get it worked out. I am also curious to hear more about reporting not being effective. Reporting threads and posts should be the best way to handle trolls and problem posters. Can you post in site issues with examples (this is an open invite to all members)? I'd like to look further into this and see where we can improve our process. Thank you!

dixievista
05-02-2011, 02:38 PM
@Pryce

woops I guess I was assuming everyone reports trolls & scammers? I'm new(ish) :) the trend seems to fight back, which I though could only be the result of reporting being ineffective, I must have jumped to that conclusion

everybody: flag scammers! flag trolls!

laurielegs
05-02-2011, 03:18 PM
I'm going to try out just what Pryce suggested - private groups. Makes sense anyway - a lot of the threads in OW are NOT positive/constructive, but taking the time to report them isn't super effective, but I*think* the group owner can self moderate? I dunno......... we'll figure something out! I'd rather try to make SW work than start from scratch anyway - we just need the right tools to do it :)

That sounds really good.

I'd be way more comfortable sharing screen names and networking with other hosts, exchanging banners, etc. if I knew for a fact my posts will not be picked up by Google.

Networking can be such a valuable tool.

Athenathefabulous
05-02-2011, 04:00 PM
putting personal data in a place that can be hacked would obviously be a bad idea. and i didnt mean send in identification, real name, address, or any of that stuff... i guess having a short skype convo with the admin of a site (i dont have skype... but i am assuming it is anonymous as in not linked to any real phone numbers?) or a screenshot of you on webcam didnt seem too damaging to have, esp if these are not recorded or saved. keeping a database would be inappropriate.

but yea, i forget that webcam girls have a lot more at stake than strippers in terms of this stuff since their customers are definitely on the internet. my customers are in person and my stage name is different, even if they could track me down and find me on here from our interactions in the club it wouldnt be the end of the world. you are right that the only 100% way to keep your info secure when it comes to the internet is to just not post it.

Bambalina
05-03-2011, 07:50 PM
A few thoughts...

First, I think we all need to defer to Pryce in all things forum....experience tells here, and I really love the private groups thing!

Secondly, as some of you know, I created a forum for camgirls. As an homage to pryce and SW, I put in an Other Work section for all the other stuff...One of my first posts on CGU was telling people to come here and read this forum, because it rocks and is fantastic...I do not see CamGirlsUnited as competition to this forum in ANY way shape or form...when people discuss "moving" there, I ask them why they would "move"? Why not have your cake and eat it too? I want you to come and actively post on my forum, but I definitely don;t want you to stop posting HERE, and if in fact I thought my forum was hurting or god forbid killing this one, I would shut down.

This forum is my inspiration, and I think we all need to treat it as a goldmine. If Pryce wants one, a banner spot on CGU belongs to SW anytime. No charge ever.

That all being said, I decided to add a section for camgirls only. I do the verification, and it consists of asking for a custom image (ie. Send a pic of you tweaking your earlobe, or whatever) and a link to ANY active profile on any active camsite that shows the pic and the profile are the same person. I realize that some people don;t want to gie out theit cam name or where they cam to me, and so be it...

Nice way to say it: I understand their concerns and I look at it that to be a "verified camgirl" and not show me where they cam is going to be tough, and if their privacy concerns are that intense, they can just use the public sections of CGU, or just post here. (ie. Privacy is not important enough to give up a tiny bit and prove they are real, so they muct remain in the fully wide opens reaches of the google indexed forum world).

Not so nice way: If you are unwilling to prove yourself enough that others can feel safe being in the private camgirls forums with you, then too fucking bad, and you get to hang out in wide open cyberspace and post for lurkers and spammers and stalkers and customers, and you cut off your nose to spite your face...how smart...

We (and I stupidly speak for all forum owners here) don't need to please every last forum participant...We need to make a safe fun interesting place to hang out that draws good people. I believe this is what Pryce is saying when it is said that "many different things have been tried".

So, there you go...Personally I think if someone steps up and does a really comprehensive sex worker's forum with areas for Strippers and Escorts and PSOs and Camgirls and so on, it would be a great boon to this industry and I would applaud them..I am thinking Pryce would do the same. It is a grand and wonderful idea, and one that is WAY overdue. SW is mostly for Strippers and OW blew up and became wonderful, and CGU is MOSTLY for camgirls and I hope it blows up as well, but a site that comprehensively handles all the genres of adultwork would really be awesome, especially if it also was able unself-consciously direct people to SW or CGU or elsewhere that handles specific questions better. Wow...what a cool world that would be, eh?

B