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Melonie
06-09-2011, 01:12 PM
I just read an article that said that 90% of millionaires have college degrees.

And I just read an article that says that 15% of US Mail Carriers have Bachelor's Degrees ... with the major job skill requirements being the ability to read and the ability to carry a 70 pound sac ! Of course, the globally unrealistic $45k per year median salary and wall to wall employee benefits of US Mail Carriers probably has a lot to do with those Bachelor's Degree graduates choosing to deliver mail. And that globally unrealistic $45k per year median salary and wall to wall employee benefits also has a lot to do with the fact that the US Postal Service is A. bankrupt and B. uncompetitive versus 'global economy' delivery options. The ONLY reasons that the US Postal Service is still in business at all are the gov't dictated monopoly on 'letter' deliveries within the USA ( which permits them to pass on outrageous delivery prices to consumers who are denied other options ) and stealth subsidies from US taxpayers. But these days, having a Bachelor's Degree may make the difference between being hired as a US Mail Carrier or not !!!

bucket
06-09-2011, 04:58 PM
And I just read an article that says that 15% of US Mail Carriers have Bachelor's Degrees ... with the major job skill requirements being the ability to read and the ability to carry a 70 pound sac ! Of course, the globally unrealistic $45k per year median salary and wall to wall employee benefits of US Mail Carriers probably has a lot to do with those Bachelor's Degree graduates choosing to deliver mail. And that globally unrealistic $45k per year median salary and wall to wall employee benefits also has a lot to do with the fact that the US Postal Service is A. bankrupt and B. uncompetitive versus 'global economy' delivery options. The ONLY reasons that the US Postal Service is still in business at all are the gov't dictated monopoly on 'letter' deliveries within the USA ( which permits them to pass on outrageous delivery prices to consumers who are denied other options ) and stealth subsidies from US taxpayers. But these days, having a Bachelor's Degree may make the difference between being hired as a US Mail Carrier or not !!!

Heard about all these janitors with PHd's?
The best bang for the buck in education is to get 2 accredited Associates degrees from a community college. Lot's of people in my area do it.

Zofia
06-16-2011, 08:38 PM
Heard about all these janitors with PHd's?
The best bang for the buck in education is to get 2 accredited Associates degrees from a community college. Lot's of people in my area do it.

Hmmmmm.

A data point. In my company, in my department, if someone, anyone comes in with an Associates in Accounting (ledger posting in reality) and some other Associates degree, we'll pay $40,000 a year with a good benefits package. No Associates but experience posting accounts, $30-35,000 depending on how much experience. Have a B.Sc. in Accounting and the pay scale starts at ~ $60,000/year with a good benefits package. Have the C.P.A. and we'll start you at ~ $110,000, more with experience.

HTH
Z

shift_6x
06-17-2011, 12:07 PM
Hmmmmm.

A data point. In my company, in my department, if someone, anyone comes in with an Associates in Accounting (ledger posting in reality) and some other Associates degree, we'll pay $40,000 a year with a good benefits package. No Associates but experience posting accounts, $30-35,000 depending on how much experience. Have a B.Sc. in Accounting and the pay scale starts at ~ $60,000/year with a good benefits package. Have the C.P.A. and we'll start you at ~ $110,000, more with experience.

HTH
Z

This is relieving news for me. My associates will be in business administration. I am 4 classes away from getting it. I was worried that an associate's in business would get me nowhere. This gives me hope even though my major isnt accounting. :)

Zofia
06-19-2011, 10:12 AM
This is relieving news for me. My associates will be in business administration. I am 4 classes away from getting it. I was worried that an associate's in business would get me nowhere. This gives me hope even though my major isnt accounting. :)I'm not really convinced of the value of an Associates degree, unless it is in some specialty like accounting (ledger posting) or medical coding. However, some hotel/motel chains do have a night position for an "accountant" who is really just doing minor record keeping. It's not a bad job, in smaller hotels/motels, you do have to cover the desk from 11:00 PM to about 5:00 AM. The money is horrible, $30-40,000/year minimal health insurance, few if any days off, lots of weekends and the like. But, if you are a night shift dancer facing the end of the career, it's not a bad transition.

HTH
Z

shift_6x
06-19-2011, 05:05 PM
I'm not really convinced of the value of an Associates degree, unless it is in some specialty like accounting (ledger posting) or medical coding. However, some hotel/motel chains do have a night position for an "accountant" who is really just doing minor record keeping. It's not a bad job, in smaller hotels/motels, you do have to cover the desk from 11:00 PM to about 5:00 AM. The money is horrible, $30-40,000/year minimal health insurance, few if any days off, lots of weekends and the like. But, if you are a night shift dancer facing the end of the career, it's not a bad transition.

HTH
Z


Thank u for ur input. My major is business admn not accounting I suck at accounting but I did well in the supervision business classes, organizational behavior, international business and economics clases I got mostly As and a few Bs. I actutally just got a B in accounting 212 which I took before 211 actually..But honestly I dont get alot of accounting I kinda suck at it..Im not sure what kinds of jobs to even apply for..Im also not that spectacular with computers..Im really good being convincing and aggressive though..ANd Im highly analytical..I just dont know what to try..I have no role model..

rickdugan
06-22-2011, 10:09 AM
I'm not really convinced of the value of an Associates degree...

Truthfully there are very few places where an Associates Degree offers a lot of advantages.

Shift, is there any reason why you couldn't continue on for your Bachelor Degree?

shift_6x
06-22-2011, 12:21 PM
Truthfully there are very few places where an Associates Degree offers a lot of advantages.

Shift, is there any reason why you couldn't continue on for your Bachelor Degree?


When it comes down to it I am getting too old. I cant dance too much longer(Im in my early 30s). I also dont know that I want to rack up 20,000 in student loan debt just to get a bachelor's. The debt doesnt seem to be worth it although I am not completely opposed to the idea. Also I dont see myself wanting to take two more years worth of school. I dont like school. It is extremely stressful and I am still trying to build a nest egg before I retire whichi s going to be soon. I am still trying to build that egg and I go to school part time usually. It is proving to be a tough situation bc an entry level position w an associates that ive seen pays maybe 11/hr if Im lucky..I am not ready for the drop in my money and compared to what some girls' expenses are mine rnt high. Like I have said in some of my other posts I really dont want to work 60 hrs a week to pull in maybe 5-600 at that pay rate. That would make me miserable...I dont know what to do exactly..All I know is that I am trying to save. I know I could stay in the bar business and do something else besides dance if need be. I could do that at 35/36 if need be just around that age I should no longer be on a runway..Im trying to find out what positions are available w a 2 yr bus admn degree...Tried researching online and I didnt have much luck.

eagle2
06-22-2011, 03:41 PM
shift_6x,

There are some companies that will pay your tuition for college if you work for them. If you can get a job with a company that does this, you can get a college degree without running up any debt.

Melonie
06-23-2011, 01:31 AM
^^^ true, but usually such tuition reimbursement offers come with 'strings attached' .... i.e. the major you choose may need to be directly applicable to the employer's future work requirements, you may need to commit to working X years for the employer after graduation ( or pay the employer back for the cost of tuition etc ). And then there is the more basic issue of having to work a full 8 hour a day job and THEN take and PASS college courses at night for 4-6-8 years !!!

shift_6x
06-23-2011, 09:35 AM
shift_6x,

There are some companies that will pay your tuition for college if you work for them. If you can get a job with a company that does this, you can get a college degree without running up any debt.


Eagle.....Pls point me int he direction of these companies..I really dont know where to start looking. Ive looked on craigslist and most admn jobs are low paying and part time..

shift_6x
06-23-2011, 09:36 AM
^^^ true, but usually such tuition reimbursement offers come with 'strings attached' .... i.e. the major you choose may need to be directly applicable to the employer's future work requirements, you may need to commit to working X years for the employer after graduation ( or pay the employer back for the cost of tuition etc ). And then there is the more basic issue of having to work a full 8 hour a day job and THEN take and PASS college courses at night for 4-6-8 years !!!


Melonie---U r right even if I did luck out and find a job that would pay for my bachelor's I dont think I could pull an 8 hour workday which in itself is demanding and then go to school part time for 6 years to get a bachelor's by that time Ill be 45 lol...

rickdugan
06-23-2011, 09:49 AM
When it comes down to it I am getting too old. I cant dance too much longer(Im in my early 30s). I also dont know that I want to rack up 20,000 in student loan debt just to get a bachelor's. The debt doesnt seem to be worth it although I am not completely opposed to the idea. Also I dont see myself wanting to take two more years worth of school. I dont like school. It is extremely stressful and I am still trying to build a nest egg before I retire whichi s going to be soon. I am still trying to build that egg and I go to school part time usually. It is proving to be a tough situation bc an entry level position w an associates that ive seen pays maybe 11/hr if Im lucky..I am not ready for the drop in my money and compared to what some girls' expenses are mine rnt high. Like I have said in some of my other posts I really dont want to work 60 hrs a week to pull in maybe 5-600 at that pay rate. That would make me miserable...I dont know what to do exactly..All I know is that I am trying to save. I know I could stay in the bar business and do something else besides dance if need be. I could do that at 35/36 if need be just around that age I should no longer be on a runway..Im trying to find out what positions are available w a 2 yr bus admn degree...Tried researching online and I didnt have much luck.

Well, I can understand not wanting to be in school, but if you are getting an Associates Degree then it was just my thought that you might as well see it through to your Bachelor's Degree. You may be getting long in the tooth for dancing, but you're young in terms of the general workforce. A degree in a couple of years could significantly boost your earnings for 30 or more years after!

Now there has been a lot of debate around here about the merits of a college education, but those debates involve general stats that treat a degree in Business Administration the same as a degree in Philosophy. They aren't even close to the same. Philosophy, English Lit., and a variety of other essentially useless liberal arts degrees significantly drag the averages down. Believe me when I say that if you obtain a degree in Finance, Accounting or even general Bus. Admin. you will likley do FAR better than you ever will without one.

In terms of financing, there are a ton of options out there. First off, even if you did finance 20k you'd earn it back quickly with a business degree. However, I don't see why it needs to be that drastic. There should be plenty of 4 year state schools close by that would be fairly cheap. Also, there are financial aid options which may include grants and workstudy, neither of which need to be paid back.

Anyway, just my :twocents:

shift_6x
06-23-2011, 01:56 PM
Well, I can understand not wanting to be in school, but if you are getting an Associates Degree then it was just my thought that you might as well see it through to your Bachelor's Degree. You may be getting long in the tooth for dancing, but you're young in terms of the general workforce. A degree in a couple of years could significantly boost your earnings for 30 or more years after!

Now there has been a lot of debate around here about the merits of a college education, but those debates involve general stats that treat a degree in Business Administration the same as a degree in Philosophy. They aren't even close to the same. Philosophy, English Lit., and a variety of other essentially useless liberal arts degrees significantly drag the averages down. Believe me when I say that if you obtain a degree in Finance, Accounting or even general Bus. Admin. you will likley do FAR better than you ever will without one.

In terms of financing, there are a ton of options out there. First off, even if you did finance 20k you'd earn it back quickly with a business degree. However, I don't see why it needs to be that drastic. There should be plenty of 4 year state schools close by that would be fairly cheap. Also, there are financial aid options which may include grants and workstudy, neither of which need to be paid back.

Anyway, just my :twocents:

There are not plenty of 4 year schools that are cheap. The average credit hour in state is over $270 here at a public university. So after fees and taxes we are talking over $1000 per three credit class! And unfortunately grants do not cover the full costs I know Ive talked to others who have graduated w their 4 yr degree. This area is extremely competitive and the pay is low for ur average job. Many people relocate to DC bc the pay is awful for ur avg job..Its sickening but this area is overrun with people..Thats why even if say I could snap my fingers and have my 4 yr business degree I would struggle to find a job. Everyone wants experience only and Id be overqualified for some entry level positions. So ther eis not guarantee say within the first yr of obtaining the degree that Id even be able to find a job w the degree. Plus I already have some past issues that will make employment difficult. Thats stacked up against me too. And yes being n my early 30s means Im on my way out in terms of the dancing business..ID prolly haev to move home to afford switching careers at this point. Starting out w anything new will mean I have to start out at the bottom all over again and the bottom doesnt pay.

eagle2
06-23-2011, 03:39 PM
Eagle.....Pls point me int he direction of these companies..I really dont know where to start looking. Ive looked on craigslist and most admn jobs are low paying and part time..

UPS will pay up to $3,000 a year in tuition for part-time employees.

https://ups.managehr.com/EarnandLearnProgram.htm

Here's a page that lists some companies that will pay your tuition:

http://college.lovetoknow.com/Companies_That_Help_Employees_Pay_for_College

My friend works at GE and they reimburse her for her tuition.

I'm not sure, but I think most colleges and universities let their employees go to school for free.

Zofia
06-23-2011, 05:49 PM
I worked for Progress Energy, they paid for my MBA, no strings attached. Duke Energy does the same thing. GSK has tuition reimbursement.

HTH
Z

kthnx
06-24-2011, 06:57 AM
i agree that college costs are starting to exceed the value/potential of the degree, and perhaps one should aim for as much scholarship money as possible.

that said, i dont think stripping is necessarily the answer for most either.

melonie, a lotta the arguments u used about college can be applied to stripping too. for example, college costs skyrocketing in recent decades...know what else has skyrocketed?...a stripper's HOUSE FEES and the money that is siphoned from stripper's earnings as well as costs for professional stripper gear and stripper heels, while the potential to make easy money at a stripclub has gone down in recent yrs. u say colleges are supersaturated with too many college students, but then again alotta stripclubs are supersaturated with too many dancers...which means the average dancer has to compete with more extras-givers, cut-throat bully dancers, fugly dancers who most likely scare away more business than help it (this point about unattractive dancers was overkilled in the "fat girls dancing" thred a few weeks ago), than ever before. u quote that these days even a "trained cat" could pass courses at most colleges, but then again unfortunately most clubs have lowered standards enough that even a "grommed cat" could prolly get onto the stage at some strip clubs lol. ok not literally but i think u know what i mean. why else would there be all these "unattractive dancers" and "fat girls dancing" bitch fest threds here on sw if that wasnt the case??! just like college is a money making business, so is pimping--whoops, i meant managing--strippers. stripclub managers/owners are almost like pimps these days in the way they overcharge and overexploit the dancers, and most clubs dont even provide adequate security coverage either from what ive read on here.

just like the potential earnings resulting frm a college degree have gone down in recent yrs, ditto for stripclub earnings. yes there'll be some strippers that always find a way to make good money, or some veteran strippers whose earnings get BETTER over time as opposed to worse, but the same could be said for various college students who use college to persue lucrative fields like medicine, engineering, etc. but just like not everyone can hack it in med school, not every person can hack it as a stripper either. alotta strippers go into it thinking its "easy money" then quit after only a short time becuz they realize theyre not as cut out for making big money as they thought they were...or alternatively, becuz they end up actually getting a strait job with the college degree they persued before and/or during their stripping yrs, and the strait job pays just as much or more with less bullshit factors.

now u could say that the amount invested in a stripping career -- for licenses, stripper gear, pole dancing classes, etc -- is a LOT less than the average student loan debt. yes that is true. however, theres still potential to waste time and money in a stripclub. even a few yrs ago when the industry and the general economy was better, i would see it with some strippers when i bartended at a club. girls sitting around and/or wasting time, making no moeny. or even girls that TRIED real hard but just couldnt hustle and/or attract customers for shit. they would leave in the negative or else they'd make money but not much more than theyd net at some retail job...but atleast with the retail job theyd get earlier workshifts (usually), more security, unemployment insurance, etc...possibly even benifits like workmans comp or (if lucky) healthcare. and this was COMMON for them. or there were girls who had 2nd jobs and admitted times when they made less stripping than if theyd picked up an xtra shift at their other job. in the time theyre "investing" in the stripclub, they could be persuing that better job or atleast training/schooling for a better job that they might be alot better suited for. and then theres those strippers who may or may not make decent money stripping, who HATE stripping and only do it for the paycheck...stripping's not for them either, atleast not past the short term. if they hate stripping, then theyre more likely to burn out. if they dont have a backup plan like another job or a higher education, then when they DO (not if, but do) burn out theyll be left with nothing.

the problem is, both colleges AND stripclubs need to become more selective again. just like theres some girls who shouldnt become strippers, theres some high school students who just arent cut out for college. if schools and stripclubs become more selective, then it cuts out alotta the riff raff that get accepted (into either college or a dancer job) just for their money. currently i heard that some clubs are starting to be a lil more selective again becuz the recession has a huge number of girls getting laid off and wanting to persue stripping as a replacement. im starting to wonder if mebbe the sky-high tuition costs, coupled with decreased household incomes, state budget cuts decreasing fin aid grants, and lenders decreasing the number of people theyll lend money to, will have a similar effect: soon more people wont be able to attend college due to money issues, and the only ones that that will be able to "afford" it will be the ultimate elite: the wealthy and/or the top notch applicants that get full scholarships. it could take a long time for this to happen, and it prolly wont happen nearly as simply as the way i described it, but hey its possible. i guess im relating college enrollment to a population of bacteria: population grows, peaks, then the overcrowding for resources results in the population plummeting/dying out except for the "elite" few bacteria armed with mutations that give them an advantage over the bulk majority of the population. in the case of stripclubs, the "advtanged/mutated bacteria" would be teh top strippers that are the prettiest & best hustlers; in the case of college, the "advantaged/mutated bacteria" would be the top applicants with the highest grades, merits, school involvement, and smarts.

DottieMay
06-24-2011, 07:11 AM
I've been wondering the same thing, but it still makes me happy and I feel like I am learning stuff so I don't mind doing it. I dropped out of school as soon as it was possible for me to drop out, so I kind of miss going to school. Just gotta save up lots to pay it off.

rickdugan
06-24-2011, 07:21 AM
There are not plenty of 4 year schools that are cheap. The average credit hour in state is over $270 here at a public university. So after fees and taxes we are talking over $1000 per three credit class! And unfortunately grants do not cover the full costs I know Ive talked to others who have graduated w their 4 yr degree. This area is extremely competitive and the pay is low for ur average job. Many people relocate to DC bc the pay is awful for ur avg job..Its sickening but this area is overrun with people..Thats why even if say I could snap my fingers and have my 4 yr business degree I would struggle to find a job. Everyone wants experience only and Id be overqualified for some entry level positions. So ther eis not guarantee say within the first yr of obtaining the degree that Id even be able to find a job w the degree. Plus I already have some past issues that will make employment difficult. Thats stacked up against me too. And yes being n my early 30s means Im on my way out in terms of the dancing business..ID prolly haev to move home to afford switching careers at this point. Starting out w anything new will mean I have to start out at the bottom all over again and the bottom doesnt pay.

I guess this is true if you are taking classes part-time. I took the liberty of looking at the tuition and fees for a handful of the state colleges in VA and came up with tuitions ranging from 3300-4200 per semester for full course loads, so with additional fees and books I bet you could do it for around $4,000 per semester with a little searching. And this could all be covered with Pell grants, workstudy and Stafford loans. Hell, most all of this could be covered just with Stafford loans, but of course any grants and workstudy would serve to reduce the debt load.

And whatever issues you have in the past will affect almost any straight job you look for, not just one requiring a Bachelor's Degree. And fwiw, "the bottom" with a business degree is much preferable to the bottom without it. And frankly, even if you financed $16-20k, the reality is that it is chump change compared to the income benefits of having a Bachelor's Degree, particularly in a business discipline.

None of the issues/concerns that you raised are even remotely insurmountable, but I'm not here to try to talk you into something that you just don't want to do.

NickT
06-24-2011, 09:47 AM
Don't do what these people did: CNN: My degree isn't worth the debt! (http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/news/economy/1106/gallery.student_debt/5.html). They got degrees in low paying occupations like sociology and social work but took on $240,000 in debt!

The problem isn't student debt per se. You can't say if a debt all by itself is unreasonable. $240,000 may be fine if you are a doctor. But it's totally out of whack if it's used to be a social worker. It's not necessary to take on that much debt to get that degree.

shift_6x
06-24-2011, 09:48 AM
I guess this is true if you are taking classes part-time. I took the liberty of looking at the tuition and fees for a handful of the state colleges in VA and came up with tuitions ranging from 3300-4200 per semester for full course loads, so with additional fees and books I bet you could do it for around $4,000 per semester with a little searching. And this could all be covered with Pell grants, workstudy and Stafford loans. Hell, most all of this could be covered just with Stafford loans, but of course any grants and workstudy would serve to reduce the debt load.

And whatever issues you have in the past will affect almost any straight job you look for, not just one requiring a Bachelor's Degree. And fwiw, "the bottom" with a business degree is much preferable to the bottom without it. And frankly, even if you financed $16-20k, the reality is that it is chump change compared to the income benefits of having a Bachelor's Degree, particularly in a business discipline.

None of the issues/concerns that you raised are even remotely insurmountable, but I'm not here to try to talk you into something that you just don't want to do.

Rick I do appreciate all ur input. U r not talking me into something I do not want to do but I will not be in a future position where Id be able to attend school for a bachelor's full time. That would be the only way that I would finish school in 2-3 years. I cant handle dancing/another job plus fulltime school..my schoolwork would suffer and Id barely pass over doing it. I know some can but Im n my early 30s and unfortunately my bills wont go away I must work. Now if I was 22 or 23 it would be more feasible to go to school fulltime still but that isnt an option now. ANd yes my past issues may be an issue w any future job thats what Im worried about too. I dont want to waste time money and energy if past mistakes are just going to disqualify me from a future "good run of the mill corporate job". And once again I dont know who to talk to regarding that. Im too scared to go to a friend of mine whos a lawyer bc even though it is supposed to be confidential I really dont trust people w my business.....to be continued..

Melonie
06-24-2011, 02:52 PM
melonie, a lotta the arguments u used about college can be applied to stripping too. for example, college costs skyrocketing in recent decades...know what else has skyrocketed?...a stripper's HOUSE FEES and the money that is siphoned from stripper's earnings as well as costs for professional stripper gear and stripper heels, while the potential to make easy money at a stripclub has gone down in recent yrs. u say colleges are supersaturated with too many college students, but then again alotta stripclubs are supersaturated with too many dancers...which means the average dancer has to compete with more extras-givers, cut-throat bully dancers, fugly dancers who most likely scare away more business than help it (this point about unattractive dancers was overkilled in the "fat girls dancing" thred a few weeks ago), than ever before. u quote that these days even a "trained cat" could pass courses at most colleges, but then again unfortunately most clubs have lowered standards enough that even a "grommed cat" could prolly get onto the stage at some strip clubs lol. ok not literally but i think u know what i mean. why else would there be all these "unattractive dancers" and "fat girls dancing" bitch fest threds here on sw if that wasnt the case??! just like college is a money making business, so is pimping--whoops, i meant managing--strippers. stripclub managers/owners are almost like pimps these days in the way they overcharge and overexploit the dancers, and most clubs dont even provide adequate security coverage either from what ive read on here.

just like the potential earnings resulting frm a college degree have gone down in recent yrs, ditto for stripclub earnings. yes there'll be some strippers that always find a way to make good money, or some veteran strippers whose earnings get BETTER over time as opposed to worse, but the same could be said for various college students who use college to persue lucrative fields like medicine, engineering, etc. but just like not everyone can hack it in med school, not every person can hack it as a stripper either. alotta strippers go into it thinking its "easy money" then quit after only a short time becuz they realize theyre not as cut out for making big money as they thought they were...or alternatively, becuz they end up actually getting a strait job with the college degree they persued before and/or during their stripping yrs, and the strait job pays just as much or more with less bullshit factors.

now u could say that the amount invested in a stripping career -- for licenses, stripper gear, pole dancing classes, etc -- is a LOT less than the average student loan debt. yes that is true. however, theres still potential to waste time and money in a stripclub. even a few yrs ago when the industry and the general economy was better, i would see it with some strippers when i bartended at a club. girls sitting around and/or wasting time, making no moeny. or even girls that TRIED real hard but just couldnt hustle and/or attract customers for shit.


Obviously the business model for the exotic dancing industry is changing along similar lines that the business model is changing for US 'professional' jobs. I would even expand on your analogy to equate upscale big city 'show club' dancers with Ivy League college graduates, and equate 'extras' club dancers with community college graduates. The 'market' for the former remains very lucrative and in demand, while the 'market' for the latter gets ever more 'down and dirty'.

I have to take exception though with your concept that exotic dancing involves any significant amount of investment. With a college degree, the student must invest tens of thousands of dollars and years worth of full time effort before they are able to 'cash in' in their investment after graduation. Exotic dancers can 'cash in' the very next night after they get their dancer's license and buy a couple of stripper outfits. Also there is no 'lost opportunity cost' ( i.e. college students being forced to either work and earn money or study and not earn money ) for exotic dancers.

shift_6x
06-24-2011, 03:30 PM
Ouch, I attend a community college and I am not an extras girl. What an analogy...AT this rate my associates n business sounds like a waste..Sorry I cant attend Princeton.

eagle2
06-24-2011, 03:41 PM
One other way to get funding for college is through the military. If you join the National Guard, they will provide you with tuition assistance.

http://www.nationalguard.com/benefits/money-for-college

You can also get paid to learn a skill in the military. Of course you would have to be willing to join the military. Don't know if it's something you would want to do.

Melonie
06-24-2011, 04:04 PM
Ouch, I attend a community college and I am not an extras girl

I think you misinterpreted the analogy. Like 'clean' dancers competing with extras girls in a 'dirty' club, community college graduates will also wind up competing with a myriad of other job candidates with less than 'outstanding' credentials that are willing to A. work cheap, B. work under less than ideal job conditions, C. go the 'extra' mile to gain favor with the boss etc. The point was about supply and demand. Ivy League graduates are in limited supply and employers create a heavy demand because their credentials are perceived to be 'outstanding', whereas community college graduates are in nearly infinite supply with little employer demand. Or put another way, just like 'dirty' club customers choosing which dancers to buy private dances from, employer hiring decisions for one community college degreed job applicant out of 5-10 others will ultimately be based on some OTHER criteria besides their community college degree.

shift_6x
06-25-2011, 05:34 PM
I live in one of the most heavily concentrated military towns in the world and with all my experiences I would not join the military. I may marry someone in the military bc the spouse can get money for college but I dont want to rely on that.

Melonie---I know u meant no harm, but soon I will be one of the myriad of community college graduates shortly and as u have described us cc graduates are not in as much demand as an Ivy League graduate. That just reminds me of how hard its going to be to transition out of my dancing career and my age is going to force me out shortly...Its scary..

Melonie
06-25-2011, 11:33 PM
I know u meant no harm, but soon I will be one of the myriad of community college graduates shortly and as u have described us cc graduates are not in as much demand as an Ivy League graduate.

Yes I know ... and I meant nothing derogatory either. I was simply trying to point out that for a variety of reasons - from non-academic scholarship policies, to 'tweaking' of academic standards to avoid embarrassing minority dropout rates, to the 'politicalization' of hiring practices re professors - community colleges have allowed their academic standards to decline to the point where potential employers cannot trust in the fact that a community college graduate has the basic skills necessary to perform the required work 'right out of the gate'.

While there are undoubtedly many present and future community college graduates whose personal abilities are outstanding, potential employers are far less likely to 'gamble' on hiring a community college graduate when a different candidate with stronger educational credentials and/or real world work experience is available at the same 'price'. Thus as long as there continues to be 5+ qualified applicants for every professional job opening, community college graduates with zero directly applicable real world work experience are going to remain at the 'bottom' of the employer's resume' pile !

shift_6x
06-26-2011, 02:24 PM
l as there continues to be 5+ qualified applicants for every professional job opening, community college graduates with zero directly applicable real world work experience are going to remain at the 'bottom' of the employer's resume' pile !


Yep, thats going to be me at the bottom of the pile having a hard time getting a job. Im not really excited about graduating even though I should be. I am going to have to restore some kind of hope otherwise my realistic yet negative viewpoint isnt going to land me any future job. I will have to work hard to sell myself in the interview thats for sure,

Mr Hyde
06-26-2011, 08:31 PM
The answer to the question that started this thread is yes...but most especially if the degree earned is an area in which the degree-holder can earn good money, and if earned in an economical fashion.

High earning degrees-accounting, engineering, computer science, quantitative business/info sciences, chemistry, and certain scientific degrees (geology, for example).

Decent earning degrees-finance, nursing, math, HR, some other science degrees, sometimes education, some various other business degrees

But even the least specifically applicable degrees will get you in the door for some jobs. A bachelor's degree used to be a ticket to a high income....but even today, it tells an employer that you had the mental wherewithal to make it through 4 years of college...and if they want someone with a few watts of brainpower, they'll likely get it.

Now, does this mean that you should incur $200k in debt to secure a BA in Philosophy? No, that's a fool's path. But that is not necessary. Choose a degree path that has SOME sort of earning power, and if you don't have a lot of money, find ways to make it happen. Community colleges are generally every inexpensive. That's two years of a degree already earned there.

The rest can be done without borrowing enough to buy a starter house, but only if you put your mind to it and sacrifice.

So yes, a college degree is still a great investment in yourself, if done the right way.

Melonie
06-27-2011, 02:12 AM
A bachelor's degree used to be a ticket to a high income....but even today, it tells an employer that you had the mental wherewithal to make it through 4 years of college...and if they want someone with a few watts of brainpower, they'll likely get it.

This is undoubtedly true ... and will remain true in the future. But there is also a flip side.

Even today, some employers are reluctant to hire 4 year degree graduates for jobs that don't actually require such a high qualification level even if that 4 year graduate is willing to accept the lesser job and lesser paycheck. The reluctance stems from the high probability that, after hiring, the 4 year graduate will continue to look for a better job for which their degree qualifies them ... meaning that the employer will be investing X amount of time and money into job training / learning curve lost productivity when the 4 year degree holder is hired, and then reinvesting X amount of time and money to train a replacement employee when the 4 year degree holder finds a better job and gives notice 6 months or a year down the road.

I would also reiterate that obtaining a 4 year + degree also involves a significant amount of 'lost opportunity cost' i.e. thousands of hours spent studying instead of working and earning money at a 'lesser' occupation. Even if the out of pocket tuition costs and student debt to obtain a 4 year + degree can be reasonably kept under control, ultimately there is an additional $100k or whatever 'lost opportunity cost' to be paid i.e. money that could have been earned working at a 'lesser' occupation instead of studying but wasn't. This is of particular importance to exotic dancers, because their 'lesser' occupation may represent $200k or $300k in 'lost opportunity cost' had they worked as full time dancers instead of working 1-2 shifts a week as students over the 4+ years spent attending college.

In the most simplistic terms, this means that between tuition costs and 'lost opportunity' costs, an ex exotic dancer 4 year college graduate would need to net an additional $10k a year in after tax income every year for her 40 year working age career in order to 'break even'. In less simplistic terms, if an exotid dancer had managed to invest $100k of the $200-$300k in additional full time dancing earnings in, say, a 5% tax free muni bond, then the interest earnings from that muni bond would move the 'break even' point up to an additional $15k per year in after tax income ( which may also equal an extra $25k per year in PRE tax income ). Arguably, at that point, the total 'costs' associated with an exotic dancer passing up full time dancing in order to obtain a 4 year degree may NEVER result in her reaching a 'break even' point !!!



High earning degrees-accounting, engineering, computer science, quantitative business/info sciences, chemistry, and certain scientific degrees (geology, for example).

Decent earning degrees-finance, nursing, math, HR, some other science degrees, sometimes education, some various other business degrees

^^^ again, these earnings levels are based on degrees earned a number of years in the past ... as well as job offers made and accepted in the past. This isn't to say that the earnings levels aren't there for current workers holding such degrees. However, it does NOT speak to the number of future US job openings or future earnings levels that will be available to new graduates 4 years down the road.

This is a particularly worrysome point given that a 'second wave' of 'professional' outsourcing is getting underway involving engineering, computer science, law, accounting etc. The business model for 'professional' outsourcing seems to be retaining a high profile 'front office' in the USA for US customer interface ( i.e. a relative handful of Ivy League graduates ), but with 'back office' research, design, prototyping, number crunching etc. being outsourced to foreign workers with 4 year, masters, or PhD credentials in India or China ( who are more than happy to work for $25k-$35k-$50k a year i.e. 1/3rd the 'cost' of US graduates ). A recent example would be California's Golden Gate bridge improvements ... where a probable 3/4ths of the actual nitty gritty engineering work is actually being performed in China.

~

Zinaida
06-28-2011, 01:03 AM
know what else has skyrocketed?...a stripper's HOUSE FEES and the money that is siphoned from stripper's earnings as well as costs for professional stripper gear and stripper heels

Not all club fees and cuts are high, I've worked at some recently that had low bases and took $0 from dances. I've actually never worked at a strip club that had ridiculous fees and/or cuts. Also, is stripper gear really all that expensive? I have never spent more than $50 on shoes and each pair lasted me for months. Unless you're getting super fancy and/or tons clothing(which is pretty damn unnecessary to me) it should be pretty inexpensive.

I see so many strippers(to be fair I see it in a lot of professions) that put so much of what they make back into stripping; hundreds of dollars worth of prestige cosmetics, tons of expensive(overpriced IMO) outfits, 8 pairs of heels.... I have never found 'being a stripper' to be all that expensive.


that the amount invested in a stripping career -- for licenses, stripper gear, pole dancing classes, etc --

I've only worked in two areas that required licenses, and although maintaining one of those licenses is pretty costly it's still say the price of one shift's earnings. Pole dance lessons are nowhere near necessary and like I mentioned before, stripper gear does not have to be anywhere near costly.

Kylea2
06-28-2011, 02:07 AM
This doesn't really "add" anything to the discussion that is note worthy, but rather humorous.

I went the the Renaissance Festival this weekend & overheard one some guy trying to hit on one of the food server employees. He was telling her that she was too pretty & too smart to be working there... sound familiar? LOL Then he wanted to know what she made. Her response was:


"I make $8/hr here, & the only reason I'm here is because after graduated with a bachelors degree in [time period I didn't catch] history, this was apparently the only job I was qualified for in the 2 years since my graduation."

I have to tell you, she made me laugh, but at the same time I felt sick to my stomach thinking of how much she probably paid for that degree & knowing that her new $8/hr job was only temporary. Ugh... :'(

NickT
06-28-2011, 11:25 AM
^ By itself, a BA degree in a field like history, English, philosophy, literature, etc. is just a generic college degree. Those degrees are stepping stones to other degrees like Masters, PhD or teaching. Very few jobs are going to have a requirement for a BS in history. That doesn't mean it's worthless, but it does mean you shouldn't pay an outrageous price for a history BA.

This from a recent Bureau of Labor and Statistics report (http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea05.htm) showing the unemployment percentages relative to the level of education:

Less than high school diploma: 14.7%
High school grad: 9.5%
Some college or AA degree: 8.0%
Bachelor's or higher degree: 4.5%

You can see that the more educated person is more likely to be employed. A HS grad will likely be unemployed more and longer than someone with a college degree.

goddesskali
06-28-2011, 01:27 PM
"Circling back to the point of the original article and some basic facts about the exotic dancing industry, this boils down to ...

- the 'death' of the old paradigm that a college degree will guarantee a good job / financial success

- student loan debt is 'forever' ... and can act as an 'albatross' around a college graduate's neck for decades

- a college degree can be earned at age 22 or 32 or 42 or for that matter 52, while the 'peak earnings potential' of exotic dancers is much more restricted age and energy wise.

- effort diverted away from high earning work opportunities toward non-paying college study carries a significant 'lost opportunity cost' ... however, this 'lost opportunity cost' is often ignored. Or put another way, the $60k tuition cost of obtaining a bachelor's degree from a state college is actually in addition to perhaps $100k+ in 'lost opportunity cost' re additional money that could have been earned via serious full time dancing during the same time period but wasn't.

Again I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from attending college. However, I AM trying to point out that in today's poor economy a thorough cost / benefit analysis should be conducted - which includes both out of pocket costs plus 'lost opportunity cost'."

I know I certainly wouldn't have been dancing or currently escorting if a college degree guaranteed finding a good job. I'm still paying off my debts from a 40k per yr school. I've pared it down, but it took a really long time to get there. There are days when I think, "why the hell did I go to college?" In new york, you need a degree to work a crappy 20k per year job...only to be laid off later. People in my age group (25-35 y/o) were given a crappy deal. A year after I graduated from high school, the economy took a big hit thanks to 9/11. Its been downhill since.
This thread is depressing me, lol.

I think it boils down to what you actually do with your money as opposed to how you acquired it. Unfortunately, most sex work has a expiration date.

Melonie
06-28-2011, 02:30 PM
unemployment percentages relative to the level of education:

Less than high school diploma: 14.7%
High school grad: 9.5%
Some college or AA degree: 8.0%
Bachelor's or higher degree: 4.5%


In new york, you need a degree to work a crappy 20k per year job...only to be laid off later.

In yet one more example of 'official' unemployment statistics not reflecting reality, it should be pointed out that recent college graduates who were not able to find a job in their chosen field, and who elected NOT to accept a $20k a year job as an inferior substitute, are NOT counted as being officially unemployed !!!

shift_6x
07-01-2011, 06:52 PM
My current opinion: The student loan debt is not worth it. I am in no debt currently I will finish my last few classes and no continuation for bachelors at this point. Maybe n the future but not anytime soon. Student loan debt hell isnt worth it.

kthnx
07-01-2011, 09:50 PM
I have to take exception though with your concept that exotic dancing involves any significant amount of investment. With a college degree, the student must invest tens of thousands of dollars and years worth of full time effort before they are able to 'cash in' in their investment after graduation. Exotic dancers can 'cash in' the very next night after they get their dancer's license and buy a couple of stripper outfits. Also there is no 'lost opportunity cost' ( i.e. college students being forced to either work and earn money or study and not earn money ) for exotic dancers.

True to an extent. A guy I used to be good friends with told me bout his friend (I met her once or twice) who was a stripper for a lil while. He kept saying how he always told her he felt stripping was keeping her in "arrested development" and that she should invest less time taking on shifts for the club and more looking for a strait job utilizing her degree on the side of stripping. The. Again this girl already had a lucrative degree (math & science) and a rather unlucrative stripclub job consisting of an on-the-business-decline dive bar where she didn't make as much as what most strippers on here would consider "good money". So for her the stripping didn't pay any more than a "vanilla" waitressing or bartending gig would, yet it had a stigma that prevented her from being able to really use it on resumes for strait jobs (thus making it falsely appear that she had an employment gap). And also, as many of us know the longer it's been since graduation, the harder it gets to secure a job in that field (employers don't exactly <3 employment gaps). This girl was ok with stripping since it meant a way to pay bills for her tiny ghetto apartment but was never really big on it or the stripper "lifestyle". So in some instances stripping CAN mean time taken away from finding a job that one might find to be more interesting and/or financially lucrative.

Melonie
07-01-2011, 11:01 PM
^^^ that anecdote is a real world example of the 'flip side' I spoke of earlier ... where receiving a degree ( in math & science, in this case ) can actually serve as an obstacle to obtaining a 'straight' job in an unrelated field. I would also point out that this particular dancer was clearly not treating exotic dancing as a 'serious professional' career if she was content to stay working at a low earnings potential 'dive bar'.

kthnx
07-02-2011, 07:32 AM
Possibly but she was also in a city that wasnt very lucrative for dancing and she didn't have the type of look that could get her into a better club. I don't think she was necessarily content with it, esp knowing that even most students were making more at there little-above min wage work study jobs than she made half the time on day shift, I think she just had bad self esteem and thought this was the best she could do. True she had trouble finding a job with her degree at first, thus turning to dancing, but my friends argument was that if she waitressed shed likely make the same or better money and atleast she wouldn't have a big gaping hole in her employment sinse college (becuz let's be realistic, admiting to a professional strait job that u danced for a yr after college isn't going to help get u the job, sinse dancing holds an unfortunate stigma)...which would make it easier to find a strait job. Eventually she did just that and did end up finding a collegiate strait job that paid a lil more than dancing but had benefits included like group health ins.

Bottom line, stripping isn't for everyone. Some people just arent cut out to be good strippers, lookswize, hustle/sales skillswise, etc. For them stripping full time 'round the clock to try and salvage some money for bills (as djoser described the ugliest girls at his club doing, they work dayshift and if they don't make any money they stay the whole 14hrs the club is open, into the late nite) holds them back from Persuing jobs that would be better for them.

Not everyone's best life plan consists of bein a stripper, just like not everyone's best life plan is to go to college. In general I feel that if ur not tip top enough to gt into an in demand ivy league school, or get a nearly full scholarship from a "regular"'college, then ur gonna end up taking on tons of school debt just to end up bein a little fish in a big pond when u graduate. So I agree with what u said about ivy leaguers and people who have more to offer than just a degree having a definit edge. But bottom line, not everyone is decent stripper material and not everyone is tip top scholar material either

Melonie
07-02-2011, 11:57 PM
In general I feel that if ur not tip top enough to gt into an in demand ivy league school, or get a nearly full scholarship from a "regular"'college, then ur gonna end up taking on tons of school debt just to end up bein a little fish in a big pond when u graduate. So I agree with what u said about ivy leaguers and people who have more to offer than just a degree having a definit edge. But bottom line, not everyone is decent stripper material and not everyone is tip top scholar material either

We're in complete agreement on both issues !!!

The sad future possibility is unfortunately this ...

Through the earlier 00's the ( debt driven ) US economy was strong enough to allow both exotic dancers with 'less than outstanding' attributes, and college graduates with 'less than outstanding' credentials, to participate reasonably well. However, going forward, both will face stiff headwinds as the remaining US market demand expects more and more 'bang for the buck' from the 'less than outstanding' market supply. In both cases they are likely to face stiff 'foreign' competition ... whether that 'foreign' competition takes the form of stereotypical eastern european dancers offering 'extras' to US club customers at comparatively low prices, or US 'straight' professional jobs being outsourced to Asia or taken by low priced H1B foreign 'immigrant' professional workers.

Zinaida
07-03-2011, 12:08 AM
Hehe that's a good comparison.

Melonie
07-03-2011, 12:29 AM
^^^ 'good' isn't exactly the word for this unfortunate situation, but it is 'accurate'.

However, the comparison does NOT apply to a different aspect of exotic dancing versus obtaining a college degree. As you are well aware, the amount of time and money 'investment' required to prepare for a lucrative career in exotic dancing ... even if it includes breast implants and a workout regimen ... is still on the order of a few months and less than $10k in cost. In comparison, the amount of time and money 'investment' required to obtain a college degree is on the order of 2-4 years and tens of thousands of dollars ( sometimes into 6 figures ) in tuition cost. Thus going for a college degree constitutes a far larger 'gamble' and a far greater 'loss' if the eventual result doesn't turn out anywhere near as well as first envisioned !!!

Krill_
07-05-2011, 11:49 AM
Interesting discussion on Reddit today that's pertinent to this thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ih7uz/reddit_do_you_feel_that_society_discourages/

Reddit, do you feel that society discourages "education for the sake of education" and is instead too focused on education for the sole purpose of getting a job?

(top comment)


I think it's the opposite.

Too many people are forceably indoctrinated using a one-fits-all approach.

Being educated is a great thing, however, too many people are being told that they have to receive a certain kind of education over the one that is best for them.

Is it better if someone learns how to frame a house when they can use it to make money? Or spend a semester learning Native American history?

Sorry, little Bobby isn't going to be a Geneticist. He's got the skills to be an electrician or carpenter though.

"HELL NO, little bobby is going to college! He's going to be a genius. He must go to college or he's going to be unsuccessful in life!"

So Bobby goes into debt learning how to be a Geneticist, but decides that it's not going to happen. Now he's got a pile of debt and no direction.

I think we as a people need to start putting A LOT more time, money, and effort into developing really good vocational schools. Not just the places where "the dumb kids go" in the afternoons, as it went in my high school.

The funny thing is, some of these "dumb kids" became welders, contractors, and mechanics that are making a lot more than some of their college bound counterparts that spent a great deal of money on a degree that sits on the shelf while they're waiting tables or whatever.

We need to stop pushing the thought that everyone needs to go to college, or the thought that everyone deserves to go to college.

Edit: I think every child deserves the change to go to college. Some just will never make it. They need a viable alternative than the ones we have now.

Zinaida
07-12-2011, 05:33 PM
http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/113010/degree-not-worth-debt-cnnmoney

Jessie_tinydancer
07-13-2011, 12:09 AM
I have a slightly different spin to the above article Zinaida posted...

I had a $33k debt after my first degree (education must be much cheaper in Canada)
My degree was in Sports and Recreation Management (4 years)
My starting salary after grad was $45k, in 2 years Id had 2 promotions and was on $72K + 9% for my retirement at age 23 or 24 (cant quite remember). Id paid down $10k of my loan by then.

Now Im in 2nd year of my Vet degree which is 5 years. I have not borrowed any money at all thanks to stripping. Although I have not been able to pay my old loan down further so Ill continue paying interest on it which since its in Canada I think its like 2% or something crazy cheap like that. If I stay in Australia Ill probably be on a shitty salary as a first year vet, but I plan to own my own practice within 10 years which will put me in $200k+ range. If I move back to canada I would be able to earn a much higher salary as a veterinarian employed by someone else, but would still open my practice down the track or specialise. Considering I wont be increasing my debts thanks to stripping... I still consider education a good investment in my experience.

Jessie_tinydancer
07-13-2011, 12:12 AM
^ oh and the thing I wanted to add to that... My car cost me $45K... it will probably last me 10 years if Im lucky... my degrees will add up to 80k... but Ill have them forever and nothing can take them away.

Melonie
07-13-2011, 12:36 AM
^^^ congrats, and glad to hear that things are working out very well for you !!! However, you must admit that your situation is somewhat 'unique' compared to other people now facing the decision to obtain a college degree, because ...

- you already obtained a 4 year degree several years ago, and were able to begin 'cashing in' on it at a time when the economy / employment picture was better than it is today

- your student loan balance does not include the total costs of your education ( thanks to stripping income being used to offset some portion of college costs ) PLUS your student loan interest rate is FAR below market ( i.e. 2% versus 7% )

Otoki
08-01-2011, 09:04 AM
I think a college education, whether at a cc or a 4 yr university, can be a fabulous investment IF you're smart about it (and if it's even relevant for your life goals and career path).

When I got accepted to my applied colleges I went with our state university because it was affordable but had TONS of interesting programs. I graduated without debt thanks to stripping, but if I hadn't danced I would have had about $40,000 of debt assuming I got no financial aid. In reality I applied for FA for my last year and it covered 8000 of my tuition that year, so the figure would be closer to 32000.

I'm now planning on going back to school for biology (or at least starting off in bio and branching off to something more specific) next fall. I'm going to go to a community college for the first two years, and finish out a BS at my alma mater university for another 3-4 semesters. The total cost will be 24,000-30,000 including books, again assuming that I get no financial aid.

Going to a cc for the first couple years of a degree is a really great idea if that's available in your area of study. The four semesters at the cc will cost me less than 8000. Four semesters at the university would cost me 22000. That's $14,000 I won't have to save up for tuition, or $14,000 I won't have to get a loan for (and pay off with interest).

Everyone's circumstances are different, and this economy has completely fucked a lot of college students. However, if you are smart about how you finance your education you can get a degree for a lot less money than a lot of people seem to think. That ivy league school isn't going to matter a whit if you aren't going to get a job from it that pays enough to justify the loans. If you're in a discipline which is likely to be dependent on networking, prestige and name-dropping, it's probably worth it. If you're in a discipline in which your grades, internship, and experience will matter more, don't worry about the name brand.

I'm choosing to finish my BS at the U rather than the cheaper Metro State because the U is a really great research university (in the sciences and otherwise) and thus will be more helpful for finding internships and jobs after graduation. Thus my decision to spend an extra 14grand or so for my last two years of school:) I could also finish my BS at one of the private universities for 30-40 grand a year, but that doesn't make sense to me based on my cost-benefit analysis for my situation.

Melonie
08-01-2011, 09:16 AM
The four semesters at the cc will cost me less than 8000. Four semesters at the university would cost me 22000. That's $14,000 I won't have to save up for tuition, or $14,000 I won't have to get a loan for

This is absolutely true. However, it is ONLY true if you follow through in getting the 4 year degree from a well accredited and well accepted University. As posted earlier, a 2 year Community College degree, in and of itself, isn't worth much these days.



I'm going to go to a community college for the first two years, and finish out a BS at my alma mater university for another 3-4 semesters. The total cost will be 24,000-30,000 including books

That's also true on the face of it. But the actual 'cost' is far higher. For example, I assume that you are going to continue dancing perhaps 2 nights a week for those four years and in the process earning perhaps $200 a night * 2 nights * 200 weeks ( 4 years ) = $ 80,000 . If you weren't pursuing another college degree, and instead devoted your efforts as a 'serious professional dancer', over the same 4 year period dancing 5 nights a week you could have earned $200 a night * 5 nights * 200 weeks = $ 200,000 !!! So pursuing another 4 year degree also involves some $120,000 in 'lost opportunity cost' in addition to the $30,000 in direct tuition cost.

Otoki
08-01-2011, 09:33 AM
This is absolutely true. However, it is ONLY true if you follow through in getting the 4 year degree from a well accredited and well accepted University. As posted earlier, a 2 year Community College degree, in and of itself, isn't worth much these days.
Yes. My point is about getting a four year degree (and actually completing it), rather than bringing up cc AA's as a comparable alternative to a BA/BS.


That's also true on the face of it. But the actual 'cost' is far higher. For example, I assume that you are going to continue dancing perhaps 2 nights a week for those four years and in the process earning perhaps $200 a night * 2 nights * 200 weeks ( 4 years ) = $ 80,000 . If you weren't pursuing another college degree, and instead devoted your efforts as a 'serious professional dancer', over the same 4 year period dancing 5 nights a week you could have earned $200 a night * 5 nights * 200 weeks = $ 200,000 !!! So pursuing another 4 year degree also involves some $120,000 in 'lost opportunity cost' in addition to the $30,000 in direct tuition cost.
That's assuming that I WANT to dance 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. I understand that you come from the "make the most of it financially" camp, but I come from the "make the most of it financially and emotionally" camp. For me, working 6-12 days a month nets me 3-10grand, and because my overhead is pretty low and my savings goals are specific, this allows me to max out my IRA, save up for the downpayment on a house, save up for medical and vet bills, etc etc. I have no desire to work full-time because much of the value I get from stripping (besides the money) is the ability to pursue other things I enjoy, like reading, time with my friends and family, traveling, crafting, etc.

While I think your "build your nest-egg" advice is good, implying that not stripping full-time is somehow less "professional" or "wasted" value is, in my opinion, dismissing the other definitions of "value" that many of us hold. Looking at life in a strictly economic/fiscal manner means over-simplifying and misunderstanding the data (because money isn't the only value people use to "measure" different decisions). There are definitely parts of this thread in which I feel you are looking at things in a strictly fiscal way rather than taking into account the other non-fiscal values and decisions people make.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a waste to dance part time because that's all you need to do to live bill to bill if you don't have anything else occupying your time. Dancing is a tremendous financial opportunity to work comparatively few hours while saving money (or, in my case, saving less money than I would have if I hadn't been paying tuition, but at least not having debt). I'm a very money-focused person in that I enjoy spending it on a few small frivolities (the occasional dinner, books, etc) and saving as much as I can otherwise, but for me (and I think a lot of focused, financially savvy dancers) I'm happiest and most fulfilled when I am building a small nest-egg and enjoying plenty of time for the other things I enjoy. I don't think that attitude, nor the attitude that a small amount of debt is worth a job you're going to love (even if it doesn't pay a lot), should be dismissed just because it doesn't happen to be the one you subscribe to for your own life:)