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Jessie_tinydancer
05-02-2011, 05:49 PM
I remember how, immediately after the Twin Towers fell on 9-11, we saw clips of Muslims in some parts of the world celebrating - and this made us so angry that we lusted for revenge like never before. I don't think I've ever felt so much hate and repulsion towards a group before that day (not Muslims generally, but specifically, U.S.-hating Muslims).

I think - many muslims regard Osama as a martyr and watching us in the US celebrate his death will cause a similar revulsion and thirst for revenge - which will have the effect of continuing or escalating the cycle. If we want to continue the war, then we should celebrate in the streets, dance on top of the Koran, etc.

However, if we want to end this war and gain the upper moral ground, I think a more modest and mature reaction is appropriate.

Again, if a continuation/escalation of the sport of war is desired, then nevermind - carry on the festivities.

True but I dont think anybody was celebrating deaths of civilians in the US. We are taking about the head of a terrorist organisation. Im seeing comments on English-decent Aussies facebooks saying things like "what do you expect, American's believe in death penalty". Basically people who think Americans are tools and have no right to celebrate. Not people commenting on the possible escalations and retaliation. It just makes me angry because although I can shake my head sometimes at the shinanagans of America, I know its a diverse country with people from all walks of life and who do not all hold the same opinion. I lived only 8 hours drive from ground zero when it happened (in canada) and I was not surprised really, but I was still devastated to see the pain and suffering of so many people.

I just feel like some of the people here either never saw it fully or just can't remember because it was too long ago. I find it disrespectful that some Aussies would use this situation to spew anti-america bull shit. But that proves your point Jack. If it causes in Anger in Christian Aussies, then it will certainly rub salt in the wound of Al-Qaeda followers (I wouldnt generalise to muslims though... they are not one in the same. Most muslims have tried to separate themselves from that connection for a long time now).

Cheo_D
05-02-2011, 07:24 PM
Al-Asad is smack in the middle of the Sunnis territory and Al-Sader (Irans Shia puppet) doesn't have any more friends there, than the Israelis. The Israelis don't have any F-22s and I doubt they have a KC-10 extender which is a flying tanker/ expeditionary support air craft made from a DC- 10 wide body.

[...]

War planes are the size of city buses, you can't mistake them. Second they are thirsty, tempermental Divas and require a sizeable combat train of mechanics and technicians. This means it would be a few hundred Israelis on the ground in hostile territority.

Unlikely at best.

Unlikelihood has never dissuaded this sort of source:
from http://www.presstv.ir/detail/177824.html -- it's an IRANIAN site, fer cryin' out loud! (and good catch on the F22s - AFAIK Israel doesn't fly F18s either, just 15s and 16s; and their tankers are old 135s. They are just describing the inventory of the American airbase and calling it Israeli)

dreamer1980
05-02-2011, 07:47 PM
without proof of a body i still call bullshit.

it takes a few days to run dna tests and receive results. also, ive been researching islamic burial rights and they are supposed to be buried on land with their heads pointing towards mecca.

i think bin laden was killed looong time ago. why it was kept quite until now, i really dont know.

Raider
05-02-2011, 07:58 PM
without proof of a body i still call bullshit.

i think bin laden was killed looong time ago. why it was kept quite until now, i really dont know.


ok...so you think he was killed a long time ago and guess you assume his body was disposed of way back then after taking pictures and getting dna samples? And the people that disposed of his body after taking his picture with the hole in his head have kept quiet all this time? Or are you saying this picture was doctored? And everyone sat in the situation room watching this staged attack?

So...let's say he was blown up...this picture faked. Then we have navy seals run a fake mission risking their lives and fake bringing out his body? And they will all keep quiet? Then we have everyone on board faking disposing of his body at sea and they will all keep quiet?

Now I understand......::)

AngelKing
05-02-2011, 09:34 PM
He's not dead!

Cheo_D
05-03-2011, 05:36 AM
BTW re: Islamic burial, there IS a process for Islamic burial at sea, including performance of the rites of Ghusl and Kazan and the appropriate prayers, and the commentaries do say that one of the special cases justifying burial at sea (besides of course the death happening in the high seas), is if there is a risk of the grave/body being disturbed/desecrated. (BTW we DO have Muslim chaplains in our military to take care of such things).


But yeah, sure, nevermind, governments NEVER, ever, ever tell the truth and NOTHING is ever, ever proof enough . . .

phoenixxxrising
05-03-2011, 07:46 AM
without proof of a body i still call bullshit.

it takes a few days to run dna tests and receive results. also, ive been researching islamic burial rights and they are supposed to be buried on land with their heads pointing towards mecca.

i think bin laden was killed looong time ago. why it was kept quite until now, i really dont know.

you can actually run a DNA test in just a few hours. (with results) of course this option of expedited service isn't available to the general public.

firemaiden04
05-03-2011, 09:22 AM
^ Yeah, this isn't like an episode of Law and Order where the case gets put on hold for a few days while awaiting results. This is the American government. You better believe they can get this stuff done faster than lightning.

Jessie_tinydancer
05-03-2011, 09:00 PM
I heard they buried him at sea because they don't want somewhere where followers can build a physical shrine to him or memorial.

mediocrity
05-03-2011, 11:38 PM
The latest report I heard on CBC tonight is that he was unarmed when they shot him, and they ended up injuring a couple of his family members.

Sounds like war crimes to me.

Arialandre
05-04-2011, 03:45 PM
I'm pretty sure it's a smoke screen and he is going to pop up in 10 years working at Taco Bell

bem401
05-04-2011, 03:47 PM
The latest report I heard on CBC tonight is that he was unarmed when they shot him, and they ended up injuring a couple of his family members.

Sounds like war crimes to me.

I heard a rumor he was actually killed by his own people to avoid being captured.

rickdugan
05-04-2011, 04:59 PM
‎"I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."
-Martin Luther King Jr

Nice sentiment.

I'm guessing that you weren't in NYC when the planes struck. I was. My only regret is that he died a quick death from a head shot rather than bleeding out slowly and painfully.

ArmySGT.
05-04-2011, 05:16 PM
The latest report I heard on CBC tonight is that he was unarmed when they shot him, and they ended up injuring a couple of his family members.

Sounds like war crimes to me.


wow, I am very disappointed by this statement.

Arialandre
05-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Wow O_o

firemaiden04
05-04-2011, 07:35 PM
Yeah, I had two fairly close friends-of-the-family who were in the towers on 9/11. So I don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for the Osama situation. Some people just deserve to die. I guess I feel sorry for any innocents that were caught in the line of fire, but it happens, and I can't really say I don't think it was worth it. If I knew my husband was responsible for thousands upon thousands of murders, I don't really think I would stick around. I know that culturally, that probably wasn't an option for his family members, but I just can't make myself regret his death for those reasons. I think I regret his death because he probably could have suffered a lot more than he did, but that's about it.

nelly33
05-04-2011, 10:52 PM
Some people deserve to die, but who gets to make that choice? If you are a family or Iraqi's, and you had members of your family killed by American bombings, then you probably think Bush deserves to die. And you wouldn't have a whole lot of sympathy for the soldiers that killed your family either.
I was and still am for the killing of Osama. I also think President Bush tried to act as morally as possible. The point is perspective is in order. Also, I am against torture no matter who or what. For one thing, it lowers you to a level equal to those you are torturing. And secondly, then if a culture that hates us and thinks we did wrong captures an American, they are more likely to torture that person. Torturing Osama would further rile up anti-American sentiments, and those who were not Muslim extremists might be swayed by the ungodly act of torture.
Vengeance is ugly. We killed him because he was a threat to this country, and because an act of terrorism was committed by him. Game over for Osama.

mediocrity
05-04-2011, 11:02 PM
I'm not saying I sympathize with the man, or that what he did in his lifetime. Terrorism has existed as long as people have existed- doesn't make right, but it makes it a fact of life.

My position is that the American government has gone about this whole project entirely the wrong way. I know at least in my country, that's a common belief. I don't want to give off the impression that I am anti-military; my father was in the Royal Forces for twenty years. There's a right way and a wrong way to go about things, and the way this "war on terror" has gone, it's been largely the wrong way.

michele11
05-05-2011, 07:33 AM
He died of kidney failure years ago. I mean there hasn't been a single sighting of him in over 10 years! Only audio released tapes that they couldn't even authenticate to be him. He hid out in caves for over ten years with kidney disease and failure but all of a sudden he's living in a compound and he was unarmed but had a woman shield on top of him. Lmao. Five people were shot but the staged pictures of the compound there is like hardly any blood. Oh and they suppposedly identified him by the d.n.a. of his dead sisters brain, what about using the dna of his wife and daughter they allegedly captured. There have been reports he's been dead for years. Sorry it doesn't add up!

Trem
05-05-2011, 07:39 AM
I think it is utterly ridiculous people still believe anyone can lie about things like this. Do you honestly think this is just some clever made up lie? do you realize how many thousands of people would need to go along with this and keep their mouths shut in order to pull something like that off? You really rather believe something you think is true based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever?

bem401
05-05-2011, 08:26 AM
The problem is they keep changing the story like they're looking for the one that works best. That alone raises suspicions regardless of the party doing it..

michele11
05-05-2011, 08:36 AM
^ Yeah because the government is just so truthful. Even all the arabics I know think he died of renal failure years ago. You can't live without medical care for 10 years in caves in the condition he was in. He looked like he was on deaths bed 10 years ago with his cane and frail nature. Why didn't they just capture him like they did sudam hussein and bring to the U.S. and try him. I mean he was unarmed for crying out loud.

Trem
05-05-2011, 08:52 AM
"The government" isn't one person, it doesn't have one mind. What you are suggesting is a multi national cover up of thousands of people of all ideologies and many different countries. It is simply ridiculous that anyone can believe something like that could be done. And all for what? to lie about when Osama died? If he had died of renal failure years ago you better believe we would have known because Bush would look a lot less inept if the guy was dead rather than avoiding capture.

bem401
05-05-2011, 09:43 AM
^^^^^^So a guy no one's seen for years and years is supposedly killed by an administration initially opposed to our involvement in that part of the world and that administration wants us to believe them when they have no body or pictures to show us and have contradictory and ever-changing versions of what happened and you don't see a problem with that?

Trem
05-05-2011, 09:47 AM
I have seen no contradictory versions of anything other than what the press chooses to report. The press reports RUMORS because they had to say something even when they have no info, obviously their story is going to change because they weren't reporting facts in the first place. Who told you Obama was opposed to our involvement there? in fact during the election campaign both candidates were asked if they would authorize a mission to pakistan to kill bin laden against the wishes of pakistan, Obama said yes and McCain said no and then bashed Obama for his answer. If we had a Republican president right now Osama would be alive and well.

firemaiden04
05-05-2011, 09:55 AM
Oh and they suppposedly identified him by the d.n.a. of his dead sisters brain, what about using the dna of his wife and daughter they allegedly captured. There have been reports he's been dead for years. Sorry it doesn't add up!

...why would Osama's DNA match his wife's DNA?

baldric
05-05-2011, 11:47 AM
^Very close family...

Trem
05-05-2011, 12:01 PM
And this is why O.J. walked free...

firemaiden04
05-05-2011, 02:03 PM
Is Osama's wife like his sister or first cousin or something? Cause unless the family has intermarried consistently, there's no real reason his wife's DNA would be so close to his that he could be identified by it.

michele11
05-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Yeah my bad I was half asleep when I posted but it was reported they used his dead sisters brain to verify d.na though they had his daughter in custody and shot two off his sons.

ArmySGT.
05-05-2011, 04:05 PM
Yeah my bad I was half asleep when I posted but it was reported they used his dead sisters brain to verify d.na though they had his daughter in custody and shot two off his sons.

Because his dead sister has the same parents. The match will be closer than one diluted by another unrelated generation.

Not to mention he has living relatives in the US to sample from too.

TinkerBall
05-05-2011, 04:54 PM
...why would Osama's DNA match his wife's DNA?
Maybe his daughter is also one of his many wives. So I guess all these Navy Seals must have unanimously decided to go along with this conspiracy. They must all be die hard Democrats. How do we even know how long he was in a cave? Someone has a very fertie imagination.;)

bem401
05-05-2011, 05:24 PM
I have seen no contradictory versions of anything other than what the press chooses to report. The press reports RUMORS because they had to say something even when they have no info, obviously their story is going to change because they weren't reporting facts in the first place. Who told you Obama was opposed to our involvement there? in fact during the election campaign both candidates were asked if they would authorize a mission to pakistan to kill bin laden against the wishes of pakistan, Obama said yes and McCain said no and then bashed Obama for his answer. If we had a Republican president right now Osama would be alive and well.

1. first Obama resisted then he didn't.
2. first Obama was armed then he wasn't
3. first Obama hid behind his wife then he didn't
4. first there was a firefight then there wasn't
5. first they watched the raid on TV then they didn't
6. first they're going to release the picture then they're not..
7. first enhanced interrogation was not utilized, now it was.

Some of these differences were reported in the press as coming from different members of the administration or prominent democratic lawmakers. When Obama spoke Sunday night, it was all me, me, me and I, I, I. The administration and its allies are out revealing details of the operation conducted by the SEAL's, a stealth unit. Now Obama wants to go rally support for himself at Ground Zero, where he has yet to visit since taking office (if ever) despite being in NYC for plays and fundraisers. He also wanted to conduct terrorism trials in the neighborhood, supports the construction of a mosque around the corner, and actually sent Air Force One to buzz NYC to get a picture. Even the two previous presidents apparently see him as egotistical as Trump since they both refused to participate today.

Oh, BTW, read this, from the Huffington Post of all sourrces:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/white-house-revises-bin-laden-final-moments_n_857073.html?ncid=wsc-huffpost-cards-headline

But you're right, no contradictions...


There is just a lot of stuff wrong with this picture.

Trem
05-05-2011, 07:07 PM
Once again, there were contradictions in what was reported in the press there have been no contradictions in any official reports. Like i tried to explain earlier the press has to report something even when they know absolutely nothing, they tend to make tons of mistakes. You see the exact same thing in every freaking big story, when it breaks almost everything that gets reported is wrong.

eagle2
05-05-2011, 08:14 PM
^^^^^^So a guy no one's seen for years and years is supposedly killed by an administration initially opposed to our involvement in that part of the world and that administration wants us to believe them when they have no body or pictures to show us and have contradictory and ever-changing versions of what happened and you don't see a problem with that?

Supposedly? Are you questioning that Osama bin Ladin was really killed?

Raider
05-05-2011, 08:19 PM
[quote=bem401;2109530

But you're right, no contradictions...


There is just a lot of stuff wrong with this picture.[/quote]
Guess I am missing something here...exactly what is your point or your conclusion? Still alive? Killed years ago? What point are you trying to make?

firemaiden04
05-05-2011, 08:36 PM
^ He's trying to make the point that there's no way Obama could have anything to do with this, because he thinks Obama is totally incompetent. Right-wingers like him refuse to credit Obama with anything, and they'd rather come up with wild conspiracy theories than admit he's accomplished anything.

eagle2
05-05-2011, 10:16 PM
1. first Obama resisted then he didn't.
2. first Obama was armed then he wasn't
3. first Obama hid behind his wife then he didn't


Obama?



4. first there was a firefight then there wasn't
5. first they watched the raid on TV then they didn't
6. first they're going to release the picture then they're not..
7. first enhanced interrogation was not utilized, now it was.

Some of these differences were reported in the press as coming from different members of the administration or prominent democratic lawmakers. When Obama spoke Sunday night, it was all me, me, me and I, I, I. The administration and its allies are out revealing details of the operation conducted by the SEAL's, a stealth unit. Now Obama wants to go rally support for himself at Ground Zero, where he has yet to visit since taking office (if ever) despite being in NYC for plays and fundraisers. He also wanted to conduct terrorism trials in the neighborhood, supports the construction of a mosque around the corner, and actually sent Air Force One to buzz NYC to get a picture. Even the two previous presidents apparently see him as egotistical as Trump since they both refused to participate today.

Oh, BTW, read this, from the Huffington Post of all sourrces:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/white-house-revises-bin-laden-final-moments_n_857073.html?ncid=wsc-huffpost-cards-headline

But you're right, no contradictions...


There is just a lot of stuff wrong with this picture.

All you are doing is nitpicking trivial, meaningless details to try to take away from President Obama's great accomplishment. The only things that matter are Osama bin Ladin is dead and none of our soldiers were killed. Practically everything you post is based on this irrational hatred you have towards the President.

Arialandre
05-06-2011, 12:08 AM
What. The fuck.

bem401
05-06-2011, 04:57 AM
Obama?



All you are doing is nitpicking trivial, meaningless details to try to take away from President Obama's great accomplishment. The only things that matter are Osama bin Ladin is dead and none of our soldiers were killed. Practically everything you post is based on this irrational hatred you have towards the President.

I'm just reporting the things you denied existed that were reported by different people on his "team". I believe Obama is dead but this President needed 16 hours to decide whether to launch the raid when told there was 99% certainty Bin Laden was there. The decision he made was hardly gutsy. It was the correct decision to make but it really was the only one he could make so calling it a "great accomplishment" by him is giving too much credit IMO..

The real problem is the way this is trying to be spun to portray him as some sort of military genius with special powers. They should have said " UBL's dead, no Americans were hurt, here's the proof, end of story", which by the way is exactly what you said in your post. Instead it is being used for photo ops and campaign fodder.

And I have no irrational hatred for the guy. I do the hate the direction in which he is taking the country.. He's driving this country right over the edge.

Raider
05-06-2011, 05:16 AM
I believe Obama is dead but this President needed 16 hours to decide whether to launch the raid when told there was 99% certainty Bin Laden was there.


First of all....OBAMA is alive and still our President. OSAMA on the other hand is dead.

Next my understanding is he was told there was a 50-80% of accurate intelligence. Where did you get your 99% making it an easy decision? The 99% mentioned was in reference to the certainty that at one time it was his hideout. Still using it? Left for some reason during the day??

I can understand frustration with Obama taking all the credit...there is alot of credit to go around....not only for the current operation but going back years and years with the gathering of intelligence.

If Obama wants to take all the credit for this then he must also take all the blame if another incident happens.

Your listing of all the contradictory reports seem to indicate you are suggesting something more than what you claim in your reply.

bem401
05-06-2011, 07:54 AM
First of all....OBAMA is alive and still our President. OSAMA on the other hand is dead.

Next my understanding is he was told there was a 50-80% of accurate intelligence. Where did you get your 99% making it an easy decision? The 99% mentioned was in reference to the certainty that at one time it was his hideout. Still using it? Left for some reason during the day??

I can understand frustration with Obama taking all the credit...there is alot of credit to go around....not only for the current operation but going back years and years with the gathering of intelligence.

If Obama wants to take all the credit for this then he must also take all the blame if another incident happens.

Your listing of all the contradictory reports seem to indicate you are suggesting something more than what you claim in your reply.

Obama-Osama..... I stand corrected. I should be more careful.. It's not intentional nor is it the first time I've made that error when typing.

I heard 99% on the radio last night.

My listing of contradictory reports was in response to a claim there hadn't been any. IMO, the story keeps changing in an apparent attempt to cultivate Obama as some sort of military icon as we enter the campaign season. His visit to Ground Zero is little more than a campaign stop/photo op for him. If he really cared about those people he'd have been there long ago.

Oh and by the way, his administration is still trying to cut funding for the military and intelligence agencies that actually did the work here and his AG is still investigating and looking to prosecute the military people who conducted the "enhanced interrogations".

Eric Stoner
05-06-2011, 08:32 AM
Obama?



All you are doing is nitpicking trivial, meaningless details to try to take away from President Obama's great accomplishment. The only things that matter are Osama bin Ladin is dead and none of our soldiers were killed. Practically everything you post is based on this irrational hatred you have towards the President.

Wait a minute ! Obama's "great accomplishment" ? What was so great about ANYTHING Obama did ? After dithering for 18 hours he gave the order. Who wouldn't ? The trail that led to Osama was discovered under Bush The Dumber. Info that led to the identification and tracking of Osama's couriers was developed under Bush and "enhanced interrogation". Techniques that Obama banned.

Yes, killing Osama was the right thing to do. One of the few things Obama has gotten right. And then what ? Obama and his team have been screwing up the aftermath. Their story keeps changing. You don't have to worry about changing the truth.

And why were we so respectful to his body ? After the Nuremberg defendants were hung, their bodies were cremated and ashes scattered. Same for Eichman. Why not smear it with pork fat and stuff his mouth with used toilet paper ? This is part of Obama's problem. He wants to be liked. He wants the U.S. to be liked. Isn't it much better that we be feared ? And respected ? We gave him a 40 minute burial service ? Basic respect MIGHT be one thing but why so much honor and consideration ?

After killing Osama, THEN Obama goes to Ground Zero for the first time ? And meets and speaks with 9/11 families for the First time ?

And what about the parts of the stealth copter the Seals left behind ? Obama seriously expects the Pakhis to send it back to us ? Instead of selling it to the Chinese ?

eagle2
05-06-2011, 08:45 AM
If you think that the only thing President Obama did over the past two years in finding/killing Osama bin Ladin was "give an order", you're completely clueless.

firemaiden04
05-06-2011, 09:01 AM
If Bush was in office when this happened, he would have received ten times the credit he was due. No one is claiming that this was all Obama's doing. Yes, he was involved, and yes, there were hundreds of other people involved, especially the people on the ground who actually completed the mission. But Obama is Commander in Chief, just like Bush was. That means he's at the top, and he's responsible for the situation, whichever way it goes. Luckily, this went well.

bem401
05-06-2011, 09:52 AM
If you think that the only thing President Obama did over the past two years in finding/killing Osama bin Ladin was "give an order", you're completely clueless.

Tell us what he did then. He apparently decided to use commandos rather than bombs to get him, I'll give you that.

If he was as integral to the operation as you seem to want to give him credit for, why did he need 16 hrs to sleep on it whether to go in when all evidence indicated UBL was there?

bem401
05-06-2011, 09:59 AM
If Bush was in office when this happened, he would have received ten times the credit he was due. No one is claiming that this was all Obama's doing. Yes, he was involved, and yes, there were hundreds of other people involved, especially the people on the ground who actually completed the mission. But Obama is Commander in Chief, just like Bush was. That means he's at the top, and he's responsible for the situation, whichever way it goes. Luckily, this went well.

IMO, Bush never would have politicized it to this extreme. Photo ops galore, speeches with me, me, me and I, I, I in them. Posing for pictures pretending to be watching the event, posing for other pictures that usually aren't allowed, finally going to Ground Zero. The blatant politicization of the fortunate outcome in this mission is just too much.

And if Bush had done the same, he'd deserve all the criticism I'm sure the Left would have been foaming at the mouth to give him.

Eric Stoner
05-06-2011, 10:21 AM
If you think that the only thing President Obama did over the past two years in finding/killing Osama bin Ladin was "give an order", you're completely clueless.

Oh no you don't ! Why don't you list ALL the things you claim Obama actually DID ?

I give Obama credit for sending in the Seals, instead of bombing, as the Pentagon wanted him to do. I'll also give him credit for being thoughtful and much less knee-jerk than his immediate predecessor. He deserves the benefit of the doubt on trying to make sure our intel was as accurate as possible. But other than that, what has he done ? He's the same guy who wants to cut the Defense and CIA budgets by 40%.

Eric Stoner
05-06-2011, 10:24 AM
If Bush was in office when this happened, he would have received ten times the credit he was due. No one is claiming that this was all Obama's doing. Yes, he was involved, and yes, there were hundreds of other people involved, especially the people on the ground who actually completed the mission. But Obama is Commander in Chief, just like Bush was. That means he's at the top, and he's responsible for the situation, whichever way it goes. Luckily, this went well.

From Fox News and talk radio , Yes. But NOT from the rest of the lamestream media.

Presidents traditionally get too much blame when things go wrong and too much credit when things go right.

Eric Stoner
05-06-2011, 10:30 AM
IMO, Bush never would have politicized it to this extreme. Photo ops galore, speeches with me, me, me and I, I, I in them. Posing for pictures pretending to be watching the event, posing for other pictures that usually aren't allowed, finally going to Ground Zero. The blatant politicization of the fortunate outcome in this mission is just too much.

And if Bush had done the same, he'd deserve all the criticism I'm sure the Left would have been foaming at the mouth to give him.

Bush and even Der Slickmeister displayed class and good grace by DECLINING Obama's invitation to join him at Ground Zero.