View Full Version : Everything's Perfect BUT He's Cheap...
Kellydancer
05-15-2011, 04:30 PM
OMG that would be so horribly depressing, why in the world would a guy with a good job, education, home who travels the world not want to take his wife out to a nice dinner? That's just too bizarre, we don't live in small town usa we live in a place packed with awesome restaurants and entertainment. It's actually harder to stay at home and cook for yourself, you really have to go out of your way to be as cheap as he's been.
I don't bust my ass daily at the gym and do all of the things one does to stay beautiful to land a dude that wants to scrimp and save, no thank you!
I have to ask but are you basically using your looks to land a man? I'm not saying that is bad for you but as I get older I realize looks aren't everything for both me and a guy. Almost sounds like you want to get a guy because you are beautiful and he has money. If that is the case then I would suggest an older man with money. If you want a relationship that leads to marriage (this is what I want)I am finding that looks matter little in this case.
You mention a wife, but you're not his wife or even a girlfriend yet, right? My experience has been that guys (at least the ones I dated) treated me differently as we got serious. Sure, they wanted to impress me in the beginning but I didn't meet them online so there wasn't other competition.
I'm not judging you, I just wonder what you are looking for. I've been where you are so I understand completely.
Camateur
05-15-2011, 04:51 PM
I have to ask but are you basically using your looks to land a man? I'm not saying that is bad for you but as I get older I realize looks aren't everything for both me and a guy. Almost sounds like you want to get a guy because you are beautiful and he has money. If that is the case then I would suggest an older man with money. If you want a relationship that leads to marriage (this is what I want)I am finding that looks matter little in this case.
You mention a wife, but you're not his wife or even a girlfriend yet, right? My experience has been that guys (at least the ones I dated) treated me differently as we got serious. Sure, they wanted to impress me in the beginning but I didn't meet them online so there wasn't other competition.
I'm not judging you, I just wonder what you are looking for. I've been where you are so I understand completely.
Regarding the wife comment it was in reference to the reply that said "after you guys are married he won't take you out.." The guy's in his late 30's and no I'm not using ONLY looks but my thinking is why as a youngish nice looking girl do I want to hook up with someone whose idea of a good evening is what I described above-I try HARD (my career, keeping my body tight etc) how's he showing he tries?
Kellydancer
05-15-2011, 05:09 PM
How old are you? I ask because many men that age are that way. Honestly, what I would do is look for a guy with money if you are younger. Very superficial, but I can't imagine myself dating a much older man. If you are around his age then this is another story.
Camateur
05-15-2011, 05:31 PM
How old are you? I ask because many men that age are that way. Honestly, what I would do is look for a guy with money if you are younger. Very superficial, but I can't imagine myself dating a much older man. If you are around his age then this is another story.
Early 30's, you're saying look for an even older guy? He has some money, I mean you can be very middle class and still afford restaurants like Ruth's Chris etc..
Kellydancer
05-15-2011, 05:38 PM
Early 30's, you're saying look for an even older guy? He has some money, I mean you can be very middle class and still afford restaurants like Ruth's Chris etc..
Ah ok I misunderstood. I thought you were early 20's. Early 30's does make a difference. Does he have kids or anything like that? Those cost money (and I avoid dads because of it). I personally would give him a chance but then again I am cheap myself.
Camateur
05-15-2011, 05:51 PM
Ah ok I misunderstood. I thought you were early 20's. Early 30's does make a difference. Does he have kids or anything like that? Those cost money (and I avoid dads because of it). I personally would give him a chance but then again I am cheap myself.
Nope no kids, no prior marriages, he even bragged about how low his mortgage payment is; so I know he's fine. You've got a point about the single dads thing; I won't drop him just yet, I will see what/if he proposes a decent third date. I will not go to his house again!
tampadancer
05-15-2011, 07:47 PM
Ah ok I misunderstood. I thought you were early 20's. Early 30's does make a difference. Does he have kids or anything like that? Those cost money (and I avoid dads because of it). I personally would give him a chance but then again I am cheap myself.
Not to threadjack, but I think single dads aren't so bad... depending on what you are looking for. I feel like if you are the type of woman who needs your man's full attention and would be jealous having to "share" him with his kids, then dating a man with kids is probably a bad idea. But if you're independent and like to do your own thing, what's the big deal? I dated a guy pretty seriously in the past, and I kind of liked when he went off and did daddy things with his kids. It gave me extra space and alone time, which are things I highly value. And sure, kids cost money... but this should only be an issue if you're looking for a man to support you, you know?
Having kids changes men. They are often more sensitive and mature, ime. While I don't want any freaking kids of my own, I don't rule out dating a guy with kids (as long as they aren't little hellions...that's a completely different situation!).
To the OP - I think this guy sounds lazy, personally. He doesn't have to spend a ton of cash on you, regardless of whether or not he has it, to court you. If he's this lazy off the bat, what would he be like down the road, in a relationship?
Optimist
05-15-2011, 07:56 PM
This is interesting, I thought I read it wrong the first time; is this really something that I should do? It seems like the fast track to being used. Are you saying the tingling is fear that is trying to keep me out of a relationship with an otherwise good guy? Expound on this please.
If you have to post this thread you're not really ready for us to tell you "no, don't see him, run for the hills girl!" It means you really have to explore what you want and stick to it and learn to ask for it and discard a dude who can't/won't step up. If you like the low maintenance thing but feel you must ask for more (because of societal pressure, peer pressure, or whatever) this is the time to see that maybe you are turned on by the low maintenance thing.
Check this site out to see if you relate to it. www.baggagereclaim.com (http://www.baggagereclaim.com) It has info on how to judge compatibility with a guy. It's all about your shared values and his selfish thing may actually be attractive to you. If you're a frugal gal who wants to be with a somewhat self-serving agenda setting guy, this guy could be someone to date. Some women want a man to be a bit selfish. I don't recommend it for the long term but I know it can be fulfilling and instructive while you learn from him how to set your own agenda. For instance, I was with a workaholic but I admired his gumption. I learned a ton from him about taking charge of my life. Didn't work between us in the long term but that's OK. Relationships are for learning not just fucking and companionship. So, as crazy as it sounds, as long as he's not a mental case narcissist it should be fairly harmless to date him a bit and question what emotions good and unpleasant that he brings up in you. Then use that information.
Also check out Why Men Love Bitches by Sherry Argov. Great overview of how to communicate with dudes non-verbally.
Redwolf
05-15-2011, 07:58 PM
Tell him that you have a hot, new dress that you would like to wear for the next date and that you should go somewhere nice. Maybe include dancing.
cherryblossomsinspring
05-15-2011, 08:23 PM
Sorry this guy is in his late 30's? Owns a home? No he's being cheap, but he needs to enjoy CNN ALONE!
I don't think you should give him much attention. I say act busy. Also how do you know he's not trying to date other people as well? I mean he;s in his late 30's , doesn't cook, never been married but you thought this was a great idea to half -ass cook a meal for a date?
He acts like he's been living underground for the last 10 years. Sorry but he needs to go back to the site and try again. If you truly feel you're better looking then him then yes ditch this guy. He's not worth it. I think he's playing on the emotions that most women possess. A sweet cozy atmosphere, alot of talking, a home made half ass meal. Seems cozy right? But this is what you would do when you've been together for a few months, not on date 2. Also he would have had sex with you if you didn't tell him to stop. What does that say about how he views you? Wow I just fixed her a meal under $3.00 and I'm going to get laid too?
I mean he forgot ingredients? No he probably felt extras were too much to add. Don't feel sorry for him or think aww he so cute because he tried. He didn't try he was lazy.
I say go with Redwolf's idea... Tell him about this dress etc, bring up a restaurant and see what he does. Just be sure to have your own money just in case he comes up broke after you finish your meal. If he does. I would pay for my portion and walk out ALONE. Say something like ooh it's late I have to go. Have a big....blah blah blah in the morning. Do not go back to his place for atleast 7 more dates. I mean what ever happened to taking a lady out to a movie, museum, art exhibit. I mean there are inexpensive ways to have a good time. But CNN ? he can do so much better. If he has a computer and has access to the internet then he's really lazy , cheap and selfish.
LexyNYC
05-15-2011, 09:51 PM
Oh God. I thought the important ingredients missing were something deep and meaningful, not capers and butter. *facepalm*
Why would he even text you that? That's the most pointless text anybody can send. If you guys ever play scrabble and he loses, expect a text from him the next day going "I just realized I could have used that letter 'Q' and gotten triple points, oh well, how's your day going?"
Maybe he texted you that because he felt bad about the date and in retrospect, he thinks he could have done better than chicken and green beans for a gal like you. Possibly, he was just looking for any reason to text you and the missing ingredients were the perfect segue to him. Or maybe he thought you guys didn't go all the way because the chicken wasn't tasty enough.
I don't like this guy.
Camateur
05-16-2011, 12:00 AM
If you have to post this thread you're not really ready for us to tell you "no, don't see him, run for the hills girl!" It means you really have to explore what you want and stick to it and learn to ask for it and discard a dude who can't/won't step up. If you like the low maintenance thing but feel you must ask for more (because of societal pressure, peer pressure, or whatever) this is the time to see that maybe you are turned on by the low maintenance thing.
Check this site out to see if you relate to it. www.baggagereclaim.com (http://www.baggagereclaim.com) It has info on how to judge compatibility with a guy. It's all about your shared values and his selfish thing may actually be attractive to you. If you're a frugal gal who wants to be with a somewhat self-serving agenda setting guy, this guy could be someone to date. Some women want a man to be a bit selfish. I don't recommend it for the long term but I know it can be fulfilling and instructive while you learn from him how to set your own agenda. For instance, I was with a workaholic but I admired his gumption. I learned a ton from him about taking charge of my life. Didn't work between us in the long term but that's OK. Relationships are for learning not just fucking and companionship. So, as crazy as it sounds, as long as he's not a mental case narcissist it should be fairly harmless to date him a bit and question what emotions good and unpleasant that he brings up in you. Then use that information.
Also check out Why Men Love Bitches by Sherry Argov. Great overview of how to communicate with dudes non-verbally.
Well thank you for this in depth answer. I will be checking baggerreclaim next. I have heard of this site but somehow thought it was a blog about a lady with borderline personality? I'm probably wrong. Just to comment on what relationships are for in my view- I'm at an age where it would be foolish to date someone that I know from the start is not fit to raise kiddies with in a few years. I don't in anyway want a selfish man but a cheap man at that? well that just makes my panties dry up:)
btw: I have read Why Men Love Bitches but found it hard to practice and have it sound realistic coming out of my mouth, I may try again..
Camateur
05-16-2011, 12:01 AM
Tell him that you have a hot, new dress that you would like to wear for the next date and that you should go somewhere nice. Maybe include dancing.
I like this, I may do just that...we'll see what he comes up with first..
Camateur
05-16-2011, 12:06 AM
Sorry this guy is in his late 30's? Owns a home? No he's being cheap, but he needs to enjoy CNN ALONE!
I know; he couldn't even go to the red netflix box at the 711 WTF
I don't think you should give him much attention. I say act busy. Also how do you know he's not trying to date other people as well? I mean he;s in his late 30's , doesn't cook, never been married but you thought this was a great idea to half -ass cook a meal for a date?
Yeah, well I can tell on the dating site when he was last online and he was online prior to our date, I assume he would still be dating others, just not seriously because he invited me over.
He acts like he's been living underground for the last 10 years. Sorry but he needs to go back to the site and try again. If you truly feel you're better looking then him then yes ditch this guy. He's not worth it. I think he's playing on the emotions that most women possess. A sweet cozy atmosphere, alot of talking, a home made half ass meal. Seems cozy right? But this is what you would do when you've been together for a few months, not on date 2. Also he would have had sex with you if you didn't tell him to stop. What does that say about how he views you? Wow I just fixed her a meal under $3.00 and I'm going to get laid too?
I don't get that personally, wondering if I made the mistake by agreeing to go to his house?
I mean he forgot ingredients? No he probably felt extras were too much to add. Don't feel sorry for him or think aww he so cute because he tried. He didn't try he was lazy.
I was sorta thinking the aww he's so cute until today when it hit me.
I say go with Redwolf's idea... Tell him about this dress etc, bring up a restaurant and see what he does. Just be sure to have your own money just in case he comes up broke after you finish your meal. If he does. I would pay for my portion and walk out ALONE. Say something like ooh it's late I have to go. Have a big....blah blah blah in the morning. Do not go back to his place for atleast 7 more dates. I mean what ever happened to taking a lady out to a movie, museum, art exhibit. I mean there are inexpensive ways to have a good time. But CNN ? he can do so much better. If he has a computer and has access to the internet then he's really lazy , cheap and selfish.
Arghhh this is making me feel like never seeing him again, I just about hate his guts now. hopefully people will understand this is not about gold-digging but about men de-valuing women in their behavior!
Thanks for this!
Camateur
05-16-2011, 12:11 AM
Oh God. I thought the important ingredients missing were something deep and meaningful, not capers and butter. *facepalm*
I totally thought that too; like aww he's gonna say something cute..
Why would he even text you that? That's the most pointless text anybody can send. If you guys ever play scrabble and he loses, expect a text from him the next day going "I just realized I could have used that letter 'Q' and gotten triple points, oh well, how's your day going?"
OMG this was so funny! He's an idiot obviously
Maybe he texted you that because he felt bad about the date and in retrospect, he thinks he could have done better than chicken and green beans for a gal like you. Possibly, he was just looking for any reason to text you and the missing ingredients were the perfect segue to him. Or maybe he thought you guys didn't go all the way because the chicken wasn't tasty enough.
I don't like this guy.
The chicken wasn't tasty and we didn't go all the way because he didn't make dessert.:).
lemiwinks31
05-16-2011, 10:23 AM
He does sound cheap and a little bit pushy. Why don't you suggest planning the next date, or tell him some places you really like? Something like "I heard about this great restaurant that just opened.. want to go check it out?" should work.
He also sounds like he's into low maintenance girls. If this doesn't suit you after the next date, I'd cut my losses and move on.
yes.....maybe cheap and lazy......maybe he just sucks at dating. Something that seems obvious to you doesnt to him. If so far you like everything ELSE about him....why dont you ask him out....take him to a place you like......then if all goes well, see if he takes the hint on the next date.....
Its probably worth 2 more dates for someone you otherwise like.....right?
jack0177057
05-16-2011, 11:24 AM
There are a number of possibilities/explanation -
(1) he's broke - even if he makes a good income, he may be broke, for example, if he has a kid and has to pay child support or if he is divorced and has to pay child support + alimony; he may have to pay student loans or credit card debts; he may have been laid off/out of work for a time and has to catch up on bills, etc.;
(2) he's may be dating 10 or more girls a week from the dating site and has to keep each date economical (i.e., its just a volume/numbers game for him and he has no interest in a relationship);
(3) he's overspent in the past on initial dates and this strategy has failed him (either the girls don't go out with him again or they just use him); or
(4) he's a cheap/frugal person by nature.
Personally, even though I can easily afford an upscale restaurant, I wouldn't do that until I was actually "officially" dating a woman. I wouldn't spend more than $50 on the first date with a girl I've just met and whom I may have nothing in common with and may never see again. I'd put some effort/planning into it though, like a walk in the park, a visit to an interesting museum, etc.
But, on the other hand, I wouldn't attempt to "score" with her on the first couple of dates, either - unless she initiated.
Also, spending too much can backfire - women may think you are doing it to obligate/guilt them into sleeping with you.
I think your experience raises red flags... but, its still too early to tell for sure - He could just be frugal by nature. Find out if he is frugal all around, with personal things - sports, entertainment, leisure activities, car, furniture, TVs, computers, clothes, etc.
If has money, but is frugal all around - if you can look past this, he is probably okay. He'll open up his wallet a little more with time, but he'll probably never become a "big spender".
If has money, and knows how to spend it on himself, but is frugal only with dates - stop seeing him... immediately.
If he is broke - analyze whether this is a temporary or permanent problem.
Kellydancer
05-16-2011, 11:29 AM
Not to threadjack, but I think single dads aren't so bad... depending on what you are looking for. I feel like if you are the type of woman who needs your man's full attention and would be jealous having to "share" him with his kids, then dating a man with kids is probably a bad idea. But if you're independent and like to do your own thing, what's the big deal? I dated a guy pretty seriously in the past, and I kind of liked when he went off and did daddy things with his kids. It gave me extra space and alone time, which are things I highly value. And sure, kids cost money... but this should only be an issue if you're looking for a man to support you, you know?
Having kids changes men. They are often more sensitive and mature, ime. While I don't want any freaking kids of my own, I don't rule out dating a guy with kids (as long as they aren't little hellions...that's a completely different situation!).
To the OP - I think this guy sounds lazy, personally. He doesn't have to spend a ton of cash on you, regardless of whether or not he has it, to court you. If he's this lazy off the bat, what would he be like down the road, in a relationship?
Actually dating single dads when one is childless IS a very bad thing. It has little to do with attention and a lot to do with financial. I do not want to support someone else's kids or his exwife. I am not looking to be supported by anyone, but at the same time I don't want to support him because his money goes towards his kids and exwife. Not to mention a divorced or never married dad would not share my values. And many times plans would have to be changed because of his kids. No thanks I'll keep not dating dads and telling other women not to date dads unless they are moms.
BlkSharpie
05-16-2011, 11:37 AM
Wellll..you cant really tell other women what is right for them because of something you choose not to do, but its good that you recognize that you personally cannot handle dating a dad and his responsibilities. Some disregard that and end up resenting the situation, and thats what makes it a bad thing for the guy and also for the kids.
Even as a single mom, Im not keen on dating a single dad. I had one kid and stopped for a reason, I dont want anymore.
Kellydancer
05-16-2011, 11:41 AM
I tell women my experience with dating dads and only they can make the choice. However in almost every case I know the childless women ended up leaving the relationship or marriage because of this. The divorce stats between a childless person and a parent is something like 80%. Those stats are staggering. Would people consider a surgery that only had a 20% success rate? Probably not.
DesuvsDeath
05-16-2011, 02:49 PM
There's a difference between not taking you to a $100+ dinner... and making you eat at the counter and sit around watching tv and expecting to fuck you after.
This guy is clearly putting in ZERO effort.
I couldn't be bothered with someone like that. :(
Optimist
05-16-2011, 04:38 PM
There's a difference between not taking you to a $100+ dinner... and making you eat at the counter and sit around watching tv and expecting to fuck you after.
This guy is clearly putting in ZERO effort.
I couldn't be bothered with someone like that. :(
Well thank you for this in depth answer. I will be checking baggerreclaim next. I have heard of this site but somehow thought it was a blog about a lady with borderline personality? I'm probably wrong. Just to comment on what relationships are for in my view- I'm at an age where it would be foolish to date someone that I know from the start is not fit to raise kiddies with in a few years. I don't in anyway want a selfish man but a cheap man at that? well that just makes my panties dry up:)
btw: I have read Why Men Love Bitches but found it hard to practice and have it sound realistic coming out of my mouth, I may try again..
Baggage reclaim is about relationships with emotionally unavailable guys and assclowns who put no effort into relationships and the women who are attracted to them in spite of it. There are very sensitive, personal reasons why you would see this guy as perfect except for his cheapness. He's much more than cheap, he's also selfish and opportunistic. You are calling him perfect while he's still referring to his ex as beautiful and making no effort to see you in a beautiful light by taking you to a romantic place, he's not trying to impress you at all and likely doesn't care to while he has the beautiful one in mind. (I'm guessing he's one of the dudes who you mentioned in the beautiful thread?) You are drinking too heavily in his home even though he is a virtual stranger which is very dangerous. Perhaps you were drinking a bit more because he's yakking about the ex and it's making you feel inadequate, perhaps that's why you made out with him even though he's done precious little to earn that response from you?
What I'm getting at is had you been learning over the last 10-15 years of dating this guy wouldn't make the cut for anything more than cheap fun. Since he's perfect to you, you need to re-examine your standard of perfection and see if you want to raise it. The site (baggage reclaim) gets into this but why not start asking him specific questions about how many other girls he's dating how many he's screwing, is he in a relationship frame of mind (you don't have to suggest yourself). In short, find out if he wants what you want right now because you mentioned not liking the idea that he would treat his wife that way. Perhaps that's where you want to take your life over the next few years but maybe he has no interest in ever treating a wife that way......because he's not looking for marriage.
TouringGirlfriend
05-16-2011, 04:41 PM
Optimist, Well said!
So Fine Divyne
05-16-2011, 04:43 PM
I agree^^but well what now? I didn't sleep with him or even come close. Can I be redeemed?
You don't need to be redeemed because you didn't do anything wrong. I was just saying that because of the situation he MAY have felt that way. It's not written in stone that he thinks anything different of you. I wanted to lay that possibility out there. I have guy friends and have known them to be night and day from one girl to the next simply based on the chick's behavior. MY bff treated some girls like princesses, even though he is rough around the edges himself, while treating other girls like straight sluts to their faces. Like he would take one chick repeatedly shopping and to Folk's Folly or Ruth's Chris while only taking other girls with similar looks, personality, background straight to hourly hotels. I questioned him about it and he made it clear some girls you treat well and some you just fuck and forget til you want to fuck again based on how far they let you go and how hard you have to work for it.
I think you should really get to know him and have another few dates if you are still interested. Let those dates and not the amount of money spent determine if you move forward. I had a broke boyfriend with a 2 college degrees not very long ago because of the economy and we had the most awesome dates. Sometimes we did expensive things when he could afford it, but I was amazed at some of the things we did on the cheap. We snuck into the Vulcan gravel yard in Tunica on the MS river on a regular basis and had picnics with wonderful food/drink, candles at nite, on top of 10-15 foot gravel piles and a river view with blankets and bonfires and I loved it. I had never experienced anything like it and even now I think about it sometimes.
Camateur
05-16-2011, 06:07 PM
****PLEASE ALLOW ME TO INTERRUPT THESE THOUGHTFUL RESPONSES FOR THE FOLLOWING UPDATE*******
So I just got off of the phone with him and he asked me out for Friday, He said I would like to see you again.. I paused not saying yes and said "What do you have in mind?"
He said "Dinner and go to a movie?" So I said "ok"
He said he'll see what's playing and call me soon with details etc..
PS: changing a fee small details in my OG post for anonymity:D
jack0177057
05-16-2011, 06:19 PM
^ I hope he doesn't take you to the matinee show.
Do you have dollar movie theatres in your city?
Optimist
05-16-2011, 06:22 PM
He's making more effort! :yes: Keep asking questions so he knows he's got to think about things. Don't be afraid to steer him on where you want to go. Guys get more interested the more challenge you give them.
Still, read the site so you can think critically about what you want to discuss and how to evaluate what he says and does. Don't give him that perfect moniker yet--make him EARN it.
Camateur
05-16-2011, 06:27 PM
There are a number of possibilities/explanation -
(1) he's broke - even if he makes a good income, he may be broke, for example, if he has a kid and has to pay child support or if he is divorced and has to pay child support + alimony; he may have to pay student loans or credit card debts; he may have been laid off/out of work for a time and has to catch up on bills, etc.;
(2) he's may be dating 10 or more girls a week from the dating site and has to keep each date economical (i.e., its just a volume/numbers game for him and he has no interest in a relationship);
(3) he's overspent in the past on initial dates and this strategy has failed him (either the girls don't go out with him again or they just use him); or
(4) he's a cheap/frugal person by nature.
Personally, even though I can easily afford an upscale restaurant, I wouldn't do that until I was actually "officially" dating a woman. I wouldn't spend more than $50 on the first date with a girl I've just met and whom I may have nothing in common with and may never see again. I'd put some effort/planning into it though, like a walk in the park, a visit to an interesting museum, etc.
But, on the other hand, I wouldn't attempt to "score" with her on the first couple of dates, either - unless she initiated.
Also, spending too much can backfire - women may think you are doing it to obligate/guilt them into sleeping with you.
I think your experience raises red flags... but, its still too early to tell for sure - He could just be frugal by nature. Find out if he is frugal all around, with personal things - sports, entertainment, leisure activities, car, furniture, TVs, computers, clothes, etc.
If has money, but is frugal all around - if you can look past this, he is probably okay. He'll open up his wallet a little more with time, but he'll probably never become a "big spender".
If has money, and knows how to spend it on himself, but is frugal only with dates - stop seeing him... immediately.
If he is broke - analyze whether this is a temporary or permanent problem.
Thank you for your response! I think and hope it's #3, but as far as #2: having just spoken to him he said his week was wide open and could hang out whenever I wanted week or weekend so I think he's probably seeing me and maybe another (who knows its early still and I could quite possibly meet someone that I would like to see as well). Out of curiosity what makes you say "stop seeing him immediately in regards to frugality only on dates?
Btw: no matinees here and we agreed on Friday evening lol.
rickdugan
05-16-2011, 06:31 PM
Just don't let him take you to an Applebees. ;)
Camateur
05-16-2011, 06:32 PM
He's making more effort! :yes: Keep asking questions so he knows he's got to think about things. Don't be afraid to steer him on where you want to go. Guys get more interested the more challenge you give them.
Still, read the site so you can think critically about what you want to discuss and how to evaluate what he says and does. Don't give him that perfect moniker yet--make him EARN it.
I spent most of last night reading through that site; girl really knows whats up! and so do you. Because of you telling me about baggagereclaim, I learned that I shouldn't settle for text messages. I have been out of the dating game for the past 3 years and a lot has changed.. I thought text messages were the norm now-a-days. So today when he texted I texted "Hey, I like phone calls." He called 5 mins later:)
I will say after the call I got a slight pang of worry that he hung up and was turned off by the assertiveness..
Thank you for this!
Camateur
05-16-2011, 06:36 PM
yes.....maybe cheap and lazy......maybe he just sucks at dating. Something that seems obvious to you doesnt to him. If so far you like everything ELSE about him....why dont you ask him out....take him to a place you like......then if all goes well, see if he takes the hint on the next date.....
Its probably worth 2 more dates for someone you otherwise like.....right?
Yes, why not..
cherryblossomsinspring
05-16-2011, 07:49 PM
Thank you for your response! I think and hope it's #3, but as far as #2: having just spoken to him he said his week was wide open and could hang out whenever I wanted week or weekend so I think he's probably seeing me and maybe another (who knows its early still and I could quite possibly meet someone that I would like to see as well). Out of curiosity what makes you say "stop seeing him immediately in regards to frugality only on dates?
Btw: no matinees here and we agreed on Friday evening lol.
I'm happy to hear about the movies! Way to go. Ok just don't go home with him. Enjoy the movies and after discussions but yes do not go home with him.
I did read the numbers. I'm wondering if it is #3. Just be glad he's not running around in a wooden pail barefoot , screaming " the wine will be ready shorty and hand me some more grapes!":O lol
I have to say I'm proud of him lol. He's making an effort, but still make him keep trying. He may try a mac n cheese moment after the movie date. So keep him doing more even if you have to shoot him ideas in a "ooh let's do this" sort of way.
Can't wait to hear about Friday! I'm excited oooh give us play by play.;)
jack0177057
05-17-2011, 07:48 AM
Out of curiosity what makes you say "stop seeing him immediately in regards to frugality only on dates?
Because if he likes to spend money on himself, but is cheap when it comes to his dates - he sounds very selfish and may only be looking for cheap sex.
Optimist
05-17-2011, 08:05 AM
I spent most of last night reading through that site; girl really knows whats up! and so do you. Because of you telling me about baggagereclaim, I learned that I shouldn't settle for text messages. I have been out of the dating game for the past 3 years and a lot has changed.. I thought text messages were the norm now-a-days. So today when he texted I texted "Hey, I like phone calls." He called 5 mins later:)
I will say after the call I got a slight pang of worry that he hung up and was turned off by the assertiveness..
Thank you for this!
Yeah, that site is gold! Natalie is so on her shit! ;) BTW if he is turned off by your assertiveness then you aren't compatible. Dating is the exploratory phase and if you find you don't mesh, it's cool! You'll find a better fit elsewhere. Don't assume he's not seeing anyone else. It's best to ask so you know for sure because you also need to know how honest he is and how open he is about his life. You don't want to find out later that he assumed you didn't care about being upfront.
Are you seeing other people? I recommend it because then you don't get too attached too soon. He should do things over time that inspire you to get with him. He shouldn't just get you because you're lonely.
Elusive21
05-17-2011, 09:53 AM
The problem isn't that he's cheap (although it sure seems like he's a bit of a tightwad), it's that he's putting HIS interests & preferences ahead of HERS.
He suggested a cheap college bar for drinks because it's what HE likes. He suggested playing pool because HE likes it. He made her dinner at home (an EASY dinner at that for him to make) because it was convenient for HIM.
i dont think hes taking her feelings and preferences into consideration at all. so either he doesnt care about what she likes or hes too stupid to realize it (which is just as bad in my opinion)
touringgirlfriend is right saying that when a guy really cares for you or is infatuated with you he will go ABOVE and BEYOND to prove it. even if you dont show him that youre interested in him at all, he will PROVE to you and SHOW you how much he likes you.
i wasnt interested in my hubby at all when we met. didnt know he liked me and didnt even want to get to know him. he tricked me on going on a date with him (i thought we were just hanging out) he took me shopping, playing miniature golf and out to a nice dinner all in the same day and that's when i realized it was a date lol ;D for our second date he took me on a private airplane ride for an hour (no he was not rich but he thought it would be romantic and still did it) he would come over to my apartment every night bringing food that he made for me that i didnt even ask for (cheesecake, piroshki because i am russian, key lime pie) he took me to seattle and blew 3 grand on me on our one month anniversary even though we werent even sleeping together. now THATs dedication. i am not bragging just trying to show that when a guy really cares he shows it and theres no doubt at all whether he likes you or not.
camateur the fact that you are questioning this at all means that it is time for you to stop dating him. he had 2 chances to impress you and he clearly didnt. oh well. there are plenty of guys out there that will treat you like that lady that you are and impress you plenty - trust me ;)
Kellydancer
05-17-2011, 12:22 PM
You don't need to be redeemed because you didn't do anything wrong. I was just saying that because of the situation he MAY have felt that way. It's not written in stone that he thinks anything different of you. I wanted to lay that possibility out there. I have guy friends and have known them to be night and day from one girl to the next simply based on the chick's behavior. MY bff treated some girls like princesses, even though he is rough around the edges himself, while treating other girls like straight sluts to their faces. Like he would take one chick repeatedly shopping and to Folk's Folly or Ruth's Chris while only taking other girls with similar looks, personality, background straight to hourly hotels. I questioned him about it and he made it clear some girls you treat well and some you just fuck and forget til you want to fuck again based on how far they let you go and how hard you have to work for it.
I think you should really get to know him and have another few dates if you are still interested. Let those dates and not the amount of money spent determine if you move forward. I had a broke boyfriend with a 2 college degrees not very long ago because of the economy and we had the most awesome dates. Sometimes we did expensive things when he could afford it, but I was amazed at some of the things we did on the cheap. We snuck into the Vulcan gravel yard in Tunica on the MS river on a regular basis and had picnics with wonderful food/drink, candles at nite, on top of 10-15 foot gravel piles and a river view with blankets and bonfires and I loved it. I had never experienced anything like it and even now I think about it sometimes.
Agree with this and have seen it firsthand myself. Way too many women don't realize this and think they'll sleep with a guy right away. In many cases the guy is thinking easy lay and will not think of her as anything but a plaything.
lestat1
05-17-2011, 06:05 PM
Two common attributes shared by millionaires are frugality and living beneath their means. Two things to remember if you think you want to find one someday. :tophat:
Elusive21
05-17-2011, 08:32 PM
frugality is great, UNLESS he is obsessively, compulsively a tightwad when it comes to the lady he is dating.
why would a woman want to be with a man (rich or poor) if he was a cheapass when it comes to her?
Camateur
05-18-2011, 11:33 AM
[QUOTE=Elusive21;2119727]The problem isn't that he's cheap (although it sure seems like he's a bit of a tightwad), it's that he's putting HIS interests & preferences ahead of HERS.
He suggested a cheap college bar for drinks because it's what HE likes. He suggested playing pool because HE likes it. He made her dinner at home (an EASY dinner at that for him to make) because it was convenient for HIM.
He did give me a choice to eat out as well but I did want to see his place and how he lived.
i dont think hes taking her feelings and preferences into consideration at all. so either he doesnt care about what she likes or hes too stupid to realize it (which is just as bad in my opinion)
I will propose a good restaurant for next date and see if he takes me there.
touringgirlfriend is right saying that when a guy really cares for you or is infatuated with you he will go ABOVE and BEYOND to prove it. even if you dont show him that youre interested in him at all, he will PROVE to you and SHOW you how much he likes you.
This is true in some types of men, especially emotionally unavailable,they love to aggresively pursue you in the beginning and then their interest drops off after they get what they want. I prefer a relationship to be more balanced myself, like a tennis game, you hit the ball back and forth. That sort of relationship is more stable and mature in my opinion. I do think there's something off about someone that would pursue someone that has shown them no interest.
I wasnt interested in my hubby at all when we met. didnt know he liked me and didnt even want to get to know him. he tricked me on going on a date with him (i thought we were just hanging out) he took me shopping, playing miniature golf and out to a nice dinner all in the same day and that's when i realized it was a date lol ;D for our second date he took me on a private airplane ride for an hour (no he was not rich but he thought it would be romantic and still did it) he would come over to my apartment every night bringing food that he made for me that i didnt even ask for (cheesecake, piroshki because i am russian, key lime pie) he took me to seattle and blew 3 grand on me on our one month anniversary even though we werent even sleeping together. now THATs dedication. i am not bragging just trying to show that when a guy really cares he shows it and theres no doubt at all whether he likes you or not.
This is not a knock on your situation, but someone pursuing me like this would be a turn off because to me someone who has to try this hard is telling me something about the way they feel about themselves (ie that they have to do all of this to interest a girl) and that just showing them who they are isn't enough. They are telling me "I'm not good enough on my own" As far as the one month thing equaling dedication- spending 3 grand when you don't really have it to spare screams desperation to me (not trying to insult you) also a month really isn't a long time for a man wait to have sex.
On the other hand, you are right in that this guy should be doing more, I have to remember it's been only one initial meeting and one official date, we shall see what happens with the next date:)
Camateur
05-18-2011, 11:40 AM
Yeah, that site is gold! Natalie is so on her shit! ;) BTW if he is turned off by your assertiveness then you aren't compatible. Dating is the exploratory phase and if you find you don't mesh, it's cool! You'll find a better fit elsewhere. Don't assume he's not seeing anyone else. It's best to ask so you know for sure because you also need to know how honest he is and how open he is about his life. You don't want to find out later that he assumed you didn't care about being upfront.
Are you seeing other people? I recommend it because then you don't get too attached too soon. He should do things over time that inspire you to get with him. He shouldn't just get you because you're lonely.
I need to understand how to ask "are you seeing other people?" and "are you looking for a committed relationship?" without sending him running for the hills. Seriously Natalie says it won't scare the right person off but I've heard that with guys this freaks them out.
btw: I prefer to focus on one person at a time; to date multiple people has never been my thing. It doesn't mean I'll become attached just because he's the only one, btw natalie doesn't recommend it http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/understanding-why-dating-several-people-at-a-time-is-messy-a-sign-of-your-emotional-unavailability-commitment-resistance/
Elusive21
05-18-2011, 02:13 PM
He did give me a choice to eat out as well but I did want to see his place and how he lived.
I must've misread your original post. If he gave you a choice, that's a great, that shows that he is genuinely interested in doing something that YOU would like to do and that he cares that you have a good time.
I will propose a good restaurant for next date and see if he takes me there.
that's cool. make sure to tell us about it and i genuinely hope that you have fun on your date.
This is true in some types of men, especially emotionally unavailable,they love to aggresively pursue you in the beginning and then their interest drops off after they get what they want. I prefer a relationship to be more balanced myself, like a tennis game, you hit the ball back and forth. That sort of relationship is more stable and mature in my opinion. I do think there's something off about someone that would pursue someone that has shown them no interest.
okay. so i had to read this a couple of time because at first i was like "oh no she didn't! :gasp: lol.
i suppose somebody actively pursuing you can be unhealthy in some instances. i won't disregard that, such as when they are stalking you and leaving you teddy bears with a knife through the teddy's heart or something equally as crazy.
im lucky that in my case it wasnt like that. it was more of a romantic comedy guy falls in love and knows that the woman he has met will be his future wife someday kind of thing. this might sound crazy but that is what he truly felt and he wanted to get to know me and show me that. when i said i didnt like him, i meant romantically, and that wasnt because he wasn't good looking, it was because i had just gotten out of a relationship and wasnt ready to start another one quite yet, plus one of my friends had the hots for him.
i believe our relationship is very mature and i for one minute would not think that hubby is in emotionally unavailable. having known him for 8 years i am glad that i have met him and that he so actively pursued me. it made me feel pretty damn good.
As far as the one month thing equaling dedication- spending 3 grand when you don't really have it to spare screams desperation to me (not trying to insult you) also a month really isn't a long time for a man wait to have sex.
i should have clarified. he wasnt rich at the time but the money he spent on me was money that he already had, he didnt go into debt over it or anything. he is a very good saver and actually frugal in many instances. he is however a romantic, but not a crazy one that's going to go in debt over a girl. he spent the amount of money that he was comfortable with spending to impress a girl, that's all.
--------------------------------------------------
having said that im going to quit talking about my relationship because i feel like i am jacking your thread (just wanted to clarify a few things, that's all).
i hope it works out with you and your boy. i guess i just get a little outspoken when i hear about girls not being treated right by their men or maybe their men have no clue theyre being jerks (just read all the bad man threads in life support).
i wish the best for all the girls on here because we sure as hell deserve it!
Optimist
05-18-2011, 07:39 PM
I need to understand how to ask "are you seeing other people?" and "are you looking for a committed relationship?" without sending him running for the hills. Seriously Natalie says it won't scare the right person off but I've heard that with guys this freaks them out.
btw: I prefer to focus on one person at a time; to date multiple people has never been my thing. It doesn't mean I'll become attached just because he's the only one, btw natalie doesn't recommend it http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/understanding-why-dating-several-people-at-a-time-is-messy-a-sign-of-your-emotional-unavailability-commitment-resistance/
There is no nice way to do it. You just mention it in a matter-of-fact manner. If he runs screaming it is a good thing to find out early that he has issues. What he wants in general (and later specifically from you) should not be a secret from you. He should have some kind of idea. If he hasn't thought about what he wants from the dating experience then its a flag that he may not be moving at the pace or in the direction your life is moving in. It sounds like you don't want to waste a bunch of time and ideally he should be very clear he wants to date toward creating a relationship too.
Yeah, that multiple dating thing is something we differ on. I like dating a few dudes at a time and whittling down but I'm not necessarily looking to do the relationship thing at the moment. I'm still moving around the country and after a biting breakup last year I'm cool with just having fun. Next year, maybe more.
Camateur
05-18-2011, 09:33 PM
Elusive: Thank you for your post seriously; it helped me a lot. It's sounds like you got a good one:)
jack0177057
05-19-2011, 07:52 AM
I need to understand how to ask "are you seeing other people?" and "are you looking for a committed relationship?"
If you're looking for something serious - You probably shouldn't ask this question or sleep with the guy, until at least the third or fourth date. (I know a lot of women here say they have slept with guys on the first date and got married to that guy, but I'm just talking in general.)
Then, when he starts trying to initiate sex on the 3rd or 4th date, stop him and tell him you are a traditional girl and only sleep in a committed relationship. Then, watch him carefully for his reaction. If this upsets him, it means he has no intention of being in a committed relationship with you. If he's not terribly upset by this, then it means he intends on having a committed relationship with you (or that he's willing to lie).
I don't think this makes you look like you're desparate for a committed relationship, just that you are traditional when it comes to sex, which is perfectly acceptable.
Kellydancer
05-19-2011, 11:27 AM
If you're looking for something serious - You probably shouldn't ask this question or sleep with the guy, until at least the third or fourth date. (I know a lot of women here say they have slept with guys on the first date and got married to that guy, but I'm just talking in general.)
Then, when he starts trying to initiate sex on the 3rd or 4th date, stop him and tell him you are a traditional girl and only sleep in a committed relationship. Then, watch him carefully for his reaction. If this upsets him, it means he has no intention of being in a committed relationship with you. If he's not terribly upset by this, then it means he intends on having a committed relationship with you (or that he's willing to lie).
I don't think this makes you look like you're desparate for a committed relationship, just that you are traditional when it comes to sex, which is perfectly acceptable.
This is great advice and I agree. I've noticed when I tell a guy I want to wait and he's fine, this usually means he wants a relationship. If he says he doesn't want to wait, then I've noticed he doesn't want a relationship. There are exceptions but this is what I've seen.
tampadancer
05-21-2011, 09:38 AM
Actually dating single dads when one is childless IS a very bad thing. It has little to do with attention and a lot to do with financial. I do not want to support someone else's kids or his exwife. I am not looking to be supported by anyone, but at the same time I don't want to support him because his money goes towards his kids and exwife. Not to mention a divorced or never married dad would not share my values. And many times plans would have to be changed because of his kids. No thanks I'll keep not dating dads and telling other women not to date dads unless they are moms.
I'm not sure what your experience is with dating dads, but I've never supported anyone's kids or ex-wives. If you've dated men who needed you to help them support their kids, then it sounds like you were dating deadbeat dads... in which case, I'd say that was a situation to avoid. However, I'd steer away from deadbeats of any kind - not just dads.
I think you're being unfair. There are a lot of wonderful men out there with children, and if you refuse to consider dating them based on that, you are drastically reducing your dating field. Men in their late thirties/early forties (which I assume is the age group you date) often HAVE been married and/or DO have kids. A failed marriage or single-father status doesn't make a man a moral failure, which was your implication.
Kellydancer
05-21-2011, 11:34 AM
I'm not sure what your experience is with dating dads, but I've never supported anyone's kids or ex-wives. If you've dated men who needed you to help them support their kids, then it sounds like you were dating deadbeat dads... in which case, I'd say that was a situation to avoid. However, I'd steer away from deadbeats of any kind - not just dads.
I think you're being unfair. There are a lot of wonderful men out there with children, and if you refuse to consider dating them based on that, you are drastically reducing your dating field. Men in their late thirties/early forties (which I assume is the age group you date) often HAVE been married and/or DO have kids. A failed marriage or single-father status doesn't make a man a moral failure, which was your implication.
Men that never married the mom have moral failures in my view since I am strongly anti single parenthood. They could have married the mom but chose not to. As for divorce I am a staunch Catholic and I am against divorce in most cases, especially when it comes to kids. I want the church wedding and can not have it if he's a divorced dad with kids. If he's a never married dad then he's not religious either. The only exception to this is men who adopted kids as a single dad or raising kids not his own (nieces and nephews for example).
Even if one doesn't directly support the kids the new spouse supports. I couldn't begin to tell you all the women I know who couldn't have kids because their ex was supporting his kids and couldn't afford more. Plus in many states they look at household income instead of the father's income and yes they could expect him to pay more because his new wife is making a lot. I've seen this happen a lot. I knew a woman with a husband who had a selfish ex wife. This bitch refused to work so the husband had to support her and the kids. Once he married his new wife (who made more than him) the bitch ex sued for more support and won! This happens a lot and there are thousands of cases like this available online. I don't want to be denied anything because he has no money and neither do I because I have to pay. This happened with the guys I dated with kids. They never had money so we either went dirt cheap (third run movie and fast food) or I paid.
Not just financial either, but often plans have to be changed because of his ex. I hate having plans constantly changed because of someone else. I can't forget all the drama too that happens when one dates a dad. Not to mention that none of the guys I dated with kids didn't want to remarry because they got screwed over. They also didn't want more kids. Contrary to popular belief the men I found the lease interested in marriage were dads.
I am not being unfair. I don't want a divorced or never married man with kids. Even if this means I never marry, I am fine with this (though I would be saddened if this happened). There are still men I would date out there so I have hope I'll find one of them. Let dads date moms and leave me alone.
To me dating is like picking a car. Say I have my heart set on a grey Mercedes. I may not find one so instead I decide to go with blue. However, this doesn't mean I have to buy an used banged up Pinto. Same thing with dating. Sure, I may not find exactly what I want but doesn't mean I have to date someone with traits I find problematic, namely having kids. I have dated dads and all of them had baggage big time. No thanks.
IsobelWren
05-21-2011, 12:39 PM
Why is everyone saying chicken and beans? Isn't halibut fish?
Quibbling aside, I think there are some perfectly valid reasons he may be appearing cheap.
He may be nerdy. Many nerd guys don't typically expand on their spheres of activity themselves. He goes to that bar because it's where he went in college or because it's near his house. He cooked you a crappy meal because he heard that ladies like home cooked meals and well, that's what he makes himself. It never occurred to him that he needed to learn something special. He asked if you wanted to go bowling b/c that's what he and his buddies have always done so why wouldn't you like it as well? It just never occurs to him that ladies want something else than what he and his buddies have done since college.
He's in his 30s you said. He may have kids or an ex-wife he's supporting or he may (like me) have ailing parents whom he doesn't feel comfortable talking about yet but whom he's supporting.
He owns his home? It is most likely under water and he may be trying valiantly to make the payments and have had to cut expenses elsewhere. He may have been doing this so long that he got used to living bargain basement and didn't think you wanted more.
His friends warned him that "girls like us" expect fancy things so he should just treat you like a "normal girl" and see what happens.
He may simply be a thrifty person naturally and thus it wouldn't occur to him to take you nice places. I have thrifty friends who think 14$ per entree is highway robbery. My sister refuses to pay more than 20$ per night for a hotel. Seriously, she's opted to sleep in a train station instead before.
His job doesn't pay as well as it appears to.
He's self centered and doesn't see that something he's into, something he likes, something he wants to do wouldn't be something you'd like. Of course you like it, he likes it and isn't he the most important person here? Um. No. <-Worst case.
I'm going to err on the side of ignorance. I mean, it doesn't sound like he's really aware that he's being a spaz. I think some gentle prodding in the direction of, "I like a more high end life than this" might help. Or maybe you can bring him up a little and he can bring you down a little and you'll both be happy and stick together.
tampadancer
05-21-2011, 02:25 PM
Men that never married the mom have moral failures in my view since I am strongly anti single parenthood. They could have married the mom but chose not to. As for divorce I am a staunch Catholic and I am against divorce in most cases, especially when it comes to kids. I want the church wedding and can not have it if he's a divorced dad with kids. If he's a never married dad then he's not religious either. The only exception to this is men who adopted kids as a single dad or raising kids not his own (nieces and nephews for example).
Even if one doesn't directly support the kids the new spouse supports. I couldn't begin to tell you all the women I know who couldn't have kids because their ex was supporting his kids and couldn't afford more. Plus in many states they look at household income instead of the father's income and yes they could expect him to pay more because his new wife is making a lot. I've seen this happen a lot. I knew a woman with a husband who had a selfish ex wife. This bitch refused to work so the husband had to support her and the kids. Once he married his new wife (who made more than him) the bitch ex sued for more support and won! This happens a lot and there are thousands of cases like this available online. I don't want to be denied anything because he has no money and neither do I because I have to pay. This happened with the guys I dated with kids. They never had money so we either went dirt cheap (third run movie and fast food) or I paid.
Not just financial either, but often plans have to be changed because of his ex. I hate having plans constantly changed because of someone else. I can't forget all the drama too that happens when one dates a dad. Not to mention that none of the guys I dated with kids didn't want to remarry because they got screwed over. They also didn't want more kids. Contrary to popular belief the men I found the lease interested in marriage were dads.
I am not being unfair. I don't want a divorced or never married man with kids. Even if this means I never marry, I am fine with this (though I would be saddened if this happened). There are still men I would date out there so I have hope I'll find one of them. Let dads date moms and leave me alone.
To me dating is like picking a car. Say I have my heart set on a grey Mercedes. I may not find one so instead I decide to go with blue. However, this doesn't mean I have to buy an used banged up Pinto. Same thing with dating. Sure, I may not find exactly what I want but doesn't mean I have to date someone with traits I find problematic, namely having kids. I have dated dads and all of them had baggage big time. No thanks.
Fair enough :) I guess we've just had different experiences with this. I definitely don't think you should go for a beat up pinto! I just think that there are great men out there who happen to be single dads. But if this is something you feel strongly about (and obviously you do), you should stick to it.
Kellydancer
05-21-2011, 02:32 PM
Maybe if I had met great guys who didn't have drama I'd feel different. It's just that I've dated guys who had tremendous baggage from this and knew other women with the same issue that I am very anti dating dads. I wonder if this will change in ten years if I go through menopause and am still single, but for now I still want kids and want them with a man without other kids.