Log in

View Full Version : Another Sex Industry/Racism Thread



Pages : 1 [2]

camille27
05-30-2011, 10:54 AM
i have never worked in a club where management polled customers to find out what kind of dancers they'd prefer. which means that mgmt is operating on their assumptions of what they feel will please customers. and it is ridiculous to act as if those assumptions are not based on racist ideologies.

most young dancers want hiphop. because that's what young people listen to. i've worked in many clubs where ALL dancers were annoyed at the music mgmt insisted upon, mostly because the music was not shit that any of us wanted to listen to. but mgmt believed that techno and old rock would appeal better to the customers.

let's all stop pretending like strip clubs are run by business masterminds. strip clubs are largely ran by amateurs who were once barbacks and worked their way up to mgmt positions. none of these dudes are running hedge funds for a reason.


I'm saying that if you have 40 dancers, and ten of them are black, and you have 4-5 new black girls coming in to get hired, you're going to have more black dancers than your customers want to see, unless you have a lot of black customers. The best bet is to have about the same ethnic mix as your customer base.

It's not racism, it's business. Too much supply, not enough demand.

If you have a lot of guys who want black dancers, no problem. if you have a lot of guys who want the fucking barbie doll clones, you have a problem.


If the black dancers insist on dancing to only rap or they will scream at you from the stage, and you have a lot of black dancers, but your customers do not want to listen to rap, you have a serious problem. This is something I have run into a lot.

Plenty of white girls will scream at you from the stage if they don't like the music either. But I have run into very, very few black dancers who don't ask for rap and R & B.

sananeko
05-30-2011, 11:16 AM
I think its more on where a girl makes money... I say management shouldn't choose on color but more on how fit and pretty the girl is and see who is making money. I mean what stripper will stay in a place shes not making any money?

Kellydancer
05-30-2011, 01:13 PM
I agree with DJ about hip hop and that most black dancers tend to listen to it. I danced with two black dancers that hated it. One was a huge Pearl Jam fan and the other loved Duran Duran, but these dancers are few in far between. I would often share music with these two because they happened to like the same kind of music I like. Both of them btw did well with white customers.

Optimist
05-30-2011, 04:45 PM
let's all stop pretending like strip clubs are run by business masterminds. strip clubs are largely ran by amateurs who were once barbacks and worked their way up to mgmt positions. none of these dudes are running hedge funds for a reason.

Quote of the day!! ;D;D

sierra.
05-30-2011, 07:16 PM
I read a really interesting article on this a while ago, and I really really wish I could find it to link to your guys here but I'm not having much luck.

Anyway, it was about racism in sex work and I don't remember much from it, but I do remember the author (an ex-sex worker) talking about the difference in opportunities available to white women vs women of color working as strippers. Specifically how women of color may be restricted to working in lower-class clubs in dangerous areas making less money while white women often are more free to pick and choose in what clubs/areas they wish to work.

Obviously this may not reflect everyone's experience, depending on where you're located, but I thought it was a good point and very interesting. Especially because this issue hadn't occurred to me before and I also like to think I have a fairly good understanding of white privilege and the like. It just goes to show how clueless one can really be about one's own privilege!

Anyway, just wanted to share. I'm going to keep looking for that article...

Djoser
05-30-2011, 07:18 PM
it is ridiculous to act as if those assumptions are not based on racist ideologies.

It's ridiculous to assume that customers don't have preferences. I see how they react to every dancer I put up there, at the tiprail. I see what kind of dancers are getting tipped every night. And I definitely notice who doesn't get tipped as well.

It's not all racism. Most of it is simply preference.


most young dancers want hiphop.

That hasn't been my experience at all.


mgmt believed that techno and old rock would appeal better to the customers.

And in my experience, they are correct in believing this. The guys with money want rock and techno a lot more than they want 50cent and Drake, trust me. Maybe in your clubs it has been different.


let's all stop pretending like strip clubs are run by business masterminds. strip clubs are largely ran by amateurs who were once barbacks and worked their way up to mgmt positions.

Agreed a lot of managers are fucking morons, and some of them are racist morons, it is true. I've worked with those guys. I've also worked with a whole lot of dancers who had no idea how a club should be run either, judging by their musical choices (if allowed to play whatever they wanted) and their never making it to stage when called, etc.

Actually the ratio of good business minds to idiots seems to be approximately the same in dancers and male staff. There's not many with brains in either sex, in my experience.

JustAnotherCustomer
05-30-2011, 07:42 PM
It's ridiculous to assume that customers don't have preferences. I see how they react to every dancer I put up there, at the tiprail. I see what kind of dancers are getting tipped every night. And I definitely notice who doesn't get tipped as well.

It's not all racism. Most of it is simply preference.



For me it is preference. Im as white as a sheet of copy paper, and i like my women the same. 99% of the time I only get LDs & VIPs from white dancers.
No hate, never had a bad experience, just preference :)

camille27
05-30-2011, 07:54 PM
you SEE dudes tipping. but i am the one on the floor talking to them. if anyone could get close to "polling" customers, it'd be the women working them.

the guys with money want silence in a champagne room. the preference is silence. the preference is a dj who doesn't talk much. the preference is to turn the music down so they don't have to shout when they are having a drink. but you see them tipping so you must be right. i am just a brainless dancer.

"preferences", racism, tomato...you think dancers are idiots. awesome. you have successfully derailed the thread.

sierra, there are so many articles about racism and sex work. that's why there is a thread in club chat about clubs that are not-hostile (read: MGMT) toward black dancers. it's the MANAGEMENT. it's not "preference". it's racism. you want to put a pretty hat on it and call it "preference" and what the fuck ever else. it's racism.

i can't seriously believe this "most negroes like hiphop and it makes white customers ears bleed and so we can't hire colored folks because the preference..." bullshit is actually being defended. actually, i can believe it. because you are the ones who are perpetuating this bullshit. ignorance is a choice. you tell me it's not racism and then proceed to make sweeping generalizations about what black people do and.........stop acting brand new.

camille27
05-30-2011, 07:55 PM
quoting the original post to emphasize the irrelevance of so much going on here. but by all means, white men, continue to share your experiences on how racism in the sex industry affects you.


I often hear from friends and colleagues who are not Caucasian that making money in the sex industry is more difficult for them. There was a recent post about saturation in the Asian market (lower-end) and I'm well-aware of "black quotas" - only 1-2 black girls/agency, no guarantees on income, etc.

I'm curious - does this phenomenon affect you? If so, how?

I also have several white-girl-privilege type questions that are borderline offensive. I figured if I can ask anywhere its here, I do NOT mean to be rude by asking the following:

Do you think a limit on the number of ethnic girls (1 black, 1 asian, 1 middle-eastern/indian, 2-3 latinas) helps or hurts your money? Both?
If a client tells you you're charging too much because you're xxx ethnicity is that poorly-worded advice about the reality of the market or just them being cheap? Both?
If an agency owner tells you they cannot guarantee that you will make the same money as a white girl is the owner being racist or realistic about racism in the market? Both?



My background: I work as an escort, through agency while in school and indy when I'm not. I am a redheaded caucasian. I have (what I think is) a good understanding of white privilege and I'm sure I don't know half of the crap that goes on surrounding racism in the sex industry.

Djoser
05-30-2011, 08:29 PM
you SEE dudes tipping. but i am the one on the floor talking to them. if anyone could get close to "polling" customers, it'd be the women working them.

I also see how much they are in VIP. There are cameras all over the club I work in, and I work closely with the Champagne Room waitress because I have to skip them when they are up there--about 2% of the dancers ever tell me when they are going up, which means I wind up playing their song for the next girl because they couldn't be bothered to tell me.


the guys with money want silence in a champagne room. the preference is silence. the preference is a dj who doesn't talk much. the preference is to turn the music down so they don't have to shout when they are having a drink.

Right, that's why the music is muted up there. That's also why I rarely ever talk in the middle of the song, and never turn down the music when I do. Which of course has nothing whatsoever to do with racism. Neither does this:


but you see them tipping so you must be right. i am just a brainless dancer.

I never said that. I said that both the men and women in this business tend to be fucking dumb as hell. Maybe you are working with a bunch of Nobel Laureates. Or maybe you'd like to assume that only white male employees of stripclubs are ever stupid, racist, or ignorant. I've seen these dubious qualities in action in this business, from men and women from all over the world, of all colors.


"preferences", racism, tomato...you think dancers are idiots. awesome. you have successfully derailed the thread.

And you think managers are idiots. You are doing a great job of derailing the thread with your own preconceptions.


it's not "preference". it's racism. you want to put a pretty hat on it and call it "preference" and what the fuck ever else. it's racism.

i can't seriously believe this "most negroes like hiphop and it makes white customers ears bleed and so we can't hire colored folks because the preference..." bullshit is actually being defended. actually, i can believe it. because you are the ones who are perpetuating this bullshit. ignorance is a choice. you tell me it's not racism and then proceed to make sweeping generalizations about what black people do and.........stop acting brand new.

No, I am not perpetuating this bullshit. The women screaming at me from the stage that they can't possibly dance to the music that 97% of the customers in the club want to hear are perpetuating this bullshit. Like a damned fool, I have tried way too much in the past to keep them happy (black or white). And it basically cost me one job--though I ought to thank them for demoting me so I left and got one ten times better.

Ignorance is a choice alright.

You can choose to scream racism and blame people who are trying to tell you men actually have preferences (god forbid). Or you can acknowledge reality and consider the point that men in stripclubs do actually have preferences, and a whole lot of them don't want to see 20 black dancers out of 40 in the club.