Log in

View Full Version : Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others



Pages : 1 [2] 3

Camateur
06-10-2011, 10:58 PM
I think the biggest problem is only about 20% of the findings are presented as stats. The rest are conclusions drawn in certain directions. On the notes for this book outline it mentions that the book got mixed reviews on Amazon because "One interesting fact is that this book got positive but mixed reviews on Amazon. It seems that the statistical truths that women who are A) over 35, and B) overweight are much less likely to marry were not well-received by those women who fell into those categories." That doesn't sound like something a serious scientist would write. It says "Consider unpolished jewels, men who are just as nice, intelligent, hard-working, and successful, but lack looks, height, or social skills." but provides no stat explaining the suggestion. Perhaps the writer falls under this category. :D

No supportive stat

No stat and who's rushing marriage to keep up with their friends???

No stat

No stat just absurd advice

No stat and I suspect, again, that's for his benefit. :P

But 80% didn't do this. This guy will ignore his own stats to keep shoving his agenda.

It comes off like junk science at best.



I think the actual numbers are supposed to be in the book this was a summary of findings.

bucket
06-10-2011, 11:36 PM
If you can just get these numbers straight you can all find husbands.
Good luck ladies!!

We'll be at the club, crying in our beer....

crillin
06-11-2011, 02:42 AM
I think you're right. I bet she spent all that time begging him to change and like a typical male, he gave her the whole "I can change" promise. men don't change.

If he's not committed to you after a few YEARS, he's not going to be!!!

Question. Why do you women insist on changing the guy?? If you love him, you should accept all his character strengths and weaknesses. Sure there are some things guys can polish up on with a little bit of a woman's hand but for the most part he is going to be who he is. Marry the guy, not the guy you think he'll turn into. It's a recipe for disaster in the latter case.

I disagree with the time-frame of a few years for commitment rule. I've know couples that have dated for years (6-8yrs) and have tied the knot. The important thing is that they were both on the same page and when they were ready, they made the leap. Some people still take marriage very seriously and it's not something that follows a schedule. Here's a question, would you ladies rush things and marry so that you're not the last one to get hitched in your group of friends but then later divorce the guy because you weren't compatible? Or would you rather spend the time to get to really know the person and have a lasting relationship?

xGigi
06-11-2011, 09:33 AM
Question. Why do you women insist on changing the guy?? If you love him, you should accept all his character strengths and weaknesses. Sure there are some things guys can polish up on with a little bit of a woman's hand but for the most part he is going to be who he is. Marry the guy, not the guy you think he'll turn into. It's a recipe for disaster in the latter case.

I disagree with the time-frame of a few years for commitment rule. I've know couples that have dated for years (6-8yrs) and have tied the knot. The important thing is that they were both on the same page and when they were ready, they made the leap. Some people still take marriage very seriously and it's not something that follows a schedule. Here's a question, would you ladies rush things and marry so that you're not the last one to get hitched in your group of friends but then later divorce the guy because you weren't compatible? Or would you rather spend the time to get to really know the person and have a lasting relationship?

all right I don't know what you mean by "you women" but I've never tried to change a man and I was actually pointing out how stupid it is to think you can change a man.

the reason that SOME women try to change a man is because they watch too many lifetime movies and automatically assume that the man they met at a bar last week is marriage material. I mean...why not...we had THREE drinks together and he was sooo funny and smart and perfect... they become enamored within seconds usually because they're insecure and need a relationship to stabilize them. once they realize that the man they fell head over heels for ISN'T "the one" they would rather MAKE him be their ideal mate than dare try to find someone else because it would mean being unstable and alone in the world again.

or maybe it's because "you men" will say whatever the fuck it takes to get into a woman's pants and OFTEN those lines include "I will change for you" so that might have something to do with the fact that so many women think they can change a man.

also, I didn't say "if he's not married to you after a few years he never will" I said if he's not committed after a few years i.e. "being on the same page" whether it's agreeing to get married at SOME point or living together but never marrying or being in an open relationship. to me, commitment means having some sort of plan for the future involving the other person.

Kellydancer
06-11-2011, 10:12 AM
I don't try to change men. Men have to do it on their own. The closest I've come to this is I've tried to help men who claimed to want to change and then I've been patient with them. Sometimes they change, sometimes not, but i'm of the belief people can change if they want to and if they love someone enough.

As for commitment this varies on age. Maybe it's because older women have less of a biological clock time as do men (yep it's harder for older men to have babies too)but the older one gets, in general the less time they date before marriage. There's a few ways to look at this, but I think part of it is as you get older you know what you want and what you don't. Of course there is also this idea that as one gets older they often need to settle so people take what they can get. In my 20's I often dated men for years and this was fine because I wasn't looking to marry. Now I am and I don't want to waste time with men who don't.

crillin
06-11-2011, 02:59 PM
all right I don't know what you mean by "you women" but I've never tried to change a man and I was actually pointing out how stupid it is to think you can change a man.

the reason that SOME women try to change a man is because they watch too many lifetime movies and automatically assume that the man they met at a bar last week is marriage material. I mean...why not...we had THREE drinks together and he was sooo funny and smart and perfect... they become enamored within seconds usually because they're insecure and need a relationship to stabilize them. once they realize that the man they fell head over heels for ISN'T "the one" they would rather MAKE him be their ideal mate than dare try to find someone else because it would mean being unstable and alone in the world again.

or maybe it's because "you men" will say whatever the fuck it takes to get into a woman's pants and OFTEN those lines include "I will change for you" so that might have something to do with the fact that so many women think they can change a man.

also, I didn't say "if he's not married to you after a few years he never will" I said if he's not committed after a few years i.e. "being on the same page" whether it's agreeing to get married at SOME point or living together but never marrying or being in an open relationship. to me, commitment means having some sort of plan for the future involving the other person.

Sorry, I should have said 'some' women but thanks for explaining one viewpoint as to why some women have this need to change a guy. As for the guys that promise change...well I can only speak for myself and say that if a woman said that to me, I'd be cautious about it. I'd rather she change for herself than do it for me. Changing for someone doesn't tend to stay as permanent compared to wanting to change for yourself. I believe actions speak louder than words and if a guy makes promises and doesn't keep them, it should be a red flag.

Again, thanks for the clarification on what your definition of the word commitment is. I made the inference to marriage since you were quoting a post with that topic.

xGigi
06-12-2011, 07:17 AM
no problem ;)

BIGJosh
06-12-2011, 11:08 PM
Does he open doors for you? Does he do little things to show that he cares about you? Does he say please and thank you? Does he have any sense of chivalry?



Just because some men dont do this, doesnt mean they are "losers", or bad guys. Not be a dick, but, seriously, women have fought to be "equals" for many years, how is opening a door, amking you look any better than say another guy you gals might find attracted to? why is it always a guy who has to have "chivalry"? Do you open doors for him? maybe buy meals from time to time? say "I got this one baby" when the check comes? or do you "expect" all of this stuff, and make it seem like if a guy doesnt do all of the stuff I've mentioned just now, he's "(in your mind) a "loser"?

Maybe that guy has done all of that stuff, and still not gotten respect? Maybe he's done all that, and still been underappreciated? Yes, it is a bit oldfashioned, to see that(and I do that sometimes as well, i:e; open doors/etc), but, you have to earn it, it's like respect, it's not automatically given, it's earned. Nothing wrong with wanting all that, but, if you;'re not enough without all that, you'll never be enough with it.
(
Not trying to start a fight here, but seriously. I get sick of hearing women say "why cant i find a guy who opens doors for me, or does this or does that...blah blah blah", but, when they get said person, they treat them like shit, or cheat on them for some guy who doesn't do all of what you mentioned, you know, the proverbial "bad Boy"? so many women are attracted to?

You should check out Tom Leykis's view on "chivalry" sometimes...it's spot on. Not saying I agree with everything he says, but some things, I do, and on that topic, I DEFINITELY do.

maybe some dancers/entertainers should try to stay: clean and sober, drug/disease free, and stop banging all these guys, b/c they're so fucked up on: coke/crack/meth/X/etc, they dont know wTF they're doing, or who they're doing what with?

Not in any way saying "all women", but lets not leave out those women in this industry I've seen, who have done their fair share of shitting on some guy. I've encountered many entertainers who are unhappy with their personal lives/so's, and stray and do all sorrts of things with people.

Again, not saying all do...but there are quite a few I have seen that do this stuff. How about a girl open a door for a guy? or show up @ his house with a small gift or something? Maybe surprise him @ work one day "just because"? To gget something, you have to give something.

You come off as "expecting" something from a man, thats not good. If thats the way you are? so be it, just dont be disappointed, when you do get what you want, and it's not all it's cracked up to be? I have a feeling, if a guy "expected" certain things from you, and you weren't able to deliver, he'd be upset too? and would have every right to be? not fair if it doesnt work BOTH ways my dear.

Here's Leykis on "Chivalry":

http://youtu.be/afj2gnFiPdA pt 1

http://youtu.be/e3D04Fw7VJo pt 2

http://youtu.be/GIehMliVl0I pt 3

http://youtu.be/bYnichHfdgI pt 4




Just sayin.,...

Kellydancer
06-12-2011, 11:42 PM
Big Josh, I can't speak for other women, but I have paid for dates and have no problem with it. My only problem is when I go out on a date and he expects me to pay for him though he asked me out! Have had this happen. Also, while many women want the bad boy, many of us have had trouble finding good guys. There aren't that many good guys out there, and I'm sure that's the same for women.

The reason women cheat on the so called "nice guy" is because he really isn't. I cheated on an ex and he was an abusive alcoholic. Most of the so called nice guys are just ugly guys with awful personalities. If a guy is ugly he has to have a great personality and rarely do they. And remember when guys complain about dating a nasty woman, there are women complaining there aren't good guys out there. These guys get what they deserve because sometimes they break the heart of a girl who loves them to be with a girl who wants to use them. Screw them they are getting theirs.

Btw, I've never done drugs (except tried pot a few times)and wasn't sleeping with every man I knew. I was pretty level headed most times.

tampadancer
06-13-2011, 07:09 AM
Not be a dick, but, seriously, women have fought to be "equals" for many years, how is opening a door, amking you look any better than say another guy you gals might find attracted to? why is it always a guy who has to have "chivalry"?

Men have to be chivalrous to compensate for the fact that women have to menstruate and are responsible for grunting out babies to keep the world populated. ;D Seriously, I'd gladly open doors and pick up the tab if it meant I would never have to endure a monthly cycle of BLOODY HELL again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just sayin.

In addition, although women have "fought" for equal rights, all things said, we are still not equal. Just take a look at average male and female salaries, in addition to who holds positions of power in the business and political arenas.

Kellydancer
06-13-2011, 09:52 AM
But part of the equality is because some women just quit a job if they have kids, whereas men don't. I really despise these women who do this because in a day when most women do keep their jobs the women who abruptly quit make it look bad on all women. I am NOT talking women (and men) who decided to be stay at home parents, I'm talking the ones who had good jobs and never came back from maternity leave (and knew they wouldn't) or those who just took a good job until they had kids. Much different. However, these women are a minority, and no, women shouldn't have to quit their job to have kids either. I cringe when I hear comments from women stating "but a woman needs to stay 2 years at home" or "mothers shouldn't work". Says who? I know plenty of women who went back after maternity leave.

That aside, yes women are still discriminated against in the workplace, which is why I am always glad to hear women suing for this. If more women sued employers would think twice about paying less. My former employer paid me less than my male coworkers and it caused a lot of stress in my life. People often say this means employers hire less women, but I would think an employer not really hiring women would also be a lawsuit. I also think part of it is women don't push hard enough for their rights. I feel if more women really fought against gender roles this would help. It would in fact help everyone because then people wouldn't feel pigeon holed into a role they dislike, whatever it is.

Getting back to another point from BigJosh, he mentions nice guys and this brought up something I see online and in real life. I often hear men I know complaining about having a hard time finding a girl. I see this online too. However, I'll then look at their profile and they are usually too picky. You should have standards, but if you are a 4, you won't get a 10. Many of these men are overweight, unattractive, not wealthy, etc yet want a 18-25 woman who's slim, attractive, etc. That's why they aren't getting what they want. Guys are often told they can have any woman they want, whereas women are told to settle and also that we NEED to be married. Look at how unmarried women versus unmarried men are treated. Much different. Unmarried men are often taken care of by people whereas unmarried women aren't.

tampadancer
06-13-2011, 11:54 AM
But part of the equality is because some women just quit a job if they have kids, whereas men don't. I really despise these women who do this because in a day when most women do keep their jobs the women who abruptly quit make it look bad on all women. I am NOT talking women (and men) who decided to be stay at home parents, I'm talking the ones who had good jobs and never came back from maternity leave (and knew they wouldn't) or those who just took a good job until they had kids. Much different. However, these women are a minority, and no, women shouldn't have to quit their job to have kids either. I cringe when I hear comments from women stating "but a woman needs to stay 2 years at home" or "mothers shouldn't work". Says who? I know plenty of women who went back after maternity leave.


Guys are often told they can have any woman they want, whereas women are told to settle and also that we NEED to be married. Look at how unmarried women versus unmarried men are treated. Much different. Unmarried men are often taken care of by people whereas unmarried women aren't.

I'm not really following your logic here, Kelly. What is the difference between women who become stay-at-home moms and those who don't return to work after having children? Aren't they the same thing?

Also, I think that it's a little harsh to say you "despise" women who quit their jobs after having kids. Personally, I don't plan to have kids, so I don't plan to be in this position. And while I think I'm the type who would want to to return to work if I had kids, it's hard for me to say for sure without having them. Everyone says kids change things.

In addition, OFTENTIMES, women stay home with the kids because it is cheaper than paying for childcare (in other words, the woman's salary would not be much higher, if at all, than the cost of daycare). Since men typically make more (THAT is inequality), they remain at work while the mother stays home.

Part of the inequality in the workforce is indeed due to the expectation that women are the primary nurturers and caretakers of children. Now we could get into a debate on whether that is an innate biological or learned social role, but that isn't my point.

Finally, I do not understand what you mean when you say "Unmarried men are often taken care of by people whereas unmarried women aren't." Because it seems the opposite to me... can you give an example of what you mean?

Kellydancer
06-13-2011, 01:10 PM
I'm not really following your logic here, Kelly. What is the difference between women who become stay-at-home moms and those who don't return to work after having children? Aren't they the same thing?

Also, I think that it's a little harsh to say you "despise" women who quit their jobs after having kids. Personally, I don't plan to have kids, so I don't plan to be in this position. And while I think I'm the type who would want to to return to work if I had kids, it's hard for me to say for sure without having them. Everyone says kids change things.

In addition, OFTENTIMES, women stay home with the kids because it is cheaper than paying for childcare (in other words, the woman's salary would not be much higher, if at all, than the cost of daycare). Since men typically make more (THAT is inequality), they remain at work while the mother stays home.

Part of the inequality in the workforce is indeed due to the expectation that women are the primary nurturers and caretakers of children. Now we could get into a debate on whether that is an innate biological or learned social role, but that isn't my point.

Finally, I do not understand what you mean when you say "Unmarried men are often taken care of by people whereas unmarried women aren't." Because it seems the opposite to me... can you give an example of what you mean?

The difference between the two groups is that some women go on maternity leave knowing they won't come back but don't let employers know they aren't until they are due back. That's what I meant. I don't care if a woman stays home or not, but my biggest gripe about it is when people assume women should stay at home, though she's happier working.

I know I am not the type to stay at home myself because I've always loved working. However, when it comes to people staying at home instead pf paying childcare the same amount they would make, then that makes sense to stay at home. In my case I've usually made much more than it would cost to pay someone to babysit. Also in my case my parents are retired and would love to babysit and have said as much. I also would never have a baby unless my husband was equally involved. Way too many women (including working women)take over all the chores with a baby while dad does nothing. In my religious classes this one guy became a dad and did nothing to take care of the baby. His wife breastfed, his wife changed diapers, she got up with the baby, she bathed him. He didn't take a day off from work. I understand he couldn't nurse but really, changing diapers or giving a bath?

There are many reasons why people assume the woman is the caregiver and nurturer and in many cases it's pure sexism. For instance often childless women make less money right out of college. I think it's also like racism where people in control (mostly white men) tend to hire like themselves. What about the women who never have kids or those with non chauvinist men? What if her husband stays at home or makes less than her? I have a masters and have made more than most guys I dated.

What I mean that unmarried men are taken care of is that people often feel sorry for them and make dinners, maybe go over to clean their house, but how often do they do this for women? Rarely. People just assume women can cook and clean but don't for single men. Not just that but single men aren't made fun of but single women often are.

BIGJosh
06-13-2011, 07:21 PM
Big Josh, I can't speak for other women, but I have paid for dates and have no problem with it. My only problem is when I go out on a date and he expects me to pay for him though he asked me out! Have had this happen.

This can be answered by looking @ it from a guys perspective as well? I mean, I know it's "the guys job" to pay for a date.....but, does he have to do that all of the time, you know? if a girl digs a guy, and asks him out, why shouldne she pay for him? There's nothing wrong with that IMO. Im sure you've been in that situation you speak of? Im sorry thats happened to you, but, like I said, Imagine you being a guy for asecond, and having to pay for everything ALL the time? it almost feels like you're being taken advantage of? especially, when it's by someone(man/woman) who doesnt ever say "thanks" or "I appreciate it". I think you get what im trying to say.






Also, while many women want the bad boy, many of us have had trouble finding good guys. There aren't that many good guys out there, and I'm sure that's the same for women.



Love, this is the million dollar question. men are just as befuddled when it comes to finding a "nice girl", as all they ever talk about it seems, is that they have found bad ones? Like that saying" all men are dogs"....Or, "all women are whores".....Not true in either circumstance. Maybe the guys/gals we seek are that way? I dont know...we lower our standards maybe? or our standards are too high? ALOT of nice guys out there, you just have to be willing to look @ them from the inside, as well as the outside. Sure, every girl wants to date a guy that looks like Johnny Depp, or Brad Pitt(examples), but, lets be realistic here, those guys are taken. There are a number of "good guys/gals" out there, we just have to stop with the blinders thing, and seek them out. In MY experiences as a guy, I find that most women dont want "nice guys", despite claiming they do. Most women have unreal expectatipons of a man, and vice versa. Also, IMO, most men are afraid to approach/talk to beautiful women, as they feel as if they're "out of their league" automatically? Its a tough dating world my dear...trust me, I know.;)



The reason women cheat on the so called "nice guy" is because he really isn't. I cheated on an ex and he was an abusive alcoholic. Most of the so called nice guys are just ugly guys with awful personalities. If a guy is ugly he has to have a great personality and rarely do they. And remember when guys complain about dating a nasty woman, there are women complaining there aren't good guys out there. These guys get what they deserve because sometimes they break the heart of a girl who loves them to be with a girl who wants to use them. Screw them they are getting theirs.



Cant argue with you there at all my beautiful friend, but, keep in mind too, there are many "nasty women" out there, who are canniving, and seek out $$$$, and men who have lots of it. Makes ALOT of guys shy away from marriage, or being faithful/etc. I know that sounds like an excuse, but it's true. Most men are scared shitless to marry a woman, in fear, if it doesnt work out, the woman's gonna clean him out? "alimony's" gotten WAY outta whack here. But, if you cheat on your SO, then you shouldnt get anything.

Ive had my heart broken too my dear...many a time, all by a "nice girl". So, it definitely works both ways. I've never "cheated" on anyone I've dated, not once...ever. I'd rather you break up with me, and then do your business, than cheat while dating me, only fair, right? I know it's not that simple, but you guys/gals know what im saying....




Btw, I've never done drugs (except tried pot a few times)and wasn't sleeping with every man I knew. I was pretty level headed most times.



Not saying YOU specifically love, but in general. Yes, there are some shitbaggy men out there, and there are some nasty women too. Not all, mind you, but, if you're willing to dodge the land mines, and stick it out, Im sure you'll eventually, NOT be disappointed with the results?

BIGJosh
06-13-2011, 07:26 PM
Men have to be chivalrous to compensate for the fact that women have to menstruate and are responsible for grunting out babies to keep the world populated. ;D Seriously, I'd gladly open doors and pick up the tab if it meant I would never have to endure a monthly cycle of BLOODY HELL again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just sayin.

In addition, although women have "fought" for equal rights, all things said, we are still not equal. Just take a look at average male and female salaries, in addition to who holds positions of power in the business and political arenas.


Good post. Not all women want to have kids.....(had to throw that in there to say:P to you,;D).

BIGJosh
06-13-2011, 07:35 PM
But part of the equality is because some women just quit a job if they have kids, whereas men don't. I really despise these women who do this because in a day when most women do keep their jobs the women who abruptly quit make it look bad on all women. I am NOT talking women (and men) who decided to be stay at home parents, I'm talking the ones who had good jobs and never came back from maternity leave (and knew they wouldn't) or those who just took a good job until they had kids. Much different. However, these women are a minority, and no, women shouldn't have to quit their job to have kids either. I cringe when I hear comments from women stating "but a woman needs to stay 2 years at home" or "mothers shouldn't work". Says who? I know plenty of women who went back after maternity leave.

That aside, yes women are still discriminated against in the workplace, which is why I am always glad to hear women suing for this. If more women sued employers would think twice about paying less. My former employer paid me less than my male coworkers and it caused a lot of stress in my life. People often say this means employers hire less women, but I would think an employer not really hiring women would also be a lawsuit. I also think part of it is women don't push hard enough for their rights. I feel if more women really fought against gender roles this would help. It would in fact help everyone because then people wouldn't feel pigeon holed into a role they dislike, whatever it is.

Getting back to another point from BigJosh, he mentions nice guys and this brought up something I see online and in real life. I often hear men I know complaining about having a hard time finding a girl. I see this online too. However, I'll then look at their profile and they are usually too picky. You should have standards, but if you are a 4, you won't get a 10. Many of these men are overweight, unattractive, not wealthy, etc yet want a 18-25 woman who's slim, attractive, etc. That's why they aren't getting what they want. Guys are often told they can have any woman they want, whereas women are told to settle and also that we NEED to be married. Look at how unmarried women versus unmarried men are treated. Much different. Unmarried men are often taken care of by people whereas unmarried women aren't.
You make great points love, all the way through. Also, keep in mind, that there are women out there, who's sole purpose in life, is to try to extract as much $$$$, or get as much shit as they can, from a man. This is big time wrong IMO. I hear some women here saying they have "sugar daddies" and complaining when one of them doesnt buy them everything their hearts desire, or doesnt give them a ton of $$$? I have no right to say anything to them, but i will offer them this one piece of advice: If the situation was reversed, and it was a guy using you as a "sugar momma", would YOU like it, if he did that to YOU? or maybe your borther, friend, dad, etc? doubtful. Just remember: if you dont want it done to you, shouldnt do it to others.

I agree, wholeheartedly with your post, and Im laughing reading it, because it's mostly spot on. Im 40, and I'd be glad to just find a nice woman, who likes me for me, and not for what i can do for her, or give her. Im sure you and many others are the same way, in wanting that type of man? I wish you ladies all the luck in the world finding your one main man. Remember: "if he/she doesnt like you for who you are, then he/she's not good enough for you".


Have a great day. (PS, Kellydancer-one of those "4's" you're talking about? *might* just be that "nice guy" you're looking for? take a chance....he could be all that you seek, and maybe lacking a bit in the looks dept?) Just sayin.....

Kellydancer
06-13-2011, 09:16 PM
Love, this is the million dollar question. men are just as befuddled when it comes to finding a "nice girl", as all they ever talk about it seems, is that they have found bad ones? Like that saying" all men are dogs"....Or, "all women are whores".....Not true in either circumstance. Maybe the guys/gals we seek are that way? I dont know...we lower our standards maybe? or our standards are too high? ALOT of nice guys out there, you just have to be willing to look @ them from the inside, as well as the outside. Sure, every girl wants to date a guy that looks like Johnny Depp, or Brad Pitt(examples), but, lets be realistic here, those guys are taken. There are a number of "good guys/gals" out there, we just have to stop with the blinders thing, and seek them out. In MY experiences as a guy, I find that most women dont want "nice guys", despite claiming they do. Most women have unreal expectatipons of a man, and vice versa. Also, IMO, most men are afraid to approach/talk to beautiful women, as they feel as if they're "out of their league" automatically? Its a tough dating world my dear...trust me, I know.;)

I do think men are afraid to talk to the beautiful girls and they shouldn't be. I am not one of those women who is nasty when a guy comes up to me unless he's nasty. By nasty I mean he says something sexual or rude. The men I tend to be attracted to aren't the hot guys. In fact I'm often told I date below my standards. However, many men also don't look at many women beyond the looks, which they need to, especially if unattractive. It's not fair, but it's life.





Cant argue with you there at all my beautiful friend, but, keep in mind too, there are many "nasty women" out there, who are canniving, and seek out $$$$, and men who have lots of it. Makes ALOT of guys shy away from marriage, or being faithful/etc. I know that sounds like an excuse, but it's true. Most men are scared shitless to marry a woman, in fear, if it doesnt work out, the woman's gonna clean him out? "alimony's" gotten WAY outta whack here. But, if you cheat on your SO, then you shouldnt get anything.

Agreed. I've seen women do this, including my last ex who went from desperately wanting marriage to never wanting it because of being used. I am of the belief that alimony should go both ways and only in extreme cases. My uncle got screwed over by one of these women and he was bitter for years.


Ive had my heart broken too my dear...many a time, all by a "nice girl". So, it definitely works both ways. I've never "cheated" on anyone I've dated, not once...ever. I'd rather you break up with me, and then do your business, than cheat while dating me, only fair, right? I know it's not that simple, but you guys/gals know what im saying....

I only cheated on the one boyfriend and he was awful. Oddly he found out and was fine with it and wanted a threesome. We were splitting up then too which makes a difference.



Not saying YOU specifically love, but in general. Yes, there are some shitbaggy men out there, and there are some nasty women too. Not all, mind you, but, if you're willing to dodge the land mines, and stick it out, Im sure you'll eventually, NOT be disappointed with the results?

True, but it takes time.

Kellydancer
06-13-2011, 09:20 PM
You make great points love, all the way through. Also, keep in mind, that there are women out there, who's sole purpose in life, is to try to extract as much $$$$, or get as much shit as they can, from a man. This is big time wrong IMO. I hear some women here saying they have "sugar daddies" and complaining when one of them doesnt buy them everything their hearts desire, or doesnt give them a ton of $$$? I have no right to say anything to them, but i will offer them this one piece of advice: If the situation was reversed, and it was a guy using you as a "sugar momma", would YOU like it, if he did that to YOU? or maybe your borther, friend, dad, etc? doubtful. Just remember: if you dont want it done to you, shouldnt do it to others.

I agree, wholeheartedly with your post, and Im laughing reading it, because it's mostly spot on. Im 40, and I'd be glad to just find a nice woman, who likes me for me, and not for what i can do for her, or give her. Im sure you and many others are the same way, in wanting that type of man? I wish you ladies all the luck in the world finding your one main man. Remember: "if he/she doesnt like you for who you are, then he/she's not good enough for you".


Have a great day. (PS, Kellydancer-one of those "4's" you're talking about? *might* just be that "nice guy" you're looking for? take a chance....he could be all that you seek, and maybe lacking a bit in the looks dept?) Just sayin.....

The whole sugar daddy thing I often see here makes me cringe. If both are on the same page, then it's fine, but if one thinks it's more than it is is another issue. I had a sugar daddy myself but it was much different than people often mention because it was a situation where I would go places with him and never had sex. We both knew it was a temporary situation.

I would give a 4 a chance. In fact my ex was likely a 4. My only problem with a 4 are the guys trying to get more than they are. Most people realize that you can't be too pick in some cases. I had a friend who was obese, smelly, unemployed, etc yet wanted a hot blonde. He couldn't figure out why at 50 he's single.

BIGJosh
06-13-2011, 10:01 PM
The whole sugar daddy thing I often see here makes me cringe. If both are on the same page, then it's fine, but if one thinks it's more than it is is another issue. I had a sugar daddy myself but it was much different than people often mention because it was a situation where I would go places with him and never had sex. We both knew it was a temporary situation.

I would give a 4 a chance. In fact my ex was likely a 4. My only problem with a 4 are the guys trying to get more than they are. Most people realize that you can't be too pick in some cases. I had a friend who was obese, smelly, unemployed, etc yet wanted a hot blonde. He couldn't figure out why at 50 he's single.


No arguements there at all, and I can understand too, why he was single? (I love the "smelly" thing:D). If you both go into it knowing what you're going to get out of it, then I have no issues with it. Its the ones who, as you said, expect more from them, and then, when they don't get it, wonder why, and bitch about it.


LOL, I think your friend is delusional? Im no Brad Pitt myself, but Im not ugly by any means either. Im about a 6-7, and that might be too kind, LOL.(People have said I look a bit like Hugh Jackman-whatever I guess).


Just today, I saw this beautiful Cindy Crawford type look-a-like in the mall, walking w/this dude, who looked like Mr Bean, I was like "WTF??" She seemed/looked happy though. I just stood there, scratching my head.

You have to admit, I see some dancers "lower their standards" BIG TIME sometimes, whenever I meet their bf's/hubbys. They(often times) date these no job having/drug dealer/pill head/video game players, who beat their ass, and take all their money, and for some reason, these women stay with these jackoffs? I just want to ask "why"? I truely dont get it. What I also dont "get", what the turn on is?

Kellydancer
06-13-2011, 10:14 PM
The women you mention have low self esteem I'm sure. I knew a few dancers who dated those guys and I never understood it. Then again I have non stripper friends who did too. Personally I won't lower my standards that low.

The guy who was my friend was delusional and that is why he'll never marry. People that are delusion won't. I wanted to marry a prince, but obvious I had to lower my standards on that because what's the likely chance of that happening? Pretty much zero.

Mr Hyde
06-15-2011, 01:27 PM
Just because some men dont do this, doesnt mean they are "losers", or bad guys. Not be a dick, but, seriously, women have fought to be "equals" for many years, how is opening a door, amking you look any better than say another guy you gals might find attracted to? why is it always a guy who has to have "chivalry"? Do you open doors for him? maybe buy meals from time to time? say "I got this one baby" when the check comes? or do you "expect" all of this stuff, and make it seem like if a guy doesnt do all of the stuff I've mentioned just now, he's "(in your mind) a "loser"?

Maybe that guy has done all of that stuff, and still not gotten respect? Maybe he's done all that, and still been underappreciated? Yes, it is a bit oldfashioned, to see that(and I do that sometimes as well, i:e; open doors/etc), but, you have to earn it, it's like respect, it's not automatically given, it's earned. Nothing wrong with wanting all that, but, if you;'re not enough without all that, you'll never be enough with it.
(
Not trying to start a fight here, but seriously. I get sick of hearing women say "why cant i find a guy who opens doors for me, or does this or does that...blah blah blah", but, when they get said person, they treat them like shit, or cheat on them for some guy who doesn't do all of what you mentioned, you know, the proverbial "bad Boy"? so many women are attracted to?

You should check out Tom Leykis's view on "chivalry" sometimes...it's spot on. Not saying I agree with everything he says, but some things, I do, and on that topic, I DEFINITELY do.

maybe some dancers/entertainers should try to stay: clean and sober, drug/disease free, and stop banging all these guys, b/c they're so fucked up on: coke/crack/meth/X/etc, they dont know wTF they're doing, or who they're doing what with?

Not in any way saying "all women", but lets not leave out those women in this industry I've seen, who have done their fair share of shitting on some guy. I've encountered many entertainers who are unhappy with their personal lives/so's, and stray and do all sorrts of things with people.

Again, not saying all do...but there are quite a few I have seen that do this stuff. How about a girl open a door for a guy? or show up @ his house with a small gift or something? Maybe surprise him @ work one day "just because"? To gget something, you have to give something.

You come off as "expecting" something from a man, thats not good. If thats the way you are? so be it, just dont be disappointed, when you do get what you want, and it's not all it's cracked up to be? I have a feeling, if a guy "expected" certain things from you, and you weren't able to deliver, he'd be upset too? and would have every right to be? not fair if it doesnt work BOTH ways my dear.

Here's Leykis on "Chivalry":

http://youtu.be/afj2gnFiPdA pt 1

http://youtu.be/e3D04Fw7VJo pt 2

http://youtu.be/GIehMliVl0I pt 3

http://youtu.be/bYnichHfdgI pt 4




Just sayin.,...


Well, let's put it like this....let's say your daughter brought home a guy...and here's your first impression of him....

1-when he walks in to your house, he goes first and doesn't hold the door for your daughter.

2-As you and your wife, and your daughter and her new beau sit down, she goes to get him something to drink. She hands it to him, and he just takes it...no "thanks" or anything.

3-He and your daughter are staying at your house for a few days, and they have some luggage. You all go outside to get it, and there is one large bag that is obviously very heavy. She grabs it, and he doesn't offer to bring it inside instead...but carries a small duffle while she struggles in with the big one.

4-You all decide to go to dinner. She drives. He doesn't open her door for her. He doesn't pull out her chair. He orders first, ahead of her. When the food comes, both of their orders are not correct, but he just asks for his to be taken back to the kitchen. She pays the bill, and he doesn't offer anything, even the tip.

5-That night, when you're all sitting around, her BF says "hey babe, get me a beer" and she does it....but gets no please, no thanks...nothing.

This is the guy you want dating your daughter? He better not hit ANY of the other points in my post, and had better otherwise treat her like gold.

Also, that point in my list was a sign of a loser. If he has no sense of chivalry at all...if he treats her like he treats any of his guy friends....that's not a good thing.

Again....think of it like you'd think of who you'd want to date your dauther.

Kellydancer
06-15-2011, 01:31 PM
Mr Hyde, a guy like that is just a jerk with no manners. I have dated men like that and not for long because to me that's just dealing with jerks. I don't think all of that has to do with male/ female but a rude guy who's an user.

lemiwinks31
06-15-2011, 01:36 PM
Well, let's put it like this....let's say your daughter brought home a guy...and here's your first impression of him....

1-when he walks in to your house, he goes first and doesn't hold the door for your daughter.

2-As you and your wife, and your daughter and her new beau sit down, she goes to get him something to drink. She hands it to him, and he just takes it...no "thanks" or anything.

3-He and your daughter are staying at your house for a few days, and they have some luggage. You all go outside to get it, and there is one large bag that is obviously very heavy. She grabs it, and he doesn't offer to bring it inside instead...but carries a small duffle while she struggles in with the big one.

4-You all decide to go to dinner. She drives. He doesn't open her door for her. He doesn't pull out her chair. He orders first, ahead of her. When the food comes, both of their orders are not correct, but he just asks for his to be taken back to the kitchen. She pays the bill, and he doesn't offer anything, even the tip.

5-That night, when you're all sitting around, her BF says "hey babe, get me a beer" and she does it....but gets no please, no thanks...nothing.

This is the guy you want dating your daughter? He better not hit ANY of the other points in my post, and had better otherwise treat her like gold.

Also, that point in my list was a sign of a loser. If he has no sense of chivalry at all...if he treats her like he treats any of his guy friends....that's not a good thing.

Again....think of it like you'd think of who you'd want to date your dauther.



I dont want anyone to date my daughter.>:(

Mr Hyde
06-15-2011, 01:45 PM
I think I'm getting a little more of what BigJosh is saying, so for you BigJosh....signs that the girl you're dating is a loser...

1-She thinks she is a princess and demands to be treated like one, and throws angry fits when she doesn't get what she wants. She is spoiled.

2-She gets ridiculously drunk in public situations and yells at you. She often does things in public that are embarrassing while she's drunk, like pick fights her friends, strangers etc and then expect you to back her up....or she'll openly flirt with other guys right in front of you...get thrown out by a bouncer...etc

3-She can't hold a job and it's never her fault.

4-She has had multiple children by multiple men and has never been married to any of them. She is reckless with her womb. She does not practice sound birth control and doesn't care.

5-She has ever used a pregnancy to try to trap a man. She has lied to someone about being pregnant or paternity.

6-She makes and breaks plans with you on a whim. She is always looking for the bigger, better thing. You're her backup plan for when she can't get what she really wants.

7-She has no ambition in life, no idea what she wants in the future and doesn't care. The next big party or whatever is all she cares about and those sorts of concerns are her main life priorities.

8-Your family and friends tell you that she's not good for you.

9-She has no idea about money, how to earn it, save it, spend it wisely, and doesn't care. She values expensive things but doesn't understand/care about their actual value. She is a spendthrift but doesn't have the means to be one.

10-She is a gold digger that uses men and they don't realize it (note...this is not the same as a sugardaddy relationship where both parties go in eyes wide open).


11-She is a mooch. She contributes nothing to your relationship monetarily. She expects YOU to pay for every dime of what you both spend.

12-She is not grateful for what you do for her. She does nothing small and nice for you to make your life easier. She never fixes you dinner or anything like that.

Kellydancer
06-15-2011, 01:56 PM
I think I'm getting a little more of what BigJosh is saying, so for you BigJosh....signs that the girl you're dating is a loser...

1-She thinks she is a princess and demands to be treated like one, and throws angry fits when she doesn't get what she wants. She is spoiled.

2-She gets ridiculously drunk in public situations and yells at you. She often does things in public that are embarrassing while she's drunk, like pick fights her friends, strangers etc and then expect you to back her up....or she'll openly flirt with other guys right in front of you...get thrown out by a bouncer...etc

3-She can't hold a job and it's never her fault.

4-She has had multiple children by multiple men and has never been married to any of them. She is reckless with her womb. She does not practice sound birth control and doesn't care.

5-She has ever used a pregnancy to try to trap a man. She has lied to someone about being pregnant or paternity.

6-She makes and breaks plans with you on a whim. She is always looking for the bigger, better thing. You're her backup plan for when she can't get what she really wants.

7-She has no ambition in life, no idea what she wants in the future and doesn't care. The next big party or whatever is all she cares about and those sorts of concerns are her main life priorities.

8-Your family and friends tell you that she's not good for you.

9-She has no idea about money, how to earn it, save it, spend it wisely, and doesn't care. She values expensive things but doesn't understand/care about their actual value. She is a spendthrift but doesn't have the means to be one.

10-She is a gold digger that uses men and they don't realize it (note...this is not the same as a sugardaddy relationship where both parties go in eyes wide open).


11-She is a mooch. She contributes nothing to your relationship monetarily. She expects YOU to pay for every dime of what you both spend.

12-She is not grateful for what you do for her. She does nothing small and nice for you to make your life easier. She never fixes you dinner or anything like that.

Great list but I will fess up in my 20's I did 1, 5 (I wasn't pregnant, just lied), and 9. I am not like this now though because I grew up.

What I don't get are the guys who keep getting used by gold diggers, complain all women are like this, turn down good women, then find another gold digger.

Mr Hyde
06-15-2011, 09:41 PM
Some things on both of those lists can change with age...and people can change. I'm not saying I'm an expert on losers, but those can be good guides to assess whether you're with someone that is good for you or not at this stage in your life.

As someone in another post said, the person that you choose to be your BF/GF/Spouse/SO should be the type of person where, when you're together, you make each other better. It should be an equal relationship where you both help each other...build each other up...etc. It should NOT be an unbalanced or one-sided deal where you are being taken advantage of. If you feel like you're in a relationship where you're not a better person for being with your partner, you need to GTFO.

dreamer1980
06-16-2011, 12:10 AM
What I don't get are the guys who keep getting used by gold diggers, complain all women are like this, turn down good women, then find another gold digger.

similar to when a girl keeps going out with dudes who dont really care for them, say all guys are dicks, turn down good men, then go hook up with another douchebag. lol ;D

im sure its the "girls like bad boys" and "men love bitches" mentality. they want what others want too.

miss1dancypants
06-16-2011, 07:30 AM
i think the stats are all true.

this article says a lot about being positive and how positive women are more likely to marry... sometimes i get worried because i'm such a negative nancy, but i'm not one to sugarcoat things and pretend like everything is lollipops and and rainbows. i don't think of myself as pessimistic, i think of myself as realistic. some people who are "optimists" just DON'T want to face the facts, and are blind to some realities of life. sometimes you need to realize that things aren't perfect, man up, and either fix it or move on. to me, that's realistic and not pessimistic.


could this kind of attitude hurt me in the future? :/

jack0177057
06-16-2011, 08:01 AM
What I don't get are the guys who keep getting used by gold diggers, complain all women are like this, turn down good women, then find another gold digger.

If the guy is in his 40s or older, flaunts his wealth, and insists on dating only 20-something blonde bombshells with big fake boobs, - he is probably going to be dating gold diggers.

Also, - the guys that love to brag about their money, possessions, success, etc. to attract women - are going to end up with women who are mostly attacted to that, i.e., gold diggers. Any woman who is not a gold-digger, will be turned off by such a man.

jack0177057
06-16-2011, 08:08 AM
i think the stats are all true.

this article says a lot about being positive and how positive women are more likely to marry... sometimes i get worried because i'm such a negative nancy, but i'm not one to sugarcoat things and pretend like everything is lollipops and and rainbows. i don't think of myself as pessimistic, i think of myself as realistic. some people who are "optimists" just DON'T want to face the facts, and are blind to some realities of life. sometimes you need to realize that things aren't perfect, man up, and either fix it or move on. to me, that's realistic and not pessimistic.


could this kind of attitude hurt me in the future? :/

I think it depends who you attract and are attracted to. If you tend to date people with a creative, artistic, whimsical or "dreamer" mind, you will clash because your "realism" will probably be a real mood killer and not the kind of inspiration or encouragement they need to develop. On the other hand, if you tend to date people who are realistic like you (I'm this way, too), it shouldn't have any adverse consequence.

Kellydancer
06-16-2011, 11:18 AM
I'm not disagreeing with you Mr Hyde, because back in my early 20's I was a mess and not marriage material. I did a lot of foolish things I feel I am still paying the price about, namely not finding a man I want.



similar to when a girl keeps going out with dudes who dont really care for them, say all guys are dicks, turn down good men, then go hook up with another douchebag. lol ;D

im sure its the "girls like bad boys" and "men love bitches" mentality. they want what others want too.

I suppose but I would hope people would outgrow this behavior. Then again the whole nice guy thing is subjective. People often ask why I would bypass a nice guy and in most cases he's really not a nice guy. Also, he may be a nice guy but has issues that he needs to work on, namely being clingy. I am finding a lot of men who are clingy with me, like guys I date one time and think we are an item.


If the guy is in his 40s or older, flaunts his wealth, and insists on dating only 20-something blonde bombshells with big fake boobs, - he is probably going to be dating gold diggers.

Also, - the guys that love to brag about their money, possessions, success, etc. to attract women - are going to end up with women who are mostly attacted to that, i.e., gold diggers. Any woman who is not a gold-digger, will be turned off by such a man.

I know a few men like that and am turned off by it. In fact I loathe these types of people. My only problem with these idiots is too many men think because guys like Hefner can get these women they can too. The amount of online profiles from men being very picky is many. You'd think by their 40's these men would learn but they don't, which is why they then complain they can't find someone. Duh, if they loosened restrictions on shallow things they may find someone. Yet in this society if women are "picky" they are often attacked. I don't date dads, I stress this in my online profiles, but the amount of dads who still respond is astounding. Then when I reject them I get people (online and off) telling me I should have overlooked this. Why should I overlook an issue that I can't deal with and won't be able to deal with ever? This is much different than if I stated I would only date dark haired men.

sparky72
06-16-2011, 02:40 PM
The problem with women these days is that they are letting guys get away with too much. Guys LOVE booty call arrangements, and FWB arrangements. What guy WOULDN'T want NSA sex?

Too many women hang all over losers, guys without jobs or direction, or who treat them like shit. Not all women, but enough that it fucks it up for everyone else.

Guys are about as committed as women will let them be. If you all start demanding more of men, they'd respond.

In some ways, the sexual revolution fucked things up for you all. All that sexual freedom backfired to a degree....now, guys can have sex all they want with women and don't have to commit to get it. Before, men had to work hard to prove that they were capable of supporting a family in order to attract a woman. Now? Guys can live at home with their parents, have no job, spend all day playing video games in their mid-twenties, and somehow, get a girl to bang them. WTF?

Whenever I hear someone say "I wouldn't demand that he marry me" I think "you may as well break up with right now then." If the expectation of marriage isn't there, he ain't gonna do it. It sounds trite, but the old adage of "why buy the cow when you get the milk for free" still holds true.

I am not so sure its the sexual revolution but more due to financial reasons. I work a lot with young female nurses who have an altitude of I already am capable of supporting a family so why should a male's ability or inability to support a family matter ? Any male I pick up is just a boy toy

miss1dancypants
06-18-2011, 11:23 AM
I think it depends who you attract and are attracted to. If you tend to date people with a creative, artistic, whimsical or "dreamer" mind, you will clash because your "realism" will probably be a real mood killer and not the kind of inspiration or encouragement they need to develop. On the other hand, if you tend to date people who are realistic like you (I'm this way, too), it shouldn't have any adverse consequence.

true. i'm with an engineer so i think it works. LOL

sparky72
06-19-2011, 07:07 AM
Consider unpolished jewels, men who are just as nice, intelligent, hard-working, and successful, but lack looks, height, or social skills.
a. 88% of men over 50 who were marrying for the first time were marrying divorced women. The women told the researchers that they had already tried the tall, suave, type, and he didn’t make a very good husband.


Based on other articles I read a female doesnt considered a male successful unless he makes more money. The one thing I seen gets brought up is rich females and poor males are the ones who are the least likely to get married

BIGJosh
06-22-2011, 11:26 PM
I think I'm getting a little more of what BigJosh is saying, so for you BigJosh....signs that the girl you're dating is a loser...

1-She thinks she is a princess and demands to be treated like one, and throws angry fits when she doesn't get what she wants. She is spoiled.


You must know my last ex gf? spot on X1000. Nothing was ever good enough for her, and she ALWAYS wanted more(the more expensive, the better)



2-She gets ridiculously drunk in public situations and yells at you. She often does things in public that are embarrassing while she's drunk, like pick fights her friends, strangers etc and then expect you to back her up....or she'll openly flirt with other guys right in front of you...get thrown out by a bouncer...etc


LOL, spot on again.




8-Your family and friends tell you that she's not good for you.


My family/friends HATED HER.



9-She has no idea about money, how to earn it, save it, spend it wisely, and doesn't care. She values expensive things but doesn't understand/care about their actual value. She is a spendthrift but doesn't have the means to be one.


"kinda" her...she wanted EVERYTHING.......and the things she wanted, were usually expensive. When you didnt buy them for her, you're a "loser" or "piece of shit", and "she never got what she wanted", despite having a closet full of expensiove clothes, shoes, and always had nice jewelry on. She wanted a $300 coffee maker, even though, she doesnt drink coffee. had a little tv in it, and a radio. I asked her" why would you want that, you dont even drink coffee?" Her "I just want it....it looks nice". I proceeded to hear about it for the next 3 weeks when i didn't buy it fo0r her("you never buy me anything"), yet, had just went out and bought her a Tiffany's Bracelet(she asked me where the necklace was?), I said "next time"...she got even more pissed. Lets just say...Im glad she's outta my hair for good, and someone else's problem to deal with now. She NEVER appreciated anything I did/bought for her.





11-She is a mooch. She contributes nothing to your relationship monetarily. She expects YOU to pay for every dime of what you both spend.


Most women today......Not all, but most. Shouldnt be that way, but it is.




12-She is not grateful for what you do for her. She does nothing small and nice for you to make your life easier. She never fixes you dinner or anything like that.


Yep, you know my last ex gf......:D

Kellydancer
06-22-2011, 11:35 PM
BigJosh I'm not a mooch, but yep many women are. I think the one about what your family thinks of your other half is important. Too many people marry ones their family hates. Rarely do these last.

BIGJosh
06-22-2011, 11:55 PM
BigJosh I'm not a mooch, but yep many women are. I think the one about what your family thinks of your other half is important. Too many people marry ones their family hates. Rarely do these last.

Spot on love. My friends HHHAAAATTTTEEEED her.I take their opinions very seriously, and good, as they're all like my brothers. My sisters hated her too.


I know yo0u're "not a mooch" love, and I didnt say you were, but, dating today is much harder than in the past. There are alot of folks(men and women), who fuck it up for others, by doing shitbaggy stuff to others. Makes people not want to get serious w/someone.

Confession time: Truthfully, Im one of those "scared shitless men" who are scared to death to get married to someone, in fear, if it doesnt work out, and she just wakes up one morning and says "I dont want to be with you anymore...I want a divorce", that she'll take me for all I have. I'm 41, and only 1 of my close friends is married.....the rest have my mindset. Sad to say, but thats true. The minute things dont work out between a /married couple, I'd say 95% of the time, it turns into" I wonder how much i can take him for"?

If you BOTH became successful after you got married? then, splitting stuff is no problem IMO. But, if a guy has say $5 mill in the bank BEFORE MEETING YOU, and you dont feel you want to stay with that person, why should you "alll of a sudden", get half? Its like these women(and usually their friends, who talk to them/complain to them about this), say"So and so can afford it"...not the point.....

Like I said....women should put themselves into that situation for just a second. Why should you have to fork over half of everything you own to a guy if it didnt work out? You shouldnt...so, if you dont like it done to you, dont do it to someone else? Not directed towards you(Kellydancer), but these delusional women, who feel they have to take a man for all he's got. Then, wonder later why they "cant find a good man"? Or, why so many men dont want to get married.....

Kellydancer
06-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Spot on love. My friends HHHAAAATTTTEEEED her.I take their opinions very seriously, and good, as they're all like my brothers. My sisters hated her too.


I know yo0u're "not a mooch" love, and I didnt say you were, but, dating today is much harder than in the past. There are alot of folks(men and women), who fuck it up for others, by doing shitbaggy stuff to others. Makes people not want to get serious w/someone.

Confession time: Truthfully, Im one of those "scared shitless men" who are scared to death to get married to someone, in fear, if it doesnt work out, and she just wakes up one morning and says "I dont want to be with you anymore...I want a divorce", that she'll take me for all I have. I'm 41, and only 1 of my close friends is married.....the rest have my mindset. Sad to say, but thats true. The minute things dont work out between a /married couple, I'd say 95% of the time, it turns into" I wonder how much i can take him for"?

If you BOTH became successful after you got married? then, splitting stuff is no problem IMO. But, if a guy has say $5 mill in the bank BEFORE MEETING YOU, and you dont feel you want to stay with that person, why should you "alll of a sudden", get half? Its like these women(and usually their friends, who talk to them/complain to them about this), say"So and so can afford it"...not the point.....

Like I said....women should put themselves into that situation for just a second. Why should you have to fork over half of everything you own to a guy if it didnt work out? You shouldnt...so, if you dont like it done to you, dont do it to someone else? Not directed towards you(Kellydancer), but these delusional women, who feel they have to take a man for all he's got. Then, wonder later why they "cant find a good man"? Or, why so many men dont want to get married.....

I know that's why my last guy left, because he was afraid of getting stung. He didn't have a lot of money but his last girlfriend took him for a ride and only wanted him because he spent money. Needless to say when we reconnected he felt like women use him. I hope in time he gets over it (even if it's not for me) because I would hate to go through life alone because of fear.

I know I've mentioned this before but I also got screwed financially by a man and it took me 10 years to recover financially and emotionally. In the meantime I lost a company I was building and my sense of trust. I will never recover my sense of trust completely and even if I marry there are things I will not do again, like joint accounts or credit cards in his name. Sadly, right after this guy I met the sweetest guy on the planet but couldn't trust him and we broke up partially because of this (we are still friends). This guy actually made me trust men again but even so the trust I had at 24 will never be 100% there.

Now of course with online dating there are more of the users out there with both genders. The amount of loser guys I am seeing online is astounding. I've found out a few were married and met a few con artists. I can see why people are afraid with so many jerks out there. Personally, I feel what is his and mine before marriage stays that way.

jack0177057
06-23-2011, 02:25 PM
The OP was very interesting but I don't know if I believe the whole "insisting on marriage" or even "insisting on mongamy" things....I have always believed that the man has to be the one to bring these topics up, because if a woman forces him into a commitment, he won't like it or respect it.

I tend to agree with this, but I'm curious - What if he doesn't bring it up? A young woman in her 20s can probably afford to wait for him to decide, at his leisure, about their future together. But, if you are 30 to 35, will you give a man 5 years to bring up marriage?

What is the longest you would wait for him to bring it up... and what do you do if he doesn't? If you tell him you are leaving because he hasn't proposed, it seems like a manipulative ploy (indirectly "insisting on marriage"). So, do you leave, without telling him why?

girlfromipanema
06-23-2011, 02:48 PM
The OP was very interesting but I don't know if I believe the whole "insisting on marriage" or even "insisting on mongamy" things....I have always believed that the man has to be the one to bring these topics up, because if a woman forces him into a commitment, he won't like it or respect it.

Of course there are exceptions, but most likely a modern Western man would rather put off marriage for as long as he can. Since the Women's Liberation Movement and the rise of the manbaby (see Kevin Smith movies) marriage and other grown-up issues are the farthest thing from their minds, whether they have dated a woman for 1 year or 5. If we don't bring it up they will likely breathe a sigh of relief and continue to enjoy themselves at the expense of our reproductive years.

Optimist
06-23-2011, 03:15 PM
Of course there are exceptions, but most likely a modern Western man would rather put off marriage for as long as he can. Since the Women's Liberation Movement and the rise of the manbaby (see Kevin Smith movies) marriage and other grown-up issues are the farthest thing from their minds, whether they have dated a woman for 1 year or 5. If we don't bring it up they will likely breathe a sigh of relief and continue to enjoy themselves at the expense of our reproductive years.

I think a guy who is a manbaby should be left if the woman wants marriage and kids. He's not necessarily wrong for not wanting marriage and kids but he is wrong if he's dishonest about it. I suspect there are a lot of people male and female who would not have had kids if they had the choice. So with Women's Lib those who don't want them aren't socially stigmatized. Maybe we are just seeing the % of willing marrieds go to their natural level.

Kellydancer
06-23-2011, 03:32 PM
This is why I want to bring it up right away. I'm not saying on a first date "hey let's get married". Just that within a few dates if it seems to be good, kind of mention I am looking to eventually get married. My experience is that the guys who want this too often bring it up before I do. I have a few male friends who were desperate to marry and they told their now wives on the first date not to waste time if this isn't what one wants. This is also why I'm trying religious dating groups because religious people tend to want marriage overwhemingly. I'm 40 and I know I can't wait more than a year or two to date if I want to have kids. Basically before I turn 45 I want to be married and have one or two kids because statistically, after 45 it becomes extremely rare to conceive (though I come from a family of change of life babies and late menopause).

girlfromipanema
06-23-2011, 03:46 PM
I think a guy who is a manbaby should be left if the woman wants marriage and kids. He's not necessarily wrong for not wanting marriage and kids but he is wrong if he's dishonest about it. I suspect there are a lot of people male and female who would not have had kids if they had the choice. So with Women's Lib those who don't want them aren't socially stigmatized. Maybe we are just seeing the % of willing marrieds go to their natural level.

Very good point. I didn't think of it that way. I absolutely am indebted to the women who paved the way for me to at least have a CHOICE in whether to marry, reproduce, or not. Life would be a lot harder if I was at the mercy of a man-child!

On the other hand, with the growing acceptance of women in the workplace and greater financial freedom came a rise in single parent households, mostly headed by women. So many men are still making babies, but they are no longer socially required to marry the mother, stick around and raise their family. That sucks for the single mother, the kid, and society.

Kellydancer
06-23-2011, 04:16 PM
Very good point. I didn't think of it that way. I absolutely am indebted to the women who paved the way for me to at least have a CHOICE in whether to marry, reproduce, or not. Life would be a lot harder if I was at the mercy of a man-child!

On the other hand, with the growing acceptance of women in the workplace and greater financial freedom came a rise in single parent households, mostly headed by women. So many men are still making babies, but they are no longer socially required to marry the mother, stick around and raise their family. That sucks for the single mother, the kid, and society.

I am happy women are allowed to have choices, but unfortunately some women have to choose. I would be miserable being a stay at home wife and love working. However, even though I plan to keep working I want a more traditional man. By this I don't mean a chauvinist, but a guy who is old fashioned about some things. My last ex believed women should work like men, but at the same time believed children should be brought up with married parents and would marry a girl he got pregnant. I think though men like him are a little harder to find but I am trying religious singles group. While they may be more old fashioned like that, they may also be more chauvinist. I may have to choose between a man who believes we both should work and may not marriage versus a guy who wants marriage but will expect his career to come first. Neither option works for me. I wish there were more men with a combo of both types of views.

Optimist
06-23-2011, 04:18 PM
Very good point. I didn't think of it that way. I absolutely am indebted to the women who paved the way for me to at least have a CHOICE in whether to marry, reproduce, or not. Life would be a lot harder if I was at the mercy of a man-child!

On the other hand, with the growing acceptance of women in the workplace and greater financial freedom came a rise in single parent households, mostly headed by women. So many men are still making babies, but they are no longer socially required to marry the mother, stick around and raise their family. That sucks for the single mother, the kid, and society.

That's why I think women have to be very careful to be honest with themselves about what they want and not settle or try to steer a guy into wanting that. It's a helluva gamble if he changes his mind.

BIGJosh
06-24-2011, 12:25 AM
I suspect there are a lot of people male and female who would not have had kids if they had the choice.


Umm, getting pregnant is a choice.....They had a choice, and chose to overlook whatever it was, and have kids. Probably a good idea for them to NOT have kids w/certain people? thats a better way to say it.

Optimist
06-24-2011, 02:59 AM
Umm, getting pregnant is a choice.....They had a choice, and chose to overlook whatever it was, and have kids. Probably a good idea for them to NOT have kids w/certain people? thats a better way to say it.

No, you didn't catch what I was saying. Back in the day you frankly had little choice (especially as a woman) but to get married. Of course once you are married it's inevitable that you'll have kids because birth control was illegal in some places so you couldn't buy it or it was really faulty. In the past there was too much social pressure on men and women, women simply were not hired past a certain age, could not hold property, and were forced into dependency.

So no, your guess at how I should say it was way off.

Kellydancer
06-24-2011, 10:23 AM
Umm, getting pregnant is a choice.....They had a choice, and chose to overlook whatever it was, and have kids. Probably a good idea for them to NOT have kids w/certain people? thats a better way to say it.

I'm seeing a disturbing trend and not sure if this is a problem with people my age but it is with much younger and it's the idea to have kids with anyone you date. I read many dating sites and the amount of posts I read where it mentions people having babies with different people upsets me. Then I read posts from these same people saying they used "birth control methods" like pulling out or nothing and all and just roll my eyes. These kids are the next generation and it scares me. I've read several articles where it states that in a few years it will be more common to find a 20 year old with kids outof wedlock then no kids at all. Why is this happening and why do people think it's great to just have kids with anyone? I was raised with the idea you only have kids with the person you marry. You don't just have kids with everyone you date.



No, you didn't catch what I was saying. Back in the day you frankly had little choice (especially as a woman) but to get married. Of course once you are married it's inevitable that you'll have kids because birth control was illegal in some places so you couldn't buy it or it was really faulty. In the past there was too much social pressure on men and women, women simply were not hired past a certain age, could not hold property, and were forced into dependency.

So no, your guess at how I should say it was way off.

The women back then either had a choice to be a spinster and dependent on people or a housewife and dependent. I wouldn't like either choice but spinsters were really stigmatized, which is sad. Unlike today's single women where many of the prettiest marry later, most spinsters back then weren't very pretty. Many women were afraid of being an old maid so they married any man, including men who were abusive or cheated with no chance of getting away. I'd hate these options.

ArmySGT.
06-24-2011, 04:41 PM
Confession time: Truthfully, Im one of those "scared shitless men" who are scared to death to get married to someone, in fear, if it doesnt work out, and she just wakes up one morning and says "I dont want to be with you anymore...I want a divorce", that she'll take me for all I have. .

YOU!

You get out of my head! Out! Out!

<----- Feels the same way.

vivianbear
06-25-2011, 01:32 PM
Confession time: Truthfully, Im one of those "scared shitless men" who are scared to death to get married to someone, in fear, if it doesnt work out, and she just wakes up one morning and says "I dont want to be with you anymore...I want a divorce", that she'll take me for all I have. I'm 41, and only 1 of my close friends is married.....the rest have my mindset. Sad to say, but thats true. The minute things dont work out between a /married couple, I'd say 95% of the time, it turns into" I wonder how much i can take him for"?

Then get a prenup! That's what they're there for! They aren't nearly as controversial as the may have been in the past and almost every financial adviser will suggest one. I have many friends who have married extremely successful men who have had no problems negotiating a prenup before the marriage. Those who act offended by it are reminded of how idiotic they sound, expecting the entirety of an estate they didn't earn, outside of an untimely death (oh yeah, get wills drafted, too). Its not a personal statement against your partner, its just a matter of protecting your investments and looking at marriage for what it is: a future financial arrangement and legal bond. Men who use this excuse are either naive to their own rights and entitlements or just copping out.