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dreamer1980
06-26-2011, 12:04 AM
Of course there are exceptions, but most likely a modern Western man would rather put off marriage for as long as he can. Since the Women's Liberation Movement and the rise of the manbaby (see Kevin Smith movies) marriage and other grown-up issues are the farthest thing from their minds, whether they have dated a woman for 1 year or 5. If we don't bring it up they will likely breathe a sigh of relief and continue to enjoy themselves at the expense of our reproductive years.

its because of the Women's Liberation Movement that the so called "manbaby" came about. men no longer needed to show women that they were responsible, hard working, intelligent, etc to sex them up. women starting banging whom ever them pleased, which is ok if thats what they want. but they cant be complaining that there are no "good guys" out there if men are "getting the milk for free" and not having to prove themselves worthy of it.

also, divorce laws are terribly in favor of the wife. most guys are realizing how screwed up this is and how many men they've seen get screwed over big time. its not worth it. hell, your wife can cheat on you, divorce your ass, take you for all she can and be living with another man. while you are ruined financially. with divorce rates being 50%, its not a risk men are readily wanting to take. prenups are still a touchy subject for the soon to be wife, most are offended when this is brought up. and even if she was ok with it you better have a damn good lawyer write it up for you or it will be worth shit in a divorce hearing. and a damn good lawyer will cost lots money, which the average soon to be husband probably doesnt have.

girlfromipanema
06-26-2011, 03:02 AM
its because of the Women's Liberation Movement that the so called "manbaby" came about. men no longer needed to show women that they were responsible, hard working, intelligent, etc to sex them up. women starting banging whom ever them pleased, which is ok if thats what they want. but they cant be complaining that there are no "good guys" out there if men are "getting the milk for free" and not having to prove themselves worthy of it.

also, divorce laws are terribly in favor of the wife. most guys are realizing how screwed up this is and how many men they've seen get screwed over big time. its not worth it. hell, your wife can cheat on you, divorce your ass, take you for all she can and be living with another man. while you are ruined financially. with divorce rates being 50%, its not a risk men are readily wanting to take. prenups are still a touchy subject for the soon to be wife, most are offended when this is brought up. and even if she was ok with it you better have a damn good lawyer write it up for you or it will be worth shit in a divorce hearing. and a damn good lawyer will cost lots money, which the average soon to be husband probably doesnt have.

That's a shame if a sex is the only motivation for a man to be responsible, hard working and intelligent.
Women have just as many fears as men, but that doesn't stop them from having babies with men when there is a 50/50 chance of them bailing without paying child support. Women are still marrying men when there is a 50% chance that they will be replaced with a newer model down the road. Life comes with all sorts of risks. There eventually comes a time in many relationships when the guy has to either shit or get off the pot.

Kellydancer
06-26-2011, 11:38 AM
Since most people do marry eventually, most men outgrow the fear. I think though that men who don't often tend to repeat the same mistakes. I've seen men keep dating the same kinds of women who screwed them over to begin with. I'm finding though that many men who were fearful started to want to settle down early-mid 40's which is good for me.

Kaiyla
06-26-2011, 12:43 PM
This thread is of extreme interest to me.

Quick threadjack: I'm almost 33, my boyfriend is almost 40, and we've been dating for over 6 years. For the last few years, I've wanted marriage. He's not ready because he wants to be more established job/money wise, and a piece of him might doubt our success as a married couple, which we are trying to work through in couples counseling. He is wonderful though. Ambitious, kind, funny, and very loving. I don't want to leave him just based on his aversion to marriage. What if I throw away a wonderful life partner?? I WISH I were like some of you ladies, and did not care for marriage. I now find myself envious of women whose guys DO propose. It's causing resentment, and now I have been on the fence for some time. 50% of me wants to stay, 50% of me thinks I should go.

I've lost a lot of confidence in myself, but feel too old to "start over" with dating/finding a life partner/future father of my children. My biological clock is ticking too, which just adds to the pressure. I wish I were younger and had more time. A piece of me feels that this guy doesn't fall into the statistics, and he just really needs all this time..and more.

Anyhow, I think this thread is interesting, and will be checking back in.

Kellydancer
06-26-2011, 01:08 PM
This thread is of extreme interest to me.

Quick threadjack: I'm almost 33, my boyfriend is almost 40, and we've been dating for over 6 years. For the last few years, I've wanted marriage. He's not ready because he wants to be more established job/money wise, and a piece of him might doubt our success as a married couple, which we are trying to work through in couples counseling. He is wonderful though. Ambitious, kind, funny, and very loving. I don't want to leave him just based on his aversion to marriage. What if I throw away a wonderful life partner?? I WISH I were like some of you ladies, and did not care for marriage. I now find myself envious of women whose guys DO propose. It's causing resentment, and now I have been on the fence for some time. 50% of me wants to stay, 50% of me thinks I should go.

I've lost a lot of confidence in myself, but feel too old to "start over" with dating/finding a life partner/future father of my children. My biological clock is ticking too, which just adds to the pressure. I wish I were younger and had more time. A piece of me feels that this guy doesn't fall into the statistics, and he just really needs all this time..and more.

Anyhow, I think this thread is interesting, and will be checking back in.

You may need to put a little bit of pressure on him. Friends of mine had been dating years and seem to be going nowhere. She ended up dumping him telling him she was ready for marriage (she was 36). A few months later he came around and they got married. I wouldn't date someone 6 years unless I was late 20's and younger.

Btw, 33 is not too young. I am 40 and finding men who want to marry. Sure, most won't be guys I want, but that is life. All I need is one guy who fits me. You still have likely 10 years or so to have kids, and contrary to what you may read online more and more women are having healthy babies naturally 40-44.

Kaiyla
06-26-2011, 01:18 PM
^Thanks for that, Kelly. I need some reassurance so bad right now. I don't really feel like anything is going to be okay right now, with either decision i make.

Sorry for the threadjack, guys. Maybe in some way I serve as proof to these statistics though?

If I could give advice though, so women don't end up in my position (this is truly heartbreaking to go through, trust me); never move in with a man without getting a commitment on marriage, even if it's way down the line-at least you know it's there.
Second, make sure your values align. Does he want kids? Does he want to marry? Find this out, it could save you years of pain, down the line.

I'm still hoping for the best. Hoping he'll come to realize I am "the one," and propose. The more time that passes though, the more therapy sessions that we rack up, I don't feel so strongly that it will happen, anymore. Because of this, I am in a very dark place right now.

Kellydancer
06-26-2011, 01:25 PM
^Thanks for that, Kelly. I need some reassurance so bad right now. I don't really feel like anything is going to be okay right now, with either decision i make.

Sorry for the threadjack, guys. Maybe in some way I serve as proof to these statistics though?

If I could give advice though, so women don't end up in my position (this is truly heartbreaking to go through, trust me); never move in with a man without getting a commitment on marriage, even if it's way down the line-at least you know it's there.
Second, make sure your values align. Does he want kids? Does he want to marry? Find this out, it could save you years of pain, down the line.

I'm still hoping for the best. Hoping he'll come to realize I am "the one," and propose. The more time that passes though, the more therapy sessions that we rack up, I don't feel so strongly that it will happen, anymore. Because of this, I am in a very dark place right now.


All of this is correct. One thing people always told me was never move in with a guy unless he proposes (and with a wedding date set). In the past I lived with men, but knew I didn't want to marry them. Now though I will not live with them until they propose.

Unfortunately what I've seen the longer one dates the less likely marriage will happen unless both people are young (say teens-early 20's). I have seen people date years, break up, then marry the next person 6 months after meeting.

I definitely agree with making sure values align, but I always tell people that a "never marrying" idea can change. Now I'm not saying stick around for a guy who says that, just that I've known many people who said they would never marry and they did.

Kaiyla
06-26-2011, 02:03 PM
I definitely agree with making sure values align, but I always tell people that a "never marrying" idea can change. Now I'm not saying stick around for a guy who says that, just that I've known many people who said they would never marry and they did.

^This is the only shred of hope I have left to hold on to, but I don't know how much longer I should (and can) hold on. The part about not moving in before a proposal is so smart, in my opinion.

Kellydancer
06-26-2011, 02:20 PM
^This is the only shred of hope I have left to hold on to, but I don't know how much longer I should (and can) hold on. The part about not moving in before a proposal is so smart, in my opinion.

What you need to do is what my one friend did: She asked for a proposal and he said "never" so she moved out. He pursued her once she moved out and she told him "I am ready to find a husband so if this isn't what you want, I will find someone else". He then proposed and she moved back in once they set a wedding date (6 months later). People might say this is taking a chance, which it is, but if he's not serious about marriage or losing you he likely will come back.

mediocrity
06-27-2011, 01:52 AM
I don't understand the compulsion towards marriage. I mean, if you're in a committed relationship, does having a piece of paper that says you're "married" somehow make the relationship different?

idk. It just seems like another social institution that's so deeply ingrained that people don't really question it. What makes being married better than being in a committed relationship sans marriage? I don't think it makes the relationship any more secure... if someone's going to cheat, they're going to cheat. In the end, it just means that there is more to lose and legal ramifications if things don't work out.

Now that I think about it, I should have gone to school to be a divorce attorney. Big business!

For us it is/was absolutely different, and marriage is not a "piece of paper". Having done the long term living together as well as having been married, I can say in my experience they were vastly different.

It isn't about cheating, or being more secure. It's just a certain je ne sais quoi, I guess. It's like... I look at my husband and he's not just my boyfriend or husband or whatever... he's my family. It's really hard to explain.

That being said, I am against people getting married just because they are obsessed with the idea of being married. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Camateur
06-27-2011, 11:27 AM
As far as I'm concerned within the bounds of a good, stable relationship a guy has a year to decide if I'm wife material. After a year I believe in limiting his access to me and starting to think about leaving the relationship.

Mr Hyde
06-27-2011, 01:04 PM
I don't understand the compulsion towards marriage. I mean, if you're in a committed relationship, does having a piece of paper that says you're "married" somehow make the relationship different?

idk. It just seems like another social institution that's so deeply ingrained that people don't really question it. What makes being married better than being in a committed relationship sans marriage? I don't think it makes the relationship any more secure... if someone's going to cheat, they're going to cheat. In the end, it just means that there is more to lose and legal ramifications if things don't work out.

Now that I think about it, I should have gone to school to be a divorce attorney. Big business!

I think there are huge differences TD.

First, there are the legal differences, ESPECIALLY when there are children involved.

Secondly, it's a major statement to each other and all the people that you know...there is a major difference between telling someone "we're married" and "we are in a relationship." You're getting up in front of the world and saying "we love each other, we're in this for the long haul, and we won't part until we die."

Now, in this day where half of marriages fail, I can see why you're cynical, but my take on that is...people need to take marriage much more seriously. It's not all cake and ice cream every day, you have to go in with the expectation that you REALLY ARE going to spend the rest of your life together, and unless the other person beats you or treats you like utter shit, then you work it out.

Thirdly, when you have kids, you really legitimize yourself to them by being in a marriage. A kid saying "my parents are married" vs "my parents live together" is big.

So as much as I respect your opinion on SW (and you're in the top 3-5 as far as my esteem here), I have to disagree with you here.

Optimist
06-27-2011, 07:27 PM
^^^Lemme just add that if you are building a business or other financial concerns during the marriage getting legalized through marriage helps protect both parties financial interests.

tempest666
06-28-2011, 06:12 PM
I'm still on the fence about marriage. I've been married (legally) once, with my other 2 unions being annulled. My only legal union was done when I was high as a kite on coke with an Elvis Impersonator as a witness. We divorced a few months later due to him being physically abusive and me finally quitting cocaine.

Nowadays we've both broached the subject of marriage but both of us are leery of it. I won't say never, but don't count on it anytime soon. ;)