View Full Version : What do Profs Make???
wcbumf
06-13-2011, 12:30 PM
The OP quotes statistics from the University of North Carolina and these figures are a bit deceiving. As a former trustee of several colleges I have had access to a good deal of compensation data for colleges and universities. In general, every state has a "major" university or two that pay much more than the remaining state schools, and small private colleges tend to pay even less. In much of the country a PHD assistant professor will earn much less than $100K and many non-tenured instructors struggle to survive economically.
The problem with professor pay vs. student tuition costs is that professors are incredibly unproductive. Last week an op ed appeared in the WSJ that observed that tuition could be reduced dramatically if only professors spent an extra 200 hours annually in the classroom teaching (that's 5 hours a week for 40 weeks!)
As far as the level of student loan debt is concerned, this is the student's responsibility. The current average debt for this year's grads ($23,500) is less than you will pay for your first car so this is hardly an overwhelming cost.
camille27
06-13-2011, 12:35 PM
1000? jesus christ.
yes!!! start an art thread! or plan a meetup. we can order pt141 from europe and let things evolve as they may.
see, even when i think of u of c, i think of darling martha nussbaum and her liberal ass. so...i mean, i guess if you're looking for it, you can find it. like attracts like. something like that.
yes! an art thread. so someone can understand the two hours i spent in the art store deciding on graphite pencils.
bucket
06-13-2011, 01:28 PM
Hmmm, maybe this is the quote of The Day. Wait, it's now tomorrow!
No, that's a stupid thing to say...
;D
I have 1,000 PM capacity. It's full. Again, not popularity--seven years of laziness in cleaning it out. I do it from time to time, but it is laborious and I give up soon every time.
Maybe we should start an Art thread? Maybe there is one already we can resurrect?
As far as conservative professors go, they do exist. I went to University of Chicago, well known for liberal, Ivory Tower academic types. But it was also from the U of C Law School that Reagan recruited most of his people. And I think Milton Friedman, the (in)famous conservative economist, was a faculty member at one point. The Business school was very tough, and very conservative.
We could definitely use a section dedicated to art and multi-media. At this point I know my strenghts and weaknesses as many do and I'm considering starting a small outfit of about 3-4 people. The education system doesn't allow us to network in this way.
I need 3 people. Someone who can create and maintain a website, someone with a strong background in various arts and a special effects artist.
I have a record label but I want to expand into visual arts including motion graphics.
Oops. Responded to the wrong post. I'll leave it anyway.
Kellydancer
06-13-2011, 01:40 PM
i dunno, i specifically member professors who rolled their eyes every time i religious student contributed some irrelevant religious comment to discussions.
never in my college career did i have a professor who believed in anything aside from their own ego, and i preferred it that way. that would've been terribly distracting otherwise, i think.
That was wrong but professors shouldn't do that. I had one teacher who was far left and if one believed in something more conservative she would call them judgemental but she was an exception. I did have one professor I reported but that was because he was calling American students stupid (he was Nigerian).
Even though I attended a art college I was a broadcasting major and many of my classmates were conservative and so were many teachers. These are actually often conservative fields, especially when it comes to certain radio areas like news and country radio.
camille27
06-13-2011, 01:54 PM
no shade, but american students are stupid compared to their nigerian peers. so i can totally understand that statement, though that seems like an inappropriate thing to say to the students regularly. education abroad is ridiculously superior to what's going on in us public schools.
jesus we're all kinds of off-topic, haha.
bucket, yeah, this is kind of the position i'm in. most people are so heavy into graphic design and computer art things (which is reasonable given where are society is headed) but i am all old-fashioned, and so i find mindself talking to myself about degas in the shower because no one else seems to give a shit about modernism anymore.
Kellydancer
06-13-2011, 02:21 PM
Degas was fantastic. I used to model for art classes and often artists would say I had the grace of a Degas model because of my ballet background.
Even if Nigeria was a better place (which it's not since they often hang people for no reason)if he likes it better he should go back there. Many of my classmates ofter wondered why they hired him since he was so hated. This was grad school which had higher standards.
camille27
06-13-2011, 03:44 PM
really? go back to africa? in 2011?
Degas was fantastic. I used to model for art classes and often artists would say I had the grace of a Degas model because of my ballet background.
Even if Nigeria was a better place (which it's not since they often hang people for no reason)if he likes it better he should go back there. Many of my classmates ofter wondered why they hired him since he was so hated. This was grad school which had higher standards.
Kellydancer
06-13-2011, 04:12 PM
He should because he was from Nigeria. He wasn't an American, he was on a visa.
bucket
06-13-2011, 04:18 PM
Is this issue of teacher salaries that important right now? We're talking about higher education. The colleges are like movie studios; if they want to pay one actor 10 mil and others far less for the same movie what can you do?
I understand this has to do with tax dollars but we can't do anything about it. It seems like these universities are the ones that are creating a two-class society as much as anything else. Cuts in higher education will not change their attitude.
Many people are going to college simply because there aren't any jobs, with or without a degree so they figure- might as well go into debt.
Brigham
06-14-2011, 07:10 PM
Is this issue of teacher salaries that important right now? We're talking about higher education. The colleges are like movie studios; if they want to pay one actor 10 mil and others far less for the same movie what can you do?
I understand this has to do with tax dollars but we can't do anything about it. It seems like these universities are the ones that are creating a two-class society as much as anything else. Cuts in higher education will not change their attitude.
Many people are going to college simply because there aren't any jobs, with or without a degree so they figure- might as well go into debt.
Good point. There was a time I seriously considered being a professor till I realized how little they made.
Kylea2
06-15-2011, 12:03 AM
I'm surprised Melonie hasn't beat me to the punch on this. Anyhow, we've both heavily expressed our opinions on college via SW. I've said before that regardless of money, many of the best in any industry won't be attracted to teach at formal colleges... too strict of guidelines, & too many politics to deal with. If the best aren't there, then why should most students be? The only ones really required to use this route for education are doctors & such. When people start realizing that most colleges are "for profit" with little return on investment (ROI), enrollment numbers will drop, & so will the salaries of most of the professors as well as administrators. In the mean time the colleges & government are doing a great job of convincing people that they need this "education"... & often debt, when the reality is much different.
threlayer
06-17-2011, 02:49 PM
Colleges/Universities exist to make money, to pay employees, and to educate. They are in business for a long time. Job market conditions change fast but they can't. What I'm concerned with is that the schools within those colleges/universities should inform their students of market conditions and they should limit enrollments to assure certain markets are no t overloaded with fresh graduates. Problem is there are so many Colleges/Universities, and they all contribute. So there should be cooperation in limiting enrollments, but Colleges/Universities are in competition and have existing staffs. So they do not help students much with "due diligence."
Mr Hyde
06-17-2011, 07:41 PM
Colleges/Universities exist to make money, to pay employees, and to educate. They are in business for a long time. Job market conditions change fast but they can't. What I'm concerned with is that the schools within those colleges/universities should inform their students of market conditions and they should limit enrollments to assure certain markets are no t overloaded with fresh graduates. Problem is there are so many Colleges/Universities, and they all contribute. So there should be cooperation in limiting enrollments, but Colleges/Universities are in competition and have existing staffs. So they do not help students much with "due diligence."
Actually, except the (suspect) for-profit schools, colleges/universities do NOT exist to make money and pay employees. They exist to educate people and produce research. They do not turn profits, and although they have to pay employees, that is not their main goal.
Most colleges and universities are publicly supported institutions that exist to provide higher education services and research to our country. Even the private schools, most of them are non-profits.
Their de facto mission is to help people in to careers, but that is not their primary mission. They have limited responsibility to tell people about job markets, etc....and besides, that stuff changes over time. They have a very limited role in telling people what to major in. Students have to bear responsibility for themselves in that regard.
Clement
06-18-2011, 03:59 AM
Alot of famous professors don't even show up half the time.
Nuclear Martini
06-18-2011, 10:24 AM
I don't like how professors are being attacked by OP. Most of them have PHDs and deserve to be making what they make.
If the student can't get hired after graduation, they should take a good hard look at themselves and figure out what they are lacking (hustle, drive, internships, etc.)
Nuclear Martini
06-18-2011, 10:30 AM
I suspect very few are actually reading my comments beyond the first sentence. I'm saying they are paid so well that they can't relate to their students and have little reason to act in the best interest. People think of higher ed as folks working at a non-profit organization who are only interested in the future of their students but the salaries they receive are quite good, so good that pure altruism is not why they are there. Same goes for administrators. The point of the thread is to say on average profs are making six figures or more. In most places in this country that's considered a good top 20% level salary. I'm not arguing whether they deserve it. I argue whether have an interest in educating their students in whether the tuition (much of it borrowed) is worth it given the down side of some fields: low salaries, shrinking number of jobs, etc. We should view the faculty in a realistic light. The profs at the school of Social Work at this school make $140,000 range and their students will average $18,000 and have to cover tuition that can be $20-40,000 a year. Can they relate to their students financial reality? If they care enough to warn them would it undermine their cushy 6 figures? Something to consider.
http://www.ihiresocialservices.com/t...na-salary.html
Seriously? What do you expect PHDs at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill to be making?? Thats one of the best schools in the country, and professors aren't there to "relate" to the students, they aren't social workers, bartenders, strippers, or psychologists.
lestat1
06-18-2011, 01:46 PM
I know some professors at very good schools who don't make nearly that much after decades of tenure. I doubt that's an accurate reflection of professor's salaries in this country. Also, the hours worked are hardly 40 hours/week for 9 months. Try 80 hours/week all year long. Summers are for working on publishing (so you can keep your job), course plans, and enough bureaucracy to make the government do a double-take.
firemaiden04
06-19-2011, 02:46 PM
Yeah, by all means, tell me where these teachers are making that kind of cash. I'm in school to teach history, and I would fucking LOVE to be raking in the dough doing it.
I am a professor at a private research oriented university. Compared to the average worker, most professors are paid above average. If you take into account their education levels, however, professors are probably paid somewhat below average. Most professors have one or two advanced degrees and one terminal degree (e.g. Ph.D.). Other workers with that much education (e.g. doctors, lawyers, MBAs) probably earn more on average. One thing to keep in mind is that the earnings of a professor are highly dependent on the file they are in. Someone in a lucrative field like a professor quantitative finance or petroleum engineering will earn a lot more than a English or History professor.
I don't think the pay of professors is so high that they cannot relate to their students. It's not like most professors are earning 7 or 8 figure salaries. I know I caution students who wish to come to our school if they are not offered financial aid. If they are of limited means and for some reason are not offered any financial aid I would not hesitate to suggest they consider a more affordable public university. I think most of my colleagues would do the same.
As far as the OP original point about advising students on the job market, I don't think most professors will lie. That said, professors might not necessarily have the best feel for what the job market is like since they are not career placement counselors.
If anyone is interested in what professors make here is an excellent resource:
http://chronicle.com/article/Interactive-Database-2011/126972/
threlayer
06-23-2011, 11:18 AM
Actually, except the (suspect) for-profit schools, colleges/universities do NOT exist to make money and pay employees. They exist to educate people and produce research. They do not turn profits, and although they have to pay employees, that is not their main goal.
Most colleges and universities are publicly supported institutions that exist to provide higher education services and research to our country. Even the private schools, most of them are non-profits.
Their de facto mission is to help people in to careers, but that is not their primary mission. They have limited responsibility to tell people about job markets, etc....and besides, that stuff changes over time. They have a very limited role in telling people what to major in. Students have to bear responsibility for themselves in that regard.
Their charters say that, but the background is that they are employers and if they can't meet their financial goals they eventually will cease to exist. so that is their operating 'charter.' when Univ presidents / staffs meet in seminars, you can bet that most of the interesting talk is about balancing expenses and fees and research grants, not quality of professors hired, or curricula.