View Full Version : The AdultWork Thread
MessyChick
09-30-2015, 03:03 PM
this link covers the digital VAT law https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers/vat-businesses-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers
belleoftheball2
09-30-2015, 03:06 PM
So since I'm neither a UK/EU business/resident can I get all my VAT collected from my earnings refunded? Sure, let the UK custies pay.
Miss-Trust
09-30-2015, 03:53 PM
As far as I can tell from the vague information that Adultwork has given us all, Only EU resident have to pay the VAT on content. If you are outside the EU then customers will not have to pay any VAT.
The problem for anyone outside of the EU, is that all EU residents will have to pay VAT. So VAT will be added to your fee's for movie clips, webcam etc for any customers that are resident within the EU. On adultwork most of the customers are from the UK, so you will find that your fee's will go up by 20%.
The customers are also paying VAT to buy the credits in the beginning. This means that customers inside and outside of the EU are now expected to pay an extra 40% for your services. I very much doubt they will stick around long and end up going else where.
Unless of course you take the 20% VAT hit and lower your fee's. Also, all performers (regardless of where you are) will have to pay VAT when you withdraw your credits no matter where you are just as I have to pay tax on anything I have bought that is in the US.
I don't know how things are in the UK.Hell,I don't even know how they are in my country.Regarding VAT ,I mean.But why do you care if the customer is paying VAT?Let the fuckers pay,they got used too much with 0.6/min pussy,I'm glad they'll pay more now.SM customers pay VAT.It was about the time the cheapos on AW to pay as well.
I think you will find that most of us that cam on adultwork charge decent prices for our shows. I charge 1.65 credits for group and 2.10 credits for private which translates to £1.65 ($2.42) and £2.10 ($3.18) at an approximate 65% payout on cam and 70% payout for Private gallery, movie clips etc at the moment. (before all of this crappy VAT stuff)
Your thinking about the romanians and bulgarians and so forth that charge rediculously low prices and, believe me, it pisses us off too that we are being undercut so much.
I'v been on Adultwork for quite some years now and now it's looking like an end to an era for me. The site will go down the pan.
xxx
CrazyK
09-30-2015, 04:45 PM
Starting to think along the same lines... All we need now is AW to announce that all directcam will be free just like on sm
nadia29
09-30-2015, 04:47 PM
So, the site has changed, anyone notice a difference? I'm not in the EU and it says I'm vat exempt and I went to my credit transfer page and the fee is still 30%
CrazyK
09-30-2015, 04:50 PM
My prices have now changed...rip AW :P
MessyChick
09-30-2015, 04:51 PM
My rates have risen as expected
Miss-Trust
09-30-2015, 05:02 PM
So, the site has changed, anyone notice a difference? I'm not in the EU and it says I'm vat exempt and I went to my credit transfer page and the fee is still 30%
Ok that has confused me. Were your direct chat rates 1.19c per min before the change?
Just trying to work out if people outside the EU are having VAT added to their cam, phone chat, movie clip fee's or not.
MessyChick
09-30-2015, 05:04 PM
If your customer is EU they will pay bat regardless of where you are
nadia29
09-30-2015, 05:05 PM
Ok that has confused me. Were your direct chat rates 1.19c per min before the change?
Just trying to work out if people outside the EU are having VAT added to their cam, phone chat, movie clip fee's or not.
No, it was .99, but since you are the EU you can see the price increase but as I am not my price and everyone else is the same as before for me.
CrazyK
09-30-2015, 05:13 PM
For DirectIM, Mine were, 75p group and 95p pvt. They are now 90p group and 1.19 pvt.
Miss-Trust
09-30-2015, 05:17 PM
Thanks for that nadia. I just wanted to see how AW VAT charges were being applied.
So for Non-EU members, they have to worry about their EU customers paying the extra 40% overall (Paying VAT on buying credits, and services aswell) and EU members have to worry about the customers extra expense plus the VAT on adultworks fee.
I now wish that Adultworks customer base wasn't made up mainly of uk customers. Eeerg.
x
nadia29
09-30-2015, 05:28 PM
Thanks for that nadia. I just wanted to see how AW VAT charges were being applied.
So for Non-EU members, they have to worry about their EU customers paying the extra 40% overall (Paying VAT on buying credits, and services aswell) and EU members have to worry about the customers extra expense plus the VAT on adultworks fee.
I now wish that Adultworks customer base wasn't made up mainly of uk customers. Eeerg.
x
I think the guys only get charged the 20% once, but still 20% is a lot and all the EU girls will be out 6% over all, so prices will go up. It's sad all around really.
Miss-Trust
09-30-2015, 05:42 PM
I think the guys only get charged the 20% once, but still 20% is a lot and all the EU girls will be out 6% over all, so prices will go up. It's sad all around really.
Thats a relief. So we only need to worry about the price hike by 20% for the customers. I think I may be able to work with that.
I really wish that adultwork were a bit more clear about what was actually happenning.
x
sexysusie
09-30-2015, 07:25 PM
i was already charging high at 2.99/3.49. After the VAT has been implemented my rates are showing as 3.59/4.19. I will now pay an extra 6% on my income, and am i right in thinking the CUSTOMER will already have paid 20% extra when buying his credits. I CANNOT for the life of me work all this out! I have a high % in paid chat per hour i am online and nearly all of that is private, i can't stand group and I'm terrible at it! I really can't work out if I need to lower, or raise my rates in order to keep my privates majority while not losing out more than 20p off my take home per minute rate. Ugh, my head hurts.
Miss-Trust
09-30-2015, 07:46 PM
As far as I can tell, since the change has happenned a few hours ago, the customers are not being charges VAT when they purchase credits. I have gone through the process of buying credits up until the point where you have to put your credit card details in and no VAT showed then. The only way for my to confirm this is to ask one of my regulars to go through the process and tell me if they are charged VAT though.
I know it is looking bad at them moment but give it a few days with your pricing as it is now and see if you still make the same amount. If you don't then you will have to look at other options.
You could absorbe all or some of the VAT charges from the customers or you could look at split camming. Personally I'm looking into split camming with indie, but I'v only been looking at this since this afternoon so nothing decided.
If your in the EU then you will also have to pay VAT on adultworks withdrawl fee which works out at £6 per £100 earnt.
Do you do vanilla camming or fetish/domme?
If you do vanilla camming then group is the way to go on adultwork. I used to do vanilla and group was my real earner. I'd only do a standered show with no requests (unless it was a regular or a big spender asking for smaller requests)
All in all, at the moment, adultwork is a waiting game to see how things turn out. You may need to lower your pricing and you may not. See how you do and then you will see if you need to change pricing, add more eggs or/and split cam.
I still don't know how adultwork is working all this out and make sure that you check your earnings. There is a lady on another forum whos earnings for her shows are not working out on the new rate shown with VAT nor her old rate that didn't include VAT. So keep an eye on it all.
xxx
Classy_Katy
09-30-2015, 11:42 PM
THIS WAS FROM MY ACCOUNTANT-
Right so rather than you have to ask and identify each person who sees you and charge vat it will be done for you.. The consumer pays vat.. And you will pay vat as part of your monthly aw admin fee... Those earning at the threshold for vat will be able to obtain a statement identifying vat paid and will be able to claim it on their vat returns
What you may find is that be is vat is added to the charge for credits.. Less people can afford to stay as long
Thanks for getting this info...it still leaves the question about whether AW should be adding VAT to the services we provide where we earn less than the VAT threshold. Would it be possible for you to clear that up with him/her please? Thanks.
Classy_Katy
10-01-2015, 12:03 AM
They seem to have answered above here:
Why is it up to the AdultWork.com Platform to apply the correct VAT rates and collect the VAT on behalf of its members?
Under current legislation the AdultWork.com Platform is deemed to be a Portal through which third parties sell their digital products and e-services to end consumers. As much as it might seem desirable to avoid the responsibility, the Platform does not meet the mitigating criteria that would exempt it. If the Platform did meet the mitigating criteria, the burden of responsibility would actually be incumbent on each individual member. We feel this is unrealistic for each AdultWork.com member and as has always been the objective of AdultWork.com, the Platform should provide the tools to allow individuals and businesses to conduct their online businesses with ease and simplified administration - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Another question...are they going to be the ones to collect the VAT from our earnings or is it all going to be our income and it is up to us to deal with if we have reached the VAT threshold? Will have to see how it looks on the next transfer.
Kinkybitch
10-01-2015, 12:28 AM
I've actually had to lower my prices :( I was at 2.5 for grp and 4 for pvt so I can't see many of my regs paying near on 5 credits. I can't see this being a good thing for AW.
theharlot
10-01-2015, 12:57 AM
At those prices, only guys with money were coming to you anyway.
I've actually had to lower my prices :( I was at 2.5 for grp and 4 for pvt so I can't see many of my regs paying near on 5 credits. I can't see this being a good thing for AW.
Classy_Katy
10-01-2015, 01:07 AM
If none of us lower our prices, they will simply have to adjust to paying the VAT. Lowering our prices by 20%, plus paying 20% on the admin fee as well is a huge hit to our earnings. I wonder if Daily Pay have to charge VAT on their services now too...
seicento
10-01-2015, 01:43 AM
As far as I can tell from the vague information that Adultwork has given us all, Only EU resident have to pay the VAT on content. If you are outside the EU then customers will not have to pay any VAT.
The problem for anyone outside of the EU, is that all EU residents will have to pay VAT. So VAT will be added to your fee's for movie clips, webcam etc for any customers that are resident within the EU. On adultwork most of the customers are from the UK, so you will find that your fee's will go up by 20%.
The customers are also paying VAT to buy the credits in the beginning. This means that customers inside and outside of the EU are now expected to pay an extra 40% for your services. I very much doubt they will stick around long and end up going else where.
Unless of course you take the 20% VAT hit and lower your fee's. Also, all performers (regardless of where you are) will have to pay VAT when you withdraw your credits no matter where you are just as I have to pay tax on anything I have bought that is in the US.
I think you will find that most of us that cam on adultwork charge decent prices for our shows. I charge 1.65 credits for group and 2.10 credits for private which translates to £1.65 ($2.42) and £2.10 ($3.18) at an approximate 65% payout on cam and 70% payout for Private gallery, movie clips etc at the moment. (before all of this crappy VAT stuff)
Your thinking about the romanians and bulgarians and so forth that charge rediculously low prices and, believe me, it pisses us off too that we are being undercut so much.
I'v been on Adultwork for quite some years now and now it's looking like an end to an era for me. The site will go down the pan.
xxx
The site was going down before this.I think we all had a significant drop in earnings over the last years.I charge 2 a min and I'm not bothered for the extra 20% they wil add to my rates.I don't think the good customers will be either but the cheap ones will be,obviously.I've been on aw for 8 years and I've seen it going down.They say the ownership changed,well maybe they will bring some traffic in,maybe there will be good changes as well.The traffic quality is what is affecting us and not a 20% VAT ,look at SM where customers pay VAT, models are charging high rates and still, they pay.And we worry for an extra 20% they will have to pay now?If they don't like it there is free porn all over the net,cam interraction shouldn't be an experiece they can get for cheap.
And yes, I was reffering to EE studios,none of these girls we see charging under 1 a min is an independent,they all studios and owners decide their rates. As an eastern myself I found that affecting me big time because customers are the way we educate them.If I had one dollar in my account for how many times I've been told I charge too much for an eastern I'd be rich.So I have a personal reason to say "let them pay".
DancesWithSloths
10-01-2015, 02:54 AM
What are the chances of legislation bodies reversing this draconian mess? Once they see what a thorough disaster it is :)
Pretty high, actually - but not soon. This has been going on since the start of 2015; when it came in, there was an uproar from micro-businesses all over the country. The main resistance has been coming from indy writers, people who sell knitting patterns etc. The legislators had *no idea* how many micro-businesses would be hit. (I knew all of this from my indy writing woes, but assumed live shows didn't fall under the VATMOSS umbrella.)
Here's a blog by the fantasy writer Juliet McKenna who's been fighting the good fight.
http://www.julietemckenna.com/?cat=48
Latest, from yesterday:
"The Telegraph (and other papers) have been triumphantly proclaiming victory in the VATMOSS fight. The EU has conceded that the legislation needs revising to include a threshold. Hurrah! ... up to a point ...
But we still won’t see any long-term relief for the thousands upon thousands of businesses hit by this for another two years – maybe eighteen months at very, very best. Which means we still need vital interim suspension or some other easement to stop the ongoing damage being done to the grassroots digital economy."
MessyChick
10-01-2015, 03:17 AM
im sure theres been an influx of cheapos today. Most in school uniform and one boasting to be pregnant and doing smoking shows. Feeling a bit depressed this morning
CamgirlScotland
10-01-2015, 03:30 AM
I've switched to Streamate for a bit. Seem to be doing a bit better on there this morning. The news about the VAT has so many people feeling deflated...
Classy_Katy
10-01-2015, 03:34 AM
Looking at the cam and IM pages, it seems girls are sticking with the higher prices and not dropping...fingers crossed it stays that way.
seicento
10-01-2015, 03:53 AM
Question: Did anyone pay for their positioning today and if so ,were u charged +20%?
Kinkybitch
10-01-2015, 03:54 AM
Yes there's a charge for positioning as well
seicento
10-01-2015, 03:58 AM
42754
Thank you Kinky,I asked because I am charged 24% ,VAT in my country is 24% so I take it they charge us the VAT of the country we live in.
Blonde-Ambition
10-01-2015, 04:18 AM
No probs katy, I am going into see my accountant tomorrow (Friday) to find out EXACTLY what will happen! meeting is at 11am uk time, as soon as I know, will post here!
xx
MessyChick
10-01-2015, 04:19 AM
whoever is purchasing the service pays their country rate
Im in the UK i will pay 20%
This means that customers from different places will be paying different rates for your shows, but you will still receive the same amount.
Incase anyone wants to know, VAT rates are...
Belgium BE 21
Bulgaria BG - 20 -
Czech Republic CZ - 21 -
Denmark DK - - 25 -
Germany DE - 19 -
Estonia EE - 20 -
Greece EL - 23 -
Spain ES 21 -
France FR 20 -
Croatia HR - 25 -
Ireland IE 23
Italy IT 22 -
Cyprus CY - 19 -
Latvia LV - 21 -
Lithuania LT - 21 -
Luxembourg LU 17
Hungary HU - 27 -
Malta MT - 18 -
Netherlands NL - 21 -
Austria AT - 20
Poland PL - 23 -
Portugal PT - 23
Romania RO - 24 -
Slovenia SI - 22 -
Slovakia SK - 20 -
Finland FI - 24 -
Sweden SE - 25 -
United Kingdom UK - 20
seicento
10-01-2015, 04:24 AM
whoever is purchasing the service pays their country rate
Im in the UK i will pay 20%
This means that customers from different places will be paying different rates for your shows, but you will still receive the same amount.
I got it,I thought it was a 20% for everyone on aw ,guess I was too busy doing the math yesterday to understand properly LOL.Have to do the math again now.
Raised my price yesterday,just logged in and had a new reg taking me pvt ,no comments on higher rates and he tipped too so all good so far.
DancesWithSloths
10-01-2015, 04:27 AM
I've switched to Streamate for a bit. Seem to be doing a bit better on there this morning. The news about the VAT has so many people feeling deflated...
Yep, ditto. Haven't been on there in weeks, but back I go.
CamgirlScotland
10-01-2015, 04:56 AM
im sure theres been an influx of cheapos today. Most in school uniform and one boasting to be pregnant and doing smoking shows. Feeling a bit depressed this morning
Some women on there are still charging 70p for group. It hardy seems worth it now?
seicento
10-01-2015, 05:01 AM
Some women on there are still charging 70p for group. It hardy seems worth it now?
They`re studios...they didn`t change anything and probably won`t.
CamgirlScotland
10-01-2015, 05:15 AM
Ahh yes, of course!
CatBBW
10-01-2015, 05:44 AM
I've just thought of something...if you keep your prices the same and customers now pay that plus the added 20%....and then whenever you withdraw your creds and they take an extra 20% on the admin fee....surely that means you're earning exactly the same net as you would have before the VAT was added, it's just you're the middleman for AW collecting the VAT?
Classy_Katy
10-01-2015, 05:51 AM
If we leave our prices as AW just raised them, we will be earning what we used to because at some point they will take the VAT element from it. We will be out of pocket though because of the VAT that is being added to the admin fee and other charges like positioning.
CatBBW
10-01-2015, 05:55 AM
If we leave our prices as AW just raised them, we will be earning what we used to because at some point they will take the VAT element from it. We will be out of pocket though because of the VAT that is being added to the admin fee and other charges like positioning.
Ahhh...I think it just clicked...WE don't receive the price the customers see/pay, we receive what we charge. Yes, I get it now, sadly.
curious91
10-01-2015, 06:15 AM
I wonder if the VAT is added on streamate and imlive too?
Kinkybitch
10-01-2015, 06:36 AM
So basically from 100 credits you will make £59?
sexysusie
10-01-2015, 07:07 AM
SM charge customers VAT but not girls as they are service providers who use their platform, not 'customers'. Unfortunately AW is treating both us AND the guys as 'customers'. i am not sure of the accuracy of this but i believe we may be able to claim back the VAT we're paying to AW on our admin fee and for placement etc, as expenses when self assessment comes around.
sexysusie
10-01-2015, 07:09 AM
by the way, anyone on daily pay will now pay 5% instead of 6% as they have reduced their fee to help us cope a bit.
justme23
10-01-2015, 07:27 AM
Yesterday night when I had to pay the webcam feat at 12 AM Uk time, instead of paying 3.00gbp which I was normally paying, now I had to pay 3.84. There is an increase too.
Regard the prices, today after talking with many friends of mine which they are on adultwork too, and they're independent as me, i have decided to create 2 special offers for those who do not want to take the VAT, under their responsibility , which usually normally have to be, because on daily lifetime all of us are paying VAT when we want a product, service or whatever... so I have created a DUTY FREE special offer, I made some math with the VAT which is on my country so i made free VAT which is 20% on UK plus another 4% because,that's what it is on my country (a total of 24%), so I made a special offer of 24%OFF for those who likes coupons or extra pie., and I will know for sure that they will stay at least minimum 10 minutes, and I get something sure on my hands and I don't have to be cheap for all the customers and to attract all the retards, I do not want to take the customers of those who charge for a biscuit show, they can keep those retards for them, lol... so I don't see a reason why I should to take the VAT under my wing and to consider that the percentage of the site lowered more than actually happened already because of the admin fee, so the cocks have to pay properly for our services from now on!
What happened me now, is so fucking weird, i got a SMS booking where it says that I got a webcam booking for 30 minutes at 60 credits total, which is still lower, because with the VAT increase, my rates are totally different and not 2.00 per minute for a skype webcam booking(in the past was 1.99), and when I looked on the webcam booking information I saw 50 credits, so there are even lower 1.66 credits per minute, wtf is going on?
EDITED: They charge us 20% too and the customers too??? or the guys make some math too and they get the VAT off of us too? hahaha, i am so fucking paranoid and so confused... I believe that aw now is a big pain in the as for the customers and for us too ... RIP ADULTWORK, really... is the begin of end!
CamgirlScotland
10-01-2015, 07:30 AM
Yeah that same thing happened to me. 10 mins usually costs the customer15 credits. But for a 10 minute booking on Skype I was only given 12. It looks like they're taking VAT from the rates we charge, but haven't increased the rate the customer pays to account for the VAT. Even though the price is increased on the profile. Really annoyed about this
Classy_Katy
10-01-2015, 07:45 AM
The skype issue needs to be pointed out to them...we should be paid the amount that we set. Unless they think that skype is a service they provide to us! The booking system is a service but there hasn't been a charge for that before.
I take it we're getting paid the right amount on directcam...
CamgirlScotland
10-01-2015, 07:50 AM
As far as I can tell it's the correct amount on DirectCam. Going to email them about it, unless someone else already has.
CamgirlScotland
10-01-2015, 07:56 AM
Also, any further info on being able to claim the VAT that we pay to Adultwork during self assessment? Will have to look into that!
Maybe that is wishful thinking..
justme23
10-01-2015, 07:59 AM
If I come now to the UK and due to the new rules on AW I am paying VAT as self-employed, I can ask for residency? I will be like any other British citizen with rights and responsibilities a day, right?
Classy_Katy
10-01-2015, 08:00 AM
The VAT on the admin charge is deducted at transfer along with the admin charge so it's all part of our expenses as it was before.