View Full Version : How many Spenders/Tippers? How many Camgirls?
boobygirl
06-30-2011, 05:24 AM
Well, last week I made an obscene amount of money from men who've told me repeatedly that they find me compelling precisely because I keep it private. So, I don't consider it a sentiment - I consider it a very clear reality that's reconfirmed each time I get a check.
What you're describing is one type of member, the guy who gets all he needs out of a few free porn clips. Camming offers interaction. You can treat camming like it's porn, or you can treat it like an interactive experience. Girls who give public shows treat it like porn with the added edge of being live, and benefit from it financially, but they're not catering to the men who don't want that, who are tired of that, or need some semblance of human interaction to get off.
So they can bang themselves all day long. It's fine. It works for them.
I don't know how long you have been camming so i don't know whether you have any point of comparison but when i first started camming it was back to back privates - you couldn't fail to make money. Fast foward five years and i decide to start camming again - much harder now, fewer privates, fewer spenders, more freeloaders.
Now what happened in those fives years? MFC happened. Coincidence?
You may not think it hurts you because the guys in your room are there because they want someone who doesn't show it all for free but if noone was showing it for free you'd still have those guys in your room plus all the other guys who are currently just surfing until they find the free shit.
Bambalina
06-30-2011, 09:44 AM
Also ladies, don't get me wrong, I'm no prude here. I think SHOWS are fine in an environment based on tipping. I mean to thrive there you have to do some kind of SHOWS.
But the rules on MFC, I think, are GREAT! I'd be totally happy with those RULES on the Collective site. But we would rigorously ENFORCE them. Because it isn't about stopping SHOWS. Or curtailing creativity.
The problem is that MFC has CLEARLY set out rules, and IGNORES them and allows women to do things that will mess with the supply and demand, and also things that are patently adult in a site with no disclaimer and no stops for minors, and since you're an independent contractor, YOU get busted. Those are both terrible consequences for this industry.
I strongly believe that everything from MissEgos NEVER naked, even in private, to a full strip tease or a boob flash in public are a camgirl's "style". Even if YOU don't like that style, who are you to judge? And to make the case that Nudity shouldn;t be allowed in free chat because YOU don't do it, doesn't fly, because then MissEgo should be able to make the case that none of you should get nude at ALL because she doesn't. So I don;t have a problem with personal style.
What I have a problem with is that EVERY camgirl knows the line pretty much between a titillating show that gets guys interested and makes them spend more and brings the horniness level up by several notches (and yes, some guys, who are easy will crack one out over these shows, but GENERALLY 75%+ of men won't get off from a boobie flash or a pole dance) and gets the tips flowing...But the minute you do close-up vagina and insertion and fuck machines and sucking off a dildo and masturbation to orgasm, and full on girl girl shows and all that in Public chat, you are doing shows designed for private, for getting guys off, for men to Masturbate to...you are doing those shows in public...and THAT allows for hundreds of guys to get off to that show and NOT tip to get it. It is giving away the ultimate prize, and it is a bad idea in my opinion.
So my line is not about nudity, it is not a moral line, it is not a line to protect the girls who don't get naked naked at all in free chat either, even though some of you will not like that. It is a line designed primarily to stop the customer from getting for free, what they are supposed to be paying for.
PERIOD.
B
Bambalina
08-07-2011, 02:25 AM
I think the finite nature of the Customer is never clearer than on MFC, watching a girl do a full insertion show after a shower show, and there are 700-2500 guys in the room depending on her popularity, and literally sometimes 3 guys support the whole thing.
Terrible situation.
B
SupaByoch
08-07-2011, 03:15 AM
Pareto Principle applies in every business including this one.
20% of us will make 80% of the money.
80% of us will make 20% of the money.
On the flipside:
20% of the customers will spend 80% of the money.
80% of the customers will spend 20% of the money.
haha
IMO a large portion of that 80% (of cam models) are those who think it's easy to just plug in and go, have no idea the work and commitment required to make real money at this, don't have the time/patience/work ethic to actually learn enough and do the work to make the real money, etc.
This business has become just like stripping did over the last decade: oversaturated, girls offering way too much for too little $$, overspoiled customers expecting way too much for the $$, pimp-ish site owners who don't give a shit if the models make money as long as THEY make money and who treat their only assets like total crap.
Except it happened with this business WAY faster than with stripping. At internet speed. LOL
But, since we are online this vastly increases our market and our potential earnings, and it is my opinion that there are far more potential spenders online than we would EVER see in all the strip clubs in the world combined. So there is still more POTENTIAL for us to make money if we dedicate ourselves to the business.
Just like with stripping, you can't just show up and expect money to fall in your lap. You have to learn the game and put in the time/effort to make it work for you.
It is also my opinion that online it's easier for the guys to ignore those who aren't doing a good job. There is so much more selection they can be more choosy. This means those who half-ass it are far less competition for those of us who do put in the effort (unlike in strip clubs where any lazy skank can park on a dude's lap and ruin him for the rest of the girls even if he isn't spending on her).
So while I do agree the market is totally oversupplied, I don't think it is nearly as detrimental to us as a whole as it is in RL adult business.
SupaByoch
08-07-2011, 03:29 AM
MFC is just like a dirty strip club gone haywire, where tons of girls end up giving away far too much for far too little$. Sure they make money, but they are cheapening the service to the point that almost no one is willing to pay for what they're SUPPOSED to be paying for, and the place is full of cheap fucks who will never spend much if any, and the girls just keep doing more and more and more and more for less and less and less and less.
At some point something has to give and I think this is why we're seeing more girls doing well there who DON'T give it all away for free. It becomes refreshing for alot of the guys to see someone who is NOT trying to "whore it up" for peanuts. They are the types of guys who used to frequent strip clubs and spend a lot of money, but who faded out when the strip clubs got dirty. Unfortunately they are in the minority.
The majority are just bottom-feeders who will sit and watch all the action for free. Literally hundreds of people watching all that porn for FREE while only a handful at best actually pay for it. IMO the MFC business model caters to the bottom of the barrel and cheapens the service in a severe way. Sure MFC makes a lot of money, and some of the girls make good money, but look how much harder the girls have to work to make the money there now vs a year ago. I wonder where it will be in another year?
I am all for a camsite enforcing the rules so only those who have paid for the service get to enjoy it. It's one thing to do a little tease for tips (stage), but you don't give away the VIP action to the whole damn club just because a couple guys tipped well. This is why you see so many guys sitting around waiting for OTHERS to tip, even TELLING others to tip but not tipping themselves. Sheesh!
Bambalina
08-07-2011, 04:58 AM
MFC is just like a dirty strip club gone haywire, where tons of girls end up giving away far too much for far too little$. Sure they make money, but they are cheapening the service to the point that almost no one is willing to pay for what they're SUPPOSED to be paying for, and the place is full of cheap fucks who will never spend much if any, and the girls just keep doing more and more and more and more for less and less and less and less.
At some point something has to give and I think this is why we're seeing more girls doing well there who DON'T give it all away for free. It becomes refreshing for alot of the guys to see someone who is NOT trying to "whore it up" for peanuts. They are the types of guys who used to frequent strip clubs and spend a lot of money, but who faded out when the strip clubs got dirty. Unfortunately they are in the minority.
The majority are just bottom-feeders who will sit and watch all the action for free. Literally hundreds of people watching all that porn for FREE while only a handful at best actually pay for it. IMO the MFC business model caters to the bottom of the barrel and cheapens the service in a severe way. Sure MFC makes a lot of money, and some of the girls make good money, but look how much harder the girls have to work to make the money there now vs a year ago. I wonder where it will be in another year?
I am all for a camsite enforcing the rules so only those who have paid for the service get to enjoy it. It's one thing to do a little tease for tips (stage), but you don't give away the VIP action to the whole damn club just because a couple guys tipped well. This is why you see so many guys sitting around waiting for OTHERS to tip, even TELLING others to tip but not tipping themselves. Sheesh!
So, I seriously respect your brain.
How do we as people who make money from MFC or stand to make money if it is seriously improved by following it's own rules...How do we get a message across to get those rules followed?
As you might know I am on this in a serious way, and have been quite seriously mis-understood as trying to ruin MFC, when all I want is ideas for getting a company to listen, and change policy.
Any ideas?
B
Bambalina
08-07-2011, 05:07 AM
Pareto Principle applies in every business including this one.
20% of us will make 80% of the money.
80% of us will make 20% of the money.
On the flipside:
20% of the customers will spend 80% of the money.
80% of the customers will spend 20% of the money.
haha
I disagree, but maybe not how you might think. Because I think the explosion of cam-models is larger than most want to admit, and I think the 80-20 thing is not BIG enough...I think it is more like 90-10 or even 95-5, and the free show, break the rules model of MFC is sliding it closer and closer to 99-1.
I also think that, especially with MFC on the playing field as they are (SM has COMPLETELY altered their older stricter model and scrapped it) it affects everything and soon it will be 99% of the customers spend 1% of the money. In MANY places on MFC it is already beyond that...I have seen shows with 1280 guys in the room and 6 were tipping, and only 3 of those were tipping big...6 out of 1280 is under .5% meaning 99.6% tipped ZERO.
Pretty sad numbers.
{A bunch of good stuff I agree with, removed}
So while I do agree the market is totally oversupplied, I don't think it is nearly as detrimental to us as a whole as it is in RL adult business.
True, however, as I posted in another thread, we need to work on ways to bring in new customers at a higher rate. Either from places on the internet where they are more unaware of camming, or from OUTSIDE the internet.
But it might behoove us to have a better place to bring them than MFC or SM.
B
SupaByoch
08-07-2011, 05:07 AM
Ehh, I think the energy is better spent on something more productive than trying to talk to a pimp who has made it abundantly clear he doesn't care.
I personally just work my own angle and don't put up with any crap from customers. I am basically indy and put in a lot of effort to manage my business. I turn guys away EVERY SINGLE DAY who try to get me to do something beyond my limits. I obviously cater to a limited market but I've figured out what works for me and run with it.
I have other irons in the fire these days as well, and just don't have the time to think about any camsite's problems. IMO the camsites who continue to cater to the bottom of the barrel will run themselves out of business sooner or later, or be forced to change. I see more and more ladies who are serious in this business moving away from shitty sites like that. I see room for new sites that are run better because plenty of models want to be treated better and so do customers!
Bambalina
08-07-2011, 05:13 AM
Ehh, I think the energy is better spent on something more productive than trying to talk to a pimp who has made it abundantly clear he doesn't care.
I actually agree...but I'm weird, and I admit that...I know getting Leo to pay attention is a longshot, and he probably doesn't even read those addresses in person, but I take the shot, and I hope a few of you are entertained by what I write, or that these messages being on Google will cause others to read em and say "Hmmmm".
I have been really successful with a ton of promotions that are seriously off the wall as far as others see them, but brought great results. So I go with my gut sometimes and it sometimes does fall flat, but it's sure worth it when it doesn't. Plus, it IS fun telling Leo in an e-mail that I publically called him a scumbag.
B