View Full Version : The BEST Camsite EVER!! Because it's YOURS!!
EricaErotica
06-25-2011, 02:23 AM
Hey Bambalina,
Please save me a spot! I am very interested in this opportunity!!!
Melonie
06-25-2011, 04:04 AM
^^^ not wanting to rain on anybody's parade, but as somebody who used to operate her own adult website and independent webcam I think that I should point out a potential legal issue.
A new law was introduced a few years back named Section 2257 a.k.a. the 'Tracy Lords' law. This law created strict record-keeping requirements for models' ID and proof of age for both the 'primary producers' and 'secondary producers' of adult material ... and enacted severe legal penalties for failure to do so. When a girl 'works for' a major webcam host, the webcam host is the 'secondary producer' and thus bears the responsibility for complying with Section 2257. But when the webcam girl is the 'owner' of the website she is both the 'primary and secondary producer' thus Section 2257 compliance responsibility falls on her. And complying with Section 2257 is more difficult for a webcam than it is for an adult website since the 'content' is created live minute by minute.
The potential risks of being found in violation of Section 2257 ( potentially a federal felony sex crime ), and the potential compliance side effects for a 'primary and secondary producer' ( such as granting advance consent to a warrantless search of the premesis where the adult video stream is produced ) motivated me to take down my independent webcam and move to a webcam hosting service instead ... despite the fact that I went from keeping 80% of customer money to only 50%. If anyone is seriously considering putting themselves in the position of being both the 'primary and secondary producer' of adult material, and particularly in the case where that adult material is 'live stream' versus posted pictures / videos ( which makes the use of a 3rd party Custodian of Records extremely difficult ), I strongly recommend doing the necessary legal research into Section 2257 compliance.
a very up-to-date legal overview can be found at
(snip)"as a practical matter, any producers who are counting on invalidation of 2257 [ via legal appeals - which are all being lost - sic ] as their records-keeping strategy need to wake up and read the tea leaves – to mix a metaphor. All producers of 2257-triggering content should be in full compliance by now, in preparation for another potential loss on appeal, and eventual enforcement of the statute. Moreover, given Congress’s track record lately and waning public approval of the current Administration, a rigorous enforcement plan could be very likely if there is a Republican to answer to in 2013.(snip)
(snip)"For the foreseeable future, the industry needs to take a second look at its records keeping and labeling compliance status. This includes so-called user generated content sites which have taken liberal advantage of the 2257 exemptions, even in some cases where the content is not truly user-generated, or does not fall into the recognized exemptions. It’s time to dot the I’s and cross the T’s with your 2257 records, because the writing may be on the wall, for those who choose to see."(snip)
and from
(snip)"The 2257 Regulations and Live Chat
Live adult videoconferencing, otherwise known as “live chat”, has become one of the most profitable market segments of the online adult entertainment industry. As I have frequently discussed in previous articles, live content is one of the areas of the adult business that is, and is likely to remain, relatively resistant to the negative effects of content piracy, along with adult dating, erotic novelties sales, and sexually-explicit virtual worlds services. It is no wonder that a huge portion of traffic generated at tube sites is sold or directed to live content providers.
But, unfortunately, as with previous cycles of new adult entertainment business development, more often than not, new adult cam businesses tend to operate, at least initially, under a management mandate of “generate the sales now and talk to the lawyer later”. Having been one of the principal lawyers in the business for so many years, I am sorry to say that the prevalence of this unfortunate and misguided business philosophy, and its application in the live cam business arena, is hardly surprising. But it is for me, and should be for any participant in, or affiliate of, a live cam business, a matter of great concern if the cam business is not in compliance with the 2257 Regulations. And unfortunately, I am sorry to say, many cam businesses are simply not in full compliance with the 2257 Regulations.
The problem starts with the fact that many cam business operators, live content aggregators and cam performers simply do not know that the 2257 Regulations apply to transmissions of live content as well as recorded content. For many years prior to the FSC’s first challenge to the 2257 Regulations and the subsequent changes to 28 CFR 75, it was only Robert Sarno and I, along with a relatively small number of other adult entertainment attorneys, that believed that the 2257 Regulations fully applied to live content. Litigation with the government, which resulted in Department of Justice (“DOJ”) opinions regarding the matter, subsequently published DOJ comments and, ultimately, new explicit regulatory provisions pertaining to live content (e.g., the requirement to store brief recordings of live cam shows in the 2257 records), all proved that our interpretation was indeed correct all along.
Nevertheless, like the supposed “2 photographic IDs requirement”, the erroneous 2257 counseling by some lawyers regarding the inapplicability of the 2257 Regulations to live content years ago, which unfortunately was repeatedly disseminated by armchair lawyer-wannabes on the boards, seems to have left a somewhat indelible mark on the collective psyche of the industry.
But above and beyond the common misperception that the 2257 Regulations do not apply to live content, is a widespread and increasing problem of a lack of understanding of who has to keep the 2257 records pertaining to live cam content and how the live content must be properly labeled to indicate were those records are maintained. This is, in my opinion, becoming a problem of epidemic proportions as literally thousands of online chat performers are in the business of creating content subject to the 2257 Regulations (“2257 Content”) on a daily basis.
In a nutshell, here’s the problem. The party that initially creates 2257 Content is defined as a “producer” in the 2257 Regulations. In fact, the party that originally creates the content is defined as a “primary producer” in 28 CFR 75.1. As such, the producer has an obligation to create and maintain the records required by the 2257 Regulations in precisely the manner the law prescribes.
In the case of an independent live chat performer providing live content for an adult cam website, can you guess who the primary producer of the live show content is? Well I can tell you that I have seen many surprised faces of live cam performers, cam company owners and live cam marketing affiliates over the years as I have informed them that the primary producer of explicit live cam content is almost always the cam performer. After my disclosure there are usually two responses, one following quickly upon the heels of the other. The first is, “oh yea, that makes sense”, followed by “does that mean the performers have to have all the 2257 records?”
Given that the primary producers in the live adult cam business are, more often than not, what the business calls “talent”, i.e., persons not traditionally known for their record-keeping skills, it should go without saying that the exploding adult live cam business is like an accelerating train on a collision course with the next republican DOJ enforcement mountain. It is a sobering thought in the live cam context that all producers under the 2257 Regulations are subject to FBI inspections and prosecution for any, even trivial, violations of any of their dozens of record-keeping and labeling requirements. To get a handle on how big this problem could be, consider, for example, how many live cam performers currently affix a proper 2257 statement to their live shows indicating where the records for their shows are maintained.
And lest one might be led to believe that problems associated with 2257 Regulations compliance in the context of live cam performances are limited to the primary producer-performers, consider the following. Another potential legal train wreck in the making results from the criminal liability exposure faced by parties benefiting by, or otherwise associated with, a live chat performer’s failure to comply with the 2257 Regulations. This problem, can reach, for example, to content aggregators, such as companies that contract with independent live cam performers to provide live content through the aggregator’s site(s). It can also reach to marketing affiliates that send traffic to such aggregation sites or to the non-compliant cam performers directly. "(snip)
~
Bambalina
06-25-2011, 04:35 AM
^^^ not wanting to rain on anybody's parade, but as somebody who used to operate her own adult website and independent webcam I think that I should point out a potential legal issue.
There follows a whole wonderful bunch of 2257 advice. I agree with all of it and I think that we need to take it very seriously in our discussions.
Also thank you so much Melonie for the reminder!
However, there is two things here that will happen. First and foremost, we will be hiring a 2257 compliance expert (lawyer) to handle this aspect for us upfront, and secondly we will not be the Primary and Secondary Producers, since the whole Collective will almost surely be incorporated or LLCed. This way the camgirls who own it will be legally one step removed from the 2257 process (especially since they have ME, who will NOT be camming.) and so we should be Ok. But you bring up great points and I thank you so much.
B
Bambalina
06-25-2011, 04:48 AM
In the case of an independent live chat performer providing live content for an adult cam website, can you guess who the primary producer of the live show content is? Well I can tell you that I have seen many surprised faces of live cam performers, cam company owners and live cam marketing affiliates over the years as I have informed them that the primary producer of explicit live cam content is almost always the cam performer. After my disclosure there are usually two responses, one following quickly upon the heels of the other. The first is, “oh yea, that makes sense”, followed by “does that mean the performers have to have all the 2257 records?”
Given that the primary producers in the live adult cam business are, more often than not, what the business calls “talent”, i.e., persons not traditionally known for their record-keeping skills, it should go without saying that the exploding adult live cam business is like an accelerating train on a collision course with the next republican DOJ enforcement mountain. It is a sobering thought in the live cam context that all producers under the 2257 Regulations are subject to FBI inspections and prosecution for any, even trivial, violations of any of their dozens of record-keeping and labeling requirements. To get a handle on how big this problem could be, consider, for example, how many live cam performers currently affix a proper 2257 statement to their live shows indicating where the records for their shows are maintained.
And lest one might be led to believe that problems associated with 2257 Regulations compliance in the context of live cam performances are limited to the primary producer-performers, consider the following. Another potential legal train wreck in the making results from the criminal liability exposure faced by parties benefiting by, or otherwise associated with, a live chat performer’s failure to comply with the 2257 Regulations. This problem, can reach, for example, to content aggregators, such as companies that contract with independent live cam performers to provide live content through the aggregator’s site(s). It can also reach to marketing affiliates that send traffic to such aggregation sites or to the non-compliant cam performers directly. "(snip)
~
Ah, but Melonie, this is something which I have been saying for quite some time. This last part is less of a problem for this collective site and more of a problem for EVERY camgirl doing business, since NONE of them (pretty much) follow the regulations of 2257. What this says is that the MAIN problem and the main FBI slam will come upon actual CAMGIRLS who work for MFC and SM and the other big box sites, since every one of them is an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR and so is just allowing MFC and SM to Aggregate their live shows for ease of use. The GIRLS are the primary producers.
Now a few lawyers I have spoken to have said that they believe that any girl can generally provide enough 2257 data to stay out of legal hotwater, BUT that the hotwater is still there, because they do not not ever follow the labeling requirements and so on.
With a new camsite, we can do that.
Personally, I would love to see you post this stuff on the main forum for ALL camgirls, so it isn't only read by those who are into this collective idea.
ALL camgirls need to know this stuff.
B
Melonie
06-25-2011, 04:50 AM
^^^ I'd think twice about that interpretation ...
again from
(snip)"Do the 2257 Regulations apply to live cam shows and require the creation and maintenance of 2257 records for such live cam show content?
Yes. Many live cam business operators, live content aggregators and live cam performers simply do not know that the 2257 Regulations apply to live content and those that produce and exploit it.
The party that initially creates live 2257 Content will generally fall under the 2257 Regulations’ definition of a “producer”. In fact, the party that originally creates a digitized image of “an actual human being engaged in actual or simulated sexually explicit conduct” is defined as a “primary producer” under 28 CFR 75.1. As such, the live content producer has an obligation to create and maintain the records required by the 2257 Regulations in precisely the manner the law prescribes. In the case of an independent live chat performer providing live content for use by a cam company, this would almost always impose the record-keeping and labeling obligation on the live cam performer.
The 2257 Regulations also impose an obligation upon non-producer distributors of live 2257 Content. The so-called “2257 distributor obligation” set forth at 18 U.S.C. §2257 (f)(4) and 18 U.S.C. §2257A(f)(4) applies to non-producer sellers and distributors of adult content even though they are not obligated to maintain records as a primary or secondary producer. Specifically, 18 U.S.C. §2257(f)(4) and 18 U.S.C. §2257A(f)(4) each sets forth the 2257 distributor obligation stating that it is unlawful for any person to knowingly sell, offer for sale, or transfer, any content that is subject to the 2257 Regulations which does not have a compliance statement describing where the records required to be kept by the producer of the content are located.
This express prohibition against advertising, selling or transferring “2257 content” if it does not have a proper compliance statement is, unfortunately, not nearly as well-known as the infamous record-keeping and labeling requirements imposed on primary and secondary producers. It is, in fact, a third type of obligation under the 2257 Regulations in addition to the record keeping and labeling requirements. It is an obligation applicable to a person or entity that transfers the content regardless of whether they initially produced the material (i.e., as a primary producer) or merely uploaded the content to, or manage the content on, a website (i.e., as a secondary producer). Thus, an aggregator and distributor of content subject to the 2257 Regulations, including live content, produced by others should take care to be sure that such content contains appropriate compliance statements. "(snip)
... in other words, any aggregator / distributor of adult content can be found in violation of Section 2257 if any of their 'primary producer' camgirls are in violation of Section 2257 and they advertise, sell or transfer content from that camgirl !
Of course, the REAL Section 2257 worry isn't today it's 2014 ...
(snip)"Since there have not been any 2257 inspections under President Obama and since the law has been challenged in court, is compliance with the 2257 Regulations something I have to worry about right now?
Despite a number of attempts to invalidate the 2257 Regulations on constitutional grounds, the law has so far withstood each challenge. The 2257 Regulations are, therefore, the completely valid and fully enforceable law of the land. As such, full compliance with the 2257 Regulations is mandatory, and any violation of the 2257 Regulations will continue to be a very serious federal crime.
But while required full compliance with the 2257 Regulations is a legal reality, it is also true that the 2257 records inspections commenced under the Bush administration have been suspended by the current administration. Many adult entertainment attorneys, myself included, have stated that there also is a relatively low probability of recommencement of 2257 inspections or of any new 2257 prosecutions under the current administration. Many in the industry have misinterpreted these views, however, as downplaying the importance of continued full compliance with the 2257 Regulations believing that any current lack of compliance does not put them in jeopardy. This is an unfortunate and erroneous view because it fails to account for the fact that the government has up to five-years from the date of a 2257 Regulations violation to commence criminal prosecution of the violator. This means that if President Obama is not re-elected, any current noncompliance with the 2257 Regulations is already subject to prosecution by the next administration."(snip)
And in regard to the 'labelling' requirements, where webcam girls are concerned 100% compliance means they must post their home address on their webcam site since it is the official location of their 'production' ( or engage their own 3rd party Custodian of Records at their own expense ). THIS was a major reason that I took down my independent webcam !!!
As to making a general issue about Section 2257 compliance, I hesitate to do that since I already have acquired a reputation as a purveyor of 'doom and gloom' ... and I also know that 99% of camgirls have absolutely no conception of the potential impact of future Section 2257 prosecutions by a 'conservative' government, even if the gov't dispenses with criminal trials in federal court and 'merely' tries to extract $10,000 fines.
4everresolutions
06-25-2011, 05:08 AM
This topic has piqued my interests.
I've never cam'd, but have been toying with the idea for a while - especially thinking it will be a good alternative to dancing when I go back to school in September.
I don't want to say I'm 'in" because I've never cam'd, but come late summer I'll be lurking around for more info; if I were to start camming I'd have no qualms with a small payout of $100 to keep more of my money.
Also wanted to say I think the whole idea is amazing and I really hope it grows legs and takes off!
Melonie
06-25-2011, 05:10 AM
^^^ agreed, and if Bambalina does everything right it could wind up being one of the very few totally 'legal' adult webcam organizations in existance. I might even come out of 'retirement' if this could actually be pulled off !
more of a problem for EVERY camgirl doing business, since NONE of them (pretty much) follow the regulations of 2257. What this says is that the MAIN problem and the main FBI slam will come upon actual CAMGIRLS who work for MFC and SM and the other big box sites, since every one of them is an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR and so is just allowing MFC and SM to Aggregate their live shows
Indeed !!! I see that you have envisioned a potential future scenario to that put forth by my own attorney when I decided to take down my own webcam ... i.e. the FBI barging into a big box webcam aggregator site, seizing 2257 records of every webcam girl who has worked for that aggregator site over the past five years, and sending each of those girls a 'settlement agreement' giving the webcam girls the option of paying a $10,000 'settlement' fine without admission of guilt, versus hiring their own attorney to defend them in federal court, or pleading guilty to a federal felony sex crime.
~
Bambalina
06-25-2011, 05:26 AM
Hahaha...thanks Melonie...in this case doing everything right will be me making strident use of my voice to keep the whole thing going in a legal direction. And definitely, 3rd party 2257 is the way to go as this keeps the privacy of the girls safe as well as making sure the 3rd party compliance company will have everything they need for each and every girl. That way the girls don't end up having some big hassle and record keeping nightmare.
B
Melonie
06-25-2011, 05:32 AM
^^^ agreed on the 3rd party Custodian of Records. As webcam host / server adminstrator, you could pull that off too by automatically capturing daily snippets of each girl's webcam stream and automatically sending them to your 3rd party Custodian's location for 'remote' records storage.
The tough part though will be convincing your webcam girls to meet the 'labelling' requirements i.e. agreeing to post the physical address of their webcam 'studio' somewhere on their webcam page. For your own part, as a distributor / aggregator, the letter of the law exempts you from liability if the address provided isn't exactly genuine ( at least according to the adult law attorney I posted above ).
I'm really intrigued by your concept ! In fact, the potential exists that if/when the political pendulum swings 'conservative' again 2-3 year down the road, the FBI and DOJ could essentially bankrupt and close down every single big box adult webcam host now in existance ( and operating in technical violation of Section 2257 ) ... leaving your new webcam site with a near monopoly ( for a while anyhow ! ).
~
Bambalina
06-26-2011, 08:27 AM
I think that one thing most people forget in the 2257 stuff is that there are quite a few sites out there who do not put up ANY 2257 notices and I think we're going to see a long time of those being busted before any enforcement comes to the "Semi-Compliant" sites. And from there, there is some VERY poorly compliant sites, as opposed to pretty darned compliant sites...like MFC and SM.
Also, it is good to remember that the law as interpreted by attorneys is just that "interpretation". No one knows just how this will all wash out, but I have seen VERY little in the way of attorneys who think that the actual webcam girls will end up being legally liable to do something which can clearly be shown to endanger their safety. At this moment, I have also seen a few opinions which said that the wording is vague. I personally have not seen the wording which states that webcam girls will have to post publicly the physical address of their "studio". Can you cite that section of the law? It would go a long way in getting these women motivated for the class action that needs to be undertaken.
Anyway, I think this collective can solve a LOT of problems, especially since it cares about the possible exposures to law, where SM and MFC and LJ and the others don;t even pretend to.
B
Bambalina
06-26-2011, 02:37 PM
Yay!!! Found another possible web designer who said they can do a full sized big box high profile type camsite with all the bells and whistles for us....and the price is ABOUT the same depending on how many options we add....
Not too bad....we can almost do this within a few weeks.
B
tropicalust
06-26-2011, 03:17 PM
yay!! im so excitedd!! :) today is the chat righttt???
Melonie
06-26-2011, 03:50 PM
it is good to remember that the law as interpreted by attorneys is just that "interpretation". No one knows just how this will all wash out, but I have seen VERY little in the way of attorneys who think that the actual webcam girls will end up being legally liable to do something which can clearly be shown to endanger their safety. At this moment, I have also seen a few opinions which said that the wording is vague.
Again I can only go by what my own attorney has told me ... and the general outcome of the legal appeals ... which ALL seem to be favoring the gov't over the adult websites and video producers. But what ARE known to be factual are the 5 year statute of limitations, meaning that a future gov't could decide to prosecute Section 2257 violations which are taking place TODAY ... and also the repeated court rulings that even a trivial violation can result in the full force of Section 2257 penalties being brought to bear.
In pragmatic discussions with my own attorney prior to taking down my own webcam site, the probable future outcome is likely to be ...
- the gov't is not interested in actually sentencing any webcam girls to jail time - that would be reserved for major producers
- the gov't IS interested in enhancing its revenues, thus a high probability that future 'enforcement' will involve Wall St-esque 'settlement' offers in exchange for payment of BIG fines i.e $10,000. This would close down adult webcam sites via 'settlement' terms and/or bankruptcy just as effectively as prosecution / incarceration at far less 'cost' to the gov't.
- in the event that a webcam girl were to reject a future 'settlement' offer in lieu of prosecution, the legal fees associated with defending herself in federal court will likely be at LEAST the $10,000 ballpark, if not 2-3 times that after all is said and done.
- a guilty verdict would place a federal sex crime felony conviction on the webcam girl's permanent record, effectively cutting her off from any future 'straight' job opportunities ... as well as restricting where she can live in the future, forcing her to report her sex offender status to local cops and neighbors etc.
- in some states and with many employers, the mere existance of a federal sex crime felony CHARGE on her record may effectively be used against her
Agreed that your fresh approach to a new webcam aggregation business model will have far less probability of attracting Section 2257 attention than many of the big box webcam sites. Despite the Obama administrations' choice not to devote attention to Section 2257 enforcement, there are no guarantees that this will remain the case in the future. This could be EXTREMELY important in a possible future scenario where ...
- a Tea Party candidate like Michelle Bachman winds up as the next president,
- her administration decides to address two 'problems' at the same time by going after the adult industry with emphasis on collection of fine money rather than ejudication / incarceration
- the 5 year reverse time limitation and the existance of ( compliant or non-compliant ) Section 2257 information files at every major webcam aggregator and video producer will provide the gov't with a ready list of perhaps 1/2 million webcam girls, porn actresses, adult models etc. who are active in the business TODAY and potentially in violation of Section 2257.
- if investigated and approached with threat of prosecution, not one in 100 of those 1/2 million girls would be in a position to pay an attorney $10,000+ to mount a defense in federal court ( with a 'free' defense by a public defender highly favoring a guilty verdict ).
- if found guilty in federal court, a year in a federal prison is not out of the question ... on top of the federal felony sex crime conviction essentially ruining any future chances for a normal life.
As you already pointed out, the vast VAST majority of webcam girls have no idea whatsoever as to the sort of potential MAJOR legal risk they are assuming by violating Section 2257 requirements. Your proposed new website would certainly go a very long way towards minimizing those risks.
PS from subsection 75.4 (snip)Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make such records available at the producer's place of business.(snip). If that (primary)'producer' is a webcam girl, and her 'place of business' is a home webcam studio, and if the webcam girl is a separate 'independent contractor' business entity, then her home studio business address must be posted on the website for Section 2257 labelling compliance.
According to my own attorney, there ARE ways to transfer the 'primary producer' webcam girls' official 'place of business' to the aggregator / reseller's location or even a third party location to circumvent this requirement, but that will require far more legal paperwork between each webcam girl, the aggregator / reseller, and a third party Custodian, than a girl simply 'signing up' to supply a webcam video stream. For example this may involve the necessity of establishing a business relationship OTHER than 'independent contractor' between the webcam girls and the aggregator / reseller ... i.e. the webcam girls becoming 'employees' of the aggregator / reseller and being paid base salary plus sales commissions - employees whose business location is officially the aggregator / reseller's business location, with their home studio webcams thus legally becoming a form of employee 'telecommuting'. Something similar could take place via structuring your business as a Master Limited Partnership with the webcam girls becoming junior limited partners ... but that would also require a tangible 'investment' in your business on the part of the webcam girls. But if the webcam girls remain as separate business entities, the posting of the address of their legal place of business is unavoidable for Section 2257 compliance.
~
naughtycammer
06-26-2011, 04:04 PM
I don't have an extra $100 right now but I definitely want to model on your site Bamb. :)
laurielegs
06-26-2011, 06:53 PM
Ladies - come on into chat and discuss!
http://forum.stripperweb.com/showthread.php?t=156910
Bambalina
06-27-2011, 09:59 AM
So awesome chat...for those on the Collective Forum, there will be a transcript as well.
I am getting some bids from programmers, so those who want to play, you NEED to have your voices heard now as to features and stuff....Get involved...PM me if you don't know how...
B
crispy
06-27-2011, 10:32 AM
i just now saw this thread. im quite very possibly in.
Niko-n-Justine
06-27-2011, 11:07 AM
The idea is appealing, but I agree that it would take a very firm plan to pull me away from MFC. There are a lot of legalities involved with this industry, so it would have to be very intricately combed over... but in theory i would be highly interested as well.
kittykrane
06-27-2011, 11:13 AM
I'm interested!
tropicalust
06-27-2011, 12:57 PM
For those of you that are interested and missed our chat yesterday, pm bambalina or me and we can give you more details.
This project rocks! :)
Thank you so much for everything Bambalina!
laurielegs
06-27-2011, 01:12 PM
The idea is appealing, but I agree that it would take a very firm plan to pull me away from MFC. There are a lot of legalities involved with this industry, so it would have to be very intricately combed over... but in theory i would be highly interested as well.
Legalities? From what I can see MFC is the absolute worst offender as far as legalities! There are free full-on XXX shows 24/7 on there and nothing to prevent minors from watching.
The sad thing is I bet if anyone gets in trouble it would be the cam host, since they have rules in place, though they don't enforce them.
JuliaSands
06-27-2011, 01:15 PM
The idea sounds great, but..
Is $10.000 really enough for programmers, lawyers, 3rd party 2257 rec holders, traffic buying, advertising etc etc
Not trying to throw a negative on the idea, but trying to get a realistic look on things.
Where did you get the $100 figure from Bambalina? Just wondering if it is realistic.
Julia
AngelCummings
06-27-2011, 03:03 PM
So awesome chat...for those on the Collective Forum, there will be a transcript as well.
I am getting some bids from programmers, so those who want to play, you NEED to have your voices heard now as to features and stuff....Get involved...PM me if you don't know how...
B
Bambalina can you please make a master emailing list or something to give the Collective who have committed to this updates and times for chats, etc.? That would be awesome :)
AngelCummings
06-27-2011, 03:13 PM
Legalities? From what I can see MFC is the absolute worst offender as far as legalities! There are free full-on XXX shows 24/7 on there and nothing to prevent minors from watching.
The sad thing is I bet if anyone gets in trouble it would be the cam host, since they have rules in place, though they don't enforce them.
Thank you so much for saying this, Laurie... You bring up a great point. I mentioned this a few months ago in the MyFreeCams thread about how that (along with some other concerns) is why I haven't really put a lot into MyFreeCams. There isn't a lot in place to protect minors, and to me, that's a VERY big concern.
Lusty Laken
06-27-2011, 08:08 PM
Also interested in future chat times. I haven't been on for a few days so I missed the first one.
boobygirl
06-28-2011, 02:23 AM
All these legal issues presumably only apply in the US 2257 doesn't exist anywhere else. So for girls outside of the US (and i believe this is a signifcant proportion of us on here) this is not an issue.
Couldn't the site be hosted and registered outside of the US? I'm guessing this is why SM is registered in Cyprus and LJ in portugal - to get around any potential legal issues.
I'm not sure about this - i'm not a lawyer but this seems to be a grey area. What does 2257 actually relate to? Is it concened with where the material is being produced or where it is being distributed (or both)?
I could definitely see a conservative US administration going after cam girls as a revenue generating exercise as much as anything else. I doubt they'd be concerned with girls outside of the US - they're not going to bother to extradite anyone for $10,000.
So if this were a collective, with girls from all over the world presumably it would make sense for the business not to be registered in the US but to choose a country with the most relaxed laws and have it registered there instead? Would this solve the problem?
boobygirl
06-28-2011, 04:22 AM
Ok done some reading on 2257. Can't say i've spent lots of time examining it and it's very dry (as you'd expect) but my (basic) understanding is that if the company is hosted outside the US and the servers with actual material on them are also located outside the US then there are no 'secondary performer' legal issues.
However there would be 'primary performer' legal issues if you are a US citizen and resident in the US - as an individual you need to adhere to 2257. So basically if you're from the states and you are not keeping the necessary records etc YOU are breaking the law as it stands. They could come for you but whether they will or not is a different matter. Enforcement in these sort of cases is usually pragmatic i.e. does the amount of money they stand to gain from prosecuting you outweigh the costs of investigation and prosecution. So, if they go after any performers, they'll go after the cam girls that make a lot money and that have been around a long time. There is no point issuing $10,000 fines if they have no chance that the fine can or will be paid. They're not going to start locking people up for it - the prisons are already far too full and it costs a lot of money to keep someone locked up. Spare cash is one thing the US does not have right now and this is only going to get worse - if the republicans do get in they're going to have a hard time balancing their moral stance with the pressure to cut national debt and keep taxes low - basically an impossible task. So they'll make pragmaitc decisions about who they go after - they'll pursue where they think the money is - and that's not us - it's the cam sites.
Bambalina
06-28-2011, 09:30 AM
The idea sounds great, but..
Is $10.000 really enough for programmers, lawyers, 3rd party 2257 rec holders, traffic buying, advertising etc etc
Not trying to throw a negative on the idea, but trying to get a realistic look on things.
Where did you get the $100 figure from Bambalina? Just wondering if it is realistic.
Julia
Normally I'd say $20k to start a camsite. But if you really sit and think about the most horrible expenses, I think you'll see a collective of beautiful women has some advantages in this start-up that REGULAR folk do not.
On top of this, whatever else I am in all this, I am a promoter, and at least at the beginning, I work cheap...:)
The 2257 stuff is not THAT expensive.
Lawyers, well we'll need to be creative. But that is also a very interesting thing to discuss in the next chat.
The $100 figure was because if you are a camgirl and CAN'T afford it, then you don;t belong camming...yet it amasses enough money to get this whole thing rolling. Personally, we discussed that it is one share per person until 25 and then opens up for people to purchase extra shares if they would like...Once I see this being programmed and finished and know it is FOR SURE happening, I will probably buy whatever the limit of shares is...because I cannot see this idea failing.
B
Bambalina
06-28-2011, 09:32 AM
Bambalina can you please make a master emailing list or something to give the Collective who have committed to this updates and times for chats, etc.? That would be awesome :)
Yes, I'd love to do this! If I can actually clear my clogged e-mail on here, I'd love if EVERY person who is "in" sends me an e-mail address where I can reach them.
Can ya do it? Pleeeeease?
B
Bambalina
06-28-2011, 09:40 AM
The idea is appealing, but I agree that it would take a very firm plan to pull me away from MFC. There are a lot of legalities involved with this industry, so it would have to be very intricately combed over... but in theory i would be highly interested as well.
Why would we want to "pull you away" from MFC darlin'? You can stay on MFC and do this. We need a bit of your time and we'd hope you come cam for a few hours a couple times a week, but whatever, there is NO NEED for anyone to QUIT anything to be part of this. Feel free to SM and MFC...There is no RULES in that sense on this site...This site is about making money for the girls who are on here...and we ESPECIALLY understand that at the beginning when the traffic is smaller, that women will need to work their good paying places. No problem. We just as that you remember if your an owner, that it is a good idea to also put SOME time in on the new site and help get it rolling.
Legality is not as hard as you think, and as others point out, MFC is a terrible example of legality. A lawyer can tell us if there are potential areas we will run into hot water and what to do about them and we'll fix it...not so hard...
This is an idea unlike any in the past of camming and I think all the women who DON'T participate and are around today, will be terribly sorry someday...But I will not twist any arms because I think finding buyers for 100 shares will really not be hard.
B
Bambalina
07-06-2011, 01:47 PM
Chat is now finalized to Wednesdays and Sundays on CGU.
I need E-mails for the e-mail list if you haven't given me one yet.
And things are otherwise moving nicely.
B
kballar
07-06-2011, 02:11 PM
Are we chatting tonight? :)
RedShoes
07-06-2011, 02:13 PM
Chat is now finalized to Wednesdays and Sundays on CGU.
I need E-mails for the e-mail list if you haven't given me one yet.
And things are otherwise moving nicely.
B
Hi Bambalina,
I am interested in joining the collective, I haven't even really started camming yet just marketing myself first, until I can afford to buy the camera. I am currently unemployed and my unemployment is about to run out. My boyfriend is a really good graphic designer if we need help designing the site, logo making that type of thing. How many spots are there left for the first 25?
Thanks,
Hilary
07-06-2011, 08:56 PM
I am very interested! I'd love to be apart!
crazybeautiful
07-11-2011, 04:41 PM
I would love love love to be a part of this if there is still room.
crazybeautiful
07-11-2011, 05:46 PM
I will also be starting at a very well known law school in the fall, though obviously not learned enough to handle any issues currently, hopefully will be one day 'soonish'. Might be of use for this in the future! I tried to send you a pm but I am not sure if it went through. Will try again shortly as I would love to be a part of this.
Marleysade
07-12-2011, 12:21 AM
IM in too! But quike question..Whats CGU? lol and i send you my email to you here/ just checking
diamondsociety87
07-18-2011, 02:23 PM
Ive been camming for about 4 months now and I love it.... And I would also like to be involved with the cam site. Can you tell me where to sign up?
JulietJ
07-18-2011, 08:02 PM
Soooo absolutely, 100%, DOWN!! :) Please count me in Bambalina :)
alexxxi
07-22-2011, 06:06 AM
I want to be in, too! :) I've PM'ed my email address to you.
Preslye
07-24-2011, 08:31 PM
Hello Ladies,
I am new here to SW. This is ultimately going to be my first post. However I have been on MFC for about 3 months now. I am very interested in this venture and I am completely willing to pledge $100.00 to see a site like this to become a reality. Thanks Ladies!
mstuscany
07-31-2011, 10:52 AM
I am new to this site and was desparately seeking guidance as a cam girl of 2 years. I would love to be a part of this venture! An absolutle answer to prayers!! $100 investment the way I see it!
Bambalina
08-07-2011, 02:06 AM
I have found a few programmers who are willing to take on our site, or are interested in working our a deal for source they already own or have written, so we need to start ramping up the chats and e-mail list and really get this rolling.
B
ChicAngel
08-23-2011, 09:26 AM
Interested! New here.. but not new to the web!
Wonderful work thus far! (something I've wanted to do but never had the right means.)
graphic designer/web designer/developer and webcam performer on n off since 2002.
Bambalina
08-23-2011, 12:08 PM
Well, we chat every Sunday and Wednesday, and anyone who is interested can come and visit. We have a mailing list, and we're working right now on nailing down EXACTLY what the designer needs to know to make the site be what we want it to be.
So, feel free to PM if you want a place in the scheme of things.
B
I think you should get your girls that send out emails to regulars... send their regulars a survey about what options they like on what cam sites and what options they don't. Get a programmer that kicks ass in flash programing, and has experience with application and streaming live video. Don't cut corners on that and you will kill your competition. What do you know about ppc advertising and seo? Maybe I should get in on this myself. Are you still accepting buy ins for cam girls? Is there an agreement in play?
Bambalina
08-23-2011, 02:07 PM
Yes, buy-ins are still do-able....
My background (other than camming) is promotion...
Working on agreement and site structure now...
B
tropicalust
08-24-2011, 11:23 AM
Chat today!!! whoohoooo Can't Wait :P
I should have got in on that. I get so damn busy. I guess I should get verified eh? lol
ukmissy
08-28-2011, 05:56 AM
B, how many girls have joined the collective ? You got any dates yet ? Edge of seat stuff ! ( No sarcasm intended !! )
xx