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lemiwinks31
06-28-2011, 03:24 PM
I am not taking the side of this guy, but we don't know much about the girlfriend. She may have trapped him into pregnancy, she might be a bitch, she might be lazy and he might be miserable.


Tell her...leave her...be honest....be a man.

No excuse for running around behind her back like a 14 yr old.

Brandi_Lynn
06-28-2011, 03:26 PM
Yeah..there are kids involved.....but they are HIS....

blame definitely on both sides....

but I would go 80% him for perpetrating this betrayal......20% her for enabling him.

Fair enough...I'll give alil more on that. Hopefully, she knows some boundries, though & stays the hell away from the kids. I've seen that happen occasionally & it never fails to blow my mind. Actually, my grandpa did that w/ my grandma sa couple times -before she stepped in.

Again, though, where the heck has the OP gone -she went AWOL. Hate that when people start things & then disappear. Ugh.

girlfromipanema
06-28-2011, 03:31 PM
There is no pride in taking a man away from a frazzled, exhausted woman struggling to take care of young children and her household while her husband acts like a whore. Any woman whose pussy gets all wet and tingly from that "feat" needs some therapy.

Absolutely. It's not like the guy lied to her and then she finds out months later that he has a family. She went into it full knowing that she is fucking up other people's lives but simply doesn't care. It is all fun and games to her.

None of us are saints. But normally when someone is doing something lowlife, even if they have no remorse, they keep it to themselves. Instead she comes on a public forum and vomits her dirty business with a smug, devil-may-care attitude. I can see why she has no friends to talk to.


Just when she needs his emotional support and physical help the most.....he runs away to play make believe with young hottie.

Yes, some people will leave you low. Extreme case is U.S. Senator John Edwards. He was visiting his mistress, with whom he had a love child while his wife was in the hospital suffering from cancer. She learns of the affair while she was battling cancer which she ended up dying from shortly thereafter. The world has become overrun with shallow minded, morally corrupt people.

Kellydancer
06-28-2011, 04:02 PM
Tell her...leave her...be honest....be a man.

No excuse for running around behind her back like a 14 yr old.

He should leave if it's that, but he might be afraid of leaving because of the consequences I'm by no means defending his behavior but there's always two sides to this story.

tempest666
06-28-2011, 04:13 PM
I am not taking the side of this guy, but we don't know much about the girlfriend. She may have trapped him into pregnancy, she might be a bitch, she might be lazy and he might be miserable. We don't even know if she works or stays at home yet people are assuming she's a stay at home mom who works hard. We don't know. She could be a lazy career girl or a lazy stay at home mom who sits and eats donuts then yells at him. She might be a saint and does everything right, but she could also be screwing around on him.

I am not defending the actions of this man or even the OP but we know little of the girlfriend in the story. She could be just as nasty as the man.


*cough cough* I need a doctor! Severe case of deja vu over here! :expert::doctor:

Kellydancer
06-28-2011, 04:20 PM
Oddly, when posted that I thought of your situation. We all know there are women who are nuts out there who do things to keep the man.

tempest666
06-28-2011, 04:27 PM
Oddly, when posted that I thought of your situation. We all know there are women who are nuts out there who do things to keep the man.


He never cheated on that psychotic cow, which goes to show he's a good man. Sorry to threadjack, but I doubt if the OP cares. I asked him, he said just let it go and I am. Case closed. I told him I was here for him if he wants to talk but other than that I'm leaving it alone.

Kellydancer
06-28-2011, 04:38 PM
He got a good woman now so he should be very happy. He went from a cow (no offense to cows) to a beautiful swan.

tempest666
06-28-2011, 04:50 PM
He got a good woman now so he should be very happy. He went from a cow (no offense to cows) to a beautiful swan.


Goddammit mods put the thanks function on my screen :grouphug:

thanks KD u better come to SW fest;D

Kellydancer
06-28-2011, 04:57 PM
Goddammit mods put the thanks function on my screen :grouphug:

thanks KD u better come to SW fest;D

I really hope I can because I want to meet you badly and everyone else.

Aurora_Sunset
06-28-2011, 07:56 PM
She may have trapped him into pregnancy, she might be a bitch, she might be lazy and he might be miserable. We don't even know if she works or stays at home yet people are assuming she's a stay at home mom who works hard. We don't know. She could be a lazy career girl or a lazy stay at home mom who sits and eats donuts then yells at him.


Honestly, I would say I don't think it matters. Maybe she is a bitch but feels justified because he's an ass.

Or, perhaps, she is an absolute bitch who's lazy and yells at him for no reason. But does that mean she deserves to have her relationship intruded upon selfishly? Some might say yes. I think that if things were truly that bad, he would get out. Even if he couldn't, the OP isn't doing this because she "feels sorry for him and his bad situation." She's already basically admitted it's all about her emotional gratification. Either way, he's still with her and I don't think anyone should feel justified in screwing with the relationship if he has yet to leave her. Nobody really knows what the gf is like except this guy. I doubt even the OP really knows half the truth about her, considering they've never met. Half the shit he talks about with her is probably showcasing the bad stuff and trying to put down his gf to make the OP feel "special" and "better" and "more important than her."

They have 2 young kids together and did break up at one point - given the stress of that situation and the fact that they didn't work out the first time, my guess is this relationship is doomed to end anyway. There's probably discontent toward the other person on both sides and lots of arguing. But unless the OP knows for a fact that this woman is just absolutely wicked and controlling him into not leaving her, she should back off. The point that we know nothing of the gf is a good one - because I don't think even the OP knows much about her either, so she shouldn't be sticking her nose into their relationship.

tempest666
06-28-2011, 08:47 PM
Just finished watching The Other Woman with Natalie Portman....it's a good movie, without being preachy in anyone's favor. I highly recommend it.

tempest666
06-29-2011, 02:11 PM
We have all made mistakes in our past. What defines you is if you learn from them or keep repeating them.

jack0177057
06-29-2011, 03:44 PM
If this thread had been - "I have an addiction/chemical dependency problem", you would have gotten more sympathy.

But, love/lust can become an addiction just like drugs. In fact, studies show that the same parts of the brain are stimulated by love/lust and by drugs.

http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/love-science.html

Its not just a question of morality, but of dealing with your addiction and taking the steps necessary to overcome it.

Brandi_Lynn
06-29-2011, 08:20 PM
If this thread had been - "I have an addiction/chemical dependency problem", you would have gotten more sympathy.

But, love/lust can become an addiction just like drugs. In fact, studies show that the same parts of the brain are stimulated by love/lust and by drugs.

http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/love-science.html

Its not just a question of morality, but of dealing with your addiction and taking the steps necessary to overcome it.

Oh please. This is just giving her an easy way to not own up to her own actions. Besides, she already stepped out of the thread awhile back. Ugh. >:(

jack0177057
06-30-2011, 07:59 AM
^ Not really. People with addictions ARE accountable for not seeking help and/or proper treatment. But, they must first understand and acknowledge that they have an addiction problem. The OP needs to stop romanticizing and rationalizing her "love" for this loser/son-of-a-bitch and just acknowledge she has an addiction that MUST be overcome like any other addiction. This is no sappy love story of lost opportunities - lonely ships that pass each other in the night. This is a story about an obsessive compulsive addiction like heroin, that violently and senselessly destroys everything in its path.

First step - change the mind frame; acknowledge the addiction.

Moral argument/criticism/guilt don't work on addicts. Criticism and moral judgments just make the addiction stronger - because: (1) "no one understands" and (2) the addictive behavior is her only way of "escaping" from the "persecution".

The best way to deal with an addict is to say - Look, I'm not going to pass judgment on what you've done up to now, because you've been an addict and your mind has been in a very messed up state. But, right now - you have to confront your addiction and you must overcome it.

Naida
07-01-2011, 06:28 PM
So it's been a few days. For those criticizing my lack of appearance, I am not running away or ducking out. I have been open and shameless since first coming to this forum, why am I going to wimp out now? But, to be honest, I am severely disappointed in some of the comments in this thread that have crossed a line into berating. It's one thing to give harsh opinions (because it can still be used constructively), it's something else entirely to engage in name calling that will get no one anywhere.

jack, I want to say thank you for your information on oxytocin and "love addiction". While that would have made a lot of sense in the beginning, we're far beyond a point of blaming it on a chemical dependency. I am able to recognize when I'm going on the chemical rollercoaster (that is the point of attraction that I refer to as infatuation- when I crave almost obsessively for a person), and can distinguish the difference when it's less the high and based more on the developed connection I've made with a person. To me, love is when that passionate "omg, I need him in my life!" has quited down and it becomes a comfortable "he is a part of my life." With the ex that I've resumed talking to, the oxytocin RUSH lasted for all of maybe two weeks when we first got together. We had lived together for months before making things official between us, so things just came naturally for us as a part of each others lives.

As for my counselling his relationship with her- I stay as objective as I can, but I admittedly have a bias in her favor. People would assume this wasn't the case, but it is. While it's easy to neglect her existance while we flirt, being directly faced with it is an entirely different story. Having four godchildren, a niece, a mother who was single for half my life and several female friends who are parents, it's hard to turn my back completely on another woman when he chooses to discuss their problems. Remember, I was an active support when they got back together in the first place! I'll listen and let him vent about whatever is bothering him and, despite how much some of the things I hear from him make me want to scream, I give him the most neutral advice that I can. When she complains about him not spending enough time with her, I tell him to find a sitter for the kids on his night off, do NOT contact me, and take her out some where. When she bitches about him being too obsessed with video games (he's a complete gamer nerd who DOES take it overboard), I remind him that four hours a day IS excessive. If they have problems, like every relationship is bound to at some point, I don't want to agitate the situation any more than I already have. If I ever feel like I can't say some thing positive or can find no reason to justify her behavior and side with her, I tell him that I'm not the person to talk to about it.

Which brings me to another point that KD brought up. What is she really like? Honestly, I can't answer this because I do not want to get to know her. All I have to go off of is what I've been told by him, his friends during the event, and the occasional comment I see from her on status messages and such. I was informed by his friends when we met that his girl was "a sorry, cold-hearted bitch"- THEIR WORDS, NOT MINE! Of course, they had not been apart long at that point and men will be immature some times- I took what they had to say about her with a grain of salt. I figured that if he wanted to get back with her, there had to be some kind of positive attribute to her. The only things I know without siding with some one's opinion of her-
I know that they have not married because she is still legally married to some one else (why she's still married after living with him for a year is beyond me; my divorce was settled about three months after I began actively pursuing it).
While he calls the oldest child his, her legal husband is the biological father.
She only worked for the first couple of months they were originally together. Since then, she has been a stay at home mom for the first and now second child.

He claims that she freaks out if he goes anywhere but work without her, while most of her outtings are solo? (Any time I've paid him a visit, it's been while he was off during his normal work hours) If this is true, it sounds a bit fishy, but I'll never say it to him. When he brings it up, I just encourage him to spend more time with her and try to be less of a (self-professed) asshole to her friends. But again, men will be immature and exagerrated frequently.

As for the children- NO NO NO! I have even less interest in meeting his kids than his girl! This entire situation, despite my want to continue, is already pushing the frayed limits of my ethics because they have kids. Becoming personally involved with their children is an entirely different, far more despicable level of slime that I have never and will never sink to. After watching my own stepfather cheat on my mother repeatedly, I can say that it's a different type of pain if the child knows the partner in crime. When a parent cheats with an unknown person, a kid feels confused and betrayed by one person, which can be traumatizing in and of itself when/if it comes to light. If they knew the assailant though, it's TWICE the betrayal and even MORE confusion than that. Even if he were single, I would put as much distance as possible between myself and the kids until I was SURE that we could have a stable, long term relationship.

For the time being- I've backed up to mostly platonic conversation topics and encouraged him to enjoy the holiday weekend with his family. As I mentioned before, I have been talking again with an ex whom I would love to have another chance with. Still not looking for a commitment with anyone just yet, but it is worth exploring since the ex is newly single again.

Take care, all!

tempest666
07-02-2011, 12:26 AM
Which brings me to another point that KD brought up. What is she really like? Honestly, I can't answer this because I do not want to get to know her. All I have to go off of is what I've been told by him, his friends during the event, and the occasional comment I see from her on status messages and such. I was informed by his friends when we met that his girl was "a sorry, cold-hearted bitch"- THEIR WORDS, NOT MINE! Of course, they had not been apart long at that point and men will be immature some times- I took what they had to say about her with a grain of salt. I figured that if he wanted to get back with her, there had to be some kind of positive attribute to her. The only things I know without siding with some one's opinion of her-
I know that they have not married because she is still legally married to some one else (why she's still married after living with him for a year is beyond me; my divorce was settled about three months after I began actively pursuing it).
While he calls the oldest child his, her legal husband is the biological father.
She only worked for the first couple of months they were originally together. Since then, she has been a stay at home mom for the first and now second child.

He claims that she freaks out if he goes anywhere but work without her, while most of her outtings are solo? (Any time I've paid him a visit, it's been while he was off during his normal work hours) If this is true, it sounds a bit fishy, but I'll never say it to him. When he brings it up, I just encourage him to spend more time with her and try to be less of a (self-professed) asshole to her friends. But again, men will be immature and exagerrated frequently.

As for the children- NO NO NO! I have even less interest in meeting his kids than his girl! This entire situation, despite my want to continue, is already pushing the frayed limits of my ethics because they have kids. Becoming personally involved with their children is an entirely different, far more despicable level of slime that I have never and will never sink to. After watching my own stepfather cheat on my mother repeatedly, I can say that it's a different type of pain if the child knows the partner in crime. When a parent cheats with an unknown person, a kid feels confused and betrayed by one person, which can be traumatizing in and of itself when/if it comes to light. If they knew the assailant though, it's TWICE the betrayal and even MORE confusion than that. Even if he were single, I would put as much distance as possible between myself and the kids until I was SURE that we could have a stable, long term relationship.

For the time being- I've backed up to mostly platonic conversation topics and encouraged him to enjoy the holiday weekend with his family. As I mentioned before, I have been talking again with an ex whom I would love to have another chance with. Still not looking for a commitment with anyone just yet, but it is worth exploring since the ex is newly single again.

Take care, all!


Are you sure he's not sticking it in my SO's ex? cuz that sounds like her to a T...Just add 40 llbs and some doughnuts :D

MarvelGirl
07-11-2011, 09:33 AM
You are most definitely an amazingly perfect human being. How noble and selfless of you to offer your counseling services at no charge. Every time this man sticks his penis into one of your orifices, you are definitely making his marriage stronger. His wife should award you with a medal and thank you for licking the spooge off of her husband's ballsack while she changes dirty diapers.

Someday, his children will thank you for your incredibly heroic act of saving their parents relationship with your vagina.

Jessie_tinydancer
07-11-2011, 05:54 PM
^Im pretty sure shes not having sex with him... its an emotional affair. But this can be even more damaging and hurtful. Physical is one thing but mental is an even bigger betrayal.

FiendishGyrator
07-11-2011, 06:30 PM
Wow... there's some really bitchy comments on here. Naida, while some of the stuff is constructive, a lot of it comes off as extremely cunt-ish.

You should be separating yourself and maybe have a slight hope for the future, and to my mind, even before I got to your most recent post, I was thinking-- for all we know, the guy could be trying to do what's right by sticking with a woman he doesn't love for the sake of the kids.
Doesn't mean he's perfect, but he and Naida aren't sleeping together.

While it's not likely (compared to the high percentage of cheating SOB's that he's your soulmate) it very well could be that he is. But even if that's the case, I would remove myself from the situation and if he missed me so terribly much, he would find a way to end things with his girlfriend, be a good dad, and start up with you.

I mean, c'mon-- she's still married to some other guy? What? Is she using that guy for child support and leaching off of the new boyfriend as well?

I think a lot of the bitchy comments are coming from women who think that their relationship could be threatened in such a way and are taking out their venom on the hypothetical woman that could be threatening THEIR relationship and projecting that onto you. That's not constructive. It's also rather narcissistic, like ya'll are getting a nice high off of being sanctimonious and yelling "homewrecker!"

I mean, really? This is a fucking stripper and adult entertainment forum. You don't think thousands if not MILLIONs of wives would be screaming "homewrecker!" at us because their husbands come to us on a weekly, monthly, and sometimes even daily basis for a little fantasy while spending household money on our lapdances? Yeah, we do it for the money, but as far as I can tell, Naida is doing her best in a difficult situation, not taking any money, and trying to help him be a better father/boyfriend, and taking a little bit from him emotionally, if that.

Now, Naida, it's not your place to make him a better father/boyfriend. Move on, and hope for the future.

The rest of you who are being shrewish slags, I can only shake my heads at you. Stop being such drama llamas!

lemiwinks31
07-12-2011, 09:48 AM
^Im pretty sure shes not having sex with him... its an emotional affair. But this can be even more damaging and hurtful. Physical is one thing but mental is an even bigger betrayal.


"A couple of months ago, around the time I got arrested and some one I loved left me, he contacted me again out of concern (he's always had this strange ability to sense when something is wrong in my life) We started talking on a strictly platonic basis- at first."


I assumed that this meant that they have since taken it beyond platonic in the physical sense...maybe not, If I interpreted this incorrectly, that would change my views.

FiendishGyrator
07-12-2011, 11:49 AM
^ nah, I think that meant they were trying very hard to keep the conversations platonic with no emotional overtones.

I don't think they've done the deed. I could be wrong though.

rickdugan
07-12-2011, 11:56 AM
I am fairly sure that this answers the sex question:


I'm not afraid to call this situation what it is. Cut and dry, he's cheating.I know that, while his girlfriend is aware of my existance in his life, she hasn't been told anything about our involvement on a romantic/sexual level...

Why am I involved with him? Because I have feelings for him. What I get from his involvement with me is a multitude of things that I want/need- a very close friend, some one I can confide in, some one that hasn't lied to me (I'm not scared to say he's probably hidden things from me, but I know that he hasn't lied), an emotional lover and a some times physical one when I'm around his way.

Now I am not actually judging this based on the sex. My issues revolve around his emotional attachment to her, which may contribute to his decision to leave the mother of his child. I really don't care if he dips his wick elsewhere, but there are two little hearts that are going to break if he decides to follow his own.

Kellydancer
07-12-2011, 12:27 PM
Wow... there's some really bitchy comments on here. Naida, while some of the stuff is constructive, a lot of it comes off as extremely cunt-ish.

You should be separating yourself and maybe have a slight hope for the future, and to my mind, even before I got to your most recent post, I was thinking-- for all we know, the guy could be trying to do what's right by sticking with a woman he doesn't love for the sake of the kids.
Doesn't mean he's perfect, but he and Naida aren't sleeping together.

While it's not likely (compared to the high percentage of cheating SOB's that he's your soulmate) it very well could be that he is. But even if that's the case, I would remove myself from the situation and if he missed me so terribly much, he would find a way to end things with his girlfriend, be a good dad, and start up with you.

I mean, c'mon-- she's still married to some other guy? What? Is she using that guy for child support and leaching off of the new boyfriend as well?

I think a lot of the bitchy comments are coming from women who think that their relationship could be threatened in such a way and are taking out their venom on the hypothetical woman that could be threatening THEIR relationship and projecting that onto you. That's not constructive. It's also rather narcissistic, like ya'll are getting a nice high off of being sanctimonious and yelling "homewrecker!"

I mean, really? This is a fucking stripper and adult entertainment forum. You don't think thousands if not MILLIONs of wives would be screaming "homewrecker!" at us because their husbands come to us on a weekly, monthly, and sometimes even daily basis for a little fantasy while spending household money on our lapdances? Yeah, we do it for the money, but as far as I can tell, Naida is doing her best in a difficult situation, not taking any money, and trying to help him be a better father/boyfriend, and taking a little bit from him emotionally, if that.

Now, Naida, it's not your place to make him a better father/boyfriend. Move on, and hope for the future.

The rest of you who are being shrewish slags, I can only shake my heads at you. Stop being such drama llamas!

Yes. Way too many people are attacking Naida for this when the other woman sounds like scum as well. Naida even said that this woman hasn't worked since she MET this guy and is a stay at home mom. Sounds like this guy is basically supporting a freeloading woman who refuses to work and would instead sponge off this guy. Before anyone says I am attacking stay at home moms, I am not, I am attacking this woman who sounds like the uses men. Not to mention this is not his wife, she's still someone else's wife. If these kids were both of his and she quit her job when the first child was born my opinion would be different. Of course he's pretty stupid allowing this from the get go and even hooking up with her, let alone having a baby with her.

I have been accused of being a homewrecker quite a few times because I sometimes had a customer who became attached to me and his wife got angry. I'm sure many of those attacking her have had this happen to them.

Do I think Naida should pursue him? Nope. I think she needs to get away from him. However, I'm just tired of people putting the GIRLFRIEND on a pedestal when she's no saint herself.

This:
I know that they have not married because she is still legally married to some one else (why she's still married after living with him for a year is beyond me; my divorce was settled about three months after I began actively pursuing it).
While he calls the oldest child his, her legal husband is the biological father.
She only worked for the first couple of months they were originally together. Since then, she has been a stay at home mom for the first and now second child.

Does this women Naida mentions sound like a great woman? Not to me. Of course there is a possibility this guy is lying but if this is true this tells a lot.

FiendishGyrator
07-12-2011, 12:33 PM
I am fairly sure that this answers the sex question:



Now I am not actually judging this based on the sex. My issues revolve around his emotional attachment to her, which may contribute to his decision to leave the mother of his child. I really don't care if he dips his wick elsewhere, but there are two little hearts that are going to break if he decides to follow his own.


Ah, yes. I agree, though I can see how many would draw the line somewhere and for a lot of people that's sex.

Still, I don't think she should be castigated, though she should move on.

As far as following his own though if he came after her, I think there's plenty of people who are parents who are together but should not be together for the sake of themselves and the children.

Naida
07-13-2011, 08:34 AM
To clarify on the sexual note- we have not had sex. We've "fooled around" and whatever, but we risk enough just seeing each other, I'm not ready to take the chance of doing "the deed" yet. So the physically sexual aspect basically consists of making out, heavy petting, and one sided oral (me giving, him recieving- he's tried to flip the script and go down on me, but I won't let him. Sure, there's mints and mouthwashes, but I don't want to even consider him having coochie breath when he goes home)

In all seriousness, bitch at me and talk shit all you want. I was expecting to get a lot of negative comments (maybe not THIS many, but a lot) when I started this thread. But please, while I appreciate the way some of you are looking at both sides, do NOT speak negatively of her. It's almost like adding insult to injury in my mind. I gave info because questions were posed about it, not to shine a negative light on her. As up and down as their relationship is to him, he's remained adament that he loves her. I can't believe he would stay with some one who possesses no positive qualities.

Back on topic to myself and how I'm handling the situation personally-

I have been open and frank with him about my continuing to date and the people I'm seeing. Even though I'm not oblivious to his own twinge of jealousy about it, he is supporting me in my effort to find some one for myself.
The ex I mentioned before was a bust. We saw each other, things were looking on the up and up for a few days. But last night, he reminded me of the one reason I didn't try harder to get him back earlier.
I've also been seeing a guy that I went to school with. Back in the day, I never really paid him any mind because we didn't have common friends at the time and I was not attracted to him. Just a handful of years changes a lot of things! He was obese back in school, but is now one of the healthiest people I've ever had the pleasure of talking to. Incredibly attractive (that chubby baby face was hiding such a handsome one!) He's open minded and has figured me out to a T like people I've lived with never have in a matter of days. I'll never tell him that though! Not getting my hopes up just yet, but it looks promising and I definitely want to see where it goes.
So, while there's still a romantic overcast to our conversations, we've resumed speaking platonicly for the most part. Nothing has ended, but it is simmering down because he wants me to find some one. The last week or so has been pretty cheery, since things are going well in his relationship at the moment and my going out with others has lifted his concern about how much attention I'm getting in my life.

Life is looking grand, even if it's miles from perfect.

Kellydancer
07-13-2011, 12:33 PM
Naida, not that I'm judging you but giving him oral to me is still cheating. If I found out my husband or boyfriend got oral for another woman he would be out the door. Please do yourself a favor and get someone else.

tempest666
07-13-2011, 02:12 PM
Naida, not that I'm judging you but giving him oral to me is still cheating. If I found out my husband or boyfriend got oral for another woman he would be out the door. Please do yourself a favor and get someone else.
:P (best Arkansas drawl) "It ain't immoral if it's only oral"

:rotfl:

Kellydancer
07-13-2011, 08:21 PM
:P (best Arkansas drawl) "It ain't immoral if it's only oral"

:rotfl:

And involves a cigar ;D

mediocrity
07-13-2011, 08:40 PM
He doesn't love her and he doesn't love you. He's being self indulgent.

Again, I know they aren't married but if my husband did what you guys are doing behind my back, I would come unhinged.

Both of you need to grow up.

Jessie_tinydancer
07-13-2011, 08:51 PM
^ I agree.... he obviously does love her and if he loved Naida he would be with her instead of both. I really dont think kids are an excuse for staying in an unhappy relationship. I personally would be devastated if I found out my parents endured years of hate and lies just to keep me happy... what a burden for a child (even an adult one) to carry. I do feel for Naida because he's playing her. Its hard when you love somebody to think straight and do whats right... I know Ive made that mistake before.

rickdugan
07-14-2011, 10:12 AM
I really dont think kids are an excuse for staying in an unhappy relationship. I personally would be devastated if I found out my parents endured years of hate and lies just to keep me happy... what a burden for a child (even an adult one) to carry.

To me this is far more than an "excuse" but rather a valid reason for making a relationship work regardless of the challenges. When we have kids, it's not supposed to be about us anymore - it is about the kids. Ever read tha stats on kids from broken homes vs. those that come from two parent households?

Now this is no shot at single mothers, many of whom are such because guys left or did other horrible things. But I will say that, when I was single, I would never date a single mother who left her husband unless he was doing something truly horrible. Never. I did date single moms, but in each instance the guy left her. I could never imagine dating a woman who broke up her kids' home for stupidly selfish reasons, like "we grew apart" or "I didn't love him anymore."

I am now a father to two beautiful children and I could not imagine breaking up their home. Too many parents are simply selfish, weak and/or stupid nowadays.

Naida, this is no shot at you either. In fact, IMHO this is 80% his fault and 20% yours, but it would be tragic if he left the children that now think of him as their father. And I agree with others that say he is selfish and playing you.

Jessie_tinydancer
07-14-2011, 04:27 PM
Two people who despise each other and argue daily is still a broken home. I totally agree with you that kids deserve two loving parents, but when those two people hate each other and everyday that child is in a war zone because of it... That's not a family anyway. The solution is don't have kids with just anyone. Choose your partner wisely as it is a lifelong commitment... It doesn't always wrk out that way. This guy probably never loved the mother of his kids.

tempest666
07-14-2011, 09:39 PM
Two people who despise each other and argue daily is still a broken home. I totally agree with you that kids deserve two loving parents, but when those two people hate each other and everyday that child is in a war zone because of it... That's not a family anyway. The solution is don't have kids with just anyone. Choose your partner wisely as it is a lifelong commitment... It doesn't always wrk out that way. This guy probably never loved the mother of his kids.


I will second this. My parents used to argue and beat the shit out of each other for 15 years. My mom finally left him after 15 years of abuse. They never should have stayed together this long.

rickdugan
07-15-2011, 06:14 AM
Two people who despise each other and argue daily is still a broken home. I totally agree with you that kids deserve two loving parents, but when those two people hate each other and everyday that child is in a war zone because of it... That's not a family anyway.

IMHO that's a cop out. Part of the parents' job is to limit their kids' exposure to their own personal drama. Two people who subject their kids to a warzone rather than exercise some self control are the tri-fecta: selfish (to the point of self indulgent), weak and stupid.

Nobody promised that it would be easy. Raising kids involves putting their needs above one's own.

Jessie_tinydancer
07-15-2011, 04:19 PM
^ in this instance you obviously have more strength than the guy in the OP... I just don't think he'll suddenly wake up and decide he's going to be a committed husband and father. This kid is always going to suffer. Probably no matter what the situation because neither of his parents are stable people. I'm not desputing your values Rick... I applaude them, unfortunately it's not so easy for most parents. You are lucky you don't find being faithful to your wife and family a chore. At least 70% of the men I meet working in the SC do. :-(

mediocrity
07-15-2011, 05:05 PM
IMHO that's a cop out. Part of the parents' job is to limit their kids' exposure to their own personal drama. Two people who subject their kids to a warzone rather than exercise some self control are the tri-fecta: selfish (to the point of self indulgent), weak and stupid.

Nobody promised that it would be easy. Raising kids involves putting their needs above one's own.

I'm going to play devil's advocate and agree with Rick here. My parents HATED each other, and still do. I don't mean garden variety hatred, I mean bury you in the backyard under the tomato plants hate. My dad stayed with my mother til we were grown because a) if he left, she would have taken us from him and b) he believed we should have two parents.

That being said I NEVER saw them argue or anything. Were they affectionate? No. But they acted like room mates who got along very well. We never suspected anything was amiss. Parents CAN limit their personal drama, and/or do it in private so the kids aren't exposed to it. All it takes is maturity. (Not that my asshole mother had that in any other aspect, but you get what I'm saying.)

rickdugan
07-15-2011, 05:50 PM
^ in this instance you obviously have more strength than the guy in the OP... I just don't think he'll suddenly wake up and decide he's going to be a committed husband and father. This kid is always going to suffer. Probably no matter what the situation because neither of his parents are stable people. I'm not desputing your values Rick... I applaude them, unfortunately it's not so easy for most parents. You are lucky you don't find being faithful to your wife and family a chore. At least 70% of the men I meet working in the SC do. :-(

Jessica, as many around here know, I am no saint by a stretch. In fact, my issues with this have nothing to do with him getting a little piece on the side. I am solely taking exception to the fact that he seems to be getting a little wrapped up in Naida and that he is sharing his, and his SOs, personal problems with her. All of this leads me to believe that he is thinking about ditching his family.

IsobelWren
07-16-2011, 06:20 PM
I dunno. I started reading replies to this post and then I stopped b/c there were a lot of them. LOL.

Anyway. I've been the cheater before. I maintained a cheating relationship for a really long time because I felt I was poly and because I *really* *really* loved the guy I was cheating with, just as much as I loved the man I was originally seeing. So I can see how feelings for someone can get you caught up in one thing or another and how it doesn't have to be as cut and dry as, "You're cheating or enabling cheating. Stop it." because sometimes you just don't feel you can.

I think that this situation is only asking for heartbreak though. I mean, he has kids. Kids change the game. I know you have no reason to care about or respect his girlfriend and may even feel some contempt for her but what about his kids? Yes, I hate "think of the children" excuses as much at the next person. Just, if you're going to do this thing with him you must make sure to be ultra discrete and never get caught because the mom is probably going to rip his shit apart if she finds out and then it will be all over and who needs that?

Otherwise I think you've got a good head on your shoulders. You're not expecting he'll leave her, you don't want all his time, you don't expect him to only sleep with you and her.

kthnx
07-24-2011, 05:42 PM
You're asking people to give you support for maintaining a long distance affair with a man who is in a relationship which produced two children, one while he was involved with you. You're not likely to get much sympathy, I'm afraid.

You say you know it is doomed and you are not going to put your life on hold, but based on the story above you are still indulging in the fantasy. Some call it emotional masturbation. You are romanticizing how you met and the short time you were together. You may have read it back to yourself and it reinforced your feelings towards him. Talking about the relationship further will only keep you emotionally involved longer than neccessary when the point is to get past it. Time to close that chapter and focus on the next.

You have put this guy on a pedestal. Try looking at it from his primary girlfriend's perspective. What if you were bearing kids for a man who lies and is unfaithful to you? He kind of loses his luster at that point.

The best thing to do is to lose contact with the guy and get over it just like any other relationship that you know has no chance of working. The longer you stay in contact the more you will suffer from heartache.

However, if you truly want support for what you are doing, there is a forum called The Other Woman, where mistresses come together to commiserate.


word.

Naida
07-28-2011, 05:54 AM
Just want to say thanks who stuck it out so long with this thread. A few updates-

R (the guy with an SO) and I are still talking on a regular basis. Conversations are highly flirtatious, but not romantic anymore. I really do love him, and I still believe that he has the same feelings for me, but it's more or less been non-verbally agreed that we're not pursuing each other in any way anymore. Thinking about visiting him one more time in the coming weeks. I would be bringing friends if I can make it, so that forces things to be platonic. Other than that, not making any plans to visit his city any time soon. We had a long talk about his relationship last night, in which he pretty much laid out that it's going downhill in a way that I didn't even realize before and he's only really sticking it out at this point for the kids. Whether or not he'll see other women on the side now that I'm stepping away from the plate, I don't know. As a friend first and foremost, I'm sure he'll tell me if some one else catches his eye but I have this gut feeling that says he won't be fooling around with anyone else in the near future.
Things with Z (the guy I've been seeing) are really heating up. We do almost everything together now. We have plans for our first "official" date tonight. I kinda like how old fashioned he is when it comes to relationships. An absolute gentleman, he goes out of his way to make sure that I'm happy and taken care of. He treats me like a goddess and I can tell that I'm the only one he has eyes for. As much as I wasn't looking for the direction things seem to be headed in, I can't help but want more. Wish me luck with a good, single guy! If things go well tonight, I don't think either of us will still be single long ;)

Naida
06-29-2017, 01:06 PM
I know this is a crazy necro-post; please don't shoot me! It's just that I've been gone from the forum for a long time, so I've been reading through some of my old threads while I wrap my mind around life as it currently is and try to get back to being the person I loved being. Seeing this one and having come more or less "full circle" with this guy to the point that I feel we'll only be moving forward as friends, I couldn't help the urge to tie up some loose ends of the story.

TL:DR version is that they broke up on their own, we never got together, life goes on.

R and his S.O, L, broke up entirely two years after this thread happened. Turns out, everyone thinking she was shitty was right. She finally got her divorce during one of the many times R and I stopped talking. As far as I can tell, it was because her ex wanted to finally make it legally done. She wanted to marry R after the divorce, but he has had a longstanding disenchantment with marriage (on top of his problems in the relationship anyway) and never went through with it. She only finally started working again when their rent and bills went up to the point that he literally could not cover them and put food on the table on his paycheck.
Their fighting finally got so bad that they started sleeping in separate rooms in order to stay civil in front of the children, giving the kids the excuse that "daddy needs his own room because he sleeps at a different time than we do." During that time, she neglected to tell him that sleeping in separate rooms was the end of their relationship and he went on believing that the sleeping arrangement was a temporary thing until their tempers cooled. He found out other wise when she started dating someone else. He moved out several months after that, still helping with the rent and kids until she moved in with her most recent beau (who is, according to R, a good guy that is more financially capable and has his stamp of approval to become the boys' stepfather.) There is no child support or formal custody agreement, at least not yet, but he speaks to the kids over the phone or Skype pretty much daily and gets them for a couple days every week or two. As far as I'm aware, life has improved dramatically for everyone in their family since the split, including the kids.

Even if the greatest upbringing is in a happy two parent home, it's been studied and in this case proven true, that (as was mentioned above) it's better for kids to have parents who are amicably separated than parents who are miserable together.

As for us, everything I said about our feelings in those posts six years ago still rings true. Shortly after their split, while she was out of town with the kids, I came to visit and we finally both said the actual words "I love you" and slept together for the first time. It didn't go anywhere then or during the following two years because we were both dating other people casually and both of us were nowhere near ready for a new commitment, never mind one where we only got to physically see each other every few months, but we did talk about the possibility and logistics several times. After an extended visit we had together in 2015, I brought up the topic very seriously. More than five years was finally too long to be happy with things just as they were when we were finally thoroughly single at the same time. I got the usual talk (which I had agreed with in the past) about how he just didn't see things working out the way we wanted. Out of the usual, though, was how hard I took it.

Believe it or not, contrary to what some people suggested in this thread six years ago, it really was easier to maintain an emotional relationship with someone I couldn't actually be with than to leave him alone entirely. Back then, I had accepted what little relationship we had for what it was and, though it hurt, I was happy just to have him in my life. Some of my most miserable moments were the months we wouldn't speak while he tried to focus his effort on his relationship with L. But once we were both single and I could see no barrier, my feelings changed and I really did hope for more.

After that last rejection, I started actually dating again for the first time in months. Not searching for a commitment, but leaving myself open to it if I found someone I truly enjoyed being with. When I met my most recent ex, D, R was in the loop about it. The twinge of jealousy he's always had about me dating was there, but he handled it with the same maturity and support we've always had for each other. D was also aware of my sort-of-relationship with R, but accepted that it was just part of the package in the beginning. Everyone's got baggage, right?

The most ironic part of the story came a couple of months later when D and I had been seeing each other long enough to decide we wanted a committed relationship with each other. It came after lots of talks about my being polyamorous and he firmly believed that I wouldn't pursue anything outside of our relationship without his express consent. During the call to R when I was going to give him the news, he had some of his own: over the same weekend D and I became official, he'd attended a friend's wedding. Despite his prior disenchantment with marriage, attending the wedding "made him realize it was a possibility he could be open to in the distant future, and he had rejected me so many times because he was fearful of fucking up yet another relationship, this time with someone he'd loved longer than anyone outside his own family." You really can't imagine how devastated I felt having to explain that, while he apparently came to this grand realization, I had chosen to finally open myself up to my first real relationship in about four years.

In the two more years since then, R has been there for me as just a friend (despite our feelings and myself now being the one trying to make a relationship work. Didn't I mention in this thread six years ago that I was always the one who was better at monogamy?) while D and I moved through our relationship and resulting engagement. He came to visit us, and us going to visit him, once every few months. They even became friends over the course of that time. I'm proud to say that the most intimate thing to happen between us during that period was the SINGLE instance where he got too drunk and kissed me, only to be gently let down with the reminder that I was planning my wedding and couldn't have an affair with a member of our bridal party, regardless of our history together. And, of course, I told D about it the following day, albeit it after R left to avoid any awkwardness. That whole weekend still amuses me. Not only did R not remember kissing me and apologize about it profusely when I mentioned it the next morning, but neither he nor D remembered kissing each other the night prior to that!

To wrap things up, D and I split a few months ago in relation to an entirely separate matter. R and I still only speak as friends, both because he's currently dating someone and I'm still just too destroyed by my broken engagement to even consider romance with another human being right now. Could something exist in the future? Maybe. I don't know. And honestly, I don't really care. My feelings are still exactly what they were back when I originally posted the OP of this thread. I've loved him all this time, through the ups and downs, the romanticized and the ugly, when we were free to express those feelings and when one or both of us tried (with varying of degrees of success) to stuff them down. I'm still just happy to have him in my life, in whatever form that takes.

Sorry again for the necro-post and the novel, but it feels hella good to finally get it all off my chest in one place and to put the lid back on the can that this thread opened.

Violethollywood
06-29-2017, 01:52 PM
Take it from someone who's been there before and was blindsighted . Move on.
I was involved with a man I had known for years and we reconnected this was years ago-- he told me he was divorcing his wife--he wasn't . It took me spending 400 of my own money before I realized that he was never going to leave her and I NEVER again made that same mistake again. It's foolish and stupid . Don't be stupid

rickdugan
06-30-2017, 10:46 AM
R is the piece of shit, not the ex. He had the chance to step up, but refused to do so. I strongly suspect that his "disenchantment with marriage" had a lot to do with wanting to keep the option to walk away whenever he wished. The mother of his children wanted to marry him and only started dating after he refused to do so for years. How does this make her the bad guy? Also, how does wanting to be home with her young children make her the bad guy? In a nutshell, she wanted a classic nuclear family, married parents and all, and he didn't, no doubt because it would jam up his game.

You can also see the same pattern now with you. He does just enough to keep you on the hook, but never steps up to the plate. He's a playa'. He obviously enjoys the romance and excitement, but not the commitment. The fact that he is perfectly happy with another man raising and supporting his kids says it all. This is not some great sign of enlightenment, but rather that he simply cares more about himself than anyone else. I feel more for these kids than anyone in this story because, spin it however you want, they are the ones who will carry the emotional scars and insecurities as they get older.

I know you like him Naida. But honestly, I would walk if I were you as this guy seems too self involved to be a source of support for anyone else.

Naida
06-30-2017, 02:38 PM
I'm sorry, Rick, but I feel like you're either misunderstanding and/or twisting parts of my update. To begin with, I never meant to say she was the PoS in their relationship. They both have their faults and, while I haven't said anything negative about him in this thread, I'm not in any way disillusioned to the ways in which he is an asshole and just as responsible for their problems. I just said that a lot of the shitty things people said and theorized about her turned out to be true.

If she really wanted to marry him, why did she stay married to someone else for three of the last four years they were together, plus the time they were together before he and I met? That just doesn't seem to me like she wanted it as badly as you make it sound. His own issues with marriage are not as dubious as you make it sound, either. He's one of the many people who has just never seen a positive outcome to marriage, but has seen lots of heartache and frustration. Hell, I have several reservations about marriage in common with him and my wedding was originally supposed to only be a spiritual ceremony. (D and I didn't decide to make our marriage a legal one until after we were engaged and had several long talks about whether a legal marriage would be beneficial enough within the next ten years to justify the convenience of having the date on the legal documentation match our anniversary.) Even if he didn't have problems with the idea of marriage, it was only even an option in their final year together that was so crazy and tumultuous that most people were advising them to breakup instead. And no, I was not one of those people. As far as I'm aware, I put more pressure on him to make it work than anyone else in his life.

Nor am I saying there's anything wrong with wanting the traditionalist family model you seem to think she wanted. As far as I'm concerned, women have the right to choose to be stay at home moms if they have a partner who is willing/able to make that happen. But that's really not what this situation was and I only found how true that was in hindsight. Since their split, I've been more open to hearing and talking about her with others that know her. It turns out that her parents gave her to boot before she had children because she refused to work while under their roof. Her unwillingness to support herself was also an apparent factor in her split from the biological father of their first child. During the time R and I met, while they were separated, her parents were only supporting her because she had a baby with her. A major source of stress in their relationship was her refusal to work (he was perfectly fine with supporting her while she was pregnant and the boys were babies) all the way up until it literally became an issue of "do you wanna go to work, or do you wanna pick which utility we're cutting off so the kids can eat?" I am not exaggerating or misusing the word literal.

Also, did you miss the part where she started dating other people without even bothering to mention "hey, we're over?" Because that's what happened. They agreed it would be better to sleep in separate rooms, but neither of them told the other that their relationship had ended. He didn't find out that she'd apparently made the silent decision until she brought a boyfriend home around their children.

And no one said that he was happy about another man taking his kids into his home. It makes him miserable. Besides the few months they were apart when we met, (he cried many nights on the phone with me about missing his son during that time; the whole reason he got back together with her is because the rose colored glasses of remembering good times with her came back on while spending time with his kid) he hasn't spent more than a couple of days apart from his children. Even now, four years after the breakup, he still often cries when I ask how the kids are doing. The brightest highlight of his week is when he gets to see and hang out with them. When I say the current boyfriend (I haven't bothered asking how her relationship has developed and it just hasn't come up in conversation between us since they moved in together) has R's "stamp of approval," that means he thinks the guy is a positive influence in his sons' lives. It always makes the situation better when parents and step-parents like each other, even if they're not happy about the step-parent having primary custody of their children.

And those "scars" you're talking about the kids having? They're healing. As I mentioned above, everyone is doing better since they split and that's


... including the kids.

Having a stable home where their stepfather doesn't struggle to pay the bills, mom and stepdad don't fight the same way mom and dad did, they get to see their dad happy and smiling when they visit compared to how miserable he was when they all lived together. They're apparently thriving in the new arrangement. If you want to talk about what's "best" for kids, you can't talk shit about the new dynamic.

As for anything to do with your opinion of him directly, not just his family, well... I don't have a whole lot to say. I could continue talking about what a good guy he is, but you've apparently made up your mind that he's not. I could try to prove that I know what an asshole he can be (as I said above and in my last post, we've had some damned ugly moments between us and I know most of his faults) in an attempt to show you that I'm not caught up in some rosy eyed fantasy about him, but that would just give you more ammunition to attack him with while not getting me anywhere since you also seem convinced about my point of view. But the idea that I "should walk?" I've already been clear that I'm not pursuing a relationship with him, or anyone else since my engagement ended, any time in the foreseeable future.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
06-30-2017, 02:57 PM
R is the piece of shit, not the ex. He had the chance to step up, but refused to do so. I strongly suspect that his "disenchantment with marriage" had a lot to do with wanting to keep the option to walk away whenever he wished. The mother of his children wanted to marry him and only started dating after he refused to do so for years. How does this make her the bad guy? Also, how does wanting to be home with her young children make her the bad guy? In a nutshell, she wanted a classic nuclear family, married parents and all, and he didn't, no doubt because it would jam up his game.

You can also see the same pattern now with you. He does just enough to keep you on the hook, but never steps up to the plate. He's a playa'. He obviously enjoys the romance and excitement, but not the commitment. The fact that he is perfectly happy with another man raising and supporting his kids says it all. This is not some great sign of enlightenment, but rather that he simply cares more about himself than anyone else. I feel more for these kids than anyone in this story because, spin it however you want, they are the ones who will carry the emotional scars and insecurities as they get older.

I know you like him Naida. But honestly, I would walk if I were you as this guy seems too self involved to be a source of support for anyone else.

Hmm, You might not be that bad after all?

Aurora_Sunset
06-30-2017, 03:11 PM
Thanks for the update, Naida. I completely forgot about this thread, but now that I remember it, I'm always glad to get a real-life update about very complicated and tense situations.

Looking back, I also have to apologize for being kinda bitchy holier-than-thou about a lot of what I said lol! Holy shit, I was obnoxious. That's kinda funny to see that contrast. I still half agree with some things I said, but could have said way less snottily, but that's neither here nor there. You've been working out your own shit, regardless of what we think/thought, and I'm glad to have an update. I hope things continue to work out for everyone involved.

Naida
06-30-2017, 07:16 PM
Thanks for the response, Aurora. Without scanning back again to check, I don't remember you saying anything that came across as an attack, no matter how bluntly you may have said it. Being just as thick skinned (and hard headedly stubborn, as my response to Rick ought to show) then and now, harsh perspectives and advice don't bother me. The only ones that bothered me then or now are the ones that directly attack his character rather than his actions or the ones that assumed I was trying to steal another woman's man when I did my best to be clear that I was not. Even now, I couldn't tell you if it was out of guilt or if I just cared about his happiness enough that I pressured him so hard to make things work with her when he would talk to me about his relationship. I dunno. Maybe I'm just weird. I place a very high standard on maintaining a relationship, but infidelity isn't something I make a super huge thing out of. It's more like the other things couples fight about, like money or the kids, to me.

That said, this is only one of two times I've ever knowingly been involved with someone who was in a relationship and the only time seriously so. The other of the two was more than justified, in my opinion, because the affair he had with me helped him regain the confidence he needed to leave an abusive relationship. (That's a story for a whole other time.) Any other time it's happened, it's been the result of them lying to me about their relationship status or just not mentioning it. It's hella annoying to have to explain to an irate woman that I only slept with her husband because he never MENTIONED being married while his ring-less hand paid my bar tab.

All that aside, these Life Support threads that just disappear worry me some times. Some of these girls have very serious problems that some times are a risk to their physical wellbeing. Seeing updates always makes me feel better too.