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Kellydancer
07-06-2011, 10:35 AM
Carmen_b - you are definately right I have to get out there more and maybe start trying the coffee shops and bars getting done up a bit more.

Kellydancer - I get the same stuff online, maybe because I'm 34. I get single dads and players. I talked to some of my friends and they said to try e-harmony and that worked for a lot of them. I've avoided that website but maybe I should give it a go.

I did really liked this guy and I was getting obessive in my head with him. I know it will pass but it feels like it won't. I've been playing it out in my head and over analyzing everything... stupid but I can't think of anything else but him. A guy I met online and talked to for a few months, went on a great date, exchanged messages with after and planed another date, and then he doesnt call. I've just never gone throught it like that before! I thought maybe it was a misunderstanding and I was going to call him back, but people told my if HE likes you (even if there had been a misunderstanding or something funny) he will call you to clarify or sort it out. So I just left it and hopefully I did the right thing.

Are you religious? I ask because many churches have singles groups. I found several for Catholics, including one for professionals in their 30's and up. I'm kind of leaning towards this because the guys I've seen at these groups tend to be more serious. I'm also trying the Catholic sites because most of these guys are seeking wives.

Kellydancer
07-06-2011, 10:40 AM
I have met my SO on an adult website... looooooooooong ago.but he was not there to find someone and I was not there to find someone either... it just happened... we spoke online for 2 years before we actually met..
we are happily married, BUT I would advice everyone to NOT try to find someone on a dating website..
Meeting someone on a dating website and lucky making this a long term, serious relationship, is like having an arranged marriage..the fact that it was NOT YOU who made things happen will always be in the back of your mind...

Lets pretend you have a daughter,,. and she wanna date but she's being a bit unsuccessful with it.... would u advice her to go on dating websites? what would u advice her to do?

I get where you are going with this but the problem is if you are single at a later age it is harder to find people. I ask people to see me up but none of them know a guy I'd like. They either know guys with multiple baby mamas/multiple divorces, loser slobs who are generally unemployed (and not because of the economy), or guys I wouldn't fit with. I would prefer to meet someone on my own but it's hard.

The problem I find with online date is it's an all or nothing situation. Meaning unlike other relationships where the attraction can build, with online it has to be there immediately or nothing.

lemiwinks31
07-06-2011, 10:52 AM
I get where you are going with this but the problem is if you are single at a later age it is harder to find people. I ask people to see me up but none of them know a guy I'd like. They either know guys with multiple baby mamas/multiple divorces, loser slobs who are generally unemployed (and not because of the economy), or guys I wouldn't fit with. I would prefer to meet someone on my own but it's hard.

The problem I find with online date is it's an all or nothing situation. Meaning unlike other relationships where the attraction can build, with online it has to be there immediately or nothing.


Do these dating sites have message boards for all the members? It seems like the dating sites do it backwards......

live....you talk to someone, and see if you like them, see if you have anything in common, see if you are attracted to them......THEN you ask date them......

on the sites, it seems to me like you pick someone to date based on the superficial of what they do, what the pic that they choose looks like......then on the dates....you find out whether you want to date them or not....

On this board, you know whose views and opinions you generally are in sync with...If you had that on a dating website, it seems you would have more success picking someone who thinks like you rather than picking out the guy smiling wearing a tie while hugging his dog, in front of his benz, who SAYS he has a great sense of humor

Fridays
07-06-2011, 11:03 AM
the guy smiling wearing a tie while hugging his dog, in front of his benz, who SAYS he has a great sense of humor
exactly.... and that is so important...
a glimpse of someone;s smile.. hearing them laugh for the first time( first for real, not first after u read his profile lol )... all these things are totally wiped out of the picture with online dating.....
Kelly- ur taking age... how old are u?
If ur not older then 40 ( not that 40 is old!).. u should have no problems...

Kellydancer
07-06-2011, 11:11 AM
Do these dating sites have message boards for all the members? It seems like the dating sites do it backwards......

live....you talk to someone, and see if you like them, see if you have anything in common, see if you are attracted to them......THEN you ask date them......

on the sites, it seems to me like you pick someone to date based on the superficial of what they do, what the pic that they choose looks like......then on the dates....you find out whether you want to date them or not....

On this board, you know whose views and opinions you generally are in sync with...If you had that on a dating website, it seems you would have more success picking someone who thinks like you rather than picking out the guy smiling wearing a tie while hugging his dog, in front of his benz, who SAYS he has a great sense of humor

Yes the dating sites all have message boards. I know I want to become more active on the Catholic one (this one you have to pay) and really read that one because even though I am somewhat devout I disagree with the church on a few issues.


exactly.... and that is so important...
a glimpse of someone;s smile.. hearing them laugh for the first time( first for real, not first after u read his profile lol )... all these things are totally wiped out of the picture with online dating.....
Kelly- ur taking age... how old are u?
If ur not older then 40 ( not that 40 is old!).. u should have no problems...

I am 40. No, it's not old, but I'm finding that there seem to be certain types of guys at my age. There's the guys with kids, which I will not even consider, there's the basement dweller, which I might, and then there are the former workaholics who put time into work with little social groups. Of the three the latter one is more like me than the other two. I know there are exceptions and thankfully I live close to Chicago and there are many single men there. When I do a search on Match of never married childless men 35-45 within 40 miles (Chicago is 40 miles away)I get several hundred. Even when I narrow it down I still get a few hundred. Granted many of the guys are lying about being married or having kids but finding one guy on a site should be do able. I'm not doing Match now but the dating sites I go too I see the same thing. I'm finding too that there are many men who are marrying later and many of them aren't even online.

Aurora_Sunset
07-06-2011, 12:02 PM
Do these dating sites have message boards for all the members? It seems like the dating sites do it backwards......

live....you talk to someone, and see if you like them, see if you have anything in common, see if you are attracted to them......THEN you ask date them......

on the sites, it seems to me like you pick someone to date based on the superficial of what they do, what the pic that they choose looks like......then on the dates....you find out whether you want to date them or not....

On this board, you know whose views and opinions you generally are in sync with...If you had that on a dating website, it seems you would have more success picking someone who thinks like you rather than picking out the guy smiling wearing a tie while hugging his dog, in front of his benz, who SAYS he has a great sense of humor

I mean, how many people really know much more about a person's views and opinions when bumping into each other IRL rather than chatting online a little bit? If some guy comes up to you in the coffee shop because he thinks you're cute and you're reading one of his favorite books, you chat for 10 minutes and then exchange numbers to go on a real date, is that really any less superficial than if you saw someone on a dating site, liked the way they looked, liked their general profile and thought they seemed nice in a few emails? Either way, you judge people initially on rather superficial things, chat a little, and then have to go out on a few real dates to determine if they're really the right match for you. Online dating just makes it slightly easier to find all your potential dates in one place.

All those little body language things will come into play when you meet. But at least you'll have more potential dates and, even if they don't work out, you'll be socializing and brushing up on your dating skills much more than if you just waited to see if you could happen to run into someone interesting that day.

Some people really want that "fairy tale" meeting, but overall, it comes down to do you want to find someone wonderful to be with? What's more important - the way you met or how happy you end up being together?

shift_6x
07-06-2011, 01:01 PM
Katja - Forget about meeting a guy for now (trust me on this).

Find your passion - something you love to do, that gives your life meaning, makes you excited, happy and fulfilled, etc. Make sure it is something that draws you to socialize with other people - men and women. It must be something that gives you confidence, pride and self-esteem; something you can shine at and that makes you grow spiritually. It could be a sport, recreational activity, art, culture, charity, etc... Find a social network that is an outlet for this passion.

This will lead you to self-fulfillment and to meet a lot of new and interesting people. When your potential soul-mate meets you, he will meet a woman who is strong and independent, self-fulfilled, with objectives, and with "life" and a lot of passion. This is what men want in a partner. Plus the fact that if he shares your passion - this takes the attraction beyond the superficial physical level to a deeper intellectual/emotional level.

If only it were that easy..

Kellydancer
07-06-2011, 01:05 PM
I mean, how many people really know much more about a person's views and opinions when bumping into each other IRL rather than chatting online a little bit? If some guy comes up to you in the coffee shop because he thinks you're cute and you're reading one of his favorite books, you chat for 10 minutes and then exchange numbers to go on a real date, is that really any less superficial than if you saw someone on a dating site, liked the way they looked, liked their general profile and thought they seemed nice in a few emails? Either way, you judge people initially on rather superficial things, chat a little, and then have to go out on a few real dates to determine if they're really the right match for you. Online dating just makes it slightly easier to find all your potential dates in one place.

All those little body language things will come into play when you meet. But at least you'll have more potential dates and, even if they don't work out, you'll be socializing and brushing up on your dating skills much more than if you just waited to see if you could happen to run into someone interesting that day.

Some people really want that "fairy tale" meeting, but overall, it comes down to do you want to find someone wonderful to be with? What's more important - the way you met or how happy you end up being together?

Not just that but with online you can screen out most of the unsuitable people. I'm able to delete guys with kids, guys with poor grammar (this drives me nuts)and guys who just want sex. Of course there is a possibility I'll run into a guy like this even after screening but less likely. With meeting guys offline there is not this screen. I couldn't begin to mention all the guys that friends matched me up that only wanted sex.

lemiwinks31
07-06-2011, 02:11 PM
I mean, how many people really know much more about a person's views and opinions when bumping into each other IRL rather than chatting online a little bit? If some guy comes up to you in the coffee shop because he thinks you're cute and you're reading one of his favorite books, you chat for 10 minutes and then exchange numbers to go on a real date, is that really any less superficial than if you saw someone on a dating site, liked the way they looked, liked their general profile and thought they seemed nice in a few emails? Either way, you judge people initially on rather superficial things, chat a little, and then have to go out on a few real dates to determine if they're really the right match for you. Online dating just makes it slightly easier to find all your potential dates in one place.

All those little body language things will come into play when you meet. But at least you'll have more potential dates and, even if they don't work out, you'll be socializing and brushing up on your dating skills much more than if you just waited to see if you could happen to run into someone interesting that day.

Some people really want that "fairy tale" meeting, but overall, it comes down to do you want to find someone wonderful to be with? What's more important - the way you met or how happy you end up being together?


Yeah...maybe, I am not attacking online dating, because i have no clue about it, so i am kind of just asking. I know many people meet online and have successful relationships...

I am just having trouble imagining the whole process being enjoyable if I were doing it. I make relatively quick impressions on people i meet and WHAT they say is a big part of it, but also HOW they say it, body language, are they quick witted, are they fun etc.....

It seems to me that online communication is much more sterile. You basically only get the 'WHAT they are saying' part. Any intimacy would seem kind of forced and premature. Whereas, there would already be some kind of connection or chemistry from your 1st in person meeting, and its already there when you go out on a date.

For example...if i was single, based on your posts, etc....I THINK i would like you, but if we had a conversation in person, I would KNOW if i liked you or not.

lemiwinks31
07-06-2011, 02:22 PM
I couldn't begin to mention all the guys that friends matched me up that only wanted sex.


Maybe your friends just think you are dirty whore:)

Seriously.....i think some friends dont think past..."hey, kelly is single and looking for a guy, and this guy is single, so.........why not"

I got a single buddy....and the wife of another of our friends will try to set him up with every single girl she comes across, i dont know why....but it doesnt seem to matter whether she thinks it will work or not.

Kellydancer
07-06-2011, 02:43 PM
Maybe your friends just think you are dirty whore:)

Seriously.....i think some friends dont think past..."hey, kelly is single and looking for a guy, and this guy is single, so.........why not"

I got a single buddy....and the wife of another of our friends will try to set him up with every single girl she comes across, i dont know why....but it doesnt seem to matter whether she thinks it will work or not.

Not just that but these particular friends knew I was a stripper so of course I was easy (I'm being sarcastic). I've had friends try to match me up with dads knowing I don't date them then wonder why I was livid going out with these guys. Others have matched me up with slobs or guys who were really chauvinists. Yeah those were embarassments.

lemiwinks31
07-06-2011, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack0177057 http://forum.stripperweb.com/images/themes/sw4/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.stripperweb.com/showthread.php?p=2156172#post2156172)
Katja - Forget about meeting a guy for now (trust me on this).

Find your passion - something you love to do, that gives your life meaning, makes you excited, happy and fulfilled, etc. Make sure it is something that draws you to socialize with other people - men and women. It must be something that gives you confidence, pride and self-esteem; something you can shine at and that makes you grow spiritually. It could be a sport, recreational activity, art, culture, charity, etc... Find a social network that is an outlet for this passion.

This will lead you to self-fulfillment and to meet a lot of new and interesting people. When your potential soul-mate meets you, he will meet a woman who is strong and independent, self-fulfilled, with objectives, and with "life" and a lot of passion. This is what men want in a partner. Plus the fact that if he shares your passion - this takes the attraction beyond the superficial physical level to a deeper intellectual/emotional level.






If only it were that easy..

Are you telling me that you dont think the:....."whatever personal issues and problems you have....dont have them anymore" philosophy will work?

jack0177057
07-06-2011, 07:19 PM
^ Its not about getting rid of personal issues and problems, its about getting a "life", so you stop obsessive about finding an SO. When you finally meet a good potential SO, you stand a better chance of (i) being interesting and attractive to that person, and (ii) not scaring them away with your desperation.

Its about this:

Female A: She wants a guy desparately and is obsessing over it. She goes places with the sole objective of meeting potential BF or husband. She has no other goal or passion in her life, except finding a man. You can sense her desperation a mile away. She raises these flags: (1) if you date her, you will have to deal with her insecurity, jealousy, possessivenes, clinginess, pressure for commitment, drama, etc., and (2) she will expect way too much from a relationship - she feels empty and alone, and she expects a man to fill her void and provide her a fairy-tale "happy ever after" life. When she finds a poor bastard to be her BF, he is certain to disappoint her. She will blame him for not living up to her expectations and making her life boring and miserable.

Female B: She also wants a BF/husband very much, but she has a passion that keeps her busy and challenged, so she isn't obsessing over it. For example, she loves to travel to different countries and soak up the culture, learn new languages, etc. She goes on an exotic trip to the Andes Mountains in Ecuador and is marveling at all the sights (and not even thinking about guys at that moment), when she meets a young guy that is part of the tour group. He's a freelancer writer writing about exotic places to visit. He also has a passion for travel. They start talking about the places they've been to and their favorite sights. They compare notes and recommend places to each other. They share funny stories of embarassing faux pas in foreign lands. She comes across as independent, intelligent, full of adventure, curiosity, passion and energy. They are instantly bonded together.

I have met many women that fall into both of these categories. I've always been frightened away by women in the Female A category, even the very beautiful ones. I've only "fallen in love" with women in the Female B category.

Aurora_Sunset
07-06-2011, 08:09 PM
^ I agree with this. Like I said earlier, the only real relationships I developed happened when I said "screw dating" and just started to genuinely enjoy my life. That doesn't mean that in the back of my head I didn't actually want someone special, or that I purposely ignored guys that I actually kinda liked for "the sake of not dating." I think that if you want someone in your life, there's nothing wrong with that or with pursuing it. But it shouldn't be your #1 priority in life. That just makes you dull and desperate - and depressed because if it's the only thing you have going on in your life, and it doesn't work out, you have nothing else to fulfill yourself with. I see nothing wrong with attempting any of these venues for meeting men, but any place she goes and spends time at should be a place she would normally go and enjoy herself. And in the meantime, just enjoy herself and pursue other hobbies so if the man-search takes a little longer, she'll at least still be enjoying life and making herself a more interesting catch, rather than being sad and lonely with nothing else to do.

Kellydancer
07-06-2011, 10:58 PM
Jack, I get where you are going with that. I am looking for a boyfriend or husband myself but think I fall more into category B. While I am somewhat desperate I refuse to settle and hate clingy people.

kthnx
07-07-2011, 12:17 AM
It's good to have hobbies and interests but u still gotta place urself in situations where you'll be prone to meet guys. For example if Miss World Traveler hangs around an all female camp with no dudes in sight, law of numbers means she won't meet ANYONE, no matter how interesting she might be. Similar to a stripper who's a great hustler not bein able to earn a dime if NO customers walk thru the door all shift.

I can relate to friends tryin to hook u up with duds. I actually wrote a thred bout this a yr or so ago and kellydancer commented on it and related to it. It sux. Admittedly I used to be one of those people yrs ago to a mild extent, the type who felt so bad for my "dud"'guy friend that I tried to introduce him to any girl friend possible, even ones clearly outta his league (which were most...not tryin to be mean, this friend was nice and all, but he was mildly mentally handicapped and short & scrawny with big glasses and hearing aids, had a geeky awkward demeanor and very whiny, and was a manager at the store he worked at but wasn't going anywhere beyond that, due to his mental handicap restrictions). at the time I didn't want to analyze his flAws (the way I just did here lol) becuz I thought that'd render me a bad friend to judge him. But when I simply introduced him to my girl friend just so he'd feel the satisfaction of meeting and hanging out with a girl (amongst me and others), my girl friend later fumed to a mutual guy friend how insulted she felt bout me thinking she was anywhere near my friend's league, even just for chilling with. Then I looked around and realized that when the tables were flipped and I asked my guy friends to hook me up with there hot guy friends, they often ignored me and/or tried to talk me out of liking the guy(s)...at that point I realized it was becuz my guy friends KNEW I wasn't there friends type and/or there friends had specifically told them they weren't into me. So at that point I determined that if dudes don't drop standards for ME, then why do I feel the need to drop standards for the girl friends I'm tryin to hook up?? Then again most guys tend to be more shallow and strait forward than most girls...most girls feel bad eliminating there "poor lonely" guy friend from dating there girl friends, whereas dudes tend to be less sensitive and emotional bout such things.

I also noticed that as I got pickier over the yrs, the guys I got did NOT in fact decrease. If anything more guys found me interesting, being "harder to get" and having standards, plus the quality of guys went up. Ironic. When I was in a somewhat drowt (same time period as when I tried to help out aforementioned guy friend) and was getting rejected by my other guy friend's friends, my standards were LOWER and I also got less. I think both factors affected each other...it wasn't just my standards bein lower as result of having less options, it was also the CAUSE be us let's face it, people wanna feel special like there a "hot commodity". They won't feel like a hot commodity bein with the girl who'd go for anyone.

But yea back to the dud thing, it sux. A girl friend actually wanted to hook me up with an obese guy who was in his 30s, still rented, and worked as a $10/hr security personnel with no post high school education. I was insulted. His only "merit" was he liked kids and supposedly wanted a girl who wanted kids with him and/or had kids. (like thats reason enough) But I'm a bit skeptical of that becuz at his age, most girls who are left already have kids and/or are getting mighty broody and desperate for them...so it increases his "market" of girls by claiming to want kids (his own or otherwise).

I agree that meeting in person is best, altho I'm not nearly as opposed to meeting via Internet as I used to be. I used to be against it, then when myspace and facebook came about I happened to meet guys from that I ended up hooking up with which I guess isnt far off lol (often I wasnt actively trying tho). But hell I met 1 of my longest relationships in a STRIP CLUB of all places lol when I was a cocktail waitress. And he was a decent conservative guy too believe it or not (he wasnt a club regular or anything "pl" tho). Not saying it's best to scope future husband at work at a club, but point is be open to possibility it can happen anywhere including when ur not looking (but "not looking" doesn't mean be anti-looking!!). One thing that helped me meet this good catch in the club after a moderate drowt, however, was prolly getting laid by an ex/fwb the weekend before, which relaxed me and boosted my confidence lol.

Hmm what else...I still think the getting laid thing will help becuz it will give "bedroom practise" which will decrease insecurities in that dept. and it'll make a girl look less desperate becuz she mite not have a bf or a relationship but atleast 1 craving in the "men" dept will be fulfilled.

Fridays
07-07-2011, 07:31 AM
She comes across as independent, intelligent, full of adventure, curiosity, passion and energy. They are instantly bonded together.

I have met many women that fall into both of these categories. I've always been frightened away by women in the Female A category, even the very beautiful ones. I've only "fallen in love" with women in the Female B category.

ok Jack, lol. this is funny stuff...
you are exactly like the Categ A ladies... your a Categ A guy undercover.....thats why your're going for Categ B ladies...
the bold line.. thats your problem LOL...

u cant be "frightened" by no body. thats the rule.
unless their a serial killer, but thats different.. lol

U are telling the ladies to keep their head up and be " independent, intelligent, full of adventure, curiosity, passion and energy." That is being perfect...
its when you understand no one is perfect that you start to see people for what they really are........

and Kellydancer...
Why not going out with dads?
i'd love a daddy if I was single :D

by any chance are u near the NY area?
i have a good guy for you. He is a single dad but not living with his kids... kids live with their momma.

Aurora_Sunset
07-07-2011, 09:21 AM
U are telling the ladies to keep their head up and be " independent, intelligent, full of adventure, curiosity, passion and energy." That is being perfect...
its when you understand no one is perfect that you start to see people for what they really are........


I hardly think this is the definition of "perfection." I wouldn't want to date a dependent, stupid, lazy, ignorant dud who never wanted to go anywhere or try anything new... I really don't think it's that difficult to make yourself independent, mildly intelligent, and display passionate qualities about life. I struggle with the "energy" thing sometimes but so does my bf, so it works - then again that doesn't mean we never get out of bed to do anything new and exciting. Maybe some people really hate traveling and lack that "adventure" aspect so they would be better off finding someone else who likes to sit at home and be safe - maybe their definition of adventure is trying a new restaurant and they find that really exciting - if they agree on that definition, good for them. But I think most people would prefer to date someone who exhibits all these qualities to an extent. They're pretty general qualities - not things like "bake the perfect cherry pie" - and they're qualities that most people who focus on their own life tend to display.

I think a lot of people are attacking Jack for giving the very sound advice of "make yourself happy first without devoting your life to finding a guy." Because no one likes someone who has nothing else going on in their life but a man-hunt. It makes them desperate and clingy - all-around not attractive qualities. And once she starts focusing on just enjoying the world around her by herself, not only will she not need a man as badly but when she does happen upon one, she'll be a more well-rounded and interesting person and not give off an air of desperation, making it more likely to work out with a good guy. I don't think he's telling her to "improve" or be "perfect" but there's nothing wrong with the idea of filling your life with interesting hobbies so you don't come off desperate for company on the dating scene.

I hate to admit it to myself but I know that half the reason for my last breakup (the other half being he was an immature and insensitive douchebag who never listened) was that I really didn't have my own life when we were dating. I had just moved to a new state to start college - I had no friends down here and all my previous hobbies from high school were done with. I literally did nothing but school, watch tv, and hang out with him. He hated it. I was not an interesting person at all back then and he didn't like the fact that he was my only friend in the area. It caused a lot of fights and a lot of hurtful words that really made me feel bad about myself. 3 years later, that's never an issue in my newest relationship because I've developed so much as a person in my 3 years being single. I'm actually rather grateful for those years to focus on everything I wanted without a guy to distract me because I've really changed, and I like the way I've changed. It took awhile for me to find someone new (then again, I wasn't trying very hard to look) but when I did, I was a vastly more interesting person than I used to be and that's what attracted him to me.

I think it's very good advice to focus on yourself and do what you wanna do while you're waiting for the man-thing to work out. There's nothing wrong with wanting a man, but divide your attention up 60/40 or even 70/30. What's more important to focus on - yourself or some bf that doesn't even exist yet?

Kellydancer
07-07-2011, 01:53 PM
and Kellydancer...
Why not going out with dads?
i'd love a daddy if I was single :D

by any chance are u near the NY area?
i have a good guy for you. He is a single dad but not living with his kids... kids live with their momma.

Dads cause way too much drama for me. Between financial (he is often broke) and him spending time with his kids, no way in hell. Not to mention I am Catholic and will not marry anyone who's divorced and a guy who never married the mom would not have my morals. Plus, I want any kids I have to be his only kids.

Nope I'm in Illinois but no I'd definitely never go out with a guy with any kids. It's a bad idea for any childless woman to date dads because it will cause grief.

Fridays
07-08-2011, 05:33 AM
I wasn't attacking Jack :)
I was pointing out that he goes for the opposite of what he's like.
After all they say "opposites attract" :)

lemiwinks31
07-08-2011, 10:46 AM
Nope I'm in Illinois but no I'd definitely never go out with a guy with any kids. It's a bad idea for any childless woman to date dads because it will cause grief.

for you maybe.....

but its been a very GOOD idea for some women i know.

Every situation is unique.

Aurora_Sunset
07-08-2011, 12:42 PM
Kelly, I would not want to date a dad either. I have a friend who always claims she doesn't want to date dads too - but every single guy she's dated in the past 2 years has been a dad. She hates it but she stays with them regardless and every single one has ended in disaster. Not necessarily because they have kids, but because these single guys who have children usually don't have their shit together - which is one of the big reasons why they have kids with someone they're not with or that relationship didn't work out. I'm not saying every dad is like that, but I definitely see where your thought process is. And I think the bigger problem is that she's settling for something she always says she doesn't want - if you know you don't want it, trying to force is just going to make things worse.

I think the success of a relationship with a dad would depend on what your comfort level with kids or other people's kids is. The dad may be a great guy and the wife was a bitch and left him high and dry - but if you still don't really like dealing with others' kids or the politics of shared custody, you won't be happy with him. But I don't necessarily think that any childless woman would suffer by being with a dad. I bet women who really like kids but haven't had a chance to have their own and don't mind sharing would be perfectly happy with a dad. To each their own - I don't think anyone who doesn't want to deal with it should be pressured to "give it a try." Those messages you get from dads, getting pissy about how you won't give them a chance...? I would personally respond "Well, I see why you're single." ::) Seriously, why get pissy with someone you don't even know about that?

Kellydancer
07-08-2011, 03:10 PM
for you maybe.....

but its been a very GOOD idea for some women i know.

Every situation is unique.

The only way I could see it being good is if the woman is infertile and the man was a widower. Otherwise no it's a bad idea. I've had women here who disagreed with me on this until they dated a father and they told me that I was right.

Kellydancer
07-08-2011, 03:14 PM
Kelly, I would not want to date a dad either. I have a friend who always claims she doesn't want to date dads too - but every single guy she's dated in the past 2 years has been a dad. She hates it but she stays with them regardless and every single one has ended in disaster. Not necessarily because they have kids, but because these single guys who have children usually don't have their shit together - which is one of the big reasons why they have kids with someone they're not with or that relationship didn't work out. I'm not saying every dad is like that, but I definitely see where your thought process is. And I think the bigger problem is that she's settling for something she always says she doesn't want - if you know you don't want it, trying to force is just going to make things worse.

I think the success of a relationship with a dad would depend on what your comfort level with kids or other people's kids is. The dad may be a great guy and the wife was a bitch and left him high and dry - but if you still don't really like dealing with others' kids or the politics of shared custody, you won't be happy with him. But I don't necessarily think that any childless woman would suffer by being with a dad. I bet women who really like kids but haven't had a chance to have their own and don't mind sharing would be perfectly happy with a dad. To each their own - I don't think anyone who doesn't want to deal with it should be pressured to "give it a try." Those messages you get from dads, getting pissy about how you won't give them a chance...? I would personally respond "Well, I see why you're single." ::) Seriously, why get pissy with someone you don't even know about that?

For me it's not really the kids, because I generally likekids. It's just the drama with the dads. In every single case of a divorced/never married dad I know there is nasty drama. The divorce rate between a childless woman and a dad is something like 80%. That means the chances are the marriage will break up. The situation with a never married dad is very murky as well and my personal experience is guys like these don't believe in marriage and will do the same.

Why is your friend dating dads if she hates it? Many women believe the lie there are no single men and there are.

Aurora_Sunset
07-08-2011, 09:37 PM
For me it's not really the kids, because I generally likekids. It's just the drama with the dads. In every single case of a divorced/never married dad I know there is nasty drama. The divorce rate between a childless woman and a dad is something like 80%. That means the chances are the marriage will break up. The situation with a never married dad is very murky as well and my personal experience is guys like these don't believe in marriage and will do the same.

Why is your friend dating dads if she hates it? Many women believe the lie there are no single men and there are.

No idea why she keeps doing it.... usually she doesn't find out until after she's been seeing them a few weeks/months that they have kids. The time they confess they have kids is also usually the time they confess that they've been married and have served jail-time... - all things that are "dealbreakers" for her... ::) (Not that this is a "dad" thing - it's just funny to me that they lie and hide everything, and all the guys she dates seem the same). They also usually lie about their age - the last 3 guys in a row were 31 and said they were 28... not a big gap but still... why lie? I keep asking her why she even bothers sticking around or keeping contact with guys once she finds out something about them she didn't want or finds out they lied or kept secrets. I think she's just desperate. Every single time, she says "That's it! No more dads!" But she never sticks to it if she finds out a guy is a dad, and the cycle just repeats itself. That's why I totally understand having preconceptions about dads and not wanting to deal with it.

Kellydancer
07-08-2011, 11:24 PM
No idea why she keeps doing it.... usually she doesn't find out until after she's been seeing them a few weeks/months that they have kids. The time they confess they have kids is also usually the time they confess that they've been married and have served jail-time... - all things that are "dealbreakers" for her... ::) (Not that this is a "dad" thing - it's just funny to me that they lie and hide everything, and all the guys she dates seem the same). They also usually lie about their age - the last 3 guys in a row were 31 and said they were 28... not a big gap but still... why lie? I keep asking her why she even bothers sticking around or keeping contact with guys once she finds out something about them she didn't want or finds out they lied or kept secrets. I think she's just desperate. Every single time, she says "That's it! No more dads!" But she never sticks to it if she finds out a guy is a dad, and the cycle just repeats itself. That's why I totally understand having preconceptions about dads and not wanting to deal with it.

This is why I am terrified about doing online dating. I don't know where she meets them but I've seen this behavior from guys I met online. They'll seem nice then oops, they are married, or looking for sex, or various other things.

kthnx
07-09-2011, 04:24 AM
I think childless women dating dads is the WORST when she's broody and wants to get pregnant with a baby that's hers. Here's why:

1. Dads are less likely to actively intentionally WANT another baby. They're likely dealing with money issues (kids r expensive), baby moma drama, or have the "been there done that" atitude that now theyve experience the miracle of baby making theres no rush to jump into it again with New Girl.

2. Having to share child costs, babysitting tasks, receiving snide treatment fro
Bitter Baby Moma, and other "bad" aspects of raising some1 else's kids with none of the benifits such as having kids call u "mom" and mean it if they're over say, 3yrs old. Reminds me of that character Nicole on the soap opera days of our lives, where she luvs & cares for her stepkids so much but now that there growing up, they realize she's not there real mom so they prefer there real mom to her, which often hurts her feelings.

3. Jealousy issues. Concerning the baby moma. Dealing with the brunt of baby moma's jealousy of a New Girl in the pic. Or on the flip side, being jealous of Baby Moma bechz she gas the very thing Childless New Girl wants, kids. Or feelin jealous of Baby Moma becuz of worries that she might br able to snag back Daddy Bf since they share something very i timate and all encompassing that New Girl doesnt have: there kids.

4. Jealousy of Daddy Bf. In other words, Feeling inferior or "left behind" in comparison. particularly if the girl is past the average age of first time motherhood (over 25), been broody for a while, and the guy is younger then her.

5. Time apart...due to Daddy Bf canceling dates at last min to care for the kids, or not having enough $ to go on dates due to child expenses and/or high child support payments, or taking time out for numerous custody hearings, etc. Knowing ur not #1. it sux to not be someone's #1 when that someone is UR #1, or atleast expected that he's ur #1, all becuz u don't have kids but he does.

6. Going along with the last part of #5...childless double standards. Let's face it, childless adults past the age of say, 25 are a minority group that seems to get the short end of the stick in some situations yet this type of "discrimination" falls thru the cracks of the anti discrimination laws. Higher taxes, higher health ins costs for women due to the costs/risks of other women actually being able to make use of there ins maternity coverage (this is the worst for those who lack employer group health ins and have to foot the entire cost of an indep health plan themselves, like most STRIPPERS have to do), people condemning u for not having kids yet (e.g., ur parents yerning to become grandparents already), etc. Add to this list the obnoxious preaching childless folks sometimes (or often) hear from self righteous parents bout how "inexperienced in life" or "naive" u are since u don't have kids, or them taking advantage of ur time be us they can't imagine there time needed to tend to the kids is more "important" then the time of a person with no kids. Or the double standard (already mentioned in #5) that a bf will feel justified canceling or post poning date plans becuz he has kids to tend to, yet expects u to work around his work & kids schedule since u don't have any kids.

7. In the slim event Daddy Bf decides he does want a kid with New Girl:
The constant worry that she isn't "sizing up" to Baby Moma, in terms of how good she can handle pregnancy pain, how good her body looks pregnant, etc. having the hardest yet most special experience of her life going into labor, just to realize Daddy Bf has been there, done that with someone else b4...seems to cheapen the moment in a way.


Yea mebbe some of these reasons are shallow or rooted in paranoia, but I guarantee most if not all childless wannabe-moms dating dudes w/ prior kids has felt this way at atleast 1 pt or another. I certainly did when I was younger. I esp resented the condescending attitudes and preaching from folks bout me not knowing anything bout life or kids becuz I was childless...came from coworkers w/ kids expecting me to cover late shifts for them without really asking me if I could first, to "friends", to folks on childcare/mommy forums, to even my own father making me feel like my life is a "cake walk" becuz I had no kids(despite bein laid off, having a beloved antique car I'd just spent $1000s restoring burn up in flames, and having huge med bills stemming from unsuccessful infertility treatment, all w/in that same month)...it was angering, adding insult to injury to the fact that I had infertility!! The people who did this who always made me feel the worst were bfs, exes, FWBs. And the worst was when bfs with kids would say, even "just joking", that they couldnt see me becoming a mom...FUME! >:( It was at that pt in my life that I realized "I refuse to date a guy with prior kids!!!" this was about 4 yrs ago.

So yea even now I can sympathize for childless girls in that spot becuz altho I've "graduated" from that pt in my life, I know how much it can suck.

Kellydancer
07-09-2011, 12:02 PM
You are absolutely right. There definitely is a stigma against childless adults and as I age it's gets worse. I've had to take up slack at jobs when parents left early. When I dated men with kids I came second to the kids. These guys were supporting two households (the ex and their own)that when it came to money for the new girlfriend try little. I'm no gold digger but who doesn't like to be wined and dined? Dads can't often do that. I was lucky to get a card from them for Christmas let alone a gift.

You know what's sad though? Women believe the lie that there are no good men left without kids. This isn't true. Oh sure they might be shorter than others or not as attractive but they are good guys who many women rejected because they weren't hot.

SweetNaughty
07-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Word, Kd!!

jack0177057
07-09-2011, 07:02 PM
It's good to have hobbies and interests but u still gotta place urself in situations where you'll be prone to meet guys. For example if Miss World Traveler hangs around an all female camp with no dudes in sight, law of numbers means she won't meet ANYONE, no matter how interesting she might be.

Absolutely.


ok Jack, lol. this is funny stuff...
you are exactly like the Categ A ladies... your a Categ A guy undercover.....thats why your're going for Categ B ladies...
the bold line.. thats your problem LOL...

To be fair, I think everybody has been in Categ A at some point in their life. In my case, it was back in high school.

After high school - college was a four-year fuckfest, then came a 10 year marriage, after the divorce, I took a year off to enjoy "freedom" and casual sex, then settled down again with my current GF.


I think a lot of people are attacking Jack for giving the very sound advice of "make yourself happy first without devoting your life to finding a guy." Because no one likes someone who has nothing else going on in their life but a man-hunt. It makes them desperate and clingy - all-around not attractive qualities. And once she starts focusing on just enjoying the world around her by herself, not only will she not need a man as badly but when she does happen upon one, she'll be a more well-rounded and interesting person and not give off an air of desperation, making it more likely to work out with a good guy. I don't think he's telling her to "improve" or be "perfect" but there's nothing wrong with the idea of filling your life with interesting hobbies so you don't come off desperate for company on the dating scene.

Exactly... Right on point... Just want to add: If a girl has nothing in her life except the quest for a guy -- that is too much pressure on any guy, specially if he has friends, hobbies and a "life" outside of the relationship. Does he have to give all of that up to spend all his free tiime with her? And what happens when the relationship goes through it low points? What will sustain her, until it cycles back around?

lemiwinks31
07-11-2011, 09:35 AM
The only way I could see it being good is if the woman is infertile and the man was a widower. Otherwise no it's a bad idea. I've had women here who disagreed with me on this until they dated a father and they told me that I was right.


My freind who has been happily married to a divorced father for 10 years is going to be surprised when i tell her that her marriage was a horrible idea....two young kids of their own. And she is the step-mom to 2 high-school age kids who love their step siblings.

There were probably some issues with his kids when they got married(maybe not).....but all seems to be going fantastically for them now.

Again...you cant speak in absolutes.....it may be a bad idea for you, but it certainly wasnt a bad idea for my friend. Every situation is unique. It depends on the people.

Kellydancer
07-11-2011, 12:43 PM
My freind who has been happily married to a divorced father for 10 years is going to be surprised when i tell her that her marriage was a horrible idea....two young kids of their own. And she is the step-mom to 2 high-school age kids who love their step siblings.

There were probably some issues with his kids when they got married(maybe not).....but all seems to be going fantastically for them now.

Again...you cant speak in absolutes.....it may be a bad idea for you, but it certainly wasnt a bad idea for my friend. Every situation is unique. It depends on the people.

For her it might be a ok thing but I can say without knowing more. However, yes for most of childless women it is a bad thing. Many marry men who can't/won't have other kids, others suffer financially, still others come second to the kids. Your friend is the one in a million where it works FOR NOW. 82% of all marriages between childless women and dads end in divorce. If I found out something had a 82% chance of failure I don't think I would do it.

I will keep continuing to tell women dating a divorced dad is a nightmare. I've gotten a few pms here from women who didn't understand why I talk about this being a bad deal, then dealt with it themselves.

lemiwinks31
07-11-2011, 02:11 PM
Your friend is the one in a million where it works FOR NOW. 82% of all marriages between childless women and dads end in divorce.




or......maybe more like 18 in 100:)

Kellydancer
07-11-2011, 02:20 PM
Ok 18% work but still not a choice I would ever make and I'll tell women never to make the choice.

Katja1
07-17-2011, 06:22 PM
Thanks for all the advice it really helped. Already I've been getting out there. The other night someone invited me to a party, normally I would have said 'no' but I said 'yes'. I didnt meet anyone but it's a start.

I've also given up the online dating. I've been on it for years, but only met 3 people in person, and they all sucked. Well the last guy I did really like but he stood me up, Im still feeling so upset and confused.

If I go online again I will do eharmony because I know people who have met decent people on there. I've tried ALL of the other websites and they aren't for a lady my age!!!

I'm also growing my hair and making sure I look a bit prettier on my days off. Thanks everyone!

kthnx
07-19-2011, 05:32 AM
Ok 18% work but still not a choice I would ever make and I'll tell women never to make the choice.

Yea but I agree, 18% is still sucky odds. And I remember reading stats bout how each subsiquint marriage after a 1st marriage is more and more likely to end in divorce...somethin like 40% 1st marriages fail, 56% 2nd marriages fail, 65% 3rd marriages, etc. And to think that on AVERAGE, that ANY marriage involving 1 partner with kids + 1 without can fail...Based on those stats, that implies there's worse odds marrying a dad then marrying a serial marryer...WOW that speaks volumes.

Also, just becuz 18% marriages between dads and nonmoms stay together, it doesn't mean the marriage WORKS. there could be separation or a divorce waitin to happen. Or worse, a doormat wife who realizes she's bein ripped off in the marriage, but stays anyway becuz she thinks she can't do beter and she's desperate. (like that one poster's friend Who keeps dating convict dads). Or a wife who keeps hanging in there WAITING for things to get better (baby moma lowering child support payments, hubby deciding to finally have a baby with new wife, etc)...and tho no progress has happened yet, she keeps tellin herself to be patient and not leave or she mite miss out. This concept of overpatience occurred between my oWn parents...no there were no baby moma/baby daddy dramas in there marriagE, but my dad was a workaholic who worked as many as 100hr workweeks in his construction business. My mom got in HUGE fites with him bout his overworking and never bein home to the fam, even made comments to her friends and relatives bout how she "knew what It must be like to be a widow." yea we weren't exactly well off, and my dad needed to work xtra to afford the bills, but my pErfectionist, work-obsessed dad (who really does mean well, but had an actual work addiction) often overdid it. The only thing keeping my mom with him at times was looking forward to "better times", when my dad could finally retire and they could enjoy time together and reap benefits of the nest egg my dad had accumulated...well that day never came becuz then my mom died young and suddenly.

I think my parents story is alot more sympathetic and tragic then one of a childless wife waiting for things to get better with her "dad" husband, becuz in my parents case my dad realy did mean well, just had an honest work addiction and besides, he had nearly a dozen kids to support (all my dads + moms, no baby moma/daddy drama here!) and money was still a lil tite. But I have less sympathy for a girl who KNOWS what she's gettin into and STILL marries a dad, blindly thinking it'll somehow "not be that bad", then spending her whole marriage waiting around for it to get better and/or waiting to finally get the baby she wants which Mite never happen.

lemiwinks31
07-19-2011, 09:00 AM
Yea but I agree, 18% is still sucky odds. And I remember reading stats bout how each subsiquint marriage after a 1st marriage is more and more likely to end in divorce...somethin like 40% 1st marriages fail, 56% 2nd marriages fail, 65% 3rd marriages, etc. And to think that on AVERAGE, that ANY marriage involving 1 partner with kids + 1 without can fail...Based on those stats, that implies there's worse odds marrying a dad then marrying a serial marryer...WOW that speaks volumes.



"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Everyone need to stop worrying about the odds. Odds are less than 5% that when you quote odds, you are referring to an scientific, random sample, non-biased survey.:)

Even if it was accurate, there are SO many people completely and obviously unfit for marriage that are included in those stats. So if you have an ounce of common sense and you arent getting married as a teen, because she is pregnant, for money...etc. Your chances will increase exponentially.

When i got married, i put our chances of success at about 99%(because you can never be 100% sure about anything) Coming up on 16 years..I put our chances for then next 16 years at about 99%:)

Kellydancer
07-19-2011, 02:00 PM
But stats are important when it comes to this. I've had other posters HERE tell me in pm that they didn't believe it was a problem to date a dad, then they did and regretted it. In every single case I know the marriage was a problem.

kthnx, you mentioned that of the 18% that succeed might have problems too, and that is so true. I have heard stories of older or less attractive women who married dads, are miserable but afraid to leave because they may not find anyone. To me this is sad because they would rather be with anyone than be alone. I'm sometimes told that because of this I will be alone, to which I reply I'd rather be alone than deal with it. Not to mention that with people marrying later there are older single childless people. Oh sure, I have to settle on things that weren't that important like height or income but this to me is important. Plus, for religious reasons I feel I would betraying my views to date a divorced man with kids who I could never marry in church.

kthnx
07-19-2011, 06:33 PM
Lemiwinks, ur rite...stats ARE biased. Which is why it's good my last post on this thred took the time to explain how the "18% of marriages to dads are a success" may be a misleading farce ;)


Seriously. When I became single after having my son, I didn't try to get childless guys becuz I didn't think it'd be fair to put them thru all that. Esp since I was so adimint bout avoiding dads b4 I became a parent myself, I didn't want to then be a hypicrite. Besides, I can relate better to guys who also have kids. If anything, alot of the guys that are childless by there 30s in my area that I know personally, are rather unrelatible to me and live a less mature lifestyle (still drinks alot and parties like a 22 yr old, still rents and/or has only in recent yrs moved out of home, etc). So I'm not one of those people who'd try crappy rhetoric to relentlessly convince non-parents to date me lol (like what Kelly described often happens to her from dads lol). :D

SweetNaughty
07-19-2011, 06:35 PM
"The are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

Kellydancer
07-19-2011, 08:43 PM
Lemiwinks, ur rite...stats ARE biased. Which is why it's good my last post on this thred took the time to explain how the "18% of marriages to dads are a success" may be a misleading farce ;)


Seriously. When I became single after having my son, I didn't try to get childless guys becuz I didn't think it'd be fair to put them thru all that. Esp since I was so adimint bout avoiding dads b4 I became a parent myself, I didn't want to then be a hypicrite. Besides, I can relate better to guys who also have kids. If anything, alot of the guys that are childless by there 30s in my area that I know personally, are rather unrelatible to me and live a less mature lifestyle (still drinks alot and parties like a 22 yr old, still rents and/or has only in recent yrs moved out of home, etc). So I'm not one of those people who'd try crappy rhetoric to relentlessly convince non-parents to date me lol (like what Kelly described often happens to her from dads lol). :D

You know what I was thinking though is how many of the 18% are from couples where there is no other parent, like the parent is a widow, adopted as a single parent, etc. Probably small but still could be part of the 18%.

I do think the ages vary by area. I live close to Chicago and most people I know marry later. That's why there are single people later in life. That's partly why I refuse to settle and why I'm fine being single. Yes I get a lot of dads trying to convince me and I won't even consider unless there is no ex in the picture.

kthnx
07-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Kelly: Yea my city has first time marriage and parenting ages that are fairly average but lower then that of say, NYC or Chicago. There's still people over 35 who are never-married and childless, but I suspect atleast a portion of them just don't have those things as priorities in there lives (kinda the way u were prior to the last few yrs)... Or, there married and want a mistress/fucktoy... Atleast that's the experience I had with older guys >35 a few yrs ago prior to my son. I do agree that ages can vary with location.

I heard that in Europe they tend to marry and have kids very late, partly becuz cost of living + real estate is so godawful costly there. The bjrth rate is so low there, that some countrys' govts r imposing a literal "childless tax" on childless people over 35 (becuz falling birth rate is a liability on there social security programs)... talk bout childless discrimination... But atleast some1 in that situation is far from alone, so atleast they dont have the social stigma on top of the financial one. U mite want to look into any recent European immigrint males ur age in ur area, sinse there's better odds they're not dads :)

Kellydancer
07-19-2011, 09:21 PM
Yeah I've read about those taxes and how people in many countries are putting off marriage until late 30's. I think the taxes are bs but they happen here and it's pure discrimination. I would consider an European man.