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tampadancer
07-16-2011, 12:29 PM
BULLSHIT! In my opinion, revengefuck is worst because it is INTENTIONALLY and DELIBERATELY executed for no other reason that to be vindictive and to inflict mortal wounds. One person is an undisciplined immature lecherous idiot, but without evil intent. The other person does have evil intent (even though she is justifiably upset).

Okay, after re-reading Jack's post in the given context - I understand what he is saying. He is trying to explain why, in his opinion, the revenge fuck is worse than cheating. I think most of us would agree that cheating is wrong, period... but the revenge fuck is done purely out of spite and vindictiveness. I think that the OP responded with a revenge fuck in a flurry of hurtful emotion...which I think is understandable.

To me, cheating is just as bad because it shows total and utter disregard for another person, but we could go round and round on the argument as to which is "worse" : cheating or revenge sex.




Also, cheating men are a big reason for why there are so many STD's too!

Yikes! This is a pretty unfair statement. You know, women cheat and have unprotected sex, too...


I'm sorry he hurt you like that. About the revenge fuck though: It's over and done now, but next time someone hurts you don't use your body to get even. What you have is so precious, so special and so wonderful you should only bestow your gift on someone that you want to enlighten about the secrets of your awesomeness. Not somebody who would allow you to use your fabulous self in a sexual way as spite.

This. Well said.

kthnx
07-16-2011, 12:35 PM
Hmm im starting to think jack0177057 is actually a nickname for JACKASS0177057 ::)

HEY JACK -- what if u had a sexually addicted gf who cheated under the same logic u justified a dude having? Would u easily forgive her for cheating this way?? Or would u still be hostile about it? Be honest. If it's the 2nd one, that shows ur a sexist bigot. And don't u dare say "girls aren't capable of libidos, sexual frustration, etc" becuz many ARE. I was one of them. It was very hard for me to refrain myself from gorgeous guys when I was single, and feeling "obligated" to avoid them when I was in a relationship often felt like a chore, no matter how much I may have loved the guy. But I still abstained from cheating, unless it was a dude who cheated on me, treated me badly, wasn't actually my bf, etc.

What smurfette said...I agree. And when she said how a cheating whore guy rather deserves a girl "throwing his stuff all over his lawn, fucking another guy just to piss him off, spreading rumors about his penis bein small"...gotta say I did ALL of those things to a guy who cheated for some of the outright shitty/malicious reasons I stated in my last, long epic-length post on this thred. And I have to admit, it pissed off people and I even lost some friends (mutual friends of the guy and I) doing it, but overall I gained MORE respect from people. I even had people congratulating me on putting him in his place, mostly chicas but some dudes too. They respected me more Becuz it showed I was no longer taking shit from people like him. (ironically, me taking too much shit and not standing up for myself was the reason he cheated with a "better" girl...which made my revenge even MORE fitting; kinda like a girl becoming bikini-hot after a dude dumps her for bein too fat hahaha).

One last point. Spinnerette, u said u didn't get any pleasure hooking up with ur ex. I find this concept foreign. See, mebbe it's becuz I stayed on good terms with most of my exes, as good friends and/or FWBs. And the only ones I kept as FWBs were the really hot ones, who I was never in an overly serious or long relationship with back when we dates...so no drama or baggage there. Example, the ex I "revenge cheated" on the cheating jerk with. Me and this ex only actualy dated 1-2mos and it ended becuz I went away to college, so no drama. I hung out with him as friends on occasion when I was back in the area. A few yrs later he was one of my better FWBs when I was single...in fact he was the last FWB I had before dating the cheating jerk. Only thing that stopped me from responding to his advances was now being "someone's gf" (feeling obligated to stay faithful). Oh and the sex was alot better with FWB too lol so the answer to cheat with FWB was both fun AND easy.

Bottom line, spinnerette, if ur gonna revenge cheat try to make sure it's with a guy who ur still sexually attracted to and don't have drama with. That makes the sex FUN FOR U. IMHO I think revenge cheating that doesn't feel good while ur doing it, is SAD. Becuz i see it as a way to not just get revenge but to celebrate ur freedom. And plz don't say it's becuz u still have feelings for the cheating jerk, becuz if so, that's sad too. E.g., I liked the jerk enough when we were dating, but as soon as he broke plans and cheated, any feelings I had for him vanished in thin air. Sex shouldn't have to feel like ur "giving up ur precious special body", So Fine Divine. If it does, then ur going about it wrong...choosing a rebound guy ur not into.

Spinnerette
07-16-2011, 01:14 PM
Ehhhh, I never said I revenge fucked my ex. Hell no. I was saying that if I were in this situation, I wouldn't have even considered it, because an ex is an ex is an ex. I don't know what her ex is like (mine is horrible, par the course), but it's in my experience that regardless of how it ended, once you break it off, you take the physical aspect out of your acquaintance because it could complicate things (should you choose to stay in contact). But maybe her ex is like some of yours, kthnx and he'll take it for what it was instead of trying to take advantage of an emotionally fragile situation.

Also...round of applause for Smurfette. She summed up my sentiments on the "revenge fucking is worse than blah blah blah" thing beautifully.

eagle2
07-16-2011, 01:31 PM
Not necessarily... Some people may cheat just because of a high libido and the excitement/sexual thrill of being with a new person. There is no intent to harm their SOs. Granted it is lack of discipline and maturity, but there is no evil intent. Like a kid taking a cookie from a cookie jar, when he is not supposed to. He does it because he wants a cookie really bad, and lacks the maturity and discipline to fight off the temptation. He does not take the cookie because he wants to upset his mother and figured out this was the best way to do it.

When men cheat, its usually not because they want to "hurt" their SO. Rather, its like this - Damn, this girl is hot... I want her so bad, but I can't, because I have a GF... Damn, I totally could do this girl, but that would be wrong... Well, its only wrong if my GF find out about it... If she never finds out about it, nobody gets hurt... I'm going to marry my GF and then I'll NEVER sleep with another person,... but I'm not married yet... MY GF isn't going to find out about this... It'll be quick, I just have to get this out of my system... I'll be extra nice to my GF this week... I swear, I won't do this when I'm married...

In a recent poll, more than half of men admitted that they would cheat if they knew for sure that their GF or wives would never find out.

For example, I go to SCs to have high contact with hot dancers. I don't do happy ending extras, but I do get lots of grinding, titties on my face, etc. I love my GF, I have sex with her every chance I get (about 4-5 times a week), we are very close and there is no "lasting problem with the relationship". But, still... about once every month or two... I get an uber STRONG irresistable urge to visit a SC and take delight in lap dances and fantasies with other woman. I'm not justifying/rationalizing my actions - yes, I am a pig and I know it. But, despite being a pig, I have no intent on causing any pain to my GF. I don't have sex with other women, but I do partially give in to my appetite for variety and erotic fantasies with lap dances.

Suppose my GF discovers it and decides to punish me by giving our neighbor a blowjob -- something she KNOWS will be absolutely devastating to me.

Who is the worst person? My guess is that most of the women here would say I was the worst person, because I cheated first... you may even say it's my fault that my GF gave our neighbor a BJ and now feels terrible and cheap about it... I caused her so much pain and anger, that I practically grabbed her head and forced it to come upon our neighbor's dick.

BULLSHIT! In my opinion, revengefuck is worst because it is INTENTIONALLY and DELIBERATELY executed for no other reason that to be vindictive and to inflict mortal wounds. One person is an undisciplined immature lecherous idiot, but without evil intent. The other person does have evil intent (even though she is justifiably upset).

Having said this, I'm not judging the OP. Its simple - she has two options - (1) leave him, or (2) find a way that this experience can make the relationship stronger... Healing the wounds and starting fresh...

Doesn't matter what the reason is. Cheating is cheating. I find it to be a lot worse if the person cheating doesn't tell their SO. What if he catches an STD or HIV while cheating, and is not using condoms with his SO because she thinks he is being monogamous?

girlfromipanema
07-16-2011, 02:08 PM
I'm sorry he hurt you like that. About the revenge fuck though: It's over and done now, but next time someone hurts you don't use your body to get even. What you have is so precious, so special and so wonderful you should only bestow your gift on someone that you want to enlighten about the secrets of your awesomeness. Not somebody who would allow you to use your fabulous self in a sexual way as spite.

God it really didn't go down that way at all. I was mad. I am remorseful because I didn't calm down and think rationally. The relationship was over. I hadn't had sex in many months. He was careless of my feelings and so I was careless of his. I use my body in a sexual way when I go to work and do lap dances. I am not a chaste virgin. This wasn't a premeditated scheme. I was mad and didn't give a fuck to be considerate of him anymore.

junigirl
07-16-2011, 02:12 PM
Smurfette, your long post was excellent. Very to-the-point and articulate and great points made! I am really enjoying this thread. In fact I think all the ladies are making some good points and observations about a complicated topic that needs the facts laid out clearly so shitbags can't use illogical excuses full of holes and bullshit.

unbeleavable
07-16-2011, 02:21 PM
People playing with someone’s emotions...I hate games! I'm a very picky man & I hope I never have the feeling of having to go pay to get my rocks off once a month because the one called mine doesn't do it for me anymore.

junigirl
07-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Tampadancer, yes women cheat too. Sorry, I was making it sound like only men cheated and contributed to the spread of std's. Technically, males females and transgender people can cheat. And any of them can be careless and not use condoms when screwing around and spread it to their main person(by the way I have read u can get chlamydia or gonorrhea from simply oral sex...so yikes! Need to check on that info further,but have read it several places.people need to watch out even from sucking pee pees and pussies without any barrier or condom).

kthnx
07-16-2011, 06:50 PM
Yea and a basic urine test will not always reveal if u got those stds from oral, since orally transmited STDs' pt of infection is in the throat region. U gotta get a separate throat culture test for that.

jack0177057
07-18-2011, 11:57 AM
Jack, I don't know what to say. I like you, always have, but I do think this is wrong.

I agree that it is wrong.


Now if your girlfriend has no problem with it, then no biggie. However, if she would be hurt then it is wrong.

I doubt that any GF or wife has no problem with their BF or husband getting lap dances - unless she's with him and they are both getting them.


The idea was BEFORE marriage the guy would have sex with another woman and it wasn't cheating. It was said he was getting it out of his system before marriage. This is where the modern idea of a bachelor party came from (and no I am not implying strippers slept with the guy, not at all).

I think this idea is still trapped in the minds of many people, though they won't admit it to their GF or BF. If you know that you are going to tie the knot and sleep with only one person for the rest of your life, no matter how that person looks in ten years, then you might be tempted to have some discreet adventures/thrills before taking that walk to the alter.


Okay, after re-reading Jack's post in the given context - I understand what he is saying. He is trying to explain why, in his opinion, the revenge fuck is worse than cheating. I think most of us would agree that cheating is wrong, period... but the revenge fuck is done purely out of spite and vindictiveness. I think that the OP responded with a revenge fuck in a flurry of hurtful emotion...which I think is understandable.

To me, cheating is just as bad because it shows total and utter disregard for another person, but we could go round and round on the argument as to which is "worse" : cheating or revenge sex.

Thanks tampadancer, for trying to understand. Yeah, I knew I would get flamed for my post. But, its been a while, so I was due for one.

I know cheating is wrong - I don't defend it or justify it... I am a sinner confessing my sins,... so everyone else, go ahead and cast stones... (Besides, I though SC entertainment was just erotic entertainment.)

My point was that some cheaters mean no harm to their SOs, but they are weak-willed and have an addiction or a compulsion. Again, I'm not saying this in defense of cheaters, but just stating the facts. Men have a super-strong compulsion to stray - millions of years of evolution cannot be stopped cold in just half-a-century. You ladies have oxytocin - that makes you want to bond with your lover, we have some of that too, but our strongest hormone is testesterone - which makes us fantasize about sex with every semi-good looking girl we run across.

I've never cheated on my GF, in the sense of fucking another women, but the impulse to do so is strong... My visits to the SC is how I partially give in to little sins (lap dances), to avoid commiting worst sins (full-blown adultery). If you are a dancer and this upsets you, then refuse to take my money next time I'm in the club.

Someone raised a good point about how pursuing other thrills can distract your attention from your GF or wife. I think this was the case with the OP's BF. Her biggest wound might be knowing that all the times he neglected her, he was probably chasing other women. In my case, I have sex with my GF 3 to 5 times a week, and if it were up to me, it would be 9 times (1x per day during the week & 2x per day during the weekend.) The SC does not cause a major distraction (except for SC junkies) because you don't have to chase women and you get your fix in under an hour.

The revenge-fucker is acting out of pure vindictiveness and hate with the deliberate and violent intent to inflict the maximum amount of pain on her or his SO. Revenge always has the potential of being worst than the original crime or sin. This is why the law does not allow it.

jack0177057
07-18-2011, 01:26 PM
Hmm im starting to think jack0177057 is actually a nickname for JACKASS0177057

How can we have an honest discussion about something when you start off with an insult? This is why so many potentially interesting debates on this forum end up becoming immature name-calling fights.


HEY JACK -- what if u had a sexually addicted gf who cheated under the same logic u justified a dude having? Would u easily forgive her for cheating this way?? Or would u still be hostile about it? Be honest. If it's the 2nd one, that shows ur a sexist bigot. And don't u dare say "girls aren't capable of libidos, sexual frustration, etc" becuz many ARE. I was one of them. It was very hard for me to refrain myself from gorgeous guys when I was single, and feeling "obligated" to avoid them when I was in a relationship often felt like a chore, no matter how much I may have loved the guy. But I still abstained from cheating, unless it was a dude who cheated on me, treated me badly, wasn't actually my bf, etc.

I would not go out and revenge-fuck,... but yeah, I'd be pissed as hell and I'd want you to explain. I never said forgiveness would be easy.

The outcome depends on many factors:
1) How long have we been together? Are we engaged?
2) Who did you sleep with? Was it one of my friends? Someone you work with? An ex-BF? A stranger? Was he someone who lives in another city far away or down the street?
3) How discreet were you? Did you kiss him in public, so that everyone knows about it, and you have totally humiliated me?
4) How do you know you won't slip up again?
5) How are you going to make it up to me? Maybe you'll give me a "get out of jail card," in case I ever slip up. Or maybe you'll offer me a menage a trois with your hottest girlfriend to sooth my pain.

Actually, since you and I have a lot in common, i.e., super high libidos - I might be more understanding than you think. (I'd be less forgiving of a girl with low libido who cheated on me.) We might discuss lifetyle options, like an open relationship or swinging.

SweetNaughty
07-18-2011, 01:32 PM
"Those that have not sinned cast the first stone..."

Spinnerette
07-18-2011, 04:16 PM
I dunno dude. Still sounds like a plethora of excuses to me because if one cannot remain faithful than they should not seek to attach themselves. If they seek to attach themselves and still want to be a philanderer, than that is an ISSUE and they have 2 choices: A.) Detach themselves and allow their partner to find someone who will remain faithful thus freeing themselves to enjoy all the carnal desires they want free of guilt and related consequences or B.) STOP IT and if they feel too weak to combat the urge, seek professional help. It's not rocket science and people trying to make cheating complicated by bringing sexual addiction or evolution into the equation is lazy as these things are not excuses at all. Points A and B are the only paths available for one to take barring the initiation of an open relationship.

Again, it's in my opinion that if you have to step on someone to get what you want, it IS malicious and I'm sure if your GF found out, she'd be VERY hurt with your action. So whether you're sticking your piece in someone else or simply let them grind on it, it's all the same because relationships boil down to trust and respect. By doing what you're doing, you're conveying a message of what she's providing in her role not being enough and being dishonest on top of that. When and if your GF finds out, the fact that you've gone on so long lying to her, that's going to make her paranoid and the thought process is "if he would lie to me about something like this, what else is he hiding? Has he done worse?" But I suppose you've acknowledged this risk and do not care. But I wanted to make these points anyway. It is what it is.

Also, on another point that has been expressed that I also think is silly, what is it with people attaching themselves for fun and basing the depth of their fault based on the "seniority" of the relationship? Does the fact that you're emotionally involved with someone mean nothing because "Oh, it's only been 3 months..." I don't believe one needs to attach themselves to someone to get the things most people want out of a relationship and that by adopting labels, you're also adopting a stance of being in for the long haul and should therefore act like it. If it's not serious, don't make it serious. I know dating with labels is popular in today's culture, but I never did simply because I wasn't looking to be obligated (emotionally or otherwise) to anyone for my actions. I got my hang-out time and the privilege of having a "friend" who knew me sexually and it worked fine. I don't understand this refusal to accept that despite being with someone you've labeled as being part of a union with you for a short amount of time somehow makes your betrayal and their pain mean less.

Spinnerette
07-18-2011, 04:30 PM
Oh oh oh, and one more thing: Sex is not a bad thing. I wanted to clarify and say I am not mad at people who want sexual variety. I like variety. That's why my relationship is open and lots of communication is had before I engage myself with someone outside of my husband (and vice versa). It's people who say they love someone and yet hide themselves that chafes me because it's unfair to both parties and indicative of an unhappy union which doesn't make sense to me. More jaded sex worker speak i.e. "My wife wouldn't understand...." and it's like well, have you spoken to her about it (9 times out of 10 they have have not). Then it's like, well if this aspect of your personality is such big part of you, why would marry someone who doesn't accept it and work with you on it? That's not love.

lemiwinks31
07-19-2011, 10:01 AM
BULLSHIT! In my opinion, revengefuck is worst because it is INTENTIONALLY and DELIBERATELY executed for no other reason that to be vindictive and to inflict mortal wounds. One person is an undisciplined immature lecherous idiot, but without evil intent. The other person does have evil intent (even though she is justifiably upset).



No. In your example you & your wife/gf were in a monogamous relationship when you cheated on her.......

That means that because you slept with another woman, its no longer monogamous relationship. So she has sex with someone else.

You betrayed the monogamous relationship......She was just playing by the new rules you unilaterally set up.

wellheeled
07-19-2011, 10:44 AM
Not necessarily... Some people may cheat just because of a high libido and the excitement/sexual thrill of being with a new person. There is no intent to harm their SOs.

When I said that cheating is due to problems in the relationship, I didn't mean that a cheater wants to harm their partner. I don't think that's usually true. I think cheating is a reaction to not getting something you need in your relationship. That can be different things for different people, but I would actually classify monogamy, in your case, as the problem you have. Some people aren't cut out for monogamy. God knows I'm not. My partner and I can both fuck and date whomever else we want to, as long as we put each other first. Maybe that's what you need, too.

I mean, it's easy for us because we live in San Francisco. There's a whole polyamorous community here. I don't know where you live or how open your GF and other women there tend to be. Why not at least read a little bit about polyamory, though? Dan Savage (writes for The Stranger, Seattle) has great stuff about polyamory and open relationships. There's also The Ethical Slut, which is a great beginner poly book.


No. In your example you & your wife/gf were in a monogamous relationship when you cheated on her.......

That means that because you slept with another woman, its no longer monogamous relationship. So she has sex with someone else.

You betrayed the monogamous relationship......She was just playing by the new rules you unilaterally set up.

This is what I was trying to say about the badness of revenge fuck vs. badness of cheating.

Beyond that I have no wish to flame. Your cheating example from your own life involved getting dances from strippers. Having been a stripper who gave dances to plenty of married guys, I'm just going to let that lie. I don't actually want to convince the married SC customers of the world to go straight and stop getting lapdances! (Although it is totally possible, with some women, to get GF approval to have as many lapdances as you want, and again that's a real option.)

Smurfette
07-19-2011, 11:03 AM
I think this idea is still trapped in the minds of many people, though they won't admit it to their GF or BF. If you know that you are going to tie the knot and sleep with only one person for the rest of your life, no matter how that person looks in ten years, then you might be tempted to have some discreet adventures/thrills before taking that walk to the alter.

This is wrong. Just because you're not married (yet) doesn't give you free reign to do whatever the hell you want. Long-term monogamous relationships still have rules and boundaries, just because it's not written down in a legal document doesn't mean you can just ignore all that. Besides, people who cheat before getting married will probably come up with some kind of half-assed justification for cheating after marriage as well.

I'm getting married in a couple weeks, if my fiance went out tonight and fucked a random girl just to "get it out of his system" before marriage and I found out, our relationship would be over immediately, the wedding would be canceled, and I'd never want to speak to the bastard again. Doesn't matter whether we've said our vows or not.



My point was that some cheaters mean no harm to their SOs, but they are weak-willed and have an addiction or a compulsion. Again, I'm not saying this in defense of cheaters, but just stating the facts. Men have a super-strong compulsion to stray - millions of years of evolution cannot be stopped cold in just half-a-century. You ladies have oxytocin - that makes you want to bond with your lover, we have some of that too, but our strongest hormone is testesterone - which makes us fantasize about sex with every semi-good looking girl we run across.

This explanation does not work because we are not wild animals running around humping each other on the Discovery channel. We are human beings and for thousands of years, we've lived in societies with established rules and norms. What separates us from other mammals is our ability to use rational thought to guide our actions. Saying "Oh well, I'm a man and it's just biology that makes me cheat" is akin to saying "Oh, well I only lied about being on birth control because I'm a FEMALE and my biological need is to have as many babies as humanly possible! It's just evolution, hehe!"

Using this same logic, you could also justify rape and a whole host of other despicable things, because it's "natural"... well, just because some animals may rape each other doesn't make it acceptable for humans to do the same.

Besides, women have high sex drives too. Most women want to sleep with multiple people to "play the field" before settling down. Many married women cheat. The evolutionary explanation you provided gives a convenient justification for when men cheat, but what about women? Isn't it in our biological nature to just sit at home and pump out babies, pining for you all day because we need the security of (one) man?

tempest666
07-20-2011, 02:55 AM
I have a good man who would never cheat. We've been faithful to each other throughout our relationship. We've had 3somes but only when both are present.


That being said IF he ever did cheat I would cut off his dick and hang it as a rearview mirror decoration. I would wait til it was past the point of no return to reattach it. (But you're a good pooky so u get to keep your wee wee)

He was reading this and snickering.

kthnx
07-20-2011, 05:10 AM
Nevermind