View Full Version : Make MyFreeCams Follow the RULES!
Sam38g
07-24-2011, 12:26 PM
Fact is if you DonT like how a company operates, then Do NOT work for them.
NO ONE is being raped here. NO one is being forced to sign these contracts.
A girl can stick 3 dildos in her ass, doesnt mean a single finger will even go into mine on cam.
I Do NOT do public shows, I still make money. I do NOT diss on other models doing it either.
I still have plenty of men in my rooms. I still have plenty of paying customers.
It is a free market. You can chose to work for whatever cam company you want to or even be an independent and work to get your own traffic.
As in porn there are girls willing to do dp, anal, gang bangs and then there are girls who will only model topless. The market determines if they will make money or not. Looks, personality, ability to come across the camera and karisma determine whether or not they made money.
YOu control your room. Beggars can be kicked out or banned. I dont let beggars run my room or what I do in public chat. They can tell me to stand on my head and sing the national anthem doesn't mean I will ever do it. Yet some gals might.
I debated a long time of whether or not to work for MFC. Now, I love it. If you don't like it. Quit. Do something else.
Any of you can become independent cam gals, I have seen many threads here on how to do it. Stop bitching and go do it on your own if you don't like MFC.
I am a 42 year old fat ass BBW. Still I make money.
You can blame the system but it maybe your looks, your personality, your shows that keeps you from making money on that site. I personally had to change the way I cammed from how I did it in the past to make money on there. Can't treat MFC like you do other cam sites. It is a different animal.
There are high dollar escorts, then there are cheap ass crack whores. They all sell pussy. Still that market since the beginning of time still pretty much works the same way. There are some men willing to pay big money to a pretty gal who will do very little for it then there is a cheap ass driving down a street demanding anal condomless sex for $20. Both can make $1000 a day. Pretty gal who is smart will only have to fuck one guy, the other will have to alot more men for it.
Sam
Sam
Sam38g
07-24-2011, 12:43 PM
Don't sign the contract. It is that easy. Well... when you watch these trainwrecks of celebrities and musicians.. remember... they signed that contract. The contract of hell. Contract of control. Now they are not only expected to be an artist.. but they are also expected to be a product.. and a damn good salesman, and if they aren't.. then they disappear. Sometimes, we are only artists. To think of yourself as only an artist limits you.
So, we need to become 'power players'. Which means.. we have to work our asses off for virtually nothing until we get enough recognition as a 'power player' and then we can finally get that extra 5% of income? Null. Rule #1 in any business is sales! Seems that you are afraid of work. Because when I do marketing I increase my sales by more than 5%.
Cam companies (like any other government entity) want cam girls who are willing to work hard as hell, for just enough money to keep them coming back, so the real money can be made by the *owner*.. owner. You don't own you. They own you. They own you. Regardless of how smart, sexy, and educated you are. You are fucking owned.
I make more than just enough money. But I work hard on marketing so that when I do cam I make the most out of my time.
If you dont want to put the time,money, energy, knowledge into building up your own cam site, getting traffic, dealing with chargeback and money launders. Then a 50/50 split is fair.
"We have a single system, and in that system the only question is the price at which the proletariat is to be bought and sold, the bread and circuses.""The whole fabric of society will go to wrack if we really lay hands of reform on our rotten institutions. From top to bottom the whole system is a fraud, all of us know it, laborers and capitalists alike, and all of us are consenting parties to it." -- Henry Adams[/quote]
If you think it is all a fraud. Then do something else. As if working a regular job is any different. Go work at a drug store, Walmart, gas station and make $250 a week. Go make what I do in a day or more for less than 4 hours of my time.
"Things may come to those who wait, but only what is leftover by the hustlers." Abraham Lincoln
Sam
ladyjalyn
07-24-2011, 01:00 PM
Since when are pictures of kids are allowed on MFC profile? I saw it and was like WTF!!! Or did I miss a memo? http://profiles.myfreecams.com/Divineme
Marleysade
07-24-2011, 01:03 PM
Don't sign the contract. It is that easy. Well... when you watch these trainwrecks of celebrities and musicians.. remember... they signed that contract. The contract of hell. Contract of control. Now they are not only expected to be an artist.. but they are also expected to be a product.. and a damn good salesman, and if they aren't.. then they disappear. Sometimes, we are only artists. To think of yourself as only an artist limits you.
So, we need to become 'power players'. Which means.. we have to work our asses off for virtually nothing until we get enough recognition as a 'power player' and then we can finally get that extra 5% of income? Null. Rule #1 in any business is sales! Seems that you are afraid of work. Because when I do marketing I increase my sales by more than 5%.
Cam companies (like any other government entity) want cam girls who are willing to work hard as hell, for just enough money to keep them coming back, so the real money can be made by the *owner*.. owner. You don't own you. They own you. They own you. Regardless of how smart, sexy, and educated you are. You are fucking owned.
I make more than just enough money. But I work hard on marketing so that when I do cam I make the most out of my time.
If you dont want to put the time,money, energy, knowledge into building up your own cam site, getting traffic, dealing with chargeback and money launders. Then a 50/50 split is fair.
"We have a single system, and in that system the only question is the price at which the proletariat is to be bought and sold, the bread and circuses.""The whole fabric of society will go to wrack if we really lay hands of reform on our rotten institutions. From top to bottom the whole system is a fraud, all of us know it, laborers and capitalists alike, and all of us are consenting parties to it." -- Henry Adams
If you think it is all a fraud. Then do something else. As if working a regular job is any different. Go work at a drug store, Walmart, gas station and make $250 a week. Go make what I do in a day or more for less than 4 hours of my time.
"Things may come to those who wait, but only what is leftover by the hustlers." Abraham Lincoln
Sam[/quote]
Sam..I see and respect your point...I agree if you work hard in marketing you will get business but for the contract we signed I signed a contract that i was fine with..its the fact that i feel that I came to this site thinking it was ok BECAUSE of the the strict rules...Good for you for getting your businiss and doing well..I hope in 6 mos to a year i can be like you..But you have to agree that a few years ago it wasnt like this..Im thinking big picture about this petition..if they allow this stuff now what will they allow in a few years? thats our point! If you disagree fine.. but I want those that do agree to speak up and sign the petition! It only takes 30 secs..Lets set the Standard now!!
BlankStare
07-24-2011, 01:20 PM
Fact is if you DonT like how a company operates, then Do NOT work for them.
NO ONE is being raped here. NO one is being forced to sign these contracts.
A girl can stick 3 dildos in her ass, doesnt mean a single finger will even go into mine on cam.
I Do NOT do public shows, I still make money. I do NOT diss on other models doing it either.
I still have plenty of men in my rooms. I still have plenty of paying customers.
It is a free market. You can chose to work for whatever cam company you want to or even be an independent and work to get your own traffic.
As in porn there are girls willing to do dp, anal, gang bangs and then there are girls who will only model topless. The market determines if they will make money or not. Looks, personality, ability to come across the camera and karisma determine whether or not they made money.
YOu control your room. Beggars can be kicked out or banned. I dont let beggars run my room or what I do in public chat. They can tell me to stand on my head and sing the national anthem doesn't mean I will ever do it. Yet some gals might.
I debated a long time of whether or not to work for MFC. Now, I love it. If you don't like it. Quit. Do something else.
Any of you can become independent cam gals, I have seen many threads here on how to do it. Stop bitching and go do it on your own if you don't like MFC.
I am a 42 year old fat ass BBW. Still I make money.
You can blame the system but it maybe your looks, your personality, your shows that keeps you from making money on that site. I personally had to change the way I cammed from how I did it in the past to make money on there. Can't treat MFC like you do other cam sites. It is a different animal.
There are high dollar escorts, then there are cheap ass crack whores. They all sell pussy. Still that market since the beginning of time still pretty much works the same way. There are some men willing to pay big money to a pretty gal who will do very little for it then there is a cheap ass driving down a street demanding anal condomless sex for $20. Both can make $1000 a day. Pretty gal who is smart will only have to fuck one guy, the other will have to alot more men for it.
Sam
Sam
Yes Sam.. we are being raped. Any time someone takes more than 15% of YOUR money that you are making off of YOUR body.. it's rape.. pimp.. whatever term you would like to use.
Yea, there are SOME guys willing to pay without a problem, and do have a problem with the shitty morality of some of these girls. Um.. but the numbers are about 1 in 1000.. if it's even that good. So, make the guys that aren't paying fucking PAY! It's really that simple. Of course MFC girls are going to have a problem with it. Oh.. I don't do shows in free.......... 95% do. And You could probably make WAY WAY WAY more money than you are now if those girls WEREN'T fucking themselves for free. It's not about "Oh I make lots of money now even the way it is" Well guess what? Your money will continue to drop, you said yourself that you are in your 40s.. do you really want to keep 'reinventing' and 'hustling hard' at your age? How about in 5 years? Why not just have it be easier and not have a bunch of women fucking themselves with baseball bats, live, and for free?
Oh, and I said earlier that $250 was easier to come by then. Not that it's impossible now.. but just think.. before MFC.. Most girls were making at least $100-$300 STEADY an HOUR. Not any more.. I don't give a shit how cute and cool you are.
Niko-n-Justine
07-24-2011, 01:29 PM
Yes Sam.. we are being raped. Any time someone takes more than 15% of YOUR money that you are making off of YOUR body.. it's rape.. pimp.. whatever term you would like to use.
.
No no.. RAPE occurs against ones will. Choosing to cam at MFC or wherever is far from rape. You CHOOSE to do such, you are not forced to do it. There are other cam sites in the world... oh hell, there are plenty of other professions in the world. You don't have to do the job if you don't like what it entails. Free market enterprise baby, that's the name of the game.
More importantly, I think you girls really just don't get it. Running servers, attorney fees, general business costs are DAMN expensive. Is Leo making good money? Hell yeah he is! And guess what, that's capitalism at it's best! If these guys weren't making any money, there would be no sites for us to make our money on.
Don't hate someone because they make their bank... if you think you can do it better, don't trash 'em, do it yourself and show that you can do it better and give the girls more money. I'll guarantee and bet anything that you are in for a shock of a lifetime if you think you can pay girls 85% and stay in business! YOU CAN'T... and anyone would know that who owns a multi-million dollar business. Life ain't that easy.
ashiepants
07-24-2011, 02:27 PM
I'm torn on this issue. While I would LOVE to see things like anal, DP, fisting, peeing/pooing/squirting NOT be part of a freechat room...I'm still on the fence about normal masturbation. Probably because I'd be a hypocrite if I said that I wasn't because I DO do hitatchi or vibrator shows a few times a week. Do I NEED to? Well, if I looked at it, probably not. I made $900 last nite in my free chat in tips alone before I even started a countdown for a cum show. But do I think that doing them benefits me? I'd say yes. It exposes me to all of the hundreds of guys who join my room as soon as the toy comes out, which leads to future customers...doing one cum show instead of 18 privates keeps my body and vagina healthier and happier. And opting to do one cum show instead of a bunch of privates keeps me in my freechat room where I ultimately have way more fun because I LOVE interacting with my boys and honestly if I were being taken private every 15 minutes, they wouldn't get the interaction from me that they so greatly deserve, and that would make me sad. My time on MFC wouldn't even be close to the same if I had to rely on privates and I'd be willing to bet that I'd wind up losing most of my income because 90% of my tips come from my biggest fans who love seeing me smile, enjoy my interaction and personality and tip for nothing...I'd say 10% comes from countdowns for my nudeshows. So yeah...doing away with free shows would ultimately hurt me because I know I'd hate having to go private all the time and missing my boys, and missing out on more potential income just being in freechat hanging out and having a good time....but on the flipside, I DO see the arguments about doing away with hardcore stuff in freechat. Maybe the rules just need to be more strictly enforced? Is there no middle ground? Can't there be a compromise? Like say, no more of the super hardcore or illegal shiz at ALL ...but masturbation is allowed as long as its tame? I don't know...wishful thinking...
SybilVain
07-24-2011, 02:50 PM
since when are pictures of kids are allowed on mfc profile? I saw it and was like wtf!!! Or did i miss a memo?
wtf?! /:o
BlankStare
07-24-2011, 04:18 PM
First off, I said raped, pimped.. whatever you would like to call it.. yea, that's exactly what's happening. It doesn't cost 60% of all proceeds to pay for traffic, servers, and lawyers ::)
So, let's break down some math.. If Jane makes $200/day as her cut.. the site is making $600. Let's imagine for a moment that there are at least 40 other women on said site per day that make the same amount or maybe even more than Jane.. The site has made $24,000 that day just off of those few girls making $200 or more... let alone the money the money they make off of the lower ladder.
So, let's round it up to about $30,000 PER DAY for the site. That is $210,000 a week........ lol.
Go for it.. take the right now approach... just don't say nobody told you so when your earnings start to deplete, or when you start having less.. and less say about your money. Or when you have to start doing more for it!
BlankStare
07-24-2011, 04:50 PM
I do want to point out that I do understand you other ladies as well. I get the idea that you get to a certain amount of money before doing anything in the room, so therefore the show is not actually free.. but here is my problem..
All of us are worth getting paid by each and every person that wants to see us naked. If a guy steals your show and posts it somewhere.. okay.. it sucks.. and it's even more horrible when the site you work for does it, -but- like we all know.. the men usually pay for the live interaction. I'm sorry, but yes, the site should enforce it's own rules. We have to follow rules every where else in our lives, that includes rules on how we make our money. Women in this industry are very divided when they should be a collective. If you wanted even more money... you could get it.
Niko-n-Justine
07-24-2011, 05:02 PM
First off, I said raped, pimped.. whatever you would like to call it.. yea, that's exactly what's happening. It doesn't cost 60% of all proceeds to pay for traffic, servers, and lawyers ::)
So, let's break down some math.. If Jane makes $200/day as her cut.. the site is making $600. Let's imagine for a moment that there are at least 40 other women on said site per day that make the same amount or maybe even more than Jane.. The site has made $24,000 that day just off of those few girls making $200 or more... let alone the money the money they make off of the lower ladder.
So, let's round it up to about $30,000 PER DAY for the site. That is $210,000 a week........ lol.
Go for it.. take the right now approach... just don't say nobody told you so when your earnings start to deplete, or when you start having less.. and less say about your money. Or when you have to start doing more for it!
Ummm, first off, not sure what site you are talking about, but MFC gets 50% max. Your analogy that Jane is making $200 and the site is making $600 is WAY off. In truth, at most the site is making $200 and Jane is making $200. But actually, the number is not even that... because of the discounts for large purchases, the site is making significantly less than $200... it's making closer to $150 to $180 dollars BEFORE THE HUGE EXPENSES.
Secondly, you have no idea how much bandwidth and servers cost. A single Dell web-worthy server (which I happen to own one of for my own purposes) costs nearly $100,000 and that doesn't count the minimum T3 to run just a few of those servers which runs in the TENS of THOUSANDS a month.
Bandwidth is VERY VERY VERY expensive especially when you are dealing with the amount of traffic that MFC has to deal with.
And that doesn't even include advertising, promotion, trade shows, attorney fees, employee salaries (yes, it takes marketing people, web people, server administrators, IT guys, office personnel, secretaries, assistants, etc, etc).
My father before he passed away wholly owned and operated a small studio in California for B-horror movies and other small big screen ventures, and the amount of money it takes to do such is unfathomable.
I applaud you girls for wanting to start your own cam site, it's a great idea. But if you intend on promising girls for that say, 60% of revenues, then you will be sued and ran out of business in less than 6 months. You have no idea how expensive owning a real company is.
I'm not talking AVON sales here, I'm talking expenses you've never even imagined, and I can promise you it's gonna cost a lot more than $100 per investor times 100 girls. You better raise at least $500,000 in capital before even thinking about partaking in such a venture, and in all honesty, that's not even enough.
So I say, all you girls, throw your hard earned dollars into it--if you can afford to waste that $100 that will absolutely positively be a wasted investment because it's just not enough money--then go for it!
In all reality, 100 girls will need to put up $10,000 each to make the venture work. Nothing short of $1-million total to get this thing working will be sufficient. If you think I'm wrong, then be my guest, do it... but I promise you, you will all lose every dime you put into it.
I'm not a lame brained cam girl, I'm a business major who was raised in the "business". You girls are in for a rude awakening...
BlankStare
07-24-2011, 06:47 PM
Ummm, first off, not sure what site you are talking about, but MFC gets 50% max. Your analogy that Jane is making $200 and the site is making $600 is WAY off. In truth, at most the site is making $200 and Jane is making $200. But actually, the number is not even that... because of the discounts for large purchases, the site is making significantly less than $200... it's making closer to $150 to $180 dollars BEFORE THE HUGE EXPENSES.
Secondly, you have no idea how much bandwidth and servers cost. A single Dell web-worthy server (which I happen to own one of for my own purposes) costs nearly $100,000 and that doesn't count the minimum T3 to run just a few of those servers which runs in the TENS of THOUSANDS a month.
Bandwidth is VERY VERY VERY expensive especially when you are dealing with the amount of traffic that MFC has to deal with.
And that doesn't even include advertising, promotion, trade shows, attorney fees, employee salaries (yes, it takes marketing people, web people, server administrators, IT guys, office personnel, secretaries, assistants, etc, etc).
My father before he passed away wholly owned and operated a small studio in California for B-horror movies and other small big screen ventures, and the amount of money it takes to do such is unfathomable.
I applaud you girls for wanting to start your own cam site, it's a great idea. But if you intend on promising girls for that say, 60% of revenues, then you will be sued and ran out of business in less than 6 months. You have no idea how expensive owning a real company is.
I'm not talking AVON sales here, I'm talking expenses you've never even imagined, and I can promise you it's gonna cost a lot more than $100 per investor times 100 girls. You better raise at least $500,000 in capital before even thinking about partaking in such a venture, and in all honesty, that's not even enough.
So I say, all you girls, throw your hard earned dollars into it--if you can afford to waste that $100 that will absolutely positively be a wasted investment because it's just not enough money--then go for it!
In all reality, 100 girls will need to put up $10,000 each to make the venture work. Nothing short of $1-million total to get this thing working will be sufficient. If you think I'm wrong, then be my guest, do it... but I promise you, you will all lose every dime you put into it.
I'm not a lame brained cam girl, I'm a business major who was raised in the "business". You girls are in for a rude awakening...
I forgot about MFC being over 50%.. at least they have that much- shit. But you're still taking away from the whole concept of other girls that sell themselves out for practically nothing and are constantly breaking the rules, and the site allowing the rules to be broken... and disgustingly so.
Servers are expensive.. but it's pretty much a one time buy, and when you are making about quarter mil or more a week.. then that's okay. Bandwidth is also expensive, and I am QUITE aware of how much a T3 line costs per month ;)
So, in a month, max they are paying maybe 50K?
Out of over a million dollars.. for bandwidth. That still leaves 950K.
Probably about 300K goes out to employees (about 60K per week in office/tech support), lawyers (as big business like this usually hires a firm to handle all their problems, and will pay a flat fee per month), and of course, advertising.. which does not cost tens of thousands of dollars per month.
This brings us down to 650K per month which is basically profit..numbers are probably higher than this, with the way everyone says they are banking. But definitely the range of 300K-500K per month is going to someone.
The cost of starting your own cam company with your own servers and t3 line? Maybe not at first. But you build yourself up... the same way the rest of them did.
Marleysade
07-24-2011, 07:12 PM
Im tired of arguing about this!! Lets stick to the issue..most of us wants to see a change or this thread wouldnt be made....So please ladies if you agree that MFC should Follow their OWN rules, speak your voice!
Niko-n-Justine
07-24-2011, 07:16 PM
I forgot about MFC being over 50%.. at least they have that much- shit. But you're still taking away from the whole concept of other girls that sell themselves out for practically nothing and are constantly breaking the rules, and the site allowing the rules to be broken... and disgustingly so.
Servers are expensive.. but it's pretty much a one time buy, and when you are making about quarter mil or more a week.. then that's okay. Bandwidth is also expensive, and I am QUITE aware of how much a T3 line costs per month ;)
So, in a month, max they are paying maybe 50K?
Out of over a million dollars.. for bandwidth. That still leaves 950K.
Probably about 300K goes out to employees (about 60K per week in office/tech support), lawyers (as big business like this usually hires a firm to handle all their problems, and will pay a flat fee per month), and of course, advertising.. which does not cost tens of thousands of dollars per month.
This brings us down to 650K per month which is basically profit..numbers are probably higher than this, with the way everyone says they are banking. But definitely the range of 300K-500K per month is going to someone.
The cost of starting your own cam company with your own servers and t3 line? Maybe not at first. But you build yourself up... the same way the rest of them did.
No, you don't understand, servers are not a one-time buy. To get about 500 customers on at once, it takes about $100,000 per server. 500 customers is NOTHING... to make money, you need about 50,000 customers online at any given time (to divide between all of the girls) and that means the servers alone are way more than a small investment can afford.
Furthermore, let's just say your $650k in profits for Leo per month is correct... lets just say that's how much MFC clears in a month. How many models are active on MFC per month? Say... 3000? That means Leo actually only makes about $325 per model, per month.
The average model on MFC makes around $1700 per month. Leo is only making $325 for each of those models on average. So he is actually only making about 19% per model. That's not much hun.
That's FAR FAR FAR from the amount all of the other sites are making on their models. So instead of attacking the other sites that are making 50% to 60% CLEAR and free on their models, we are gonna attack the site that profits less than 20% on it's models?
Yeah, something isn't right with that picture. Someone somewhere has a personal beef with Leo... which is fine, but let's keep it real.
Bambalina said that with an investment of $100 from only 100 girls, she could take on the camming world... she's either dishonest or she didn't do due diligence. We are not stupid cam girls, we are empowered women who collectively hustle men with doctorates out of hundreds of thousands of dollars per day.
We all know good and well that $10,000 ain't shit... and it sure as hell won't start a camming company. It's not enough money. Just do the research yourself, go get a quote on a T3... get a quote on multiple web worthy servers that can host tens of thousands of men at one time. go to career builder and find out how much you'll have to pay server administrators, IT guys, assistants, marketing people, etc etc....
It's a multi-million dollar endeavor. And anyone who tells you that you can do it for $10,000 is either clueless or dishonest. Don't waste your money on a get rich quick scheme. There is no such thing. It takes a hell of a lot of money to make money, not a dream a pocket full of change.
I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, I just don't want to see good women waste their money on a pipe dream... that's not fair to any of you.
If an investor comes to you with the same idea, and proposes the truth, that it takes millions to create a cam company and be successful, please sign up, I'll be right behind you. I would love to be apart of such a dream.
That's the truth. If you put your money in a fantasy, don't be upset when you realize that it's all gone. That's the way life works. $10,000 is shit money wise... it means nothing.
laurielegs
07-24-2011, 07:41 PM
The cost of starting your own cam company with your own servers and t3 line? Maybe not at first. But you build yourself up... the same way the rest of them did.
Yeah somehow I doubt all of them started out big with a huge amount of bandwidth and servers. Over time they likely added that as capacity increased.
BlankStare
07-24-2011, 08:17 PM
No, you don't understand, servers are not a one-time buy. To get about 500 customers on at once, it takes about $100,000 per server. 500 customers is NOTHING... to make money, you need about 50,000 customers online at any given time (to divide between all of the girls) and that means the servers alone are way more than a small investment can afford.
Furthermore, let's just say your $650k in profits for Leo per month is correct... lets just say that's how much MFC clears in a month. How many models are active on MFC per month? Say... 3000? That means Leo actually only makes about $325 per model, per month.
The average model on MFC makes around $1700 per month. Leo is only making $325 for each of those models on average. So he is actually only making about 19% per model. That's not much hun.
That's FAR FAR FAR from the amount all of the other sites are making on their models. So instead of attacking the other sites that are making 50% to 60% CLEAR and free on their models, we are gonna attack the site that profits less than 20% on it's models?
Yeah, something isn't right with that picture. Someone somewhere has a personal beef with Leo... which is fine, but let's keep it real.
Bambalina said that with an investment of $100 from only 100 girls, she could take on the camming world... she's either dishonest or she didn't do due diligence. We are not stupid cam girls, we are empowered women who collectively hustle men with doctorates out of hundreds of thousands of dollars per day.
We all know good and well that $10,000 ain't shit... and it sure as hell won't start a camming company. It's not enough money. Just do the research yourself, go get a quote on a T3... get a quote on multiple web worthy servers that can host tens of thousands of men at one time. go to career builder and find out how much you'll have to pay server administrators, IT guys, assistants, marketing people, etc etc....
It's a multi-million dollar endeavor. And anyone who tells you that you can do it for $10,000 is either clueless or dishonest. Don't waste your money on a get rich quick scheme. There is no such thing. It takes a hell of a lot of money to make money, not a dream a pocket full of change.
I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, I just don't want to see good women waste their money on a pipe dream... that's not fair to any of you.
If an investor comes to you with the same idea, and proposes the truth, that it takes millions to create a cam company and be successful, please sign up, I'll be right behind you. I would love to be apart of such a dream.
That's the truth. If you put your money in a fantasy, don't be upset when you realize that it's all gone. That's the way life works. $10,000 is shit money wise... it means nothing.
You can rent servers. I think I said that in my last post.. ? Excuse me if I didn't.
mfc says the model makes 'on average' 61%..
You are saying the average model gets $1700/month and there are 3,000 active girls/month.. let's just round that out and down a little..
$2000/month x 2000 active girls = $4 million per month in revenue.. split 50/50 is 2 million per month in revenue... even at 40/60 (which is the consensus according to MFC) is still 1.6mil per month (30/70 would be 1.2mil) .. where there is still a profit of 300K-500K/month at any given time after bills.
AF camgirl
07-25-2011, 12:54 AM
I'm signing bc I dont do shows in public for numerous viewers to watch for free, and i'm tired of the few men who do stop by my room barking orders at me and telling me i wont succeed bc the model next to me is doing squirt in free and i wont show my pussy. Im glad that some of you are happy doing shows for views who arent paying, but at the peak of your rooms fullness, would you still be making more if each person had to pay .50¢ to view your 10min show? Or if one is paying $4 and all the rest are paying to spy? And do you meet you goal at the drop of a hat? You claim to make more then you would in a 10 min private, but i dont see you factoring in the time you spend hustling to reach your show goal. I dont know details, but the math seems flawed.
brownsugardoll
07-25-2011, 01:26 AM
Signed!
In my opinion, MFC should add feature for tip goal countdown similar to Streamate offers to the cam models doing countdown tip goal and once the goal reach only the tippers can watch the show in group mode. Freeloaders shouldn't be rewarded by tippers that contribute to the goal to watch along in public. Freeloaders deserve only to see the white screen box stating the model in group and if want join in pay up :).
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 04:33 AM
Wow, ladies! This shit went viral since last I was here. How interesting...
What I see, is a fundamental agreement with my principles and statements about "Free Shows" destroying camming.
Now, let me first defend my use of the words FREE SHOWS.
When I began in the world of camming, every person who saw me naked averaged paying me several dollars per minute. EVERY person AVERAGED SEVERAL DOLLARS....Per Minute.
Making $2000 in a week was not hard at all. MOST of the girls I know did.
So, if you do a free show, where you charged 3000 tokens and made your $150, and you claim that makes it not "Free"..You ARE technically correct. But if there are an average of 1000 men watching these free shows, and if we factor in the Candy Canes and the other top MFC women who do them, that is reasonable...If 5-10 men paid for the show, which is common, then that means 10 men paid, and 990 got a FREE show. So would you then call that, in the world of math, a PAID show which required admission to be paid? Or a free show supported by a few generous men? 990 out of 1000 got to see it for free...it's a fucking FREE SHOW. We can also look at the math and see that I averaged several dollars per minute. But in this scenario each man who saw you fuck yourself averaged 15 cents for a whole show (you use 10 minutes as the time of that show...) so 1.5 cents per minute per man...Sound like more or less FREE to me. Since they could scrounge their 1.5 cents off the sidewalk.
So, I will continue to call them free shows, because for all those who are hurt by them, that is what they are. Shows where all those 990 guys got to cum free and NOT pay the girls who don't do FREE SHOWS.
So that gets covered first.
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Secondly, lets look at Choice.
In a city with ONE cable company that is awarded a franchise and there is a monopoly, one can choose to pay the exorbitant cable bill, or not have cable. Is that fair? Nope...
Is that a free market? Nope...
So, we have 3 big cam companies where you can ostensibly make a shitload of money. And all three have horrendous anti-camgirl practices. So, we can either sign their horrific contracts, or not work for the big camsites and settle for less...this is your FREE MARKET, and it works so well...NOT!
We also have 3 companies that pay their models MUCH less than they ought to or are able to.
And since they control the traffic and the market, you can suck it up or fuck off...
And this is what is being passed off as CHOICE in this thread...You can choose not to sign, you can choose to work for indy cam sites that thusfar have exposed their customer data and don't do SHIT for promotion...or you can quit camming...those are all such VIABLE choices...why would we bitch and moan?
Must be we're jealous. Easy argument to throw out...too bad it makes NO sense.
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But in the end, those arguments actually are both about throwing off the real discussion. They both make me suspect the proponents of those arguments of being shills, stupid, or having an axe to grind or hidden agenda. Since the reality is this...
MFC offers a contract which we sign. That contract strictly requires us to follow certain rules and regulations about what will and will not happen in shows. In other words, we give our word we will NOT do free shows that include explicit genitalia, masturbation, and penetration. But on the converse side, in a very real way, MFC is promising US that we will NOT have to compete with that type of show.
When we arrive at the REALITY of MFC and start doing shows we immediately see it is VERY VERY different.
So in other words, MFC asks us to lie, or have an unfair competitive disadvantage in signing the contract, while at the same time lies to us about what we should expect as models on their site...all in a legally binding contract.
And we're jealous whiners if we don't like that. Does anyone see how ridiculous this thread really is? I mean, if the people who are arguing, aren't shills for MFC and the cam companies, then they are simpletons of the lowest caliber and truly not worth arguing with.
I cannot imagine someone saying seriously that they cannot perceive that FREE SHOWS, where thousands of potential customers, guys who USED to pay ME, are now watching for free and NOT paying ANY of you...is not BAD BAD BAD for the industry....It's like a surreal film or something.
There IS NO ARGUMENT.
This is a silly thread that was purposefully derailed...why? Because it's not in someone's interests for us to succeed with a collective camsite...it's not in someone's interest to have free shows stop on MFC.
And I BET that person is afraid of me/us going to the news and the law to make this happen. But not for the reasons presented.
Pfft...read between the lines ladies...
B
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 05:23 AM
Ok, Now to Niko-n-Justine.
I assert here YOU are a liar. Or a shill. Or just plain not very smart.
Let's start with the high end dell server that will run a camsite costing $100,000....
Exhibit A:
Also, go here:
Premium 7 would do nicely for a starting cam site, even up to being pretty bigbox, and only $500 per month..IMAGINE. No T3 necessary for the first year at least.
OR
Plan Hybrid 3 would do QUITE nicely for the first 6 months of service, and once one outgrew it, one could also afford to move up.
So, as far as start-up costs...you jumped from $500,000 to $1MILLION...But I can get the scripts written for under $5k and the hosting is $500 MAX, and I am working on getting us a lawyer as a partner, so the legal fees are absorbed, and the promotion will be NOTHING compared to a site which doesn't have 100 gorgeous women running it...
So your claims are baseless....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now lets look at the legal claims of this person. That it is legal in the United states to do pornographic shows for minors. That is what is being said. Because COPA was struck down, that there are NO LAWS in ANY jurisdiction that make performing pornographic acts for minors illegal. Is that HONESTLY what you are contending?
Secondarily, ladies, you are listening to and reading this stuff, and I'm ashamed of ALL of you.
Because NO-ONE has said "It doesn't even fucking MATTER if it is illegal, it is fucking WRONG to not care if CHILDREN are watching you ram a fucking dildo into yourself."
Do you ladies who do shows in free not realize that MANY of your "guests" are damn KIDS...And Niko-n-Justine can go on and on about parental responsibility all they want, but in the end, if you do these shows you are knowingly doing masturbation and insertion shows in a place which is KNOWN to be frequented by kids and teens, and which does NOTHING to stop them getting in. Because in the end MANY parents aren't responsible, and the kids are latchkey and the parents aren't home, and these kids are exploring the web and you are providing damn sybian/hitachi/fuck machine/full lesbian show for them. It IS illegal...but even if it weren't, is that who you are? Really? And do you think MFC should have the right to do that???
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Next...If 2% of the guys watching these "paid shows in free chat" for FREE would be tippers if those shows weren't available and 10 shows of 1000 viewers are done per day...this equates to 200 tippers per day GONE. I think the number is more like 10% personally...and I think the number of guys who just leave after whacking it to a free show is MUCH higher, since there are WAY more than 10 free masturbation shows per day on MFC and often MORE than 1000 guys in the show...that is what the fucking LOUNGE is FOR.
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Lastly, for now...the arguments you make about people being jealous, free speech, and freedom of expression, and so on, fall really flat when you try to curtail my accessing the free press with my free speech and curtail my freedom of expression by telling me to more or less shut up and quit bitching...bitching is protected speech...So put that in your FREE pipe and smoke it...
Also, your arguments are all BS, because none of them include a company that signs a contract, and requires a signature, on a contract it is already breaching as it is being signed.
Are you saying workers and independent contractors should NOT have the right to demand that the contracted terms of employment are stuck to? That to demand that a company sticks to it;s word with workers is SOCIALIST or RIGHT WING (hilarious, since those two are opposites).
Many claim to organize labor and make things more fair is socialist..are you one of those who believes all unions are socialist and should be busted up?
Because the way I see it, you have NO LEG TO STAND ON.
A company has a contract and stated rules and doesn't follow them, and it is detrimental to some, and you say they shouldn't complain. Even if that company is breaking the law, and breaching legal agreements and harming ladies, they should just shut up?
You are saying I should shut up and I'm jealous and girls shouldn't give me a dime and I'm scary for wanting to go the news and so on...seems like a personal attack to me...what the fuck did I ever do to you?
That you would go so far as to lie to these women. $100,000 for decent server...PUH-LEEZE!
That we Need a T3 to START a camsite.
That we need Half the shit you talk about to START a camsite....
That's all ridiculous.
Maybe you know nothing and aren't actually malevolent, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Tell us more about how it is a Million to start a cam site....Pfft...please...
B
Niko-n-Justine
07-25-2011, 05:33 AM
MFC offers a contract which we sign. That contract strictly requires us to follow certain rules and regulations about what will and will not happen in shows. In other words, we give our word we will NOT do free shows that include explicit genitalia, masturbation, and penetration. But on the converse side, in a very real way, MFC is promising US that we will NOT have to compete with that type of show.
When we arrive at the REALITY of MFC and start doing shows we immediately see it is VERY VERY different.
So in other words, MFC asks us to lie, or have an unfair competitive disadvantage in signing the contract, while at the same time lies to us about what we should expect as models on their site...all in a legally binding contract.
And we're jealous whiners if we don't like that. Does anyone see how ridiculous this thread really is? I mean, if the people who are arguing, aren't shills for MFC and the cam companies, then they are simpletons of the lowest caliber and truly not worth arguing with.
I cannot imagine someone saying seriously that they cannot perceive that FREE SHOWS, where thousands of potential customers, guys who USED to pay ME, are now watching for free and NOT paying ANY of you...is not BAD BAD BAD for the industry....It's like a surreal film or something.
There IS NO ARGUMENT.
This is a silly thread that was purposefully derailed...why? Because it's not in someone's interests for us to succeed with a collective camsite...it's not in someone's interest to have free shows stop on MFC.
And I BET that person is afraid of me/us going to the news and the law to make this happen. But not for the reasons presented.
Pfft...read between the lines ladies...
B
First and foremost, as you so stated prior, MFC's contract isn't worth the paper its written on and wouldn't hold up in court. Therefore, what the contract does or doesn't state it irrelevant.
More importantly ma'am, this thread was NOT derailed. They were opinions given that neither you nor those in your camp held. That's the way these forums work. One person gives and opinion, another person gives another, and so on and so forth.
And like I said before, when a person such as yourself wants to "expose" MFC to the mass media, YOU are putting those women in danger. MOST WOMEN ON MFC DO NOT WANT TO BE EXPOSED IN THEIR PROFESSION. And I mean EVEN THE ONES WHO FOLLOW THE RULES AS YOU SEE THEM.
You want to create your own cam site? DO IT. But if your idea is to build yourself up while tearing something else (and other people) down, I think it just makes you look pathetic.
Exposing Leo means exposing honest, hard working girls who do NOTHING wrong everyday. And this isn't about me mind you--I don't give a shit who knows what I do. Outside of the crazy stalker types, being outed really means nothing to me. I intend on being in the adult industry or the rest of my life.
But for the rest of girls who are trying to make money without their families, significant others, co-workers, friends, etc, finding out what they do... I feel bad for them that someone like you, who should get that, is so self-centered that you will run over anyone to further yourself.
The truth is, you are no different than Leo or any of the other people who own cam sites. It's do or die, and fuck anyone who gets in your way!
Totally pathetic.
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 05:40 AM
"And that doesn't even include advertising, promotion, trade shows, attorney fees, employee salaries (yes, it takes marketing people, web people, server administrators, IT guys, office personnel, secretaries, assistants, etc, etc)".
Um, I've read SM...bigger than MFC actually, has 20 employees. total, and many of them are family and friends of the Owner<s>. 20 employees getting say 3k-5k per month average, 60-100k and SM has an average of about 800 models online. And if they bank even $20 an hour average...$384,000 per day. MFC is equivalent....in man ways except keeps less, but either way the whole company is paid for in ONE DAY.
And more than half those employees you listed are under ONE fee...HOSTING.
And I betcha MFC doesn;t have a marketing department, and yer etc. etc. is hilarious...you ran out of stuff to list and threw in etc. etc. which means you have many more people that you can list that work for MFC, when you probably have either no idea of the structure of MFC internally, OR you KNOW the structure because you're a shill...and know that what you're saying is complete and utter nonsense.
Web sites, even BIG porn sites generally average UNDER 20 employees, and you'd be surprised how many pretty darn big sites have like 8 employees.
So. quit blowing smoke and BSing....
B
Amy Lee
07-25-2011, 05:48 AM
Do you really think MFc is going to listen to some online petition.
Good point...I wonder if they will...
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 05:49 AM
First and foremost, as you so stated prior, MFC's contract isn't worth the paper its written on and wouldn't hold up in court. Therefore, what the contract does or doesn't state it irrelevant.
More importantly ma'am, this thread was NOT derailed. They were opinions given that neither you nor those in your camp held. That's the way these forums work. One person gives and opinion, another person gives another, and so on and so forth.
And like I said before, when a person such as yourself wants to "expose" MFC to the mass media, YOU are putting those women in danger. MOST WOMEN ON MFC DO NOT WANT TO BE EXPOSED IN THEIR PROFESSION. And I mean EVEN THE ONES WHO FOLLOW THE RULES AS YOU SEE THEM.
You want to create your own cam site? DO IT. But if your idea is to build yourself up while tearing something else (and other people) down, I think it just makes you look pathetic.
Exposing Leo means exposing honest, hard working girls who do NOTHING wrong everyday. And this isn't about me mind you--I don't give a shit who knows what I do. Outside of the crazy stalker types, being outed really means nothing to me. I intend on being in the adult industry or the rest of my life.
But for the rest of girls who are trying to make money without their families, significant others, co-workers, friends, etc, finding out what they do... I feel bad for them that someone like you, who should get that, is so self-centered that you will run over anyone to further yourself.
The truth is, you are no different than Leo or any of the other people who own cam sites. It's do or die, and fuck anyone who gets in your way!
Totally pathetic.
Yah, because if 60 minutes did an expose on MFC, they would out camgirls...GET REAL...they would go after Leo and you damn well know it.
If anyone believes anything you say I would be really surprised.
So...for the record.
It would be illegal to expose the names of camgrls in the public media and would SERIOUSLY open up CBS to HUGE lawsuits for recklessly endangering the lives of camgirls...So it would absolutely NOT happen.
Secondly, the story would be about the minors watching webcam shows.
Thirdly, they would only be exposed if LEO gave out the real names and such...are you saying he would do that???
Your argument is once again not only weak, but seems like an outright fabrication, and designed to denigrate me. Continue...have at it.
I would say for me, I would rather avoid the ban hammer that will come down soon for all this drama that is starting now, and I will step back until there is something substantial to argue.
B
BrownFox
07-25-2011, 06:05 AM
It would be illegal to expose the names of camgrls in the public media and would SERIOUSLY open up CBS to HUGE lawsuits for recklessly endangering the lives of camgirls...So it would absolutely NOT happen.
Secondly, the story would be about the minors watching webcam shows.
OMG, good point about endangering the lives of cam girls. Could you imagine having your photo and REAL name revealed on the news? :O That would be some FUCKED up shit.
BrownFox
07-25-2011, 06:20 AM
Signed!
In my opinion, MFC should add feature for tip goal countdown similar to Streamate offers to the cam models doing countdown tip goal and once the goal reach only the tippers can watch the show in group mode. Freeloaders shouldn't be rewarded by tippers that contribute to the goal to watch along in public. Freeloaders deserve only to see the white screen box stating the model in group and if want join in pay up :).
I agree! Every time some fuckin' guy in public chat says "How much for a toy show?" I tell them that they either need to join me in group (it's freakin 10 tokens per minute, which is mad cheap!) or join me in private, because I require that EVERY person watching me fuck a dildo needs to be paying for it. I'm not gonna have one poor guy doing all the tipping while a bunch of freeloaders watch me cum while barking orders at me.
So yes, that'd be terrific if they did like Stremate and ONLY had the guys who paid get to see the toy show. Guests, basics, and non-tipping premiums should only be seeing a white screen or whatever. None of this "Mmmm, I just came, bb" bullshit from the freeloaders.
Niko-n-Justine
07-25-2011, 06:37 AM
Really? You mean like othe scandals in history? Schwarzeneger, Blagojevich, Clinton, Weiner, Tiger Woods... of course you never saw the girls involved with those scandals (rolls eyes). Its not like its hard for their research teams can't logon to MFC and seek the girls out.. I'm sure their people have never done such a thing. ;)
BrownFox
07-25-2011, 06:42 AM
Was this in response to my post???
Sam38g
07-25-2011, 06:47 AM
Ya'll forget how much the processing fee is for adult. It isn't the normal 3 to 5% but it is 15 to 25%. If you have a certain amount of chargebacks or fraud then the acct gets closed down.
Then consider all the money laundering coming out of Europe from the russian mob. It is a huge scam. More than Ya'll think. I know one start up cam site from 3 years ago stating hundred of thousands in charge backs due to stolen credit card in masses.
SM & MFC does NOT pass those charges onto us.
I dont break the rules or the laws when I cam. And yet I still make money, so what another model does is up to her. Men can bitch all day long how another gal is fucking herself with 2 dildos in her ass. If they liked it so much how come they are in my room and NOT hers?
I just tell them one of my fan's tipped me 1000 tkns, why dont you. I do NOT feel pressure from stupid request mainly made by the freeloaders. I just ban them. If more models banned freeloaders and rude mysogenistic pigs then maybe we would have less problems
Sam
Africandoll
07-25-2011, 07:32 AM
MFC wont change for a bunch of pissed off models, they will replace your ass or forget you exist, especially if you are not a top model
Marleysade
07-25-2011, 08:12 AM
If there is enough of us they will
Marleysade
07-25-2011, 08:20 AM
Yah, because if 60 minutes did an expose on MFC, they would out camgirls...GET REAL...they would go after Leo and you damn well know it.
If anyone believes anything you say I would be really surprised.
So...for the record.
It would be illegal to expose the names of camgrls in the public media and would SERIOUSLY open up CBS to HUGE lawsuits for recklessly endangering the lives of camgirls...So it would absolutely NOT happen.
Secondly, the story would be about the minors watching webcam shows.
Thirdly, they would only be exposed if LEO gave out the real names and such...are you saying he would do that???
Your argument is once again not only weak, but seems like an outright fabrication, and designed to denigrate me. Continue...have at it.
I would say for me, I would rather avoid the ban hammer that will come down soon for all this drama that is starting now, and I will step back until there is something substantial to argue.
B
Thank you for trying to shut this girl up babe! But ignorance is ingorance and lets just stick ti the issue and do something about this how many people do we signed?
Africandoll
07-25-2011, 08:28 AM
enough? seriously? unless you get 10000 models you wont get jack squat??, who wants to lose their money to be in a fucking petition, keep dreaming seriously
BlankStare
07-25-2011, 10:30 AM
Ya'll forget how much the processing fee is for adult. It isn't the normal 3 to 5% but it is 15 to 25%. If you have a certain amount of chargebacks or fraud then the acct gets closed down.
Then consider all the money laundering coming out of Europe from the russian mob. It is a huge scam. More than Ya'll think. I know one start up cam site from 3 years ago stating hundred of thousands in charge backs due to stolen credit card in masses.
SM & MFC does NOT pass those charges onto us.
I dont break the rules or the laws when I cam. And yet I still make money, so what another model does is up to her. Men can bitch all day long how another gal is fucking herself with 2 dildos in her ass. If they liked it so much how come they are in my room and NOT hers?
I just tell them one of my fan's tipped me 1000 tkns, why dont you. I do NOT feel pressure from stupid request mainly made by the freeloaders. I just ban them. If more models banned freeloaders and rude mysogenistic pigs then maybe we would have less problems
Sam
:sigh: I don't know about MFC, but streamate only allows the customer a $100/day limit at first. So, they are pretty much protecting their asses and ours from charge backs.. but I am sure that MFC, IMLive, and any other large cam company, is well-equipped with anti-money laundering software, and has some pretty good tactics in place to make sure it stays as low as possible..... because it's required by law, and they have to... I just think IMLive is highly scandalous and issues false charge backs.
Also, beings that MFC and Streamate are businesses that are located in a so-called 'tax haven' .. you have no idea what banking structure they are using.
Lastly- when people money launder it is usually to move cash money around to make it look legitimate/to evade taxes. I don't think they would be wasting time, or money, by spending a few hundred thousand dollars watching cam girls... maybe small-time credit card thieves; but definitely not money-launderers.
laurielegs
07-25-2011, 11:35 AM
This is one of the best most fascinating discussions I've seen in a long time. I wish we could all calm down a bit and quit attacking each other though.
JoJoX
07-25-2011, 03:17 PM
alot of girls bank on MFC and bring in some serious cash and thats all that matters to anyone behind the scenes.
besides, look at the top girls- crazysysy, tattgoddess, empruss69 etc etc...THEY arent breaking any rules, they hardly show anything in public yet they are banking. now, look on page 3 where there are plenty of girls breaking the rules- they are obviously making $50 a day.
yeah, it might of changed camming a bit but maybe we should change our game to go along with it. there were times where women werent able to vote, now we are spreading pussy on cam and proud of it. the point is, times are changing we cant help it, so switch up the game.
camming and being paid for it depends on how entertaining you are, not depending on how far you can stick that 20" dildo up your ass. so to the girls who do outrageous things are free, thats their problem. bottom line.
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 04:10 PM
Ya'll forget how much the processing fee is for adult. It isn't the normal 3 to 5% but it is 15 to 25%. If you have a certain amount of chargebacks or fraud then the acct gets closed down.
Zombaio=8.9% and for a site like MFC 4.9%...
So....Wrong.
Then consider all the money laundering coming out of Europe from the russian mob. It is a huge scam. More than Ya'll think. I know one start up cam site from 3 years ago stating hundred of thousands in charge backs due to stolen credit card in masses.
If you lay down with pigs, you get up dirty. That is a side effect of being so greedy you work with studios and don;t care about female trafficking and so on. Another reason you should be ashamed to work for these people.
SM & MFC does NOT pass those charges onto us.
SM and MFC do not have the hundreds of thousands in chargebacks. Prove they do. Because it is my knowledge that the deals they have in place with studios prevent it and keep chargebacks to a very low minimum.
I dont break the rules or the laws when I cam. And yet I still make money, so what another model does is up to her. Men can bitch all day long how another gal is fucking herself with 2 dildos in her ass. If they liked it so much how come they are in my room and NOT hers?
If you are unable to see how much easier and how much more money you could make if women were forced to follow the written rules and adhere to the terms of their contract, then you lose and there is nothing else that can be said.
It isn't up to the other models. If they break contracted rules, the other models have a right and responsibility to complain and fix their camming environment.
I have been in camming a long time, and I know how it has dropped, and I am not a stupid woman and I can see WHY. Same as the tube sites destroyed the Membership Site money, MFC Free shows will destroy camming as we know it. Because as SM shows with their NEW RULES, it will spread and spread if something isn't done to stop it.
I just tell them one of my fan's tipped me 1000 tkns, why dont you. I do NOT feel pressure from stupid request mainly made by the freeloaders. I just ban them. If more models banned freeloaders and rude mysogenistic pigs then maybe we would have less problems
Sam
No argument there, maybe there would be less problems. But you know? FOR SURE (not maybe) if all the grls had to follow the rules, there would be more money for everyone.
B
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 04:17 PM
enough? seriously? unless you get 10000 models you wont get jack squat??, who wants to lose their money to be in a fucking petition, keep dreaming seriously
The petition is a warning. It is a warning that if we are not satisfied and keep being ignored, we will make noise elsewhere. Law enforcement, the Media, and whatever is necessary, because we are NOT to dumb to see the writing on the wall which is the destruction of our livelihood for the greed of camsites.
If you think that NO media outlet will take up this story, wait and see. If you think all 50 states attorneys will ignore claims of minors watching shows, wait and see. Because I have worked with MANY MANY girls on MFC (50+ I think) and have seen MANY MANY MANY times where kids come in and even SAY they are 12, or 14, and have to be banned. How many don;t say it???
And if you don't have a problem with working at a place that encourages such behavior, the I feel VERY sorry for you. Minors have no place in a cam site.
B
Niko-n-Justine
07-25-2011, 04:45 PM
The petition is a warning. It is a warning that if we are not satisfied and keep being ignored, we will make noise elsewhere. Law enforcement, the Media, and whatever is necessary, because we are NOT to dumb to see the writing on the wall which is the destruction of our livelihood for the greed of camsites.
If you think that NO media outlet will take up this story, wait and see. If you think all 50 states attorneys will ignore claims of minors watching shows, wait and see. Because I have worked with MANY MANY girls on MFC (50+ I think) and have seen MANY MANY MANY times where kids come in and even SAY they are 12, or 14, and have to be banned. How many don;t say it???
And if you don't have a problem with working at a place that encourages such behavior, the I feel VERY sorry for you. Minors have no place in a cam site.
B
LMAO, that is outrageous! THERE ARE MILLIONS OF FREE SHOWS VIA OTHER PORN SITES ON THE INTERNET.
Are you crusading against xvideos.com, redtube.com, etc etc??
Hell no you aren't, it's not about morals for you, it's about the money, that's it--so don't pretend to be on some moral crusade.
Like you yourself stated before, you are a promoter. You are a spinmeister, hype creator, and pot stirrer. That's what a promoter does.
At the end of the day, it's all about jealousy, envy, and fattening your wallet. Say what you want, but at least be honest about your intentions.
And once again, I'll repeat myself just like you are repeating yourself again--putting women at risk for your personal gain is selfish, and wrong. Your so-called "outing" of MFC absolutely positively will cause media outlets to dig into who the girls are on the site. IT HAPPENS EVERY DAMN TIME IN THIS SORT OF MEDIA INVESTIGATIONS....
And before you call me a liar again, go find me one sex scandal where the girl or girls are still anonymous from the scandal. You ain't gonna find one, because they don't exist.
THE MEDIA ALWAYS OUTS THE GIRLS IN THESE SITUATIONS BECAUSE IT SELLS!
You know that as well as anyone, I'm pretty sure you watch the news as well.
But let's just be honest here, you don't care who gets hurt in this situation because it's all about the money for you.... the rest of the world best get out of the way of you and your money.
Oh yeah and for the record, I don't do public cums shows for "free" or for money.... but I give support to any girl who makes her hustle that way, and I ain't mad at them, I respect their game and I hope they bank everyday of the week.
You see, I actually support these girls making their bank, and I won't profit a dime from it either.
Jealousy and envy will eat you up until there is nothing left--and as long as you worry about everyone else instead of focusing on your own success, you'll continue to be left behind in the dust.
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 05:09 PM
alot of girls bank on MFC and bring in some serious cash and thats all that matters to anyone behind the scenes.
First off let me thank you for a post that doesn't sound like an attack and that is a well reasoned presentation of ideas.
Secondly I think you represent the ideas of MANY girls who won;t get involved to change things. I hope you will see that there are other factors than those you present.
besides, look at the top girls- crazysysy, tattgoddess, empruss69 etc etc...THEY arent breaking any rules, they hardly show anything in public yet they are banking. now, look on page 3 where there are plenty of girls breaking the rules- they are obviously making $50 a day.
Its funny but quote a few of the top girls from foreign countries, and some of the top studio girls, DON'T do public shows. In fact, I see WAY more trouble with the Western Girls.
It is also true what you say, to some degree about page 3. Which is one of the proofs of what I am saying. It started out that poorer studio girls did whatever they had to to compete, since they are beaten and punished and sent home broke if they don't make their quotas and such. MFC and SM completely support that system (SM moreso than MFC to a degree) and thus by working for them, you help them support that, but that is not the topic for today...So...Anyway...The Free Shows practice never moved to the foreign models who BANK too much. It moved to the poorer of OUR (American, Australian, Canadian, Brit) girls, and a few of them went from 260th ranked on MFC, to top 40, and learned that you can bank by completely fucking off the rules and screwing all the girls following the rules. At that time, MFC even made some half-hearted attempts to ban and fine girls...But since the money was rolling in, they didn't try too hard.
Well, it was strange, but just about that time (look it up here on StripperWeb in Otherwork) the complaints of money dropping and it getting harder to make money ROSE dramatically...
Over the next year a LARGE number of models started doing Masturbation/Insertion <M/I> shows. And funny...if you look at the stats, and look at the money and especially look at any forum where camgirls speak, it was at EXACTLY that time that everyone started REALLY talking about the money dropping and being harder to come by.
Now, do you want to argue with this, which is FACT? That money went down as free shows went up?? Why would you want to argue that?
Either way, it is a provable thing. Just go look at the archives here. MFC also, at that time, went from the absolute darling of SW that could do no wrong, to being complained about and treated like an inconprehensible place where making money was almost impossible and you needed a secret key to understand and crack MFC.
Well, I am in the BEST position to know tat is pretty true, because I had girls on MFC 2-3 years ago and have had girls on MFC ever since, So I have watched the difficulty of getting started, the pressure for more and more stuff in free chat increase, and the number of privates and the ease with which they are offered, as well as the number and ratio of tippers to non-tippers STEADILY decrease. All during the time of the "Free Show".
But I also saw the populations of those free show rooms rising and rising, as some of the BIGGEST names on MFC did those shows and sometimes 3 and 4 thousand men would be there....3000 men getting off all at once and spending NO MORE MONEY on MFC.
Tell me that is GOOD for our business and we just have to change our hustle to fix it...those 3 or 4 thousand men had an orgasm and are done. You won;t have a CHANCE to hustle them. It's over. And it happens DAILY. So what the hell do you guys think that does for camming? Thousands and thousands of potential customers cum for free every day from these shows.
This isn't about personal freedom. This isn't about hating on the girls who DO those shows, because I am VERY good friends with a few who do them on this very discussion. I do not judge or condemn them, because I am not a judge. ALL I am saying is that it is in everyone's best interests to stop it. To put the Genie back in the bottle, and it CAN be done because there is a contract that every one of you has a right to sue MFC over. Every one of you has a right to not be forced into an environment where the contract you signed has rules that are FLAUNTED daily by the company. Every one of you has a right to reasonable expectation of protection from minors being exposed to fuck machines and lesbian shows on the site you perform on.
Do you honestly disagree with that???
yeah, it might of changed camming a bit but maybe we should change our game to go along with it. there were times where women werent able to vote, now we are spreading pussy on cam and proud of it. the point is, times are changing we cant help it, so switch up the game.
You cannot change the loss of thousands and thousands of customers per day. It is happening. You cannot change the FACT, that too compete SM is moving closer and closer to the MFC model and once the two big giants do it, LJ will follow and it will be OVER. Because ANY camsite trying to start up will be FORCED to allow anything goes in public chat. And that will be when camming becomes tube sites, where you have to scrounge for every penny.
Argue with me...PLEASE...prove me wrong...Don't just claim it won't happen or that we just need to change our game, because changing you game won't make freeloaders who are cumming free suddenly start spilling money out of their asses. I give you FACTS for why this happening and how it is happening and not ONE PERSON has countered these facts with a factual based argument that proves me in the LEAST bit wrong.
camming and being paid for it depends on how entertaining you are, not depending on how far you can stick that 20" dildo up your ass. so to the girls who do outrageous things are free, thats their problem. bottom line.
This is very true and is something I have said from the beginning...but it is also a load of crap...because camming is a COMBINATION of things...
In my normal cam-day, or that of the girls I have promoted, you had regulars who love you and want to spend money on you and who really want to know your persona and care about what you say. And those are the guys you speak of. And they have grown more fickle and there are less of them, since some of them are busy watching Candy Cane finger fuck her girlfriend in the shower while you're on and would normally be making bank off them....
But the guys who come in, see you...think your hot...and take you private..or the guys who you have never seen who join your group for like 10 minutes, so your groups are all 10+ guys for over an hour...or the guy who comes in and one off tips 250 tokens just to get a titty flash, or the guy who comes in every once in a while because he remembers you, but doesn't interact all that much...
ALL of those guys have gotten MUCH MUCH closer to extinct. Since those guys are the MUCH more likely to be dragged off to a Fuck Machine show or a dildo marathon.
And you're right, because it has started with the poorer girls, the top girls picked up on banking using hardcore shows, and now the poorer girls are MUCH more under pressure to perform. So we are seeing even ore of the page 3 girls doing shows and not even charging a fucking count, or 2000 tokens...I have seen anal dildo shows that have happened for 400 tokens...
You think that is something we're just gonna "have to adjust our game" for? You honestly want to tell me that isn't bad for camming?
B
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 06:09 PM
LMAO, that is outrageous! THERE ARE MILLIONS OF FREE SHOWS VIA OTHER PORN SITES ON THE INTERNET.
Are you crusading against xvideos.com, redtube.com, etc etc??
Hell no you aren't, it's not about morals for you, it's about the money, that's it--so don't pretend to be on some moral crusade.
I have crusaded in the past against them. I was involved in lawsuits against them. However, they don't have contracts and rules that they must adhere to. Like MFC does.
They (tube sites) are destroying porn, which has NEVER been about the women. Tube sites don;t directly hurt the women of porn, nearly as much as free shows destroy camming directly for the women involved.
I am a feminist, and I am here to protect women. I don't care if Vivid loses money, but I got somewhat involved because if Vivid loses money they pay actresses even less and hire less of them. But I am not interested in making things better for patriarchal porn kings, thanks very much.
Like you yourself stated before, you are a promoter. You are a spinmeister, hype creator, and pot stirrer. That's what a promoter does.
You are correct that is PART of what a promoter does. And that is why the fucking bigbox sites should fear me. Because I know how to get word out there and make things happen.
So, since I think your a shill anyway, you better realize I am a promoter...a spinmeister, hype creator, and pot stirrer...add whistle blower, money magnet, creative genius, who has been around long enough to see the writing on the wall...and then ad to that that I work for THESE DAMN LADIES. And you madam, better watch out, because whatever interests you work for, and it OBVIOUSLY isn;t the well being of the WOMEN in Camming, is going to be ruthlessly trounced by me and my brigade of lovely cam-models.
DAMN STRAIGHT!
At the end of the day, it's all about jealousy, envy, and fattening your wallet. Say what you want, but at least be honest about your intentions.
You say this, but where is your proof?
You are actually seriously bad at debate or just not that smart, since why would I not just go with the flow? It would be REALLY easy to open a camsite and have wild sex shows and shit...WHY would I do all this? How does it benefit me??? I mean how is my greed satisfied?
And since I don't cam directly(except for a VERY few select customers), but promote...and do not work on ANY bigbox sites myself...where is the jealousy and envy from? I promote girls...some of them do shows in free against my advice, and I continue to promote them....
This isn't about the WOMEN being BAD, no matter how you try to put those words in my mouth...
This isn't about morals, except where it concerns the minors watching shows which you have specifically said is FINE AND GOOD and not to be worried about. You think it is ok to perform sexual acts in front of minors...you SAID so.
This is not about women being BAD...this is about a cam environment that hurts ALL women, even the ones who DO the shows. And therefor it is something which must change to save the camming industry.
So keep saying that doing shows for minors is peachy and great, I'll keep fighting for the women.
And once again, I'll repeat myself just like you are repeating yourself again--putting women at risk for your personal gain is selfish, and wrong. Your so-called "outing" of MFC absolutely positively will cause media outlets to dig into who the girls are on the site. IT HAPPENS EVERY DAMN TIME IN THIS SORT OF MEDIA INVESTIGATIONS....
Every damn time?? ALL those times??? Ok...
CHALLENGE!!!
Show me where at least 5 women on camsites have been exposed in any investigative report by any credible news organization. I want sites and I want to see the damage it caused them, and I want to see where I can look it up...no hearsay.
You are absolutely full of shit...No investigations like this have been done, no women were exposed, it would be illegal to expose the real names of the women who use aliases for their SAFETY and the lawsuits would be HUGE.
It just won't happen. You are making stuff up because you know this is a REALLY touchy area where MFC (your boss?) is in EXTREME peril of being exposed and forced to do a LOT to make models lives better.
So keep railing at this, it just shows where your TRUE loyalties lie.
And before you call me a liar again, go find me one sex scandal where the girl or girls are still anonymous from the scandal. You ain't gonna find one, because they don't exist.
Those girls had NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY. So the news was bound to expose them, because they were fucking Tiger Woods or whatever and their identity was material to the story.
Apples and Oranges. Absolute Straw Man bullshit argument that has nothing to do with this. I can easily show you a few investigations 60 minutes or 48 hours has done on Stripping, and Prostitution (the really excellent one on escorts/call-girls comes to mind) where they hid the identities of ALL the girls involved. So you're a fucking liar. Because 60 minutes has protected the identities of sex workers SEVERAL times, as has 48 hours, Frontline, and several other news programs.And you can show me NO instance where they exposed sex workers identities en masse like you say. So you are WRONG and lying AGAIN.
So, with this...who is doing the spin? Me who can show that these news show DON'T expose sex workers identities, or you who points to women having affairs with stars? Who is SPINNING things and hyping the danger and stirring the pot? YOU. Big surprise.
THE MEDIA ALWAYS OUTS THE GIRLS IN THESE SITUATIONS BECAUSE IT SELLS!
Once again wrong, and provably so. This isn't a story about someone fucking Obama, this is about LEO being a douchebag who cares more about his wallet than camgirls. And the history shows that these news shows ALWAYS protect the identities of those who need to be anonymous.
You know that as well as anyone, I'm pretty sure you watch the news as well.
I sure do...DO YOU?!?!?
Watch the Escorts thing on 60 minutes. Not ONE girl who wanted anonymity was exposed...all were voice and camera disguised. On the one about the strippers SOME girls were hidden and others weren't and specifically saidd they weren't afraid and didn't mind being on screen.
You know who WAS exposed? Strip Club owners, who beat the girls and hired russian slaves and shit....Got a problem with that????
You know who else was exposed? Pimps...one of which put one of his girls in the hospital 4 times with a coat-hanger. Problem with THAT?!
But let's just be honest here, you don't care who gets hurt in this situation because it's all about the money for you.... the rest of the world best get out of the way of you and your money.
/sarcasm; ON/ yah, that's it alright...that's my motive...you caught me...
It wouldn't be better for me to just open sites where women are exploited that make billions like they do today...it's better and more profitable for me to fight all the powers that be and try to go against the grain and make things better for girls.../sarcasm; OFF/
Really, are you a malicious person, do you work for MFC, or are you just SERIOUSLY impaired? I don't get it...you make nonsensical arguments, that are so obvious and are like a little gnat biting at my ear...
The GREED argument makes no SENSE...Explain how I make more money by changing the rules at MFC for the better? Explain how my overwhelming greed will be satisfied by that???
Well, one way...
Camming will get good again and all women will be making MUCH more money. Thus, I will be making much more money. So I guess, yah, my greed enters into it as much it does for every camgirl out there.
This IS business and money we're talking about, right? I mean camming is about MAKING MONEY, right? So how is anything I say BAD for girls making more money???
Bet you won't answer that...
Also, this is also a bullshit argument and a straw man. Because lets say I am the greediest bitch in the universe and I'm cold and heartless and even evil. None of that contradicts the arguments I have made about FREE SHOWS, one bit. NONE of what you have said is a factual argument about ANYTHING.
Because you have NO FACTS to back you up. You have no science, no history, no reality to back up what you say. So attacking the Collective site with pure lies (remember the $100k server...can you show me on dell where that is and how it is a "web ready server" and the $2000 one is not?) and attacking my character are what you do...which is pure spin and hype and fantasy...You are a LIAR.
Oh yeah and for the record, I don't do public cums shows for "free" or for money.... but I give support to any girl who makes her hustle that way, and I ain't mad at them, I respect their game and I hope they bank everyday of the week.
While that is the status quo, I give my support to those girls as well, and I vow to try to make a cam-universe where they don't HAVE to for their hustle. Where they can follow the rules and just do teasing shows and make MUCH MUCH more money!! I am all about the women. If you do Free Shows now, it would help everyone if you STOP, but if you don't, I still love you...I understand...you gotta feed the kids or pay the rent, and that is how the money comes right now, because MFC is fucking us all....
Don't let this "person" turn the argument, whether you agree with me, or disagree...I am not against YOU, I am against MFC making rules and then getting us to sign legal contracts, and then fucking us over...
So...I am waiting for you to address the REAL argument here. That MFC writes rules and makes contracts which force adherence, and then ignore those rules and put models at risk of lawsuits and arrest.
You never actually factually argue the REAL points, do you?
You see, I actually support these girls making their bank, and I won't profit a dime from it either.
No, if you're actually a camgirl, you will lose money from it...bravo for your intellect there Einstein.
I support them making bank, I just don't support an environment where it is done on the backs of all other cam-models.
I also don't support doing wide open pussy shows and dildo shows and hardcore lesbian shows for KIDS, like you do.
Jealousy and envy will eat you up until there is nothing left--and as long as you worry about everyone else instead of focusing on your own success, you'll continue to be left behind in the dust.
/sarcasm mode: ON/ Yeah...it's like cancer, chewing me up inside./sarcasm mode: OFF/
Isn't this sort of drama and this sort of attack in the sentence above what the mods were brought in for??
How does her last comment and the others about me being a hype master and jealous and envious and greedy...how do those materially add to the actual discussion at hand...
Once again, I am asking to stop the ad hominum attacks and stick to reasonable discussion. I have called you a liar, and proven you lied several times. I have insinuated you either have an agenda, or are not very smart. Because I can see no other possibility for you to lie and make stuff up and spin things and go off topic and attack me as you have.
So, one last time, I am asking you to stop the attacks, and stop the 'verbal' abuse, and stick to the topic in a reasonable and civil tone.
B
Sam38g
07-25-2011, 06:25 PM
Wow, and shit money has nothing to do with the world economy for the last 2 years.
OKay, live in fantasy world.
Some people will always make money no matter how bad the economy is. Some people will never thrive even in a great economy.
To say it is all MFC fault and nothing else factors into it is nuts.
A friend of mine is from Europe. She did work with the Russian mob to launder money for several years. They would spend thousands on her in prvts & tips. Scam with each model only works for about 2 weeks. Hence why most cam companies say the 1st check is held back for 2 weeks or more.
Yes, I do agree that MFC should enforce their own rules. But realize their rules and such are all on wikipedia, not a document they host on their own site. Other cam companies have the rules directly in their contracts, MFC doesn't. Am I the only one to notice this, so based on that info, there is no rules.
Smooches,
Sam
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 06:41 PM
Something I really wanted to get back to and get out there, since I've seen something akin to this argument before about the contracts we sign.
From "niko-n-Justine":
First and foremost, as you so stated prior, MFC's contract isn't worth the paper its written on and wouldn't hold up in court. Therefore, what the contract does or doesn't state it irrelevant.
This is the worst argument of this whole charade you perpetrate.
When a girl brings a guy on cam, she definitely gets in trouble, which shows that MFC IS watching and ABLE to enforce rules. I have seen girls get trouble because a guy WALKED THROUGH in the background. So they ARE watching.
Also, try sending guys to skype for shows in a way that easy to catch....
Fall asleep on cam....bring a kid on cam (at least this rule is worthy, they don't care if you let kids WATCH, just don't bring one on cam..ridiculous) and you will VERY LIKELY hear from MFC.
So SOME of their contract has teeth. I know women who were warned/fined/suspended for insertion back about 8 months ago when a bunch of complaints came in...Contract had teeth THEN...but not today...
More ridiculousness....If I sign something, I stick to my word. I do not like to be asked to pretend the contract is valid but it really isn;t and all that shit...cuz fer fuckin A sure, MFC will use that contract 5 years from now when they are selling best of DVDs to your friends and family...because that contract says they OWN you. And it will be exactly what they use to prove it...
But the instant we use the contract to get things changed for our benefit, out comes this "what the contract does or doesn't state it irrelevant." and the not worth the paper it isn't even printed on.
Did you sign it? Then at LEAST get the benefit of the FEW SMALL THINGS in your favor. Sheesh!
B
PS. It's a legally binding contract for both parties until a court of law adjudicates otherwise. PERIOD. So it IS relevant.
Niko-n-Justine
07-25-2011, 06:52 PM
I have crusaded in the past against them. I was involved in lawsuits against them. However, they don't have contracts and rules that they must adhere to. Like MFC does.
They (tube sites) are destroying porn, which has NEVER been about the women. Tube sites don;t directly hurt the women of porn, nearly as much as free shows destroy camming directly for the women involved.
I am a feminist, and I am here to protect women. I don't care if Vivid loses money, but I got somewhat involved because if Vivid loses money they pay actresses even less and hire less of them. But I am not interested in making things better for patriarchal porn kings, thanks very much.
You are correct that is PART of what a promoter does. And that is why the fucking bigbox sites should fear me. Because I know how to get word out there and make things happen.
So, since I think your a shill anyway, you better realize I am a promoter...a spinmeister, hype creator, and pot stirrer...add whistle blower, money magnet, creative genius, who has been around long enough to see the writing on the wall...and then ad to that that I work for THESE DAMN LADIES. And you madam, better watch out, because whatever interests you work for, and it OBVIOUSLY isn;t the well being of the WOMEN in Camming, is going to be ruthlessly trounced by me and my brigade of lovely cam-models.
DAMN STRAIGHT!
You say this, but where is your proof?
You are actually seriously bad at debate or just not that smart, since why would I not just go with the flow? It would be REALLY easy to open a camsite and have wild sex shows and shit...WHY would I do all this? How does it benefit me??? I mean how is my greed satisfied?
And since I don't cam directly(except for a VERY few select customers), but promote...and do not work on ANY bigbox sites myself...where is the jealousy and envy from? I promote girls...some of them do shows in free against my advice, and I continue to promote them....
This isn't about the WOMEN being BAD, no matter how you try to put those words in my mouth...
This isn't about morals, except where it concerns the minors watching shows which you have specifically said is FINE AND GOOD and not to be worried about. You think it is ok to perform sexual acts in front of minors...you SAID so.
This is not about women being BAD...this is about a cam environment that hurts ALL women, even the ones who DO the shows. And therefor it is something which must change to save the camming industry.
So keep saying that doing shows for miors is peachy and great, I'll keep fighting for the women.
Every damn time?? ALL those times??? Ok...
CHALLENGE!!!
Show me where at least 5 women on camsites have been exposed in any investigative report by any credible news organization. I want sites and I want to see the damage it caused them, and I want to see where I can look it up...no hearsay.
You are absolutely full of shit...No investigations like this have been done, no women were exposed, it would be illegal to expose the real names of the women who use aliases for their SAFETY and the lawsuits would be HUGE.
It just won't happen. You are making stuff up because you know this is a REALLY touchy area where MFC (your boss?) is in EXTREME peril of being exposed and forced to do a LOT to make models lives better.
So keep railing at this, it just shows where your TRUE loyalties lie.
Those girls had NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY. So the news was bound to expose them, because they were fucking Tiger Woods or whatever and their identity was material to the story.
Apples and Oranges. Absolute Straw Man bullshit argument that has nothing to do with this. I can easily show you a few investigations 60 minutes or 48 hours has done on Stripping, and Prostitution (the really excellent one on escorts/call-girls comes to mind) where they hid the identities of ALL the girls involved. So you're a fucking liar. Because 60 minutes has protected the identities of sex workers SEVERAL times, as has 48 hours, Frontline, and several other news programs.And you can show me NO instance where they exposed sex workers identities en masse like you say. So you are WRONG and lying AGAIN.
So, with this...who is doing the spin? Me who can show that these news show DON'T expose sex workers identities, or you who points to women having affairs with stars? Who is SPINNING things and hyping the danger and stirring the pot? YOU. Big surprise.
Once again wrong, and provably so. This isn't a story about someone fucking Obama, this is about LEO being a douchebag who cares more about his wallet than camgirls. And the history shows that these news shows ALWAYS protect the identities of those who need to be anonymous.
I sure do...DO YOU?!?!?
Watch the Escorts thing on 60 minutes. Not ONE girl who wanted anonymity was exposed...all were voice and camera disguised. On the one about the strippers SOME girls were hidden and others weren't and specifically saidd they weren't afraid and didn't mind being on screen.
You know who WAS exposed? Strip Club owners, who beat the girls and hired russian slaves and shit....Got a problem with that????
You know who else was exposed? Pimps...one of which put one of his girls in the hospital 4 times with a coat-hanger. Problem with THAT?!
/sarcasm; ON/ yah, that's it alright...that's my motive...you caught me...
It wouldn't be better for me to just open sites where women are exploited that make billions like they do today...it's better and more profitable for me to fight all the powers that be and try to go against the grain and make things better for girls.../sarcasm; OFF/
Really, are you a malicious person, do you work for MFC, or are you just SERIOUSLY impaired? I don't get it...you make nonsensical arguments, that are so obvious and are like a little gnat biting at my ear...
The GREED argument makes no SENSE...Explain how I make more money by changing the rules at MFC for the better? Explain how my overwhelming greed will be satisfied by that???
Well, one way...
Camming will get good again and all women will be making MUCH more money. Thus, I will be making much more money. So I guess, yah, my greed enters into it as much it does for every camgirl out there.
This IS business and money we're talking about, right? I mean camming is about MAKING MONEY, right? So how is anything I say BAD for girls making more money???
Bet you won't answer that...
Also, this is also a bullshit argument and a straw man. Because lets say I am the greediest bitch in the universe and I'm cold and heartless and even evil. None of that contradicts the arguments I have made about FREE SHOWS, one bit. NONE of what you have said is a factual argument about ANYTHING.
Because you have NO FACTS to back you up. You have no science, no history, no reality to back up what you say. So attacking the Collective site with pure lies (remember the $100k server...can you show me on dell where that is and how it is a "web ready server" and the $2000 one is not?) and attacking my character are what you do...which is pure spin and hype and fantasy...You are a LIAR.
While that is the status quo, I give my support to those girls as well, and I vow to try to make a cam-universe where they don't HAVE to for their hustle. Where they can follow the rules and just do teasing shows and make MUCH MUCH more money!! I am all about the women. If you do Free Shows now, it would help everyone if you STOP, but if you don't, I still love you...I understand...you gotta feed the kids or pay the rent, and that is how the money comes right now, because MFC is fucking us all....
Don't let this "person" turn the argument, whether you agree with me, or disagree...I am not against YOU, I am against MFC making rules and then getting us to sign legal contracts, and then fucking us over...
So...I am waiting for you to address the REAL argument here. That MFC writes rules and makes contracts which force adherence, and then ignore those rules and put models at risk of lawsuits and arrest.
You never actually factually argue the REAL points, do you?
No, if you're actually a camgirl, you will lose money from it...bravo for your intellect there Einstein.
I support them making bank, I just don't support an environment where it is done on the backs of all other cam-models.
I also don't support doing wide open pussy shows and dildo shows and hardcore lesbian shows for KIDS, like you do.
/sarcasm mode: ON/ Yeah...it's like cancer, chewing me up inside./sarcasm mode: OFF/
Isn't this sort of drama and this sort of attack in the sentence above what the mods were brought in for??
How does her last comment and the others about me being a hype master and jealous and envious and greedy...how do those materially add to the actual discussion at hand...
Once again, I am asking to stop the ad hominum attacks and stick to reasonable discussion. I have called you a liar, and proven you lied several times. I have insinuated you either have an agenda, or are not very smart. Because I can see no other possibility for you to lie and make stuff up and spin things and go off topic and attack me as you have.
So, one last time, I am asking you to stop the attacks, and stop the 'verbal' abuse, and stick to the topic in a reasonable and civil tone.
B
(A) You've never been involved in a lawsuit against porn sites, you are just creating spin again to pretend like you are a crusader. Spin, spin sister. It's just about your pocket book. Call my bluff, post the image of your filing here, and I'll apologize. They don't exist you know it as well as I do.
(B) The bigbox sites don't fear you--you've been puffing about the same thing on this forum for years and still have done nothing. Furthermore, they ain't breaking any laws--you can't prosecute people on a moral-code violation. Sorry, there are thousands of anti-porn lobbies out there trying the same thing, and the supreme court and lower federal and state courts have shot down their attempts at censorship.
(C) You've said I'm "insulting" you, but in the above post you insulted me more than once. Seriously? The pot calling the kettle black? Spin spin spin away... that's what you do.
Secondly, I must not be half as stupid as you think I am, I'm not yet 22 years old and I've bought and paid for my home in cash, and own my vehicles out right as well. And... well, I'm 10 months away from my bachelors degree in business, and might I add, I paid for my schooling at a major university in all cash as well? No debt at 21 years old. Yeah I must be a total moron.
(D) I never said that you said the "women were being bad"... i said you are a self centerd money grubber who doesn't mind putting these INNOCENT women at jeopardy to further your greed. You'll run over anyone to get that money. Spin spin spin away. If you are gonna respond to me, at least take the time to read what I actually said.
(E) I didn't say it was okay for minors to watch porn, and if you read what I said unstead of spinning your same lies over and over, you'd know that. I said that kids do NOT need to see porn, and that their LAZY ASS PARENTS need to take the proper steps to prevent them from see online porn. So get it right, and don't ever put words in my mouth. You sound pathetic when you make stuff up.
(F) I didn't say CAM SITE girls were exposed... if you read my effing post, you'd know that. Spin spin spin... you are either ignorant or purposely deceiving these women if you truly believe that new organizations will not seek out the women involved with cams sites. THIS SHIT SELLS AND VICTIMS WITH FACES MAKES PEOPLE TUNE IT. I thought you were a marketing genius? Hmmmm, I'm beginning to question your self proclaims expertise is this field.
(G) MFC my boss?? LMAO. I'm my own boss you self proclaimed pimp. You ain't no different than Leo, you both are trying to make your money off of other girls. You're just mad at him because he's doing a better job at it. That's all you are... you pimp out women so you can get your cut, MFC is hurting your pocketbook so now you come here whining and pretending to be a crusader for good when all you care about is the money. You're a fraud, a fake, and no better than Leo or any other modeling agency or cam site. You make you living off of other women's work.
(H) And yeah, I'll tell you where my true loyalties lie... making my damn money, and protecting other women from your greedy shit that will prevent them from making theirs. You're a fraud, and I've gotten so many damn emails from other girls thanking me for calling you out and your bully tactics you pull.
(I) And I got news for you sister... the girls on MFC with their faces out there on the world wide web can expect no privacy being involved with that site and your attempt at exposure. No different than Tiger's women, or any other sex scandal. And you don't care about that, because whatever gets you more money is all that matters. You'll steam roll anyone, and ruin girls' lives as long as it increases your pay. spin spin spin away girl.
(J) I call bullshit on your 60 minutes "protecting" the women. We are talking about the world wide web, not a faceless call girl add in the back of a shady newspaper. THESE CAM GIRLS ARE ALREADY EXPOSED TO THE WORLD.... no one has to find them. They are out there for the whole world to see. All you gotta do is log onto their room and you see them... no searching necessary.
(K) YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND LAW. The girls who were not exposed were actually victims of sex crimes, and it's a felony to expose victims of sex crimes. CAM GIRLS ARE NOT VICTIMS... they are willing participants in making money with the aid of the traffic from cam sites. If you are not a victim of a sex crime, you do NOT enjoy the protection of the law from being exposed. Read up on some law books, then come back to me and let's discuss the legalities of exposure.
(L) Stop talking about the police and breaking laws, etc... yada yada yada,... PUBLIC CUM SHOWS ARE NOT AGAINST THE LAW. Call the cops! Shit, I'll do a free public cum show for once and call the cops on me and see where that gets you... NO WHERE! IT'S 100% TOTALLY LEGAL TO DO PUBLIC CUM SHOWS. Do I need to keep repeating myself? There ain't a damn law on the books that makes it illegal.
Niko-n-Justine
07-25-2011, 06:52 PM
(FINALLY) In closing, you are mad because I ain't your little cheerleader waving my pom poms when you walk in the room and speak. I'm calling you out for using women to further your agenda. You only care about the money... the money you make off of them.
YOU ARE LEO--exactly the same. You do your thing to make money just like he does. Is that wrong? Hell no it's not wrong, but don't pretend to be anything other than what you are. You're LEO.
More importantly, you're mad because Leo makes more money than you... you are mad because the top girls on MFC who do shows that are 100% legal also make more money on you! That's why they make more money than you too!!! You are too busy whining, bitching, and moaning about how they make more money than you.
That's the damn truth too... jealously and envy, it's tearing you apart. That's why for all these years on stripperweb you've been bitching and moaning about the same thing. It's like a broken record, and you just keep getting passed further up by the rest of the world.
So go ahead and sulk in your jealousy... that seems to be your calling card on this website anyway.
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 07:04 PM
Wow, and shit money has nothing to do with the world economy for the last 2 years.
Porn has always been known as the recession proof business. People still buy sex no matter what...that's what they always said...but you know what? That was when there wasn't HUGE AMOUNTS out there for FREE.
That was when cam sites forced you to spend money to get off....
How silly is this argument?
Um...guess what? During a recession, cam customers will be MUCH more likely to take advantage of the free shows and NOT tip or take girls private, than during a time of prosperity, and MFC still created that atmosphere. So thank you for proving my point so very well.
OKay, live in fantasy world.
Ditto...and do you need the nasty tone? Does that line add to the actual facts of this argument?
Some people will always make money no matter how bad the economy is. Some people will never thrive even in a great economy.
Worthless straw man argument.
Your statements are correct...but do not prove or add to the argument that MFC is doing something BAD for camming. That if one girl can bank, then any shitty rules and slavery and shit is FINE....that is where your argument leads.
I am about ALL camgirls making more money. Period. Because I work in camming and in favor of camgirls, I will benefit if they all make more money.
So, I don't want an environment where only a FEW can thrive. I want an environment where ALL can do well and MANY MANY can THRIVE.
Why would you argue with that? What benefit is it to YOU, for other camgirls to LOSE money? I'd like to knpw your motive for arguing this argument.
You don't think that say 5000+ guys per day getting off on MFC to FREE shows and tipping ZERO tokens/dollars is a BAD thing? You DON'T think it harms other girls when thousands of potential customers pound their pud for absolutely nothing??
To say it is all MFC fault and nothing else factors into it is nuts.
I never said NOTHING ELSE FACTORS INTO IT...are you putting words in my mouth now too? Show me where I said there were NO other factors.
But an environment where Public shows is allowed harming camming, well, since ONLY MFC allows that of the large sites, then, yes it is ALL THEIR FAULT. And that this stuff hurts camming has nothing to do with recessions and other factors which lower cam money, those exist, but are DWARFED by the loss of money represented by 5000+ guys cumming for free every day.
Yes, I do agree that MFC should enforce their own rules. But realize their rules and such are all on wikipedia, not a document they host on their own site. Other cam companies have the rules directly in their contracts, MFC doesn't. Am I the only one to notice this, so based on that info, there is no rules.
Um, sweetheart, they aren't on WikiPedia. They are on a WIki directly owned by MFC and on the MFC domain.
There you go...read the domain...it is ON MFC.
MFC HAS RULES.
Smooches,
Sam
Right back atcha!
B
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 07:49 PM
(A) You've never been involved in a lawsuit against porn sites, you are just creating spin again to pretend like you are a crusader. Spin, spin sister. It's just about your pocket book. Call my bluff, post the image of your filing here, and I'll apologize. They don't exist you know it as well as I do.
Um, anything my name is on is my real name..so are you SERIOUS?...I am not exposing my real name to hundreds of stalkers and freaks to prove a point to you. And if I block out my name, what the hell would be the use? You really ARE foolish.
Also, I never said I FILED a lawsuit. Only that I worked with those who did. I also don't care about the argument as it relates to tubesites and told you so. I will not waste time with that, nor will I waste anymore time going off-topic with you. You are a waste. You realize that? A huge time sinkhole.
So, last time I waste on a long reply. If the mods don;t do something about this, then they are unfair. Because I did not start being rude to you, I did not call you nasty names (I even apologize for calling you stupid since it so OBVIOUSLY STUNG...I will just say your posts something in the department of "Making Sense in an intelligent world", better?), and I certainly have stayed on topic and tried to continually bring the topic back.
(B) The bigbox sites don't fear you--you've been puffing about the same thing on this forum for years and still have done nothing. Furthermore, they ain't breaking any laws--you can't prosecute people on a moral-code violation. Sorry, there are thousands of anti-porn lobbies out there trying the same thing, and the supreme court and lower federal and state courts have shot down their attempts at censorship.
I have been talking about this for about 1 year. So another lie, more wasted space and energy.
Adherence to their contract is a legal issue. Publicity they fear. And they are definitely breaking Community Standards laws in showing porn to minors. The reason it hasn't gone to court is specifically because LEO uses his models as human shields.
(C) You've said I'm "insulting" you, but in the above post you insulted me more than once. Seriously? The pot calling the kettle black? Spin spin spin away... that's what you do.
I stay on topic and repeatedly try to return the thread to the topic at hand which is the death of camming caused by MFC willfully mis-using the rules they created.
I won't really deviate from that topic anymore, so have fun liar.
Secondly, I must not be half as stupid as you think I am, I'm not yet 22 years old and I've bought and paid for my home in cash, and own my vehicles out right as well. And... well, I'm 10 months away from my bachelors degree in business, and might I add, I paid for my schooling at a major university in all cash as well? No debt at 21 years old. Yeah I must be a total moron.
That little zing must have really stung huh? For you to write all that and defended and tried to make yourself look smart?
Don't worry...done with insults...material arguments from here on out...
(D) I never said that you said the "women were being bad"... i said you are a self centerd money grubber who doesn't mind putting these INNOCENT women at jeopardy to further your greed. You'll run over anyone to get that money. Spin spin spin away. If you are gonna respond to me, at least take the time to read what I actually said.
You inferred strongly that I was attacking the women for doing these shows by defending them as if they were attacked. I dod not ever attack them and no one here has. It is MFC and their rules and their bogus contract which promises only an environment free of Penetration and so on. And then breaks that.
Don't need to respond to the purely hateful remarks that follow that and are patently against the spirit and rules of this board.
[quote]
(E) I didn't say it was okay for minors to watch porn, and if you read what I said unstead of spinning your same lies over and over, you'd know that. I said that kids do NOT need to see porn, and that their LAZY ASS PARENTS need to take the proper steps to prevent them from see online porn. So get it right, and don't ever put words in my mouth. You sound pathetic when you make stuff up.
Every girl I know who does MFC realizes that minors are on there, and that there is no protection whatsoever for that. So, if you are intelligent as you say you are, then you realize that minors are there as well. And you then tell girls (knowing minors are present) that they can continue doing shows because it's legal...meaning that the moral aspects of doing fuck shows for minors don't concern you. You continually tell women it is OK to do these shows even knowing minors WILL be present without having to go private or group. So you HAVE said doing shows for minors is ok, legal and fine.
(F) I didn't say CAM SITE girls were exposed... if you read my effing post, you'd know that. Spin spin spin... you are either ignorant or purposely deceiving these women if you truly believe that new organizations will not seek out the women involved with cams sites. THIS SHIT SELLS AND VICTIMS WITH FACES MAKES PEOPLE TUNE IT. I thought you were a marketing genius? Hmmmm, I'm beginning to question your self proclaims expertise is this field.
You said investigations LIKE these....but extra-marital affair scandals are NOT investigations LIKE these in any but the MOST tenuous of ways. So show me where CamGirls have ever had their identities exposed, or hookers or strippers, in an investigation not directly related to THEM (ie. they were arrested) and were hurt by that? If you cannot, then shut up about it because it's your fairytale world you're talking about. It never happened and never will.
I want to see the names in writing or the video which shows identities being exposed, in any investigation LIKE this one.
You're again full of shit.
(G) MFC my boss?? LMAO. I'm my own boss you self proclaimed pimp. You ain't no different than Leo, you both are trying to make your money off of other girls. You're just mad at him because he's doing a better job at it. That's all you are... you pimp out women so you can get your cut, MFC is hurting your pocketbook so now you come here whining and pretending to be a crusader for good when all you care about is the money. You're a fraud, a fake, and no better than Leo or any other modeling agency or cam site. You make you living off of other women's work.
Call me Leo all you like. This is exactly what you would say if you are shilling for MFC on this. You have nothing else to gain by attacking me, and no reason to dislike me, except that you protect BIG CAMMING.
(H) And yeah, I'll tell you where my true loyalties lie... making my damn money, and protecting other women from your greedy shit that will prevent them from making theirs. You're a fraud, and I've gotten so many damn emails from other girls thanking me for calling you out and your bully tactics you pull.
HAHAHAHAH!!! I love this one...and I can IMAGINE who those e-mails are from. I dare some of those people to step up and make an argument. If ANY exist, they are the people who WOULD send you e-mails and be YOUR cheerleader....bahahahahaha...hilarious.
Try this:
"And yeah, I'll tell you where my true loyalties lie (lie being the operative word)... making my damn money (being greedy), and (hypocritically) protecting other women from your greedy shit that will prevent them from making theirs (at the expense of other models, who will ALL benefit by what I do)."
MUCH better.
(I) And I got news for you sister... the girls on MFC with their faces out there on the world wide web can expect no privacy being involved with that site and your attempt at exposure. No different than Tiger's women, or any other sex scandal. And you don't care about that, because whatever gets you more money is all that matters. You'll steam roll anyone, and ruin girls' lives as long as it increases your pay. spin spin spin away girl.
Wow, you really make an anonymous news tip sound malevolent. Bravo. Great bullshit. Like they can't stumble on this story on their own....silly...
And you are wrong...no girl has their true identity up there, and to expose that would endanger them, and would be patently illegal and actionable.
So gain, you're WRONG. You know nothing of Law...and we need to go to Other Work and ask Michael (Pornlaw) about it, so you can shut up about your misinformed legal advice.
(J) I call bullshit on your 60 minutes "protecting" the women. We are talking about the world wide web, not a faceless call girl add in the back of a shady newspaper. THESE CAM GIRLS ARE ALREADY EXPOSED TO THE WORLD.... no one has to find them. They are out there for the whole world to see. All you gotta do is log onto their room and you see them... no searching necessary.
Um, obviously you didn't watch the show, which was about INTERNET ESCORTS and CALLGIRLS, and featured many (identity protected women) who were sex workers and NOT sex crime victims...they were just interview subjects talking about how much money they bank being escorts. You are so ridiculous talking about things you know nothing about. The only people they exposed were when they talked about the women who had pimps who abused them, they exposed the pimps and followed them with cameras in their face like they will do to your precious Leo.
So, once again, you're wrong. Show me where 60 minutes or any other national news show has exposed strippers or escorts or camgirl identities. EVER. Even one. Much less EN MASSE like you say I am putting women in danger of. Show me ONCE that has ever happened???
Fairy tales....I want FACTS, not fairy tales.
(K) YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND LAW. The girls who were not exposed were actually victims of sex crimes, and it's a felony to expose victims of sex crimes. CAM GIRLS ARE NOT VICTIMS... they are willing participants in making money with the aid of the traffic from cam sites. If you are not a victim of a sex crime, you do NOT enjoy the protection of the law from being exposed. Read up on some law books, then come back to me and let's discuss the legalities of exposure.
Most of the girls in the three reports I referenced were NOT "victims of sex crimes" and protected because of it. Most were women who were just telling their stories good and bad. All were protected or otherwise STATED they did not want to be anonymous. So you're wrong. I've seen reports on MSNBC which do the same thing and 48 hours and several other news shows. I have NEVER seen strippers, escorts, or camgirls have their ieditites exposed, and ESPECIALLY not EN MASSE, like you infer.
SHOW me the PROOF.
(L) Stop talking about the police and breaking laws, etc... yada yada yada,... PUBLIC CUM SHOWS ARE NOT AGAINST THE LAW. Call the cops! Shit, I'll do a free public cum show for once and call the cops on me and see where that gets you... NO WHERE! IT'S 100% TOTALLY LEGAL TO DO PUBLIC CUM SHOWS. Do I need to keep repeating myself? There ain't a damn law on the books that makes it illegal.
Do any of you girls believe that doing cum shows on an unprotected site which does not block minors, is LEGAL? Do you buy her shit?
Because if you do...PLEASE call a competent adult entertainment attorney right away and see what they say. Please.
Don't listen to EITHER of us. Call an AE attorney and ask if they advise that you do cum shows on an unprotected site that does nothing to stop minors, in a FREE area...and further if they would say that that would be "Completely Legal" like this 'person' is advising you. I dare one of you who back her and e-mail her about me (hahahahaha...like...yeah) to call and post the transcript. Then add that the site has specific rules against it, and that you signed a contract that says you will follow those rules, and you break it daily...
Hahahahaha...N-n-J...that last bit right there shows what fucking joke this all is...you're ridiculous....
I'm out...
B
kballar
07-25-2011, 08:09 PM
NOOO contracts and rules and blah blah are all irrelevant that is why I had the lovely pleasure of seeing three girls coming out of private earlier with their cam out of focus on them. It was focused on the INFANT they had sitting next to the bed in his swing! No it wasnt on MFC but they were "banking" so I guess thats all that matters huh?
Bambalina is going to do a lot of damage to a lot of women.
Bambalina
07-25-2011, 08:11 PM
Now, you can all keep discussing...but remember this:
"What you can / cannot do on camera.
Our rules are extremely important and you must follow them. If anyone encourages you to break the rules, please Contact Model Support.
In Public/Free Chat...
You can chat, talk, dance, have fun, etc.
Even full nudity is OK if it is done in a tasteful, beautiful way.
NO masturbation, penetration, using sexual toys or devices, cunnilingus, or other Hardcore sexually explicit activity."
THAT is the rules as they stand TODAY on the MFC wiki.
And you as a model have a right to demand they are followed whatever anyone else says. If they aren't you have a right to bring it to the attention of WHOEVER can change that and make this an environment where the rules are followed.
Oh and THIS is seriously interesting...Why this wording ladies????
"Actions that may be deemed obscene in your community. "
Because Community standards are what decides if you get BUSTED. No other reason. Call a lawyer and ASK why those words are there.
Oh, and from the Members page:
Our rules for models are largely determined by laws and potential legal issues. Members should be aware of these rules so that they do not encourage models to violate them, which would lead to the member being banned.
Makes a liar out of someone who says it isn't about laws, since even MFC admits that it is LARGELY about laws and legal issues.
AND
n Public Chat, sexually-explicit conduct is NOT allowed. It is impossible to define this term with perfect accuracy, but here are some examples of conduct that would not be allowed: using sex toys, genital penetration of any kind, masturbation, using the camera to "zoom" into genitalia, and other things of this sort.
For the second time and even more specific. And clear. And just as ignored unless they feel like it, then they can FINE you your money.
It's bullshit on every layer.
Fight it.
B