View Full Version : "No kids allowed movement"
Melonie
07-30-2011, 05:37 AM
I read an interesting story recently that ties in with this and that is the educated one is the less likely they are to have many kids. That in fact more and more the less educated, less wealthy members of society are having kids and this is true. There are many reasons why they think this is happening (welfare goodies, too stupid to use birth control, etc)and it does make one think. People with higher incomes tend to make more, and tend to have less kids and often none at all. Of course not all are childless by choice but many are.
^^^ Obviously this is an absolute demographic fact ... educated / professional people control an increasing percentage of total 'wealth' and thus are the source of an increasing percentage of total sales dollars = business profits. Thus if 10% of total American 'consumers' are now responsible for 50% of total sales dollars = business profits, businesses are now 'costing themselves money' if they do NOT cater to that 10% customer base. If that means enacting policies that will attract that 10% customer base ( i.e. no children ) while at the same time driving away some portion of the remaining 90% ( who have children and insist on bringing them along ), as long as the business comes out money ahead they're going to enact those policies.
The important point to recognize is that, just like Mercedes versus GM versus Hyundai, there is also a Whole Foods versus Krogers versus WalMart and a Sardi's versus Applebees versus MacDonalds. Companies that position themselves in the 'top' spot and successfully attract those 10% of customers who do 50% of the spending ( thus generating 50% of profits ) will do very well for themselves. Companies that position themselves at the 'bottom' spot will also do well for themselves based on the simple fact that a growing percentage of American consumers are sliding down the economic ladder to the point where every dollar matters ( reference 1 in 7 Americans now on food stamps etc. ).
But companies that are positioned in the 'middle' will face both the loss of customer base to the 'low' side due to pricing levels, as well as the loss of customer base to the 'high' side as the DINK's choose to spend a few extra dollars on better quality products along with being able to avoid screaming kids etc. This was the 'third-world-ization' risk I was speaking of earlier, where the economic viability of 'middle class' retailers ( and arguably the viability of the 'middle class' itself ) might become questionable. And indeed the 'no kids allowed' movement is a step in this direction.
rickdugan
07-30-2011, 05:45 AM
So because I have a newborn and a toddler, I'm not allowed to go out in public places? Because they might cry and annoy someone? :-\
...I'm sorry though, I'm not going to leave my kids with a sitter if I go to a restaurants just because I might annoy someone if my baby gets hungry and cries for a moment. (Yes, just a moment because I will take him outside to feed him..or hold him to comfort him...whatever I have to do so he's not crying through an entire meal).
This. Look, I also understand the theory that places like a high end restaurant and the first class cabin of a plane are probably not the best places for children, but IMHO public shopping venues, chain restaurants, etc., are fair game. I also have no intention of leaving my kids at home or dumping them with some stranger in a kids room.
Now my children are as well behaved as any I know. We are a bit old school and simply don't tolerate a lot of nonsense, particularly from our older one. But we also have a toddler who is a good kid overall but will sometimes cry despite our best efforts. We will work to calm her down, but I'm not going to run for the door of the grocery store just because someone nearby is intolerant.
Melonie
07-30-2011, 05:52 AM
I'm not going to run for the door of the grocery store just because someone nearby is intolerant.
This is your 'right' as a parent. However, it is also the 'right' of a 'high end' grocery store not to allow you to shop there if you insist on bringing your toddler along. Right now this isn't any huge deal since there is undoubedly a 'mid level' grocery chain store somewhere nearby that would love to have you as a customer. But the future concern is that, as that 'mid level' grocery chain store loses high spending customers to the 'high end' grocery store because of the appeal of their higher quality goods plus no kids policy, and as the 'mid level' grocery chain store loses restricted budget customers to a 'low end' grocery chain store because of rock bottom pricing levels, that at some future point that 'mid level' grocery chain store loses economic viability. And when that happens, you'll be faced with a choice of dealing with the 'low end' grocery chain store's lower quality goods plus screaming kids, versus leaving your toddler at home to shop at the 'high end' grocery store.
This exact scenario has already played out near my house in NY WITHOUT the added 'help' of official 'no kids' policies attracting affluent customers to 'high end' grocery stores. There was a 'mid-level' grocery chain called P&C that essentially was bankrupted by the loss of upscale customers to an expanding 'high end' chain called Wegmans, plus the loss of restricted budget customers to the omnipresent 'low end' WalMart's grocery dep't. This resulted in the bankrupt 'mid-level' P&C being bought out by a competing 'mid-level' chain, and the permanent closing of about 3/4s of P&C's previous supermarkets ( with the remaining 1/4 being taken over by the competing 'mid-level' chain ). Thus, if I was still living there, I would now face a choice of driving a short distance to purchase low quality groceries at Walmart, versus driving a longer distance to shop at either the 'high end' Wegmans or the nearest remaining 'mid-level' supermarket.
With an extra 30 minutes of driving / $10 worth of gas involved to buy groceries anywhere besides WalMart, which obviously serves as an 'equalizer' versus pricing level differentials between the 'mid-level' and 'high end' supermarkets, I would probably opt for the better quality products available at the 'high end' supermarket. I would definitely opt for the 'high end' supermarket if it also meant not having to deal with screaming kids / geriatric scooters / food stamp processing delays at check-out etc. ( which in NY is already predominantly the case for the 'high end' supermarket thanks to pricing level differential alone ).
Down here way south of the border, there isn't any 'mid-level' option. You get a handful of 'upscale' outlets that import quality foods at rather steep prices, and you get a plethora of mom & pop outlets selling local goods of variable quality at very cheap prices, with nothing in between. Welcome to 'third world' retail ... which may very well be coming to the bankrupt 'mid-level' strip mall near you !!!
And as I attempted to comment about earlier, this sort of change goes beyond simple issues of where to shop. It potentially involves a 're-segregation' of society along lines of economic status ... because the mixture of customer base that currently exists at 'mid level' retailers will wind up being de-facto separated into the 'haves' patronizing upscale retailers and the 'have-nots' patronizing downscale retailers. Obviously this is already a growing trend in other areas i.e. private schools versus public schools ( with financial pressures on the middle class forcing many of them out of the private school option ), upscale neighborhoods versus low cost neighborhoods ( with financial pressures on the middle class forcing many of them out of the upscale neighborhood option ), etc. Hell, I caught a satellite news story along similar lines that some upscale NY condo's Homeowner's Association is trying to enact rules that would prohibit children living in the condo from being in certain 'public areas' of the property ( so that they don't violate the 'right to quiet enjoyment' of the condo's majority of DINK residents ). All of these arguably constitute 'economic power' winning out over 'democracy power', which is the most basic characteristic of the 'third world' !
IMHO this is a dangerous trend for America to be following ... and the enactment of 'no kids' retail policies only brings this one step closer.
~
jester214
07-30-2011, 01:31 PM
The sad fact of the matter is the majority of parents don't make appropriate decisions about where/when they take their children and then once they get there make little effort to control their kids behavior.
As long as that's how the majority of parents operate (and in my opinion it is) then I support any business that decides to try 'Kid Free'.
Babies on a plane are the one I don't really have an issue with... There's really no good alternative, and it's not like it's a discipline problem.
Krill_
07-30-2011, 03:55 PM
There's obviously some places were kids are not appropriate, but I don't think it's as bad as some make it out to be. I hardly ever run into kids that are unbelievably loud and obnoxious. I run into drunks like that all the time, and surely many of you do too.
princessjas
07-30-2011, 04:17 PM
Wow, I havent read past the first page but I think this is complete bullshit. My kiddos never step a toe out of line in public, yet Ive had people ask for a table away from us in nice restaraunts. So freakin insulting! My yougest is autistic and never makes a peep, why is his presence so offensive?!?!
Now I used to live up in NJ and had brats running around everywhere, one almost ripped the table cloth off our table, destroyed a larlge potted tree and hid under our table with her parents laughing. Id KILL my boys! Maybe in areas where parents dont act like parents this would be a good thing, but most kiddos down here in NC or WV arent at all disruptive. Discipline works wonders.
I could see child free areas in restaraunts, like the old time no smoking areas.
OJenni!
07-30-2011, 06:52 PM
If they are going to start banning kids, they need to start making more places kids ARE allowed, such as more indoor playgrounds and chikd-friendly restaurants. Quite frankly, I'm sick of McDonald's playgrounds.
I agree with kid-free restaurants and vacations, and even dining and shopping hours, but banning children from playing outside? A little extreme, I think. And aren't kids getting fat enough? Now, let's FORCE them to stay indoors and get fatter. Good God.....
The reality is people aren't going to stop having children. But people need to make sure their kids are welled behaved, and childless people need to accept that sometimes kids act out and have tantrums. A well-behaved child should not be banned just because he or she is a child, but a brat should be because he or she is a brat. I'm more for kicking the kid out rather than banning ALL children.
While I see your point about banning kids outdoors, I have a slightly different perspective as I have lived in a condo unit that faced down on the terrace (garden/yard area of the condo). I was on the second floor and I was directly over the terrace-if you stood by my wall (floor to ceiling windows) you could see everything that was happening down there. In the summer I would often sleep with my windows open.
Well anyhow sometimes (not too often) I would hear a little yappy dog barking at 2am. I called security numerous times and they would always go out there and tell the woman that "dogs are not allowed on the terrace". Yup there was even a sign and big picture that said, "no dogs on the terrace". This ditzy woman would also bring her baby out there sometimes. Yup, I heard that baby cry too, but apparently the security could do nothing about her baby....
In the summer people would let their children stay up later, so of course we had some of that too. I don't mind adults having a BBQ out there, but children really did bother me as many of them were not behaved.
I think banning children after say 9pm would be appropriate.
tessarubyxoxo
07-30-2011, 08:32 PM
meh, i reached my fill & more of kids when i was a preschool teacher. less of them anywhere is personally fine with me. :/
jester214
07-30-2011, 11:09 PM
Wow, I havent read past the first page but I think this is complete bullshit. My kiddos never step a toe out of line in public, yet Ive had people ask for a table away from us in nice restaraunts. So freakin insulting! My yougest is autistic and never makes a peep, why is his presence so offensive?!?!
Now I used to live up in NJ and had brats running around everywhere, one almost ripped the table cloth off our table, destroyed a larlge potted tree and hid under our table with her parents laughing. Id KILL my boys! Maybe in areas where parents dont act like parents this would be a good thing, but most kiddos down here in NC or WV arent at all disruptive. Discipline works wonders.
I could see child free areas in restaraunts, like the old time no smoking areas.
Great for you and your kids. You're in the minority. Once you've had children ruin one meal, you might ask for a seat away from all children too. It's not a personal thing, it's just hedging your bets. I'm from NC too, it's as bad here as pretty much any other place I've ever been.
And I'm not saying you're one of these people, but a lot of kids are annoying as shit and their parents don't even realize it.
Flickdreams
07-31-2011, 02:08 AM
If you have paid money for an experience and you are disrupted do you deserve recompense?
Think of CR that get disrupted by awkward Waitress/what-have-you
Surely the service provider has some responsibility to ensure you recieve what you pay for?
More Creche facilities, sound proof rooms at theatre (for adult M+ movies).
We can patronise venues who enforce a behaviour standard from ALL guys age limit/maturity level not withstanding.
Take your issue to staff, no result? Take your business elsewhere.
Flickdreams
07-31-2011, 02:24 AM
[quote=Melonie;2172398
But companies that are positioned in the 'middle' will face both the loss of customer base to the 'low' side due to pricing levels, as well as the loss of customer base to the 'high' side as the DINK's choose to spend a few extra dollars on better quality products along with being able to avoid screaming kids etc. This was the 'third-world-ization' risk I was speaking of earlier, where the economic viability of 'middle class' retailers ( and arguably the viability of the 'middle class' itself ) might become questionable. And indeed the 'no kids allowed' movement is a step in this direction.[/quote]
Ok Melonie, political/socio-economic repurcussions aside how do you FEEL when your experience is disrupted by 'Brats' (specifically poorly behaved kids) and how do you handle said situation?
Melonie
07-31-2011, 04:04 AM
^^^ one of the side effects of my moving way south of the border is that there are essentially zero children ( locals OR vacationers ) in the unabashedly upscale locations that I tend to be found at !!!
However, back in the states, I have had countless negative experiences with unruly kids ... from airlines to movie theatres to restaurants to supermarkets to 'you name it'. As I posted earlier, patronizing more upscale venues tended to vastly reduce such negative experiences ... most probably because families with children who can afford to patronize upscale venues can also afford to send their kids to private schools and otherwise teach them to be respectful and well behaved. In the way of a personal opinion, I raised my own son to be respectful and well behaved WITHOUT being able to afford the private school option ( he's in his early 20's now ), but the discipline / punishments required to do so back then in the face of my son's being constantly exposed to massively unruly kids in public school and in the 'poor' neighborhood would probably not go over too well these days with 'progressive' New York policies regarding the acceptable practices for the disciplining of children. Or put another way, you can only accomplish so much with a 'time out' !!!
But with certain businesses ( like commercial airlines and movie theatres ) there really isn't any upscale option available to reduce the probability of having to deal with unruly kids ... or hasn't been prior to the recent enactment of 'no kids' policies. So yes I have certainly been upset in the past after spending a significant amount of money to see a major movie and not being able to hear it due to the 'welfare mom' and her three unruly kids seated behind me ... or after spending a significant amount of money for a cross-country commercial airline ticket and having an unruly kid seated next to me with unconcerned parents in the row ahead.
I agree in principle with your assertion that the movie theaters / commercial airlines should bear some responsibility to 'compensate' paying customers for having to endure a 'negative' experience as the result of allowing unruly kids to 'run amuck' in their place of business. Obviously they don't, and they never will ! However, this opens the door of opportunity for businesses that are enacting 'no kids' policies to make a de-facto business 'choice' as to whether they would be financially better off collecting the extra movie ticket revenue from the 'welfare mom' and her three unruly kids ( who piss and moan throughout the movie that they want drinks / snacks / popcorn that mom cannot afford to buy for them ) versus collecting movie ticket plus concession stand revenues from additional DINKS who would attend the theater performance if they knew they wouldn't be bothered by unruly kids !
~
princessjas
07-31-2011, 04:37 AM
Great for you and your kids. You're in the minority. Once you've had children ruin one meal, you might ask for a seat away from all children too. It's not a personal thing, it's just hedging your bets. I'm from NC too, it's as bad here as pretty much any other place I've ever been.
And I'm not saying you're one of these people, but a lot of kids are annoying as shit and their parents don't even realize it.
Most of the kiddos I see down here are polar opposites from the brats of NJ. It makes me wonder if my little upscale region of the triad is unique or if you lie about your travels. Most kiddos I see in public are of the seen but not heard old school behavior model (exact opposite of the brats I saw that scared me spitless up there...yea timeouts work whatever lol)....and I just dont get how a kid sitting quietly, not running around or being disruptive could be annoying? :-\ As for the restaraunt issue, it was a $30 a plate place, but we were there super early, during the week so if I had to nurse E it would be a blanket and a dark corner. No one should expect 3pm on a Wed to be prime date time anymore than I should expect Sat night to be family friendly.
I'd be a much bigger fan of kicking out in the most embarrassing manner the loud/annoying ones than just banning everyone.
Kellydancer
07-31-2011, 10:29 AM
This happened yesterday and ties into this. I was helping at a car show where there were these kids running around and putting their hands on the cars. If you don't know about these shows but people are very possessive about their cars and usually put no touching signs on the cars. My parents used to get so mad when people did this. Anyway, these kids were doing this and when confronted the PARENTS saw nothing wrong about them doing this.
The fact is we live in a society with entitled brats. Brats who are being told that they can do anything they want. They enter a contest and win an award because everyone wins. There's part of the problem there.
Aurora_Sunset
07-31-2011, 11:02 AM
I'd be a much bigger fan of kicking out in the most embarrassing manner the loud/annoying ones than just banning everyone.
Bratty kids, yes, I hate. I don't bear a grudge against well-behaved kids, but I still feel that sometimes I just want to be in a place with no kids. It's more of the "adult-atmosphere" thing. You have to put your mouth on hold and be on your best behavior when you're around kids. I have a friend in another state who I usually catch up with at a restaurant. When I go out and talk, I want to just talk. I want to talk about my sex life - I want to talk about the douchebags I encountered and use profanity while doing so. I don't get particularly loud and obnoxious and make everyone hear me or anything. I think everyone's life stories probably involve sex and profanity.
I've never encountered a problem when I was sitting around all adults. But, oh god, put me behind a table with children and suddenly I'm the anti-christ if I use the word "shit." I've received so many dirty looks for daring to talk about something that's "not for children's ears" when they're sitting next to me. I've had my friend shush me countless times and act all embarrassed because I say "sex" with a kid 10 feet from me. I get that a kid has a right to eat too and a parent has a right to go to a public restaurant, but I also have a right to enjoy the establishment and hold a conversation. It would be nice if I knew which places I could go to talk without worrying about damaging anyone's innocence or setting a good example. If I want to go to a place where I can just be an adult without worrying, I would gladly pay a little more to go to an upscale place that doesn't allow children. Sometimes adults just need a place to unwind.
For me, it's partly the bratty thing, but also partly just the idea that adults and kids need to be separate sometimes. There are places where kids can run around with other kids and just "be kids" - it would be nice if there were specific places for adults to just hang out with other adults and just "be adults" - well, you know, a place other than a stinky bar.
_Avery_
07-31-2011, 02:47 PM
That's one thing that I do (that maybe a lot of other parents don't agree with) is I don't censor my kids. I'm not saying I curse like a sailor, but if we're watching a movie and someone says "fuck"... not a big deal.
If there's a topless scene in a movie, again, not a big deal. I'm sure when my son is in his teens...it'll be awkward..lol, but for now..."nice boobies" (he says). lol (which...to me, is funny since he's only 3 and a half).
I would never expect anyone to censor them selves because my kids are around. I'm not saying it's okay to get completely butt ass naked and fuck and do lines off each other's asses..lol, but if a curse word happens to come out...not a big deal (for me). :)
I mean, I take my kids out in public, I know what the public is like...I don't expect the world to be an episode of Barney.
The world is what it is. I'm not gonna take my kid to "The Red Rooster"...obviously, but I'm not going to not take them to the mall because someone might say "a bad word". I'm not going to not watch a PG13 movie, because someone might say "asshole"....
I mean, have you seen cartoons these days anyway?!! lmfao! :p
(Adventure Time is one of my personal favorites) :)
I'm not shoving profanity, nudity and drugs in their faces...hell no, but I also am not making them run and hide if it happens to come around. It's part of society...and I want them to know that. I just, don't want them to wonder wtf a titty is when they see one..lol
I personally don't believe in censorship and secluding my kids from the world. I mean, of course, I wish I could just snuggle them forever, but that's obviously not gonna happen. Sooo...instead of hiding things from my kids, I let them know what's out there. Do my best to explain right from wrong. "Yes, that girl has nice boobies"..."No, it's not okay to go up and tell her she has nice boobies or touch them"..lmao
I don't want them to be surprised by the world. If that make sense. :)
Aurora_Sunset
07-31-2011, 03:15 PM
Avery, you're the kind of parent I love. Honestly, if everyone parented the way you do, I wouldn't see the need for any sort of ban. Kids would be well-behaved and not "made of glass." :)
lilykane
07-31-2011, 03:42 PM
Some parents do manage their kids well, but the truth is that A LOT don't. The other day when I was at a hair salon, some mother had brought her child with her who was just running all over the salon and being a brat. The mother would be like, "Oh, stop that" but did absolutely nothing to rein her child in, and employees were forced to stop what they were doing just to make sure this idiotic child didn't trip on a cord or burn herself. <--That is the reality of parents today.
As far as the whole "let's just ban obnoxious people" argument, my response is that if an adult is being obnoxious in public, I can tell them so. If a child is being obnoxious and I say something, that parent will scream at me and tell me I have no right to criticize her parenting skills (I use this term loosely).
I'm not saying I want to ban children from every establishment, but you can be sure I will patronize businesses that do.
_Avery_
07-31-2011, 04:13 PM
Some parents do manage their kids well, but the truth is that A LOT don't. The other day when I was at a hair salon, some mother had brought her child with her who was just running all over the salon and being a brat. The mother would be like, "Oh, stop that" but did absolutely nothing to rein her child in, and employees were forced to stop what they were doing just to make sure this idiotic child didn't trip on a cord or burn herself. <--That is the reality of parents today.
As far as the whole "let's just ban obnoxious people" argument, my response is that if an adult is being obnoxious in public, I can tell them so. If a child is being obnoxious and I say something, that parent will scream at me and tell me I have no right to criticize her parenting skills (I use this term loosely).
.
but for me, it's more scary to go tell a loud drunk to STFU because now a days, we don't know what adults are capable of. ESPECIALLY the loud, obnoxious ones. Who knows if they're carrying a gun, a knife...or if they know KUNG FU! :P lol...but really....
If someone is being so disrespectful in public to the point where they need to be TOLD that they're being rude and obnoxious, then who knows what else they're capable of....
Telling a loud mouth adult that they're being a loud mouth adult seems a little more risky then asking a parent if they could could please watch their kid.
(Yeah, you'll probably still get a mouth full from a parent who doesn't choose to parent, but I'd rather get that than a fist to the face from telling an adult that they need to chill out and relax)....and who knows what else.... :-\
(again, maybe I'm just being paranoid...)
Vyanka
07-31-2011, 09:10 PM
but for me, it's more scary to go tell a loud drunk to STFU because now a days, we don't know what adults are capable of. ESPECIALLY the loud, obnoxious ones. Who knows if they're carrying a gun, a knife...or if they know KUNG FU! :P lol...but really....
If someone is being so disrespectful in public to the point where they need to be TOLD that they're being rude and obnoxious, then who knows what else they're capable of....
Telling a loud mouth adult that they're being a loud mouth adult seems a little more risky then asking a parent if they could could please watch their kid.
(Yeah, you'll probably still get a mouth full from a parent who doesn't choose to parent, but I'd rather get that than a fist to the face from telling an adult that they need to chill out and relax)....and who knows what else.... :-\
(again, maybe I'm just being paranoid...)
I feel the same. A drunken adult like that, you call the cops on. Fuck that.
The child isn't an idiotic, it's the parent(who knows well). Tell the parent, if the parent doesn't do squat with their badly behaved child &/or yells for whatever reason... embarrass her and call the cops too.
BlkSharpie
07-31-2011, 10:41 PM
Who the hell would just drop their kid off in a random grocery store play room?!! :O
WTF?!
Call me paranoid or whatever, but I would never just drop my kids off in a grocery store playroom so I could shop. Who know what these parents are REALLY doing when they drop their kids off for free in some random place. That is crazy to me.
Actually, Ikea has this, and when kiddo was very young, one of our fav things was heading there, Id take her to the playroom and then loll about shopping for an hour or so...She had way more fun playing than walking around shopping with me, and I had a more peaceful shopping too. This kind of setup for mall and grocery shopping is actually very popular and the norm in Europe.
Its not a dinky playroom either...the one there was nicer than some playrooms and daycares shed been to. Never had an issue.
Anyway...I do think its not fair to put a flat out ban...Id prefer a policy in place where if a guest is being loud and disruptive, the establishment has the right to request them to leave...that covers screaming babies and adults who act like idiots too....while leaving alone those who know how to behave. Pretty effective I think.
Even for an outright ban, I think that 6 is a bit old...but I do think that an infant has zero place in a movie theatre. Even if its a G-rated family movie...the huge screen and loud noises 10 times out of 10 scare the baby, baby starts crying, parent spends the next 10m trying to quiet the baby and the rest of the theatre is like OMFkingGOD! This seems to happen in every kids movie I go to nowadays....!
There are a lot of places I dont think an infant belongs..mostly of the entertainment type venues, where there are loud noises or lots of people, or after certain hours when under aged kids shouldnt be out anyway.
Few things suck more than having a nice romantic dinner anytime after 10p..with a fussy whining complaining tot at the table next to you. Definitely no fault of the kid....who should be getting their sleep at home and is noticeably flat out exhausted...some people are just too selfish and lame.
papillonluvr
07-31-2011, 11:14 PM
Whenever I've gotten stuck out late with my daughter (long day at the amusement park, road trips) and have gone to a restaurant to eat, they've always placed me in the back, away from most of the other patrons. That way if my daughter spazzed, it interrupted less people. I've always gone along with this, no biggie. I totally get it. I was once a childless adult as well.
I like some "adult time" too. Parents just need to know where and when to take their kids out, and when and where it's less appropriate. Whenever I go out with kids, I'm always like "Where can I go that is child/family friendly?" There's NOT a whole lot of options, when you think about it. Red Robin, Denny's, fast food places, Chili's and Red Lobster depending on day and time, and local places...
I wish there were more kid-friendly options to solve these kinds of issues.
But banning kids from grocery stores? That's a bit much. Movie theatres I get. I still haven't taken my daughter to a theater, and she's almost 4.
As for airplanes-I'm going to be taking my daughter on a cross-country flight soon. I know she's going to get fussy-it's a long plane ride with a layover on top of it. But what am I supposed to do? Drug her? I plan on bringing along quiet activities and a portable DVD player as well as some gum to help her ears and a pillow and her favorite stuffed animal. But no matter what, kids get bored and fussy. I can't exactly put her in time out on the plane, but I will stop her from kicking the seat in front and running like a maniac down the aisles, but crying and whining will probably happen.
AngelKing
08-01-2011, 08:11 AM
I don't know what's wrong with me in relation to most other posters here, but I have never once in my life been honestly that annoyed by a screaming child, no matter where I've been.
BlkSharpie
08-01-2011, 08:51 AM
I don't know what's wrong with me in relation to most other posters here, but I have never once in my life been honestly that annoyed by a screaming child, no matter where I've been.
Theres nothing wrong with you, you're just a lot more patient than those of us who are annoyed by it.
I cant tolerate it at all, which is why I raised my daughter to be aware of herself, and her surroundings...and has never been allowed to behave that way in public or at home. To me, its about respect.
About flying, kiddo and I flew to Europe when she was 5 years old. I brought a bunch of stuff to keep her occupied, and even though it was a *long ass flight*...somewhere between 10-12 hours...she was fantastic. I have to admit, I was nervous...cause thats really rough and I wouldntve blamed her if she got fussy, but she was cool.
After we landed, the couple in front of me told me that they had to confess, they freaked out when they saw us sit behind them, and thought it was going to be the worst flight ever, but that they ended up forgetting there was a kid even sitting behind them. They said if I hold classes on how to travel with children, Id be a millionaire :D
Really though, to me its about respect, for herself, for me as her mother, and for the people around us...ones place in society. Its a simple concept and she got it...thats all there is to it and I dont get why more parents dont think thats an important lesson.
lilykane
08-01-2011, 11:42 AM
but for me, it's more scary to go tell a loud drunk to STFU because now a days, we don't know what adults are capable of. ESPECIALLY the loud, obnoxious ones. Who knows if they're carrying a gun, a knife...or if they know KUNG FU! :P lol...but really....
If someone is being so disrespectful in public to the point where they need to be TOLD that they're being rude and obnoxious, then who knows what else they're capable of....
Lol true. Of course, I am as tall as/taller than most men and I do have a pretty awesome right hook...haha but I can see not wanting to confront a loud drunk adult.
I think I was thinking more along the lines of places where I'm not expecting misbehavior. Like, I'd be an idiot to go into Chuck E Cheese or some dive bar with the expectation that people will behave themselves. But in places like movie theaters, dept stores, and hair salons I find it much easier to politely let an adult know they're being rude than tell a parent their child is being rude. Many times I don't even know where the parent is.
I love parents like you, Avery, who actually parent their children, but I feel like you're a rare breed these days.
When I went to lunch today, I sat on the patio with some friends and it was wonderful until this family came in with their four children and took over about half the patio because they had brought hula hoops for their children. ????? Why would anyone do that? One child was nice and just quietly hula hooped on the side, but the other three started using the hoops as weapons against each other. The parents just laughed and only once asked the children to move out of someone's way. LOL I actually made a point of "accidentally" pushing one of the hoops at the parents' table so that the dad was whacked in the head.
_Avery_
08-01-2011, 12:43 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me in relation to most other posters here, but I have never once in my life been honestly that annoyed by a screaming child, no matter where I've been.
I like to think I have a lot of patience too, but for some reason Wal Mart brings out the worst in me and the people I see.
A kid SCREAMING through the store because he wants Subway and the mom just ignoring him and doing her shopping as he just screams. Even my oldest was like, "Wow, that kid's a brat!" lol
I understand needing to get shopping done, but she should have handled her kid first...in my opinion.
I guess we all do things differently...lol...no way would I just continue to shop if my kid(s) were screaming about wanting some Subway. :P
BlkSharpie
08-01-2011, 01:13 PM
I like to think I have a lot of patience too, but for some reason Wal Mart brings out the worst in me and the people I see.
A kid SCREAMING through the store because he wants Subway and the mom just ignoring him and doing her shopping as he just screams. Even my oldest was like, "Wow, that kid's a brat!" lol
I understand needing to get shopping done, but she should have handled her kid first...in my opinion.
I guess we all do things differently...lol...no way would I just continue to shop if my kid(s) were screaming about wanting some Subway. :P
This actually reminds me of a funny story...Kiddo must have been about 3, cause we were still living in NY at the time. I was trying to get some shopping done at a Walmart and kiddo was acting out. Not bad like many kids Ive seen but beyond my patience level which is zero tolerance :D
I looked at her very sternly, and told her if she doesnt straighten up, no tofu for dinner. She got all :O and really loudly said "I WANT TOFUUUU!!!" Everyone within earshot stopped and gave her this look like...WTF did that kid just say? lmfao!!! I told her to knock it off then, and she was super quiet and perfect behavior the whole rest of the day...will never forget the look on those peoples faces though hehe!
mortalman
08-01-2011, 04:40 PM
About flying, kiddo and I flew to Europe when she was 5 years old. I brought a bunch of stuff to keep her occupied, and even though it was a *long ass flight*...somewhere between 10-12 hours...she was fantastic. I have to admit, I was nervous...cause thats really rough and I wouldntve blamed her if she got fussy, but she was cool.
I've been annoyed by kids on planes before (not gonna lie) but I was way more annoyed on a flight I was on by a woman watching a movie on her lap top with ear phones and laughing like Fran Dresher every 15 seconds :banghead:
Really though, to me its about respect, for herself, for me as her mother, and for the people around us...ones place in society. Its a simple concept and she got it...thats all there is to it and I dont get why more parents dont think thats an important lesson.
This is so true, so many adults are so self obsessed that they could care less how their actions affect others much less how their children might bother someone. Then again the opposite is probably true too, the self obsessed being bothered by everything because their comfort is so important.
papillonluvr
08-01-2011, 05:43 PM
Well, I had my first experience with a screaming kid.
My husband and I went to see Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 2, and some stupid parents brought their BABY to see the 3D movie...How STUPID!! Of course, the baby starts screaming, and my husband is all "WTF, are you serious?" Who brings their baby to a movie like that? arrgghhh....
Movie was still awesome, though. :)
MarvelGirl
08-01-2011, 08:10 PM
Oohhhh, Las Vegas! WTF are kids doing in a smoky casino?? I know Circus, Circus was sort of designed for families, but really is this healthy for the kids??
Almost every movie theatre in Las Vegas is in a casino. Expecting people who live in Las Vegas to never ever take their kids to a damn kids movie because they have to walk through a casino to get there is retarded.
BlkSharpie
08-01-2011, 11:16 PM
Almost every movie theatre in Las Vegas is in a casino. Expecting people who live in Las Vegas to never ever take their kids to a damn kids movie because they have to walk through a casino to get there is retarded.
Actually....The strip isnt all of Vegas and Vegas isnt all casinos, the tourist trap is a very small part of the city actually...Vegas really is a regular and very nice city outside of that area.
One of my best friends has lived in Vegas a little over 5 years now, and pretty annoyed with having to keep explaining its a great place for families...because people automatically assume Vegas is nothing more than 2 streets lines with casinos. Maps say otherwise :D
Sort of like how people think of Miami and assume South Beach *is* Miami..when thats actually a very small southern part of a tiny key off the coast. For the most part, people who live in a city that has a huge tourist trap avoid those areas.
So I dont think theres anything retarded about a parent going to a regular theatre instead of specifically heading to one in a casino...on the contrary.
sammii
08-02-2011, 01:14 AM
I remember once I was in a movie theatre once and this kid started crying, and someone was like "will you shut your kid up?" And everyone was joining in, and this fight broke out ... who brings their kid to The Dark Knight, anyway?
I'm not that annoyed but kids screaming (I used to nanny, so I guess I'm used to it), but I think this is a good rule, because some parents' don't know how to control their children. I hate it when a kid is obviously annoying everyone and the parent is ignoring it, or even worse, encouraging it.
Laurisa
08-02-2011, 10:26 AM
My son has behavioral and developmental issues, so taking him in public can be stressful. Because of this, I use common sense. If he is tired or overstimulated, I avoid taking him to the mall or the store. A quick run to Dunkin Donuts or the park (where there are less people) is more acceptable.
I don't take kindly to people saying that children shouldn't be allowed in public places. In restaurants, I think that restricting the hours that children under 14 can come in makes sense. For example, 9 AM - 7 PM is "kid friendly", but 7 PM - 11 PM is "14+ only".
14-year-olds can sit still during a dinner and don't make a scene. A restaurant could also create special seating areas for people with children. I think we should all remember that we were kids once too, and that trying to limit the places that parents can take their children (without reason--as in the place is dangerous or adult themed) is asinine and infringes on constitutional rights. If a business owner really wants to convey the message that a strong family unit isn't supported in their establishment, then I'll take my business elsewhere. Children are people, not dogs.
Kellydancer
08-02-2011, 11:08 AM
My big issue isn't banning kids but having parents WATCH their kids. If a kid is well behaved I have no problems and I doubt most people do. I do have a problem with brats and those are the ones who should be banned. I am tired of parents not doing their job.
4everresolutions
08-02-2011, 12:28 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me in relation to most other posters here, but I have never once in my life been honestly that annoyed by a screaming child, no matter where I've been.
Eh, it's not the screaming that gets to me so much. Babies cry. I understand that, and it doesn't bother me too much.
What does bother me is the 4 misbehaved kids running around the isle of the grocery store. Clearly elementary school aged, and old enough to know they should be behaving themselves. One slammed into me with his little "Kiddy Kart" just 2 days ago. My thigh didn't appreciate it.
When I'm at Chili's and I hear a whiny kid I don't really mind. That's part of the Cheapo-Chili's experience. It's when I'm at a nice sushi place and a 7 year old is throwing food around that I get pissy.
A local theater in my city has "Movies for Moms (And Dads and Grandparents too!)" in the afternoons on weekdays. It's a service for parents/relatives to go see movies with their babies - the movies are the same new release adult movies (PG13/R rated stuff)everyone goes to see, but they tailor the experience for infants a little. The volume of the movie is kept a little lower so babies can sleep through it, they organize a changing station right outside the theater doors, offer bottle warming service, have ushers with flashlights always in the theater, etc. Also, there's a "Toons for Toddlers" movie on some afternoons too - they show previously released kiddy movies (like Winnie the Pooh and Finding Nemo) for kids aged 3-7. Teaches smaller children how to act in a theater before they start going to "grown up" movies. I think things like that are a really good idea. Businesses should be more accommodating to children, and then children wouldn't be forced to fit into an adult world.
That being said; a lot of kids just aren't disciplined and taught how to act properly in public. When I was little, I knew that there were some things that grown up's could do only, and that was that. I didn't like it, and I would pout, but such is life. The lesson about not always getting your way has to be learned early. Or else you find yourself raising Angelica from Rugrats...
Laurisa
08-02-2011, 05:45 PM
My big issue isn't banning kids but having parents WATCH their kids. If a kid is well behaved I have no problems and I doubt most people do. I do have a problem with brats and those are the ones who should be banned. I am tired of parents not doing their job.
So should they put them through the brat scanner at the door before they seat the children? There is no way to tell whether or not a child is misbehaved, and allowing some children to enter the establishment while the 'bad' ones can't is discrimination.
Autistic, mentally retarded, and learning disabled children are prone to violent outbursts. Does that mean their parents can't enjoy a nice dinner? Is the child's whining 20 feet away from you really going to 'ruin' your meal? I don't think so.
The restaurant will most likely move you to a seat further away from the noisy child(ren) so you can eat in peace.
When you have a special needs child it is difficult to find a babysitter, especially one you trust, so for some parents the sad reality that a romantic dinner date for their anniversary has to be had with kids in tow.
Children who misbehave are not always the result of bad parenting. My son misbehaves frequently, but he has special needs and that is why. It is unfair to say that I shouldn't be allowed to bring him to a fancy restaurant because he might ruin your dinner if he starts to cry. Jesus, be tolerant. If you go to a restaurant and a smelly homeless person walks in they still have the same right to eat there as you, so long as they pay.
You can't discriminate against people.
The 'no kids allowed' vacation--I get that. That is a VACATION, a retreat from REALITY. BUT, in the reality of restaurants, shopping centers, grocery stores, and movie theaters you have to be tolerant of others--including noisy children.
ava_xo
08-02-2011, 07:35 PM
I don't take kindly to people saying that children shouldn't be allowed in public places. In restaurants, I think that restricting the hours that children under 14 can come in makes sense. For example, 9 AM - 7 PM is "kid friendly", but 7 PM - 11 PM is "14+ only".
I totally agree with this! I usually go out later in the evening to avoid screaming babies and misbehaved children and the other night I went to an upscale restaurant at 9:00 and there was a family with three misbehaved children and a screaming baby.... It just seems inconsiderate because I think that's a date time for couples. I don't mind kids during the day or at lunch even at nice restaurants but at night I feel like it's different.
BlkSharpie
08-02-2011, 08:13 PM
I dont want to come off insensitive at all Laurisa, please bear that in mind when I say this... But I do think you are taking it personally. I know its hard not to considering your situation with your child, but truly...I have not seen anyone make a crack on children who are disabled or have legitimate behavioral problems not attributed to parenting. Thats not what this is about.
The thing is...no one *has* to be tolerant. If one cannot go to a 5 star restaurant and have a romantic dinner because kids are running around the restaurant or screaming and such, then they can and will get up and go elsewhere. Ive done this...when youre set to have a $200+ meal, theres no reason to have to put up with it.
On the flip, even though I have been eating out with my daughter since she was about a month old, and she never cried, fussed, ran around a restaurant or cause any problems, I still only stuck to family type restaurants. My husband and I had our 1 year anniversary dinner at Red Lobster...not the sexiest place to go for a special occasion like that, but whatever....I would have felt horrible if kiddo for whatever reason decided to have a moment, and ruined the night for everyone else. I feel its my job as a parent to avoid situations like that, and not everyone elses duty to tolerate my childs bad behavior...warranted or not.
When I did take kiddo to the movies, first off she went to her first movie when she was 5...and for the next couple years we went to matinees when most of the theare was filled with other kids and parents...not at the late night/date night showings. And like I said, shes been eating out with me since she was a month old...for awhile there when I could afford it, we ate out about 4-5 nights a week....just not to fancy ultra fresh places on date night.
So its not at all a matter of kids should never get to experience things and places, or about treating them like "dogs", but about having an awareness for the situation you are bringing your child into, and whether or not the child will be comfortable, as well as thoughtfulness to others who are around instead of deciding everyone has to "put up with it" no matter how a child acts or behaves.
I do realize that I am *incredibly lucky* that my kid is as well behaved as she is...Literally, if she ever started to get too hyper or loud, Id just have to look at her and say relax yourself...or like my ex would tell her in french, suave...which means courtesy...and she would immediately chill out.
I get it that its not that easy for some parents, for an infinite amount of reasons..but even with how she never gave me issue at all, I still took measures to make sure that she wasnt in a situation that would make her cranky or act out, or take her out late night when she should be in bed, or to places where it would be more of an adult setting. Not everywhere that a parent wants to go is appropriate for children to be as well.
Anyway, I do know it, and I do get it that some people simply do not care what affect their actions have on anyone else around them. What is courtesy to one person, is to another an inconvenience. Cest la vie right?
BlkSharpie
08-02-2011, 08:28 PM
I don't take kindly to people saying that children shouldn't be allowed in public places. In restaurants, I think that restricting the hours that children under 14 can come in makes sense. For example, 9 AM - 7 PM is "kid friendly", but 7 PM - 11 PM is "14+ only".
I totally agree with this! I usually go out later in the evening to avoid screaming babies and misbehaved children and the other night I went to an upscale restaurant at 9:00 and there was a family with three misbehaved children and a screaming baby.... It just seems inconsiderate because I think that's a date time for couples. I don't mind kids during the day or at lunch even at nice restaurants but at night I feel like it's different.
Thats totally what Im talking about...and agree too. I dont even understand why a parent wants to have their kids up and out that late at night anyway...nevermind how others feel, its unfair to the kid.
I didnt realize it til I was working in a restaurant a few months ago and I got so many calls asking if we have age restrictions how many places around here have them. Our restaurant didnt, it was an upscale family restaurant...a nice option for parents who want the dining experience and bring thier kids along. But some places, understandably are not family-style vibes, and have a limitation on kids after 10p.
I once saw a couple trying to bring their kid into a club...and it was sometime after midnight no less...couldnt have been more than 10yo or so and the parents got into a huge blowout with the bouncer cause he wasnt letting him in...they argued that its not like thier kid was going to get a drink at the bar, just wanted to listen to the band and have a night out. That was a definite...are you effing serious? moment.... After they left, the bouncer said the sad part is thats not the first time hes had to turn parents away from the club with thier kids in tow and looking to party.
MarvelGirl
08-02-2011, 08:30 PM
Actually....The strip isnt all of Vegas and Vegas isnt all casinos, the tourist trap is a very small part of the city actually...Vegas really is a regular and very nice city outside of that area.
One of my best friends has lived in Vegas a little over 5 years now, and pretty annoyed with having to keep explaining its a great place for families...because people automatically assume Vegas is nothing more than 2 streets lines with casinos. Maps say otherwise :D
Sort of like how people think of Miami and assume South Beach *is* Miami..when thats actually a very small southern part of a tiny key off the coast. For the most part, people who live in a city that has a huge tourist trap avoid those areas.
So I dont think theres anything retarded about a parent going to a regular theatre instead of specifically heading to one in a casino...on the contrary.
Actually, I've lived here for over six years. The movie theatres are located inside casinos. I never said anything about the strip. Casinos are sprinkled all over the damn city and that's where the movie theatres are. If you don't know that it's because you don't live here.
"Regular theatre" my ass. I only know of two. One is a shithole located right on the strip and the other is a shithole out in Henderson. Actually, I think there are a couple more but they're shitholes too. I don't think I should have to go some nasty ass broke down theatre with my kid because you want to watch "Finding Nemo" in the town's nicer theatres sans kids. That's retarded. I'm also not going to avoid shopping with my kid or going to restaurants *gasp* inside casinos because YOU don't like it. I'm cool with casinos, that's why I live here. Expecting locals to avoid them is fucking stupid.
If you're friend gets sick of people thinking Vegas is just the strip, I bet she gets REALLY sick of people thinking we shouldn't be allowed to have families or use any of the entertainment and dining options available here because we chose to be "breeders".
Edited to Add: I sound like a bitch during this post because I'm annoyed that someone decided to explain my city to me. I made the comment because I have first hand knowledge of the subject, not just to see my pretty words appear on the screen. I'm going to break down Vegas for you though so that this is easy to understand.
Putting movie theatres inside casinos makes it easy for the tourists to visit the theatre and spend their money without having to drive around a strange town getting lost. Because of this, movie theatres outside of the casinos are not common because those theatres would only get local business. A casino theatre gets both tourist and local business. This is why the few stand alone theatres are usually very small, often delapidated and either broke or getting there fast due to the super high foreclosure rate in Vegas and the shit economy.
So, if you see a parent walking her child through the casino, take a minute to consider that we live in this town and we like to do things like go to the movies or eat at one of the many casino buffets that give locals a huge discount (just like other people enjoy eating and watching movies in their own towns). You might not want us in there, but the casinos do so I guess you'll just have to deal with it. Too bad, so sad. :(
Kellydancer
08-02-2011, 08:31 PM
So should they put them through the brat scanner at the door before they seat the children? There is no way to tell whether or not a child is misbehaved, and allowing some children to enter the establishment while the 'bad' ones can't is discrimination.
Autistic, mentally retarded, and learning disabled children are prone to violent outbursts. Does that mean their parents can't enjoy a nice dinner? Is the child's whining 20 feet away from you really going to 'ruin' your meal? I don't think so.
The restaurant will most likely move you to a seat further away from the noisy child(ren) so you can eat in peace.
When you have a special needs child it is difficult to find a babysitter, especially one you trust, so for some parents the sad reality that a romantic dinner date for their anniversary has to be had with kids in tow.
Children who misbehave are not always the result of bad parenting. My son misbehaves frequently, but he has special needs and that is why. It is unfair to say that I shouldn't be allowed to bring him to a fancy restaurant because he might ruin your dinner if he starts to cry. Jesus, be tolerant. If you go to a restaurant and a smelly homeless person walks in they still have the same right to eat there as you, so long as they pay.
You can't discriminate against people.
The 'no kids allowed' vacation--I get that. That is a VACATION, a retreat from REALITY. BUT, in the reality of restaurants, shopping centers, grocery stores, and movie theaters you have to be tolerant of others--including noisy children.
I doubt 99% of all bratty kids have disabilities so that's an excuse. I don't want to put up with kids screaming, throwing things, etc. That's bad parents. When I go to a restaurant unless it's a kid restaurant I don't want noisy people and certainly don't want screaming and throwing kids. If a kid can't behave and the parents can't control him he doesn't belong in a restaurant. Carry out if one must but I don't my meal to be destroyed by this.
I am very tolerant but am not tolerant of brats. And since you went there, I will state I believe many people who claim to have autistic children use that as an excuse not to control their kids. I've known plenty of people with autistic kids and they didn't act up because their parents were doing their job.
papillonluvr
08-02-2011, 08:38 PM
Eh, it's not the screaming that gets to me so much. Babies cry. I understand that, and it doesn't bother me too much.
What does bother me is the 4 misbehaved kids running around the isle of the grocery store. Clearly elementary school aged, and old enough to know they should be behaving themselves. One slammed into me with his little "Kiddy Kart" just 2 days ago. My thigh didn't appreciate it.
When I'm at Chili's and I hear a whiny kid I don't really mind. That's part of the Cheapo-Chili's experience. It's when I'm at a nice sushi place and a 7 year old is throwing food around that I get pissy.
A local theater in my city has "Movies for Moms (And Dads and Grandparents too!)" in the afternoons on weekdays. It's a service for parents/relatives to go see movies with their babies - the movies are the same new release adult movies (PG13/R rated stuff)everyone goes to see, but they tailor the experience for infants a little. The volume of the movie is kept a little lower so babies can sleep through it, they organize a changing station right outside the theater doors, offer bottle warming service, have ushers with flashlights always in the theater, etc. Also, there's a "Toons for Toddlers" movie on some afternoons too - they show previously released kiddy movies (like Winnie the Pooh and Finding Nemo) for kids aged 3-7. Teaches smaller children how to act in a theater before they start going to "grown up" movies. I think things like that are a really good idea. Businesses should be more accommodating to children, and then children wouldn't be forced to fit into an adult world.
That being said; a lot of kids just aren't disciplined and taught how to act properly in public. When I was little, I knew that there were some things that grown up's could do only, and that was that. I didn't like it, and I would pout, but such is life. The lesson about not always getting your way has to be learned early. Or else you find yourself raising Angelica from Rugrats...
This, exactly.
Laurisa
08-03-2011, 10:24 AM
I doubt 99% of all bratty kids have disabilities so that's an excuse. I don't want to put up with kids screaming, throwing things, etc. That's bad parents. When I go to a restaurant unless it's a kid restaurant I don't want noisy people and certainly don't want screaming and throwing kids. If a kid can't behave and the parents can't control him he doesn't belong in a restaurant. Carry out if one must but I don't my meal to be destroyed by this.
I am very tolerant but am not tolerant of brats. And since you went there, I will state I believe many people who claim to have autistic children use that as an excuse not to control their kids. I've known plenty of people with autistic kids and they didn't act up because their parents were doing their job.
How can you control someone with a nonverbal learning disorder, like autism? Or ADHD? Or Downs Syndrome? At some point there will be outbursts in public, even with children who don't have any disabilities. What do you think the parents should do? Remove the children and pay for a meal they couldn't finish?
I would never take my son to a movie theater at his age, and I certainly wouldn't take him to a 5 star sushi restaurant either at his age, disability or not--but if you were a parent that felt inclined to do so then you have that right. If their children are 'bad' constantly they are probably stressed and wouldn't want to take their children to a situation that required a maximum amount of control.
Do I think that some children are given too much freedom in public? Yes, I do. I especially dislike when random children approach my son and try to touch him or pick him up and that child's parents are no where to be found. That is a safety concern, a 5 year old shouldn't be picking up a 1 year old at a park.
My issue is that people feel like children who are noisy and disruptive should not be allowed in certain places. As stated before, I believe that after a certain time (say 7 PM) no one under 14 years old should be allowed to go into places that want to retain an 'adult' atmosphere. But asking a nice steak house to ban a noisy 3 year old (and his PAYING parents) at 2 PM so you can enjoy your prime rib 'quietly' is unfair. Unless the child was physically coming to your table and touching you or your food then there is little you can do about their noise level other than move your seat. There are older women that come into restaurants and talk loudly about disgusting, weird things but that doesn't mean I can ask the restaurant to ban them!
Tolerance is key. I'm fairly sure if a child was coming to your table and knocking over YOUR drinking glasses the restaurant staff would have them removed anyway.
Kellydancer
08-03-2011, 10:35 AM
Like I said if a kid is running around, it's the parents fault. The kid needs to be taken out of the place at that point. I'm not talking about kids with disabilities because these are a small minority. I would say 99% of all bratty kids do not have a disability. Parents at that point should have the decency to say they take home the food because the kid is a disruption.
DesuvsDeath
08-03-2011, 03:16 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me in relation to most other posters here, but I have never once in my life been honestly that annoyed by a screaming child, no matter where I've been.
For me... it's not so much the fussy kids... it's the shitty parents not DOING anything about it.
The idea that these people think it's okay for their kid to screech throughout my $100+ dinner is MADDENING. And then when they hear me asking the waitress to be reseated somewhere I can't hear the fucking kid screaming... they look at me like I'm a bitch.
I've literally been in a situation standing in a line where someone's kid was hanging out of his stroller screaming and crying and tugging at my clothes/hitting my ass... and I after the 5th time I'd moved up in line and this retard had pushed his kid back into range where he could grab at me... I actually had to SAY SOMETHING. How retarded are these parents that it doesn't occur to them to not let this happen in the first place?
It's just... the parenting these days...
I'm not a parent. So why are kids running around me playing tag while I'm doing laundry? Why is this kid tugging on/crying at me? Why do I have some kids chew toy on my suede shoe? Why is this kid putting back that head of lettuce he was playing with that fell on the floor in my grocery store?
What happened to the good old days where kids got hauled outside/to the car for temper tantrums so strangers didn't have to deal with it?
I would LOVVVVVVE child free establishments.
Laurisa
08-03-2011, 04:02 PM
Like I said if a kid is running around, it's the parents fault. The kid needs to be taken out of the place at that point. I'm not talking about kids with disabilities because these are a small minority. I would say 99% of all bratty kids do not have a disability. Parents at that point should have the decency to say they take home the food because the kid is a disruption.
Now this I can agree with, to a point.
If a child is being repeatedly disruptive then there is an issue of common sense. As stated previously, I would not take my son into a public place that required him to be still and quiet for a long period of time out of respect for HIM. He doesn't have the capacity to do so, and me expecting him to would be rude of me.
I think that bratty children are problematic, but generally unless the child is interfering with you directly there shouldn't be an intervention of the store owner. A loud child is part of life, but if they are smacking you or grabbing at you (or your children) then the manager should intervene (if the parents aren't).
There's no reason to keep debating this, most children who have behavioral problems have a disability or learning disorder or are the product of misparenting. I say MISparenting because the parents probably don't understand how to deal with their children effectively. I can empathize with these parents, and until you have children of your own it is difficult to gauge what you would do if you were in the situation.
My son is going in in 4 days for his $400 autism evaluation that the state isn't paying for. Apparently insurance companies in Michigan (state run or private insurance) don't cover autism therapy or evaluations. I'm looking at about $50,000 a year for his therapies, out of pocket...minus the small $700/month he may or may not get from SSI. There's also a $211/month donation program for 400 children available every year in our state...but that is obviously in short supply. I'm pretty devastated by that.
When I was pregnant I always said I wouldn't have 'that bratty child'. My son appears bratty and misbehaved, but much of it is out of my control--and his. Once he begins therapy hopefully things will take a turn for the better, which will be in 4 days. The problem is that disabilities and behavioral issues affect a lot more children than may be immediately apparent. It's better to just wish those parents and their children the best than to be so worried about the quality of the silence during your $100 dinner.
Kellydancer
08-03-2011, 04:19 PM
Now this I can agree with, to a point.
If a child is being repeatedly disruptive then there is an issue of common sense. As stated previously, I would not take my son into a public place that required him to be still and quiet for a long period of time out of respect for HIM. He doesn't have the capacity to do so, and me expecting him to would be rude of me.
I think that bratty children are problematic, but generally unless the child is interfering with you directly there shouldn't be an intervention of the store owner. A loud child is part of life, but if they are smacking you or grabbing at you (or your children) then the manager should intervene (if the parents aren't).
There's no reason to keep debating this, most children who have behavioral problems have a disability or learning disorder or are the product of misparenting. I say MISparenting because the parents probably don't understand how to deal with their children effectively. I can empathize with these parents, and until you have children of your own it is difficult to gauge what you would do if you were in the situation.
My son is going in in 4 days for his $400 autism evaluation that the state isn't paying for. Apparently insurance companies in Michigan (state run or private insurance) don't cover autism therapy or evaluations. I'm looking at about $50,000 a year for his therapies, out of pocket...minus the small $700/month he may or may not get from SSI. There's also a $211/month donation program for 400 children available every year in our state...but that is obviously in short supply. I'm pretty devastated by that.
When I was pregnant I always said I wouldn't have 'that bratty child'. My son appears bratty and misbehaved, but much of it is out of my control--and his. Once he begins therapy hopefully things will take a turn for the better, which will be in 4 days. The problem is that disabilities and behavioral issues affect a lot more children than may be immediately apparent. It's better to just wish those parents and their children the best than to be so worried about the quality of the silence during your $100 dinner.
The thing is though that bratty kids is a problem. By bratty I'm not even talking screaming kids alone but more of the kids running around and throwing things. I've had this problem a lot. I've noticed though that in many cases there are multiple children doing this, not one and the parents sit and do nothing. That's why this is an issue with me. I expect to deal with more when I go into a toy store than at a fancy restaurant. I actually don't even understand why parents would bring the kids to a fancy restaurant.
Trust me, if I know a kid has a disability I do tolerate it because it's not their fault. However, in most cases there is no disability but bad parenting. Our society now with its permissiveness is causing this.
Djoser
08-05-2011, 03:38 AM
Thread cleaned and reopened. Sorry about the delay.
SupaByoch
08-05-2011, 04:16 AM
I am all for it. I don't care if some people think they should be able to take their kids everywhere - I shouldn't have to deal with them every time I want to go to dinner. Whoever brought up the "kids table" point is right on. I don't know when it became acceptable to trot the kids into every single venue or event but I think that whole notion is just plain backwards. There are some places they just don't belong.
No one is saying they shouldn't play outside and should be kept indoors to get fat. Please, that is just idiotic. This is what backyards and public parks and playgrounds are for. Take them there to play instead of the restaurants where mostly adults are trying to enjoy a pleasant meal. When it's time for the parents to enjoy meals out, leave the kids with the babysitter or grandma or whatever. Ferfucksake.