PDA

View Full Version : Changes I've noticed in the strip club environment



KeithDoxen
09-03-2011, 03:11 PM
I've been going to strip clubs since the late '90s, and in that time I have noticed a fair amount of changes to the dynamics of the club environment and I was wondering if anyone else had noticed these or other changes as well. Curious to get input from both guys and gals on this one.

When I first started going to strip clubs, I was a broke college kid in the late '90s, so I was lucky if I would be able to spend 200 dollars a visit. Probably more like 100-150. Still, the girls seemed to "get" that I was a broke college kid and didn't hold it against me. They weren't going to spend all evening with me for my paltry 20 dollar LD but they would offer a dance and I would buy one and pay them and everyone seemed content. My guess is that there were a lot of big spenders back in those days who were benefiting from the good economy, because I rarely found a girl who was annoyed by my dearth of spending. I also feel like the clubs were much more relaxed back then, and now I wonder if there was a bit more training or maybe more looking out for the girls on the part of management.

I didn't go to SC's much during the early 2000s because I was in a couple of LTRs at the time, and then grad school, but after those relationships ended and I was back in the workforce, I needed to get my clubbin' back on! So I started going again maybe in 2007, and I found that the environment had changed a bit. Maybe's it was just the clubs I was going to, or maybe I was just getting older, but I felt like there were a lot of younger girls who were new to stripping and who didn't quite understand how their job worked. One incident I always reference from this time period was when I walked into a SC that was virtually dead on a Saturday afternoon and the girls acted like I didn't exist. There were like 3-4 customers in the place, and the girls were all just hanging out together, or chatting with the DJ or whatever. I left after about 20 minutes. Maybe the place was so dead that the girls had just given up making any money at that point, or maybe these girls were new and hadn't yet gotten the memo that in order to make any money they were going to have to sell dances. I have read some threads on this site that suggest that a lot of the younger, newer girls come to the club thinking their job is to hang out with their friends and get guys to buy them drinks, only to quickly realize that they can't even pay the house with that kind of business model. Anyway, just a change that I noticed.

Fast-forward to today. I feel like the clubs are getting really competitive, and by that, I mean that the girls are aggressively trying to sell me and all the other customers dances, and becoming more and more annoyed at having to take no for an answer. Also, I've gotten "looks" from girls when I say no to them and yes to another dancer 5 minutes later. I've noticed that a lot of dancers are trash talking their competition now. One girl recently told me that all the other girls in the club are on drugs and that I shouldn't buy dances from them. Sometimes one girl will hover behind me while one is trying to sell me on a dance, almost like she's ready to swoop in if I say no to the first girl, or even if I look her way. I attribute this to the bad economy, which has probably taken a toll on the earning power of the girls at the clubs. Girls hinting at extras seems to have increased too.

Anyway, those are the changes that I've noticed. Comments are welcome.

Anastasia Foxx
09-03-2011, 03:20 PM
As someone who has danced for 10 years, I've noticed a lot of changes in the club as well. I am retiring soon though, although I can tell you that at the club I work out now, there's a hardcore group of about 4 girls who actually get on the floor looking their best and spending time talking to customers. The rest of them seem content to sit together smoking cigarettes, getting drunk and bitching about not making money.

It's sad, isn't it?

KeithDoxen
09-03-2011, 03:46 PM
As someone who has danced for 10 years, I've noticed a lot of changes in the club as well. I am retiring soon though, although I can tell you that at the club I work out now, there's a hardcore group of about 4 girls who actually get on the floor looking their best and spending time talking to customers. The rest of them seem content to sit together smoking cigarettes, getting drunk and bitching about not making money.

It's sad, isn't it?

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, it is sad. I get the impression that this younger generation, Generation Y or whatever they're called, has a strong sense of entitlement and a poor work ethic no matter what field you're in. My guess is that you're a Generation X'er like me. I think our generation was the last one to really understand that in order to get paid we're going to have to work. But maybe the recession will change that, as the younger folks will have to compete with each other and actually try to do a good job.

yoda57us
09-03-2011, 04:04 PM
I started going to clubs in the early 80's-before there even was such a thing as a private dance. There have been some fairly dramatic changes over the years but I think the sort of "golden age" in the post LD era was from the mid to late 90's until the early 2000's. I agree that there were a lot more big spenders back then-expense accounts were regularly at play and that has pretty much disappeared.

The biggest change I have noticed is the tendency of some dancers to push hard for VIP at the expense of selling individual dances. I understand the idea of going for a bigger chunk of cash but, honestly, I've never done VIP in my life with a dancer that I had not already gotten to know at $20 a song first. This is primarily a trend with younger dancers who are, in my opinion, a bit lazy. It seems like they spend way too much time hanging out with each other or with all the cute "non-spender" guys. When they finally get around to working the floor it's with a "VIP or bust" attitude. This is a real turn-off for me. It's also the reason that I rarely experiment with a new dancer and stick with my favs.

Kellydancer
09-03-2011, 10:29 PM
I started dancing at clubs in 1993 until the early 00's and even in that time noticed things. However, I didn't notice it a lot until about a year or so ago when I went to visit a dancer friend still dancing.

The most obvious change I saw was the dancers. When I danced both the upscale and midlevel clubs had standards. To work at an upscale you needed to be a 10 and the midlevel club (these are basically bars with dancers to put it simply)you needed to be at least a 6 or 7. Now though I've seen 2's at midlevel and 4's at upscale. I have a feeling it's because there are more opportunities for pretty girls because of the internet not available when I started. Back when I started the internet was not common, so not as many jobs doing things like internet modeling or camming.

The other obvious change was the loosening of standards. Back when I danced was a weird time because it was right after the brothel/clubs were being closed and when gentlemens clubs were becoming mainstream and on news shows. The clubs that were opening then (at least in my area)were all air dance clubs with little to no contact. We had strict rules and I once got in trouble for kissing a regular on the cheek, unreal isn't it? The clubs I worked at were topless or bikini and I didn't have to work hard to sell dances. Dancers today are stunned when I tell about $400+ at a no touch bikini bar. Most of the clubs are gone, and the few that are around are no some touching at least and are generally nude. I think most do lap dancing too which back then was strictly forbidden. I think part of it is the dancers today are used to looser morals than Gen X.

Then of course there are the customers. They have changed for many reasons. Many companies got rid of the bank accounts available in the 90's to entertain customers. It's taboo to take a customer to a club because of sexual harassment and discrimination. Because of that many clubs have lost many upscale clients. Then of course with the internet there is more porn available online, including live girls, so many don't see the point. Then there is the economy and back when I danced it was good. Now it's awful.

KeithDoxen
09-04-2011, 05:54 AM
Then of course with the internet there is more porn available online, including live girls, so many don't see the point.

Yeah, I definitely think that the Internet has probably caused SC's to lose the customers that were only interested in seeing naked women, and that weren't looking for any kind of physical contact with them. There are a million ways to see naked women online now, and all are cheaper than going to a SC. That means that SC's are left with customers who come in because they want contact. Either high-contact LD's, or a VIP area where they can touch the girls, etc. And of course you have those that are trolling for extras too. So strippers today pretty much have to be prepared for a high-contact environment.

yoda57us
09-04-2011, 07:13 AM
The internet has caused more guys to stay home and see nudity and more for free. This has hurt attendance and, to a degree, also created unrealistic expectations from the customers POV. Porn videos with titles like "strip club blowjobs" certainly don't help...

For about a generation now MTV and bad rap videos have glorified strippers and stripping to the point where, in my opinion, too many women are getting into it for the wrong reasons. My kid is now 23 but she knew what a stripper was when she was about nine thanks to Music videos. I swear I had no idea that women danced naked for money until I was fifteen or sixteen! Dancing is a job like any other and the girls who excel are the girls who treat it as a job and take it seriously. Girls who see video depicting five strippers in a hot tub with a rapper and decide it would be a fun lifestyle are not going to make it in the industry. What they do is take up space and make it harder for the truly serious dancers to earn a good living.

Finally, some of the responsibility for the decline has to rest squarely in the shoulders of the club owners. The relaxing of hiring standards is a direct result of the entire "pay to work" nature of the clubs nowadays. A pulse and a house fee will get you hired just about anywhere nowadays on one shift or another. Club owners want full stages and lots of girls walking the floor even if half of them look like they should be competing for ribbons in the livestock contests at the state fair. A dancer fav of mine who has been at it for almost twenty years is always commenting about the fact that a lot of the girls she works every day would never have been hired ten years ago.

Lastly, the proliferation of dancers who are too ugly, too lazy or too stupid to earn a living with their wits are more than willing to do it by performing any and all sex acts in the clubs or offering themselves up OTC. This has turned many very attractive and intelligent women away from the profession as many of them are simply not willing to compete on that level.

Kellydancer
09-04-2011, 10:49 AM
I don't know that is the reason why clubs have loosened standards. When I started we had to pay at most clubs as well, though some were still paying. At that time you could find a club charging very low like $20 dollars or so and that's it (except tipping th DJ and other staff). I do think though that clubs got greedier and they do charge ridiculous amounts now. I've heard rates as high as $200 a night! No way would I pay that a night. I walked out of a club because they were charging $100 back then.

I do think MTV has caused a lot of it. There has always been videos that glorified stripping, but seems it got bad in the last 10 years or so. The type of dancer getting in is different than when I started 18 years ago (yikes). Plus today's dancers are far more open sexually than ones my age were. I grew up during a conservative times (the 80's)and I think that makes a difference.

There has a lot of talk whether less attractive dancers are more open to sex and I have to say they probably are. These women aren't pretty enough to make money from their looks like previous dancers so they have to add something to make money. Being that many of them are very open sexually themselves they see nothing wrong. In general I've seen this attitude not in clubs with friends who were ugly. They would have sex with many men thinking guys would fall for them. Never worked. None of them were dancers though.

minnow
09-10-2011, 11:22 AM
My starting frame of reference for stripclubs is roughly equal to Yoda's (~80's). The changes that I've noticed since then have been more liberal contact customs, and a large increase in number of clubs (and dancers). Later caused a dillution of talent levels at several clubs. Aforementioned changes were well under way by the time OP started going to clubs, and started gaining momentum/traction early in KD's career at many places outside her locale.

ITEM: The number of clubs listed in "Exotic Dancer" doubled between 1992 and 2005 directories. The number of chain clubs more than doubled during same timeframe. IMO, movies like "Showgirls", and one with Burt Reynolds & Demi Moore that came out in the mid 90's put the clubs more in the mainstream awareness. Result- more clubs/dancers chasing a finite number of customers.

As for more liberal contact customs: Word of mouth can be effective, both from customer "spreading the word" to coworkers/buds, and dancers migrating to different clubs. I know from my perspective- once I experienced liberal contact clubs, I often passed on stricter clubs/cities. I saw several CA, TX, FL, Midwest, and SW cities that were "no touchee" in early 90's close the gap on the more liberal locations by early millenium. The internet merely accelerated the trend, with review sites.

I'm not so sure that internet porn/livecam sites has resulted in fewer club visits. Internet screen is poor substitution for live club interaction, Mrs. Palmer has limited appeal.:D Cam sites expand ones venue, both as customer, and dancer. Someone down to their last 20 isn't going to visit club anyway. I doubt that someone who has the means is going to forego a club visit in favor of watching free porn. (Though there are fewer persons with means, many that do have the means have less discretionary $$, and time).

Lastly, I'm curious if OP is going to the same clubs that he went to ~ 1999, or if he's going to clubs in different locale.

KeithDoxen
09-10-2011, 01:51 PM
Lastly, I'm curious if OP is going to the same clubs that he went to ~ 1999, or if he's going to clubs in different locale.

Good question. The clubs that I visited in college, circa 1999 or so, were largely Deja Vu clubs out in the Midwest where I went to school. I did hit up some bikini bars in Baltimore in 2002 for a birthday celebration with friends, but that was a different dynamic, because most of those bikini bars seemed more like places where you go to get extras in the back. They weren't set up like traditional SC's, i.e., no stage or dancing or anything.

The clubs I've gone to from 2007 on were largely in the South, in Virginia and now North Carolina. So sure, location, and the specific clubs themselves, could have a lot to do with it. But I still feel that, by and large, Generation Y is a lazier generation than my Generation X, and that many of the 20-something dancers today seem to prefer doing nothing for multiple songs and then trying really hard to sell a CR dance to make up for lost time, instead of working consistently throughout the night, selling all kinds of dances and making their money that way. The Gen X girls back in the '90s seemed to be smarter in this regard. I think Gen X is more of a workhorse generation, while Gen Y is the celebrity-obsessed Paris Hilton generation that will have to learn someday that nothing in life is free ;D

JoeUnCool
10-03-2011, 07:20 PM
This is my kinda thread. I have several clubs that I have been to for over 20+ years that I can talk about. I started my visitations in the late 80s.
One was right down the street from where I lived in Atlanta. It was a no touch air dance club back then. In fact, all the clubs that I went to back then were air dance clubs. I even remember some girls getting in trouble for rubbing up against a guy. Breast enhancement was a novelty back then. I think sex has always been on the menu. I can remember being offered by a girl way back then. A girl came to join us at bar, I remember being way too drunk, but having enough sense to let the offer pass by. By the late 90s, they had put in VIP rooms and lap dances where the girls were much more frisky. I can remember being offered some pretty nasty sex back then starting about that time (ugh, no thanks). All kinds of touching was encouraged. You had to have a great job to get a job there, and all clubs in the late 90s, early 00s. Now, its changed hands several times. According to other internet boards, its a brothel.
The Pink Pony opened in the early 90s in Atl. Its always been air dances on the floor, even now. I've noticed that girls will sit in your lap there now where they didn't early on. IIRC, VIP came in in the late 90s there as well. Now, its all about the VIP. Some girls refuse to work the floor and will instead only do the VIP.
The last time I was at the cheetah, you could still eat off the floor. No touching on the floor. Girls can't ask guys about a dance on the floor at all. They added VIPs around the same time as everyone else in Atl.
There are a couple of clubs that are local to me now. They are the same as they ever were. No touching, no nothing. They added couch dances, but basically tell the guys that they can't touch or anything.
I've noticed that breast enhancements are still popular, but not as much as in the early 00s.
Basically everything has loosened up to some degree. Some much more than others.

rickdugan
10-10-2011, 06:13 PM
I really don't view the "good ol' days" with the same nostalgia as some do around here.

In terms of the clubs, there were less of them back then and most of those clubs were a lot more gimmicky than they are today. The hustle factor in many of those clubs was high, due in part to the fact that most of their income came solely from alcohol sales, and they were highly motivated to push drinks and champagne bottles.

And the dancers operated in a similar manner. While LDs were widespread by the time I started clubbing in the mid 90s, they were not the same version seen in many places today and dancers did not make as high a percentage of their income off of them. So instead they found more creative ways to take large sums of money off of guys, some of which would have put some fairly seasoned con artists to shame. I also saw my fair share of Academy Award performances back then and more than a few guys who spent themselves into the poor house chasing after the affections of these girls in an environment where heavy corporate spenders were not uncommon.

No thank you - I find the current environment much more favorable, even with its drawbacks. While it is true that hustles still exist, IMHO the girls today are, on the whole, far less skilled at them than the dancers that worked back then. Now one can also say that the talent levels have dropped - and to some degree this is true - but there are always clubs where higher end girls can be found if one needs a fix of 9s and 10s. And as far as the loosening of moral standards, what exactly is wrong with that from a customer perspective?

Now if there is one thing I do miss it is the ability to talk with a girl that knows the art of seduction, or perhaps one could call it the ability to make a connection, as well as some of those girls did back then. But on the whole I'll take this brand of SC any day over what used to be the norm back in the 90s and the first few years of this century.

yoda57us
10-10-2011, 06:37 PM
Now if there is one thing I do miss it is the ability to talk with a girl that knows the art of seduction, or perhaps one could call it the ability to make a connection, as well as some of those girls did back then.

You still can rick but it's a matter of deciding what you want. Don't take this as a shot at your preferred MO but, in my experience at least, the women who take the job seriously and have matured enough to carry on an intelligent conversation are generally not the same ones who are going to do OTC with you the night you meet them.

DesuvsDeath
10-10-2011, 06:50 PM
I think the biggest part of the problem is that girls these days just don't know what the fuck they're doing. Half of them hang around talking to their friends because "FUCK YEA! They made BAR MONEY!"
The other half knows it's possible to make more money than that but they don't know how to close a sale (or are almost too fat or ugly to function) so instead they badmouth all the other girls in the hopes that they can convince you that the only way to get a dance from someone who isn't too-high to function or going to give you an STD is with them or they offer cheap extras or try to give guys a "deal".

It's a combination of stupidity and lazyness with a healthy dash of "The TV told me that all I have to do is shake my ass mindlessly and people will throw hundreds of dollars at it but it's not working and I don't know what to do!"

lestat1
10-10-2011, 07:41 PM
I've been going to strip clubs since '96, but I haven't noticed much difference. There are a lot fewer clubs in my area than there once were. That's about it. I also haven't noticed any increase in my enjoyment of strip clubs over that time, even with the transition from broke college kid to guy with a career. Go figure.

Kellydancer
10-10-2011, 09:52 PM
I think the biggest part of the problem is that girls these days just don't know what the fuck they're doing. Half of them hang around talking to their friends because "FUCK YEA! They made BAR MONEY!"
The other half knows it's possible to make more money than that but they don't know how to close a sale (or are almost too fat or ugly to function) so instead they badmouth all the other girls in the hopes that they can convince you that the only way to get a dance from someone who isn't too-high to function or going to give you an STD is with them or they offer cheap extras or try to give guys a "deal".

It's a combination of stupidity and lazyness with a healthy dash of "The TV told me that all I have to do is shake my ass mindlessly and people will throw hundreds of dollars at it but it's not working and I don't know what to do!"

It might be worse now, but I've worked with many lazy dancers. One comes to mind. She was pretty, blonde with large fake breasts and nice body and by all means should have made a lot. Instead they was either in the dressing room smoking or at the bar drinking then at the end of the night would cry "it was empty tonight"as I am counting my $400 dollars. She was happy to make $50 or so because it's more than she would make at minimum wage. Women with that attitude in my experience don't last long in this business. She would also bad mouth all the other dancer and once called me a whore because I had a few regulars who spent a lot.

doc-catfish
10-10-2011, 10:06 PM
One dynamic in strip clubs that has certainly changed from the old days is that dancers and customers alike have discovered how inefficient a vehicle they are in getting what they want out of it. Think of how much e-mail and cheap cell phones have changed this.

I have absolutely lost any romanticism for the clubs, and while they have changed, sometimes dramatically, I think the fact that I've changed, and have a greater frame of reference than I did in my 20's, has more to do with that than those changes.

rickdugan
10-11-2011, 04:58 AM
You still can rick but it's a matter of deciding what you want. Don't take this as a shot at your preferred MO but, in my experience at least, the women who take the job seriously and have matured enough to carry on an intelligent conversation are generally not the same ones who are going to do OTC with you the night you meet them.

Indeed not. ;)

But then again, I don't believe that I ever claimed that OTC is the only entertainment that I derive from clubs...

I am in 40+ clubs per year and meet a lot of dancers in my travels. Each girl that I meet is different, as is each club and each city/town that I'm visiting. I've discussed my approaches to discreetly filtering for OTC potential ad nauseum and won't rehash them now, but suffice it to say that I play with the odds. If I'm not picking up the right signals then I don't get within a mile of an OTC discussion. In fact, I won't pitch it at all to girls working in clubs with certain characteristics. I've never worn out my welcome yet in any club, which I believe is due in large part to discretion in my OTC arrangements as well as knowing when not to pursue it.

When I come across a dancer who is funny, engaging, etc., irrespective of her OTC potential, I am prone to tip for time. But while I have found a few (non-OTC) gems over the years, they are rarer than I might like and I firmly believe that the inter-personal skill sets of dancers, as a whole, have declined dramatically over the years.

yoda57us
10-11-2011, 06:31 AM
When I come across a dancer who is funny, engaging, etc., irrespective of her OTC potential, I am prone to tip for time. But while I have found a few (non-OTC) gems over the years, they are rarer than I might like and I firmly believe that the inter-personal skill sets of dancers, as a whole, have declined dramatically over the years.


Well, you'll get no argument from me on this. Of course, your observation is the primary reason why (a) all of my favorite dancers are over 30 and have been dancing for quite a few years and (b) I rarely check out new clubs anymore when I travel.

KS_Stevia
10-11-2011, 07:36 PM
It all went to shit after I retired. LOL ;)