View Full Version : How do you categorize your customers?
luscious sadie
10-02-2011, 10:24 PM
from my side: one song is not even worth it. Getting the guy back there (however many songs), waiting for the next song to start (1), doing a dance (1), getting clothes back on / paid / back on the floor (1). So that is for SURE three songs that have been spent on one customer getting ONE song. I would much rather focus my time on getting someone who will make three songs worth my while.
from your side: when I dance, I don't take off my underwear during the first song. I don't get really into the groove until a few songs in. I don't start to figure out what you like and we can be compatible (do you like seeing my butt jiggle or my tits in your face?).
one song is absolutely not enough for either party. I don't care if it makes me sound like a snob. I see it as a waste of time.
chris91
10-03-2011, 02:35 AM
Sometimes dancers do get money from drinks. Often dancers have asked me to buy them drinks. They tend to order the expensive ones too. I think (in those particular clubs) they either have a quota of drinks they must get customers to buy from them or they pay a fine or they are allowed to pocket the difference between the customer price and the dancer price of drinks. Or the barkeep gives them water and the dancer pockets the difference between the cost of a drink and maybe a tip to the barkeep.
Dancers have also frequently enjoyed my sparkling conversation.
I'm aware that some clubs engage in b-drinking. Most don't. Either way, it's not an appropriate way to pay for my time. I shouldn't have to talk to a dude and poison myself to make money.
I too have enjoyed conversations at work. But never as much as I enjoy not talking to people at work.
Jessie_tinydancer
10-03-2011, 05:14 AM
Do you mean a customer just buying one dance can be a mindfuck? Not sure if this is a joke. I usually don't need or want more than one dance with any one dancer. It's just a lap dance - I don't get much out of it and there's nothing I can do in 1 hour that I can't do in 15-20 minutes. Often I am completely disappointed of course and regret even buying one dance. For me to want longer, the girl has to be very nice.
.
Yes if the customer is a douchbag and does the shit I mentioned... it only takes 1 min to make me want to give you back your money and seek psychiatric help. I don't think you get some of the types we deal with. Not all customers are just there to enjoy some entertainment... a large percentage have major issues which they don't mind unloading on us. Im not complaining. Like I said I comfort myself with my $$$ but just saying it does my head in sometimes.
If you are friendly, respectable customer than there is nothing to worry about. Theres plenty good ones out there too who are just a pleasure to be around. Im one of the few dancers that does consider some of my customers "friends" but theres probably less than 8 in the 3.5yrs Ive danced that I genuinely care for...
vs 100s that make me want to a) kick someone in the balls b) become a lesbian and/or c) gouge my brain out through my eyes. Many are fucking annoying. Theres a classification for ya. I think although some of the blue members here seem "interesting" I doubt many fit into that hatred category because they obviously like clubs and stripper and have a general interest in the industry... the head fuck ones Im talking about are probably douchebags in all aspects of their life... not exclusive to strippers.
Hopper
10-03-2011, 06:40 AM
I'm aware that some clubs engage in b-drinking. Most don't. Either way, it's not an appropriate way to pay for my time. I shouldn't have to talk to a dude and poison myself to make money.
Not saying you should. Some dancers seem to like "poisoning" themselves at work though. But for whatever reason, dancers do ask me for drinks and that is the only reason I buy them. In some cases they have to ask for drinks as part of their job. I offer them drinks if they give me a good LD and I like them or if they are hustling me and I like them. I don't offer drinks as payment for conversation.
If they go over the standard hustle time and I liked the conversation or the dancer, I tip them for that, even though it was their decision to hustle me "over time". I know their time is worth money - in the time they were talking to me they could have been dancing for other customers.
I too have enjoyed conversations at work. But never as much as I enjoy not talking to people at work.
I was just kidding. I have no idea whether they really enjoy my conversation. I know they get sick of talking to boring customers when they have to so I try my best. Outside of being hustled, I am happy to sit by myself and scope dancers for potential LDs. I can talk to attractive girls outside of SCs for free.
rickdugan
10-03-2011, 06:41 AM
If you are, why would others not be?.
Because others have more sense than I do.
This is should be obvious to everyone. But dancers don't lie and brag all the time.
Did anyone say that they did?
It's not a matter of just how much money dancers make, but how much extra work they are willing to justify above whatever income level they are satisfied with. Dancing is work and it's not always pleasant. If bem is right and this girl is "settling" for four figures a week from one customer, then that's still far above the average weekly wage. He said she doesn't like the work, so she is still getting paid well for the work she is willing to do.
This was not even remotely additive. The whole premise of my comment was to express my puzzlement over why the girls in bem's little story wouldn't maximize their takes during the time that they had to do so. While you made a vague reference to the unpleasantness of the work, your response was essentially that some dancers are only willing to work so much, which was already established.
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 06:49 AM
The whole premise of my comment was to express my puzzlement over why the girls in bem's little story wouldn't maximize their takes during the time that they had to do so. While you made a vague reference to the unpleasantness of the work, your response was essentially that some dancers are only willing to work so much, which was already established.
LOL, rick, while I completely agree with your observation I gotta say that if beating a dead horse was a moderating offense most of us wouldn't be here!
It's customer convo, the bar really isn't set all that high in here. The topics, the bickering and yes, even people bickering about the bickering are all part of the entertainment value!
Hopper
10-03-2011, 07:00 AM
Yes if the customer is a douchbag and does the shit I mentioned...it only takes 1 min to make me want to give you back your money and seek psychiatric help.
I see. I thought you might mean that I was mindfucking just by buying single dances, though that would be silly. I always buy single dances the first time simply because I don't know what I will get. But I rarely buy a second one anyway.
I don't think you get some of the types we deal with. Not all customers are just there to enjoy some entertainment... a large percentage have major issues which they don't mind unloading on us. Im not complaining. Like I said I comfort myself with my $$$ but just saying it does my head in sometimes.
Yes I can well imagine. I meet them all the time. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you should be made to put up with it.
If you are friendly, respectable customer than there is nothing to worry about. Theres plenty good ones out there too who are just a pleasure to be around. Im one of the few dancers that does consider some of my customers "friends" but theres probably less than 8 in the 3.5yrs Ive danced that I genuinely care for...
Nice to know but I don't bother to think about whether dancers like me. Experience tells me many of them are very good at dissembling. I just do what I can to not give them an actual reason not to.
vs 100s that make me want to a) kick someone in the balls b) become a lesbian and/or c) gouge my brain out through my eyes. Many are fucking annoying. Theres a classification for ya. I think although some of the blue members here seem "interesting" I doubt many fit into that hatred category because they obviously like clubs and stripper and have a general interest in the industry... the head fuck ones Im talking about are probably douchebags in all aspects of their life... not exclusive to strippers.
Probably. Or repressed douchebags.
Hopper
10-03-2011, 07:18 AM
Did anyone say that they did?
I think you and yoda are being a bit technical pulling up bem for basing his opinion on what dancers say. He and everybody knows what they say about earnings is unreliable, but what they say is still some indication of what's actually going on.
This was not even remotely additive. The whole premise of my comment was to express my puzzlement over why the girls in bem's little story wouldn't maximize their takes during the time that they had to do so. While you made a vague reference to the unpleasantness of the work, your response was essentially that some dancers are only willing to work so much, which was already established.
It was "additive" if you didn't say it. Why were you puzzled about something which you knew was already established? Of course not all dancers will work harder for the maximum possible takings. I mentioned the "unpleasantness" as a reason for why some don't work harder than they think they need to.
Not all dancers are there to maximize their earnings until the bloom's off the rose. Some are just there for fast money while studying at uni or while visiting from overseas. They are not all there to create a big future for themselves. Some of them just like the conditions and the fast money and prefer it to a regular wage job. Therefore some dancers will take the easier route and avoid a lot of the crap the harder working dancers have to endure for the sake of extra money.
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 07:25 AM
I think you and yoda are being a bit technical pulling up bem for basing his opinion on what dancers say. He and everybody knows what they say about earnings is unreliable, but what they say is still some indication of what's actually going on.
Your putting words in BEM's and everyone else's mouth here dude. You have an opinion and you are more than welcome to it. You have no idea what anyone else knows or doesn't know. Furthermore, chat boards are driven by chat, not mind reading. I comment based on the words that are written. I don't know any of you folks and I don't know how your mind works. I only know what gets posted.
luscious sadie
10-03-2011, 07:28 AM
Not all dancers are there to maximize their earnings until the bloom's off the rose. Some are just there for fast money while studying at uni or while visiting from overseas. They are not all there to create a big future for themselves. Some of them just like the conditions and the fast money and prefer it to a regular wage job. Therefore some dancers will take the easier route and avoid a lot of the crap the harder working dancers have to endure for the sake of extra money.
this argument always pisses me off.
Hopper
10-03-2011, 07:48 AM
Your putting words in BEM's and everyone else's mouth here dude. You have an opinion and you are more than welcome to it. You have no idea what anyone else knows or doesn't know.
Really? I was basically saying the same thing you said to bem earlier in this thread.
Furthermore, chat boards are driven by chat, not mind reading. I comment based on the words that are written. I don't know any of you folks and I don't know how your mind works. I only know what gets posted.
Bem did say that he knows what I said is true, after you told him he should know it's true, implying that you think he does.
Or to use your usual rationale: It was my interpretation of what you and bem said, based on what was posted, which I'm entitled to, and you are entitled to your own interpretation. It's just a chat site, dude!
Hopper
10-03-2011, 07:49 AM
this argument always pisses me off.
What argument?
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 07:56 AM
Or to use your usual rationale: It was my interpretation of what you and bem said, based on what was posted, which I'm entitled to, and you are entitled to your own interpretation. It's just a chat site, dude!
Congratulations Hopper. You've just out-bemed bem!
rickdugan
10-03-2011, 08:25 AM
LOL, rick, while I completely agree with your observation I gotta say that if beating a dead horse was a moderating offense most of us wouldn't be here!
Idk, but I tend to believe that one should only bother making an argument when it responds to the most recently made point, rather than simply regurgitatiing the very thing that the previous point was trying to address.
Just call me a purist. ;)
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 08:35 AM
Idk, but I tend to believe that one should only bother making an argument when it responds to the most recently made point, rather than simply regurgitatiing the very thing that the previous point was trying to address.
Just call me a purist. ;)
While I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you rick I guess I just accept the circular argument scenario as part of the fun. For me there is nothing earth shattering going on here. It's the nature of chat boards. Folks want to have their say even if it's just repeating what someone else already said.
rickdugan
10-03-2011, 09:05 AM
I think you and yoda are being a bit technical pulling up bem for basing his opinion on what dancers say. He and everybody knows what they say about earnings is unreliable, but what they say is still some indication of what's actually going on.
What yoda said, and quite well at that. You know what assuming does...;)
It was "additive" if you didn't say it.
How else would you interpret this?:
Generally but not always true. One friend of mine had a guy easily channeling four figures a week to her and she did virtually no dances with anyone else because she despised the work so much she often put off a lot of guys. She might dance when asked but she never did the asking.
You want us to read bem's mind and make assumptions about what he does and does not know, but we cannot form any starting point from this? Would you assume that she was trying to maximize her earnings based upon those comments?
Why were you puzzled about something which you knew was already established? Of course not all dancers will work harder for the maximum possible takings. I mentioned the "unpleasantness" as a reason for why some don't work harder than they think they need to.
Not all dancers are there to maximize their earnings until the bloom's off the rose. Some are just there for fast money while studying at uni or while visiting from overseas. They are not all there to create a big future for themselves. Some of them just like the conditions and the fast money and prefer it to a regular wage job. Therefore some dancers will take the easier route and avoid a lot of the crap the harder working dancers have to endure for the sake of extra money.
Now we are getting somewhere. Yes, all of this is true also IME, and for the girls that work as full time dancers, IMHO those attitudes can lead to burning away a lot of good years.
I have also seen my fair share of girls who do this for a long time and come out the back end with nothing to show for it. What's worse is the fact that these girls often forego other opportunities in order to dance and, when they can simply no longer do so, they are older with non-existent resumes and few marketable skills.
I have also seen a number of veteran dancers who looked like they probably should have retired long ago, but continued to dance because they needed to. One can only imagine how much cash they let slip through their hands over the years, both in terms of blown money and missed opportunities, in order to come to that sorry state, but there it is.
Conversely, I have also seen a couple that came out of the backend in really great shape, ala Melonie and a few others around here. These were girls who had the right mindset and plowed through night after night, all the while purchasing their homes and putting money aside with the understanding that a dancing career has a limited life span.
Net-net, while bem's "friend" might have made decent money, she left a lot of money on the table, a fact she may someday regret. However, it is also amazing to me how common this phenomenon seems to be in the SC business. It truly makes me wonder why a girl would ever do this job, particularly with all of its difficulties, if all she is going to make from it is enough to pay today's rent.
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 03:39 PM
Yoda and I differ on the specific definition of banking but he hasn't challenged the way I've applied my definition to these common acquaintances of ours. (of course, now he just might, LOL). And for the record, it was the older one i was primarily referring to when discussing the topic.
LMAO! "common acquaintances"? I barely know the older of these two ladies-I was a customer for about six weeks over five years ago. I don't know the younger one at all. She's not an acquaintance of mine in any sense of the word unless you count us both being in the same club at the same time. Over several years and through two different clubs she never said hello to me and never once approached me trying to sell a dance. Not once. Ever. Now, don't get me wrong. I didn't really care at the time since she never seemed to be in a very good mood and, for me, mood trumps looks every single time. I do however think that she is a perfect example of a woman going out of her way not to maximize revenue ( lol, I'm not gonna use the word bank!)
Now, please understand I don't care why she never approached me-she's certainly not the only dancer who never did. The common thread however among all of them keeps coming around to the same thing-they always looked unhappy at work.
I'm not going to criticize your criteria for judging your various friend's standing as top earners in their clubs Bem simply because, as far as I'm concerned, you will never have enough information to make even the most basic determination with any accuracy. They are your friends and we all want our friends to do well. I can certainly understand that.
Hopper
10-03-2011, 04:28 PM
Congratulations Hopper. You've just out-bemed bem!
Yes I remember bem using the same dodge, but it is the same one you have often resorted to yourself. You misinterpret the words somebody posted, then when he corrects you, you claim that you are "just going by his words", and then when he repeats that that is exactly what you are not doing, you say that it is your opinion that it is what he said and "hey, dude, it's just a chat site where people post their own opinions about stuff". (Yes, but the reason for having a forum is to consider other people's opinions as well, not just post yours. Otherwise we could all just say our opinions in the shower.) And now you are telling me "not to put words in other people's mouths"? Congratulations, yoda, you just out-yoda-ed yoda. I wouldn't have thought it possible, but in hindsight I should have expected it.
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 04:56 PM
Yes I remember bem using the same dodge, but it is the same one you have often resorted to yourself. You misinterpret the words somebody posted
Actually it's not misinterpretation Hopper. It's my interpretation. I'm entitled (just as anyone reading here) to draw my own conclusions from another person's post. If he wants to clarify his position after I respond that's fine but that doesn't mean I misunderstood, it just means I couldn't read his mind when I responded to the words on the page. The whole debate about the word "bank" is a perfect example. Once Bem, myself and a few other posters had our say I for one backed off a bit on my stance as it became obvious that the word does in deed have different interpretations beyond what I have always understood it to be.
Your right about one thing. I use the "dude, it's just a chat board" line all the time. I use it not only to put perspective on some of the silly debates (my personal favorite being folks who criticize the content instead of just ignoring it if they are not interested) but also because a chat board, by nature, is always going to be full of misunderstandings, misinterpretations, intentional vagueness, overtly frank and sometimes purposefully mean talk. It's partly due to the anonymous nature of the internet and also to the simple fact that, without visual or verbal inflections, it is often difficult to figure out where people are coming from...
Oddly enough, with all the years I've been around this board and the hundreds of posters I have interacted with I only seem to get involved in these argumentative gymnastics with a relatively small group of people...
Hopper
10-03-2011, 05:17 PM
What yoda said, and quite well at that. You know what assuming does...;)
Yes, because that's what yoda did when he made that comment.
How else would you interpret this?:
You want us to read bem's mind and make assumptions about what he does and does not know, but we cannot form any starting point from this? Would you assume that she was trying to maximize her earnings based upon those comments?
I thought you were saying my comment "was not remotely additive", not bem's. But my "vague statement" was not restating something which was "already established", although it should be obvious, i.e. a dancer will "settle" because she is not necessarily willing to do the work required to maximize.
Now we are getting somewhere. Yes, all of this is true also IME, and for the girls that work as full time dancers, IMHO those attitudes can lead to burning away a lot of good years.
Maybe so, but they are still making more than they would in a regular wage job.
I have also seen my fair share of girls who do this for a long time and come out the back end with nothing to show for it.
Going by Jessie's comments here, even though they come out of it with less money, they also might be coming out of it with a smaller total of psychiatric bills and better adjusted.
What's worse is the fact that these girls often forego other opportunities in order to dance and, when they can simply no longer do so, they are older with non-existent resumes and few marketable skills.
I have also seen a number of veteran dancers who looked like they probably should have retired long ago, but continued to dance because they needed to. One can only imagine how much cash they let slip through their hands over the years, both in terms of blown money and missed opportunities, in order to come to that sorry state, but there it is.
I don't think dancers should stay in it for that long. But if they do, then yes I would say they should make it worth missing the other opportunities and make enough money that they won't need a resume when they stop.
But how many non-strippers, male and female, drag their asses through their working lives and forgo opportunities? The strippers are making more than those people.
Conversely, I have also seen a couple that came out of the backend in really great shape, ala Melonie and a few others around here. These were girls who had the right mindset and plowed through night after night, all the while purchasing their homes and putting money aside with the understanding that a dancing career has a limited life span.
Yes, Melonie is smart and has a nice shape.
Net-net, while bem's "friend" might have made decent money, she left a lot of money on the table, a fact she may someday regret. However, it is also amazing to me how common this phenomenon seems to be in the SC business. It truly makes me wonder why a girl would ever do this job, particularly with all of its difficulties, if all she is going to make from it is enough to pay today's rent.
If a girl strips and just makes rent, she is either universally unattractive or lazy, and we are not even talking about the difference between "banking" and "settling" anymore. But between outright laziness and maximizing, there is whatever balance a girl is willing to strike between dealing with jerks and making money. The rest of us will quit our jobs over one asshole colleague or manager. Strippers have to work for a string of assholes in one night. Girls like JTD and Melonie can smile and think about their estates, For less sturdy girls even the money may not be worth the abuse.
Hopper
10-03-2011, 05:47 PM
Actually it's not misinterpretation Hopper. It's my interpretation. I'm entitled (just as anyone reading here) to draw my own conclusions from another person's post. If he wants to clarify his position after I respond that's fine but that doesn't mean I misunderstood, it just means I couldn't read his mind when I responded to the words on the page.
Nothing wrong with any of that. But what about when the person doesn't listen when the other person clarifies his post? What if the wording of the post was clear enough and the "interpreter" just read something into the post that was not there? What if the "interpreter" doesn't even acknowledge this when it is pointed out to him and responds that instead he is going to stick with "his interpretation", without even bothering to justify doing so? Would you say that is "putting words into somebody else's mouth"? Because I'm pretty sure I've seen you do that here more than once.
When you claimed I was putting words into bem's mouth you didn't even say why - you didn't clarify.
The whole debate about the word "bank" is a perfect example. Once Bem, myself and a few other posters had our say I for one backed off a bit on my stance as it became obvious that the word does in deed have different interpretations beyond what I have always understood it to be.
I don't have a problem with how other people define it either. All I know is how I've heard dancers use the term.
Your right about one thing. I use the "dude, it's just a chat board" line all the time. I use it not only to put perspective on some of the silly debates (my personal favorite being folks who criticize the content instead of just ignoring it if they are not interested) but also because a chat board, by nature, is always going to be full of misunderstandings, misinterpretations, intentional vagueness, overtly frank and sometimes purposefully mean talk. It's partly due to the anonymous nature of the internet and also to the simple fact that, without visual or verbal inflections, it is often difficult to figure out where people are coming from...
True, but there is a difference between misinterpreting somebody and willfully dismissing what he says he means.
Oddly enough, with all the years I've been around this board and the hundreds of posters I have interacted with I only seem to get involved in these argumentative gymnastics with a relatively small group of people...
I get the feeling that sometimes the others are just being nice.
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 06:30 PM
Nothing wrong with any of that. But what about when the person doesn't listen when the other person clarifies his post? Doesn't listen? By reading it I am listening. It doesn't mean I am going to change my opinion.
What if the wording of the post was clear enough and the "interpreter" just read something into the post that was not there? What if the "interpreter" doesn't even acknowledge this when it is pointed out to him and responds that instead he is going to stick with "his interpretation", without even bothering to justify doing so? Would you say that is "putting words into somebody elses mouth"?
No Hopper, that's called disagreeing with someone. Is that concept unknown to you? Just because the other guy elaborates does not mean I am all of a sudden going to agree with him. It seems to me that you are basing an awful lot of time here debating the simple fact that, quite often, two grown adults will simply not agree on something...no matter how many times a point of view is repeated. I am not, by the way, obligated to explain myself. No one is.
Because I'm pretty sure I've seen you do that here more than once.
Disagree? yes, quite often. Put words in someone's mouth? No. My drawing a conclusion on another person's statement and standing by that conclusion is not putting words in their mouth it is simply not agreeing with them. You may, of course, disagree wit this.
When you claimed I was putting words into bem's mouth you didn't even say why - you didn't clarify.
Sure I did. I told you that you are not a mind reader. If you want me to start breaking down who said what when that's not going to happen. I don't owe you a personal explanation for everything I post. Read it or ignore it. I'm fine either way.
True, but there is a difference between misinterpreting somebody and willfully dismissing what he says he means.
Of course there is but I'm not necessarily dismissing, I'm just not agreeing, or changing my opinion. Again, explain or re-explain your ass off. It doesn't mean I am going to start agreeing with you. I try very hard not to indulge in name-calling here but sometimes I simply doubt what some people are posting. If I ever truly "dismiss" something that is generally because I don't believe it is factual. Again, it's the internet. I have no proof of anything-most of the time-but I believe what I believe.
I get the feeling that sometimes the others are just being nice.
Well, you would think that now wouldn't you...
Hopper
10-03-2011, 07:15 PM
Doesn't listen? By reading it I am listening. It doesn't mean I am going to change my opinion.
There is looking at the words and recongnizing them reading and there is thinking about what the words say in the sentence reading. No you don't have to change your opinion but it should be based on a reasonably sensible understanding of what was said.
No Hopper, that's called disagreeing with someone. Is that concept unknown to you? Just because the other guy elaborates does not mean I am all of a sudden going to agree with him. It seems to me that you are basing an awful lot of time here debating the simple fact that, quite often, two grown adults will simply not agree on something...no matter how many times a point of view is repeated. I am not, by the way, obligated to explain myself. No one is.
There is a difference between disagreeing and not even properly listening to what the other person said, either in the original comment or his clarification of it. In any debate, yes you are supposed to explain your opinions. You don't have to, but usually there is little point in stating them if you don't.
Disagree? yes, quite often. Put words in someone's mouth? No. My drawing a conclusion on another person's statement and standing by that conclusion is not putting words in their mouth it is simply not agreeing with them. You may, of course, disagree wit this.
Yes I disagree and I could back it with examples. But nobody would take the time to read them and I can't be bothered to go looking for them.
Sure I did. I told you that you are not a mind reader. If you want me to start breaking down who said what when that's not going to happen. I don't owe you a personal explanation for everything I post. Read it or ignore it. I'm fine either way.
Then you are also fine with me telling you you are wrong. It was pretty obvious to me that bem knew what I said he knew and even you said to him that he probably does. I don't know why you even questioned my comment.
Of course there is but I'm not necessarily dismissing, I'm just not agreeing, or changing my opinion. Again, explain or re-explain your ass off. It doesn't mean I am going to start agreeing with you. I try very hard not to indulge in name-calling here but sometimes I simply doubt what some people are posting. If I ever truly "dismiss" something that is generally because I don't believe it is factual. Again, it's the internet. I have no proof of anything-most of the time-but I believe what I believe.
The same rules of discussion apply on the internet as anywhere else. Intelligent comment and courtesy are a requirement for any discussion.
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 07:36 PM
There is looking at the words and recongnizing them reading and there is thinking about what the words say in the sentence reading. No you don't have to change your opinion but it should be based on a reasonably sensible understanding of what was said.
There you go trying to read minds again. Who are you to decide what others do or do not understand about another person's post?
There is a difference between disagreeing and not even properly listening to what the other person said, either in the original comment or his clarification of it. In any debate, yes you are supposed to explain your opinions. You don't have to, but usually there is little point in stating them if you don't.
Fortunately for me I don't debate by your imaginary rules. As I said, you can read my posts or not. I don't care. I'm not here to follow your rules of order.
Yes I disagree and I could back it with examples. But nobody would take the time to read them and I can't be bothered to go looking for them.
You would appear less silly now if you had never written this sentence.
Then you are also fine with me telling you you are wrong. It was pretty obvious to me that bem knew what I said he knew and even you said to him that he probably does. I don't know why you even questioned my comment.
If I could follow what you just said I would tell you why I questioned your comment. As far as you telling me that I'm wrong well, go ahead. We all have our opinions.
The same rules of discussion apply on the internet as anywhere else. Intelligent comment and courtesy are a requirement for any discussion.
Well, like I said before. I don't call people names. I'm not being rude, I'm just not kissing anyone's ass either. All of my comments are intelligent.
Yes I disagree and I could back it with examples. But nobody would take the time to read them and I can't be bothered to go looking for them.
Can you say the same?
Hopper
10-03-2011, 07:44 PM
Yoda gets alot of respect here because of the way he writes, and what he posts. He writes factually, crisply, and it's all very entertaining. I for one always look forward to his musings,
Well, you would think that now wouldn't you. I'm not claiming yoda never makes sense, just that there are big lapses.
and it is no fluke that many here agree with me.
That I believe.
Besides.....it's the internet, fercrissakes. What's to be had from phony niceness here, especially to another customer
I'm not talking about "niceness", I'm talking about the common codes which make useful conversation possible. People pretend to be nice in person too. Just because some people pretend to be nice doesn't mean I'd prefer they be openly obnoxious and unreasonable.
Now sucking up to dancers.....THAT I understand
I don't.
You put me on ignore some time ago and what you said in that thread before doing so made me glad you did. I wish people who have me on ignore would also choose to ignore quotes of me by other posters. Either you want to ignore my comments or you don't.
yoda57us
10-03-2011, 07:44 PM
Yoda gets alot of respect here because of the way he writes, and what he posts. He writes factually, crisply, and it's all very entertaining. I for one always look forward to his musings, and it is no fluke that many here agree with me.
OK, I'm blushing now...Thank you lopaw. As usual, the cool kids understand.
Besides.....it's the internet, fercrissakes. What's to be had from phony niceness here, especially to another customer?
Now sucking up to dancers.....THAT I understand ;)
Bingo! I couldn't agree more!
rickdugan
10-04-2011, 04:19 AM
^ I'm not claiming yoda never makes sense, just that there are big lapses. I'm not talking about "niceness", I'm talking about the common codes which make useful conversation possible. People can pretend to be nice in person as well as on the net, doesn't mean I'd prefer they be obnoxious and unreasonable.
You put me on ignore some time ago and what you said in that thread before doing so made me glad you did. I wish people who have me on ignore would also choose to ignore quotes of me by other posters. Either people want to ignore me or they don't.
Hopper, while I obviously don't have you on ignore, I now remember why I don't normally get involved in back and forth volleys with you. It is difficult to have a conversation with you or even to read your posts. Your writing style is tortured and your thought processes are disjointed, even from one sentence to the next in the same paragraph, and you seem to struggle in laying out your positions succinctly. You also seem to be intentionally obtuse when it suits you, not only acting as if you are unable to grasp basic concepts but also conveniently forgetting your own previously established positions.
To be clear, I am not trying to attack you, but simply pointing out that it is difficult to interact with you. Any coherent conversation requires both some common frame of reference as well as the ability to build upon previous statements, but with you it is impossible to move a conversation forward because the frame of reference cannot seem to be set and you have a tendency to disown or disavow previous comments as it suits you. So, in a nutshell, having these debates with you is like getting mired in quicksand and the process becomes tedious at best.
I stopped reading your stuff a few posts back and Yoda is clearly far more patient than I. While he and I do not always see eye to eye on everything, I have to say that, all things considered, he has treated you very courteously here. In fact, he may be the only one here who is still bothering to fully read your posts, nevermind taking the time to distill them (as best as one can) into coherent points and to provide thoughtful responses.
Anyway, just my :twocents: fwiw.
bem401
10-04-2011, 05:45 AM
LMAO! "common acquaintances"? I barely know the older of these two ladies-I was a customer for about six weeks over five years ago. I don't know the younger one at all. She's not an acquaintance of mine in any sense of the word unless you count us both being in the same club at the same time. Over several years and through two different clubs she never said hello to me and never once approached me trying to sell a dance. Not once. Ever. Now, don't get me wrong. I didn't really care at the time since she never seemed to be in a very good mood and, for me, mood trumps looks every single time. I do however think that she is a perfect example of a woman going out of her way not to maximize revenue ( lol, I'm not gonna use the word bank!)
Now, please understand I don't care why she never approached me-she's certainly not the only dancer who never did. The common thread however among all of them keeps coming around to the same thing-they always looked unhappy at work.
I'm not going to criticize your criteria for judging your various friend's standing as top earners in their clubs Bem simply because, as far as I'm concerned, you will never have enough information to make even the most basic determination with any accuracy. They are your friends and we all want our friends to do well. I can certainly understand that.
I actually removed that post (apparently after you quoted it) because this thread is getting tedious.
By acquainted I meant only you knew to whom I was referring and clearly you do.
Where did I ever say I made this judgment based on my criteria? All I ever said was general consensus in their respective clubs placed the two sisters as being one of, if not the, biggest "bankers" there. It was not based on anything either of them said to me or what I wished for them or strictly what I observed myself but rather the regard in which they were held by other workers in the club. The older one enjoyed a special "status" at her club and it wasn't because she and the house weren't banking. The significant time I used to spend in the clubs certainly made me keenly aware of the general consensus. Beyond that, I claimed no special insight.
Your remarks regarding the younger one are "spot on". She banked but came nowhere maximizing what she could have made. No other dancer I knew even came close to demonstrating her intense dislike for the job and virtually everyone there so her lack of reaction to you was "par for the course" for her.
Hopper
10-04-2011, 06:31 AM
Hopper, some people may have you on ignore simply because it is difficult to have a conversation with you or even to read your posts.
I wasn't complaining. The people who have me on ignore (the ones I know of) are those I want to be ignored by. It saves me putting them on ignore. That way I don't get any stupid or bitchy comments from them and I can still read what they post. They are unreasonable, ignorant, bitchy and vindictive people.
One of them put me on ignore because I told her she is wrong to criticize homosexuals who seek therapy, because it is not her choice to make. She responded with vile abuse and then put me on ignore. A dancer who has me on ignore periodically brings up her old charge that I am a sexual predator, which has no basis in anything I ever said. She is motivated by pure vindictiveness and the need to save face over her charge being proven unjustified. Another dancer used to make bitchy comments to me for I don't know what reason and eventually she got tired of me standing up for myself and put me on ignore.
Do any of those sound like they are about my writing style? Could I have prevented them by expressing myself more clearly? Were they even trying to have a conversation with me?
While I obviously don't have you on ignore, I now remember why I don't normally get involved in back and forth volleys with you, the reasons for which include the following:
(1) your writing style is tortured and your thought processes are disjointed, even from one sentence to the next in the same paragraph;
(2) you insert a lot of excess fluff and truisms in your posts;
(3) you seem, at times, to be intentionally obtuse when it suits you, not only acting as if you are unable to grasp basic concepts but also conveniently forgetting your own previously established positions; and
(4) you post in large blocks and seem to struggle in laying out your positions succinctly. Now I am not sure if (1) and (2) above should be considered the root causes of this or if all of these points are symptoms of some other issue, and I'll let brighter minds than my own try to figure that out, but the net effect is that reading and distilling down your posts can be very frustrating. To be clear, I am not trying to attack you, but simply to point out that it is difficult to interact with you on this board for the reasons noted above.
At times I have posted comments which I could later see were very poorly constructed. This is usually happens in discussions which have become very convoluted. Sometimes I was struggle to unpack other people's misunderstandings or I fail to understand other people's comments. Sometimes my posts become disjointed from reediting them too much and not reading them through again afterward. However, often the things you listed above only appear to be the case, due to other people not getting the points I make. Many people are simply entrenched in their ideas and too lazy to think through mine.
The only way I can tell whether it's me or you is if you provide examples.
I stopped reading your stuff a few posts back and Yoda is clearly far more patient than I.
Presumptuous comment. Who says that's my fault in either case?
While he and I do not always see eye to eye on everything, I have to say that, all things considered, he has treated you very courteously here.
Is there any reason he shouldn't? It's the least I expect from anybody. Does he want a Mickey Mouse badge for that?
In fact, he may be the only one here who is still bothering to fully read your posts, nevermind taking the time to distill them (as best as one can) into coherent points and to provide thoughtful responses.
My words are clear. It is obvious that yoda did not spend five seconds thinking about them and he indicated that he does not wish to.
Any coherent conversation requires both some common frame of reference as well as the ability to build upon previous statements, but with you it is impossible to move a conversation forward because the frame of reference cannot seem to be set and you have a tendency to disown or disavow previous comments as it suits you. So, in a nutshell, having these debates with you is like getting mired in quicksand and the process becomes tedious at best.
At times the common frame of reference is impossible to achieve, simply because the person I am arguing with refuses to question or justify certain of their own assumptions. I can build on my previous statements all I like and will never get past their entrenched ideas. Often I appear to others to be disavowing previous comments because they read into them things I did not say, simply because of their own basic assumptions. i explain the same very simple and basic points to these people a hundred different ways and they just keep on repeating the same litany. It's like trying to discuss world geography with flat earthers. You could take one of these people to the moon and they would still tell you "We can't be on the moon because the moon is in the sky".
Anyway, just my :two cents: fwiw.
Membership of the cool kids club apparently.
luscious sadie
10-04-2011, 07:01 AM
can you guys shut up? Splitting hairs is never attractive and it's like you're nitpicking how each other FEEL and INTERPRET shit just to have the last word. Obviously you don't see eye to eye. Obviously people find people annoying. Just find something else to write walls of text about since neither one of you is actually making any progress on the other. There comes a point where it's just rhetoric and not discussion.
yoda57us
10-04-2011, 08:45 AM
By acquainted I meant only you knew to whom I was referring and clearly you do.
How could I not? You spent well over a year sending me email after email telling me more than I ever wanted to know about these two and various other dancers that I barely knew...
Tedious is a good word to use in this case...
yoda57us
10-04-2011, 08:47 AM
can you guys shut up? Splitting hairs is never attractive and it's like you're nitpicking how each other FEEL and INTERPRET shit just to have the last word. Obviously you don't see eye to eye. Obviously people find people annoying. Just find something else to write walls of text about since neither one of you is actually making any progress on the other. There comes a point where it's just rhetoric and not discussion.
And yet you are still reading it...
Hopper
10-05-2011, 05:49 AM
^ No, it just makes it harder for her to scroll and change pages to read the useful posts.
yoda57us
10-05-2011, 06:14 AM
It's customer convo...
This is the land of "I thinks she likes me", "How do I date a stripper" and "What turns you on about stripping aside from the money".
useful posts?
OK, that may be a slight exaggeration...
I could understand people complaining about the serial bickering that occurs in CC on occasion if this was actually one of the useful and information-based dancer support threads. Actually, it used to happen in the club section quite a lot until customers were told not to post there anymore. It still happens in Other Work on a pretty regular basis. Honestly, a lot more threads get closed and a lot more mod points get handed out in the thread sections below this one.
But it's not dancer support in the sense that the rest of pink is, it's customer convo. It's what happens when you mix pink and blue and it's not always pretty...or useful. I happen to think it's very entertaining but I'm sure there's a lot of folks who don't agree. A lot of dancers don't even bother to read here. I think it's interesting that some of the most off-the-charts bickering used to go on in blue back when there was actually a fair amount of activity down there...
ArmySGT.
10-05-2011, 09:32 PM
I'm new here, so hello. It's kind of refreshing to be able to have a forum like this, where you can get real feedback from actual dancers. There's a lot I'd like to know, but I'll limit this thread to one basic question: From your perspective, ladies, what are the categories you put men into when you are working?
Customers.
What do you call someone that comes into where you work and buys your goods or services?
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Makes%20me%20laugh/Insults/OMG.jpg
lokikola
10-05-2011, 09:59 PM
I didn't read all that but I categorize them as follows:
Guys with money
Guys without money
femmefatale88
10-11-2011, 06:01 PM
I guess I'm a simple girl, I classify them as
a) spender
b) non spender
KS_Stevia
10-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Unqualified (no money, doesn't spend at all, doesn't spend on me, so unpleasant to be around that its not worth the money)
Prospect
Sale
Repeat Sale (Regular)
...and for some very crafty ladies...Residual Income
DaniellaOHC
10-12-2011, 12:08 PM
And all this bull is why I don't give a SHIT what the customers thinks/feels/says. Pay me, adore me, and then just GTF.
Hopper
10-12-2011, 09:55 PM
^ Gladly.
kitinboots
10-13-2011, 04:21 AM
Sweethearts or assholes.
Now of them, there are:
Sweethearts who spend - the perfect customer and a pleasure to meet
Sweetheart cheapskates - always a shame but if it's quiet I might return just for a chat
Assholes who spend - Hard work but well worth the effort
Asshole cheapskates - will get the minimum time and effort and I will warn the other girls
Now it's not all black and White, some sweethearts become assholes and some cheapskates eventually spend, but that's unpredictable.
JessicaCM
10-13-2011, 08:51 AM
Regulars. Locals. Spenders. Lookers. Wierdos. Assholes.
Happy2BSpoiled
10-22-2011, 01:35 AM
Regulars, soon-to-be regulars, short term customers (men only in town for a little while) and other girl's customers (not worth my time) ;0)
As for $100, I think that is fair, but so many other factors have not been mentioned. It depends on the girl, the club, time of day, day of the week, how much she normally makes, does she need a break, etc.
Tipping on stage - you can tip with two $10 or a $20 bill. Make it fun while she is on stage you can fan $30 of ones on the main stage. Tipping on main stage is normally best because it gets others to tip on the side stages. Some girls like for you to send them a drink on stage. They can get thirsty up there.
As for drinks, I know in the start of the shift I like drinks. It gets me going. If I have been doing several dances in a row, I like to stop for a song and have a drink. But if I have had three bottles of champagne I might not feel like a drink at the time you come.
Sitting for two songs to get to know someone is not bad, but by the third song you want to either tell her you would rather pay her for her time or ask for a dance. I hate it when someone says, "I don't want to dance, but I will take care of you at the end." "taking care of someone" means many different things to many different people. I like it when customers give me money up front or through out. Generally, $50 - $75/ half-hour when it is slow. At least $20 every other song when it is busy. Remember, this is not a date. This is her business. I know many friendships happen in clubs, but those friendships do not happen over night. The more time you spend with her, the more she will get to know you.
All girls are different. Some girls like to go on stage because it gives new customers a chance to see them. Girls in some clubs make good money on stage. In some clubs, girls don't make much on stage and would rather be "bought off" (buying wine or champagne) and spend the time getting to know someone.
I went on stage for the first 6 months I danced. In that time, I enjoyed getting drinks, having customers "make it rain" (money), and getting large tips on stage. But I have to admit sometimes someone would slip me a $100 on stage and I would not notice until I got off. Then I had no idea who it was. I liked it better when they would give me several $10 ($100 worth) instead. It caught my attention more.
Sometimes I would have one customer buy a bottle that would get me off for the whole day and then maybe only $100 - $200 dances for an hour or two. Some would only buy a bottle to get me off for a set and one or two dances. In that case, the time I would have been on stage would be devoted to that customer. On very busy days I would buy myself off because I could make more money dancing every song and only resting a song or two during the day.
So I would say there are many things to take into consideration. It's not how much money you spend. It's how much time you want to spend and then you base your money on that. We love spending time with our customers, but it is also a business. Counting songs is what comes natural to us. I know it got to the point when I would want to purchase something I would think of it as "that is about x number of songs." Sick, I know.