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yoda57us
10-25-2011, 05:18 AM
When a dancer does a vip at my club (half hour or hour) we must get a waitress to bring us to our room and do all the paper work and they always request 20% of whatever the roomcharge is. so for 30 minutes the waitress makes 100$ and for an hour she usually gets 200$.

I'm curious. How much is the VIP rate for an hour? How much does the club get? How much do you get?

simple(headed?)guy
10-26-2011, 10:20 AM
I'm curious. How much is the VIP rate for an hour? How much does the club get? How much do you get?

And what goes on in VIP? By the numbers quoted, if the waitress gets 20% or $100 for 30 minutes, that works out to $1000 per hour for the room.

rickdugan
10-26-2011, 10:46 AM
Twinkle Toes, any update on this? Did you find a way to manage his ownership issues or coax him into giving you more?

yoda57us
10-26-2011, 03:18 PM
And what goes on in VIP? By the numbers quoted, if the waitress gets 20% or $100 for 30 minutes, that works out to $1000 per hour for the room.

That has nothing to do with it. Why are you quoting me?

Raider
10-26-2011, 03:42 PM
^ I think it was because you asked the rate for hour for VIP. With the poster stating it was 20% for half hour equaling $100 tip...he was factoring it all out to be $1000 an hour for the VIP. $500 for half hour and 20% tip would work out to the $100 tip mentioned. Unless of course, there is a ''discount'' for an hour vs half hour.

tipthestripper
10-26-2011, 08:11 PM
It's 500 for a half hour - the club gets 100$ and if it's paid by credit card you get 400 dance dollars and after the club take 20% (80$) you get 320 and then 20$ goes to the managers so you get 300$ after all is said and done
an hour would be 950$ the club takes 150$ and you get 800 dance dollars after the 20% is 640$ and the managers get 40$ so take home would be 600$
alot of girls will discount if a customer pays in cash to clear the same amount and help sell the room.
as for what goes on in vip, just like any club , it depends on the girl. Alot of times a guy with that much money to spend is not looking for sex which he could easily afford elsewhere. But there are still just as many guys who expect more for that amount of money. It's harder to sell them in this economy and competing with the other clubs within a few blocks on bourbon.
But I guess the point I was trying to make is that most ask for the 20% because if they don't and just leave it up to the customer, I'm sure they would only get 20$ or less because they don't do that much work. Even a 10% tip would still be a nice chunk of change!

simple(headed?)guy
10-27-2011, 03:23 AM
That has nothing to do with it. Why are you quoting me?

Sorry Yoda, other boards (sports) that I use, when quoting a post will also include every quote that was in the quoted post. Didn't preview my post and didn't look back to see what came out. Didn't mean to imply you were involved in this, was basically just lazy with my reply.



It's 500 for a half hour - the club gets 100$ and if it's paid by credit card you get 400 dance dollars and after the club take 20% (80$) you get 320 and then 20$ goes to the managers so you get 300$ after all is said and done
an hour would be 950$ the club takes 150$ and you get 800 dance dollars after the 20% is 640$ and the managers get 40$ so take home would be 600$
alot of girls will discount if a customer pays in cash to clear the same amount and help sell the room.
as for what goes on in vip, just like any club , it depends on the girl. Alot of times a guy with that much money to spend is not looking for sex which he could easily afford elsewhere. But there are still just as many guys who expect more for that amount of money. It's harder to sell them in this economy and competing with the other clubs within a few blocks on bourbon.
But I guess the point I was trying to make is that most ask for the 20% because if they don't and just leave it up to the customer, I'm sure they would only get 20$ or less because they don't do that much work. Even a 10% tip would still be a nice chunk of change!

Thanks for the explanation. Maybe I'm just a cheap bastard ( of course I am, I'm a guy) but that's amazing. The club takes 40% right off the top (when paying via credit card) and on top of that the waitress wants a 20% tip. Out here in Phoenix, while I have not visited every club in the city, the most I have paid into VIP was $400 an hour, plus a small fee of $20 - $50 on top to the club. I've never had the waitress or hostess demand a tip for filling out some paperwork. There may have been a tip-out from the dancer to the hostess as the hostess was the one upselling the VIP, but that is information that I do not have.

bem401
10-27-2011, 05:24 AM
after all is said and done
an hour would be 950$

Any guy paying this amount, particularly on any kind of regular basis, has to be out of his mind or desperate beyond belief.

Dirty Ernie
10-27-2011, 06:54 AM
Any guy paying this amount, particularly on any kind of regular basis, has to be out of his mind or desperate beyond belief.

Maybe you should walk over to the science building and have the physics teacher explain relativity.

tipthestripper
10-27-2011, 12:36 PM
Any guy paying this amount, particularly on any kind of regular basis, has to be out of his mind or desperate beyond belief.

Working in New Orleans we make most of our money on tourists.
I know the high prices of the rooms has lost me money, but when I first started working there they weren't so hard sell.

yoda57us
10-27-2011, 12:46 PM
Any guy paying this amount, particularly on any kind of regular basis, has to be out of his mind or desperate beyond belief.

LOL, says you BEM. Some guys blow ten times that in a single night at the casino. Just because you wouldn't (I wouldn't either) doesn't mean that someone who does has mental problems or is desperate. Don't be so quick to judge others based on your preferences.

yoda57us
10-27-2011, 01:00 PM
But I guess the point I was trying to make is that most ask for the 20% because if they don't and just leave it up to the customer, I'm sure they would only get 20$ or less because they don't do that much work. Even a 10% tip would still be a nice chunk of change!

I tend to agree with you but asking, demanding and requiring are all different. I do VIP in a couple of clubs and I've tipped between $20 and $50 to the waitress depending on what she had to do for the money and how much privacy the tip got me. Honestly, I would never tip a waitress based on a percentage of the cost of the room and the only way she's getting $100 out of me is if she joins in! I don't tip for drinks based on a percentage of cost either but I tend to over-tip on that side.

If there is a requirement however that's a different story. One of my favs used to work as a champagne room hostess years ago. Her club actually required a $50 tip to the hostess from the dancer. Of course, the dancer always got the customer to pay it. Eventually, club ownership decided that $50 was too much for the CR hostesses and started taking a huge part of it. Note, they didn't remove the requirement, they just started taking a huge chunk of it!

I see this a lot-waitress get uppity and just plain jealous because they see dancers getting all the attention and, in some cases, hundreds of dollars in an hour. They want a piece of the pie. The best cure for this is to have them put on a G-string and 7" heels for a night and then get naked. Interestingly, the waitresses or barmaids who have actually worked as dancers seem to have a much lower sense of entitlement about this sort of thing...

Kellydancer
10-27-2011, 01:09 PM
Generally speaking I didn't usually get a tip on top of a dance, though to be fair these were clubs where I just paid a house fee and no percentage of dances. When I do work the clubs where I was charged a percentage I would casually mention this to customers. Some paid and some still didn't think they had to. I am reminded though of one regular I had who found out we paid house and all these other tips and would actually pay mine, including paying the dj. He also gave me money for dances and in return I generally sat with him longer than I would have.

I think a lot of this depends on how much time you are spending with him for free. If you are sitting there for hours and not being paid to do this, then yes I would mention this. Generally I only sat with guys who were paying me to sit with them (had a few)or big regulars. In both cases they were spending a lot for this to happen.

bem401
10-27-2011, 02:32 PM
LOL, says you BEM. Some guys blow ten times that in a single night at the casino. Just because you wouldn't (I wouldn't either) doesn't mean that someone who does has mental problems or is desperate. Don't be so quick to judge others based on your preferences.

When you look at what he is getting for his money, its a big red flag that a problem exists. Back in the heyday of clubs and porn, my understanding is that very popular porn stars could be booked for an hour in a hotel room for a price in that neighborhood. And anybody blowing that kind of money in a casino or on drugs on a regular basis would also have a problem. Such a person is perfectly entitled to do whatever he wants but that doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist if he continues to do it on a regular basis.

yoda57us
10-27-2011, 03:57 PM
When you look at what he is getting for his money, its a big red flag that a problem exists. Back in the heyday of clubs and porn, my understanding is that very popular porn stars could be booked for an hour in a hotel room for a price in that neighborhood. And anybody blowing that kind of money in a casino or on drugs on a regular basis would also have a problem. Such a person is perfectly entitled to do whatever he wants but that doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist if he continues to do it on a regular basis.

The problem here BEM is that you are the one deciding if a problem exists. P4P, Gambling, Strip clubs are all recreational activities. How people choose to spend their recreational time and money is their business and, frankly, you're not qualified to judge people based on how much money they spend on lap dances, black jack or sex. If a guy buys a boat or a vacation home does with his discretionary income does he have a problem? What about if he takes a vacation? Are you saying that sex with a porn star in a hotel room is a better value than an hour in VIP with a stripper? What are you basing that on?

Of course, you have a right to your opinion, such as it is...

Elvia
10-27-2011, 04:01 PM
If he's not tipping you, he's a waste as a regular. The whole point of working is to get paid.

Really? I would disagree. The dances are $35 and the club takes $5. So she's still making more per dance then most girls around the country make per song. If he doesn't demand too much time, I would say the risk isn't worth the extra few bucks. I wouldn't write him off entirely.

bem401
10-28-2011, 05:56 AM
The problem here BEM is that you are the one deciding if a problem exists. P4P, Gambling, Strip clubs are all recreational activities. How people choose to spend their recreational time and money is their business and, frankly, you're not qualified to judge people based on how much money they spend on lap dances, black jack or sex. If a guy buys a boat or a vacation home does with his discretionary income does he have a problem? What about if he takes a vacation? Are you saying that sex with a porn star in a hotel room is a better value than an hour in VIP with a stripper? What are you basing that on?

Of course, you have a right to your opinion, such as it is...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion just as everyone is entitled to do as they please for enjoyment. However, that doesn't mean problems don't exist. First off, buying a vacation home or boat is not the same thing as spending $1000 an hour on them. In fact if it cost $1000 an hour to keep them up and running or they lost value at that rate, then yes, I'd say a problem existed. If you lost $1000 an hour on average at the casino and continued going, then yes, I'd say a problem existed. If you bought $1000 of drugs a week and kept re-upping every week, then yes, I'd say a problem existed.

As to the specifics of our discussion, I'm basically commenting on the perceived value of what you're getting. Paying nearly triple the going rate for any experience makes no sense whatsoever. When you also consider that amount of money can probably buy you more contact (if that's what you want) with a (likely to be) prettier girl in a nicer (or at least more private) place, questioning it makes sense. If I was so inclined, I'd rather spend that amount of time and money with a girl somewhere other than the club if possible and for that amount of money it ought to be possible (and I'm not necessarily talking P4P here).

Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Dirty Ernie
10-28-2011, 06:54 AM
You seem to be closer to nanny-state Bem-"Hey, you over there! Stop that behavior which I've determined is not good for you.", vs the libertarian you claim to be. May be time to reread the handbook.

Or you could qualify your opinion/judgements by simply adding an "I don't understand how" or an "I could never do..." instead of finger wagging from the mountain top. High school math is a good place for absolutes, but this ain't high school math.

bem401
10-28-2011, 07:13 AM
You seem to be closer to nanny-state Bem-"Hey, you over there! Stop that behavior which I've determined is not good for you.", vs the libertarian you claim to be. May be time to reread the handbook.

Or you could qualify your opinion/judgements by simply adding an "I don't understand how" or an "I could never do..." instead of finger wagging from the mountain top. High school math is a good place for absolutes, but this ain't high school math.

I'm not telling people how they ought to behave. I'm making the observation that they could do better for that kind of money than a standard CR hour.

rickdugan
10-28-2011, 07:26 AM
I'm basically commenting on the perceived value of what you're getting. Paying nearly triple the going rate for any experience makes no sense whatsoever. When you also consider that amount of money can probably buy you more contact (if that's what you want) with a (likely to be) prettier girl in a nicer (or at least more private) place, questioning it makes sense. If I was so inclined, I'd rather spend that amount of time and money with a girl somewhere other than the club if possible and for that amount of money it ought to be possible (and I'm not necessarily talking P4P here).

I'm guessing that Ernie's previous point was too subtle to sink in:


Maybe you should walk over to the science building and have the physics teacher explain relativity.

Maybe the guy has enough money that the $950 didn't matter to him. Perhaps he liked the girl enough that he thought that it was worth it. Perhaps he just couldn't be bothered to spend the time necessary to find a "better deal" elsewhere. Or it could even be a combination of these things or something else altogether that makes it worth the price for him.

Value is a completely relative measure based upon one's preferences and individual circumstances.

yoda57us
10-28-2011, 03:42 PM
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion just as everyone is entitled to do as they please for enjoyment. However, that doesn't mean problems don't exist.

It doesn't mean that problems do exist either BEM. VIP rates differ all over the country and clubs and dancers work within the going rate in their areas. Are you implying that every guy who goes to a high-end club and spends maybe a few grand in a night has problems?


First off, buying a vacation home or boat is not the same thing as spending $1000 an hour on them. In fact if it cost $1000 an hour to keep them up and running or they lost value at that rate, then yes, I'd say a problem existed.

Spending money on a second home, a second or third car, a boat, a motorcycle or a hot tub could all be considered frivolous to some but not to others. The fact is, vacations, tennis, golf and dinner out could be considered frivolous. Does a guy who spends thousands of dollars a year on a country club membership have a problem?


If you lost $1000 an hour on average at the casino and continued going, then yes, I'd say a problem existed. If you bought $1000 of drugs a week and kept re-upping every week, then yes, I'd say a problem existed.

Says you BEM. If I walked in with $10,000 to spend and lost it all that doesn't mean I have a problem as long as I can afford it and I enjoyed the experience. Drugs are a different story. Even you understand that don't you?


As to the specifics of our discussion, I'm basically commenting on the perceived value of what you're getting. Paying nearly triple the going rate for any experience makes no sense whatsoever. When you also consider that amount of money can probably buy you more contact (if that's what you want) with a (likely to be) prettier girl in a nicer (or at least more private) place, questioning it makes sense. If I was so inclined, I'd rather spend that amount of time and money with a girl somewhere other than the club if possible and for that amount of money it ought to be possible (and I'm not necessarily talking P4P here).

The problem here is that you are perceiving the value that others place on their money. Spending money on women (dancer, hooker or otherwise) is a very personal decision. Guys like what they like. Your perceived value may or may not be someone else's. Economic circumstances obviously enter into it as well. I wouldn't pay a grand for an hour in VIP or an hour with an escort but if I was loaded I might...


Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Of course BEM. It's strikes me as hilarious but not surprising that you had to subject us to three or four posts full of judgmental poppycock before you came to this conclusion...

bem401
10-30-2011, 06:46 AM
Of course BEM. It's strikes me as hilarious but not surprising that you had to subject us to three or four posts full of judgmental poppycock before you came to this conclusion...

Actually, if you bothered reading the posts, you'd have seen my second post conceded that guys have the right to be as stupid as they want to be, but you prefer pontificating to that.

And you are right, I'm wrong. Imagine me thinking there's something not quite right with the picture when a guy is willing to throw Benjamin after Benjamin (or stacks thereof in this case), at girl after girl (who care only about the $$), in club after club, visit after visit, week after week, month after month, year after year? I didn't come to my conclusion as some outsider. I spent a year or so as a definitely heavier spending customer than average and came to the realization "this is ridiculous" and I decided to end being a target. Now we're talking about a situation here involving triple the money? I maintain that there is something wrong with being willing to pay triple-price for something. That rule doesn't apply strictly to SC's.


I will concede different rules ought to apply when we're talking a tourist town and very occasional visits. I'm perhaps influenced by my limited experience in my area, which wouldn't be considered tourist-y at all.

I don't begrudge the girls the opportunity to make whatever they can doing whatever they are comfortable doing. I just don't see how guys refuse to see the red flags inherent in spending way more for something than necessary (if its necessary at all).

yoda57us
10-30-2011, 07:03 AM
Actually, if you bothered reading the posts, you'd have seen my second post conceded that guys have the right to be as stupid as they want to be, but you prefer pontificating to that.


So if you wouldn't do it then it must be stupid behavior?

You don't spend money in strip clubs and you think guys that do need help?
Why are you here again?

LOL, you crack me up...

bem401
10-30-2011, 07:29 AM
Again, you cite things that were never said. Whether or not a certain behavior is stupid has nothing to do with whether I did it or not. In fact, I just gave you an example of exactly that where I saw the pointlessness of continuing to spend the way I was, and having the common sense to end it..

charlie61
10-30-2011, 07:40 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, but I wanted to chip in with my two cents...

1) Every regular has a shelf life. At some point his neediness might outweigh the benefits of sticking around to make money off of him, especially if he kills your mood.

2) Money is money. He's already spending good money on you. Sure, the house takes a cut of that...but it's still money. And post-recession, it seems risky to me to start asking for tips on top of $100-200/visit. Sure, we'd all love for our regulars to spend spend spend, but that's not really the point. You risk ruining the 'relationship' by asking for more money. That's just something you'll have to feel out as far as how he might react.

yoda57us
10-30-2011, 07:41 AM
Again, you cite things that were never said. Whether or not a certain behavior is stupid has nothing to do with whether I did it or not. In fact, I just gave you an example of exactly that where I saw the pointlessness of continuing to spend the way I was, and having the common sense to end it..

Never said? How can that be BEM. I highlighted the text from your post!

Again, if you consider it pointless that's your business. No one is saying that you should spend money on something that you either can't afford or think is foolish. That being said, the fact that you continue to spout off like a broken record about being non-customer and taking shots at people who are customers on a site that exists for dancers and customers is rather foolish.

As far as I'm concerned it's no different than your old game of sitting at the bar, "not looking at the stage" and waiting for your friends to be bored enough to come sit with you for a few minutes. In other words, it's a waste of everyone's time...

bem401
10-30-2011, 08:14 AM
Never said? How can that be BEM. I highlighted the text from your post!.

Where did I ever say i never behaved that way? I then discussed exactly what I did when I saw my activity for what it was worth (or not worth).

As far as me "wasting everyone's time" by sitting at the bar paying no attention to the stage, if that were the case, they'd never come over, let alone suggest I come in. I'd ceased to be a customer, they'd ceased to be strippers, and the place ceased to be a SC as far as our interactions were concerned. Its that simple and really has nothing to do with this thread so I don't understand the point of bringing it up. The fact is at one point I was every bit the customer anyone here (including you) is or was, so its not like I don't understand what's going on.

yoda57us
10-30-2011, 08:19 AM
As far as me "wasting everyone's time" by sitting at the bar paying no attention to the stage, if that were the case, they'd never come over, let alone suggest I come in. I'd ceased to be a customer, they'd ceased to be strippers, and the place ceased to be a SC as far as our interactions were concerned. Its that simple and really has nothing to do with this thread so I don't understand the point of bringing it up.

LOL, it has everything to do with your POV as expressed in your last several posts on this thread BEM. Besides, I get a kick out of the fact that I, along with several other members here, can get you to post almost that exact same paragraph just about anytime we want to. Like I said, broken record.

It's actually pretty funny!

KS_Stevia
10-30-2011, 11:29 AM
Dude, Bem, chillax. Personally, I agree with you. $1K an hour is crazy money to spend on that sort of entertainment...because I don't have that level of disposable income. And while I enjoy strip clubs and lapdances, I'm perfectly happy getting regular dances on the floor. So, you and I aren't ideal customers, so what.

Here's the thing. A pretty small percentage of clubs charge $1K an hour for champagne rooms and a pretty small percentage of custies spend that much anymore.

But back in the 90's when I started dancing, guys would pay that much, if not more, all the time...because they were expensing the entire thing to their business - be it a corporation or their own company.

So....if a businessman happens to be taking out some HIGH dollar clients in places like NYC, New Orleans, or Atlanta where the rooms cost that much...and that client is worth MILLIONS to them...then there is a certain value in "showing off" that they are important clients and have that level of value. Its not something particularly useful in the teaching industry, but used to be the thing in the oil business, high-value sales, financial industry, etc....

So, while you are thinking "he's crazy and pathetic"....in fact quite the opposite might be true. To recap:

1. Spending that much in an SC is the exception not the norm and most SC don't charge that much anyway

2. Often men who do spend that much are expensing it anyway

3. Its often a business "ego stroke" anyway in order to bring in more business from customers that are worth way more than $1K/hour

4. If the cust has the disposable income and they are in an area where thats the cost of the service..who are we to judge?

bem401
10-31-2011, 06:04 AM
No need for me to chillax. I didn't deviate from the discussion by going personal.

I am just of the opinion that any patron willing to regularly spend that amount of money for that level of entertainment needs a wake-up call. That's really all I ever said and I said it thinking of guys I've witnessed visiting the clubs I've patronized since 2002. I'm fairly certain close to none of the guys I'm recalling were entertaining clients. They were regulars visitors continually dropping serious personal money for their experiences and now we're discussing a situation where the price has tripled. Maybe my view is biased because I'm a fairly-heavy (~$2500 a month) spender turned non-spender turned non-visitor and I just shake my head when I read about these things.

Dirty Ernie
10-31-2011, 07:23 AM
The problem is your projecting your regrets regarding your overspending onto the entire rest of the SC customer population. Let those go and instead congratulate yourself for figuring out if you repeatedly offer to tutor their kids in math and golf for free, and play Mr. Fix-it around their house, eventually they'll cave in and you can add another stripper to your "friend" list, so you can sit at the bar staring at the wall and not feel like a time water. Lol

yoda57us
10-31-2011, 09:51 AM
Maybe my view is biased because I'm a fairly-heavy (~$2500 a month) spender turned non-spender turned non-visitor and I just shake my head when I read about these things.

Congratulations BEM, I've never spent more than about $10, 000 in a year for strip clubs and hookers combined. No wonder you felt foolish...

You never miss a chance to mention in your rants that all these girls want is our money. I have to ask, what makes you think we don't already know that? What makes you think we want anymore from these women than a few hours of entertainment in the club? This board is riddled with the "does she think I'm special" guys but that simply isn't the majority of SC customers in my estimation.

As far as spending $1000 on a sex worker well, I've made my point. I wouldn't do it anymore than you would but that's not really what this thread is about. Lots of clubs charge more for VIP than what you have experienced in your little world of RI strip clubs and lots of guys can easily afford to spend more in clubs than you or I might. It's your judgmental intolerance and dismissive stance that is annoying here, not the amount of money being discussed.

That being said, honestly, does a guy who spends tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars a on a private country club membership need help too? I mean, wouldn't a public course be just as good?

bem401
11-02-2011, 05:54 AM
Congratulations BEM, I've never spent more than about $10, 000 in a year for strip clubs and hookers combined. No wonder you felt foolish...

You never miss a chance to mention in your rants that all these girls want is our money. I have to ask, what makes you think we don't already know that? What makes you think we want anymore from these women than a few hours of entertainment in the club? This board is riddled with the "does she think I'm special" guys but that simply isn't the majority of SC customers in my estimation.

As far as spending $1000 on a sex worker well, I've made my point. I wouldn't do it anymore than you would but that's not really what this thread is about. Lots of clubs charge more for VIP than what you have experienced in your little world of RI strip clubs and lots of guys can easily afford to spend more in clubs than you or I might. It's your judgmental intolerance and dismissive stance that is annoying here, not the amount of money being discussed.

That being said, honestly, does a guy who spends tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars a on a private country club membership need help too? I mean, wouldn't a public course be just as good?

Never felt foolish, I just pulled the plug once I realized continuing to regularly pay someone who will only pay attention to me for money on an ongoing basis would make me a feel foolish. Coincidentally or not, this coincided with the mutual decision to take the business aspect out of the equation with a dancer or two. In retrospect, that was probably a big factor.

As far as your golf analogy is concerned, if a comparable public course was available and country clubs couldn't be used as a write-off, they'd not be able to charge what they do. Apparently, as I learned, to the girls' benefit and the guys' detriment, such rules don't apply in SC's.

yoda57us
11-02-2011, 04:49 PM
As far as your golf analogy is concerned, if a comparable public course was available and country clubs couldn't be used as a write-off, they'd not be able to charge what they do. Apparently, as I learned, to the girls' benefit and the guys' detriment, such rules don't apply in SC's.

"Rules"? So it's a rule BEM that it's OK to blow money on country club memberships but not on strippers? Whose rule? You're rule? Congratulations BEM. I didn't think it was possible for you to post something this myopically twisted but you did it!

So let's review. According to BEM's rules of logic it's OK for a guy to spend a couple of hundred thou for a country club membership rather than not play at a public course simply because he likes the CC course better. On the other hand, a guy who will pay $1000 for an hour in VIP rather than $300 simply because he likes the $1000 girl better than the $300 girl needs to have his head examined? Got it!

KS_Stevia
11-03-2011, 05:12 AM
Country club memberships as write offs? Don't think so. Its about status and exclusivity. Same thing with the $1K room. Remember, the OP was with a client, and in a city where that was the cost of the room.

Do you expect him to take his client to some shit hole dive because its cheaper when he obviously has a much more lucrative interest in their relationship? Bem, leave the business to business people. I can't remember how to do calculus, but all of this makes perfect sense to me.

bem401
11-03-2011, 05:33 AM
"Rules"? So it's a rule BEM that it's OK to blow money on country club memberships but not on strippers? Whose rule? You're rule? Congratulations BEM. I didn't think it was possible for you to post something this myopically twisted but you did it!

So let's review. According to BEM's rules of logic it's OK for a guy to spend a couple of hundred thou for a country club membership rather than not play at a public course simply because he likes the CC course better. On the other hand, a guy who will pay $1000 for an hour in VIP rather than $300 simply because he likes the $1000 girl better than the $300 girl needs to have his head examined? Got it!

Talk about myopically twisted! There are few to no country clubs where a membership costs a couple of hundred thousand unless you are talking about a couple decades of membership. A large infusion of cash might be required if you are invited to join, but anything in the range you mention represents equity in the club, not part of the dues and is refundable when you leave the club. And some people in these places do need their head examined for being depending on the particulars, no different than a SC.

So if you are asking me if I see a difference between a (partially) tax deductible family membership in a prestigious local country club (for about $15K a YEAR) and spending that much or more in local strip clubs behind the backs of any wife and kids, I'd have to say I do.

And we weren't talking about spending money on specific girls. We were discussing paying the price for activity in the club. I won't deny I'd have been willing to pay a premium to spend time with the girls of my choice rather than others when I was active, but that amount is just plain ridiculous. The only way it would make any sense at all (if it was an option) would be if it was a very special occasion or involved activities not generally on the menu. To me, being willing to drop this on a regular basis for a standard CR means the guy needs to step back and re-evaluate.

Raider
11-03-2011, 05:49 AM
We were discussing paying the price for activity in the club. I won't deny I'd have been willing to pay a premium to spend time with the girls of my choice rather than others when I was active, but that amount is just plain ridiculous. The only way it would make any sense at all (if it was an option) would be if it was a very special occasion or involved activities not generally on the menu. To me, being willing to drop this on a regular basis for a standard CR means the guy needs to step back and re-evaluate.


Funny...I thought the thread was about the lady wanting to get her regular to tip her on a more consistent basis.

But, as long as thread has moved to this.......If the guy regularly spending what Bem considers to be an absurd amount of money that he feels requires re-evaluation can afford it without having an effect on his standard of living or his future due to personal wealth or income...there is no need to 'step back'.

bem401
11-03-2011, 06:01 AM
Funny...I thought the thread was about the lady wanting to get her regular to tip her on a more consistent basis.

But, as long as thread has moved to this.......If the guy regularly spending what Bem considers to be an absurd amount of money that he feels requires re-evaluation can afford it without having an effect on his standard of living or his future due to personal wealth or income...there is no need to 'step back'.

Even if it has no real impact on his standard of living, I maintain he can do a lot better for that amount of money. That's all I was saying.

yoda57us
11-03-2011, 06:22 AM
So if you are asking me if I see a difference between a (partially) tax deductible family membership in a prestigious local country club (for about $15K a YEAR) and spending that much or more in local strip clubs behind the backs of any wife and kids, I'd have to say I do.

Now, once again, you are just being your usual judgmental self here Bem. It's not about the money-which is what you appear to be saying at first-it's about your idea of what people should and should not spend their money on with a little moral high-ground superiority complex thrown in...as usual.

By the way, do a little research. There are CC's all over the country with much higher annual memberships than 15k. You continue to expound your expertise on just about everything while looking through the tiny ass crack that is the state of RI. It never ceases to amaze me how much you just don't get about the world that exists outside of Providence...

bem401
11-03-2011, 06:38 AM
By the way, do a little research. There are CC's all over the country with much higher annual memberships than 15k. You continue to expound your expertise on just about everything while looking through the tiny ass crack that is the state of RI. It never ceases to amaze me how much you just don't get about the world that exists outside of Providence...

You're the one who mentioned " a couple of hundred thou", not me. There are some, not a lot, of clubs charging more than $15k a year, but if a comparable club is in the next town for significantly less, that's where the members will go. The price is what the market will bear and guys dropping big-time serious money at some golf clubs are fools depending on much they play, how well they play, and how nice the club is.

Its funny how you call RI an "ass-crack" (which I don't deny BTW) yet you've been waddling your 300 lb ass down here with a stack of twenties for more than a decade now with no end in sight. Like I told my college roommates "don't trash RI to me. I was born here. You decided to come here".

yoda57us
11-03-2011, 07:24 AM
The price is what the market will bear

Yes it is, just like strip club VIP rooms...


and guys dropping big-time serious money at some golf clubs are fools depending on much they play, how well they play, and how nice the club is.

All depends on how you look at it BEM. If they can afford it why do you care?


Its funny how you call RI an "ass-crack" (which I don't deny BTW) yet you've been waddling your 300 lb ass down here with a stack of twenties for more than a decade now with no end in sight.

Again, more judgmental crap. Why would I stop BEM? I like strip clubs. I've have fun in them, I don't spend above my means and I harbor no false impressions of what goes on in them or why the girls are there. I can't quite figure out where you or anyone else would get the impression that women work in strip clubs for any other reason than a paycheck but I guess that's just me...
I also seem to have no problem making friends, tipping them in the club and socializing with them outside of the club all at the same time. Sorry but I just don't seem to encounter the same moral dilemmas that you do when it comes to dancers...



Like I told my college roommates "don't trash RI to me. I was born here. You decided to come here".

What exactly does that mean BEM? It means nothing! I was born in a place even lower on the economic ladder than RI is but guess what, I don't live there anymore! Your "friends" weren't born where they live now either. They, or their parents, left a place that had no future for them and moved to a place that did. You don't need a passport or documentation of emancipation to cross the state line BEM. If you live in RI it's because you want to. I visit there, to go to clubs, eat on federal hill and to work because I want to...

rickdugan
11-03-2011, 08:13 AM
To me, being willing to drop this on a regular basis for a standard CR means the guy needs to step back and re-evaluate.

To you indeed. Perhaps to him it just doesn't matter and it is not worth the time and effort to hunt down a better deal. You know, some people do value their time and, as the saying goes, a bird in the hand can be worth more than two in the bush. If he has a hot, willing girl ready to go and the money doesn't matter to him, then why shouldn't he just go for it?

More globally speaking, why do you care about how other people spend their money? And if you answer that, don't start with the crap about "I just think they can do better" because it is clearly more than that when you are using terms like "fool" and "crazy" to describe it. Does Comrade Bem simply have other thoughts as to the best use of other people's money?

And while you are thinking about how other people should spend their money, perhaps you have other suggestions as to how they can use their time to find better deals? Should coupon clipping be mandated? How about those dastardly people who pay the userous rate to use those Coinstar machines instead of taking the time to roll their coins? ::)

IMHO you are simply too invested in how other people spend their $$$.

Naida
11-03-2011, 09:19 AM
FWIW, I think asking for a tip is crass. Customers don't know or care about your expenses as a dancer. All independent contractors have operating expenses. Any dancer who has ever asked me for a tip has only had the chance to do it once.

This slightly bothers me. Not because I disagree, but because HAVING TO ASK is just kind of crass. It's crude of the dancer to ask, but I think it's even ruder that a lot of customers just assume that gratuity is included in the price. A waiter doesn't ask for a tip when you go out to eat, but no gentlemen worth his weight in dirt is stupid enough to assume that it's appropriate to walk away without leaving a tip either.

I don't let customers assume they can get away without tipping me. The "why" is simply because lapdances are a service the club provides via dancers, just as service is provided via waiters in a restaraunt. What earns that tip is quality of service. If you want to pay the bare minimum from an aloof dancer who won't pay you a lick of personal attention, be my guest. I find a gentle way to remind customers at the beginning of or before the dance that they get what they give. If you want me to remember your name and provide adequate conversation, I want a tip.
If that means not selling a dance, then the customer is a PL that I don't want to dance for in the future and won't bother going out of my way to talk to in the future. If I still do the dance but don't get tipped, I might go back to him in the future if I need to earn his money, but there will be a noticable difference in my service. (Not saying that I'll give a shitty dance, because doing that hurts my reputation, but it will be a run-of-the-mill "get what you pay for" lapdance, no personality involved.) If I get tipped, and especially if it's a good tip, I will remember you as a gentleman rather than a customer and go out of my way to help you feel like your presence is valued in the club.

The only time I make an exception to this is when-
A) The customer spends a considerable amount of money on me, like blocks of time in the Champagne Room, or
B) He is expecting a lot more than just a dance. I never say anything that could be construed as consent to prostitution in these sort of situations but I'll still sell the dance. These guys will usually get VIP dances since they're more private and a lot of the time will end up walking out as soon as they realize I'm not going to do anything illegal. Made the money for half the work.

Raider
11-03-2011, 09:43 AM
There are customers that totally agree with your point of view and the comparison between your service and the service of the waiter in a restaurant. And...there are those that don't. I am the middle of the road; sometimes tipping and sometimes not. Yet, if you make an issue out of not tipping or I get a hint of an attitude, what do you think will happen when you approach me as a last resort because you need to earn my money and now all of a sudden the fact I don't tip is acceptable. It won't be my money you will be getting and I won't feel bad about it at all. You assume that paying only the price of the service without a tip will always result in the bare minimum from an aloof dancer who won't pay any personal attention. Not true. ...there are many dancers that are happy for the quick hundred bucks I provide for the four dances received.

A lawyer also provides services to you through the law firm he works for. Would you tip the lawyer based on the level of service provided? Would you want the lawyer to provide a level of service based on whether or not you tipped when paying the retainer fee? Using the same logic...he might take your case but maybe he should just go throught the motions at your next hearing.

Ladies usually associate dancing with waitressing or the beauty shop where tips are expected. Some customers agree....some customers associate them with lawyers or contractors who are already compensated for services provided. Personally, I am in the middle.....but don't ask me for one either.

Edit....not taking the time to search. Just realized you may be the lady with legal problems. This was not an attempt to turn this into anything personal or to be a smart ass by using the lawyer scenario as an example. If taken as such...my apologies.

All Good Things
11-03-2011, 01:03 PM
I wish I had something useful to add to this thread, but I'm distracted by this persistent movie scene playing out over and over in my head every time I read the posts between Yoda and Bem. Does this exchange between Robert De Niro and Charles Grodin in the film Midnight Run sound familiar to anybody else?

De Niro (Yoda): I was thinkin', after I turn your ass in and collect my money...I'm gonna open up a coffee shop.

Grodin (Bem): I have to tell you, a restaurant is a very tricky investment. More than half of them go under within the first six months. If I were your accountant, I'd strongly advise you against it.

De Niro: You would? You're not my accountant.

Grodin: No, if I were your accountant...

I'm just saying that it's a very tricky business...

and if I were your accountant, I would....

strongly advise you against it.

...as an accountant.

De Niro: You're not my accountant.

Grodin: I realize I'm not your accountant.

I'm saying,

If I were your accountant.

--------------------------

Naida
11-03-2011, 03:01 PM
Ladies usually associate dancing with waitressing or the beauty shop where tips are expected. Some customers agree....some customers associate them with lawyers or contractors who are already compensated for services provided. Personally, I am in the middle.....but don't ask me for one either.

Edit....not taking the time to search. Just realized you may be the lady with legal problems. This was not an attempt to turn this into anything personal or to be a smart ass by using the lawyer scenario as an example. If taken as such...my apologies.

No offense was taken, no worries.

And now that bumping into a very dear friend has lifted my mood, I'd also like to apologize if I came across a bit bitchy.

Perhaps waitressing isn't exactly right to use as an example, but beauticians are. Most beauticians work on the same kind of system as we dancers do. They rent a chair from the salon and are typically responsible for the quality of materials used in their work, yet they charge the salon price just like we charge club prices for dances. And just like dancers, they can up these charges based on their performance. A dancer whose quality of work is above the standard has a right to ask for more, just as beauticians can and will. In my opinion, and those of people I'd discussed the matter with, the effort I put forth in my work while dancing is above par. Unless you're paying an exorbatant amount already for my time, I expect extra compensation for that extra effort.

Like I said before though, I do ask for it in a polite, unpushy sort of way that implies my want for a tip and allows customers to know that I don't REQUIRE that tip. I never ask for an amount. Typically, it's something along the lines of "Quality is worth a little extra." If they balk and decide against a dance because of it, they're a cheap bastard who frankly is a waste of time to talk to long enough to sell even the first dance. If they choose not to tip after the first good dance, I will choose not to service them anymore unless I need the money or they "sell the dance for me" by asking me to do another, and those dances will be on par with the dances of other girls in the clubs I've worked in so far- Zero interest in the customer himself, no conversation that isn't necessary, just dance and get out. I'll be polite, but there's a big difference in polite and the kind of friendliness I manage to offer to good customers.

KS_Stevia
11-03-2011, 06:17 PM
In some clubs in some regions, tipping is common and accepted. In my main area of work, it wasn't so I seldomly asked. But if tipping extra on top of a dance was the norm and/or the club was making me tip out on top of the dance and extorting extra money from me on top of that (Vegas) you bet you're ass I'm going to maximize my profit.

yoda57us
11-03-2011, 07:35 PM
Perhaps waitressing isn't exactly right to use as an example, but beauticians are. Most beauticians work on the same kind of system as we dancers do. They rent a chair from the salon and are typically responsible for the quality of materials used in their work, yet they charge the salon price just like we charge club prices for dances.

Um, sorry but this is not accurate. If you rent a chair in a salon you are an independent contractor working out of that salon. You have your own customers, book your own appointments and set your own rates. You pay the salon owner a set fee for the chair rental. Sometimes this fee will include supplies but quite often it will not. Taking a job in a salon as an employee is not the same thing as renting a chair.

Naida
11-04-2011, 12:42 PM
Salons will vary just as much as clubs, yoda. Some salons will hire employees and provide necessary materials while paying a wage (think those cheap, poorly ventilated Vietnamese nail salons in the ghetto) and others will rent chairs/nail stations similar to the way dancers pay house fees.

Some salons will take only rent for the chair and let the beautician keep the rest. Some salons will also charge a percentage of each appointment, especially if the appointment was booked through them and/or was non-specific in terms of which beautician the customer wanted.

Please don't quote me in order to contradict if I've already said the same thing in an un-quoted portion of the quoted paragraph. I said that above par beauticians can raise their price if they want. And I think the comparison is accurate since dancers are independent contractors as well.

yoda57us
11-04-2011, 02:43 PM
Please don't quote me in order to contradict if I've already said the same thing in an un-quoted portion of the quoted paragraph. I said that above par beauticians can raise their price if they want. And I think the comparison is accurate since dancers are independent contractors as well.

We are talking about two different things here. I was in the business of supplying product to beauty salons and barber shops for almost twenty years and still have quite a few friends in that industry so I have a pretty good handle on things...

A beautician who rents a chair from a salon owner is ,as you say, an independent contractor. She can charge whatever she wants for her services. She is not bound by any price list that the salon owner charges for services provided either by her or her employees. The IC chair-renter is also not obligated to cut the hair of anyone other than her own customers. By the same token, the salon owner is under no obligation to give the IC a crack at any walk-in clients unless of course they walk in looking for the IC.

Of course you are free to tip the independent contractor who cuts your hair just as you can tip the employee who might be working right next to her. In each case however the circumstances of how the person cutting your hair is compensated is completely different. The IC is already charging you what she feels her work is worth. She will take your tip but she is not depending on it as a large part of her income. As you mentioned she can, as an IC, raise her price but she's not likely to do it after she cuts a client's hair since that sort of thing would scare-off future business...
The salaried employee is a different story. She is getting paid by the hour to work. Customer's tips are, more than likely, a significant part of her income. That being said, to be honest, I don't see a scenario where a hairdresser would be dong herself much good by asking for a tip.

I see the IC Chair-renter as more like a dancer and the salon employee as more like a barmaid or waitress. The latter works primarily for tips, the former does not.