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All Good Things
11-13-2011, 07:19 PM
Not intimidated. Not exactly sure what to be intimidated by. I don't go to clubs for validation. I go because the drinks are cheaper, the atmosphere is better than a bar and I'm bisexual. It was 100% cool to have a chick rub her tits on mine and want to see my boobs. Really, what would I be intimidated by? To be honest, most people think I have too much self confidence to the point that I intimidate some people. And I'm not concerned about my tits in any way what so ever. I was pretty excited about it, because men tell me my tits are hot all the time but i don't care about that. If a chick thinks my tits are hot, that's really cool. And maybe she didn't, but they sure aren't pancake tits with extra large nipples or anything with stretch marks. So if she didn't like them, that's ok too. Because I sure do like them and different strokes for different folks.


The drinks in an SC are cheaper?

Anyway, I think you got distracted by my mention of boobs (it's ok). :) My point was that you reported how hot the dancer thought you were four different times in five paragraphs. That's a LOT of "oh she thinks I'm so pretty."

No guy pretending to be a girl would be this authentic -- girls are forever comparing themselves to other girls and looking for their validation in ways guys never do with each other, so this is one point that suggests that you are in fact a woman.

The part about insecurity was that you felt it necessary to say it over and over and...over, and in essentially the same words. I won't read into it anymore than I already have.

tcqueen83
11-13-2011, 07:25 PM
The drinks in an SC are cheaper?

Anyway, I think you got distracted by my mention of boobs (it's ok). :) My point was that you reported how hot the dancer thought you were four different times in five paragraphs. That's a LOT of "oh she thinks I'm so pretty."

No guy pretending to be a girl would be this authentic -- girls are forever comparing themselves to other girls and looking for their validation in ways guys never do with each other, so this is one point that suggests that you are in fact a woman.

The part about insecurity was that you felt it necessary to say it over and over and...over, and in essentially the same words. I won't read into it anymore than I already have.
Yeah. You are wrong about the self esteem thing. I really don't have it. I was asking about why a stripper would give me her number. Was she trying to make me a reg or was she genuinely interested in being friends because in 8 years of visiting clubs with ex bf's and my husband never has a stripper offered her number. Never have I asked either. So I felt it wasn't customary for a stripper to just say "hey want to have my number so we can chat again?" She was really cute and smart so I thought it'd be cool to hang out. And she did call me back and was genuinely interested in being friends. And I'd totally play around with her because she was super cute. But I accentuated the fact that she was excited about my tits because I though it was need to know info in relation to the context of my question. So anyway. I've never looked for validation, ever. It is so cool if another girl finds me attractive whom I also find to be hot. It's something to get excited over. It's no different than a guy who thinks a girl is hot and then finding out later the girl is going "omg you have such a cute butt!". Wouldn't the guy get really excited about it and be like wow, that's so cool this chick really digs me. But since she was a stripper I was a little wary of if she was truthful or not.

RufusT
11-13-2011, 07:27 PM
Hey TC, .....Can you spell sanc.ti.mo.ni.ous??......I knew ya could....

Kellydancer
11-13-2011, 08:49 PM
I believe she's real -- her dialect and grammatical choices are distinctly different from those of the recently banned guys.

You can also tell a lot by what one writes. The fact that she reports that the dancer found her (or her breasts) "pretty," "beautiful," "pretty" and "very pretty" in just 5 paragraphs of her original thread post suggests that she's both female and a little intimidated by the dancers around her. (My point is that I know the dancer will say these things, but for her to post those comments over and over and over is revealing).

Ah, I didn't catch that but she was definitely annoying. I'm sure she's just a jealous woman then instead of a freaky man.

Kellydancer
11-13-2011, 08:51 PM
I find it interesting you have a master's degree and are a dancer. It seems a job with a masters degree would be much less drama filled than dancing and you would want to get a job in your degree field since you worked so hard for it. And not to be mean, but this is a societal standard, if I were reviewing a CV and someone had dancing on it as a career I'd have to pass it up. Just simply because it would not be looked greatly upon by the professional world outside of dancing. Not that it's right, I personally don't care, but there are standards professionals are judged by that I have no control over.

Apparently you don't know much about me but I am for the most part retired. I am a professional and dancing doesn't show up on my resume anywhere. Why would it unless I am applying for a sex industry job.

Kellydancer
11-13-2011, 09:00 PM
Ah, yes. Ladies and gentlemen, meet the 1%. :hat: Good to know that people whose mommies and daddies can pay their way through college are using grants meant for those who don't have that advantage. And doodness dwacious, they didn't EVEN buy her a car. Nice. You should be proud.


I really hated her condescending attitude towards the working poor, not realizing that not everyone has a chance at a better life. I know people like this along with her comments about people with degrees who can't find jobs. The economy is awful and there aren't jobs out there, let alone ones for unskilled.

yoda57us
11-13-2011, 09:32 PM
I fear that all of the work I've done to progress the positive attributes of female customers has just gone down the shitter in one fell swoop :-\.

You will just have to re-dedicate yourself to the cause! ;D}:D

Djoser
11-14-2011, 03:33 AM
It's interesting how some people do seem to insist on posting over and over and over again, until you want to fucking puke, how irresistible they supposedly are to any and all members of the opposite sex, while pretending to be secure and confident.

And getting back to the OP, there's not much doubt why those guys are here...

simple(headed?)guy
11-14-2011, 04:36 PM
Yoda you are an honorary dancer.


OMG - just had a vision of yoda in a g-string & 8 inch heels hanging upside down on a pole... not a vision to get me back into a SC. :D}:D

(hehe, sorry, but had to say it. sometimes I'm a real shit ;D)



The drinks in an SC are cheaper?



Sometimes yes. The nearest SC to me (about 2 miles) serves a Jack & Coke for $6, the nearest regular bar (yes, it is attached to a resturant) serves it for $7. Can't speak for the entire bar inventory, only that one example.

yoda57us
11-14-2011, 04:39 PM
Yoda you are an honorary dancer.

LOL, I've been accused of actually being a dancer a few times by some short-lived members here. It's nice to have it said in a good way. Thank you Kelly!

Does this mean I get to hang out in the dressing room?}:D

Hopper
11-14-2011, 05:44 PM
^ You don't already?

nicole84
11-14-2011, 06:38 PM
. Being beautiful, naked and open for friendly conversation isn't really enough because nobody is going to pay large sums of money for a conversation.

um, i beg to differ.

99.5% of the customers who ever bought a private room with me...wanted nothing but to sit and talk. I wasn't even naked while talking.

I won't even address half of your other comments, because it would take me hours to get it all out.

KS_Stevia
11-14-2011, 09:21 PM
LOL, I work for a Fortune 1..... company and we don't drug test, half of sales would get fired, damn stoners. How does drug testing make a job a "real job"?

This chick was really off the wall.

rickdugan
11-15-2011, 06:04 AM
As I said before, Mr. Dugan, my idea of 'reform' is not necessarily to change over to the employee format, but simply to go with one or the other - employee or contractor, rather than a hybrid that serves the club and not the dancer. If they're contractors, then let them operate as such instead of saddling them with 'employee' obligations. Other businesses are obliged to operate with respect for the rights of their workers; I doubt the sex industry is so crippled that it would be unable to make the adjustment.

I'm not sure I concur with your assessment of the numbers. When I first started in the business it was under a straight 'employee' format, and there were plenty of women who, like wait-staff, simply did not declare all their tips, paid taxes on some and maintained their eligibility for federal aid such as food stamps and ADC. The number of women with criminal records was modest, and I saw no 'liability issues' that interfered with their employability. I've worked outside the industry as well and have encountered plenty of people with criminal records who had also been hired. They work in hospitality, in the service industry, in retail and construction and medical care - and the adult biz. They've paid their debt to society and have returned to being productive members of it. I don't see why that would be different for dancers.


Fair enough on some of those points. I actually agree with you about the girls' ability to tuck away some of their tip income.

But I would also suggest that dancers used to make more in stage and other tips back "in the day" than they do today. Nowadays, most girls are largely dependent upon LD/CR/VIP money and I'm just not sure that I see how clubs would get away with not tracking, and reporting, that income. Heck, during the days of shift pay there were still plenty of clubs that were not even offering LDs, or at least not the type that is common now.

Other differences between then and now include liability exposure as well as how worker protection laws are currently enforced. People are far more litigious today than they were back then and, as it is, customers and dancers are already suing clubs over a variety of things. I'm just not sure that many club owners are going to take the chances that they might have back then, either in terms of hiring dancers with sketchy backgrounds or in how the clubs are operated.

One more point about the golden days vs. today is how much money is flowing into the clubs. One of the reasons that I believe that the increased tax liabilities for dancers would not trade off with the reduction of house fees and the addition of shift pay is that I do not believe that club owners are going to be willing to eat the additional expenses by themselves. There are many clubs that are already struggling, or at least making far less than they used to back in the day. Indeed, there are probably a fair number that simply could not afford to. One of the clubs that Yoda raised as an example has come up with a locker fee to help bridge the gap, and I have no doubt that other clubs will find ways to do so as well, whether it involves imposing other silly fees, taking bigger cuts of LDs or VIP/CR trips, or something else altogether.

But, lastly, fair enough on the point of employee vs. contractor. I agree that some clubs maintain poor practices in scheduling dancers and imposing stupid fines. I was simply questioning whether the first fix that you proposed might create more problems for the existing crop of dancers than it solves.

Kellydancer
11-15-2011, 12:10 PM
Regarding stage money, back when I started I knew everytime I went on stage I could make something. I've probably made around $10 at the better clubs each time, though many times I made more and other times less. I've even made a few hundred just from going on stage and this is no lie. However, at later clubs I started seeing the problems with the cheapos who refuse to tip even on stage and it opened my eyes to a lot.

FeministStripper
11-15-2011, 12:13 PM
But I would also suggest that dancers used to make more in stage and other tips back "in the day" than they do today. ...

Other differences between then and now include liability exposure as well as how worker protection laws are currently enforced. People are far more litigious today than they were back then.

I see what you're saying. I started 'back in the day', and you're right - pre-9/11 was a whole different ball game. The Clinton era was very, very prosperous. However, I left the business fairly recently, saw the move from shift pay to the employee/subcontractor mishmash, watched the nature of the business change in countless ways. It, like the culture around it, is in a state of flux, adjusting to the huge changes on the world stage and in the global economy. The business I entered as a young thing is as different from the thing it is today as it was then to, say, 60's go-go. The world moves on. Hard to believe sometimes.