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Kellydancer
11-24-2011, 12:06 PM
Lol, so we've gone from dozens and dozens of times to it not being a common occurrence? LOL, no problem jimboe. I think we both agree that it happens. It's happened to me and I'm no Mr. America so I guess we can agree to disagree on frequency and circumstances.

By the way, those one-night-stand guys looking for a good may very well be paying for it. I've been around the clubs since way before private dances and VIP rooms existed. There was a time when the big money was always OTC if a lady was interested in working that way.

I later found out after I quit a club that many of the dancers were "dating" customers and by dating I mean meeting them OTC for p4p. I believe that the majority of the non paying customers managed to find one of these girls. But like you I find it very hard to believe that a dancer would date a non paying customer as a potential boyfriend in most cases. Yes it does happen but there are other things that could technically happen. I mean could I marry a prince? sure but likely? nope. Same thing with customers. I suppose it could happen if he was exceptionally hot and she was insecure. Reminds me of online dating where the most repulsive men are the pickiest. Sure an obese man could find a shapely woman but not likely.

lopaw
11-24-2011, 12:07 PM
Not really sure why there seems to be animosity on this, my only point is that it does happen, however infrequent. For the record, I'm not talking about standard customers who lack good looks and sufficient game, I'm talking about guys the girls find attractive. If you look through the threads on this very site I'm pretty sure you'll find more than a few examples of girls hooking up or wanting to hook up with attractive guys that come into the club without any financial gain involved.

In reference to your lottery example- There are thousands of lottery winners every week, just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. While most people are "Yeah right" peope there are others are "Hey, I won the lottery!!! people"


There's no animosity on my part. I know the reality of the situation, and the reality is that though it is theoretically possible, the odds are greatly against it. I see that you have back-peddled and admit that it isn't a common occurrence. Good. That's all the rest of us are saying. You initially stated that it "occurred alot", which is what we took issue with. Plain and simple.

Let_It_Fly
11-24-2011, 12:39 PM
On that note...


MYTH: "Most" dancers think black guys are not good customers?

Kellydancer
11-24-2011, 12:46 PM
I don't think that but I defintely think as dancers we all have somewhat racist views on certain customers. I am no different, because for the most part I avoided Indian men and non English speaking Mexicans because I had problems with both groups. As for black men I didn't do too well with young black guys but older black men loved me.

Coit
11-24-2011, 01:36 PM
Here is a fact (almost) and certainly not a myth. Most dancers hindquarters smell bad and the reason they smell bad is because they usually take a dump before they go on stage or before they leave home for work. What is it girls? Nervousness? Just trying to be mean? Whatever it is it's disgusting and really when you think about it unacceptable. Your average girl shows up at a club with a suitcase full of outfits probably costing a thousand at least and they can't bring baby wipes? That probably speaks to drug use, ie: sometimes girls have money for tattoos and outfits but after buying drugs little money for convenience items like baby wipes and cigarettes. Is their anything that can be done about this? Mandatory bathing rules? Perhaps it's a women's rights issue: If women were less afraid of being attacked then maybe they wouldn't have to poop before they take their clothes off? On a personal note it appears I have solved my stripper problems, hopefully permanently. I know where to go now to get reasonably priced sex with good looking girls who are both willing and compliant. I also know where to go to get good regular lapdances at a reasonable price. Now again, while these girls are great they all suffer from poop smell. I am thinking of bringing baby wipes, and wiping some of these girls myself, like I did my daughter so many years ago. Some I know well enough that they might actually let me do this. I hope this site can do something to perhaps make poop smell a social stigma and make it as unpopular as a girl with no piercings or tattoos. I am glad though that I no longer have to overpay for girls who don't put out. There are plenty of suckers out there but I am no longer one of them. I now feast with a sexual vengeance, but THE SMELL! THE SMELLL! EWWW!! GROSSS!!! OMG NASTY!!! Please do something I don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling karmal satisfaction every time I hear of some bad smelling stripper, get what she has coming, or look at all the pretty avatars on this page and think there is nothing but raw sewage behind them.

Kellydancer
11-24-2011, 01:55 PM
WTF? I've never worked at a club where the dancers smell like poop. I am very strict on hygiene and bath daily and wash my outfits after one day's use. If any guy touched me with a baby wipe I would stop the dance or hit him because that is abuse.

Coit
11-24-2011, 01:55 PM
I don't think that but I defintely think as dancers we all have somewhat racist views on certain customers. I am no different, because for the most part I avoided Indian men and non English speaking Mexicans because I had problems with both groups. As for black men I didn't do too well with young black guys but older black men loved me.

Most strippers would rather sleep with date or have a baby with a minority but they want good paying white customers at work. Being white I hate being viewed as sexually inferior to minority men but that is where our culture is at. The important thing to know is that it is bs and you know it by having as much sex as you can. It is really about money to strippers, but the money is used to buy drugs usually from minorities who then can usually get a real good discount at the end of the binge. It all starts with perception, strippers perceive white men are better for money ie: suckers and minorities are better for drugs, sex and role models, generally. There are however, black guys who are suckers and white guys who deal drugs, to be politically correct about the whole thing.

FeministStripper
11-24-2011, 01:55 PM
On a personal note it appears I have solved my stripper problems, hopefully permanently.

Unfortunately that seems to be the tip of the iceberg for you. Good luck working through the rest of it.

All Good Things
11-24-2011, 01:55 PM
^ Why does it not surprise me that with a post like this, your sexual experiences are recounted in terms of "reasonably priced?" (Not that there's anything wrong with personal choices like this -- my sense, though, is that choice is not involved in this particular case.)

And when are trolls going to stop using obvious and specialized screennames that make it possible to identify their real-life names in about 10 minutes? I recognize that they lack imagination (and in this case, basic decency and class) but you'd think some sliver of self-preservation would trigger their reptilian brain.

Kellydancer
11-24-2011, 01:58 PM
Most strippers would rather sleep with date or have a baby with a minority but they want good paying white customers at work. Being white I hate being viewed as sexually inferior to minority men but that is where our culture is at. The important thing to know is that it is bs and you know it by having as much sex as you can. It is really about money to strippers, but the money is used to buy drugs usually from minorities who then can usually get a real good discount at the end of the binge. It all starts with perception, strippers perceive white men are better for money ie: suckers and minorities are better for drugs, sex and role models, generally, there black guys who are suckers and white guys who deal drugs, to be politically correct about the whole thing.

You seem to have a lot of personal issues. I happen to know a lot of classy black men and scummy white guys just as I do in the reverse. I am white and generally date white but would date high class men of any race and I avoid low class men always. Oh and I don't do drugs either, except for the occasional alcoholic drink. I also don't sleep around.

FeministStripper
11-24-2011, 02:02 PM
There's no point in treating people like Coit as if they're real human beings who can process information from others; he just wants to unload some rage and self-loathing, poor thing. Probably sobs things like "I hate you Mommy! Why, why??" when he jerks off.

yoda57us
11-24-2011, 02:13 PM
Wait a minute...I thought Sunday was troll day! Oh, it must be the holiday...::)

jimboe7373
11-24-2011, 03:01 PM
There's no animosity on my part. I know the reality of the situation, and the reality is that though it is theoretically possible, the odds are greatly against it. I see that you have back-peddled and admit that it isn't a common occurrence. Good. That's all the rest of us are saying. You initially stated that it "occurred alot", which is what we took issue with. Plain and simple.I haven't back-peddled one bit. I posted to argue the ridiculous point that it never happened. I never said it was in anyway common or that it "occured alot" and I specifically laid out the ways that it's most likely to occur. I've seen it happen dozens and dozens of times with my own eyes.

I'm not sure why this is even an issue, in every work environment that exists some people are going to hook up with people that they encounter there purely for pleasure, it's not a stripper-client thing, it's an opposite sex's attraction thing. Yes the odds are theoretically against it and only a very tiny portion of clients will experience it, but they will experience and it does occur- saying it never happens is incorrect.

lopaw
11-24-2011, 03:09 PM
I haven't back-peddled one bit. I posted to argue the ridiculous point that it never happened. I never said it was in anyway common or that it "occured alot" and I specifically laid out the ways that it's most likely to occur. I've seen it happen dozens and dozens of times with my own eyes.

I'm not sure why this is even an issue, in every work environment that exists some people are going to hook up with people that they encounter there purely for pleasure, it's not a stripper-client thing, it's an opposite sex's attraction thing. Yes the odds are theoretically against it and only a very tiny portion of clients will experience it, but they will experience and it does occur- saying it never happens is incorrect.

lol yeah you did post that it happened "alot". But you apparently are desperate to get the last word here....so knock yourself out ;D.

jimboe7373
11-24-2011, 04:20 PM
lol yeah you did post that it happened "alot". But you apparently are desperate to get the last word here....so knock yourself out ;D. Not desperate at all, here is what I posted mentioning how uncommon it is:

1. "I never said it was in anyway common"
2. "...only a very tiny portion of clients will experience it"
3. "...thousands and thousands of nights in SC's and have seen this occur a few dozen times, that is occasional."
4. "...my only point is that it does happen, however infrequent"
5. "Definitely takes a special guy and definitely not a common occurrence"
6. "...the "odds" are VERY firmly against it, but it does happen to a few"
7. "...in the SC atmosphere it won't happen often, but it does sometimes."

What may have caused confustion was when I said not spending may work a lot "depending on the guy and/or the girl". This does not mean that it happens a lot overall but may happen a lot with certain people. I used to work with several girls that were extremely promiscous and would sleep regularly with customers for no money and with nothing spent on dances or drinks. I also had guys that would come into the club regularly that had the looks or the vibe that would allow them to pick up girls on a regular basis.

I think that you and maybe some other people here are looking at this as totally black and white with all the girls being committed full-time hustlers who are only about banking and the customers as all PL's who are primarily only usefull to said strippers as a source of income. There are however in reality many shades of grey, there are girls who like to socialize at work and who find themselves attracted to someone they meet there and there are guys that come in that are very cool, good-looking and have a decent enough rap and presence to meet up with the girl OTC for nothing other than mutual enjoyment.

smeca
11-24-2011, 04:33 PM
Coit, you mad, bro?

Aurora_Sunset
11-24-2011, 04:33 PM
Why is this an ongoing debate? The entire subject was brought up to make fun of the fact that certain guys think that by not giving a dancer money, they are making themselves more attractive as dating options - which is laughable to most strippers. Will some strippers still date customers like that? Sure, every once in awhile. Just like some dancers really are addicted to drugs, some dancers really are exhibitionists, some dancers have been abused as children... and so on... there are exceptions to every rule, but I don't see you or anyone else debating any other myth that was posted and refuted, even though there are probably dancers that the "myth" applies to. Why the particular interest in this one? I simply took lopaw's comment to mean that it's silly to think that any guy can walk into any SC and pick up a stripper by acting like a non-buying, PL douche. Would it happen every once in awhile with certain strippers? Sure. But it's unlikely and a bad PUA technique. If it happens, I doubt it's because that technique actually worked - it's because there was something else going on. People were making fun of the notion of this pathetic PUA technique, where guys think that that's what actually got them anywhere with some sort of psychological mind trick - not the idea that strippers occasionally date customers, because obviously, we know they do. That's all anyone was saying. Or at least, I feel like that was yoda's original statement, and lopaw was simply agreeing. Can we drop it now?

jimboe7373
11-24-2011, 07:19 PM
Why is this an ongoing debate? The entire subject was brought up to make fun of the fact that certain guys think that by not giving a dancer money, they are making themselves more attractive as dating options - which is laughable to most strippers. It was brought up because the statement that guys that do this Will some strippers still date customers like that? Sure, every once in awhile. Just like some dancers really are addicted to drugs, some dancers really are exhibitionists, some dancers have been abused as children... and so on... there are exceptions to every rule, but I don't see you or anyone else debating any other myth that was posted and refuted, even though there are probably dancers that the "myth" applies to. Why the particular interest in this one? I simply took lopaw's comment to mean that it's silly to think that any guy can walk into any SC and pick up a stripper by acting like a non-buying, PL douche. Would it happen every once in awhile with certain strippers? Sure. But it's unlikely and a bad PUA technique. If it happens, I doubt it's because that technique actually worked - it's because there was something else going on. People were making fun of the notion of this pathetic PUA technique, where guys think that that's what actually got them anywhere with some sort of psychological mind trick - not the idea that strippers occasionally date customers, because obviously, we know they do. That's all anyone was saying. Or at least, I feel like that was yoda's original statement, and lopaw was simply agreeing. Can we drop it now? The particular interest in this one is because I know from firsthand experience that some of the initial comments were incorrect, that's all. I made a simple effort to point out exemptions to this myth that should seem pretty obvious to all. It could have and should have ended there, but people seemed intent to argue about it as most people on this board seem to have an ingrained mindset that all customers are PL's and that all girls are full-time, money hungry hustlers that will only interact with a guy in the club if it's for cash. That is simply incorrect. In contrast to your post they WERE actually also implying that strippers don't date customers which we all know is absurd. For the guys who not paying or not tipping works for, it is not about some kind of "psychological mind trick", it's a status thing and about keeping yourself on equal par of the stripper. Almost every dancer does not want to date or hook up with a customer, if you are a cool, good-looking guy and you tip and buy dances, you then become a customer in her eyes and many times your status goes down. If you don't do those things and she is attracted to you, then you have a better chance in some cases of her seeing you as an OTC romantic possibility. In the case I'm describing it has nothing to do with being cheap, it's about doing what is most effective. We could have dropped this several threads ago but there seems to be denial or hostility to the fact that this dynamic exists.

yoda57us
11-24-2011, 08:05 PM
I haven't back-peddled one bit. I posted to argue the ridiculous point that it never happened.

Whoa back the truck up there jimboe! Your first response to this thread was to my post and I didn't say anywhere in that post that it never happens. Maybe you should go back and read what I actually wrote instead of what you think you saw...

jimboe7373
11-24-2011, 08:39 PM
Whoa back the truck up there jimboe! Your first response to this thread was to my post and I didn't say anywhere in that post that it never happens. Maybe you should go back and read what I actually wrote instead of what you think you saw... Ok, fair enough- here is what I think I saw you post:

"I don't know a dancer who will give you the time of day if you aren't spending money on her."

"Honestly, has this ever worked for anyone?"

"Dancers don't even pay attention to those guys."

In light of the reality that there are normal, well-adjusted dancers who may just like a guy that comes in and decide to go out on a date with him simply because she likes him and doesn't think of him as a customer because he didn't get dances or buy drinks, don't you find the below comment a little condescending and inaccurate?

"So yeah, it works for druggies and alcoholics!"

yoda57us
11-24-2011, 08:51 PM
In light of the reality that there are normal, well-adjusted dancers who may just like a guy that comes in and decide to go out on a date with him simply because she likes him and doesn't think of him as a customer because he didn't get dances or buy drinks, don't you find the below comment a little condescending and inaccurate?

You obviously have an agenda jimboe and it's based on your experiences. That's fine but I never said never, you said I said never. It's all there in black and white. You can keep re-posting my words but they don't change and neither does the meaning. You are accusing me of using absolutes because it supports your argument. I used no absolutes.

As far as anything I say being condescending or inaccurate well, you are entitled to your opinion but I don't agree on either front. What you may have observed as an employee in a strip club does not make my opinions as a long time customer and acquaintance of quite a few dancers any less valid of an opinion. How long did you work in the club jimboe? I've been going to clubs and hanging with dancers since the mid 80's. I didn't pull my opinions out of my ass last night. I've been having these conversations with dancers since the Reagan administration.

By the way, I don't usually bring this sort of thing up but six dancers thanked me for my initial post on this topic. That means they agree with me...just sayin...

lopaw
11-24-2011, 09:20 PM
lol it's pretty obvious that someone indeed has an agenda, and a pretty selective memory to boot.

Kellydancer
11-24-2011, 09:34 PM
Yeah definitely an agenda.


The particular interest in this one is because I know from firsthand experience that some of the initial comments were incorrect, that's all. I made a simple effort to point out exemptions to this myth that should seem pretty obvious to all. It could have and should have ended there, but people seemed intent to argue about it as most people on this board seem to have an ingrained mindset that all customers are PL's and that all girls are full-time, money hungry hustlers that will only interact with a guy in the club if it's for cash. That is simply incorrect. In contrast to your post they WERE actually also implying that strippers don't date customers which we all know is absurd. For the guys who not paying or not tipping works for, it is not about some kind of "psychological mind trick", it's a status thing and about keeping yourself on equal par of the stripper. Almost every dancer does not want to date or hook up with a customer, if you are a cool, good-looking guy and you tip and buy dances, you then become a customer in her eyes and many times your status goes down. If you don't do those things and she is attracted to you, then you have a better chance in some cases of her seeing you as an OTC romantic possibility. In the case I'm describing it has nothing to do with being cheap, it's about doing what is most effective. We could have dropped this several threads ago but there seems to be denial or hostility to the fact that this dynamic exists.

WTF? If a guy comes into a club he's customer and he's either a cheapass or a paying customer. I've never even remotely considered dating a customer if he wasn't spending, hell I didn't even talk to him if he didn't spend money. Why would I? This is like saying go to a doctor's office, not pay for a visit because the doctor is more likely to date the patient. Doesn't this sound absurd? of course and what would happen if you didn't pay? the doctor would kick you out and possibly have you arrested.

jimboe7373
11-24-2011, 10:11 PM
You obviously have an agenda jimboe and it's based on your experiences. That's fine but I never said never, you said I said never. It's all there in black and white. You can keep re-posting my words but they don't change and neither does the meaning. You are accusing me of using absolutes because it supports your argument. I used no absolutes.

As far as anything I say being condescending or inaccurate well, you are entitled to your opinion but I don't agree on either front. What you may have observed as an employee in a strip club does not make my opinions as a long time customer and acquaintance of quite a few dancers any less valid of an opinion. How long did you work in the club jimboe? I've been going to clubs and hanging with dancers since the mid 80's. I didn't pull my opinions out of my ass last night. I've been having these conversations with dancers since the Reagan administration.

By the way, I don't usually bring this sort of thing up but six dancers thanked me for my initial post on this topic. That means they agree with me...just sayin... My only agenda in this case is a desire to keep things accurate. All 3 of your statements that I posted imply pretty directly that you don't think it has ever worked, your statement in the following post pretty clearly states that you think it will work only on alchololics and druggies.

You may have 30 years of experience with dancers, but you have that experience as a customer. That is a big part of my premise which started me on this post in the first place. Many times girls will act and say different things to a customer than they will to a manager, bouncer, owner and someone who they don't think of a customer. For better or worse, when you become a customer you are put into a certain box in many of the dancers eyes and their behavior towards you will be radically altered.

To answer your question, I had been full-time in the business for 12 years as a bouncer, manager and then owner. After that I operated an adult-nightclub consulting company for 2 additional years. I have dated dozens of dancers and had casual flings with many times that. While I was never a push-over I was never a prick and had the respect of almost ever girl that ever worked with or for me. As a student of human nature I engaged them fully out of curiousity and never judged them. I've spent hundreds of hours in the dressing room and with them at after hours clubs, at weddings, funerals, house parties and many other events. I've helped set the focused determined ones in their own business and have shown many others how to buy real-estate and invest, I've been the one to bail them out when they got busted, the one they come to cry when their boyfriend hit them. I've taken them to ER when they've overdosed, I've gotten in front and stopped armed bf's on two occasions who have tried to come into the club distraught and drunk looking to shoot them because he found they had cheated on them. I've had more than a few of them fall in love with me and I've fallen in love with more than a few of them, I know all the scams, the hustles and the head-games they are capable of playing, I know all the moves the customers who succeed in playing them use to get sex and money from them. I've heard and seen the truth up close and personal from the front row and behind the scenes. I see who's car they get into after closing when everyone else has left, I answer the door at 4:30am when the PL who bought dances, drinks and spent $800 on her wants to know if she's ready to leave yet, as she's told him she'd go home with him- only she's already left out the back door with the guy with the tattoos who came in for a half hour at 10pm, didn't but a dance or a drink but made plans to take her to breakfast after work.

Not looking to continue the argument and I'm fully willing to admit and have said all along that it happens infrequently, but I've seen lots of guys pull it off and have done it lots of time myself so it's difficult for me to say nothing when people imply it never happens, that it never works or it only works on alcoholics or druggies.

jimboe7373
11-24-2011, 10:29 PM
Yeah definitely an agenda.



WTF? If a guy comes into a club he's customer and he's either a cheapass or a paying customer. I've never even remotely considered dating a customer if he wasn't spending, hell I didn't even talk to him if he didn't spend money. Why would I? This is like saying go to a doctor's office, not pay for a visit because the doctor is more likely to date the patient. Doesn't this sound absurd? of course and what would happen if you didn't pay? the doctor would kick you out and possibly have you arrested.That's great for you, but you are not every stripper. You can find quite a few posts right on this site where girls get attracted to a guy who comes into the club and doesn't see him as a customer or a cheap-ass. I don't think you could walk into a strip club in the world where this hasn't happened. You are talking way to absolute and if that is really your mentality I feel sorry for you. Seeking to hustle and get money from EVERY SINGLE guy that comes in seems a little stressful and not too fun. There are more than enough PL's and regular customers to make money off of- a little 10 minute interlude with someone you find attractive and may want to hook up with (if your status and conditions permit) doesn't seem like too big of a deal to me. I've seen girls pursue guys they were hot for in the club and give them free dances and even pay the house dance fee out of their own pockets. I don't have an agenda other then REALITY- it happens, not often and not with many guys but it absolutely, uniquivically HAPPENS, that is ALL I am saying.

Aurora_Sunset
11-24-2011, 10:30 PM
For the guys who not paying or not tipping works for, it is not about some kind of "psychological mind trick", it's a status thing and about keeping yourself on equal par of the stripper. Almost every dancer does not want to date or hook up with a customer, if you are a cool, good-looking guy and you tip and buy dances, you then become a customer in her eyes and many times your status goes down. If you don't do those things and she is attracted to you, then you have a better chance in some cases of her seeing you as an OTC romantic possibility. In the case I'm describing it has nothing to do with being cheap, it's about doing what is most effective.

Yes, exactly... some sort of psychological mind trick... you purposely don't buy so that you come across to the stripper as "just another dude that could be a potential dating option" instead of a customer. Idk, I guess my definition of "trick" is different from yours. Personally, I don't need someone wasting my time trying to present himself as a "cool guy on equal status with me" while I'm at work. I'm much more likely to date a customer than "equal status dude who doesn't spend." But whatever, I believe you that it happens. We all believe that it happens. It's just a silly PUA technique that's ridiculous to try to pull on most dancers. People were simply making fun of the fact that this is a widespread idea that strippers will like guys who don't spend.

You'd think if anyone would be offended by this inaccurate statement, it would be a stripper herself who has dated a guy who's spent absolutely nothing on her. I get that you've been in the business and you've seen it happen, but you seem to be taking this really personally. You seem obsessed with this notion that people think it never ever ever happens, and a flaming desire to prove them wrong... why does it bother you so much? /:O Stop getting so worked up over this idea that people here speak for all strippers everywhere - we know we don't. But there is a general consensus among the kinds of girls who frequent SW and we tend to talk in that manner... No one's truly saying "this is how it is ALWAYS" but you keep getting all riled up like that's what's going on... it's not... You've said your piece... multiple times... we believe you... at this point it's just bickering back and forth over exact wordage used and it's really getting rather childish on everyone's part. Can we all just agree that stupid PUA techniques are, in fact, stupid; and it is not outside the realm of possibility for a stripper to end up dating someone from the club, it's just unlikely (especially if you use stupid PUA techniques)?

lopaw
11-24-2011, 10:36 PM
My only agenda in this case is a desire to keep things accurate. All 3 of your statements that I posted imply pretty directly that you don't think it has ever worked, your statement in the following post pretty clearly states that you think it will work only on alchololics and druggies.

You may have 30 years of experience with dancers, but you have that experience as a customer. That is a big part of my premise which started me on this post in the first place. Many times girls will act and say different things to a customer than they will to a manager, bouncer, owner and someone who they don't think of a customer. For better or worse, when you become a customer you are put into a certain box in many of the dancers eyes and their behavior towards you will be radically altered.

To answer your question, I had been full-time in the business for 12 years as a bouncer, manager and then owner. After that I operated an adult-nightclub consulting company for 2 additional years. I have dated dozens of dancers and had casual flings with many times that. While I was never a push-over I was never a prick and had the respect of almost ever girl that ever worked with or for me. As a student of human nature I engaged them fully out of curiousity and never judged them. I've spent hundreds of hours in the dressing room and with them at after hours clubs, at weddings, funerals, house parties and many other events. I've helped set the focused determined ones in their own business and have shown many others how to buy real-estate and invest, I've been the one to bail them out when they got busted, the one they come to cry when their boyfriend hit them. I've taken them to ER when they've overdosed, I've gotten in front and stopped armed bf's on two occasions who have tried to come into the club distraught and drunk looking to shoot them because he found they had cheated on them. I've had more than a few of them fall in love with me and I've fallen in love with more than a few of them, I know all the scams, the hustles and the head-games they are capable of playing, I know all the moves the customers who succeed in playing them use to get sex and money from them. I've heard and seen the truth up close and personal from the front row and behind the scenes. I see who's car they get into after closing when everyone else has left, I answer the door at 4:30am when the PL who bought dances, drinks and spent $800 on her wants to know if she's ready to leave yet, as she's told him she'd go home with him- only she's already left out the back door with the guy with the tattoos who came in for a half hour at 10pm, didn't but a dance or a drink but made plans to take her to breakfast after work.

Not looking to continue the argument and I'm fully willing to admit and have said all along that it happens infrequently, but I've seen lots of guys pull it off and have done it lots of time myself so it's difficult for me to say nothing when people imply it never happens, that it never works or it only works on alcoholics or druggies.


People here feel one way and you feel another. Despite all of your mind-boggling "evidence", you're not gonna change anyone's mind.

Best to just leave it alone and agree to disagree.

Kellydancer
11-24-2011, 10:37 PM
That's great for you, but you are not every stripper. You can find quite a few posts right on this site where girls get attracted to a guy who comes into the club and doesn't see him as a customer or a cheap-ass. I don't think you could walk into a strip club in the world where this hasn't happened. You are talking way to absolute and if that is really your mentality I feel sorry for you. Seeking to hustle and get money from EVERY SINGLE guy that comes in seems a little stressful and not too fun. There are more than enough PL's and regular customers to make money off of- a little 10 minute interlude with someone you find attractive and may want to hook up with (if your status and conditions permit) doesn't seem like too big of a deal to me. I've seen girls pursue guys they were hot for in the club and give them free dances and even pay the house dance fee out of their own pockets. I don't have an agenda other then REALITY- it happens, not often and not with many guys but it absolutely, uniquivically HAPPENS, that is ALL I am saying.

Well, women who are giving free dances and paying house for these are stupid dancers who probably shouldn't be dancing. I can't think of any instances where a dancer was paying to dance for a customer. Of course I was going to hustle every guy who came in, why wouldn't I? I wasn't at a club to socialize and if you think most dancers are you are very delusional. I never even said dancers are never attracted to customers or never date them, but MOST dancers who I have seen date customers date guys who spend money on them.

Oh and if you were a manager why do you think this is perfectly fine for dancers to date customers? I've never worked a club where a manager encouraged this. Oh sure it's happened, but most would have fired me if I was dating customers.

yoda57us
11-24-2011, 10:45 PM
All 3 of your statements that I posted imply pretty directly that you don't think it has ever worked

They imply nothing of the sort. You applied a meaning to my post in order to put forward your POV which, as others have said, actually has nothing to do with what my original post was about


You may have 30 years of experience with dancers, but you have that experience as a customer.


Well, It's been years since I was just a customer. I have several close personal friends who are dancers or retired dancers. I've had these conversations with them and their friends, outside of the club environment, over and over and over for years. I will also reiterate again that you are the only one using absolutes here, or rather, accusing me of using them. If you want to float some sort of theory about why dancers might go out with a parasite sitting at the bar and spending no money that's your business but don't put words in my mouth to try and prove your point.

I can't help but notice as I read here that your argument doesn't seem to have much support from the real, live dancers on this site...

Aurora_Sunset
11-24-2011, 10:46 PM
You are talking way to absolute and if that is really your mentality I feel sorry for you. Seeking to hustle and get money from EVERY SINGLE guy that comes in seems a little stressful and not too fun.

Sooo... what's really going on here is that you feel sorry for anyone who goes into work solely to work and never entertains ideas of dating customers because they choose not to mix work and pleasure? For someone who's been around strippers for 12 years and apparently knows them so well, that's a very condescending "poor little messed-up you" thing to say to someone who just wants work to be work...

If there are girls here who have dated customers without money being spent (and I know there are, I've read the threads too), and they somehow feel offended that anyone thinks they don't exist or something (even though no one ever said that), let them defend themselves.

Kellydancer
11-24-2011, 10:50 PM
Has anyone else seen some guy not spending but getting free dances or a dancer paying for a guy to get a free one? Outside of dancers paying for her personal friends/family to get free dances (I have paid for dances for guy friends)I have never seen what he's talking about. Not saying it hasn't happened, just not something I've seen.

I love his comments about not hustling guys or being there to socialize. Who goes to work to socialize? Sure, it's nice to socialize at any job, but the money is more important to most. I worked a few clubs where everyone was nice but the money wasn't there and nice doesn't pay my bills.

Btw, I was not saying this never happens (dancer/customer), just that in the majority of the cases I know the guy was spending. Yet I always see this here where guys think if they don't spend they have a better chance of dating. The girls I have seen date guys who didn't spend or spent little were those with other issues going on. Maybe insecure, maybe on drugs, who knows.

yoda57us
11-24-2011, 10:59 PM
I don't have an agenda other then REALITY- it happens, not often and not with many guys but it absolutely, uniquivically HAPPENS, that is ALL I am saying.

And no one has said it never happens...

It's really touching that you feel the need to defend strip clubs as singles bars for cool, good looking guys and dancers who don't really need to earn much money but it's not reality-even if it does HAPPEN once in a while.

yoda57us
11-24-2011, 11:03 PM
Has anyone else seen some guy not spending but getting free dances or a dancer paying for a guy to get a free one?

Nope!

Wellllllll.......

OK, I admit it. I got a free dance from a long-retired ATF six or seven years ago. It could have been my charm or my dashing middle-aged paunchy good looks but it was more than likely the fact that I had just given her a computer as a Christmas gift...(I still paid the house cut)

Kellydancer
11-24-2011, 11:05 PM
Nope!

Wellllllll.......

OK, I admit it. I got a free dance from a long-retired ATF six or seven years ago. It could have been my charm or my dashing middle-aged paunchy good looks but it was more than likely the fact that I had just given her a computer as a Christmas gift...(I still paid the house cut)

If you gave me a computer I'd give you a free dance too, because I'd be getting more out of it.

jimboe7373
11-24-2011, 11:33 PM
Okay everyone, I keep trying to end this and let it die by just asking for simple obvious comfirmation that it simply can and has in the past happened in SOME cases. However for some reason I can't get that and instead get further argument- so this will be my final post regardless of anyones response.

Kelly: I never said anyone was at the club to socialize, I said taking a 10-minute break from hard-core hustling on an 8 hr shift wasn't a big deal.

Aurora: Yes, I feel a little sorry for anyone who is in full go-mode and hustling every minute for a full shift- regardless of their work. It seems stressful and unpleasant- if they choose to do it, kudos for them, just not my cup of tea, that's all. It's not condescending at all, just my opinion- to each their own.

As to my wasting dancers time or using mind tricks, I do not go into the club with the intent to pick up a dancer. If I am there and on one of the few occasions where I feel a really strong chemistry and think it may be mutual I will not buy dances from her. I will buy dances for my friends from other girls and I will always tip on the rail or when girls come around for tips. I let her know up front that I won't be getting dances and tell her right away that I understand she needs to make money and have no problem with her leaving me to work the floor. I don't chase her and I don't hit on her. Sometimes, when the chemistry is right and the circumstances line up, she will continually come back to me and will sometimes ask me to meet her for breakfast or a drink after work or OTC on another day.

Yoda: Saying No dancer would react to this, that it would only work on druggies and alcholics most certainly implies you thinking it would never work or that it would only work with a dysfunctional person. You also asked if it had ever worked for anyone- I replied to your question.

I never said the dancers didn't need to earn money or that strip-clubs should be singles bars. If it happens even once, then it is reality, it may not be common- but it is reality.

Lopow: It's not a question of people feeling one way or another, it's either true or it's not- my only premise is that it can and does happen, which it obviously does, end of story.

Sorry that this thread wound up causing so much drama, it wasn't my intent- adios!.

yoda57us
11-24-2011, 11:43 PM
Yoda: Saying No dancer would react to this (never said that) that it would only work on druggies and alcholics (never said this either) most certainly implies you thinking it would never work or that it would only work with a dysfunctional person.



There you go jimbo putting words in my mouth again. You need to work on your reading comprehension skills before your next visit...

buh bye!

Kellydancer
11-25-2011, 12:32 AM
Kelly: I never said anyone was at the club to socialize, I said taking a 10-minute break from hard-core hustling on an 8 hr shift wasn't a big deal.

I don't know this, sure sounds like you are saying to socialize:


Seeking to hustle and get money from EVERY SINGLE guy that comes in seems a little stressful and not too fun. There are more than enough PL's and regular customers to make money off of- a little 10 minute interlude with someone you find attractive and may want to hook up with (if your status and conditions permit) doesn't seem like too big of a deal to me. I've seen girls pursue guys they were hot for in the club and give them free dances and even pay the house dance fee out of their own pockets. I don't have an agenda other then REALITY- it happens, not often and not with many guys but it absolutely, uniquivically HAPPENS, that is ALL I am saying.

Not to mention you said you feel sorry for me because I never did it or would ever. When it was slow I would talk to other dancers or other workers. Not talking to cheap guys.


That's great for you, but you are not every stripper. You can find quite a few posts right on this site where girls get attracted to a guy who comes into the club and doesn't see him as a customer or a cheap-ass. I don't think you could walk into a strip club in the world where this hasn't happened. You are talking way to absolute and if that is really your mentality I feel sorry for you.

So what, there are all kinds of women here that means nothing. Just because a few dancers may have done this doesn't mean most will.


Aurora: Yes, I feel a little sorry for anyone who is in full go-mode and hustling every minute for a full shift- regardless of their work. It seems stressful and unpleasant- if they choose to do it, kudos for them, just not my cup of tea, that's all. It's not condescending at all, just my opinion- to each their own.



As to my wasting dancers time or using mind tricks, I do not go into the club with the intent to pick up a dancer. If I am there and on one of the few occasions where I feel a really strong chemistry and think it may be mutual I will not buy dances from her. I will buy dances for my friends from other girls and I will always tip on the rail or when girls come around for tips. I let her know up front that I won't be getting dances and tell her right away that I understand she needs to make money and have no problem with her leaving me to work the floor. I don't chase her and I don't hit on her. Sometimes, when the chemistry is right and the circumstances line up, she will continually come back to me and will sometimes ask me to meet her for breakfast or a drink after work or OTC on another day

Wow so you tell dancers you are interested in you won't be spending money on her, but instead spend it on other dancers. Not only wouldn't I date you, I'd tell you off for being an asshole to me and walk away.

I seriously doubt you were a manager at clubs. I've dealt with a lot of ignorant managers, but never once did any manager tell me to hang out with cheapasses.

countedcrow
11-25-2011, 04:34 AM
so this will be my final post regardless of anyones response.

Don't leave yet, even after 2 pages of back and forth I still don't know if dating a stripper is fact or fiction!/:O

Oh well, I guess I'll have to go out to the club tonight bring my (PU)"A" game, not spend any money and figure it out all on my own.::)

Let_It_Fly
11-25-2011, 07:05 AM
Wow this topic went completely into left field...

MYTH: Guys coming to the club with less than $100 are considered cheap?

***I said COME to the club, not spend ITC. I've gone to SCs with a couple hundo, only to spend a few bucks because I wasn't feeling the vibe.

yoda57us
11-25-2011, 07:44 AM
Wow this topic went completely into left field...

MYTH: Guys coming to the club with less than $100 are considered cheap?

***I said COME to the club, not spend ITC. I've gone to SCs with a couple hundo, only to spend a few bucks because I wasn't feeling the vibe.

This is an area where fact/fiction is going to vary depending on who you ask. I started clubing in an era when all you did was stage tip so showing up with $50 or $100 was going to keep you going and the girls happy all night. Those days are gone clearly and, nowadays, most dancers measure their income in $20 increments not one or two bucks at a time.

There are no absolutes for this sort of thing but, as far as I'm concerned, showing up and tipping at the stage makes you a customer. Sitting at the bar and not tipping makes me wonder why you came. I happen to like private dances and I rarely go to a club without getting them. I don't make any judgements on guys that don't buy dances as long as they aren't leading girls on or simply leering at them from the bar and not tipping. As far as "feeling the vibe" goes, well, if you come in, stay for a beer and don't see anyone who appeals to you that's one thing. If you spend a few hours, drink a few beers and don't tip that's got nothing to do with vibe, that's just being cheap.

Let_It_Fly
11-25-2011, 09:43 AM
Just to clarify I do tip when in the club.* Also if I'm not feeling the vibe, I leave.


*I may have inadvertently started a trend, among some of the local free spenders of "no" tipping. That's tipping for declining a dancer's offer for a dances.

Aurora_Sunset
11-25-2011, 10:59 AM
Just to clarify I do tip when in the club.* Also if I'm not feeling the vibe, I leave.


*I may have inadvertently started a trend, among some of the local free spenders of "no" tipping. That's tipping for declining a dancer's offer for a dances.

To some dancers, $100 is cheap - to others, it's just fine. It depends on the club and how much they're used to making off guests and how many high-rollers frequent the place. If a guy from my old club spent $100 on tips and dances, I would not consider him cheap, but others here would say that you wouldn't even make their radar. I think it's very nice to tip when declining a dance, since that dancer probably spent some time talking to you and is now walking away without a sale. Most people wouldn't do that, and I rarely expect anyone to tip me while saying no. So in my eyes, even if you weren't spending that $100 on me, I'd still consider you generous for tipping even a dancer you weren't buying from.

Aurora_Sunset
11-25-2011, 11:00 AM
Okay everyone, I keep trying to end this and let it die by just asking for simple obvious comfirmation that it simply can and has in the past happened in SOME cases. However for some reason I can't get that and instead get further argument-

Actually, I have confirmed and admitted it several times... so I might have to agree with the lack of reading comprehension skills...

rickdugan
11-25-2011, 11:23 AM
If you spend a few hours, drink a few beers and don't tip that's got nothing to do with vibe, that's just being cheap.

Idk Yoda, I was with you right up until this. I try to give a club every chance before I bail out, particularly a new club or one I haven't been in for a while. Each year I seem to have a few nights (or so) where I am just not motivated enough to open up my wallet. Usually this happens in places where either the talent is sub-par or the girls' sales approaches are bad. Now keep in mind that, for me, this probably happens in only about 5% of my club visits in a year, but nonetheless it does happen.

My nights always start at the bar and I feel no pressure to spend. I also feel no pressure to leave before I am ready to do so. The onus is on the dancers to sell something to me, not on me to spend regardless of how bad they are. And believe me when I say that if at least one dancer in the place cannot coax me into spending when I am on my 4th or 5th Jack on the rocks, then it is a bad bunch indeed.

yoda57us
11-25-2011, 11:41 AM
And believe me when I say that if at least one dancer in the place cannot coax me into spending when I am on my 4th or 5th Jack on the rocks, then it is a bad bunch indeed.

I just don't have your patience rick...Most clubs get the length of time it takes me to drink one bottled water to convince me to stay.

rickdugan
11-25-2011, 12:09 PM
I just don't have your patience rick...Most clubs get the length of time it takes me to drink one bottled water to convince me to stay.

I'd feel the same way if I spent most of my time clubbing in Providence. However, some of the areas that I travel to simply have more limited options. Also, patience sometimes has a way of paying off. ;D

Kellydancer
11-25-2011, 12:15 PM
Regarding the whole is it cheap if you watch but don't tip I agree with Yoda. I have no problem with guys coming in, watching a bit, realizing they don't like the girls then leaving. I've seen this one a few times, but not often. Not all dancers will appeal to all girls and if you have all a certain type at a club and you like another type there's nothing offensive. However, I rarely saw this because I generally worked at variety clubs with everything, including maybe one large girl (who always had a pretty face). What I usually saw were the guys who sat for hours, not tipping at all.

This leads me to the question about the guys who tip on stage but not off and my opinion (which I stated earlier and in other threads)is if a guy is tipping but not buying dances I have no problem with this. I worked at several clubs where you could make $20 or so each time you went on stage and one memorable time I worked at a club where we got these two Texan oilmen who came in, didn't buy dances but tipped $50 each time. This was a Sunday and not many dancers so we went up often and I walked out with over $200 just from them. Months later we were talking about them and sadly they never came in again. However, guys who sit at stage and never tip shouldn't be there. I worked at a club where this was a problem and management did nothing. These guys weren't spending a lot either on the bar.

Aurora is completely 100% right about whether $100 is cheap or not depends on many variables. For me personally it would vary. I worked the midlevel clubs and some customers spent more and some spent less.

yoda57us
11-25-2011, 12:19 PM
I'd feel the same way if I spent most of my time clubbing in Providence. However, some of the areas that I travel to simply have more limited options. Also, patience sometimes has a way of paying off. ;D

LOL, as far as the Providence thing I couldn't agree more. Actually, it's rare that I go to any of my regular clubs without it being for a planned meeting with a favorite dancer.

I have about a 50% success rate on the road and don't club nearly as much as I used to when traveling. As I've mentioned before, I don't go looking for OTC company. A few good LD's and some conversation are fine with me. If I don't see that happening I generally just go back to my hotel and call a local escort agency...

rickdugan
11-25-2011, 02:16 PM
I just don't have your patience rick...Most clubs get the length of time it takes me to drink one bottled water to convince me to stay.


Actually, it's rare that I go to any of my regular clubs without it being for a planned meeting with a favorite dancer

You know, the day may come when this is my MO, but right now I can't live like that. For me, strong booze, naked women and the cover of darkness all part of my optimal clubbing experience. Heck, in some of the clubs down south I can add a good cigar to that as well. I want to enjoy as many of my vices as possible when I am out and about. I also cannot stand the thought of being scheduled. My current local club fav has tried it but I want no part of it.

This is entertainment for me and if I can't fully enjoy it, on my terms (within reason) and in my time, then I won't do it. And, in that same vein, once I am in a club it is my belief that, while it is my responsibility to ensure that I have enough money to pay for that entertainment, it is the dancers' job to induce me to spend that money. In most cases, that is not an issue, but every once in a while I end up walking out of a club with money that would have been spent if there was even a modicum of entertainment offered by the crew on shift.


I have about a 50% success rate on the road and don't club nearly as much as I used to when traveling. As I've mentioned before, I don't go looking for OTC company. A few good LD's and some conversation are fine with me. If I don't see that happening I generally just go back to my hotel and call a local escort agency...

Well, "looking" is a strong word, but staying tuned in to the opportunity and making a move when the odds look good are probably closer to my gig. My success rate is pretty high in some areas and much lower in others. Nowadays I have a pretty good nose for sniffing out the opportunities when they are not already offered outright, but I also don't try to force it. When I sense that my odds are not good, I never broach the topic and I am fine with simply enjoying the company of an entertaining dancer ITC and then crashing in my hotel room to sleep off the Jack.

Kellydancer
11-25-2011, 02:33 PM
^^^^^

So I take it the dancers who spend time with you are ones you prefer rather than the "wanna dance" girls? I think the wanna dance strategy works for clubs where there aren't many regulars but not for the regular clubs. I've generally worked clubs where the wanna dance didn't work except for guys who were traveling and those who didn't spend that much (or spent a lot but never came back).