View Full Version : The General Purpose "Camming Sucks Right Now" Thread
EllieGold
01-25-2014, 05:21 PM
I made $0 ... $0 on 2 hours on Streamate. There goes time I'll never get back. SM has been weird today. I can barely get pages to load and couldn't connect as well. Why?!?!
laurielegs
01-25-2014, 05:30 PM
Dammit. Streamate is down. Can not access it at all to check my placement. Streaming now but nobody in my room.
Blovely
01-25-2014, 05:36 PM
It's because of my post right above.. lol. sorry!
Lol.
Dammit. The site is down. Can not access it at all to check my placement. Streaming now but nobody in my room.
streamatemodels.com is down as well.
EllieGold
01-25-2014, 05:39 PM
Server crash I assume.
TheBrownFox
01-25-2014, 06:09 PM
Block the countries where those models come from. Once I did that I stopped having that problem.
Countries where no money comes from:
Romania
Colombia
Russian Federation
Yup, the few times I've been trolled/spammed by fellow MFC models, they've been from those regions. It's a shame how they're giving other models a bad rep.
kortneykay
01-25-2014, 06:32 PM
I've never had technical issues to complain about on SM but today was the pits. With 15 min left on the clock for SM I had a reg try and buy a 15 min block session, 3 times. I decided to lower my rate down to the block rate so we could play. Why did I do that? SM's stupid tech crap wouldn't let anyone on. Thanks for costing me $40 SM! Thank God I made it up with other sites, ugh.
RubyRapture
01-25-2014, 07:01 PM
I had that same exact problem last night and it made for the WORST earning hour I've ever had on SM. I had a few guys say they couldn't buy blocks or go into exclusive because of site issues. To top it off, I can't even get on at all this evening because the site appears to be down. >_<
I would just like to leave you a pleasant thought in the camming sucks thread. I'm on here frequently myself. You know the week was bad when you couln't even muster the finger strenght to post in the damn this day/week/month sucks thread. But... ( I wish I knew how to do gifs)
Just think about those abusive loser assholes that come into my room thinking they'll take me private or exclusive and that I'll be so desperate for their money( or worse yet their cock) that I'll take their stupid shit. Just think about their priceless faces when I BAN A MOTHERFUCKER straight from my room in the middle of a show. Damn straight I do.
justanothercamgirl
01-26-2014, 08:19 PM
I would just like to leave you a pleasant thought in the camming sucks thread. I'm on here frequently myself. You know the week was bad when you couln't even muster the finger strenght to post in the damn this day/week/month sucks thread. But... ( I wish I knew how to do gifs)
Just think about those abusive loser assholes that come into my room thinking they'll take me private or exclusive and that I'll be so desperate for their money( or worse yet their cock) that I'll take their stupid shit. Just think about their priceless faces when I BAN A MOTHERFUCKER straight from my room in the middle of a show. Damn straight I do.
I love to think of the shocked look on their face and their flaccid dick in their hands as they turn their head up to the heavens and curse my name, just like Captain Kirk in this scene from Star Trek...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54
RaeRae
01-26-2014, 09:48 PM
First night splitcamming finally and it's so deathly slow on all my sites. Maybe everyone is hiding in bed because of the cold.
LittleLexy
01-27-2014, 10:04 AM
That is so weird! Why would someone spend their money like that? Maybe he is too stupid to see how to rate, lol.
I've had this happen to me. Dumb ass...did a show, gave me gold during and after and then I get a 2 for my rating. My daughter also signed up and works for Streamate and had the same thing happen to her.
bbwchristyminx
01-27-2014, 10:51 AM
I'd much rather suck cock on a street corner than this horrible shit. Glitches up the ass on top of shitty ass traffic. WTF is going on with S.M lately? Grrrrrrrrrrr. This infuriates me. I'm not a top model but I make enough to live comfortably and save up but it's getting to the point that I want to 'shop around'. I've always had S.M on the list of favorite cam sites to work on but now I'm not so sure :(
ok.. vent over... sigh
bbwchristyminx
01-27-2014, 10:52 AM
your daughter cams too! holy shit that is AWESOME.. I envy you :)
Fitandpretty
01-27-2014, 10:57 AM
Soooooo slow today OMG :( logging off and hopping back on in a few hours. My brain needs a vacation from these stupid freeloaders. Please be a decent week
I'd much rather suck cock on a street corner than this horrible shit. Glitches up the ass on top of shitty ass traffic. WTF is going on with S.M lately? Grrrrrrrrrrr. This infuriates me. I'm not a top model but I make enough to live comfortably and save up but it's getting to the point that I want to 'shop around'. I've always had S.M on the list of favorite cam sites to work on but now I'm not so sure :(
ok.. vent over... sigh
I sooooo needed to see this today. It was horrible. Left and came back twice. All it does is kill my daily %. Pissing me off. I had LOTS of traffice. Not sure wtf. It's def not me. People said they could see me. But very depressing. I checked out a couple in my caetgory and they either left early or were leaving too. So mad. But your post helped me to know it wasn't just me. TY!
That is so weird! Why would someone spend their money like that? Maybe he is too stupid to see how to rate, lol.
seeing as how he does this to other girls i doubt he is too stupid to rate just stupid ;p but yay i was lucky to get the crap rating removed.
bbwchristyminx
01-27-2014, 11:01 AM
Oh honey, I just want to lay in the fetal position and listen to the Hansen Brothers.... ahhhh. that should do the trick! :)
bbwchristyminx
01-27-2014, 11:04 AM
I've made a whopping $1.75 in the past 45 minutes. Do you know how many houses I can by with that? Man I'm rich. Jealous much? :) totally kidding by the way.... Hopefully later will be better!! xoxox
Fitandpretty
01-27-2014, 11:06 AM
I've made a whopping $1.75 in the past 45 minutes. Do you know how many houses I can by with that? Man I'm rich. Jealous much? :) totally kidding by the way.... Hopefully later will be better!! xoxox
I got you beat. I made 4.23 in an hour lol. So damn sad lol
anonymous camgirl
01-27-2014, 11:09 AM
really girls?? come on now.. i am on i dunno how many cam sites altogether and it's been almost 2 hours now i made 13 bucks haha.. some of it was from NOT camming lol
Fitandpretty
01-27-2014, 11:13 AM
Hahaha! Where is everybody? I did pretty good this weekend and I finished all of my term papers last night so my schedule is clear for the rest of this week. Now nobody is giving me money when my schedules clear lol
SoloDesire
01-27-2014, 11:51 AM
3 hours and $26 later...FML
SM you've let me down.
anonymous camgirl
01-27-2014, 01:12 PM
well I made 25 and change on SM in over 3 hours.. you got me beat!
Holly_xoxo
01-27-2014, 01:17 PM
SM is annoying me so badly! I'm paranoid to do anything against their TOS because I don't want to have my account suspended but then I see someone who's selling their "fuck a fan tix" and I'm reminded why I normally don't look in other's rooms...WTF?!!
I just needed to vent that :)
Rhiiannon
01-27-2014, 02:41 PM
I couldn't get anyone into my room today! I don't know where they are! I have lingerie on, I'm in a sexy position, I'm talking to everyone... what... the... fuck? Like what the fuck?
EllieGold
01-27-2014, 03:39 PM
I did some google research today on Ripoff Report and found this. This model claims that they are ripping us off. I would like to get to the bottom of it and not believe its true because over the coarse of a year, I have loved SM!
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Streamate-/internet/Streamate-Streamatecom-SM-IS-SCAMMING-MODELS-ALL-THE-TIME-READ-MY-POST-IF-YOU-ARE-A-MOD-1116913
Aurora14
01-27-2014, 03:45 PM
Shark week is over, restocked makeup, wanting to hop on SM, plenty of ideas for clips.... Damn polar vortex freezes my mom's pipes so she can't take the kids to her house for the night she usually takes them. :( I was getting super depressed about being broke and finally snapped myself out of it. It Figures that once I'm motivated, rested, and ready to go that I would have no time to do any work. Sometimes I hate being a stay at home mom...
Incantatious
01-27-2014, 03:50 PM
I did some google research today on Ripoff Report and found this. This model claims that they are ripping us off. I would like to get to the bottom of it and not believe its true because over the coarse of a year, I have loved SM!
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Streamate-/internet/Streamate-Streamatecom-SM-IS-SCAMMING-MODELS-ALL-THE-TIME-READ-MY-POST-IF-YOU-ARE-A-MOD-1116913
Eh, she's talking about the 30 seconds or whatever of "free show" guys get in private.. *shrugs* I knew that I think before I even worked for SM and couldn't care less tbh.
She just seems caps lock hysterical.. If you don't wanna work for SM, by all means don't, but guys popping in and out of private hasn't stopped me making more than enough to afford me a great living, so idc. I'm not being "scammed".
Charlotteslut
01-27-2014, 04:02 PM
Well, you should be paid for your performance...even if it is just 30 seconds. I wouldn't really call it a scam, but they make no effort to make new models aware of this "feature" in the pages and pages of the performer manual. If you know about it and are cool with it, fine. But they are purposely leaving out this info, so it is deceptive.
It's not really fair to new models not to mention it at all when it would be so easy to have a little note about the 30 free seconds. So I get the feeling of being "scammed" because you are working/performing for those guys for free, even proper customers do stay longer.
whirlerz
01-27-2014, 04:06 PM
First night splitcamming finally and it's so deathly slow on all my sites. Maybe everyone is hiding in bed because of the cold.
That'd be me, was on earlier, but was soooo tired from running around in -2/windy weather trying to get food, etc. that now I just wanna veg out & watch PB Girls Next Door.
bbwchristyminx
01-27-2014, 04:36 PM
I did some google research today on Ripoff Report and found this. This model claims that they are ripping us off. I would like to get to the bottom of it and not believe its true because over the coarse of a year, I have loved SM!
I read and reread the alleged report and I didn't really see the point she was trying to make. I gathered from reading it multiple times that maybe she is not aware of the fact that the first so many seconds is free and I heard it was due to fraud protection or something. I believe Sam38g spoke about this before but I may be mistaken. Maybe someone else can chime in :)
Holly_xoxo
01-27-2014, 08:48 PM
Camming sucks right now because I can't figure out what times work best for me. I used to do days but found the mornings to be pretty dead. Then I tried doing late afternoon for a few hours then jump on around 10pm Pacific Time and it was a ghost town.
Today I did afternoon and figured I'd go on from 5pm to 8pm and here I am at 7:45 and saying screw it because I made a whopping 9$ since 5pm and nobody was coming in my room.
I guess I just assumed that nights would be busier and have more traffic. Some people seem to do really well with a night shift. Not sure why no one is interested in me after it gets dark Lol
Only time I haven't tried now is really early (like 4am)
AliceFun
01-27-2014, 08:59 PM
My today vent is about men, i often said i hate men, in fact i have no problem with quality men but some of them i consider poor creatures, most of them actually are just not capable.
Maybe i had bad luck with men in my life therefore this feeling about them but god forgive me, soo many are just dumb and not capable.
To make it worse, as a cam model i have to deal mostly with very stupid men where i often wonder 'how the heck can these creatures get on in life?'
The only valuable thing they have is that dick and some physical force & very little brain most of them, at least the ones i deal with.
Let me elaborate: the men we deal with online as our customers, i get some coming in free chat asking: "What can u do for me?" So u come in my room, i dont know u, cant see u, i cant read ur mind and u ask such question?
First u should introduce urself, tell something about urself and what u like, eventually read profile before u approach me then i could answer ur question of 'what can i do for you'; so how can these guys dont think about such very important details?
Then the question "are u horny?". Well ok, 1st of all i have no reason to be just horny, i am very cerebral woman, i am not feeling horny w.o a stimulation, i dont know how other women feel but i am never horny online, i perform an act, i do it for money and obviously they pay the money so yea, i act.
Maybe i am just too jaded from camming to understand how men function online. Also being single for many years i dont have the possibility to question a man and find out what is there in his brain, my 2 relations i had in the last 12 years were: one with a guy that was very similar to our members, kinda pervert and sex addicted and the 2nd was a dumb guy who's brain was mostly empty, of course they both played a role of how great men they are actually. whatever.
Then my own son, a very lazy boy not willing to learn anything or help me in the house with man jobs, i gave him a bulb to replace and he turned it too hard and broke it, he is not capable to hit a nail in a wood piece or do anything man job related. I sat 4 damn hrs to paint the big iron radiator in livingroom while he was laughing about me saying 'oh, u really think u can have this done? that's hard work and i dont know if u will succeed'. then he left meeting his friends. wtf? i told him he is supposed to do this and he always says "but i dont know how, nobody teach me'. well boy, u dont need somebody to teach u, all it takes is to want to learn then u'll find resources, google the damn thing and u'll see on youtube how to do things.
My problem is, i know and have the brain to do a lot of things, i dont have the psyhical force to do it plus my back is killing me, if i make a little effort i get the pain, i absolutely hate that my body dont help me to do what brain and heart want to do. and this boy has all the strenght and is healty but damn lazy and not interested; then he has the bad behavior and attitude from his father, that looser was not capable of anything as well.
More, my son is really a misogin, he says 'women are dumb'. wtf boy, how can u say that to ur mom? He says "oh my gf is a dumb child not able to walk straight on the street (they both 19), i do what i want with her, she is 'eating from my hand'." WTF??!! how can u be such a moron at age 19?
I gave this boy good education, raised him all alone away his father, still he has the attitude, bad behavior and character of his dad. I come to the conclusion they have it in their blood, the stupidity, arrogance, self entitled attitude and all these. I wish i could talk to that girl and tell her not to let him play her as he want but i cant, he deleted her phone nr from my phonebook and he keeps her away me, never let me talk to her.
I also believe men behave like they do cause we women often allow them to mistreat us. Of course in history women had no rights for looong time and we been downgraded a lot but now?? why alow them now to treat us not right?
I expect here some people (men or women) would comment or at least think 'yea, she is single, she is miserable thats why she bashes men, if she had a cock near her she would be happy and shut the heck up'.
Well in case u guys might think or feel this way let me tell u, as a general matter men are the source of soo many broken hearts, they let women pregnant and leave, they let women raise kids on their own, they cause all kind of violent conflicts, they fight, conquer and make this world not a peaceful place, women dont do all that.
I still want to believe i will one day find a good man for myself to be happy with, i dont know if this will happen, i feel my standards are just too high and the ones i could find around here that will want me are just too low on my standards.
Also, i wanted to give my son all attention and resources to raise him well instead of thinking about myself and my own needs, that's why i am still single cause a man would have taken away me time (work time included), resources and feelings, i invested all these into my son education. Still, he does not appreciate what i did/ do for him and behave bad no matter how much good i try to do for us here.
Oh there are a lot more things i wish to talk about but i would make this post way too long so that's it for now haha.
As a final conclusion: i love good men who truly understand what it takes to be a real MAN and i hate the loosers. Have Peace!
anonymous camgirl
01-27-2014, 09:15 PM
^^ AMEN!.. men mostly do act like this because women allow it for some reason.. If MOST women wouldn't put up with such nonsense men would shape up... I coulda wrote this post myself.. except my son told me I did an OUTSTANDING job as his mother .. and he respects women.. I think maybe you were to much of an enabling doormat so he doesn't respect you or any other women.. don't get mad at what I say.. but you took part in his behavior.. not that his father is shit.. both my son's fathers are shit... and they respect me and women.. much better copy than their father.. I do not know you.. but you have allowed your son and showed him that's how you should be treated. As far as men go?? they will do the least amount of work and get away with the most as far as women are concerned. You have to make them really work for it! Including your son.. sad but true.. In my house they do it my way .. my kids are scared when I get mad.. they start scurrying around doing exactly what I want them to do...with their head down shutting their mouth.. My oldest has tried back talking to me but he gets shut down right quick. I do NOT tolerate it. You need to find a way to turn this around.. it's hard ... maybe try to search about codependency...
Over the last few years, I have been struggling with enabling people.. I have to hold back a lot from being to generous that it makes me sad and unhappy because I don't know anyone who would give so much to make another life's better.. just over xmas I bought myself some booties from VS online.. I almost gave them away to my g/f.. I paid 30 bucks for them and instead of exchanging them I was just gonna give them away.. My sister and friend and family having a really hard time.. I helped them some but not as much as she wanted.... and its hard for me to allow people to go through hell while I just sit there and watch... but I came to the conclusion tonite that If I am enabling another person . I am interfering in their life path .. so it's not good for me or them.. everytime someone has a problem I am the person that swoops in and fixes it.. so I am trying to learn not to be that person anymore and everyone around me is not liking it, but I have to stay strong and they will get used to it or leave.. oh well. It's time for me to design the life I always wanted and I get really angry actually when someone wants me to help them.. .. damn I helped for 20 yrs straight go help yourself already.. it's my time to shine. My time to be happy.. to live my life the way I always wanted to.
AliceFun
01-27-2014, 09:31 PM
^^^ Your post make me wonder what i did wrong here, i can only say i love my son soo much & did everything for him to have it good, i guess he took all for granted and maybe saw my love as weakness. Some people are too good sometimes and they are taken advantage of, i think this is my case. No matter how much i love him i know i want him out of my house, point is he 1st have to finish university to be able to get a job and leave for good. I want him to see and feels what is means NOT to have me as support. It's difficult cause all my family love and care for him thinking i am the bad ass & i just dont want my mom to have another heart attack or brain stroke cause of my actions against him. Things will be sorted out sooner or later, God help me!
ETA: u added things so i add some too: i am not the person type to jump in helping others, not at all, i help my mom cause she is sick and i have a moral obligation to help her and i did/ do my best for my son (his future too-> his studies) because i took responsibility 19 years ago that i am going to be a responsible parent and i would not dare to bring a child into this world without being responsible. It's my obligation to be a good parent & offer him resources and tools to be able to study & have a good job so he can move out later on, he cant stay with me in this apartment, not enough space for us. This is what i understand as being a good parent. The fact that he understood things wrong is not my fault but his.
TheBrownFox
01-27-2014, 09:43 PM
*hugs, Alice* I agree that men are the source of so many broken hearts, and I feel like I'm gonna have a hard time dealing with Valentine's Day this year. I'm hoping this hot stone massage I've scheduled for that day will help relax me and lift my spirits.
cherryblossomsinspring
01-27-2014, 11:05 PM
So glad I got a private from a guy I can barely stand. He's nice sometimes but so glad I rocked it with him in private.
Also I'm tired of the " hey it's been so long since I've seen you" . Yeah and you're still fucking broke so why the fuck do you think I'd be happy to see your lame ass on the site. Go away!! No I don't care that you changed your name!
One of my regs is now going into the shit box. He did that hey I can't wait to play can you hold for a moment. I thought wow I haven't had a " let me masturbate in free chat and pretend I need to get ready" since I started camming. This is an all time low. I just said ooh looks like no one wants to play ... going on another site " closed room".
Also does every loser think " wow how's the weather there?" going to work. Sick of people trying to find new shit to figure out where I live. Didn't I say I was cold? GTF out of my room with your in person pussy hunting!! You're broke!
I'm so pissed I could rip a guys dick off, beat him with it and make him gag on that shit! Pfft!!
JaneBurgess
01-27-2014, 11:06 PM
I am more concerned with the review sites where customers are complaining about charges randomly showing up on their cards, how customer service treats them terribly, how their accounts are shut down without an explanation, etc. That is find to be flat out scary because mistreating your customers will just make them leave your site.
I did some google research today on Ripoff Report and found this. This model claims that they are ripping us off. I would like to get to the bottom of it and not believe its true because over the coarse of a year, I have loved SM!
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Streamate-/internet/Streamate-Streamatecom-SM-IS-SCAMMING-MODELS-ALL-THE-TIME-READ-MY-POST-IF-YOU-ARE-A-MOD-1116913
JaneBurgess
01-27-2014, 11:09 PM
I don't understand how that is fraud protection. The other cam sites charge from the second you enter private. You have the 30 second abusers that pop in and out all the time. I can see how that would piss off a performer that wasn't awake of the 30 second free show.
I read and reread the alleged report and I didn't really see the point she was trying to make. I gathered from reading it multiple times that maybe she is not aware of the fact that the first so many seconds is free and I heard it was due to fraud protection or something. I believe Sam38g spoke about this before but I may be mistaken. Maybe someone else can chime in :)
MaryxxxJane
01-28-2014, 12:43 AM
Well I had my first baiter tonight. Had a model pm me with all this info about some high roller she met off of mfc. Telling me to contact him and all that shit. Thank god for this forum otherwise I probably would have bitten. I made sure to report her ass. Thanks for the tip about blocking certain countries these models frequently come from.
LittleLexy
01-28-2014, 09:03 AM
your daughter cams too! holy shit that is AWESOME.. I envy you :)
LOL yeah she started about 2 months ago :)
LittleLexy
01-28-2014, 09:17 AM
30 seconds peepers piss me off..but what can you do about it? Nothing really, so I just try to protect myself from them as much as I can. I didn't know about them either when I started, it took only a hour to catch on to something was wrong. I signed out and questioned another cam model. Raising your private rate will help with this, but you take the risk of making less money. I raised my rate to 7.99 a minute and that took care of this problem. I recently lowered it in exchange for multiple people in my private. Yes I am getting these guys again...but I'm making more money in private then I did at 7.99 a minute.
Renton
01-28-2014, 09:51 AM
30 seconds peepers piss me off..but what can you do about it? Nothing really, so I just try to protect myself from them as much as I can. I didn't know about them either when I started, it took only a hour to catch on to something was wrong. I signed out and questioned another cam model. Raising your private rate will help with this, but you take the risk of making less money. I raised my rate to 7.99 a minute and that took care of this problem. I recently lowered it in exchange for multiple people in my private. Yes I am getting these guys again...but I'm making more money in private then I did at 7.99 a minute.
I did the same thing, I lowered them from 6.99 to 4.99 and now I make way more, lots more people stay in premium, I had 4 guys at some point yesterday :) The peepers annoy me too but oh well, I'm making more money so I'm not gonna complain too much :D
AliceFun
01-28-2014, 10:44 AM
now customers can expand the customer list and see who's in the room. Maybe that's the reason for all the issues?
Can u explain with more details pls, what u mean exactly? Ty!
Vlodina
01-28-2014, 10:47 AM
If you go into a girls room and click on the number showing how many guys are in her room (if she's in party chat), you get a drop down showing the names of the guys in her room.
However, I noticed this a week or so ago.
Cam_Model_Jess
01-28-2014, 11:17 AM
^^But I've been seeing that feature for at least 9 months now... possibly more than a year. The only new thing that I've noticed on the customer's end is the format/font. The only thing I've noticed on the model's end is that when you click "edit" next to your profile picture, and look to choose a new photo, the option to move profile pics to the gallery is no longer available (which makes sense, and is nice).
Rhiiannon
01-28-2014, 11:24 AM
Ugh, I can't get people into my room for shit! No matter what I do! I don't understand why no one is coming in here. Yeah, my lighting is a little shitty now since I tripped over my lamp and broke it, but jeez. T_T
JenniferNorth
01-28-2014, 01:29 PM
Slowwwwwwww, motherf*ckers! I want my new SM account to get approved. I miss the busy days on there and HATE the cheapos on IML! That is all.
kortneykay
01-28-2014, 01:50 PM
^^^^ I wanted to respond to the 30 second peeper issue. The 30 second peepers abuse the pvt chat and will continue to do so until SM does something about it. I don't understand what the point of it is? I can understand the point if SM had a non-free chat option. Most guys see a photo, aren't sure if the girl exactly like it, and want a little preview. However, the site is a FREE chat site. What you see is what you get. If a model is in free chat and the guy clicks on "You will be charged X per min" he should be charged as soon as he enters, point, blank, period. By clicking that button he has virtually committed to allowing the site to charge him. The 30 sec rule on a FREE chat site is totally mind boggling to me. They are encouraging freeloaders to bounce around jacking off to every model they find attractive, and bust a free nut. 30 seconds is a long time when you're already on the verge of an orgasm. Orgasms take seconds and all the buildup he's getting is from him bouncing around from pvt to pvt.
In fact, I've written down most of the 30 sec peepers and not one of them have come into my Free chat site to chat or has actually become a customer of mine, it's a total free for all and they know this yet I ONLY see them in my room during a pvt. It's hard to block someone who only comes in when you're in a pvt, and you're too slow to block them because you're trying to please the customer who's paying. What has helped me the most was to set my pvt chat higher than my exclusive chat. The guys who aren't aware get charged more in pvt and the 30 sec peepers can do what they want, I actually encourage customers in the pvt to go exl so he can save $2 and no one can come in and direct his show. It's working but in a way it's also scaring away customers who just see the high pvt rate, and leave. I prefer it this way though.
Vlodina
01-28-2014, 02:12 PM
SM, page 1, been sitting here for 10 minutes talking to myself with just a handful of guys popping in and then leaving. :-\