View Full Version : Reviewers and Hobbyists
DaniellaOHC
09-23-2012, 10:05 PM
Coulden't the review boards be destroyed though? I mean comeon, its a site where guys are openly discussing and re-living illegal activities. The ladies (for the most part) don't use the illegal language, its the men that do, its a more dangerous situation for them.
If a couple big boards got busted, and the hobbyists went down for their statements, that would not cure things, but significantly affect them.
Just like the Craigslist take down, no, it did not stop the boom of Backpage, but there are a really decent number of guys who will not use BP ever because of what they saw happen to CL. A lot of guys I see started on BP because they heard about it in the news, but left the second they heard about safer alternatives after all the busts they heard about.
If some hobby boards were taken out, there would have to been some guys who will by default never touch a hobby board again, and I bet the remaining boards would get much stricter with the details allowed in reviews....just a thought.
dixievista
09-23-2012, 10:28 PM
Who is going to destroy the boards though? For every girl you find who hates them, there's another girl who loves them. How are they going to catch the guys? They don't post ads, and the boards don't have their personal information. It's all anonymous in the end, as it should be.
Review boards help keep everyone safe, it's a necessary evil and you have to take the good with the bad just like anything in life. Just learn how to work the board for you. it's simple, really. if you don't want reviews, put a cap on it. explain to your clients. If they want a reference or to see you again they know they have to do what you ask, simple.
Without boards, guys get robbed, beat up, busted for trying to do something that, while illegal here, is legal elsewhere all over the world because it SHOULD BE, etc.. Without boards, girls have fewer options for free advertising, no way to prove their legitimacy to clients except through UTR channels.
I don't want any hobbyists getting busted - unless they're doing something that hurts people. Hobbying doesn't hurt anyone, and neither does posting reviews. If you can't handle them, have them removed and don't allow them.
Lovelyme
09-24-2012, 02:33 AM
Who is going to destroy the boards though? For every girl you find who hates them, there's another girl who loves them. How are they going to catch the guys? They don't post ads, and the boards don't have their personal information. It's all anonymous in the end, as it should be.
Review boards help keep everyone safe, it's a necessary evil and you have to take the good with the bad just like anything in life. Just learn how to work the board for you. it's simple, really. if you don't want reviews, put a cap on it. explain to your clients. If they want a reference or to see you again they know they have to do what you ask, simple.
Without boards, guys get robbed, beat up, busted for trying to do something that, while illegal here, is legal elsewhere all over the world because it SHOULD BE, etc.. Without boards, girls have fewer options for free advertising, no way to prove their legitimacy to clients except through UTR channels.
I don't want any hobbyists getting busted - unless they're doing something that hurts people. Hobbying doesn't hurt anyone, and neither does posting reviews. If you can't handle them, have them removed and don't allow them.
Ok.... I have to agree with everything here. Even though I do not agree with half of the shit that goes on on the boards, I would never want to hear that a client of mine was busted. I heart those guys way too much. I mean - they are good people.
For some reason, most ladies here think the review boards are filled with sleazebags. I'm not saying that's not true - I'm saying that there are some GREAT guys on there.
At the end of the day , boards like eccie, ter, bestgfe keep up safe. If you were a guy , wouldn't you want to know if a girl was an ROB or not? I would. I hate that some guys do nothing but degrade women on there and I hate the fact that some think they're hot shit because they've written x amount of reviews but I rather have the boards for my own research/communicating with the ladies than having nothing at all.
Nikki_Fox
09-24-2012, 05:02 AM
I agree it is nice to have a means for ladies to communicate I do not agree that is it safe just because you are on there - recent incident in TN. A lady was a p411 provider and she cooperated and set up 8 guys with LE. I believe that may have something to do with recent emails from 411 but that is just speculation on my part. I understand it is an easy avenue for ladies to enter and sustain business I agree clients should not be subjected to cash and dash and other situations but that's where I think it should end. Sessions should be confidential period
Edited To clarify my above statement - I understand nothing is fool proof with safety from LE and we all have to work with whatever avenues we can find to attempt to stay safe - but it is always a slippery slope - if I had not worked before the boards I am sure I would see things differently --
It seems like someone could/should start a review site that does not include intimate details. Maybe just a rating system for the client to put, 5-Very satisfied, 4-somewhat satisfied, etc.
That ways guys would feel safe and have some idea of the likely experience and the escorts for whom intimate details are a problem would not feel violated.
This new site might have to offer some incentive for guys and gals to migrate there. I don't know if the intimate details are really that important to most guys. I mean they're fun to read sometimes, but I doubt anybody takes them without a big block of salt.
dixievista
09-24-2012, 09:49 PM
The intimate details are actually the money maker for the site. The site makes most of the money off of the subscriptions for read the erotica, and while certainly a large portion of memberships are those actually hobbying, it's the reading of the reviews that makes them money more than the searching - guys spend hours. About 80% of my clients have read anywhere from ten to all 50+ of my reviews before seeing me - they aren't using TER to find me, they're using it to figure out what they're going to get and what they might want. But again, I'm using the site to it's full potential as a provider because I've got pretty good odds of them never getting into court through my own personal connections.
No other site has ever attempted to do what you're suggesting and while it's a great idea, I don't see it happening. Date-Check is a great idea of a substitute for P411 but the design is awful, the site is unprofessional, and it just feels icky. Have any of you see Certified To Provide? My god that site makes me want to VOMIT. I understand what they were aiming for, but man did they miss the mark!!!! Definitely the poor man's tacky Facebook. I just don't see anyone being able to put together something as functional in form and nice looking and easy to use as TER that would be an adequate substitute in most markets. If I could figure it out myself I would....
BlackSheEp3
09-24-2012, 11:25 PM
Who is going to destroy the boards though? For every girl you find who hates them, there's another girl who loves them. How are they going to catch the guys? They don't post ads, and the boards don't have their personal information. It's all anonymous in the end, as it should be.
Review boards help keep everyone safe, it's a necessary evil and you have to take the good with the bad just like anything in life. Just learn how to work the board for you. it's simple, really. if you don't want reviews, put a cap on it. explain to your clients. If they want a reference or to see you again they know they have to do what you ask, simple.
Without boards, guys get robbed, beat up, busted for trying to do something that, while illegal here, is legal elsewhere all over the world because it SHOULD BE, etc.. Without boards, girls have fewer options for free advertising, no way to prove their legitimacy to clients except through UTR channels.
I don't want any hobbyists getting busted - unless they're doing something that hurts people. Hobbying doesn't hurt anyone, and neither does posting reviews. If you can't handle them, have them removed and don't allow them.
Good info, I almost got robbed once.
I seriously feared of my life since I'm not strapped and never been in a real fight before haha but yeah the boards are a Godsend if used properly.
goddesskali
09-26-2012, 10:46 AM
Have any of you see Certified To Provide? My god that site makes me want to VOMIT. I understand what they were aiming for, but man did they miss the mark!!!! Definitely the poor man's tacky Facebook. I just don't see anyone being able to put together something as functional in form and nice looking and easy to use as TER that would be an adequate substitute in most markets. If I could figure it out myself I would....
Its not an advertising board.
All of this pmb stuff is making my head hurt. I'm seriously considering unplugging from all of them. lol
***runs off to bang head into wall***
Lovelyme
09-27-2012, 08:17 AM
The intimate details are actually the money maker for the site. The site makes most of the money off of the subscriptions for read the erotica, and while certainly a large portion of memberships are those actually hobbying, it's the reading of the reviews that makes them money more than the searching - guys spend hours. About 80% of my clients have read anywhere from ten to all 50+ of my reviews before seeing me - they aren't using TER to find me, they're using it to figure out what they're going to get and what they might want. But again, I'm using the site to it's full potential as a provider because I've got pretty good odds of them never getting into court through my own personal connections.
No other site has ever attempted to do what you're suggesting and while it's a great idea, I don't see it happening. Date-Check is a great idea of a substitute for P411 but the design is awful, the site is unprofessional, and it just feels icky. Have any of you see Certified To Provide? My god that site makes me want to VOMIT. I understand what they were aiming for, but man did they miss the mark!!!! Definitely the poor man's tacky Facebook. I just don't see anyone being able to put together something as functional in form and nice looking and easy to use as TER that would be an adequate substitute in most markets. If I could figure it out myself I would....
ROTFLMFAO @ poor man's facebook. That's just great. I thought about joining CTP.. but the last thing I wanted to be apart of was some (please forgive me for saying this) "hooker sorority". The chick that runs it is annoying as hell. I was also told about the "420 club" they have on there. Really? A 420 club and you're supposed to be a classy joint. I mean the site , from what I've heard, it all sorts of FAIL.
dixievista
09-27-2012, 12:10 PM
OMG I can't believe, you've got to join it just to get a laugh seriously. It's literally like they took the cheap "social networking!" addon that comes with your hosting package, added a logo (which just shows up as a broken link anyway) and their personal text, and launched it. Seriously please go look just for a laugh.
I agree, if it were nicely done at least the chaff would fall to the bottom and maybe some nice clients could come out of it, but at the moment it's just a BILLION hookers and a few cheapasses on a poorly made site. If I were doing it, I'd make it much more elite and utr - having Eros sponsor looks good until you realize it brings all the trash too.
Couldn't they have made a better name than 420 club? At least be a little creative!!! I'm only thinking about it for a few minutes and I can come up with Pure Green Fun and Five Leaf Elite.
AnnelieseBell
10-10-2012, 11:52 PM
No offense dear but you must be kidding me. The ECCIE board itself is a sleazeball site. It's a joke. Have you seen the ladies that post in the "Diamonds and Tuxedos" section??? Those are NOT high end ladies. Everyone and anyone can post there. D&T also isn't a new forum. It has been there for over a year now and you're better off posting ads on backpage than trying to get clients from there.
The only high end forum there is IS Blue Pond. However, the traffic there sucks. And it's a member's only board.
I have seen the ladies who post in that section because I am one of them. I think of all the forums the D&T section of ECCIE has the most interesting topics of discussion, posted by a lovely lady named nina sastri, who I doubt anyone would refer to as "NOT high end".
Lovelyme
10-11-2012, 12:14 AM
I have seen the ladies who post in that section because I am one of them. I think of all the forums the D&T section of ECCIE has the most interesting topics of discussion, posted by a lovely lady named nina sastri, who I doubt anyone would refer to as "NOT high end".
Yes, I've met Nina and she's a very good friend of mine. Gorgeous, A total sweetheart, true high end escort, very genuine person. However, I still stand by what I said. Most ladies that post there aren't high end. That board has changed big time over the years. Hell I remember being apart of a private forum on ASPD when Anne Marie and Nicolette Morgandy was around. Those were true high end gals. It was fun to sit on the sidelines and watch them banter. There is nothing high end about eccie.
DaniellaOHC
10-11-2012, 10:20 AM
I have such a girl crush on Nina! I've never met her or even interacted with her though...shes too cool :(
Her photography is so utterly badass...like really, when her pictures are next to some of those other girls its just like "you've officially been serve'd, chick"
Lovelyme
10-11-2012, 11:23 AM
Yup. She's drop dead gorgeous in person and her accent is so sexy! If we weren't good friends, I'd be totally gay for her. I'm going to send her an email so she can join us on sw.
lestat1
10-12-2012, 09:44 AM
It seems like someone could/should start a review site that does not include intimate details. Maybe just a rating system for the client to put, 5-Very satisfied, 4-somewhat satisfied, etc.
That ways guys would feel safe and have some idea of the likely experience and the escorts for whom intimate details are a problem would not feel violated.
This new site might have to offer some incentive for guys and gals to migrate there. I don't know if the intimate details are really that important to most guys. I mean they're fun to read sometimes, but I doubt anybody takes them without a big block of salt.
I don't need intimate details in paragraph form, but I do need at least check boxes listing services provided. Without that, sooner or later I'm going to book an appointment that is not what I'm looking for, and the result is a mediocre review.That's a lose-lose situation for her and me. The problem with just a rating is that I might be completely satisfied by an appointment that you would hate, and vice-versa.
sexymadness
10-12-2012, 04:35 PM
Jacquelyn:
You are correct. It is patriarchal and bullshit. The women are objectified on the review sites. Unfortunately, you will find that over 80% of the escort industry in the US is pimp and john controlled. There are some ladies that do not allow reviews, can call their own shots, and make good money without them. However, they are few and far between and represent like 2% of the escort industry. Most of the women have to answer to pimps (agencies for example) or hobbyists on review boards.
We as providers shouldn't have to put up with it. But, you need to understand the dynamics of how the escort industry works. Most of the women will not argue against review boards, because they have been conditioned to accept abuse, neglect and being treated like property since they got into any form of prostitution usually between 12-14 years of age. Now, I know some of you guys on this board are going to get defensive about this and argue that that isn't you and it probably isn't. But, I'm referring to most women who end up as escorts. For example, I know of a well-known escort on TER who was forced into prostitution by a pimp when she was around 13. She was working on the streets then. She was beaten repeatedly by this man from the time she 13 or so. By the time she was old enough to leave him at 18, she didn't, because she was still terrified of him. He became omniscient to her. It's hard to explain to someone who has never been abused in this way about the damaging effects that it has and how many times the woman in this situation will grow to be dependent emotionally on a pimp and even practically worship him. It's often referred to as the Stockholm Syndrome. Many times, the pimp is the only person in their life that they have, because he has isolated her from family and friends the way an abusive husband does to his wife.
She worked at the same agency that I did for awhile. At this point, she called him her "boyfriend" and practically bragged about how she makes all the money in the relationship. She eventually left the agency and started working on her own. She started to try to leave her pimp and even put a restraining order against him to no avail. She began to get reviews on ter and became one of the top most reviewed providers. From what I understand, she was able to get rid of him, but claimed not too long ago that she was still "in love" with him and misses him. So to make a long story short, trying to convince a woman from that background that reviews are abusive, controlling and male-dominated is going to go in one ear and out the other. All she knows is that she isn't getting beaten anymore, and she gets a lot of clients/money. Unfortunately, this is the case for most women in the industry even though most of them will never tell you this and even deny that they have a pimp.
Stripping and strip clubs are a different story. Although even in strip clubs, you aren't paid to be there for the hours you work. Instead, you have to pay them a door fee which I think is still exploitation. I completely understand how you feel, and you have a right to feel that way. I feel that way as well. It is our bodies and therefore should be our choice on what we want to charge for our services and what services we are willing to provide. Unfortunately, boards like TER have dictated what price a girl can charge and what she better do sexually if she wants it. It isn't right. If those boards were shut down completely, I'd be one happy woman.
You can get guys to post comments on your website about how they enjoyed their time with you. There are some websites that let you know about bad clients like providerbuzz.com. I will tell you upfront that it is very hard to get anything above $300/hour without having reviews. I mean you can advertise on Eros, Cityvibe and P411, but without reviews, you probably won't get many calls. I don't do reviews, and I don't get many escort calls. I placed an ad on Cityvibe for a month and got nothing. I'm in Orange County, California so that might have something to do with it. I don't know. I haven't tried Eros out here yet, but haven't had much luck in the cities that I did try it. I still have ads on P411 and Date-check. Nothing. If you try to advertise on backpage, you probably won't be able to get any business if your rate is over $250. There are too many 99 dollar meth addicts on that site, at least, in California. Where I live and in Los Angeles, a lot of these assholes, er, sorry, hobbyists go to even cheaper sites than TER like Humaniplex which is a regional site. And on that site, you can't even get anything over $250 an hour and many times they only want to do half hours (because it's cheaper - $140). On top of that, they expect everything for it such as bbbj, cim, cum anywhere they want on you, etc. They will flat out pm you off the site and ask what's on your menu - classy, right?
Still, I am glad that I have this forum to go to to talk about these problems. Most of the time, you can never discuss these issues with other providers off any of the review boards. Many of them are too busy trying to kiss ass to get appointments and reviews and don't see anything wrong with it.
Regards,
Cherry L.
Lovelyme
10-12-2012, 04:45 PM
Jacquelyn:
You are correct. It is patriarchal and bullshit. The women are objectified on the review sites. Unfortunately, you will find that over 80% of the escort industry in the US is pimp and john controlled. There are some ladies that do not allow reviews, can call their own shots, and make good money without them. However, they are few and far between and represent like 2% of the escort industry. Most of the women have to answer to pimps (agencies for example) or hobbyists on review boards.
First of all, where the fuck did you get your statistics from? This is bullshit.
strippername
10-12-2012, 06:06 PM
^I love it when you get angry. Simmah down!
wake&cake
10-12-2012, 06:23 PM
You are making my point exactly -- I am talking BEFORE the internet - review boards - paid advertising sites -before "hobbiest" -- we , the women ruled the industry
This. All. Day. Ok I entered the sex industry in 2001 and worked for an agency from 2003-08 and back then legit, pretty, non gfe girls charged 400-500 an hour on eros nola and the really hot women could easily get double for an hour session. Nobody played the acronym game, full service was the only term men regularly used and if you did have the rare gfe request they were usually referring to kissing and romance, not bareback oral or vaginal sex. Thats not to say that you wouldn't hear "hey you mean you're gonna use a condom to blow me??", especially from the old men, or guys who had never paid for it before, but they wouldn't try to pressure you into it by saying "well so and so does it uncovered for the same price and I get to cum in her mouth" etc etc, and then give you a bad review because of it.
The internet has certainly brought our little underworld to the forefront and made us all extremely accessible. It's definitely attracted a new type of customer but in my opinion many of these customers are not the ones we want. They are cheap, raunchy and believe they are qualified to tell you what you are worth. My phones ring all day with guys wanting the most for less. And what consumer doesn't want the most that he thinks he can get for less? Smart consumers do their homework and seek out the best deal. But when you are talking about a human being and not a factory made object there should be a certain level of respect that is not there on the review boards. If the boards were nothing more than a tool to help potential clients ensure that the lady advertised isn't a bait and switch or a thief or giving truly terrible service then it would helpful for all of us involved, escorts and clients. I don't want guys getting robbed and taken advantage of I want him to feel safe and confident when he calls me that I am who I advertise myself to be and that he is going to enjoy himself. But as they are now, in my opinion they only help certain types of escorts whose niche services are sought by a certain type of client, and they can put unfair expectations on the rest of us. I believe there are probably a lot of women that started out using the internet to advertise in the past 5 or so years that did things that they dont offer now in order to gain reviews, because they thought it was the norm but then learned they could still get money without it. And it's definitely created an entitlement mindset in many of the men who access our internet ads.
Some girls will blame it all on the men but truthfully they are just doing what they can get away with, it's the set of women that are willing to lower their standards and allow these guys who literally have to pay to be in their company to dictate how they carry out a session that are validating these "rules". They are letting clients train them on how to be the kind of escort that they want them to be, the kind that benefits the client mostly. Now if a woman has no problem performing a certain service or even enjoys it then thats great, build your brand off of that and make your money. I don't judge my sisters in this business or begrudge them for what they do. I just want us to be the bosses and the ones who are in control. If she's adhering to guidelines set by a hobbyist, on what to offer and how to charge then I am saying she has to share the blame for things being so drastically different, and they are, anyone who did this work before the dawn of the internet escort will tell u that. I for one chose this path because of the major earning potential and secondly because it felt liberating to take my sexuality in my own hands and do what I wanted with it, not what some customer whose internet handle is catdaddy1969 told me to do with it.
BlkSharpie
10-12-2012, 06:31 PM
Unfortunately, you will find that over 80% of the escort industry in the US is pimp and john controlled. There are some ladies that do not allow reviews, can call their own shots, and make good money without them. However, they are few and far between and represent like 2% of the escort industry.
I see you are a very new member... are you LE?
Cause this sounds a lot like the crap LE and politicians say to justify why they blow tax-payers money on arresting people for paying for and providing sexual services.
Im not even trying to be funny. You make me nervous.
sexymadness
10-12-2012, 09:09 PM
Here are some links that you might want to take a look at: . That's one and here is another:
These should give you a realistic idea of what goes on in the world of escorting and no, I'm not in law enforcement. I wouldn't waste my time writing all this if I was. Wake&cake, I love what you had to write. I remember those days before the internet and ter.
sexymadness
10-12-2012, 09:10 PM
Here are some links that you might want to take a look at: . That's one and here is another:
These should give you a realistic idea of what goes on in the world of escorting and no, I'm not in law enforcement. I wouldn't waste my time writing all this if I was. Wake&cake, I love what you had to write. I remember those days before the internet and ter.
Nikki_Fox
10-12-2012, 09:50 PM
This. All. Day. Ok I entered the sex industry in 2001 and worked for an agency from 2003-08 and back then legit, pretty, non gfe girls charged 400-500 an hour on eros nola and the really hot women could easily get double for an hour session. Nobody played the acronym game, full service was the only term men regularly used and if you did have the rare gfe request they were usually referring to kissing and romance, not bareback oral or vaginal sex. Thats not to say that you wouldn't hear "hey you mean you're gonna use a condom to blow me??", especially from the old men, or guys who had never paid for it before, but they wouldn't try to pressure you into it by saying "well so and so does it uncovered for the same price and I get to cum in her mouth" etc etc, and then give you a bad review because of
The internet has certainly brought our little underworld to the forefront and made us all extremely accessible. It's definitely attracted a new type of customer but in my opinion many of these customers are not the ones we want. They are cheap, raunchy and believe they are qualified to tell you what you are worth. My phones ring all day with guys wanting the most for less. And what consumer doesn't want the most that he thinks he can get for less? Smart consumers do their homework and seek out the best deal. But when you are talking about a human being and not a factory made object there should be a certain level of respect that is not there on the review boards. If the boards were nothing more than a tool to help potential clients ensure that the lady advertised isn't a bait and switch or a thief or giving truly terrible service then it would helpful for all of us involved, escorts and clients. I don't want guys getting robbed and taken advantage of I want him to feel safe and confident when he calls me that I am who I advertise myself to be and that he is going to enjoy himself. But as they are now, in my opinion they only help certain types of escorts whose niche services are sought by a certain type of client, and they can put unfair expectations on the rest of us. I believe there are probably a lot of women that started out using the internet to advertise in the past 5 or so years that did things that they dont offer now in order to gain reviews, because they thought it was the norm but then learned they could still get money without it. And it's definitely created an entitlement mindset in many of the men who access our internet ads.
Some girls will blame it all on the men but truthfully they are just doing what they can get away with, it's the set of women that are willing to lower their standards and allow these guys who literally have to pay to be in their company to dictate how they carry out a session that are validating these "rules". They are letting clients train them on how to be the kind of escort that they want them to be, the kind that benefits the client mostly. Now if a woman has no problem performing a certain service or even enjoys it then thats great, build your brand off of that and make your money. I don't judge my sisters in this business or begrudge them for what they do. I just want us to be the bosses and the ones who are in control. If she's adhering to guidelines set by a hobbyist, on what to offer and how to charge then I am saying she has to share the blame for things being so drastically different, and they are, anyone who did this work before the dawn of the internet escort will tell u that. I for one chose this path because of the major earning potential and secondly because it felt liberating to take my sexuality in my own hands and do what I wanted with it, not what some customer whose internet handle is catdaddy1969 told me to do with it.
AMEN - I never seem to have the ability to express what is in my head when I write but I think you did a nice job of explaining some of the changes the reviews boards have caused. It sounds stupid but I still remember exactly the moment when I first heard the name bigdoggie - I went to my computer and felt this really nauseous feeling inside as i looked over the site - I knew then that it was bad news for us - it took 10 years for it to really get a hold but it brought us to where we are today -- many of the ladies here are younger and don't have any other experience to reference from except the way it is today - it is not better - just my 2 cents
edited - i think your my new bff -lol
dixievista
10-12-2012, 10:57 PM
If we want to be taken seriously as "businesswomen" and call this a legitimate "job" then we need to accept competition and fair market circumstances. That's all I'm going to say.
Nikki_Fox
10-12-2012, 11:43 PM
The damage is done (to the industry) and I certainly am not trying to disparage anyone who is working now - we are all dealing with the cards we are being dealt - that is not a fair statement to say that you are not being taken seriously or a business woman because you came from a time in this industry when things were more in favor of the women who worked in it than where we are now and the hobbiest have us hostage --- I guess you just had to be there ........
edited -- I agree we all have to deal with the current situation - I honestly don't see that there is an answer to the new / review enviroment -- maybe the next generation of ladies will figure out a way to turn the tables back - in the meantime let us old dogs ( not literally) have our glory days without taking it personal :)
wake&cake
10-12-2012, 11:51 PM
If we want to be taken seriously as "businesswomen" and call this a legitimate "job" then we need to accept competition and fair market circumstances. That's all I'm going to say.
Lmao! Ok for one we are not property we are humans :D But lets explore this... reviews and a rating system where a girl who sucks dicks with no condoms or takes it up the ass for the lowest common denominator is rated higher than a high end girl who doesnt isnt based on fair market value, its based on intrinsic value. And since what I offer and what another girl offers in a session might be vastly different we cannot be equally judged nor compared. Review boards judge escorts based on intrinsic value, the wants and preferences of the reviewers and do not take into account the money, passion and effort that the individual independent puts into her work. Because no matter how passionate or into a session i might get, if I am seeing a hobbyist who needs to cum in my eye to feel like it was worth it then he's not going to judge me fairly no matter how good I was! And putting value on a human experience is highly subjective, what a typical client of mine and a typical client in the ter world may consider to be a high value experience are going to differ.
wake&cake
10-13-2012, 12:04 AM
AMEN - I never seem to have the ability to express what is in my head when I write but I think you did a nice job of explaining some of the changes the reviews boards have caused. It sounds stupid but I still remember exactly the moment when I first heard the name bigdoggie - I went to my computer and felt this really nauseous feeling inside as i looked over the site - I knew then that it was bad news for us - it took 10 years for it to really get a hold but it brought us to where we are today -- many of the ladies here are younger and don't have any other experience to reference from except the way it is today - it is not better - just my 2 cents
edited - i think your my new bff -lol
Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say, never my intention to ruffle feathers, simply giving my opinion. You never know how you are going to be received when you just randomly pop up into a discussion like this one but it's one of the few subjects I can speak intelligently on! I remember discovering big doggie as well, it seemed like a joke!! I was like wow how cheesy, now it's the norm.
BlkSharpie
10-13-2012, 12:07 AM
Here are some links that you might want to take a look at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMEj2lirPPc&feature=related. That's one and here is another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ-79Kv_QWQ
These should give you a realistic idea of what goes on in the world of escorting and no, I'm not in law enforcement. I wouldn't waste my time writing all this if I was. Wake&cake, I love what you had to write. I remember those days before the internet and ter.
I have a realistic idea of what goes on in the world of escorting.. Unless you are going to tell me I have a warped idea of what it is Im doing for a living?
I realize that my experience is not like everyone elses. But on that same thread, I do not believe that anyone elses experience is indicative of what the entire "world of escorting" consists of.
I do think the question, where did you get your statistics from, is a valid one.
You say "over 80%" of escorts are controlled by pimps and "like 2%" are independent escorts.
What are the other give or take 18% of escorts considered to be?
I am genuinely interested in reading where these numbers come from and who conducted the study...
Nikki_Fox
10-13-2012, 12:22 AM
I agree with some of what sexy had to say -- but I think the numbers are wrong - I think what she is saying is valid for the people in the pimp mentality but i believe hooking is way more mainstream than before and liberated women today use it as an financial opportunity - women who years ago would have never dreamed of it -- someone made the comment that it should be legal - I feel if it is made legal then more ladies will enter the market - even more fodder for the hobbist and the prices will really plummet - on that note I am going to bed - hopefully this thread doesn't blow up and someone ends up banned -- everyone play nice - goodnight ladies
BlkSharpie
10-13-2012, 12:36 AM
I realize Im a newcomer into escorting, only at it for over a year. Though I can say I have been in different aspects of the adult industry for 11 years, and I have seen every portion of it Ive had my hands in evolve due to the internet...all in a downward spiral so I know that this is no different.
The thing is...we can never go back to what things were like before. Thats just not going to happen.
What I do know though, is that while there are a lot of women who undersell themselves, there are just as many who refuse to. We dont all, nor do the majority of us have pimps, drug habits to support, or mental illness. Many of us are independents who know we have total control to run our business the way we want to, and demand what we feel we are worth no matter what anyone else is doing.
To be honest, I could care less about hobbyists, and I have the feeling they could care less about me too...goodness knows the amount of reviews I have, even though I allow it, reflect that. I read a blog post recently (darned it, I meant to save the link it was so good too) about the difference between a hobbyist and a client. The difference between a guy who sees this as a numbers game and sees us as objects to review like toaster ovens on Amazon.com, and the guy who simply wants to find someone to have a nice time with and doesnt consider us or what hes doing as a hobby that hes going to devote his life to in message boards.
I prefer, and mostly see the latter. But then, I myself dont live on the hobbyist boards either...I pop in and out of discussions, and true to being me, Ill disappear for a month or two at a time. But this is a business to me, and it doesnt define me, and its not my whole world. Maybe thats why I attract guys who have the same attitude towards this, I dont know...but I just dont get emotionally wrapped up in and involved.
Personally, I put my focus on doing what I can to conduct my business with how the business is now. Im sure that things will continue to change and evolve, and I am all for doing my part to keep things on level, but it would be unrealistic of me to even wish that reviews boards and hobbyists would disappear off the earth. Thats not going to happen... Just like with the other aspects of the business Ive been in..I will continue to do this until the time comes when things reach a point where I no longer feel like I can get what I want out of it, or something else crosses my path / mind to do that will be more beneficial to me.
I will say though, if someone really hates review boards and all that comes with advertising oneself online, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going old school and doing things completely offline. Its not as common anymore because the internet makes it so much easier to connect with others, but there *are* women who still only meet guys in person at hotels, or make connections with people in the hospitality industry, bartenders, limo drivers, concierge, etc and through personal referrals.
Now I dont know how big the market is for that because its something I have never done and really don't want to because Im fine with advertising on the internet, but for those who prefer the way things were without all the stuff that comes with it....that aspect of the business is still there. Being under the radar is not a dead concept.
We have control over how we run our business and what we do...no one *has* go go online to be an escort, no one *has* to be at the mercy of the way the business as evolved in the online world.
BlkSharpie
10-13-2012, 12:53 AM
I agree with some of what sexy had to say -- but I think the numbers are wrong - I think what she is saying is valid for the people in the pimp mentality but i believe hooking is way more mainstream than before and liberated women today use it as an financial opportunity - women who years ago would have never dreamed of it -- someone made the comment that it should be legal - I feel if it is made legal then more ladies will enter the market - even more fodder for the hobbist and the prices will really plummet - on that note I am going to bed - hopefully this thread doesn't blow up and someone ends up banned -- everyone play nice - goodnight ladies
I totally agree with this. I can say I am one of those women...without the internet, I doubt I would have ever considered escorting. Before I even knew of this aspect (which I can say, I only really noticed and became aware of maybe 3 or 4 years ago) my idea of escorting was either street walkers, or LV brothels, or women working with high class agencies who lived in NYC penthouse apartments traveling the globe and making thousands per hour. I have NO idea where I got that from :D Its just what I thought. Never occurred to me there was much of anything inbetween.
But yup...the internet opened up a venue that afforded a lot of women to realize they could do this on their own, without a pimp, brothel or agency. They could place their own ads, connect with other women, get tips and advice and learn what they needed to to do this. I am sure of it that there are thousands upon thousands of women who are escorts that never would have made the leap if it wasnt for this avenue and the ability to do it on their own.
With all the crappy stuff that comes with how the industry has evolved, I do have to say that is something really good about it. The grand majority of women I am in contact with are much like me...single moms who dont want to be in porn or stripping, have done cam and got nervous because the money was getting slower, who got fed up one day and said screw this Im going to get a sugardaddy, then snapped out of it and realized escorting was and even more stable and independent option.
Its *incredibly* sickening that pimps also saw and are taking advantage of this avenue...moving their operation from the streets to online and expanding thier business so to speak. Ive even heard of pimps writing to and harassing a provider planning a visit to his city on tour, as if shes were working his corner or something. Its stupid sick that whole aspect, but that aspect is not the only one that exists.
Something else to keep in mind though, is that the guys who are looking for a woman in the $250/hr+ range, is not interested in the girl being pimped out in the $150/- range. Heck, when I started out and was $200, I had some guys telling me I should really consider raising my rate because they almost didnt see me based on how low my rate was. Im jsut not worried about how someone charging less than me affects my business, or how someone charging more than me affects my business...because they dont. The same way that someone who sees girls who charge less (hobbyists who have to count their $$$ cause they have to write like 10 reviews a month!) dont affect my business. Im not seeing those guys anyway...and the few times I have, its cause they had to save up or make the sacrifice to see a couple less girls to be able to see me. Im not even that expensive... Im very sure girls with even high rates than mine deal with guys on a whole other level that I could only imagine and reviews arent even on their radar.
Lovelyme
10-13-2012, 01:03 AM
I have a realistic idea of what goes on in the world of escorting.. Unless you are going to tell me I have a warped idea of what it is Im doing for a living?
I realize that my experience is not like everyone elses. But on that same thread, I do not believe that anyone elses experience is indicative of what the entire "world of escorting" consists of.
I do think the question, where did you get your statistics from, is a valid one.
You say "over 80%" of escorts are controlled by pimps and "like 2%" are independent escorts.
What are the other give or take 18% of escorts considered to be?
I am genuinely interested in reading where these numbers come from and who conducted the study...
To Nicole and Nikki: That's why I called bullshit. Exactly what I'm saying. If we're going to start posting stats, let's have links to back them up. I seriously think some people just make up shit to make themselves feel better. You ladies have wayy more patience for this stuff than I do.
Honestly though, I'm sick of hearing about how fucked up the industry is. One person has a bad experience and then wants to come here and spit their venom. If the industry is so fucked up, why continue to be in it? There are other jobs besides escorting in the adult industry.
sexymadness
10-13-2012, 02:06 AM
To Nicole and Nikki: That's why I called bullshit. Exactly what I'm saying. If we're going to start posting stats, let's have links to back them up. I seriously think some people just make up shit to make themselves feel better. You ladies have wayy more patience for this stuff than I do.
Honestly though, I'm sick of hearing about how fucked up the industry is. One person has a bad experience and then wants to come here and spit their venom. If the industry is so fucked up, why continue to be in it? There are other jobs besides escorting in the adult industry.
Here are some sites that back up what I'm saying about 80% or more being pimp controlled. Here's another one. And another
. But, hey I suppose all these people are lying and it's a big conspiracy.
BlkSharpie
10-13-2012, 02:37 AM
Here are some sites that back up what I'm saying about 80% or more being pimp controlled. http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=18544&department=BLI&categoryid=pornography
"The prostituted women, according to the pro-side debaters, are “primarily” mothers trying to support their children. (This, of course, is not supported by the facts, with 80 percent of prostituted women in Amsterdam reporting that they were there by force, over 60 percent in Germany being foreigners, and 80 percent in Spain being coerced by gangs). "
Okay, I do not know anything about prostitution outside of America..I will give you that.
Here's another one. http://www.rapeis.org/activism/prostitution/prostitutionfacts.html
They state that their facts are from 1982-1994. That would be 18 to 30 years ago. Are there more current studies from within the past two decades to refer to?
And another http://books.google.com/books?id=3gP3GzeQ66EC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=80+percent+of+escorting+being+pimp+controlled&source=bl&ots=8xsgqW4b8C&sig=gA_mrLX5ca79viKPcIXF1Mejdbk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KSN5UOfdMKzXiALBwIBQ&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=80%20percent%20of%20escorting%20being%20pimp%20c ontrolled&f=false
This is a book on the account of one womans personal story, set in the '70s...
http://cardvservices.org/sextrafficking.php
Simply stating "studies indicate" is not a study...they do not state where they get thier numbers from either...
But, hey I suppose all these people are lying and it's a big conspiracy.
No one said you were lying....just curious where you got your numbers from.
Doing a quick google search for "80 percent of escorting being pimp controlled" (yes, I saw that you did that :D) to try and find info online to support what you said doesnt really help clarify things.
You confidently announced the statistics on the current state of the industry, so it really shouldnt be that big a deal and something to get defensive and secretive about instead of just sharing where you came across that info so that we can all educate ourselves.
BlkSharpie
10-13-2012, 02:47 AM
BTW Madness...just have to say, Im not going to go in circles over this.
For one, if you choose to believe that 98% of escorts are controlled by pimps, only 2% are independents and the rest of us are just lying about our status, then okay...Im not going to lose sleep over what you think of escorts. No more than I lose sleep over the guys in forums assuming all escorts are desperate and supporting a drug habit.
For two, this whole subject isnt remotely close to the topic of this thread.
So on that merry note...
/hijack
sexymadness
10-13-2012, 02:58 AM
So, what about the two videos of the escort industry that I posted before that. Are they bullshit, too? Also, where do you get that I did a google search for 80%......
I suppose that prostitutionresearch.com is all bullshit, too.
Lovelyme
10-13-2012, 06:52 AM
So, what about the two videos of the escort industry that I posted before that. Are they bullshit, too? Also, where do you get that I did a google search for 80%......
I suppose that prostitutionresearch.com is all bullshit, too.
Your posts are an insult to the ladies here that are independent escorts. I have been an independent escort for 3 1/2 years. I DID work for an agency when I first started (for 6 months) but it wasn't a pimp like organization. When I worked for the agency, I made my own "drops", drove myself to the appointments and only saw the owner once (the owner was a woman). I became an independent after I realized hey I can do all this myself and keep most of my own money. The rest was history.
As someone that has many contacts in the industry, as someone that has screened for other ladies in the business and currently still helps ladies in the business - I can tell you that your research is inacurate. I don't care what website you come up with because even you don't know who is behind these websites. I have seen prostitution documentaries where people have said like you said that 80 to 90% of the escorts are pimped or trafficked and you know wanna know who those people were ? Law enforcement and escort in the low end of the spectrum (bp girls (not bp advertisers) and street walkers. Law enforcement is clueless when it comes to the business of an independent escort. They see things their way and that's it. Look at all the documentaries that are out there about prostitution/escorts, how many of them are saying good things? None. According to all those documentaries, we're all pimped out and drugged out misguided women that are being forced to sell our bodies.
I personally find it amazing that people that have never worked as an escort can come up with these bizzare stories and theories. If not for ladies like Nicolette Morgandy, Kristin Anderson, Amanda brooks, I would have never become an escort because of the way the media potrays prostitution.
Madness, after your first post here on sw , I am not surprised at your posts. Your posts are typical for someone is angry and feels trapped. However, Please keep in mind that you are in the presence of ladies that are here by choice, independent women that love their job and want to be here. I have real life friends here on stripperweb and on escorts boards that I've actually met in person. They are strong women that are in total control of their lives which is why I'm so proud of them and proud to do what I do. I'm not a victim of the industry. I've had a wonderful experience from day one being in the business. I think it was Daniella that said you were on the other end of the spectrum. She was right. While you make some great points and I'm glad you decided to join the website and share your experience , your stats are still false. And btw we weren't talking about prostitution outside of America.. were we? We are all in America so I don't know why that matters but anyways....
----- End hijack.
The review boards will always be there whether we like it or not. The best advice I can give anyone that is sick of their local board is to tour. To be honest, the boards haven't really bothered me that much. My main board was TER and I had like 14 posts there (ok maybe 20) but I never really got into the politics on TER because for one , it's my main board and two, you guys know how I am when I get worked up over something :)
These boards are pimp ran - no doubt about that. We can't beat them at their own game. They are too big. The best we can do is come up with other ways to work. There are ladies that do not allow reviews and do very well. I wouldn't recommend for one to distance themselves from the review boards unless they're sick of it and really want to but fact of the matter is that reviews bring damn good business (at least for me they have). My clock free dates, overnight appointment - all came from TER and Avenue-X reviewers. No way I'd drop those boards. And while reviews are degrading, I've never felt degraded by them. I have seen other ladies get dissed big time on reviews and I've gotten pissed at guys for exaggerating my reviews but I have come to realize that the guys that do that , don't write the reviews for us. They write it for themselves.
I like this article by Jenny Demilo on review board guys . It's a really good read.
wake&cake
10-13-2012, 09:01 AM
Sexymadness i would venture to say that this just isnt the business for you hun. I read your other thread and i am soooo sorry for what you endured as a child, it was not your fault. You are God's beautiful creation, you are worthy of love and so much more. I have seen the ugly side of escorting as you have, but realize that no one can make you feel what u dont already feel about yourself. This business is not for the delicate soul, it can be grimy and brutal. its not for a girl who wont stand up for herself and make her own rules simply because we are women dealing with men and a man will always want the upper hand. You have to be a woman and know where u stand. i have seen chicks go from the girl next door to suicidal, empty shells of people just trying to find themselves, and they didnt go through half of the fucked up shit that i did, yet im still escorting and loving it. Whats the difference? I am built for this... People who are drawn to controlling personalities are NOT built for this. people with histories of abuse that made them despise all authority figures are NOT built for this! but You can learn something from every negative experience. I look at my street experience as invaluable, i learned things and developed good practices that will stick with me for life. Doesnt mean that there werent bad times too, it just means i choose to take away whats positive. A man who is paying you for sex is not responsible for your self esteem baby. He may not even have any of his own! You are looking for acceptance in the absolute worst place. And i do think its unfair for you to put agency owners and pimps in the same category. i loved my agency, i booked my own calls, charged whatever i wanted and only had to give 100 bucks off of whatever i was charging which was usually 400 for a body rub. When clients would call and complain that i wouldnt have sex with them or whatever they were mad about my agency took my side everytime. I can remember very accurately my boss telling me megan u do whatever the fuck u feel comfortable doing no one is going to force you to do something u arent comfortable with. And they never tried to.i loved the people i worked for and they respected and loved me. Good businesses treat their employees well, im sorry that wasn't your experience but just know that it can be different and is different for a vast number of us. i would never negate your experience as i know it is as valid and common as mine, however trying to convince a bunch of women who like what they do and accentuate whats positive abt it that they are brainwashed victims is not going to gain you much sympathy. and im gonna need u to produce american statistics you cannot possibly base your opinion of the sex industry on whats going on on other continents.
Nikki_Fox
10-13-2012, 09:34 AM
^^^ awesome responses - sexy was just stating things from her frame of reference even though her stats were questionable - sexy and others like her need to see that it is not like that for everyone - kindness to our sister workers ( at whatever level ) is a wonderful thing
BlkSharpie
10-13-2012, 01:27 PM
Kindness to our sister workers goes both ways though. I read Madness' post and while I can sympathize with her history, it does not move me to think that is everyones story and the majority of escorts got into or are in the business for the same reasons.
If I were to tell you all what Ive been through, you would wonder wtf Im so upbeat and positive all the time. For the longest time, from around 6 to my mid 20's I was convinced I was not meant for this world. That the things that happened to me was Gods way of saying he made a mistake. But all the same, I never took it upon myself to be the authority on what its like to be "xyz" in "xyz" situation and try to convince people that what happened to me is happening to everyone else. The world is bigger than me, or you..or anyone and it revolves around no one.
I have my moments where I wallow in self pity, but I HATE HATE HATE being a victim, refuse to get into the mindset that I am a victim of my circumstances, and I dont tell people what Ive been through because I dont get anything out of the reaction, it doesnt make me feel good to have people feel sorry for me. If I ever do decide to share what Ive been through, it will be as inspiration to help someone else know that Ive been where they are and they have just as much control over where they take their life as I did. It will *not* be to drag people down and try to convince them that the world is shit and my bad experiences are all there really is.
She keeps saying "you still think Im lying, you still think Im bullshitting" No one said shes lying or bullshitting. Im not discounting that *her* experience actually happened. But I do take issue with, that because she experienced something, hers is the real world and it doesnt matter what anyone elses' experience is.
This is not a competition of who has it the roughest. This is a matter of taking control. If youre forced into a lifestyle you dont want to be in, *take control of your life* and get out of it. We dont all always see it that way, esp when youre deep in, but fact is, women are crazy strong and have proven throughout time to be able to go against seemingly insurmountable odds.
We have some amazing, savvy, sharp business women on this board who are sassy, witty, open-minded, intelligent, positive, *independent* and want to get everything they can out of this business to improve their lives and be happy. We are our own proof that the statistics anti-porn and human-trafficking campaigns put out there are skewed.
Trying to convince us that is not the "real world" and is an offense to those who are doing it, to those who are trying to do it, and very dissuasive and counter-productive to those who are in crappy situations and want to do it.
Defeatist attitudes get no one anywhere.
ETA: Im not going to say anything else on this whole subject because it does make me upset. And I dont like being upset. I would rather focus on doing my part to improve my life. I would rather share and give back whatever knowledge I have to uplift and empower other ladies to be independent and take control and handle their business. I dont know everything and Im not anywhere near the top of my game, but Im not at the bottom either and will always share whatever I can if a lady reaches out to me needing advise or inspiration, the very same way others have inspired me.
Nikki_Fox
10-14-2012, 03:41 AM
I totally appreciate everything that you said Sharpie ( and others )- and this is no disrespect to your point of view or your experiences -
while her post may not sit well with many on this forum - and does not fit your personal experience - some of what she has said is accurate - just because that has not been your experience or the experience of the ladies currently posting on this forum does not mean that there are not many ladies out there who are or who came from these types of situations - it is not accurate to paint all sex workers with the same brush -- either as victims or business women - this industry is a melting pot of both --who is the majority or minority ?? who knows - it can be a godsend for some and a curse for others - most ladies here have worked by themselves or done short stints with an agency -- working independent in some ways isolates you from intimate contact with other workers -- I do not identify with sexy's experiences but I have seen MANY girls like her over the years - it is very easy on the outside to say " take control' " don't be a victim "but some of these ladies are so broken that it is easier said than done - I have worked with girls whose parent tricked them out at 13/14 - a girl who grew up living in a shitty crack hotel for 7 years - how damaging is that to get picked up by the school bus let alone what her home ( used loosely ) life was like etc etc etc........ some people just don't recover and move past these situations - it is a blessing to be at peace with your decision to be a sex worker but not all ladies have the ability to get there - - her and others like her ARE a part of our profession - when I read her post I was not insulted I felt compassion for a person struggling to find her way - hopefully she will find enough positive here to help her on her journey
Lovelyme
10-14-2012, 06:51 AM
I'll break it down like this Nikki
I totally appreciate everything that you said Sharpie ( and others )- and this is no disrespect to your point of view or your experiences -
while her post may not sit well with many on this forum - and does not fit your personal experience - some of what she has said is accurate - just because that has not been your experience or the experience of the ladies currently posting on this forum does not mean that there are not many ladies out there who are or who came from these types of situations - it is not accurate to paint all sex workers with the same brush -- either as victims or business women - this industry is a melting pot of both --who is the majority or minority ??
Exactly. Let me tell you. I came in contact with a pimped girl before. I didn't know she was being pimped until she told me. She contacted me directly asking me to build a website for her through eccie.net. When I finished building her website, she started telling me about her pimp and how they were living from motel to motel - Amazing. I was so shocked I blogged about it on my website (with her permission) and immediately took the post down out of fear that her pimp would somehow find it and come after me. I KNOW for a fact that every escort out there isn't independent. If i had not came across that girl, I would still be naive about the world of pimps. I found myself wanting to "save" this girl, wanting to send her money to help her get out of a fucked up situation but one thing I quickly realized was that pimped girls have a totally diffferent mentality that the ladies that work as independents. Ontop of that, all my girlfriends were like Hell no leave her alone.
As far as majority and minority .. who cares? I know for a fact that everyone CANNOT be an independent escort. Everyone can't do what an independent escort does. It takes a very very special person to not need an agency or an assistance service of some sort. It's A LOT of work but I love it. I love everything about posting ads, building a website, creating a persona (how many personas have I created? LOL!), meeting the client, going to the bank to deposit my own money. It's all so much fun to me - but that's me - not everyone else. Yes I get it.
People get into escorting for their own reasons. I got into it because I needed more money than I was making as a camgirl - period. I did not come from a broken home, I don't smoke anything - or even cigarettes, I don't have a drinking or shopping addiction. I just wanted a better life for me and my daughter and that's what we have. However, with the money came power. This invincible feeling. I cannot and will probably never relate to the girl that feels trapped in this business. Escorting has been a Godsent venture for me and I think BlkShapie can agree with me on that statement. I can't stand these groups that come in and put us all in one bubble because we're all so so sooo different. Escorting is really what you make of it. If you want to be a backpage girl, you can. If you have enough sense, you will grow to learn how to market yourself, charge more and build a better clientele. I remember when Sharpie was new to the business and I would tell her about all my cool trips, overnights and clock free dates and she was like oooh wooow I have to do this. The next thing you know, she starts escorting and goes off to mexico with some client and then sweden and I remember being so proud of her and excited at the same time. It's so nice to see someone else doing well and taking control of their life and not playing the victim card.
who knows - it can be a godsend for some and a curse for others - most ladies here have worked by themselves or done short stints with an agency -- working independent in some ways isolates you from intimate contact with other workers --
Whoa.. this depends on what agency it was. I was an agency girl and I NEVER had intimate contact with other workers. We weren't allowed to see each other (the girls weren't). It was a very tight operation and to be honest with you - I liked that. Girls can bring way too much drama. My social outlet has been stripperweb and other forums. God knows I still don't have any friends were I live - sucks but oh well.
I do not identify with sexy's experiences but I have seen MANY girls like her over the years - it is very easy on the outside to say " take control' " don't be a victim "but some of these ladies are so broken that it is easier said than done - I have worked with girls whose parent tricked them out at 13/14 - a girl who grew up living in a shitty crack hotel for 7 years - how damaging is that to get picked up by the school bus let alone what her home ( used loosely ) life was like etc etc etc........ some people just don't recover and move past these situations - it is a blessing to be at peace with your decision to be a sex worker but not all ladies have the ability to get there - - her and others like her ARE a part of our profession - when I read her post I was not insulted I felt compassion for a person struggling to find her way - hopefully she will find enough positive here to help her on her journey
I came across one girl that reminded me of sexymadness and that's the pimped girl I told you about. However, it's funny the independent escorts I told about her told me not to help her so I left her alone. I quickly found it was looked down on for a "high end escort" to associate themselves with a streetwalker or a pimped girl. I've been helping people for a long time and something I'll tell you right now is everyone cannot be helped. Some people have their way of thinking and dont' want to see the other side. You can tell from madness's post that she has her own way of thinking and to her, there's no other way. People like that should find a way to help themselves. My advice to her would be to get out of the business and find something else that she truly enjoys doing and to not let the business chew her up and spit her out.
BlkSharpie
10-14-2012, 11:09 AM
I totally appreciate everything that you said Sharpie ( and others )- and this is no disrespect to your point of view or your experiences -
while her post may not sit well with many on this forum - and does not fit your personal experience - some of what she has said is accurate - just because that has not been your experience or the experience of the ladies currently posting on this forum does not mean that there are not many ladies out there who are or who came from these types of situations - it is not accurate to paint all sex workers with the same brush -- either as victims or business women - this industry is a melting pot of both --who is the majority or minority ??
I completely agree and that is exactly the point I was trying to make. Its just not right to insist that 98% of women are exactly like "xyz" based off personal experience. Like I said, the world revolves around no one. There isnt one person who sets the standard for what the majority is.
who knows - it can be a godsend for some and a curse for others - most ladies here have worked by themselves or done short stints with an agency -- working independent in some ways isolates you from intimate contact with other workers -- I do not identify with sexy's experiences but I have seen MANY girls like her over the years - it is very easy on the outside to say " take control' " don't be a victim "but some of these ladies are so broken that it is easier said than done
Im not standing from the outside in easily saying things. I dont have to bring up an example of something that happened to someone I happened to have a conversation with. I know first hand what its like. I have my moments of course, but I refuse to lay down and take it. I refuse to believe that my world is the only world there is. Instead, I hang on like hell to the idea that my world is what I make of it. I *choose* to rise up over my experiences, not become a prisoner of them.
I know how I come off, not only on the boards but in my personal life with the people who know me, yeah Im cheerful and upbeat and have a pollyanna complex so its hard to imagine I would have any idea what its like to go through anything. Im pretty used to being dismissed because people assume I wouldnt understand, but Im not going to cut myself open to prove myself. Just because I dont tell everyone my life story doesnt mean I dont have one to tell. I just dont want anyone looking at or treating me like a victim. I dont need the reminder of where I came from, Im trying too hard to focus on where Im going and dont want the distraction.
I have worked with girls whose parent tricked them out at 13/14 - a girl who grew up living in a shitty crack hotel for 7 years - how damaging is that to get picked up by the school bus let alone what her home ( used loosely ) life was like etc etc etc........ some people just don't recover and move past these situations - it is a blessing to be at peace with your decision to be a sex worker but not all ladies have the ability to get there - - her and others like her ARE a part of our profession - when I read her post I was not insulted I felt compassion for a person struggling to find her way - hopefully she will find enough positive here to help her on her journey
And that is what Im trying to do. Enforce that being positive, enforce that others have been where she is and pulled through, enforce that trying to find all sorts of studies and claims to back up her point are useless. What is of use is being proactive and *doing* something to change your outlook, change your perception, change your life. Because its is possible...
I realize that my personality has a lot to do with it, if I were even a smidgen less determined, Id hate to think where I would be in life right now. As it stands, it still makes me feel weird to hear anyone say they are proud of me. It affects me in such a major way, because I still have a super hard time with letting go of the idea that I am nothing to be proud of. I still have *a long* way to go, but I have come *a long* way too and super curious how much further I can go so giving up is not an option. Im not special....what Ive managed to do so far, anyone else can do. On the flip, I look at others who are successful, happy, living the life I wish I had and know they are not special either...what they have I can have too.
ETA: Sorry...I had to edit out a lot of things I said in here because already its dragging me down and has my mind in a place I dont want it going to. I hate talking about my experiences and I hate having to share it to prove myself. Suffice it to say...simply put, Im not just saying what I am out of theory or heresay. Ive actually been there. I myself am broken. But not Im so broken that theres no hope for me. No one is.
dixievista
10-16-2012, 01:12 AM
@wake&cake
Where did I say anything about being property??? The guys tend to view us as girls they do a favor to, handing over a bit of cash for some fun, but if we want to be taken seriously as businesswomen running a business, we have to ACT LIKE IT - and bitching about the state of affairs is just bad business, embrace the climate or quit, don't stick your head in the sand.
For somebody brand new to this board & modern day escorting, you sure do see to have a lot of opinions about how things work. The industry has changed. The girls who make the most money (the High Dollar Hotties if you will) charging around $1k/hr + do EVERYTHING. So yes that mean she "sucks dicks with no condoms or takes it up the ass" but for the HIGHEST price point, and she is good, because she like it - this is thanks to women's sexual liberation. The TER system works full spectrum, from your BP girl who does nearly everything for a hundred or so, to the top of the line girl, and everyone else falls in between.
All that to say, the guys don't really even look at the scores for performance, more for appearance, and even then they know that it's subjective, so it's about what's written more than anything else. TER works if you work it. If you aren't willing to do what other girls are, then accept that you simply aren't as sexual as others and move on! If you want a higher performance score, figure out how to be what they want!! This is a business, your appearance and performance are your product, if you can't keep up and improve, that's your fault not the fault of the review board or the client. This is mostly a sex business, companionship is secondary and if you don't realize that then you are in complete denial.
I'm done with this thread.
dixievista
10-16-2012, 01:13 AM
repeat, delete
sexymadness
10-17-2012, 11:44 AM
I'm very hesitant to respond to any of these posts anymore, because it is going in one ear and out the other. You stepped into the world of prostitution or escorting as you like to call it. Now, you're complaining because review boards are telling you what you can and can't do with your body and for how much you can charge. So, as soon as I come along and explain why what's happening is happening, you guys try to sit there and argue with me. No matter how much evidence I or anyone else tries to present to you, you argue. How many people have probably told you not to go down this path and what can happen if you do? And now, you are facing one of the inevitable problems that come with an illegit profession. And I reckon that this is what you've done your entire life with anyone who tries to help you or give you advice which is why you are in the situation you are in. You claim that you are an independent business woman, but you complain about having to answer to a bunch of perverts on review boards. As soon as I say that there are other ways to make money without having to rely on review boards, I get slammed.
I think it's funny the way some of you guys think you are above other hookers out there just because you charge more. I'm sorry to tell you this, but sucking dick is sucking dick. Who cares how much you can get for it? You are no better than the street walkers who turn tricks for $50 a pop. But, it's ok, you keep telling yourself that you're better and could never end up there if it helps you sleep at night. But please, when someone tries to give you advice or explain things to you and you don't want to listen, then don't complain about the inevitable consequences.
I have never sucked a dick without a condom on because I refuse to catch aids or herpes or anything else no matter how much money someone is willing to give me. I have never taken it up the ass, and I've been paid way over $1000. It's all in how you work it. I have to advertise a lot more, market myself a lot and sell my ass off to potential customers, but I get the money without having to answer to review boards. Don't let anyone treat you like property. It is your body and you make the rules and YOU decide how much you are going to charge. I've known of girls that have been able to pull $3000 out of clients and all they had to do was a hand job. I've also seen girls do everything in the book for $99. If you want to do that, go ahead, but then don't complain. It's funny, you guys will work in strip clubs where you get a VIP room where guys will spend thousands of dollars on you and you won't think anything of it. But, you'll sit there as an escort and put out for a few hundred bucks and claim that you have to because that's what the review boards and pimps tell you to do. Really?
And I'm not brand new to escorting, I've been doing it for 12 years. So maybe, just maybe, I might know what I'm talking about. If you want to continue to be subject to review boards and the losers that are on them, go ahead. If you like guys cumming in your mouth, taking it up the ass and letting guys cum on your face, etc., keep doing what your doing. But I don't get that many of you are into that hence the complaints. As long as you rely on someone else or something else (review boards) to secure your clients for you, you're going to pay a price for that whether it's having to kick back a large portion of your income to them or having to do services that you are uncomfortable with. There is no such thing as easy money, everything has a price. And I presume, you are starting to figure that out. OK, that's it, I'm done. It's like talking to an abused woman, no matter how many times you try to help them or give them advice, they go right back to him. I'm done beating my head against the wall. No more. I don't get paid as a counselor to you all. I'm out, buh bye. Have fun. Next time, you can complain about the next pimp who tries to run your business.
Lovelyme
10-17-2012, 01:34 PM
Delete. Won't even go there...
DaniellaOHC
10-17-2012, 05:55 PM
This could have been a really great, really helpful, super indepth thread.
The topic of review boards is very emotionally charged, but its actually a really relevant topic that is seriously affecting us all (for the better or for the worse). Its a relatively new beast I personally would like to closely examine with the ladies of SW.
This was supposed to be a place to do that.
But an anonymous instigator has single-handedly taken this thread to shit.
Can we please try to salvage this into something useful?
goddesskali
10-17-2012, 08:04 PM
For those of us who forgot what the topic was in the first place....
It seems to me that the escort reviews made by some men to critique a working woman perpetuate a patriarchal standard in which men assign women their value as property--in this case, shared property.
It bothers me! And I don't understand why providers put up with it!
The strip clubs (at least in my city--out of state, they seem less controlling) and the agencies seem to be glorified pimps, extracting the most they can from each girl. I'm sick of playing by a man's rules. I'm sick of a working for and thereby perpetuating a system of exploitation of women. I have this vision of working for myself and building a client base by providing the very best service possible. I do not want to keep cowering to Big Brother in the hopes that he will like me, that he won't destroy me...
I find it rather a bit disheartening to see that some men are still controlling this industry by controling the reputation of providers. It seems dysfunctional. I see the potential for abuse. Where is the site where we can post warnings about unsafe or offensive customers? Why are we--independent women--letting men regulate the world's oldest profession, one that is inherently ours? Are there providers who make successful careers without getting caught up in all of the review hype? Is there a way to manage reviews--on one's own website, for instance--instead of letting reviewers manage us?
I'm very interested in the perspectives other women may have about this. For example: maybe you are able to perceive websites like TER as a tool. If this is the case, please describe how you feel and think about having these reviews. If it is not the case, how do you resolve your feelings with this industry standard?
About me: I'm new as a provider, but not to this industry. I have just finished my first tour with an agency where I was told (not asked) to provide a service for a customer at a discount as he was a reviewer (my first). I passed inspection and was certified as a seven-points provider...Mother-fuckers. I'm calling my own shots from now on and will not be going back to that agency...And am back to having no reviews.