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JoeUnCool
08-31-2012, 09:37 PM
I'm trying to delete this. I shared too much info on something that is a private matter to me. Apologies for posting and then trying to delete.

rickdugan
09-01-2012, 12:03 PM
Joe, I think that you are giving me more credit than I deserve. Congrats on a great adventure! I am glad to see a post from you that describes how you enjoyed yourself rather than stating that "the end is nigh" because I (or someone else) enjoys spending time with a fave and pays her for sex. ;)

IMHO this is all just supposed to be good, not-so-clean fun. IME problems arise when customers forget what this is and start letting their emotions overrule their good sense. At best, this leads their favorite dancers to distancing themselves and, at worst, the girls with more guts and fewer moral convictions will take advantage of these guys in ways similar to what happened to you - or even worse. I have seen enough examples of what happens to PLs in love to last me a lifetime, including what happened to a very good friend of mine many years back when he came under the spell of a particularly gifted seductress.

And with that, I am actually going to engage in a little role reversal - LOL. I noticed that this was not a p4p gig. Hey, that is cool, but it also creates a little more uncertainty. Based upon your historical posts, I have the impression (right or wrong) that you may be prone to getting caught up in these sorts of things. If I were you, I would just keep one eye open towards maintaining personal boundaries and in determining what she wants from all of this. It may be that she is truly just looking for a fuck buddy, but she may also have other objectives in mind.

Anyway, just my two cents for whatever it may actually be worth and good luck!

JoeUnCool
09-01-2012, 06:04 PM
Rick, you bring up some good points. A few things:

I don't think I'd get involved in p4p. I've done p4p that has worked out well. I don't talk about it, but I've done it.
the pic of the fb's has been pretty helpful in keeping things in perspective. 6 pack abs and an anaconda means I'm the #3 horse in a 3 horse race and well back of the pack.
An unstated reason for not staying Wednesday night was that I want no emotional attachment.
I'm actively pursuing a girl at another club. She hasn't been discussed because there is nothing to discuss yet.
If someone asks the question "should I...." my response is based on stopping people that don't understand what they r getting into, which is most people. protecting yourself by not getting involved in what they don't understand. Notice that I didn't ask "should I" last week. Btw, what happened to me previously is way more complicated, it would take a lot of alcohol to pry it out of me.
interestingly, your get over it statements have been in the back of my mind. You are getting appropriate credit. :) My reasons for doing this will sound stupid, but players need coaches and motivators. You are a good motivator. Keep saying what u said before.
i may discuss points with everyone here, but understand that there is respect for the regular posters.
As more things happen I'll post about them

JoeUnCool
09-25-2012, 07:49 AM
Was in town for 2 weeks following Labor Day. Ended up spending a lot of time at her club with her. We would make plans and they would always fall through. I started to suspect I was being played again. On the final night I was there, I got a call about 2:30 am. We talked for about an hour. It seems like the family part of her mothers illness is worse than I thought. I offered advice as an outsider, but also made it clear that it wasn't my battle to fight and that she was on her own there(thanks Rick for reminding me).

Btw, I admit to owing her money, so I don't think she's tried to scam me yet. More info to come.

rickdugan
09-25-2012, 09:36 AM
Btw, I admit to owing her money, so I don't think she's tried to scam me yet. More info to come.

How did this happen? :O

Well, I suppose that owing a dancer money is probably a good way of working yourself out of OTC meetings with her, regardless of what her true intentions are.

JoeUnCool
09-25-2012, 06:22 PM
I deleted this due to sharing too much info. Apologies, but I put too much info on here regarding a private matter. Granted its an internet forum with anonymity, but after reflection, I shouldn't have shared any additional info.

rickdugan
09-25-2012, 07:23 PM
Joe, the fact that you had spent time with her more recently than the 2 weeks past Labor Day was kinda' relevant to the story. Your previous post made it seem as if she had been blowing you off.


Rick mentions the money owed. Two things that come up:

The last time I was in her club, she was pretty quick for us to go to the VIP. She turned 2 guys down for VIP right before I got there, I told her I didn't have all the money for it, but she said she didn't care. I felt a weebit uncomfortable about it, but she insisted.
Admittedly, not my best move, but I owe her for "the morning after" pill. Yeah, I know, this was a poor move on my part, irresponsible, and not taking her situation into account. She told me not to worry about it, but I fucked it up and owe. :(
We'll see how things go over the next few days. I think I am here for a while with my customer in downtown.

And you STILL owe her money, even though your debts were incurred during the two weeks after Labor Day and you've seen her since? LOL.

And yes, it kinda sucks when you have to throw in another $40 to cover the Plan B surcharge. ;)

In any event, good luck with all of this.

JoeUnCool
09-26-2012, 03:24 AM
This is the final post from me on this subject. The bottom line is that I have gotten back up on the horse. I don't quite understand how this got started but don't need to spread around something like this any more than I already have. Thanks for the input Rick, Yoda, CP, and many others. The perspective of others is helpful at times. :)

JoeUnCool
10-31-2012, 07:49 PM
Ok, final final post on this. And I really mean it this time. And I won't delete it due to posting too much possibly identifying info. And I really mean it this time. :O

Was working a ton of hours for a client each day, spent multiple 16 hour days driving around South Georgia working for a client, when not on the road, was working 14 hour days, got hurt, was staying at a friends house in the north Georgia area and stuck listening to him and his wife scream at each other thru the walls. Basically, I was busting my ass, making tons of progress, was completely over worked, and got to a breaking point.

It was in this scenario that the fb ups the number of promises. She was making promises every day, leaving me text messages and voice mails about wanting to get together that night, and each night, not responding to my vms and texts. Over the course of the final week, I was getting promises fast and furious; let's meet before her shift, after shift, during her shift. I was too tired to go while she was working and she never replied to my replies about before or after her shifts. Since I'm writing this, she obviously never delivered. i felt like I was getting pulled in several different directions at the same time. Funny how a lack of sleep causes this. I finally got mad at her and over the course of about 24 hours got mad a few times. Don't worry, I don't yell and scream into voice mails. I just talk down to people when I get upset.

in the hopes of documenting what I learned out of this, I thought I would list some of the items

Women have all the pussy, and all the control.
Women can get dick at any time. Men can't get free nsa pussy easily.
remember the first two items before getting mad at a women that occasionally does give u free pussy.
I owe her some money. I've never fucked with a dancer's money before and don't plan on starting to now. I'll get it to her. (original post sounded too flip).
I was the loser here, I didn't remember the situation.
Anyway, that's what happened. Next time, I'll keep my mouth shut.

ps. I'll probably delete this in a few days.

ChefKitty
10-31-2012, 08:34 PM
Ok, final final post on this. And I really mean it this time. And I won't delete it due to posting too much possibly identifying info. And I really mean it this time. :O

Was working a ton of hours for a client each day, spent multiple 16 hour days driving around South Georgia working for a client, when not on the road, was working 14 hour days, got hurt, was staying at a friends house in the north Georgia area and stuck listening to him and his wife scream at each other thru the walls. Basically, I was busting my ass, making tons of progress, was completely over worked, and got to a breaking point.

It was in this scenario that the fb ups the number of promises. She was making promises every day, leaving me text messages and voice mails about wanting to get together that night, and each night, not responding to my vms and texts. Over the course of the final week, I was getting promises fast and furious; let's meet before her shift, after shift, during her shift. I was too tired to go while she was working and she never replied to my replies about before or after her shifts. Since I'm writing this, she obviously never delivered. i felt like I was getting pulled in several different directions at the same time. Funny how a lack of sleep causes this. I finally got mad at her and over the course of about 24 hours got mad a few times. Don't worry, I don't yell and scream into voice mails. I just talk down to people when I get upset.

in the hopes of documenting what I learned out of this, I thought I would list some of the items

Women have all the pussy, and all the control.
Women can get dick at any time. Men can't get free nsa pussy easily.
remember the first two items before getting mad at a women that occasionally does give u free pussy.
it is a somewhat good feeling walking out knowing that u owe a dancer $600.
I was the loser here, I didn't remember the situation.
Anyway, that's what happened. Next time, I'll keep my mouth shut.

ps. I'll probably delete this in a few days.

How on earth does it feel good owing a dancer money? Money that she worked hard for, regardless of how you feel about her, do you somehow think you're getting "revenge" by stiffing her out of her money?
Good lord. Customers who try to stiff dancers, I wish their mothers had preferred anal.

drearea
10-31-2012, 08:49 PM
How on earth does it feel good owing a dancer money? Money that she worked hard for, regardless of how you feel about her, do you somehow think you're getting "revenge" by stiffing her out of her money?
Good lord. Customers who try to stiff dancers, I wish their mothers had preferred anal.


You made me laugh! But seriously, you have some be some sick form of fucked to think owing ANYONE money feels good. I hope you can get whatever mental issues you have sorted (to the OP) so you can learn what a "good feeling" actually is, because if owing someone money does it for you - I pity you.

Chili Palmer
10-31-2012, 09:48 PM
It was in this scenario that the fb ups the number of promises. She was making promises every day, leaving me text messages and voice mails about wanting to get together that night, and each night, not responding to my vms and texts. Over the course of the final week, I was getting promises fast and furious; let's meet before her shift, after shift, during her shift. I was too tired to go while she was working and she never replied to my replies about before or after her shifts. Since I'm writing this, she obviously never delivered. i felt like I was getting pulled in several different directions at the same time.


This reminded me so much of a dancer here. She danced at the same club as her sister, the porn star Chanel St James. Gorgeous little brunette, reminiscent of Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island. She'd always talk and talk about having lunch together and getting together outside the club, but every time I texted her to take her up on her offer, no response. However, if I texted her simply to find out if she was working so I could meet her at the club, always a response from her within 10 minutes. Got old after awhile, and I simply moved on.

CP

Kessler
11-01-2012, 12:28 AM
Sorry, Joe. I had hoped this would have a happier ending. As Chili pointed out with his story, you're not alone. I think someone on here called it "dangling the OTC carrot" - might have been Yoda. Think he said he doesn't have the patience for it - if the girl promises OTC and then doesn't deliver, he's onto the next. Gets old quickly. You know the game well and it sounds like you just got caught up - totally understandable since it started so well. Fuck.

You may wanna settle your debt, though. Clean slate and all. Besides, that might come back to bite you in all sorts of ways that you may not want down the road.

Hope you're feeling better and are better rested these days. All the best to you.

yoda57us
11-01-2012, 09:52 AM
Get a hooker for christ's sake. Stop making an ass out of yourself trying to get pussy from strippers.

Last but not least, pay her the money that you owe her.

rickdugan
11-01-2012, 10:21 AM
Get a hooker for christ's sake.

The problem is that a hooker would probably make him pay upfront. One of the real lessons learned in this thread is that Joe doesn't like to pay his tab. ;)

JoeUnCool
11-01-2012, 10:30 AM
This reminded me so much of a dancer here. She danced at the same club as her sister, the porn star Chanel St James. Gorgeous little brunette, reminiscent of Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island. She'd always talk and talk about having lunch together and getting together outside the club, but every time I texted her to take her up on her offer, no response. However, if I texted her simply to find out if she was working so I could meet her at the club, always a response from her within 10 minutes. Got old after awhile, and I simply moved on.

CP

Yeah, it was a really weird situation. We did hook up a couple of times OTC. There was no money involved in the OTC.

rickdugan
11-01-2012, 10:44 AM
It was in this scenario that the fb ups the number of promises. She was making promises every day, leaving me text messages and voice mails about wanting to get together that night, and each night, not responding to my vms and texts. Over the course of the final week, I was getting promises fast and furious; let's meet before her shift, after shift, during her shift. I was too tired to go while she was working and she never replied to my replies about before or after her shifts. Since I'm writing this, she obviously never delivered. i felt like I was getting pulled in several different directions at the same time. Funny how a lack of sleep causes this. I finally got mad at her and over the course of about 24 hours got mad a few times. Don't worry, I don't yell and scream into voice mails. I just talk down to people when I get upset.

in the hopes of documenting what I learned out of this, I thought I would list some of the items

Women have all the pussy, and all the control.
Women can get dick at any time. Men can't get free nsa pussy easily.
remember the first two items before getting mad at a women that occasionally does give u free pussy.
it is a somewhat good feeling walking out knowing that u owe a dancer $600.
I was the loser here, I didn't remember the situation.
Anyway, that's what happened. Next time, I'll keep my mouth shut.

You've owed her a lot of money for several weeks now AND she gave you free pussy. What more did you expect from her? How exactly did you come to conclude that you are the aggrieved party here? :O

Sorry Joe, but under the circumstances I am a bit confused as to how you now feel morally justified in stiffing her permanently.

JoeUnCool
11-01-2012, 10:56 AM
Get a hooker for christ's sake. Stop making an ass out of yourself trying to get pussy from strippers.

Last but not least, pay her the money that you owe her.

Well, not ever part of every story gets posted. I'm trying to be more story, less every little bit of minutia. Since these facts seem to be an important part of the story, I'll add them in.

The last time we meet OTC, we were talking and I started asking her about the club, how the money flowed in the club, and she was pretty much upfront about it. A bar tender that I know at another club had told me something similar, so I'll take this as fact. Basically, when she and I would do the VIP room, I was only paying for the room, a tip to the bouncer to leave us alone, and a tip to the waitress to leave us alone. Unless she go some kind of kickback on the room, and I doubt that, she couldn't have been making anything. She is the one that had suggested this, not I. I had told her several times while I was at the club that I was uncomfortable with that type of $ relationship. I felt like this was cutting into her money too much. She said several times that she was fine with it. While we were OTC, she repeated that she was fine with it. I did some math and came up with $5-700 is how much she was out just from the few times that I was in the club with her and did one of her "special rate" VIPs. I reiterated to her that I was not comfortable with this. I went on to say that I would get her $s to make up for this. Once again, she said no, it wasn't important to her.

She called me a couple of weeks ago while I was in Boston. But she didn't want to talk about what happened then. Since then, she has not called me back or returned my texts. How can I pay back someone that doesn't want to talk? Yeah, I want to show up at the her club and get thrown out for being a stalker. I've seen bouncers beat the shit out of guys because a girl claimed something that I didn't see occur. Like I want to be one of those guys.

Overall, I think it best that I just move on. My choice of words on the $600 was wrong, so I will go back and change that. I'll probably take this up with someone that knows her through the grapevine at another club.

As for yoda saying that I am just trying to get pussy from strippers, that has never been my goal when this started. I'm just talking in a psuedo anonymous forum. Truthfully, she made the first move and she made the invite. Admittedly, it takes two to tango. One does have to lead, and that wasn't me.

JoeUnCool
11-01-2012, 11:05 AM
You've owed her a lot of money for several weeks now AND she gave you free pussy. What more did you expect from her? How exactly did you come to conclude that you are the aggrieved party here? :O

Sorry Joe, but under the circumstances I am a bit confused as to how you now feel morally justified in stiffing her permanently.

Actually, I don't feel morally justified in any of this. My only reason for posting was to close the loop. After some time to think about things. I actually felt like a dick for getting pissed back in that final week. Its a whole lot easier to see what is happening with some time to reflect on things. When you are in the thick of things, its easy to lose your cool. That's what happened.

JoeUnCool
11-01-2012, 11:15 AM
You made me laugh! But seriously, you have some be some sick form of fucked to think owing ANYONE money feels good. I hope you can get whatever mental issues you have sorted (to the OP) so you can learn what a "good feeling" actually is, because if owing someone money does it for you - I pity you.

Well, it is better than being owed money, which is most of the stories that I hear about. I actually don't feel good about how this ended up, but since you don't know me, you wouldn't know that. I treat everyone with respect until they don't deserve it.

As for your feelings about me, I'd complain to a moderator about your attack on me, but since I am a guy and I know the mods won't do anything, I'll just have to sit and take it.

JoeUnCool
11-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Sorry, Joe. I had hoped this would have a happier ending. As Chili pointed out with his story, you're not alone. I think someone on here called it "dangling the OTC carrot" - might have been Yoda. Think he said he doesn't have the patience for it - if the girl promises OTC and then doesn't deliver, he's onto the next. Gets old quickly. You know the game well and it sounds like you just got caught up - totally understandable since it started so well. Fuck.

You may wanna settle your debt, though. Clean slate and all. Besides, that might come back to bite you in all sorts of ways that you may not want down the road.

Hope you're feeling better and are better rested these days. All the best to you.

Thanks K. I feel a ton better after a few weeks of more regular work times.

I really feel like a dick for getting pissed that last week. Her nephew, yeah, I said nephew, had shared enough about the problems that there family is having at that particular time with her mom's health. When you get outside of the bubble and have time to reflect, I thought "How the f*** could I get mad about this given what is going on?" Unfortunately, when you have no sleep and no communication from the other side, you get upset, it happens. I had told her a couple of times that I understood what was happening on her side, but that I needed just a simple text when things changed. I said I had to schedule things, I understood change, and just needed to know that there was change. She had been really good about this up until that last week. I don't understand the uptick in the promises for that last week that went along with it. It never made a lot of sense, given that there was no money involved in this. I know I wasn't being paid for my stud services, since I am definitely not one. With no communication and no sleep the mind wonders, I said one thing too much. As I said, its a lesson learned. You have no right to get mad when you are getting a freebie.

She said that people in her family know me. She rattled off some names, but I didn't recognize them. I definitely don't like owing anyone money, let alone a dancer. As I have always said, "Never f*** with a dancer's money." I never have before, so this situation is just so foreign to me. I'll end up doing the right thing and getting her the money. I definitely think settling is the right thing.

yoda57us
11-01-2012, 12:07 PM
Actually, I don't feel morally justified in any of this. My only reason for posting was to close the loop. After some time to think about things. I actually felt like a dick for getting pissed back in that final week. Its a whole lot easier to see what is happening with some time to reflect on things. When you are in the thick of things, its easy to lose your cool. That's what happened.

Maybe it would be better if you don't open "the loop" in the first place Joe. Honestly, you talk in circles and either drown us in minutia that means nothing or leave out details that mean everything. You get reactions from people based on a story and then you change, or delete, the story. It's become very difficult to take anything you post here seriously.

As far as "owing" this girl money who can even figure it out? On the one hand you say that she wanted to dance for you for free (stupid on her part but that's on her) and, I'm assuming for pure "in your face bitch" shock value you later claim that you owe her money simply so you can tell us all that you are not going to give it to her.

I don't know how old you are Joe but it appears that you've been around a while and that you are a fairly intelligent guy. What amazes me is that you don't appear to have a lick of common sense or even the slightest clue as to what motivates dancers or even women in general for that matter. Joe, you are a danger to yourself. Keep a good grip on your wallet and watch your ass in the clubs. Someday a bouncer is going to give you a beat down when you fall for a line from the wrong dancer. I hope I'm wrong but, honestly, your conduct puzzles and scares me a little. Of course, by your own admonition I'm probably not getting the whole story on any of this...

shasta
11-01-2012, 04:27 PM
This is totally made up.

rickdugan
11-02-2012, 03:26 AM
Actually, I don't feel morally justified in any of this. My only reason for posting was to close the loop. After some time to think about things. I actually felt like a dick for getting pissed back in that final week. Its a whole lot easier to see what is happening with some time to reflect on things. When you are in the thick of things, its easy to lose your cool. That's what happened.

Idk Joe. When I read something like this...


it is a somewhat good feeling walking out knowing that u owe a dancer $600.

...it comes across as very self satisfied. I noticed that you had a revisionist moment and changed this once you received feedback, but I believe that this was due to the disapproval you sensed from other posters rather than any real feelings of repentance.

As an aside, I cannot help but agree with yoda that you may want to avoid OTC situations with dancers. Some guys just aren't emotionally equipped for casual sex and I cannot help but believe that you are one of these guys. I routinely engage in p4p OTC activities with dancers and have never had issues as complicated or dramatic as those that you have encountered in a couple of isolated OTC adventures.

In this most recent instance, IMHO the boundaries blurred as you lost sight of what this was really was, which is why you got so worked up over her failure to deliver on so-called "promises." I also don't buy for a second that, in all of that time, you could not have visited her in the club if you wanted to, but rather believe that you didn't want this to be a "club thing."

Anyway, just my thoughts for whatever they are actually worth.