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Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 10:17 AM
In MY HEAD it makes sense!! lmao, sorry. There is ABSOLUTELY NO connection between rape and safer sex. I too was raped and got pregnant with my oldest son. But being raped, for me only enforced my thoughts on protecting my body from that happening again. Thus no sex, or safe sex. Does that make more sense? Sorry I may need more coffee. LOL.

I am always sorry to hear when women become pregnant as a result of rape. That to me is another issue because the woman was definitely the victim. However Cherrie and women who have unprotected sex are not victims. I see too often we blame the men completely for the woman getting pregnant (or the woman)but it's both of them except in rape.

I know you weren't equating the two, just thinking of this in general.

Djoser
10-20-2012, 12:10 PM
Neither is blaming the women. Can we just forget about gender and instead just hold people accountable for their actions?

Since the title of the thread blames men in general for the problem, it's a little difficult to simply forget about gender in this case.

I'm all for letting her vent, but not for letting her hold all men accountable for the fact that she chose to give a lying sack of shit the chance to impregnate her, and is now suffering for her mistaken judgment and his utter lack of a conscience.


(Clarification: What I mean is that only one of two people has criminally broken the law. You speak of having better 'radar' but when you are being manipulated by someone you love it is biologically easy to be blinded to it.)

It's also biologically easy to be blinded by manipulative women utterly devoid of conscience. But blaming women in general for the consequences will not be likely to garner much sympathy from them.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 12:18 PM
Since the title of the thread blames men in general for the problem, it's a little difficult to simply forget about gender in this case.

I'm all for letting her vent, but not for letting her hold all men accountable for the fact that she chose to give a lying sack of shit the chance to impregnate her, and is now suffering for her mistaken judgment and his utter lack of a conscience.



It's also biologically easy to be blinded by manipulative women utterly devoid of conscience. But blaming women in general for the consequences will not be likely to garner much sympathy from them.

I have no problem with the issue you take with the title. Your point is very valid. That is why I made the statement about people and consquences outside of gender. But, in your arguement you didn't mention the title of the thread at all. You said, " But if the women who wound up victimized had better radar about these types, there wouldn't be so many problems."

That is what I took issue with. I have no problem with saying that there are deadbeat dads that are pieces of shit and that there are deadbeat women that are pieces of shit. My issue is your assumption that it was the women's fault that they didn't have better 'radar'.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 12:23 PM
I am always sorry to hear when women become pregnant as a result of rape. That to me is another issue because the woman was definitely the victim. However Cherrie and women who have unprotected sex are not victims. I see too often we blame the men completely for the woman getting pregnant (or the woman)but it's both of them except in rape.

I know you weren't equating the two, just thinking of this in general.

Yes, both of them made a bad decision that they have to live with....but the statement 'but why do women keep making babies with these guys?' is a judgement statement that subtly suggests that the women is MORE at fault than the man because she 'made' a baby with him.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 12:26 PM
I know several women who got pregnant on birth control used 100% correctly, so its just not possible to prevent pregnancy 100% if you're having sex unless you consider abortion a viable form of birth control should it come to that. Pregnancy is always a risk no matter what.

And you don't know if the guy will be a deadbeat dad or not til it happens (or if he already is one & you know about it).

There are just too many variables with these kinds of things.

Wow, you say things WAY better than I do. I admire your straight to the point communication skills. :)

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 12:29 PM
Yes, both of them made a bad decision that they have to live with....but the statement 'but why do women keep making babies with these guys?' is a judgement statement that subtly suggests that the women is MORE at fault than the man because she 'made' a baby with him.

The reality is though is the woman suffers the pregnancy. The man doesn't and can leave at anytime. Meanwhile often the woman ends up going on welfare because dad is nowhere to be found. That is why the woman is held more responsible. It shouldn't be this way, both people should be paying but that isn't the case in most unwed pregnancies.

Both people need to be responsible and women need to make sure to avoid these men, just like men need to avoid women who want to use them for their sperm (and yes there are women like this).

Djoser
10-20-2012, 12:37 PM
But, in your arguement you didn't mention the title of the thread at all. You said, " But if the women who wound up victimized had better radar about these types, there wouldn't be so many problems."


^^^Oh yeah, I'm not knocking the severe challenge she is facing getting anything much out of the guy.

My point was that this guy is very clearly sociopathic, and utterly devoid of a conscience--if this is number four unsupported child taken to court--and probably a few more we don't know about as well. Granted, so many sociopathic predator types are so good at hiding their real game--often because they have convinced themselves that their skewed reality is the Truth, which gives them the power of conviction. But if the women who wound up victimized had better radar about these types, there wouldn't be so many problems.

So simply blaming men in general for the situation entirely is not the correct perspective.

I didn't think it was all that hard to associate the title of the thread with my point in the last sentence.

Granted, I often have about as much sympathy for women who get stuck with lying sacks of shit babbydaddies as so many women have for guys who get taken by scheming, manipulative, lying women--and turn to misogyny as a result. Too many years in the business watching it happen over and over and over again, working both ways. From my experience, both sexes could often use better radar.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 12:42 PM
Djoser, very true. I have seen both sexes be used by losers and I keep asking why. I've noticed in general that the women I knew were used for sex (often these are the ones with the kids by these guys)and the men used for their money. There are exceptions of course, just seen these scenarios far too often and am tired of it.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 12:45 PM
The reality is though is the woman suffers the pregnancy. The man doesn't and can leave at anytime. Meanwhile often the woman ends up going on welfare because dad is nowhere to be found. That is why the woman is held more responsible. It shouldn't be this way, both people should be paying but that isn't the case in most unwed pregnancies.

Both people need to be responsible and women need to make sure to avoid these men, just like men need to avoid women who want to use them for their sperm (and yes there are women like this).

How is she not being responsible? She is now currently taking care of the child and would like him to quit avoiding the law and to do the same.

This is not a perfect world. Nothing is 100%.

Yes, there are women in this world who want to use men for their sperm and there are also women in this world that are lesbian and have no desire for men at all. Neither of these facts are currently relevant to the point I am making.

The point I am making is that regardless of personal opinion on what she could of/would of/might have done that does not let him out of his responsibilities nor makes her responsible for his.

So, if someone comes into your home and robs you. Are they not at fault because they are poor and you are rich? Should you not report it to the police because everyone knows that there are people in this world that rob people and you should of been more responsible and had less stuff?

The fact that people are suggesting that a women is more responsible for the baby situation than a man because 'she suffers more' makes me frusterated because it is the same reasoning people use that a women shouldn't of been 'dressed so sexy' if she didn't want to risk being raped.

Personal responsibility is personal responsibilty. He is not paying child support and he should be. She is frusterated that he isn't. Why does she have to justify the situation she is currently in?

I understand the issue that people have with the title. There are a lot of amazing dads out there and we do them a disservice by saying men always are deadbead. Completely valid.

The whole 'you brought this on yourself because you should of known better vibe'? Not so much.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 12:51 PM
I didn't think it was all that hard to associate the title of the thread with my point in the last sentence.

Granted, I often have about as much sympathy for women who get stuck with lying sacks of shit babbydaddies as so many women have for guys who get taken by scheming, manipulative, lying women--and turn to misogyny as a result. Too many years in the business watching it happen over and over and over again, working both ways. From my experience, both sexes could often use better radar.

You are making a flawed assumption that 'better radar' can exist. In order for better radar to exist you'd have to be able to logic your way out of emotion. If you could logic your way out of emotion there would be a whole bunch of broken-hearted love songs that would never exist. ;)

rickdugan
10-20-2012, 12:53 PM
That is what I took issue with. I have no problem with saying that there are deadbeat dads that are pieces of shit and that there are deadbeat women that are pieces of shit. My issue is your assumption that it was the women's fault that they didn't have better 'radar'.

I'm just scratching my head over the fact that she seems so outraged now or that she thought that there would be any other outcome.

Before she ever slept with him, she already knew that:

1. He had a kid with another woman;
2. He did not marry Baby Mamma #1;
3. He had a shit job;
4. There was no ring on her finger; and
5. She would probably get pregnant if he stuck his unwrapped dick in her.

What has happened since was almost inevitable.

Even if there was only one other Baby Mamma, she'd still be fighting over what amounts to table scraps. Would another $250 per month really have made a meaningful difference in the life of the child? As everyone here knows, children are very expensive to care for and we can all readily guess at who is now footing the bill for the child's health care and perhaps even some of her nutritional needs.

And yes, they are equally to blame, but he isn't the one that is stuck with the burdens of raising and providing for the child, now is he? That was also almost inevitable and really should not have come as any surprise to anyone.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 12:54 PM
How is she not being responsible? She is now currently taking care of the child and would like him to quit avoiding the law and to do the same.

This is not a perfect world. Nothing is 100%.

Yes, there are women in this world who want to use men for their sperm and there are also women in this world that are lesbian and have no desire for men at all. Neither of these facts are currently relevant to the point I am making.

The point I am making is that regardless of personal opinion on what she could of/would of/might have done that does not let him out of his responsibilities nor makes her responsible for his.

So, if someone comes into your home and robs you. Are they not at fault because they are poor and you are rich? Should you not report it to the police because everyone knows that there are people in this world that rob people and you should of been more responsible and had less stuff?

The fact that people are suggesting that a women is more responsible for the baby situation than a man because 'she suffers more' makes me frusterated because it is the same reasoning people use that a women shouldn't of been 'dressed so sexy' if she didn't want to risk being raped.

Personal responsibility is personal responsibilty. He is not paying child support and he should be. She is frusterated that he isn't. Why does she have to justify the situation she is currently in?

I understand the issue that people have with the title. There are a lot of amazing dads out there and we do them a disservice by saying men always are deadbead. Completely valid.

The whole 'you brought this on yourself because you should of known better vibe'? Not so much.

She is being responsible for taking care of her kid, but she wasn't responsible by having sex with him unprotected. Unprotected sex when one doesn't want a baby is irresponsible. They both should have known better but she was the one who got pregnant, not him.

Someone breaking into one's house is different than this because that is one sided and the person who owns the house was the victim. The OP isn't the victim here because she had sex freely with this guy.

Also, comparing this with a rape victim isn't the same thing because like the person who was robbed, the rape victim was a victim. The OP could have chosen not to have sex with him, already knowing he had an out of wedlock child but decided instead to have sex. That makes her just to blame for this as the man, though she is at least being responsible.

I am not sure what the lesbian comparison had to do with anything because I never said that at all. I said women often trick men into getting them pregnant (and of course men trick them too)but that isn't what happened here.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:06 PM
She is being responsible for taking care of her kid, but she wasn't responsible by having sex with him unprotected. Unprotected sex when one doesn't want a baby is irresponsible. They both should have known better but she was the one who got pregnant, not him.

Someone breaking into one's house is different than this because that is one sided and the person who owns the house was the victim. The OP isn't the victim here because she had sex freely with this guy.

Also, comparing this with a rape victim isn't the same thing because like the person who was robbed, the rape victim was a victim. The OP could have chosen not to have sex with him, already knowing he had an out of wedlock child but decided instead to have sex. That makes her just to blame for this as the man, though she is at least being responsible.

I am not sure what the lesbian comparison had to do with anything because I never said that at all. I said women often trick men into getting them pregnant (and of course men trick them too)but that isn't what happened here.

You brought up a lot of issues, so I will try to address them one point at a time. Please tell me if I have missed something. I will be going backwards (since that is the easiest for my lazy brain to read. ;) )

1. "I am not sure what the lesbian comparison had to do with anything because I never said that at all. I said women often trick men into getting them pregnant (and of course men trick them too)but that isn't what happened here."

My point was the fact that she didn't trick him into getting pregnant that your point was a red herring to the argument.

2. "Also, comparing this with a rape victim isn't the same thing because like the person who was robbed, the rape victim was a victim. The OP could have chosen not to have sex with him, already knowing he had an out of wedlock child but decided instead to have sex. That makes her just to blame for this as the man, though she is at least being responsible."

Okay, how about we change my example to you being robbed by someone you knew and trusted. Are you now responible for not having known that they were going to rob you? What if they had a history of robbing before the age of 18, but hadn't robbed anyone in their adult years. Are you responsible for not knowing now? Where is the tipping point where their crime of robbing you turns into your responsibility of not knowing?

The point I am trying to make is that it is easy to sit back and judge other people's choices. But it isn't productive to the person looking for support.

I have no problem with the argument that we shouldn't make assumptions that all men are deadbeat dads and that the title makes an unfair generalization. My problem is judging someone's choices when they are looking for support.

Djoser
10-20-2012, 01:08 PM
You are making a flawed assumption that 'better radar' can exist. In order for better radar to exist you'd have to be able to logic your way out of emotion. If you could logic your way out of emotion there would be a whole bunch of broken-hearted love songs that would never exist. ;)

You are making a flawed assumption that better radar can't exist.

I've known many, many men and women who were quite adept at spotting lying, manipulative users of both sexes long before making the serious error of fucking them. And either getting pregnant or forking over untold thousands of dollars.

If I were to start a thread 'When will women how to NOT take men for thousands of dollars?', I'd get ripped to shreds. Granted it's a support forum for dancers, but that doesn't mean we are doing dancers in general any favors by telling them it's never their fault they got pregnant, because they were biologically blinded.

The lesson I've learned from watching people interact in the clubs for the last 13 years? Don't trust your immediate biological reaction on seeing an attractive potential mate of your species. Don't think like an animal in rutting season. Think of the bank account, or of the fact you can get pregnant and the guy could simply run away.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:09 PM
Even if there was only one other Baby Mamma, she'd still be fighting over what amounts to table scraps. Would another $250 per month really have made a meaningful difference in the life of the child?

Well, I can tell you as someone who can barely make end meet that $250 extra a month could make a meaningful different in my life.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 01:10 PM
I am not judging her personally, just the fact she decided to have unprotected sex with a man who already had an out of wedlock child. If anything sends bad signs it is that. She knew going in he wasn't a class guy and should have either used protection or not had sex with him. I have seen this scenario time and again and these women knew this guy would do this. So no she is not a victim, the child is.

The robbing example still doesn't equate to this because he didn't force her into having sex at all and she knew from the beginning he was like this.

Naida
10-20-2012, 01:11 PM
My two cents on this issue-

I can't blame men for situations like this any more than women. Simply put, it takes two to tango.

If a guy doesn't want to be on the hook for supporting the kid, he needs to put a helmet on that soldier.
If a woman doesn't want to be a single mom, she has way more options than a guy does. As insensitive as I'm about to sound, I don't support "I was raped" as an excuse in most cases. It's one thing if the girl was a minor and denied access to BC because of her situation at home, those situations aren't using rape as an excuse because she really didn't have any choice at any point. (This situation is why I'll be putting my daughter on BC as soon as she starts mensing, if/when I have kids.) But if a woman is over 18? There is no reason for her to be without birth control before marriage, even when she's abstinent because of the risk of rape.

And just as many men try to dodge responsibility for their kids, there are women abusing the child support system. I grew up in one of these situations. My biological parents were married at the time of my birth, but spilt before I was 2. My father shirked his responsibility to support me until the courts caught up to him. When my mom started getting those payments, do you think I ever saw a dime of it? No. She used her child support checks to pamper herself while the quality of life for us children showed no improvement.

At the end of the day, unless you're married, neither partner should be risking this situation.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:12 PM
"You are making a flawed assumption that better radar can't exist."

No I am not.


I've known many, many men and women who were quite adept at spotting lying, manipulative users of both sexes long before making the serious error of fucking them.

Actually if you'd like, I could point you in the direction of scientific papers on who people think they are better at spotting liars than they actually are. And the more over-confident they are in their ability (such as judge or police) the worse they are.

The lesson I have learned from years of neuroscience is perception is everything.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 01:14 PM
You are making a flawed assumption that better radar can't exist.

I've known many, many men and women who were quite adept at spotting lying, manipulative users of both sexes long before making the serious error of fucking them. And either getting pregnant or forking over untold thousands of dollars.

If I were to start a thread 'When will women how to NOT take men for thousands of dollars?', I'd get ripped to shreds. Granted it's a support forum for dancers, but that doesn't mean we are doing dancers in general any favors by telling them it's never their fault they got pregnant, because they were biologically blinded.

The lesson I've learned from watching people interact in the clubs for the last 13 years? Don't trust your immediate biological reaction on seeing an attractive mate of your species. Don't think like an animal in rutting season. Think of the bank account, or of the fact you can get pregnant and the guy could simply run away.

Maybe it's me but dancing in clubs actually made me more aware of these men. I can now spot these types of men a mile away by their actions.

Every time I read things like not blaming people for being blind about sex it makes me think that person is equating humans to animals. Yes we are animals but also have brains and should be using them to see right through these types of people.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:15 PM
I am not judging her personally, just the fact she decided to have unprotected sex with a man who already had an out of wedlock child.

But, in that statement you ARE judging her personally.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 01:22 PM
But, in that statement you ARE judging her personally.

The fact is she should have chosen a better man to have sex with. She made a poor choice that sadly she is dealing with. Too many people make this poor choice instead of thinking things clearly. I am not judging her personally, just her choice. Like I said I give her credit for supporting her child regardless of this and I hope she gets money from this scum.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:23 PM
Ack! Too many things coming at the same time. Would anyone mind if I just make a generalized answer?

It is easy to judge other people and their choices. But, it is not productive to tell people they were an idiot and could of made better ones. I assure you, they already know.

Human beings make mistakes. Yes, we can think but you have to remember that not everyone thinks like you do. Not everyone has had your life experience and therefore are not seeing the situation with the same perception that you are.

One person came in to rant about a situation that was frustrating for them and causing them emotional pain. They said they were ranting and that was a disclaimer that it wasn't coming from a rational place.

What I am trying to point out to everyone, and doing a miserable job at it because we keep getting distracted by the side points is that there are children involved in this situation. Children who weren't offered a choice. Children that are doing without.

To me, that is the issue. Who wouldn't be upset to see their children doing without? Who wouldn't want to rant? The damage is already done.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 01:30 PM
But here's the thing, I see this issue ALL THE TIME both offline and online. I know women personally who had kids with men who they knew wouldn't stay around because they just had to have sex with them and the guys wouldn't wear condoms. Smart or poor judgement? Anyone I would hope would definitely say poor judgement but that the woman knew going in this was a possibility. There are countless threads here from women about this exact issue and it's not that uncommon. Why does this keep happening? Why aren't people being more careful? I understand sex is something we all need but still there are plenty of options, such as birth control, or oral sex or abstinence or many other options.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:30 PM
There is no reason for her to be without birth control before marriage, even when she's abstinent because of the risk of rape.

Actually there are many reason, a lot of them health related.

One of them is if you have a history of breast cancer in your family most doctors will not give you BC because it increases your risk.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:33 PM
But here's the thing, I see this issue ALL THE TIME both offline and online. I know women personally who had kids with men who they knew wouldn't stay around because they just had to have sex with them and the guys wouldn't wear condoms. Smart or poor judgement? Anyone I would hope would definitely say poor judgement but that the woman knew going in this was a possibility. There are countless threads here from women about this exact issue and it's not that uncommon. Why does this keep happening? Why aren't people being more careful? I understand sex is something we all need but still there are plenty of options, such as birth control, or oral sex or abstinence or many other options.

Issue: Human being. Emotionally hurting. In need of support

Your bias to the situation she is in that is causing her distress is what is making you missing the main point I am making.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 01:38 PM
Another thing btw regarding the birth control is that for me I was unable to use the pill. I used to suffer from severe headaches and other issues and was advised against it. Not to mention I don't trust the pill on a few things (I am generally anti drugs in many cases as it changes the body chemistry).

Because of this I had to be very careful in my 20s since high fertility runs in my family. I engaged in oral sex a lot, or used condoms with spermicide (and required him to pull out asap) or touched each other, or even learned how to regulate my cycle so I knew when I was ovulating (which I still do). All of this prevented pregnancy because I knew at that moment I didn't want to be a mother. I was generally careful with men I slept with and those I really wanted to have sex with but suspected wouldn't stick around we had oral sex or I did nothing at all with.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 01:42 PM
Issue: Human being. Emotionally hurting. In need of support

Your bias to the situation she is in that is causing her distress is what is making you missing the main point I am making.

I told her I hope things work out well for her because I hope they do. However the fact is many people have seen this issue she is mentioning and have discussed it generally, not specifically about her.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:44 PM
@Cherrie05 -- For what it is worth, I am sorry about the madhouse that this thread has become. I swear I started out with the best intentions. LOL. Isn't that always the way? :D

I am also sorry that things have been sucking lately for you, and I hope that the courts eventually end up making him pay so life can get at least a bit easier.

sierra.
10-20-2012, 01:44 PM
Oh my god, justanothercamgirl, I think I love you.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:47 PM
I told her I hope things work out well for her because I hope they do. However the fact is many people have seen this issue she is mentioning and have discussed it generally, not specifically about her.

I saw that, and I thought that was really sweet of you Kellydancer. I just personally wish that the non-specific issues could of been discussed in a non-personal thread since this post was specifically about her. Makes it hard to separate the issues from the person.
YKWIM?

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 01:48 PM
With these threads though they end up in other issues and that happens in every thread.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:49 PM
Oh my god, justanothercamgirl, I think I love you.

I was unaware that my inability to know when to shut up was such a redeemable quality. (*grins*)

Djoser
10-20-2012, 01:50 PM
"You are making a flawed assumption that better radar can't exist."

No I am not.



Actually if you'd like, I could point you in the direction of scientific papers on who people think they are better at spotting liars than they actually are. And the more over-confident they are in their ability (such as judge or police) the worse they are.

The lesson I have learned from years of neuroscience is perception is everything.

The lesson I have learned from thirteen years watching men and women use each other in the clubs--don't let yourself be biologically blinded, or you'll wind up pregnant with a loser babbydaddy and/or an empty bank account.

I'm quite aware that a lot of people who claim they can always spot a bullshitter will easily fall for them. I've seen the PUAs in fact pickup bigtime in every stripclub I've worked in, despite the repeated assertions by dancers that they would never, ever fall for them. And I've seen many wannabe studmuffin PUAs get taken for rides by consummate hustlers, as well.

And cops are renowned for generally having the worst marriages, too. :D

Nonetheless, I don't buy into your assertion that we are no better than rutting animals, utterly devoid of self-control when it comes to mating time.

And I've also known a whole lot of people--including many dancers and customers--who were able to avoid getting impregnated by lying scumbags, or their bank accounts drained. So yes, better radar can apparently exist.

But somehow I don't think we are getting anywhere with this back and forth.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 01:53 PM
The lesson I have learned from thirteen years watching men and women use each other in the clubs--don't let yourself be biologically blinded, or you'll wind up pregnant with a loser babbydaddy and/or an empty bank account.

I'm quite aware that a lot of people who claim they can always spot a bullshitter will easily fall for them. I've seen the PUAs in fact pickup bigtime in every stripclub I've worked in, despite the repeated assertions by dancers that they would never, ever fall for them. And I've seen many wannabe studmuffin PUAs get taken for rides by consummate hustlers, as well.

And cops are renowned for generally having the worst marriages, too. :D

Nonetheless, I don't buy into your assertion that we are no better than rutting animals, utterly devoid of self-control when it comes to mating time.

And I've also known a whole lot of people--including many dancers and customers--who were able to avoid getting impregnated by lying scumbags, or their bank accounts drained. So yes, better radar can apparently exist.

But somehow I don't think we are getting anywhere with this back and forth.

If you ever bored and wish to continue this in PM, I would be more than open to it. The reason we aren't getting anywhere with the back and forth is because first we have to figure out the semantics of the word 'radar'. Since it is a non-standard dictionary word for all we know our perception of it could be completely different. And I will completely spare you publicly picking apart all the false assumptions you just made about my personal perception in this last post. ;)

Djoser
10-20-2012, 02:10 PM
LOL good luck with that. 'All the false assumptions about my perception...' ?

Other than comparing being 'biologically blinded' with giving into 'rutting behavior', I was discussing my own perceptions in that last post. Granted my own perceptions seem to differ a great deal from yours.

But I agree it won't do any good to continue, and certainly won't help the OP in her distressing predicament.

justanothercamgirl
10-20-2012, 02:14 PM
LOL good luck with that. 'All the false assumptions about my perception...' ?

Other than comparing being 'biologically blinded' with giving into 'rutting behavior', I was discussing my own perceptions in that last post. Granted my own perceptions seem to differ a great deal from yours.

But I agree it won't do any good to continue, and certainly won't help the OP in her distressing predicament.

Agreed!

And I promise I wasn't being trite, I am truly interested in your views on the human experience. I have no vested interest in 'proving you wrong.' I like when people question the assumptions I am making. It is the only way for sure that I can ever know exactly what they are in the first place! ;)

Optimist
10-20-2012, 04:19 PM
I was unaware that my inability to know when to shut up was such a redeemable quality. (*grins*)

Honey, I'm so glad to see you come along and debate and contribute to one of the better exchanges on here in a bit!! Personally, I'm tickled pink to see you guys go at it intellectually and not go below the belt. Wonderful example, guys.

Djoser
10-20-2012, 06:10 PM
Honey, I'm so glad to see you come along and debate and contribute to one of the better exchanges on here in a bit!! Don't worry if you can't sway everyone to your POV, it's getting in the scrum and mixing it up that counts! :heartbeat: :yes: Personally, I'm tickled pink to see you guys go at it intellectually and not go below the belt. Wonderful example, guys. If this were a thread requesting advice then you'd have to go easy but it's a rant thread so debate is perfectly fine.

Yeah I agree.

I liked the part about the broken hearted love songs, it made me laugh because one of my favorite movie scenes is where the guy literally rips his car radio out of the dash and throws it out the window when one came on. :D

My only regret is that we got so into the debate on responsibility and 'radar' to such an extent that the OP's purpose in starting the thread (venting) was subsumed in the debate about the title, etc.

Kellydancer
10-20-2012, 07:57 PM
I like seeing threads where people can disagree in a polite way, like in this one. I really do understand where many of the opposing viewpoints are coming from, though I may disagree.

bubblegumbitch
10-26-2012, 02:00 PM
i think alot of ppl are forgetting the fact that we are still human beings and do make mistakes.. and can learn from them? yes there are certain measures one can logically take to lower the risks of the consequences of the choices we make in our daily lives but shaming someone for making a human error just isn't going to solve anything. on the flip side from all the traps, messes and faults we find ourselves in, one can take it as a learning lesson to better your own lives and better equip ourselves with the knowledge to help us and prevent from falling into those traps again.

i am not going to pretend that i am perfect; i had unprotected sex off/on throughout my adult life, got pregnant only one time in my life; at 17, had a miscarriage soonafter. were with men who were abusive to me/used me for money and/or sex. i was a predator's prime target meal for being emotionally vulnerable and not loving myself and lacking my own needs and self worth. one simply cannot develop a better radar without either going through it themselves or seeing it happen to others. no one is born with perfect knowledge to keep ourselves out of shit. all of us gets into shit one form or another but we learn, adapt and move on. predators come in all shapes and forms; gender, forced sex, unforced sex (someone emotionally vulnerable can be victims too). it is also unjustly to say one cannot develop better radar, once u been there, u can spot the characteristics better. one may not flawless at it but it lessens your risk of you becoming they're next meal. biology evens proves that.

this kinda explains in more of a scientific way of what i am trying to say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_tI9_so1Q4

ModelJolie
11-14-2012, 11:55 AM
I'm just scratching my head over the fact that she seems so outraged now or that she thought that there would be any other outcome.

Before she ever slept with him, she already knew that:

1. He had a kid with another woman;
2. He did not marry Baby Mamma #1;
3. He had a shit job;
4. There was no ring on her finger; and
5. She would probably get pregnant if he stuck his unwrapped dick in her.

What has happened since was almost inevitable.

Even if there was only one other Baby Mamma, she'd still be fighting over what amounts to table scraps. Would another $250 per month really have made a meaningful difference in the life of the child? As everyone here knows, children are very expensive to care for and we can all readily guess at who is now footing the bill for the child's health care and perhaps even some of her nutritional needs.

And yes, they are equally to blame, but he isn't the one that is stuck with the burdens of raising and providing for the child, now is he? That was also almost inevitable and really should not have come as any surprise to anyone.

Thank you! I am a mother with a shitbag baby daddy, but I accept the fact that he doesn't care for our son, instead I WORK LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER to provide for and raise my child. I don't need praise for taking care of what's mine. I knew from the moment I found out I was preggers that if things didn't work out between us, that I would be the primary caregiver to our child, which meant sole financial responsibility. Did I file for a child support order to be placed on him? Of course I did, but you don't hear me bitching when that check doesn't get deposited into my bank account (since he can't hold down a job, WHICH I ALREADY KNEW). What you do hear, is me getting my ASS TO WORK so that I don't have to depend on a measely $300 that I could make on my own in a matter of an hour or two. And what does my son think of all of this? Well, he has never met his bio dad. I KNEW HOW HE WAS FROM THE START, AND DIDN'T EXPECT ANYTHING MORE OUT OF HIM, and I feel like that saved my son from a lot of heartbreak. My son has never had to see me yelling on the phone with his bio dad, or stress about not having enough $$ to get us through the month because I don't do those things. I did meet another man about four years ago, just before my son's first birthday. He turned out to be a great guy and has been a daddy to my son ever since. He wants to move forward with adopting my boy, but that will be another thread lol. My point is, just move on from the shitbag! Don't spend your time and energy trying to make him be a dad, it's a waste of your precious time!

rickdugan
11-15-2012, 07:50 AM
Thank you! I am a mother with a shitbag baby daddy, but I accept the fact that he doesn't care for our son, instead I WORK LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER to provide for and raise my child. I don't need praise for taking care of what's mine. I knew from the moment I found out I was preggers that if things didn't work out between us, that I would be the primary caregiver to our child, which meant sole financial responsibility. Did I file for a child support order to be placed on him? Of course I did, but you don't hear me bitching when that check doesn't get deposited into my bank account (since he can't hold down a job, WHICH I ALREADY KNEW). What you do hear, is me getting my ASS TO WORK so that I don't have to depend on a measely $300 that I could make on my own in a matter of an hour or two. And what does my son think of all of this? Well, he has never met his bio dad. I KNEW HOW HE WAS FROM THE START, AND DIDN'T EXPECT ANYTHING MORE OUT OF HIM, and I feel like that saved my son from a lot of heartbreak. My son has never had to see me yelling on the phone with his bio dad, or stress about not having enough $$ to get us through the month because I don't do those things. I did meet another man about four years ago, just before my son's first birthday. He turned out to be a great guy and has been a daddy to my son ever since. He wants to move forward with adopting my boy, but that will be another thread lol. My point is, just move on from the shitbag! Don't spend your time and energy trying to make him be a dad, it's a waste of your precious time!

I know you don't expect praise, but you are awesome. IMHO you did everything right here. Not only did you step up and do what you had to do, but you even found your son a real father to look up to and kept his life free from drama associated with the shitbag.

Every kid whose father turns out to be a shithead should have a mother like you. I'm even guessing that you cannot imagine doing anything less for your child, but all too often I see mothers fall far short of what you have done. IME, there are a fair number of single mothers out their who cannot get out of their own heads enough to focus on providing the best possible lives for their children, but instead wallow in drama and self-pity.

Thank you for posting this.

Djoser
11-15-2012, 07:58 AM
Thank you! I am a mother with a shitbag baby daddy, but I accept the fact that he doesn't care for our son, instead I WORK LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER to provide for and raise my child. I don't need praise for taking care of what's mine. I knew from the moment I found out I was preggers that if things didn't work out between us, that I would be the primary caregiver to our child, which meant sole financial responsibility. Did I file for a child support order to be placed on him? Of course I did, but you don't hear me bitching when that check doesn't get deposited into my bank account (since he can't hold down a job, WHICH I ALREADY KNEW). What you do hear, is me getting my ASS TO WORK so that I don't have to depend on a measely $300 that I could make on my own in a matter of an hour or two. And what does my son think of all of this? Well, he has never met his bio dad. I KNEW HOW HE WAS FROM THE START, AND DIDN'T EXPECT ANYTHING MORE OUT OF HIM, and I feel like that saved my son from a lot of heartbreak. My son has never had to see me yelling on the phone with his bio dad, or stress about not having enough $$ to get us through the month because I don't do those things. I did meet another man about four years ago, just before my son's first birthday. He turned out to be a great guy and has been a daddy to my son ever since. He wants to move forward with adopting my boy, but that will be another thread lol. My point is, just move on from the shitbag! Don't spend your time and energy trying to make him be a dad, it's a waste of your precious time!

My mom was the same--she was 17 when she had my brother but figured out his dad was a dipshit. Though she could have chosen a better match personality wise than my dad, at least she picked a man who would pay his due, and show the loyalty and love a good father should.

Congrats on your turnaround, and you fierce motherly spirit.

shift_6x
11-21-2012, 01:07 PM
I also know women in their 30's and 40's who, by choice, don't have kids yet and may never because they haven't met a guy worth pro-creating with.

Thats me...The female in her 30s who hasnt found anyone yet worth having a child with and who has also not been ready for the responsibility of one.