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View Full Version : "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports



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Cam_Model_Jess
10-18-2012, 02:49 PM
You know, I just don't "do" fear-mongering. I am not the most positive person, but I have learned, thru years in this industry, that every time I think I know something, I am only scratching the surface. And even with as much as I know, I don't have control over the industry and therefor cannot possibly anticipate with 100% certainty the next move of the players involved and thus the outcome.

If I always anticipated the worst I would be an unhappy person.

I like to think I am prepared for the worst, or even if not prepared, that I am willing to accept the worst. But until it's proven to me that certain changes ARE going to happen, it's business as usual here. SM has gone thru a lot of changes, and I'm adaptable.

roast
10-18-2012, 03:16 PM
This sort of pornstar to average camgirl debate thing - just to throw this out: I regularly act as an affiliate for most cam sites. I dont do a ton of 'find this specific model' kind of ad attempts so take this with a grain of salt: but when I do... i mean, unless a pornstar has a really strong online presence and online following, their conversions dont match at all to most of the girls next door (or niche, so Ill give this part of the debate that credit) advertisements. Their clickthrus will be huge because of the name but actual paid conversions? Meaning the guy signed up for the site with his card? In a way that beats out of even rivals GNDs? Ehhhh....

Most affiliate consoles arent chockful of pornstar content either? So the folks doing some of the advertisements legwork arent dramatically encouraged to pimp pornstars to draw traffic... certainly not heavily, Id argue .... only kinda? Unless the performer has a free or heavily discounted show coming up then they are a name draw for people rushing for 'signup' paid conversions bc the clickthrus are high for bigger names.... but most affiliates dont select 'lifetime payoff' for freebie big name show links (I dont, I have and regretted it). That's just my experience.

Really the biggest BOOM and shift in the online sex industry as of late are adult dating site scams. There are many reasons for this but the pictures populating these adult dating site scams are camgirls who are very girl next door? The link between average lady and sex industry $$ is very very high. MyFreeCams is a ridiculously lucrative example of this.

Webcams.com was bought by ManWin awhile ago... their affiliate console has barely changed. They used to do "come watch x pornstar for free!" weekly shows shortly after the acquisition but the 2 performers contracted stopped doing them (awhile ago) and they now regularly do girl next door type of free shows: http://www.webcams.com/

So I think this debate needs to be couched a bit more in using Webcams.com as an example of what ManWin does and doesnt do after an acquisition, bc we already have a litmus test.

Id say: not much (certainly not immediately) happens?

temptingmodel
10-18-2012, 03:36 PM
I thought Manwin bought them out like in January? Was I dreaming?

Incantatious
10-18-2012, 03:49 PM
Fantastic post, roast.


Really the biggest BOOM and shift in the online sex industry as of late are adult dating site scams. There are many reasons for this but the pictures populating these adult dating site scams are camgirls who are very girl next door? The link between average lady and sex industry $$ is very very high. MyFreeCams is a ridiculously lucrative example of this.

What's the point of paying to watch a camgirl when you could be jerking off to the BILLIONS of online tube videos and porn online?
What's the point of paying to watch an amateur camgirl over paying to watch a porn star?

And why are amateur girls as opposed to porn stars so often advertised as adult dating site scams, bringing in the site so much cash?

We look OBTAINABLE.


We are the hot girl guys foster secret crushes on in college.
We are the alluring girl next door who renders him into nervous sweat to even say "hi" to.
The porn star is now so extremely obtainable.
We have become the tempting forbidden.

temptingmodel
10-18-2012, 03:54 PM
haha I always read threads backwards. This whole debate was very interesting. Passing butter popcorn if anyone would like some. ;)

ManyRoses
10-18-2012, 05:11 PM
Fantastic post, roast.



What's the point of paying to watch a camgirl when you could be jerking off to the BILLIONS of online tube videos and porn online?
What's the point of paying to watch an amateur camgirl over paying to watch a porn star?

And why are amateur girls as opposed to porn stars so often advertised as adult dating site scams, bringing in the site so much cash?

We look OBTAINABLE.


We are the hot girl guys foster secret crushes on in college.
We are the alluring girl next door who renders him into nervous sweat to even say "hi" to.
The porn star is now so extremely obtainable.
We have become the tempting forbidden.

I agree, but also think that that isn't the crux of it. Guys pay because of the interaction - because we can make them feel special, because we can give them attention!! That's why they come to us, instead of watching porn - they know that porn is filmed by people who are acting for a camera, but we are doing the same/similar things for THEM.

Human connection will always be at the heart of the sex industry - it's why guys will pay strippers for a private dance, when they can get the same view when she is on stage. It's why guys will spend more money to get the gf experience with an escort. It's why the best camgirls are the ones that can keep a guy in pvt for an hour just talking. They want to feel special. Porn will always feel impersonal.

Incantatious
10-18-2012, 05:27 PM
^ Absolutely, Roses! I was more-over trying to make the point of why us amateur girls could be looked upon possibly as more valuable than porn stars in the camming industry rather than cam vs porn as a whole. But then, being talkative, warm, inviting, open, attentive - all these are things that porn stars can be too.. but those very elements (which all emit a kind of "obtainability") are the very reasons that some porn stars cannot make good camgirls, and the reason that some porn stars make exceptionally good camgirls! :)

justanothercamgirl
10-18-2012, 07:09 PM
All I personally know is that the recent changes they made kicked the living shit out of my past placement. :/

Melonie
10-19-2012, 03:03 AM
I thought Manwin bought them out like in January? Was I dreaming?

ManWin bought webcams.com last January ... or sometime around there. That led to a SW thread which speculated that ManWin was now turning their attentions to the adult webcam business segment, and would soon make an effort to acquire a much higher 'profile' webcam host like StreaMates. This thread confirms ( per Mike South ) that earlier speculation about ManWin acquiring StreaMates is no longer speculation but fact.



Human connection will always be at the heart of the sex industry - it's why guys will pay strippers for a private dance

But what about the situation where a club customer has the choice of paying a 'porn star' feature dancer for a private dance versus paying a house dancer for a similar private dance at a similar price ? As a point of fact, lots of strip clubs that book feature dancers will NOT allow the feature dancer to offer private dances between stage performances. There's a REASON for that club policy ... because the house dancers have difficulty selling their usual number of private dances !!!

... I'm not trying to further the argument ... just making a couple of clarifications.

roast
10-19-2012, 11:40 AM
All I personally know is that the recent changes they made kicked the living shit out of my past placement. :/

And hey I get that - it also kicked the shit out of bunch of pornstar and niche performer's placement as well, you know?

Where Im focused on the debate is where it is being said that pornstar/niche performer = more viability and preferential treatment and higher placement and highest earnings on SM or Webcams.com (Im going to keep mentioning Webcams.com since this is about Manwin), it just isnt. If it were adult webmaster forums would be focused on pornstars exclusively or mostly to generate better ad revenue, and outside of a few cases (pornstars with solid online followings) - people arent.

I agree sites want to offset bandwidth costs which results in higher placement for those who can absorb it. That assessment I agree with 100%. But making a correlation between the inability to do this (ie, internet and equipment) and being a medicore earner on SM is ... shortsighted. It also takes in threads of people complaining as fact when that is again selective data.

Myself as an example: on SM within a handful of days of starting my placement was pretty high. I dont have an undercover following or anything and earnings wise at that point there was no reason for this, haha just being real, itd change but largely I was couched between two earning giants. But my middling ass was still up there. This was pre "changes" but back then I had the resources to offset costs (i7, a server, a mindlessly expensive internet connection). So, the offseting bandwidth theory is (anecdotally) spot-on. I mean, bandwidth is why some indie listing sites have monthly or yearly subscriptions, it makes sense. But the next step of this theory is just strange.

In the immediate future really where 'marginal' cam performers should be the most concerned is in videos of them going viral, doing illegal stuff and getting sued legitimately or by ppl riled up enough, studio bullshit, or possibly dealing with license stuff if youre in LA County (or anywhere else that regulates camming). Not the front page of SM turning into a contracted pornstar bonanza. There is no day Ive been on SM or Webcams.com where girls next door or amateurs dont dominate the first few rows, so I dont understand this part of the theory at all.

Fridays
10-19-2012, 12:10 PM
what I dont understand why is that my customer- friend on SM ( lol wrote mfc before) tells me that there was another model placed right before me , in his favorites... Im the only one in his favorites, and he sent me a screen show to prove, I was NOT FIRST in his list anymore..
and this was yesterday.
she was not a porn star.

roast
10-19-2012, 12:13 PM
Melonie, I get where your head is at - but, girl objectivism isnt objectivist if it fails to be objective. Lol just sayinnnnn

Melonie
10-19-2012, 02:19 PM
^^^ LOL you're absolutely correct.

Again I'm not trying to further the argument. And I'll admit that right now it's way too 'early' to do much more than speculate in regard to the actual future impact on Streamates of the ManWin take-over. With SW readers generally taking the position of """ until it's proven to me that certain changes ARE going to happen, it's business as usual """ there's no point in discussing theoreticals.

I'm content to table the subject for 6 months, since I'm now 'officially retired' thus I no longer have any personal 'skin in the game' ( pun intended ) where Streamates is concerned. By then, the actual nature of ManWin's changes at Streamates ( or lack thereof ) should be factual.

sweetgapeach
10-26-2012, 02:01 PM
Not sure if this is the place for this....BUT I was just on Streamate looking around and WOW!! The traffic is crazy for a friday afternoon....top girls with up to 600+ in the rooms, BBW girls with 75-100 in the rooms....not just the tv show spot either. The traffic is crazy insane so if Manwin did purchase Streamate, then WOW maybe this is a positive for ALL us girls! It really made me wish it was not that time of the month for me!! I wanna log right in!! Get it girls!!

SarahTime
10-26-2012, 02:03 PM
Not sure if this is the place for this....BUT I was just on Streamate looking around and WOW!! The traffic is crazy for a friday afternoon....top girls with up to 600+ in the rooms, BBW girls with 75-100 in the rooms....not just the tv show spot either. The traffic is crazy insane so if Manwin did purchase Streamate, then WOW maybe this is a positive for ALL us girls! It really made me wish it was not that time of the month for me!! I wanna log right in!! Get it girls!!

Just as an FYI... the room count you are seeing is INCLUDING "free" account users who don't have a credit card on file and can't chat in the "guest chat" window like everyone else, nor can they pitch in for shows unless they upgrade their account so they are not "free" users. So, while you might see 600 in a room.... probably AT LEAST half are "free account" users with no current ability to put in for a show.

So my point being, you might see traffic.... doesn't mean it's PAYING traffic.....

sweetgapeach
10-26-2012, 02:07 PM
^^DUH I know that....but still, the numbers are greatly rising, so more potential Sarah is all I am saying. Not trying to start a negativity debate, just thought it was worth noting, is all.

SarahTime
10-26-2012, 02:08 PM
Um.... I'm not trying to start a negative debate so I don't really know what your reaction is for.

I'm trying to point out to others to keep it in perspective.

Example: popular girl in the top row currently doing a gold show, 300 in her room, $250 goal..... one minute left...... she's at $19. $19 with 300 in her room. Obviously her show cancelled.

Keep it in perspective, is all I'm saying. More traffic doesn't exactly always mean more potential. Take a look a site like Live Jasmin for instance... we all know how much traffic and how little potential that site has.

EDIT: Another example.... girl in the top spot 600 people in her room.... I've been watching her topless in free chat for 15 minutes now to see if this traffic is going to make a difference, as I happened to be watching before you posted this because I also noticed the numbers.... and NOT A SINGLE PRIVATE this whole time I've been watching. None. SO......... that's all I'm saying lol

Incantatious
10-26-2012, 02:16 PM
I feel I should make this a separate topic in and of itself, (or put it in the Streamate thread maybe), but Sarah's post made me feel this was relevant here..

If you saw this happen tonight, when I was on about an hour ago, to everyone it showed that I had 200+ members in my room. In actual fact (to my eyes in the actual chatting window) it showed me more like 20 guys... O_O

Something appears to be VERY wrong with the way guests are being shown tonight.

sweetgapeach
10-26-2012, 02:19 PM
I get where you are coming from, I saw it too. I just got all happy with seeing MFC type numbers on Streamate, made me all hopeful on a friday. Sorry if my 'duh' offended. Moved and unpacked all week, then BAM period a week and a half early. So I was just looking around and was all shocked with the numbers.

Anyway, hope to see us all banking off the new traffic soon! We gotta convert 'em all!

SarahTime
10-26-2012, 02:20 PM
I feel I should make this a separate topic in and of itself, (or put it in the Streamate thread maybe), but Sarah's post made me feel this was relevant here..

If you saw this happen tonight, when I was on about an hour ago, to everyone it showed that I had 200+ members in my room. In actual fact (to my eyes in the actual chatting window) it showed me more like 20 guys... O_O

Something appears to be VERY wrong with the way guests are being shown tonight.

Do you have "free chat" enabled? Where you have a 3rd chat window below what we normally consider to be "free chat" (which is actually called "guest chat")

If so it will look to you like you have 20 in "guest chat" but possibly 180 in "free chat", which are the users without cards I was talking about. You can actually see these people if you expand the window.

If you DON'T have free chat enabled, and don't show 3 separate chat windows on your screen.... then your guess is as good as mine as to what's up! lol :)

Incantatious
10-26-2012, 02:25 PM
Do you have "free chat" enabled? Where you have a 3rd chat window below what we normally consider to be "free chat" (which is actually called "guest chat")

If so it will look to you like you have 20 in "guest chat" but possibly 180 in "free chat", which are the users without cards I was talking about. You can actually see these people if you expand the window.

If you DON'T have free chat enabled, and don't show 3 separate chat windows on your screen.... then your guess is as good as mine as to what's up! lol :)

Agg so sorry to derail here! I've never had free chat enabled... so not sure if for some reason it just fudged out tonight for some reason. Thing that makes me think it was a problem with SM is because I saw another girl showing 200+ guests in her room, with like no one tipping or anything.. Just seems odd. I'll check it out my end though! Many thanks! x

Lexilexxx
10-26-2012, 09:29 PM
Agg so sorry to derail here! I've never had free chat enabled... so not sure if for some reason it just fudged out tonight for some reason. Thing that makes me think it was a problem with SM is because I saw another girl showing 200+ guests in her room, with like no one tipping or anything.. Just seems odd. I'll check it out my end though! Many thanks! x



Something's got to be real off.....a glitch of some kind, even a producer asked me "what's going on? there's like 400 people in your room" I was like no, on my end it shows 54.

CammiStar
10-27-2012, 02:07 AM
Yea, as far as the room count, there were some real glitches tonight. I was watching my room and it said I had over 300. And I had 53 people, 4 of which were free chatters..unless they are starting to count those watching that aren't even logged in, thus they would not show up anywhere on our end.

SarahTime
10-28-2012, 12:39 PM
Mine got up to 850 Friday night. But I asked someone at SM on yahoo messenger if traffic was on crack or what, and he said it's a bug the will have fixed on Monday.

IsobelWren
10-29-2012, 07:25 AM
But what about the situation where a club customer has the choice of paying a 'porn star' feature dancer for a private dance versus paying a house dancer for a similar private dance at a similar price ? As a point of fact, lots of strip clubs that book feature dancers will NOT allow the feature dancer to offer private dances between stage performances. There's a REASON for that club policy ... because the house dancers have difficulty selling their usual number of private dances !!!

... I'm not trying to further the argument ... just making a couple of clarifications.

I've seen this happening in the adult modeling industry and my experience says it's not for what you seem to be implying (that porn stars are always going to be more popular than GND). In modeling, the traveling girls who have been in a lot of magazines/videos/workshops/portfolios put travel notices up when they come through an area. The local girls aren't allowed to put up travel notices because they LIVE there. Producers know the traveling girls are there, while they may be unaware of local girls because they don't see them drawing attention to themselves. Producers have seen traveling girls' work in many different areas and have had their eye on working with said girls for a while. They know that when she's in town it may be the last time they'll be able to shoot with her for years, if ever, so they book her over any local girl. If they're even aware of the local girl, they know she lives there and they could find her any time, so they book the traveling girl. I've noticed this happening with my friends and myself.

So it's the same kind of thing with porn stars, scarcity brings more interest as long as the "commodity" sought after is scarce. How many days is that porn star going to be in the club? One, maybe two. The guy knows he can go to the club and see April, Micala and Destiny any day, but when will he ever have another chance to see Big Name Porn Star? I guarantee you that if said porn star moved there permanently she'd quickly see her earnings drop off.

Your Evil Twin
10-29-2012, 05:27 PM
I read this thread and what it said to me was, "Put some money away for a rainy day and work on an exit strategy." Whether that exit strategy means a vanilla job or another cam site is a personal choice. Live in the present but make considerations for the future. Maybe I need to be saving up money for a new computer.

SarahTime
10-29-2012, 08:21 PM
I saw over 1100 in somebody else's room. it's not free chatters, my bf got my room up to 815, not even trying most of the time I was on. A lot of it was him just refreshing the page over and over, while logged in. I have geo restrictions and it didn't count free chatters. It was just like it would add one everytime a member with a cc joined the room, and on the member end the 'anonymous' users wouldn't leave even when they really did.

btw this only worked with his little eye closed. when it was open, it didn't work. how strange?

pretty funny, I saw you there with 800 plus. we had a nice laugh about it :D

I really don't see the harm in the bug anyway. so what if it shows too many?

Once I got over 800, my cam started blacking out, had to restart.

I dont think that's what it's doing... I just tried that theory in a room and it didn't work. I'm just going off what I was told by someone high up at SM... and I prefer not to "name drop" who that is. Also, if it's just increasing the number by refreshing and not actually adding viewers why would your cam black out? There's no extra demand being put on it.... so that doesn't add up.

Anyway, glad you had a nice laugh about my traffic.... although I'm not sure why you would be laughing about it???

DiamondCupcakes
10-30-2012, 05:23 PM
I had more traffic today then I have ever had and most of the tops girls I saw today had 70+ people i their room today. I had 800+ and it was during the day (not their peak hours). So idk. Weird side note, I only saw about 150 people in my room via my view. About 80 paid and a couple free but when looking at my stream it said a lot more. Weird right?
But on another note I heard the rumor about Manwin isn't true.

And for what its worth I don't put us in the same category as good ole fashioned porn. I agree that we are a completely different experience then I pre recorded video and even though we share many similarities, our market is different. Guys love to talk to a person, play games with us in our rooms, and feel like we are connecting with them. You cant get that from a porn. It shows with all the freebie traffic we get from tube sites. A lot (not all) of the guys that come from there will perv and never get an account. Eventually they go back to their tube site and wank their willies ;-) The ones that want something more, will look for that kind of experience . I feel like the longer you cam the more this becomes apparent. I know the regulars that make up a majority of my income would NEVER settle for just another porn. They pay more and they get more. Im not threatened by tube site. They are a nuisance though =/

I'll stop ranting and say that I heard someone made this rumor up to cause negative buzz for SM and SM's employees say its bs.....IDK. I feel like this could go either way. They have every reason to lie to those asking but it also may just be gossip. I think they sold or some major change was made because traffic is up a lot (income only slightly though).

DiamondCupcakes
10-30-2012, 05:26 PM
I dont think that's what it's doing... I just tried that theory in a room and it didn't work. I'm just going off what I was told by someone high up at SM... and I prefer not to "name drop" who that is. Also, if it's just increasing the number by refreshing and not actually adding viewers why would your cam black out? There's no extra demand being put on it.... so that doesn't add up.

Anyway, glad you had a nice laugh about my traffic.... although I'm not sure why you would be laughing about it???

Ok that makes a lot of sense. Cause I did not see the 800 ppl on my end. Glitch or intentional? Maybe theyre doing this to get the girls or guys hyped lol. I dont think the counter was right though =/ tbh

bombassbitch
10-30-2012, 11:02 PM
I dont think that's what it's doing... I just tried that theory in a room and it didn't work. I'm just going off what I was told by someone high up at SM... and I prefer not to "name drop" who that is. Also, if it's just increasing the number by refreshing and not actually adding viewers why would your cam black out? There's no extra demand being put on it.... so that doesn't add up.That's weird it didn't work for you. It only worked for me that particular way, no other way. When my bf opened his eye, the "viewers" would just stay the same as he refreshed. The only way it would bump my "viewers" up was when he logged in AND turned his eye invisible, no other way whatsoever. logged out and logged in with open eye did not bump viewers up when he refreshed the page. I have geo restrictions on, not sure if that was part of it though.

Why would my cam black out? Not really sure, but it was probably because I was on about 8 hours. SM usually fucks up when I've been on that long, then I have to restart.

Anyway, glad you had a nice laugh about my traffic.... although I'm not sure why you would be laughing about it???I was laughing at how all the girls were showing hundreds more people than were really there, and it showed you number one. Just thought the whole scenario was funny, and that it was ironic because I saw your posts here beforehand.

temptingmodel
10-31-2012, 09:56 AM
Usually girls in the number one spot are holding a TV Broadcast ....

DiamondCupcakes
10-31-2012, 11:19 AM
Yup yup