View Full Version : Spearmint Rhino Must Stop Charging Fees
Eric Stoner
12-04-2012, 12:44 PM
I think we are all getting a little ahead of ourselves. Spearmint Rhino settled the suit, so there was no ruling and, hence, no legal precedent has been set for other courts to rely upon. The money involved was not a large sum given the scope of SR's worldwide operations, which I have no doubt factored heavily into SR's decision to settle. Also, SR already has a corporate structure in place to deal with employer/employee administrative requirements so, at most, this will likely cause them to add a little head count to process the additional work.
Since most clubs are standalone entities, most of these cases would need to be handled in state courts. Massachusetts is a little unique in that its laws relating to the definition of Independent Contractor are so restrictive that, in reality, very few people can qualify. For this reason, MA strip clubs are in an almost impossible situation in attempting to label a dancer as an IC.
If these suits stood as much of a chance of success in other states as they do in places like MA and CA then I think we would have already seen litigation in state courts across the country. And while I can see the threat of litigation changing the way that some clubs operate, I suspect that there are a lot of clubs out there that are moving in the opposite direction by carefully assessing their operations to ensure that they do not treat dancers as "employees" within the meaning of their particular states' statutes.
I really don't think that we are going to see any wholesale structural changes in the industry anytime soon, at least outside of a few of the more liberal states and perhaps with a some of the corporate chains.
There is no doubt that certain states ( e.g. Cali. and Mass. ) are more fertile than others ( Texas , Florida ) for these type of suits.
Btw, what's the latest with the suit against Rick's ? Hasn't gone anywhere in two years afaik.
Melonie
12-05-2012, 04:03 AM
Spearmint Rhino settled the suit, so there was no ruling and, hence, no legal precedent has been set for other courts to rely upon
true that the case wound up being settled. Not true that Federal Judge's opinions / cites of relevancy of specific federal and state statutes weren't published.
charlotte.
12-05-2012, 06:00 AM
these suits aren't all bad. I agree they are mostly bad news for working dancers but they arent entirely bad.
the main positive result of suits like these is that clubs wont be able to charge fees anymore. I have worked at clubs that have been forced away from the fee system. most of these clubs still have a base cut but they will only take it if they have documented that you made it. for example, if your house fee is $100 but you only did $60 worth of dances, the club can only take $60. this means that the dancers can never leave in the negative. this may not seem like a big deal at clubs where the house fee is $15 or when they cap the amount of girls, but when you work at a club that charges $200+ and 40 extra girls show up on the last day of a month and its raining...its a very big deal. I have even worked at a few clubs that werent allowed to take more than 50%, so if the base is $100 and I made $60, then they can only take $30.
this has also gotten rid of mandatory tips. all tips are voluntary and the staff is technically not allowed to harass girls for tips. again, this definitely protects dancers on bad shifts.
Im not saying these suits are great because they arent, just providing some perspective that they are not all gloom and doom.
stripperMBA
01-03-2013, 01:53 PM
Babydolls Dallas gave the dancers new contracts to sign with new rules they got rid of the 11 to 5 shift for working moms. They are now requiring everyone to work an 8 hour shift or pay 16 dollars an hour to make up the difference. Dancers are also now required to work three shifts a week and must pay 25 dollars for a scheduled shift they do not work. House fees have also gone up, although in the contract they no longer call them house fees. they now call it set fees. if a dancer comes in later like after 9 pm the house fee ranges from 65 to 73 on up. Here is the case that the Babydolls AKA Duncan Burch clubs are facing http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/09/dallas-stripper-claims-club-stiffed-her/ .
So dancers still must pay housefees. So not much has changed at Babydolls except the club quality. It concerns me that the management spent all this time getting these new contracts and having everyone sign them. But nothing is ever done to improve conditions inside the club. Mold in dressing room, several pimps always sitting in club, car breakins in parking lot, floor guys hooking up customers with extras girls, more frequent cases of custies refusing to pay for dances and a decreased quality of customers coming into the club. But these issues continue to be ignored, and perhaps on some level poor working conditions in clubs are leading dancers to sue for house fees. I can also see how high house fees in high cost of living areas may also lead to dancers doing this. On the other hand a dancer has the right to choose the club she works at, and the right to leave a club. Does anyone have an view on this?
I myself have begun to travel to dance and I would prefer to remain a independent contractor right now. I really do not know if being paid an hourly wage and being an employee would make me more money. Perhaps clubs would just find a way to take the money from dancers some other way. As many clubs see dancers as just another source on income.
michele11
01-06-2013, 02:38 PM
^ exactly ALL these suits are going to do is make the clubs tsake more from us! Any dancer who thinks this will benefit the industry must not be a money maker or have been in the business very long!
simone87
01-06-2013, 10:19 PM
my club has decided to make us all employees :( im very annoyed and fearful as this is one of the last clubs in mass who doesn't require that. they upped the dance price, eliminated table dances or anything where the club does not make any profit. oh and they are still charging house fees. i have so many questions for them they are not answering yet because it hasn't gone into effect and im kind of freaking out. this blows.
michele11
01-06-2013, 10:58 PM
^That sucks but my point being made again!
yoda57us
01-11-2013, 09:18 PM
my club has decided to make us all employees :( im very annoyed and fearful as this is one of the last clubs in mass who doesn't require that. they upped the dance price, eliminated table dances or anything where the club does not make any profit. oh and they are still charging house fees. i have so many questions for them they are not answering yet because it hasn't gone into effect and im kind of freaking out. this blows.
It's going to get harder and harder to find a club in Mass that isn't planning on making this change. There have already been too many lawsuits lost by club owners in the commonwealth. Eliminating table dances seems a bit counterproductive but I don't know where you are working. I'd be willing to bet they will come up with a way for you to sell private dances and for them to get a cut.
Good luck. As I've said many times in these threads, I don't see any upside for the dancers in this...
simone87
01-11-2013, 09:39 PM
Eliminating table dances seems a bit counterproductive but I don't know where you are working. I'd be willing to bet they will come up with a way for you to sell private dances and for them to get a cut.
Good luck. As I've said many times in these threads, I don't see any upside for the dancers in this...
yeah, they upped the 20 dollar dances to 25 so that they get the 5, and they offer the 2 for 50 in a private booth and obviously pocket the ten. i think they cut the table dances because they knew that no customer would pay over ten and that no dancer would do on for under that amount so as it didn't profit them they just cut it out. im concerned because they now have a record of every dance we've done, are they going to report that to the IRS? they told us we would be put on the books as waitresses, but tons of girls say they will quit because they want nursing degrees and they fear they won't be hired because of this now being on their record. im SO pissed at the dancers who sued. they just fucked this up for the rest of us! i see no upside whatsoever :(
michele11
01-12-2013, 11:48 AM
^ Right and probably 80% of these stupid bitches are retired and got around 1000 at most. The ONLY ones to benefit from these idiotic suits are the LAWYERS!
yoda57us
01-12-2013, 08:58 PM
yeah, they upped the 20 dollar dances to 25 so that they get the 5, and they offer the 2 for 50 in a private booth and obviously pocket the ten. i think they cut the table dances because they knew that no customer would pay over ten and that no dancer would do on for under that amount so as it didn't profit them they just cut it out. im concerned because they now have a record of every dance we've done, are they going to report that to the IRS? they told us we would be put on the books as waitresses, but tons of girls say they will quit because they want nursing degrees and they fear they won't be hired because of this now being on their record. im SO pissed at the dancers who sued. they just fucked this up for the rest of us! i see no upside whatsoever :(
I'm not an expert but I know a few girls in Mass clubs who have gone through this. They are on the books as servers and get what is know as a servers minimum wage-a bit less than $3.00 an hour in Mass. As a tipped employee you are expected to declare your tip income to the IRS. The club is not responsible for tracking or reporting any CASH tips that you get, Once you are on the books the club can't report your private dance income to the IRS unless they collect it from the customer and pay it to you in the form of salary, bonus, etc. They would, at that point, have to do a full withholding of state, federal and SS taxes on the earnings as well conform to various state and federal regulations regarding workman's comp insurance etc. They would also have to declare that five bucks they are collecting on every dance as business income. I know a girl who dances at a club in Central Mass where the dancers have been on the books for almost two years. The club makes THOUSANDS of dollars a day in dance fees. No way they are reporting that to the IRS. I'm not a tax expert, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but it's doubtful that the club will start reporting your dance income to the IRS. That being said, once you are on the books you are subject to an IRS tax audit pretty much whenever they feel like it. I'm not going to play chicken little here and say that the IRS is immediately going to start going after every dancer that is newly on the books but, if you are not already filling a tax return as an entertainer, now might be a good time to think about it...
Yes, this whole thing is a giant suck pill for dancers who go to work every day, bust their asses to make good money, and actually understand what dancing is all about...
simone87
01-12-2013, 09:56 PM
thanks yoda!! answered a lot of my questions that my manager keeps avoiding. yeah, i know my club and i can guarantee you this will give them an excuse to brow beat us even more now that we are their official 'employees' and they pay us 2.75 an hour, although we are still required to pay them 70-100 bucks in house fees a night! yeah, idk how they're getting away with that crap. i will definitely be doing my taxes this year, i didn't want my name anywhere near the IRS in regards to dancing but i don't want to be audited. im also wondering how making dancers employees will effect walk-ins, travelling dancers, and girls who don't earn the club much money now that they are paying them.
Melonie
01-13-2013, 04:19 AM
^^^ actually, being classified as a tipped minimum wage employee puts dancers between a 'rock and a hard place'. As employees, you are legally obligated to report all tip income, i.e. money received directly from customers for any reason, versus money paid out to you by the club, through the club's employee payroll system i.e. turn all money received from customers over to the club ... which the club in turn is supposed to add to your paycheck after withholding estimated taxes. But this increases the club's cost of providing employee worker's comp and unemployment coverage, plus increases the 'employer's share' of SSI taxes the clubowner has to pay based on a higher reported income by the employee dancer, so many clubs typically won't allow this. So on the one hand if the employee dancer tries to claim the amount of employee tip income that she actually earned ( but didn't / wasn't allowed to report through the club ) in order to establish a verifiable income, the high proportion of 'unreported tip income' versus 'wages / salary' income appearing on her 1040 will most likely draw audit attention. If, on the other hand, she tries to claim these tip earnings as 'independent contractor' income, she's technically flirting with fraud since, by definition, a dancer can't be an employee and an independent contractor business at the same time in the same club !!! And the way the law is written, in both cases it will be the employee dancer, and not the employer clubowner, who is legally at fault for the improper tax reporting !!!
For travelling dancers, they are usually still treated as independent contractors ... provided that their 'appearance' in the employee dancer club is a 'one shot deal' a la a feature booking.
As for girls who don't earning the club much money, they will now effectively be subsidized by the other employee dancers who DO earn the club a lot of money. Obviously they also may 'cost' the club ( via disability and unemployment insurance premiums plus employer's share of SSI taxes ) more than they are earning for the club if an honest accounting were to be done. A 'smart' clubowner would fire non-productinve employee dancers ... but not every clubowner is 'smart', and some clubowners do receive 'valuable services' from some dancers who aren't ECONOMICALLY productive too !!!
FireAngelAnna
04-22-2013, 09:40 PM
Many clubs in my area have had lawsuits recently. The club I just joined now has a contract and waiver you sign which clearly defines IC vs employee. They now don't charge fees for no call, no show or anything else. They negotiate with the IC to create a schedule they can both work with, which I think is great. They also don't charge a house fee anymore or tip-out. They now have two separate charges to the customer: a room fee and an entertainment fee. The room fee goes to the club and the entertainment fee goes to the dancer. It is a fair split IMO for the price sets. I have worked in other IC based employment and this is pretty standard and fair (although I'm pretty sure as an IC, a dancer could negotiate the "entertainment fee" to a different amount). Yes, it does create some problems with the club not being able to wield the power of the almighty house-fee to control unruly behavior (or be totally abusive!), but it seems legit and doesn't ruin money for everyone and it appears we get to use the stage for free, seeing as there's no stage fee /shrug (I'm guessing this is because it's possible to never get any money from the stage/they aren't charging customers two fees to see the stage). And best of all the dancers still have control over, typically, when they work and how they work (within legal limits). They do have an employee option but it is as feared: the house gets pretty much everything and the dancer only keeps tips (like from the stage) and a tipped-employee wage. There is a club near the one I'm at that does the employee thing now. I am curious to see how it works for them. I know that the majority of their dancers left. But that could be for any reason, including their recent remodel.
Just thought I'd post this to help stifle some fears. Let's hope this waiver thingy sticks! I have no idea after googling the lawsuit if it is settled. I'm thinking it wasn't since they seem to be emphasizing that they are IC only. The other club that is now employee-only did settle their suit and those are the results. It's too bad because I really liked the layout and atmosphere in the now employee club. Oh well.