View Full Version : Why I'm currently earning LESS than minimum wage camming, and STILL love my job...
SarahTime
12-09-2012, 05:26 PM
Ohh thank you so, so much Sarah! My camming career so far has been very erratic, but that is likely largely due to external influences and issues rather than just the sites themselves. There's always usually a reason for why these things happen. I have blamed my net and my lack of consistency for the most part. I need to move house again so I'm in a place where BT Infinity (super-fast fibre optic broadband) is enabled, otherwise I am stuck with low upload speed because I cannot change my contract.
I have started to use that I ever made it to $100 per hour as a confidence boost in itself rather than a means of putting myself down or thinking "Well fuck! I really went from hero to zero didn't I?" I comfort myself by thinking about how my net has never been above 1 mbps in my whole camming career - maybe I can excel even $100 per hour one day when living circumstances etc are all better! After all, it's always possible for everyone to make positive alterations to their well-being and living circumstances, and a lovely thing about this job is that generally the better those two things get, the more likely you are to see those positive changes reflect in earnings. Like when girls change their rooms up, tidy up the composition of their stream, it can make a lot of difference.
My god, you girls are good to me. I feel enriched to have your care; and I'm still here for if ever you need mine. <3
I just wanted to add... try not to get stuck in the "waiting game", I find that it can REALLY damper your mood and how you feel over all. What I mean is, you are waiting to be able to move into a better place with faster internet, so try really hard to not get stuck just putting things in life on hold and waiting, waiting, waiting. I struggle with this SO MUCH. I find that I spend so much of my time WAITING for things, rather than living RIGHT NOW. It's hard to break the cycle once it gets going, but it's so worth it. I learned about this and realized just how much waiting I do after I read The Power of Now. Maybe you should check it out?
I'm currently waiting for my lease to be up in this house so we can move into a bigger and nicer house in my kids school zone. When we moved here we were really down on our luck, so it's in a not so great neighbor hood and the place is big enough but still feels small considering what I'm used to living in. The school my kids were supposed to go to has AWFUL ratings, they are currently in probation status with the state, so luckily we were able to transfer them to a nicer school in the neighbor hood we really want to be in. So now that things are going well for us, I'm just waiting waiting waiting for this stupid lease to be up. 6 more months. I keep telling myself that, 6 more months then it will be great!!! I find myself putting things off or not doing things I normally would because I'm so busy WAITING for what I want to happen.
I'm not trying to thread jack, just trying to illustrate that you are definitely not alone in your situation be it what you are earning, how you are feeling, or how you are living. Try to get out of the waiting cycle and see if that helps some too! :)
Incantatious
12-09-2012, 05:31 PM
Oh wow Sarah you are completely right! I play the waiting game a LOT!! I'll definitely check the book out as it sounds like the kind of thing I should read. I am glad you got your kids in a better School! <3
Must live in the nowww! Welcome to my post-it note wall collection of motivational quotes, hehe! XD
Smurfette
12-09-2012, 05:42 PM
^^ The entire audiobook is up on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JCgAKCtIzE
I HIGHLY recommend it!!
SarahTime
12-09-2012, 06:17 PM
^^ The entire audiobook is up on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JCgAKCtIzE
I HIGHLY recommend it!!
NICE! I bought the audio book because I felt that listening it was a lot more effective than reading it. That's great that it's on youtube for free!
LAChloe
12-09-2012, 06:42 PM
Remember English is not Fridays first language. I think she was trying to be encouraging in her own way.
GlamourRouge
12-09-2012, 07:20 PM
Remember English is not Fridays first language. I think she was trying to be encouraging in her own way.
I think also, and most importantly, its easier to misinterpret what someone else is saying when english isn't your first language.
Huuuuuge difference between "I'm happy making like $7/hour on cam!" and "I have medical issues so I cannot put in the 20, 30, 40, 50 hours a week I should be in order to earn good money, but I still make a decent hourly $$$." I think we would all agree that #1 will kill the industry, but #2 is a lot of people's situation with camming.
SarahTime
12-09-2012, 07:25 PM
Remember English is not Fridays first language. I think she was trying to be encouraging in her own way.
And she was drunk..... haha ;) Love you Fridays <3
Smurfette
12-09-2012, 07:27 PM
Yeah, I think Fridays was just trying to be encouraging in a 'tough love' kind of way... that's how I interpreted it.
justanothercamgirl
12-09-2012, 07:34 PM
Remember English is not Fridays first language. I think she was trying to be encouraging in her own way.
It isn't? Where the hell have I been? Wow, I somehow manage to miss all the important stuff.
Incantatious
12-09-2012, 08:10 PM
Fridays is very known for her attitude of being very $$$$-focused, very "aim for the top! Accept nothing less!", very motivational and never as straight talking than when you catch her talking about earnings and rates above all things, which leads me to believe that, language-wise, nothing really got misinterpreted about her posts in this thread. However, I can totally appreciate that Fridays was trying to help me in her own way, (maybe the way that best works for her?) and I don't think it's likely that deliberately hurting me was her plan.
I admit I was torn up about her posts though, because I've always been very open about how much I like, admire, and look up to her. It felt so horrible to have my career idol suddenly start 'cracking the whip' on me so to speak, right at the very point in my life when I'm finding it hard to do so much as get out of bed in the morning let alone get on cam.
Different strokes for different folks though. <3 No hard feelings!
LolaBohemia
12-10-2012, 12:55 AM
I feel you here. Completely. I don't make the stellar hourly wage that most cam models do. I work on a site that isn't the best one but it works for me because of what I am able to accomplish and you know what? That's fantastic with me too.
I started camming because of a pain disorder. Every job I had before then I was either fired or treated so badly I left or just couldn't physically handle it. I also have depression and severe anxiety. At least 2-3 days out of every week I'm not doing so great. Camming was my answer and I love that I'm my boss and my earnings are dependent on the effort I put in (well, sometimes...sometimes my site has shit for traffic).
I get where you are coming from. I'm okay with my $25/hr wage PT. Camming has saved me. I was homeless at two points in my life and finally my creativity and personality has paid off in an unconventional way that is working for me and I think that's what you are saying. Do I bust my ass at times? Absolutely. But when I'm unable to, I can still make something which is better than all the years that I made absolutely nothing and fell into a very dark place.
If it works for you and you are happy with it, that's all that matters.
I have fallen on some hard times in my life recently which mean that I spend a great deal of time depressed, anxious, worried, and bed-bound. There's a lot of pressure on me right now, and I am struggling to cope with the weight of what this means for me. I cannot cam long hours. I have bad quality internet. And I struggle keeping my act up. All of this, and I would rather keep this job than anything else.
Why? Because I work a job that still supports me. And it supports me for working a couple of hours every night I have it in me to work.
Any time I feel I can work (which is not that long and not that often), it rewards me hugely for what I do put it.
It doesn't shout at me when I don't get up at a certain time. It doesn't threaten me when I say I can't do Thursday, or Friday, or Saturday... It doesn't tell me anything is over-due. It doesn't make fun of me. If my clients make fun of me, I am still in control. I still have the biggest power of action.
Any other job, I would be fired by now. I could be mocked, made fun of, gossiped about, teased, or discriminated against for the way I am, for the things that hurt me, for having a life (like lives generally are) complicated by relationships, circumstances, difficulties, grievances, mistakes and problems.
When I put my back into it, and I work so hard, that effort keeps me sufficient and stable and comfortable, for months on end. Right now I feel like I am in the gutter where my life is concerned. I am finding things so hard. But all the same, I know that when I get away from where I am, this job will keep me safe.
Marina Starr
12-10-2012, 06:20 AM
Compassion and empathy is not a language, it's a human feeling. And what makes a good human being is KNOWING when to mind your own business and keeping your mouth close. In this case, step away from the keyboard.
ManyRoses
12-10-2012, 12:11 PM
Warning! Warning! Big-ass post ahead because apparently taking a weekend off means that I miss EVERYTHING!
First off....GIANT BEAR HUGS FOR YOU INCANTATIOUS!! I know what it is like - I have had my issues with depression in the past as well, and camming can be a godsend at times.
The whole "wage comparison" thing blows my mind occasionally - yes, you may be making less than minimum wage in your bad patch - but you wouldn't be ABLE to have a minimum wage job with severe depression (at least, I never could.). When you can't get up in the morning, can't make yourself get out of bed, or shower, or anything....a vanilla minimum wage job just isn't an option. And camming can be the one thing that keeps you afloat.
I have recently been having conversations with a friend of mine who is an escort out of a studio-style place - and we have been chatting about the differences in our work. She makes more money than I do on a per hour basis - although, not by a crazy amount, I realized. Working a 6 hours shift, she probably makes around $600....and a lot of cam girls make that, although I would probably be closer to $400 (not including extra tributes, gifts, phone sex or the sales from clips of recorded shows). She sees it as better because she doesn't have to work regular hours, she just does a shift or two a week, doesn't worry about regulars, and because she knows how hard I have worked over the past year. For her, being able to walk in and make $600 on a first shift makes it "better" because she knew how frustrating it was for me to only be making $20 an hour when I first started. But for me, being able to know that now I have something that will travel with me everywhere, that will continue to rise in profitability, that is dependent on NO ONE but myself, that is not tied to a physical location - well, that makes it "better".
And even if I was making a comparable wage to a vanilla job - not just a minimum wage job, but a fairly average, mid-range job - say in the 40-50K a year range - I would STILL prefer this one. It's a common fallacy when considering the sex industry to assume that it isn't "worth it" if you aren't pulling in hella money easily, every single day. And that just isn't true.
Melonie makes some interesting points, but they are based on the idea that you are definitely going to lose future employment...yet she is a case in point of a sex worker who earned enough to simply retire! With camming, many women work well into their 50s with no loss of earnings, so a lot of the time, the loss of a vanilla job simply doesn't matter. And even for those women that DO want to move into another industry, the majority will not be affected - you can do all kinds of other things after working in the industry. Not everything, but it's not as if you are removing yourself from all vanilla work for life.
At the end of the day - whatever supports you and makes you happy, honey. I hope that you can get through this and back to earning all the money! xxx
VoluptiousBriadda
12-10-2012, 12:42 PM
32345
Marina Starr
12-10-2012, 03:45 PM
This! A lot of time girls tend to forget that you're not gonna bank every single day. One day you could make $500 or whatever and next day $50. It's great to make good money but please remember to not put your whole being, self-worth and self-esteem solely base on how much you make. You are still the same person! If you're feeling empty, lonely and depressed, there's no amount of moment that can fix that!
And even if I was making a comparable wage to a vanilla job - not just a minimum wage job, but a fairly average, mid-range job - say in the 40-50K a year range - I would STILL prefer this one. It's a common fallacy when considering the sex industry to assume that it isn't "worth it" if you aren't pulling in hella money easily, every single day. And that just isn't true.
HaydenBlue
12-10-2012, 07:55 PM
Compassion and empathy is not a language, it's a human feeling. And what makes a good human being is KNOWING when to mind your own business and keeping your mouth close. In this case, step away from the keyboard.
Agreed.
I'm really surprised at the "Oh fridays, it's okay <3<3."
Sorry. I've been holding my tongue (ya'll know me, lol) but then I was like O.o when the switch was flipped.
I respect her, she's made some good contributions to this board and is an extremely hard-worker.
But what was said was extremely rude. She basically said, "I don't care how you're feeling. Get over it. Understand?" Zero compassion. And her response of a comment of her being mean, "well the truth is mean. whatever." / "same thing i would have told her sober." Is someone who fully understands what she wrote and has zero guilt of it. Fridays posts a lot on this board, I think she's very smart and we all talk a lot of back and forth with her, and by looking at her thousands of thanks. We all can understand and agree with a lot of what she posts too.
I'm not seeing a language barrier here. That is crap.
Incantatious deserves an apology. Why the hell are we trying sweep that under the rug?
All of us have been in a rough spot - this job has been a lifesaver for some of us. I for one, am extremely thankful for it. When I fall in a dark place/get sick, I can still hold my head out of the water financially. If I was at a normal 9-5 job I would be fired, and then that would put me on what? Disability? This job allows us to still take care of ourselves, we're still independent and then we come back strong as ever and are back to making serious big money. No other job allows us the flexibility, the earning potential and the forgiveness of it. I feel blessed and genuinely love this job, at both my high and low points.
Marina Starr
12-10-2012, 08:10 PM
I wasn't surprised by the "Oh fridays, it's okay <3<3." and I didn't buy the 'English wasn't her first language' crap either. Fridays posts weren't directed at me but it just was hard to read. We're all walking wounded in some ways but we can all be part of the solution by not adding salt to someone else's wound.
Agreed.
I'm really surprised at the "Oh fridays, it's okay <3<3."
Sorry. I've been holding my tongue (ya'll know me, lol) but then I was like O.o when the switch was flipped.
I respect her, she's made some good contributions to this board and is an extremely hard-worker.
But what was said was extremely rude. She basically said, "I don't care how you're feeling. Get over it. Understand?" Zero compassion. And her response of a comment of her being mean, "well the truth is mean. whatever." / "same thing i would have told her sober." Is someone who fully understands what she wrote and has zero guilt of it. Fridays posts a lot on this board, I think she's very smart and we all talk a lot of back and forth with her, and by looking at her thousands of thanks. We all can understand and agree with a lot of what she posts too.
I'm not seeing a language barrier here. That is crap.
Incantatious deserves an apology. Why the hell are we trying sweep that under the rug?
All of us have been in a rough spot - this job has been a lifesaver for some of us. I for one, am extremely thankful for it. When I fall in a dark place/get sick, I can still hold my head out of the water financially. If I was at a normal 9-5 job I would be fired, and then that would put me on what? Disability? This job allows us to still take care of ourselves, we're still independent and then we come back strong as ever and are back to making serious big money. No other job allows us the flexibility, the earning potential and the forgiveness of it. I feel blessed and genuinely love this job, at both my high and low points.
Incantatious
12-10-2012, 10:19 PM
I seriously cannot get over how much warmth, compassion and support you ladies have shown me the past few days off the back of this thread... Truly, I cannot. I just thank my heart out to you all (as ever) <3 I don't know what the Hell I would do without you.
I am trying to type "quietly" right now because my partner is asleep next to me, and I'm still up on my laptop trying to figure out what to do. I am scared because I tried to cam tonight, and I fucked it so, so badly. I got told to "stop begging" on MFC, to which I starting flipping my room off.. (I know, right? Classy? I am doing pretty much everything I used to hate seeing camgirls do myself (that is, the girls who actually were fucking pissed off rather than being dom, etc!)) Then I went to do a GOLD show on SM - I had a nice room going, but not enough to get me half of my $100 target. 2nd try = still no dice. 3rd try = I notice I have a bigger room of guys, so I raise my target up, LOWER the buy-in price as an incentive, and RAISE the time for how long the show goes on for... and had one good reg of mine tell me "Some day I'll pay you to understand this business"... It felt like someone had just dragged my heart down to the pit of my stomach; (it didn't help that that comment was sandwiched between a "tits out now bb" and a "u wet?" - what a combination...) I unplugged my cam and cried for about half an hour. That was the night I meant to make $$$.
For the past 3 hours I've been reading this forum trying to pep myself up. I know my hustle has gone down the drain, as it has been declining since I moved out to this horrible place and all this shit in my life just starting happening. It reflects in my earnings well enough for me to see the pattern. For me to move out of this place, I set myself a bracket of £3000 GBP as a safety measure. That is enough for rent for a couple months, enough to cushion the blow of any gap that may occur in setting up fibre optic broadband (could take a few weeks) for a new apartment, enough to buy basic supplies, enough for a couch and a bed, and anything else we may find we need when we get there. I currently have £1000 GBP saved, and about £310 to live on this week. For the longest time I've just been holding that 1k like my life depends on it, and saying "still not enough..." It's like I can't help it; even when I sleep I get dreams about visiting the atm machine and checking my bank balance hoping I have enough to get out of this pit and start my new life.
My contract for this place ends in February. I wanted to move out sooner because I am finding it so hard here, but at this rate I can't afford to move again. And then of course there is Christmas... I've no idea how I can buy things for people at a time like this. I think it is time I started watching the top row girls on SM again. I remember the days when I just used to spend hours and hours learning from them and wanting to be like them... You know when you tell newcomers to this business about "thick skin"? Mine has pretty much turned to the consistency of ash. All it takes are about 10 mins of no action (not enough tippers, no privates), and some jerk to say something to me that could just make me lose heart and want to log off and start figuring out plan B like my days are numbered and even this is much, much too hard for me.
The last thing I can blame right now, is myself, however stupid that might sound... It is because I know how hard I am trying despite failing so hard. Even so, I know when I talk about how erratically I've been behaving on cam it must just seem like I'm screwing around even, but that I even managed to get on cam at all is an achievement for me. I have even considered getting myself onto some counselling program again or getting my doc to prescribe me something to stop me from just fading back into a depressive oblivion like before I found this job. I can't even say how much I don't want that though. It takes such balls just to work these days.
I still don't want to fuck up my business as a camgirl... I don't want people to equate fits; middle fingers; insults; come-backs upon come-backs; me turning my cam to my wall so they can't see me cry, with my cam-name / online presence. (Lol, maybe I wouldn't mind if I'd have actually marketed myself like that, but how I have marketed myself is VERY different to that persona.) So I have figured out that I will dedicate my time to clip sites. I have found the C4S threads in the verified section so inspirational, and the monthly challenges truly solid, motivational reading. The notion of handling clients in live time is too much for me right now, and it would be unprofessional of me to tell myself to just DO it - just get online, no excuses, no fucking around - treat myself like I just don't get that it breaks me right now? Only for me to crash and burn like I did tonight and potentially taint an otherwise great reputation as a 5-star Streamate model? And all of this is not me saying that camming isn't for me! This apartment, the people I am living with, the mess I am in right now which has all led to this isn't for me - I am not myself right now.
I am so sorry if this post seems hideously self-indulgent (I just had a spike of paranoia about that), but as loads of you likely feel this way too, I don't have anyone else to talk to about any of this who would understand this, and I desperately need some way of articulating my thought-process to save my mind from overloading and to avoid me waking up in the morning like "Can't cam. WTF do I do today to make money?" Clips it is. I feel ready to take it on - I have comfort food, bubble gum, a toilet, wet wipes, and a bedroom messy enough to film a whole hours worth of naked bedroom cleaning... Hell, I'll even do a version where I fucking reverse and speed up that shit so it looks like I'm a crazy bitch making her room untidy on purpose... If I feel super-extra-mega strong, know my hustle, exactly how I'm going to act right down to how to handle wtf will happen if a GS countdown is nearly at half-way in tips, and know that I won't melt if some idiot puts me down, THEN I will get on cam...
As I said before, if I get on cam in the mind-set I was earlier, where I pay my feelings little to NO compassion, it can cause harm and bring my career down. I have made my back-up plan, and I now have something new to look forward to tomorrow. And fuck, for the first time in a long time, I am actually feeling a little excited, rather than scared. (I've been at this post for a good couple of hours now... fucking... wow..) I want to film at least 10 clips for tomorrow (the start of my actual C4S store). That is the goal for the day. And I won't expect much at first, but I know I will be able to keep going at this one - keep filming, keep editing, keep posting those videos... because it won't be like camming where I am live and waiting as long as I have been, sometimes only to be told in some way, how bad I am doing.
I know I'm a good camgirl. Given a stable home life, given good internet, given no background noise from the other people I am living with, given I live with people who respect what I do and don't make crude jokes about it like it's some bullshit silly joke, given I trust those I live with aren't going to case me or my partner any harm, given I have some fucking space to just be... I am not a good camgirl, I'm excellent. And I need to appreciate myself enough to cut myself slack, and know when I should give [cam-name] a little bit of a rest and dedicate my time to something that doesn't reduce me to a half-assed version of a performer who can make damn good bank. I'm not giving up. I'm reserving my strength so that I can bust Streamate in it's cash-filled balls when I come back.
If you have just signed off camming for the night, or if you are camming tonight, tomorrow, this evening, whenever... please feel like a BOSS for doing so. You fucking goddesses. <3
justanothercamgirl
12-11-2012, 12:11 PM
I'm really surprised at the "Oh fridays, it's okay <3<3."
Sorry. I've been holding my tongue (ya'll know me, lol) but then I was like O.o when the switch was flipped.
I respect her, she's made some good contributions to this board and is an extremely hard-worker.
But what was said was extremely rude. She basically said, "I don't care how you're feeling. Get over it. Understand?" Zero compassion. And her response of a comment of her being mean, "well the truth is mean. whatever." / "same thing i would have told her sober." Is someone who fully understands what she wrote and has zero guilt of it.
Agreed. Brain chemistry is a bitch. When I fall down the spirial myself it isn't like I sit and think, "Hey, you know what would be awesome? If I was my own worse enemy today and decide to have crippling depression because hey....I could work if I *really* wanted too but this whole mental illness thing is just an excuse to be lazy."
People who don't suffer from anxiety/depression have no idea how fucking lucky they are. To them, we just need to get off our ass and do it. Its kind of hard to get motivated to 'make that money' and get on cam when you are having serious thoughts of just stepping out into traffic so you don't have to deal with having to waking up again tomorrow morning.
ManyRoses
12-11-2012, 12:33 PM
Incantatious - what a heartfelt post! HUG!
I am so sorry to hear that you had such a crappy night - and I think that you made the right decision. Usually, I would be encouraging you to power on through, just point the cam at your boobs, etc etc, but I really felt it coming through your words - sometimes you just need a break! Don't beat yourself up about it, or assume that all nights are going to be like that...
I think that it is a GREAT idea for you to look at other income streams while you are avoiding the free-chat-demons - there are amazing ideas in the "camming through burn out" thread. Pimp all hell out of that cammodels.com link, film like there is no tomorrow, maybe write some erotica? And pimp hell out of indy stuff!! Get listed, make yourself available for skype, work that non-free-chat option. Just keep the money coming in in other ways.
I am also a HUGE fan of visualisation and meditation (I nearly wrote "masturbation"...you know you are a cam girl when...LOL) as everyone on here knows!!! If you think that your skin is thinning...well, sit for 10 mins a day and visualize it getting thicker! Visualise your cam outfit turning into freaking ARMOR and insults just bounding off it. Visulalize yourself coated in teflon, and nasty people sliding straight off you. Meditate before AND after you cam - focus on negativity leaving you, energy coming to you, focus and happiness coming to you...and then visualize your best day on cam. Don't make it ridiculous (because you want your own brain to believe you!) but think about the best days that you actually HAVE had on cam - picture them in great detail!
And take whatever breaks you need - film clips that crack you up - camp it up so that you feel like you are in a bad 70s porno. Make the job fun, and make it so that you associate that work with fun, and not with feeling down and defeated.
You can absolutely get that old cam persona back! xxx
VoluptiousBriadda
12-11-2012, 01:42 PM
uuuummm ::raises hand timidly:: I just wanted to clarify that when I posted the group hug photo,it wasn't meant as "yay,lets act like everything is all better and brush offensive comments under the rug!hugs!kitties!rainbows,butterflies and camgirl harmony!" I actually posted it for 2 reasons- one being that I wanted to support everyone that had just posted to Incantatious supporting/loving her and telling of their own struggles and the second being that I wanted to put in a quick smile/laugh break there.ya know,when everything gets too serious,its always good to have someone say/post something cute and funny to make everyone smile for a quick sec before the fighting/seriousness resumes.So if I misled anyone,I apologize for being so vague.
I so hope you can get to a better place soon Incantatious,I know how it feels to have absolutely no strength to get out of bed.And its one of the worst feelings in the world.But concentrating on that feeling can exacerbate it tremendously,so Im glad to see you coming up with your back up plan and excited about your clips,it shows you still have will power,motivation,and the strength to carry on regardless,youre just changing up your game a bit (and I sooo feel you there,im hitting my store HARD tonight and tmrw,and staying on top of it from now on) I know you can do it, youre a CAM-BEAST,doesnt make a difference whether its in front of a live audience or a fictional recorded one,its in your hand lady!! And visualization/meditation/affirmations! they really do work! Two thumbs up for what M.R. said! the main thing to remember is just...BELIEVE.when doubt/negativity starts to creep into visualizations,it can bring them down or make them much much harder to work.Read or watch The Secret and The Power of Now,The God Formula etc Anything you can about the Law of Attraction,theres some really interesting scientific proof/facts behind it,that has been gathered for QUITE a long time!
CarmenF
12-12-2012, 04:13 AM
i am extremely happy too. i am a full time student and doing this part time i earn more than average wages here. f the rest.
whirlerz
12-12-2012, 09:49 PM
More hugs to Incanatious, going thru a rough time myself, it sucks. I hope it gets much better for you hun!
foxxyredd33
12-12-2012, 10:11 PM
I find this thread to be extremely brave and heartfelt. I want to say thank you. "Thank you." You dear lady, have courage and heart. I admire you.
Incantatious
12-12-2012, 10:27 PM
Thank you, my dear ladies. And I hope with all my heart that things improve for all of you going through this too.
Marina Starr
12-12-2012, 10:41 PM
It is already better the INSTANT you declare it is better!
Thank you, my dear ladies. And I hope with all my heart that things improve for all of you going through this too.
HunnieBunny
12-12-2012, 10:52 PM
I can relate to you, Incantatious! I've struggled with depression and panic disorder since the age of 14. I've been on and off anti-depressants.....it is a fucking nightmare.
I used to work at a pizza joint over the summer...I was fired after only three weeks simply for the fact that I was DEPRESSED OUT OF MY MIND! And it came across to managers and my coworkers. But in my defense I had already decided that I wanted to cam before I even got the job, I was only working there because I was stuck in my parents house and couldn't cam til school started back up -_-
I'm not depressed all of the time anymore, but there are days when I struggle to even get out of bed to eat, answer the phone, or even shower. Obviously those are the days I don't cam. I am BEYOND thankful for camming! It's putting food on the table for me and is keeping my lights on.....and keeping me in this apartment close by my university and AWAY from my crazy conservative parents. I'm not rolling in dough either lol but I am lucky enough to have a job where I have unlimited vacation days. I know that once I pull myself completely out of this hole my income will improve...it already has :')
My heart goes out to you and if you need to talk I'd love to pm, tweet, whatever. Just know that your life is completely under your control and things WILL get better if you're a good person and you work hard. Everyone has their own unique struggle and for us this is ours.
Marina Starr
12-13-2012, 07:45 AM
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x311/melaniamai/14vs7lljpg.gif
I can relate to you, Incantatious! I've struggled with depression and panic disorder since the age of 14. I've been on and off anti-depressants.....it is a fucking nightmare.
I used to work at a pizza joint over the summer...I was fired after only three weeks simply for the fact that I was DEPRESSED OUT OF MY MIND! And it came across to managers and my coworkers. But in my defense I had already decided that I wanted to cam before I even got the job, I was only working there because I was stuck in my parents house and couldn't cam til school started back up -_-
I'm not depressed all of the time anymore, but there are days when I struggle to even get out of bed to eat, answer the phone, or even shower. Obviously those are the days I don't cam. I am BEYOND thankful for camming! It's putting food on the table for me and is keeping my lights on.....and keeping me in this apartment close by my university and AWAY from my crazy conservative parents. I'm not rolling in dough either lol but I am lucky enough to have a job where I have unlimited vacation days. I know that once I pull myself completely out of this hole my income will improve...it already has :')
My heart goes out to you and if you need to talk I'd love to pm, tweet, whatever. Just know that your life is completely under your control and things WILL get better if you're a good person and you work hard. Everyone has their own unique struggle and for us this is ours.
Fridays
12-13-2012, 06:14 PM
I was thinking for the last few days if I should answer to this or not and ultimately I think I should.
1. I did not mean to hurt anyone;s feelings with the words disgrace and understand.
I was referring to the situation as not being great at all and NOT referring to the person who was in that situation.
2. the personal attacks were quite a shock to me..
After 4000 + posts mostly advice and words of encouragement, its quite sad to see that 1 post written in a " tough-er" manner brings in so much criticism...
3. on a happier note, Im glad my opinion matters that much :D
Toughen up ladies..
toughen up......
TheBrownFox
12-13-2012, 06:35 PM
I was thinking for the last few days if I should answer to this or not and ultimately I think I should.
1. I did not mean to hurt anyone;s feelings with the words disgrace and understand.
I was referring to the situation as not being great at all and NOT referring to the person who was in that situation.
2. the personal attacks were quite a shock to me..
After 4000 + posts mostly advice and words of encouragement, its quite sad to see that 1 post written in a " tough-er" manner brings in so much criticism...
3. on a happier note, Im glad my opinion matters that much :D
Toughen up ladies..
toughen up......
I don't think the models posting on here need to toughen up. They were pretty much in agreement that your "tough love" post was just a tad uncalled for in THIS particular thread. They told you that, and it seems like you took it a bit too personally. This thread wasn't about who's making decent money and who's not. This was a positive, inspirational thread about why Incantatious loves her job, despite the fact that she's not making good money at the moment. She was just reminding all of us the benefits of working from home, while she is well aware of the fact that less than minimum wage is "bad." That's why she titled the thread 'Why I'm currently earning LESS than minimum wage camming and STILL love my job'. You're still a well-respected part of this forum who contributes a lot (we love ya!), but it doesn't mean that everything you post is gonna be 100% agreed with/thanked.
Marina Starr
12-13-2012, 07:00 PM
TheBrownFox,
I cosign with your post wholeheartedly!
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x311/melaniamai/tumblr_ma7qe0iqc41r99q40.gif
I don't think the models posting on here need to toughen up. They were pretty much in agreement that your "tough love" post was just a tad uncalled for in THIS particular thread. They told you that, and it seems like you took it a bit too personally. This thread wasn't about who's making decent money and who's not. This was a positive, inspirational thread about why Incantatious loves her job, despite the fact that she's not making good money at the moment. She was just reminding all of us the benefits of working from home, while she is well aware of the fact that less than minimum wage is "bad." That's why she titled the thread 'Why I'm currently earning LESS than minimum wage camming and STILL love my job'. You're still a well-respected part of this forum who contributes a lot (we love ya!), but it doesn't mean that everything you posted is gonna be 100% agreed with/thanked.
Marina Starr
12-13-2012, 07:08 PM
I sense sarcasm and a lot of attitude in your post! I don't think you're good enough nor qualified to tell anyone to toughen up. I think you're the one that needs to SOFTEN up. You can be tough and still have sensitivity, empathy and compassion.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x311/melaniamai/0OQu6.gif
I was thinking for the last few days if I should answer to this or not and ultimately I think I should.
1. I did not mean to hurt anyone;s feelings with the words disgrace and understand.
I was referring to the situation as not being great at all and NOT referring to the person who was in that situation.
2. the personal attacks were quite a shock to me..
After 4000 + posts mostly advice and words of encouragement, its quite sad to see that 1 post written in a " tough-er" manner brings in so much criticism...
3. on a happier note, Im glad my opinion matters that much :D
Toughen up ladies..
toughen up......
Incantatious
12-13-2012, 08:01 PM
I was thinking for the last few days if I should answer to this or not and ultimately I think I should.
1. I did not mean to hurt anyone;s feelings with the words disgrace and understand.
I was referring to the situation as not being great at all and NOT referring to the person who was in that situation.
2. the personal attacks were quite a shock to me..
After 4000 + posts mostly advice and words of encouragement, its quite sad to see that 1 post written in a " tough-er" manner brings in so much criticism...
3. on a happier note, Im glad my opinion matters that much :D
Toughen up ladies..
toughen up......
If you don't / won't / can't understand how your posts could in any way be construed as incredibly hurtful - being in this situation and trying to pull whatever grain of positivity I can from the shit I am in right now, only to get you stagger in on me with a wine bottle and pretty much demand that I get my act together and say these earnings that I live by right now are a disgrace - then I'm sorry to say after all of the incredibly helpful advice and support you have given, (which all is still just as valuable and appreciated no matter what), but your opinion of me, of how you think I should be working, doesn't matter that much to me anymore. It kind of can't anymore, because if I let that penetrate me, I would be worse off than I already am...
The little money I am making, I am incredibly thankful for. As long as I have enough to get by right now, I am happy. I won't be encouraged to feel bad for that. "Tough" should not be confused with "insensitive" - there is a great deal of difference, likely made harder to see the difference if you're drunk.. Toughen up? I am "tough" to have made it this far, to keep a roof over my head, to keep my room heated, lit and connected to the internet, and maintain my sanity strong enough in this thoroughly oppressive living environment not to scream my lungs out, run away from my problems, or give up all hope entirely.
Just as there is a difference between giving support and advice, (what this forum is intended for), and playing boss to one another. The attitude is so, so different. Can you imagine if we all treated one another that way here? It would be horrific. But it isn't. Instead I have been moved to tears by the overwhelming support this thread has been filled with. You surely ought to know that despite the high ratings your posts get, you still aren't anyone's boss but your own, just like all the rest of us. NONE of us are qualified to just go all 'boss mode' on each other and I don't think ANY of us - me, you, or anyone here - deserve that.
Not too long ago, you might remember giving me constructive critique whilst I was streaming, which I very gratefully received. I welcomed pretty much anything you could say about me, my stream, every detail, everything... I was, and still am, very thankful for all you said, and for your time. But, and I say this with the best of intention: I feel like it has gone to your head; it's like you're still stuck in "critique mode" where you feel you have authority over whoever you give advice to.
Whether any part of you at all feels like that rings true, the truth is that you never asked to be put on a pedestal, and I feel guilty for having done so. I will make an added effort to watch myself in future if ever I find myself excessively praising or putting excessive faith in someone as much as I have you.
I still don't completely understand why you're full of this attitude when I'm at my weakest, or why I should deserve to be on the receiving end of it.
But I know that if you, or anyone else, spoke to you the way you spoke to me, I would have your back, and I would say that you deserved better than to be spoken to like that. I would also want you know you can be honest here (and that is pretty much guaranteed in the verified section) if you yourself are going through hard times. I know that surely all the support given to me would be given to you if you are struggling yourself. I still hope you're doing well.
sammii
12-13-2012, 08:35 PM
Tell someone with depression to "toughen up." Great advice. /sarcasm.
bubblegumbitch
12-14-2012, 09:36 AM
incantatious you ARE a tough woman to struggle with all that you have and still trying to find ways to push past it, that is SUPERWOMAN strength right there! you are my hero ma'am!
thank you for being brave and sharing your deep heartfelt experience. i don't know any veterans including myself who would admit to periods like this. there have been plenty of my periods where all i could do was pull out minimum wage. i know i can personally relate to your struggles and failures with camming but the fact that we have not given up, the fact that we are strong enough to push through to make it shows how much we are devoted to our work and love it. WE WILL GET THERE! i am still fine tuning my streams, my hustle, my overall game-plan. it's not easy which is why alot of girls split. i know free chat can bring out the worst in us at times and i am glad ur taking a break and pushing through with clips. i know i have been doing alot better when i have different projects going on in the same day that way i am not always doing the same thing but it helps keep me consistent. (maybe that's my ADHD? who knows. but it works for me) just keep ur head up girly! :)
TheBrownFox
12-14-2012, 09:49 AM
Another reason to love our jobs:
Moments like right now when we're not in the right frame of mind to get on cam, due to something that's troubling us, so we can choose to get online LATER when it's a better time. A former high school classmate that we all loved and admired (our class president and Homecoming King) has passed away, and I just saw his obituary and picture. :(
justanothercamgirl
12-14-2012, 11:36 AM
Toughen up ladies..
toughen up......
You have no idea how tough I am, Fridays. I assure you that I am already tough enough. ;)
Now down to the heart of the matter, I can't speak for anyone else but I truly hope that you don't think that anything I said in this thread was a personal attack on you. I can adore you as a person (and do) but disagree with something you have said or the way you said it.
I promise you that I still think you are awesome and I now think you are twice as awesome for saying you are sorry for the miscommunication that occured.
justanothercamgirl
12-14-2012, 11:38 AM
A former high school classmate that we all loved and admired (our class president and Homecoming King) has passed away, and I just saw his obituary and picture. :(
I am so sorry for you lost, BrownFox. It is always so hard when you find out these things as a shock during a 'would-be' normal day.
justanothercamgirl
12-14-2012, 11:49 AM
I was thinking for the last few days if I should answer to this or not and ultimately I think I should.
1. I did not mean to hurt anyone;s feelings with the words disgrace and understand.
I was referring to the situation as not being great at all and NOT referring to the person who was in that situation.
2. the personal attacks were quite a shock to me..
After 4000 + posts mostly advice and words of encouragement, its quite sad to see that 1 post written in a " tough-er" manner brings in so much criticism...
3. on a happier note, Im glad my opinion matters that much :D
Toughen up ladies..
toughen up......
I know that this is going to shock the fuck out of everyone, but I am going to defend Fridays post.
In my not-so-expert opinion on Fridays, she was trying to make a joke to lighten up the situation and did not come off well in text. I wouldn't dare speak for Fridays but what you all read as being condescending I am reading as someone who feels deeply hurt that we misunderstood her intentions.
Fridays points out in her post that she never meant it to be a 'you aren't good enough as a person' thing. She meant it as a 'this situation really sucks, so chew bubble gum and kick ass and you are all out of bubble gum' kind of way. At least that is how I am reading it.
She was hurt that we could misunderstand that she would mean to be hurtful (we do all have to remember that she was dead drunk when she wrote her post). Then she made a joke that, "At least she knows that her opinion matters".
I rest my case, your honour.
Fridays, I hope you don't feel that I have spoken out of turn in taking your post apart to explain where I think the miscommuncation occured. If I did, feel free to tell me to 'shove it' but know I had the best intentions. :)
Fridays
12-14-2012, 01:34 PM
before I start replying, I have to say that night i was drunk it was because my best friend who I have no seen for 7 years was visiting me, and she is so into astrological signs... that being said she kind of got me into it. so this morning I was researching stuff about my sign. I am a Capricorn and some things are just the way they are, in my world, which is the only world.:D ( Like I told 1 very high tipper in my chat room yesterday, and then he left... and I told them room " he leaves... LOL fuck him then!)
@ marina "I sense sarcasm and a lot of attitude in your post! I don't think you're good enough nor qualified to tell anyone to toughen up. I think you're the one that needs to SOFTEN up."
LOL... and this is juuuust your opinion.. I wonder if you;re good "enough" to " sense" things...
do u have some kind of "sensors" that I dont know about ? where can I buy them? please do tell.
Qualified... that I am.
and when you get that much experience under your belt like I have, you will too.
@ incantations
" pretty much demand that I get my act together "
Ill just quote this.
Thats exactly right.
But why would I demand that YOU get YOUR act together? Last time I checked you were NOT paying my bills and my entertainment, you were just paying for your own.. Oh look, Im demanding that YOU do great for YOURSELF, how dare I!?!?
@justanother
You;re totally right.
Also. the problem with writing posts instead of talking face to face is that...
you can NOT see the other person;s reactions, gestures and vibe over all.
I talk with my hands alot ( part of being of latin origins), how can I write my hands gestures and face expressions? cant.
and again,,.. I assumed wrong that after all my posts here, my intentions are well known as ONLY being positive.
so let me make that clear , for future refference.
MY intentions are ONLY positive ones.
justanothercamgirl
12-14-2012, 02:18 PM
Okay.
So this is the part where I clarify my own personal position on why this whole damn mess happened.
Sometimes we forget that people do not think the exact same way that we do. They don't have the same thoughts and the same feelings. There is not enough words in the English language for someone to explain what having chronic depression feels like to someone who has never felt it. Don't believe me? Try this simple exercise, explain snow in words as if you were describing it to someone who has never experienced it before. "Well, it is wet. And solid, but wait...not solid like ice, less solid. It is kind of fluffy. No, not fluffy like cotton.'
Miscommunication happens because we all experience life differently. It especially happens when emotion is invovled because there is no logic to draw from.
Do I think that what Fridays said to the Incantations was rude and mean. Yes, I do.
Do I think that Fridays owes the Incantations an apology for what was said? Yes, I do.
Do I think that Fridays had the best intentions when she posted her reply to Incantations and the problem lies in the fact that she doesn't have an anxiety or depression disorder so the advice she gave was the advice she would give to herself in the same situation? Yes, I do.
Do I think Fridays reacted in emotional way after she hereself was hurt that we would think that she would hurt someone for fun, felt attacked and tried to defend herself and posted from a emotional place instead of a logical one? Yes, I do.
So....what we have here is a failure to communicate. Fridays was trying to post in a 'hard love' way because that is how she probably 'self-soothes' when she is in pain. You know how people have a tendency to put their foot in their mouth at funerals and say things like, "He has gone to a better place" when the person they are talking to isn't religious so it comes off rude and hurtful? Yeah, just like that.
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Fridays words and methods but us telling Fridays that she is a 'bad person' for 'not knowing better' is no better than her telling Incantations to 'Suck it up, Princess.'
In summary, Fridays rocks. Incantatious is one of the most raw and couragous people I know. And me? I talk way too fucking much. ;)
ExoticBeauty4U
12-14-2012, 03:11 PM
This thread made me appreciate camming again, especially the freedom we have with it. Thank you ladies I was being so ungratelful and watching other girls constantly being in pvt or being tipped (which is an absolute no no) and just not being thankful that I still make something even during rough times. Not to mention everything is a cycle in life, so you cant have the high earning days without the lows. Best of luck to everyone:)
Marina Starr
12-14-2012, 05:48 PM
You're damn right, it's MY opinion and you're entitled to it, so toughen up and lay off on the alcohol.
I don't want nor need your kind of experience so how much experience you have is out the window. With all the experience you have, you still haven't learn when you don't have anything nice to say, then you shouldn't say anything at all. Who ares how much experience you have if you don't have kindness, compassion or sensitivity toward others?! You are still not good enough nor qualified to tell me to toughen up because I am already tough. You are now DISMISSED!
@ marina "I sense sarcasm and a lot of attitude in your post! I don't think you're good enough nor qualified to tell anyone to toughen up. I think you're the one that needs to SOFTEN up."
LOL... and this is juuuust your opinion.. I wonder if you;re good "enough" to " sense" things...
do u have some kind of "sensors" that I dont know about ? where can I buy them? please do tell.
Qualified... that I am.
and when you get that much experience under your belt like I have, you will too.
justanothercamgirl
12-14-2012, 06:15 PM
With all the experience you have, you still haven't learn when you don't have anything nice to say, then you shouldn't say anything at all.
It seems a lot of us could benefit from learning this lesson.
Marina Starr
12-14-2012, 06:16 PM
Yes, and what I needed to say, had to be said.
It seems a lot of us could benefit from learning this lesson.
justanothercamgirl
12-14-2012, 06:18 PM
Yes, and what I needed to say, had to be said.
It had to be said?
That is very much your opinion.
And my opinion would be very much be that one should not throw stones in glass houses.
Marina Starr
12-14-2012, 06:20 PM
And I KNOW it's MY opinion. This glass house has been broken, so your 'throw stones' theory is not valid in my world.
It had to be said?
That is very much your opinion.
And my opinion would be very much be that one should not throw stones in glass houses.
Fridays
12-14-2012, 06:25 PM
popcorn anyone? lol
justanothercamgirl
12-14-2012, 06:38 PM
And I KNOW it's MY opinion. This glass house has been broken, so your 'throw stones' theory is not valid in my world.
Oh, so it is your perception that there is a time and a place where name-calling turns a past wrong into a right?
Huh, interesting theory.
lewandowskaewelina
12-14-2012, 06:43 PM
Lets stop this argument, there is no point to prove who is right or who is wrong, this is FORUM. Conversation is exchanging different opinions, we are all from different backgrounds, have different struggles, and different ways how we deal with things and how we understand things. We as a different people will never think exact the same way u know.
But anyway, i just wanna add that a cammgirl that its making minumim wage camming thats nothing wrong with this. Cause at the end of the day its not about how MUCH u make, but how much u SAFE. So lets say being a top model on a camsite and blowing up money paycheck to a paycheck (higher expenses) , is worst, than a camgirl making minimum wage but actually saving money. So after a couple of years that lower income camgirl can end up having 20K in her bank account while high income top camgirl ends up at the square one.