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JacksonEsskay
12-24-2012, 08:25 PM
I recently asked a dancer I knew from a club I frequent to accompany me to another club in a city about an hour away -- I wanted to visit the club and wanted company (just company -- no extras) but for various reasons I don't have a "wingman" to go with. I would be going by limo so as not to worry about drinking and driving. I tried to be clear that this was strictly business (not "funny business") as far as compensation for her time. That's the last I ever heard from her. Did I cross some line? Is this not an appropriate suggestion?

shanna dior
12-24-2012, 09:33 PM
I'd say most dancers aren't comfortable going OTC with customers, regardless of what it entails. While it's not *necessarily* inappropriate to ask a dancer to see you outside the club (for whatever reason) it's also not entirely appropriate. A club dancer is just that, a club dancer, and shouldn't be expected to have to offer her services/companionship/time outside of the club. Some girls get offended by requests, others ignore them, and a small percentage accept them. You can always try making the same offer to another dancer, but usually if they're the kind of dancer who is open to seeing you outside the club, they make it known to you.

bem401
12-25-2012, 07:38 AM
I have visited other clubs over the years with dancers but, to the best of my recollection, it was always at their request. Number one, dancers are highly unlikely to get in a car with someone she considers strictly a customer and, number two, why would.a dancer accompany you to check out her competition.

yoda57us
12-25-2012, 12:18 PM
I recently asked a dancer I knew from a club I frequent to accompany me to another club in a city about an hour away -- I wanted to visit the club and wanted company (just company -- no extras) but for various reasons I don't have a "wingman" to go with. I would be going by limo so as not to worry about drinking and driving. I tried to be clear that this was strictly business (not "funny business") as far as compensation for her time. That's the last I ever heard from her. Did I cross some line? Is this not an appropriate suggestion?

In what world would you think that a dancer, a total stranger, would be an appropriate choice as a "wing man" in another strip club? Furthermore, why would you assume that offering a dancer money to accompany you anywhere outside of the club would be an appropriate request? Now, I'm being a bit extreme here to prove a point but really, the percentage of dancers that would agree to this sort of thing is miniscule. What has happened in your previous strip clubbing experiences that led you to believe it was not an unusual request? Have you done this before? Has it worked?

rickdugan
12-25-2012, 07:20 PM
I recently asked a dancer I knew from a club I frequent to accompany me to another club in a city about an hour away -- I wanted to visit the club and wanted company (just company -- no extras) but for various reasons I don't have a "wingman" to go with. I would be going by limo so as not to worry about drinking and driving. I tried to be clear that this was strictly business (not "funny business") as far as compensation for her time. That's the last I ever heard from her. Did I cross some line? Is this not an appropriate suggestion?

Wow, you've received some fairly extreme answers thus far. I'm going to try to provide the best balanced response that I can to this question.

Jackson, you no doubt have read a lot on here and on tuscl (which I know you post on) about OTC with dancers, including some stories about guys who have taken dancers to other clubs. What I think has been missing from these stories is the fact that this is often not such a casual thing and usually develops after significant reg/fav history.

I have done this twice, each time with a dancer with whom I had pre-existing OTC history. In each case, she asked me rather than the other way around and it was because she wanted to check out other clubs and needed a guy to escort her. Keep in mind that each time this happens, you are visiting her potential future work site, so she has reputational and other considerations in play as poor behavior by the guy (stingy, obnoxious, grabby, making it obvious that he is also fucking the visiting dancer, etc.) will reflect poorly upon her.

In all honesty, you'd probably have an easier time finding a girl to simply go OTC for p4p than you would finding one who wants to club with you.

Anyway, just my :twocents:

shanna dior
12-25-2012, 09:26 PM
In all honesty, you'd probably have an easier time finding a girl to simply go OTC for p4p than you would finding one who wants to club with you.

This is actually probably true.

JacksonEsskay
12-25-2012, 09:54 PM
While I've not done this before, it did not occur to me that what I was suggesting was so far off base. I've seen this dancer often, spent quite a bit on her, even went to breakfast with her after closing once. But apparently I presumed too much. Also, I was not suggesting the dancer would be a wingman . . .rather, I just did not wish to go to the club on my own. Ah well . . .live and learn.

yoda57us
12-25-2012, 11:45 PM
Have you been back to her club to see her since this happened?

shasta
12-26-2012, 03:22 AM
One of my favorite nights was when an out of town customer's buddies wanted to go to a different club. 500 bucks to drive myself to another club in my small city and hang out for 2 hours:-)
Did you tell her UPFRONT how much money you would give her? Did you give her the option of driving herself?

rickdugan
12-26-2012, 09:21 AM
I just did not wish to go to the club on my own.

Why not?

JacksonEsskay
12-29-2012, 05:56 PM
Why not?

The club is more of an upscale dance nightclub -- i.e. a dance party scene more than a "gentleman's club" atmosphere -- couples or groups are more the norm.

yoda57us
12-29-2012, 06:35 PM
The club is more of an upscale dance nightclub -- i.e. a dance party scene more than a "gentleman's club" atmosphere -- couples or groups are more the norm.

Dude, is it a strip club or not?

shasta
12-29-2012, 07:29 PM
I don't see how this is difficult. She either will or won't go with you to another public place. Like I said before, tell how much money you will give her and where to go. You are not dating her, so you are not going to be picking her up, lol.

If you know what a average night for her equals offer that plus 200.

yoda57us
12-30-2012, 12:01 PM
I don't see how this is difficult.

I agree. That being said, if the OP is treating his exchanges with the dancer in question as evasively as he is dealing with the topic here in this thread I have to believe that there is more to this than meets the eye...

JacksonEsskay
12-30-2012, 01:46 PM
Dude, is it a strip club or not?

is, but not typically so . . . at least not like the clubs I usually go to. I am not sure why you think I am being evasive, I was simply trying to answer the question of why I did not want to go to the club by myself.

yoda57us
12-30-2012, 02:14 PM
Thanks for the link, looks just like any other strip club to me.

I don't know where you would get any sort of inclination of the vibe being different. It my be couples friendly but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of customers in there are single guys looking for dances...just like any other strip club. In any event, as Shasta said, if you want to be taken seriously about any sort of OTC activity-even platonic-you have to be prepared to pony-up. I've never been a believer in the "every dancer has her price" theory but some certainly do...

JacksonEsskay
12-30-2012, 11:02 PM
Here's another link that may explain my thoughts on the vibe:

shasta
12-31-2012, 04:03 AM
Did you tell her how much you would pay for a night out? Do you usually spend 200 or more when you are there? You were asking why this girl did not respond. I am trying help, I just need more information.
Obviously a dancer is going to have the most insight related to this question.

JacksonEsskay
12-31-2012, 05:15 PM
Did you tell her how much you would pay for a night out? Do you usually spend 200 or more when you are there? You were asking why this girl did not respond. I am trying help, I just need more information.
Obviously a dancer is going to have the most insight related to this question.

I spend considerably more than 200 when I am with her in the club. In my two most recent visits I have spent at least an hour in a champagne booth with this dancer and tipped her well in addition to her cut of the booth fee. I did not mention an exact amount when asking her about this "junket" because, quite frankly, I have no idea what is fair and what is outrageous (both high or low). Including travel time to the club (assuming she accompanies me in the limo) it would be about five hours total, maybe six. I assumed that in addition to covering the expenses of the evening, I would offer her the equivalent of what she would make at the club on a good night.

I think the point is moot now, since she has not responded to texts wishing her Merry Christmas and Happy New Year . . . I think I blew it with her with my fumbled suggestion :-[

yoda57us
01-01-2013, 01:30 AM
I think the point is moot now, since she has not responded to texts wishing her Merry Christmas and Happy New Year . . . I think I blew it with her with my fumbled suggestion :-[

I think you've summed-up the situation pretty well...

The vast majority of dancers are not interested in OTC activities of any kind. Some will politely decline, tell you that they are flattered but don't see customers outside of work and others will ignore you. Show up at the club ready to do a VIP room with her and see how it goes...

shasta
01-01-2013, 01:47 AM
Well, you never told her how much you would give her, and you didn't mention that she could drive herself.

Those 2 point could have helped. Yoda is right that most dancers can't really be bothered with OTC, or have a crazy bf, etc. But, you will never know unless you say those two points.

shasta
01-01-2013, 01:48 AM
Well, you never told her how much you would give her, and you didn't mention that she could drive herself.

Those 2 point could have helped. Yoda is right that most dancers can't really be bothered with OTC, or have a crazy bf, etc. But, you will never know unless you say those two points.

rickdugan
01-24-2013, 08:27 PM
The vast majority of dancers are not interested in OTC activities of any kind.

Somehow I missed this comment before. Nice textbook answer. ;)

yoda57us
01-25-2013, 07:34 AM
If by "textbook" you mean reality then I agree rick.

rickdugan
01-25-2013, 10:11 AM
Yoda, I think that experiences may differ on this topic. When factoring in dancers who work in more conservative areas, I would probably agree that a majority of dancers would never go OTC with a customer, but I'd be reluctant to call that majority "vast." Ten years ago I might have agreed with that statement, but times are changing. Nowadays I'm having little difficulty in sourcing OTC almost anywhere outside of the midwest and I am not exactly soliciting indiscriminately or bottomfeeding. Heck, even Beantown has opened up a lot since even just a few years ago and my last two trips there were surprisingly fun for fairly reasonable $$$. Net-net, as time rolls on, OTC is becoming increasingly commonplace.

Now this should in no way serve as a message for guys like Jackson to try to coax a fav into visiting other clubs with him. Clearly it was not her cup of tea and there were probably a number of advance warning signs that he could have picked up on if he had a little more experience under his belt. Nor, for that matter, would I suggest that he start soliciting girls for p4p. But in discussing this issue down here in the basement, I cannot help but favor a clear-eyed approach to this topic.

yoda57us
01-25-2013, 07:30 PM
lol, our experiences differ vastly rick since I don't go to clubs looking for take-out and you do. I don't have a problem with that at all but I stand by my statement. Dancer P4P may very well be more common than it was ten years ago but I still see don't see it as prevalent as long as you rule-out the whore houses masquerading as strip clubs in many urban locations nowadays. Dancers in the club always know which girls are seeing guys OTC and it's never anything other than a minority. Clearly you've honed your technique over the years when it comes to finding the type of girl you are looking for in the clubs rick. We could nitpick over what constitutes a vast majority vs. a non-vast majority but there really isn't much point in that.

rickdugan
01-25-2013, 08:00 PM
We could nitpick over what constitutes a vast majority vs. a non-vast majority but there really isn't much point in that.

Fair enough on that front. Suffice it to say that, IME, OTC continues to become easier to source as time goes on. Now some of that may be a function of ever evolving experience on my part in subtly sifting it out, but I am also convinced that more willingness on the part of a larger % of dancers also plays a role, even if we are still talking about a minority of them. And for the record, I long ago adopted a policy of not sourcing OTC from places where sex is available ITC. Now I have broken that rule on a couple of occasions, but for the most part I have stayed true to it as I have no interest in paying a girl to service me in my hotel after she has just serviced some number of other guys ITC.

I have mentioned this before, but I'll continue to say that the biggest surprise for me continues to be how young some of the willing participants are becoming. Back in the day, there was almost zero chance of ever scoring OTC with a very hot young dancer as her money ITC was such that she had no need to consider it. With the shifting economics, so too have attitudes shifted among some of the younger gals. Idk, but that component of this game continues to make me wary.

Anyway, just my thoughts fwiw.

yoda57us
01-25-2013, 09:02 PM
I have mentioned this before, but I'll continue to say that the biggest surprise for me continues to be how young some of the willing participants are becoming. Back in the day, there was almost zero chance of ever scoring OTC with a very hot young dancer as her money ITC was such that she had no need to consider it. With the shifting economics, so too have attitudes shifted among some of the younger gals. Idk, but that component of this game continues to make me wary.


Actually this is the least surprising element in the equation to me. Young girls are getting into dancing thinking that it's big money and it simply isn't in many cases any more. In the lap dance era being pretty and young really isn't enough to bank every shift or even on most shifts. There is just too much competition. The best LD money ITC is based on sales technique and not simply looks or age. On the other hand, selling sex outside of the club is a simple matter of waiting for a guy who offers the cash and seems trustworthy. Nothing has changed all that much since I started going to clubs in the early 80's and picking up street walkers a few years later. Some girls are good at selling the fantasy, some would just as soon sell you the reality...and some are good at both!

rockie
01-26-2013, 10:29 AM
At one of my two local haunts the OTC offers have grown exponentially in the last few years. I don't seek it, but they are warm for my wallet!

Jackson: I'm in DC on occasion, and have thought about a Stadium visit. No part of me has ever considered needing a female companion to make the visit.

bem401
01-26-2013, 12:34 PM
At one of my two local haunts the OTC offers have grown exponentially in the last few years. I don't seek it, but they are warm for my wallet!

Jackson: I'm in DC on occasion, and have thought about a Stadium visit. No part of me has ever considered needing a female companion to make the visit.

Over the last several years, the sputtering economy has changed stripclubs from a sellers' market to a buyers' market. Customers used to maybe have trouble getting time with their dancer of choice. Now its more likely the dancers having trouble finding customers looking to spend. Consequently, the girls are less selectve in who their customets are and what thry're willing to do with them.

rickdugan
01-28-2013, 09:35 PM
The best LD money ITC is based on sales technique and not simply looks or age. On the other hand, selling sex outside of the club is a simple matter of waiting for a guy who offers the cash and seems trustworthy. Nothing has changed all that much since I started going to clubs in the early 80's and picking up street walkers a few years later. Some girls are good at selling the fantasy, some would just as soon sell you the reality...and some are good at both!

Then I guess that I'll be surprised for the both of us. OTC has been my primary form of p4p for several years now and I have never seen it like this. Not so long ago, young beautiful girls did not need all that much sales technique to sell dances. Also, it is hard enough for many of these young girls to even decide to dance for a living, never mind start selling sex. Additionally, young girls often have fewer financial pressures (single, no kids, living with parents, etc.) than do many slightly older dances, thereby further removing an incentive to sell p4p.

I agree with bem that the economy has played an important role in this, but even so I am surprised at how it has impacted the newest generation of dancers.

Anyway, just my :twocents:

yoda57us
01-29-2013, 02:45 PM
I don't really think it's any great mystery that the economy is causing women who work in the sex industry to offer more, offer the same for less money or even offer more for less money. I may be preaching a contrary POV but I've seen this cycle over and over again since the 80's. It's just nothing new. If a hot 20 year old could bank every shift just by shaking her ass from two feet away there wouldn't even be such a thing as a full-contact lap dance much less ITC extras or OTC sex. I don't think her personal situation has all that much to do with the decision to dance, escort or work at Walmart. Kids, no kids, in school, not in school, living at home or striking out on your own some women can work in the sex industry and some just can't. Once the ones who can decide to get into the industry it's only natural to want to maximize revenue.

Maybe I'm just jaded or maybe it's because I don't really spend any time pursuing younger dancers for either ITC or OTC. In either case, as I said previously, I form my opinions based on what I hear from my friends and regs who work in the clubs every day. They complain a lot about dirty girls in the VIP room but not nearly as much about girls who take guys home. This may be because the women in my preferred age bracket who are not seeing customers OTC are most likely not going to start doing it any time soon. They are not looking at the OTC girls as competition since they are not interested in competing on that level for business.

rickdugan
01-29-2013, 09:01 PM
Yoda, I get my feedback directly from the horses' mouths (so to speak) and I can tell you that there is almost always a reason why a dancer decides to take that next step in agreeing to OTC encounters. Most of these girls would never present it as such, but when you boil it down these girls often do what they do because they are feeling financial pressures of one sort or another. Many of them have kids while others have themselves and even others to support. It is very trite to simply say that these girls are doing OTC because they are lazy and/or lack sales skills, but further this is not my experience and this type of nonsense usual comes from resentful dancers who disapprove of what they believe certain other dancers are doing.

Let's take, for example, Young Lithe Hottie, who has been featured in a number of my recent blue side posts. She is young, hot as hell, has the gift of gab and is single with no kids. So why was I finally able, after 2 years, to convert her to an OTC provider? Because her mother lost her job and is destitute, so for the past several months YLH has been supporting the both of them. With money down in her club as in many SCs, she found herself needing to fill the income gap somehow. This is just one example, but IMHO illustrative of what I suspect are the types of situations that are cropping up more now, which may be leading dancers who would never have been good OTC targets to agree to these types of activities.

yoda57us
01-29-2013, 10:49 PM
Rick, I'm not really concerned with why they do it. If they can handle it I say more power to them. I can't really speak to the "resentful dancers " issue since I haven't really encountered it. I'm sure they are out there but, as I said, the girls I know seem a lot more concerned about what other dancers are doing in VIP than outside of the club. As far as younger girls being lazy or lacking sales skills I have to be honest here. I have limited experience with younger dancers but when an early twenty-something approaches me smelling of perfume and tobacco, refuses to take a polite "no" for an answer, and disses other dancers in the club I think we have to admit that inexperience is at least part of the problem for at least some of these younger girls.

I'm glad that, just as I am, you are getting what you want out of your strip club experience but I still stand by my original opinion that OTC dancers, in any age group, are in the minority in most clubs.

shasta
01-30-2013, 12:04 AM
I know this is the blue side and all, but imo this comments are so far from the OP. The OP wanted to go to another club with a dancer, not "have takeout" so to speak.

Fucking a customer is so vastly different then meeting a customer in a public place like another strip club or a restaurant - maybe that's just me.

Of course if the customer is customer is creepy then it would never be worth the dancer's time... but that is not all what you are talking about.

Again, the OP was asking why he is having a hard time getting this dancer to go to ANOTHER CLUB with him. I asked him if he told her upfront how much he would give her, what kind of customer he was to her and if he gave her the option to drive herself. He evaded those questions.

This thread like so many of the threads in the blue has become a showy otc conquest bromance. Stick to topic.

yoda57us
01-30-2013, 08:25 AM
This thread like so many of the threads in the blue has become a showy otc conquest bromance. Stick to topic.

The OP's original post was addressed when the thread was started. As is the case all over SW, when threads age the topic sometimes shifts. It happens in pink all the time. If you no longer find the thread relevant or interesting you are free to not participate in it.