View Full Version : Teacher fired for previous porn career - keep this in mind!
Kellydancer
01-16-2013, 04:20 PM
This is really creepy and I am not surprised but it leaves a few questions such as how did others find out? Did this teacher blab? Also, a question for you camgirls but do you have to fill out papers when you are hired? All I can say is I am thankful I did modeling and the one porn movie I did before the internet (or when it was widespread). I will readily admit I made a mistake doing that video but luckily in my case the company went defunct before DVDs and they never upgraded to them. In fact while searching for the video nothing has ever come up so I hope (and so far I have)I dodged a bullet. I was also lucky because I never needed a license to dance in any clubs and anytime I was paid whether modeling, that video or dancing was always by cash.
If it makes some feel better, I have taught (and in fact am going to get my teaching certificate to teach children)and worked in government (which required a huge background check)and nothing ever showed up. It also never showed up when HR at a job I was working was trying to find an excuse to get me fired. When I ran a background check on myself years ago a club I did work at came up but that's because they paid me and the company that owned it was under a different name (one that owned several companies, most non sex related).
What irks me about this is that I bet those judging her have done far worse. I'm willing to bet many of these people did drugs, maybe did swinging or many other things. Yet they are attacking her because of this when there are worse things to judge on.
MissMafia
01-16-2013, 04:33 PM
This is just outrageous to me... This girl was crucified for making a better life for herself.
OMG! She did porn? I relish the thought... GOD FORBID! How many kids, even men, strip to pay their way through college? How many sell drugs even or do not so socially acceptable activities to give themselves a better life?
HOW many girls strip and pay for law school? A TON. How many of us are using this as a way to pay our way through college? How many of us DO this so we don't have to sit in the welfare office for support and food stamps?
It's just crap how this country preaches we should do everything to better our lives to STOP the ever-rising unemployment rates, but then just because that job is socially unacceptable to political douchebags or people who are so conservative they can't remove the stick from the tight ass, that you get crucified for it..
With education costs, they are forever rising. For my IT degree, and ASSOCIATES' mind you, it cost me 65k just to get that degree. I worked 3 jobs while I was in school. My 2nd degree, Criminal Justice, just as much and it was a Bachelors. Then I went to law school, did 1 year and the amount of people who did things such as camming, is a ridiculous number. Books? $1000+ every 3 months.... and the gas, living expenses... it's outrageous. But you can't get so much help from the government on how much you make. I came from a Mother that was disabled and I got all the help I could get but even though I got every grant under the sun, my education was TOP priority and I WORKED for all the things I wanted afforded to me and not because I was entitled to them. Does anyone even know how much it COSTS to be a teacher? The education, the time put in, the certifications, the student teaching, the materials - then the HIDDEN COSTS! This is taken from random websites I've pulled this from:
"One of the aspects of teaching that is hard to comprehend is the sheer amount of money it costs to be a teacher. You must have your BA for example, which isn’t so ridiculous unless you realize too late you spent $100,000.00 on your education (thank you NYU) to be a teacher and bring home $40,000.00, which is, in case you are bad at math (see above NYU example) is around $3,000.00 a month. Once the BA part is over if you decided to be a teacher without getting your credential as part of your program then you have to go back to school for this (which can run $10,000.00 depending on the school).
Once you have the credential (by the way this autographed piece of paper from Arnie costs $55.00 which you have to spend twice), you then must be fingerprinted for a fee, which is not transferred from county to county, and thus you must pay and be fingerprinted separately for each county you apply to. Once you are "in" and then receive tenure you are now responsible for professional development and the expectation of an MA to be received within a certain number of years. This means enrolling in school once again to the tune of upwards of another $5 – 7,000.00 provided you learned your lesson the first time out and opt to go to a less expensive school. Sure, over the years you have moved from 40 to 45,000.00 a year, but add to this your rent (who can buy a house even with the economic crisis on this money?) cost of living, etc…and now you know why teachers get summers off. So they can work a second job and make more money!"
Typical costs:
An online teaching certificate program typically costs $10,000 -$30,000. For example, Drexel University in Philadelphia offers a 30-credit online teaching certification program for $22,500, which includes coursework on specialized instruction (catered to the individual's grade-level interest) and supervised field experience. Designed for career-changers or those who already hold a degree in another field, the program will help prepare students for a teaching career in any state. Saint Joseph's University, also in Philadelphia, offers online accelerated teacher certification for $17,500. The program is geared toward working professionals looking for a career change.
A bachelor's degree program in education typically ranges from $25,000 at state universities to $100,000 or more at private universities. According to a 2010 report by College Board, the average tuition and fees were $7,605 per year for in-state tuition or $19,595 for out-of-state tuition at public colleges and universities. This equals an average cost of $30,400 (resident) or $78,400 (non-resident) for a four-year bachelor's degree, not including room and board, which averages an extra $8,545 per year.
A master's degree program in education typically costs $12,000 -$74,000. For example, the Master of Education at University of Washington Bothell costs $26,200 for residents or $52,000 for non-residents.
What should be included:
A teacher training or teaching certificate program should adhere to state guidelines to prepare individuals for a career in education. Each state's certification requirements are available through the Education Testing Service. For example, Indiana requires all teachers must hold a bachelor's degree, complete approved teacher education coursework including special education training, pass the Praxis tests, complete CPR-Heimlich Maneuver training and pay a $35 licensing fee.
Additional costs:
Testing fees can add an additional $120 -$300 to the applicant's costs. The Praxis Tests cost $50 for registration and an additional $65 -$150 for individual tests, several of which may be required by a state. Most states require teachers to pass Praxis Tests prior to receiving a teaching license. It costs an additional $30 -$40 to have an individual's score reports sent to a specific state for licensure. Texas is one state that has developed its own required teacher certification testing, which costs $120 per test. Different tests are required for teachers with different concentrations (such as special education), and those guidelines are discussed as part of a certified teacher training program.
Licensing fees for teachers are typically $35 -$200, and this fee must be paid after passing any required tests and meeting additional licensing requirements. For example, the Connecticut initial education certificate costs $200. In New York, the initial teaching certificate costs $50 for those who have completed a traditional education degree program or $100 for those who have earned certification through alternative certification requirements.
Discounts:
State-funded organizations like Texas Teaching Fellows and national organizations like Teach for America offer a unique opportunity to secure a teaching job with full salary and benefits before earning a teaching certificate. Once accepted, teachers typically complete their certification throughout the two-year fellowship, taking courses at night or on the weekends while they work. These programs often include discounted teacher training or assistance with student loans, as well as an intensive summer training to prepare participants.
States with a high demand for teachers may institute additional programs to get qualified teachers in their classrooms. For example, the Alaska Transition to Teaching program offers a low-cost teacher training certification program for applicants seeking their initial teaching certificate, with total program fees of $611.
Shopping for a teaching certificate:
Guidelines for teacher certification often change for each state, which has its own certification process. The National Center for Education Information offers teacher certification guidelines for each state, including help for individuals that have earned a non-education degree and want to begin a career in teaching.
Distance-Education.org provides a breakdown of teaching certificate programs, bachelor's programs and master's programs in education, which can be sorted by cost.
**Nothing stated about out of pocket costs either - go FIGURE. Not only did they mention the pay grades, the amount of money these teachers pay outta pocket to use things in their OWN classrooms that the schools won't pay for, the amount of strikes and bullshit, the amount of crap they deal with DAILY, and also, the pay scaled that the majority of them deal with while being at a district.
People need to stop calling the kettle black and crucifying people for doing a job, that has the potential to make a lot of money, only to use that money to BETTER themselves in the future. If this is SUCH a big deal, then maybe more opportunities should be afforded to those people while they are getting a higher education. She probably paid for her teaching in cash with porn... I guess they want us to be on welfare, food stamps without anything to show for hard work. BUT THEN we would we be crucified for being lazy... SMDH. I guess we should all stick to mediocre jobs. I guess it doesn't matter you better yourself and changed.... GOD FORBID anyone stays in the same place their whole lives and doesn't do a thing to change it. It's PORN. Unless you got a bunch of school administrators that aren't getting laid...
Either which way, you are damned if you and damned if you don't anymore... it makes me gag.
christinarita
01-16-2013, 04:43 PM
I seriously cannot believe there are still people who do this job and think they will never get caught. They want to make the most amount of money possible, thus having good placement and visibility, yet still don't think they will ever be found out :O. There's a reason why it pays the amount it does. This is not something to do out of desperation or to just jump into. It literally jepordizes a bunch of potential careers. Also, just living with that in the back of your mind "will they ever find out?" can NOT be healthy. Chronic worrying.
I agree that newcomers should think carefully about this choice, especially if they are just starting out in their careers. On the other hand, I see no shame in sexual freedom. The porn industry generates billions of dollars each year, and we are all consumers of it. Why is it so "wrong" to be a producer of it?
If I had been that teacher, I would have fought the ruling tooth and nail, Larry Flynt style. It's the hypocritical law that needs to be changed and not the behavior of a single "immoral" woman. Would they have cracked down on every single man, working for that school board, who has consumed porn in the past year? I doubt it.
Furthermore I personally believe that sex is getting more and more mainstream and this will not be a big deal at all in a decade or two. Cam modelling will be as normal as working in the mall, and there will be fucking machines in everyone's local gym (that's my wish anyway!).
Christine
summerbre
01-16-2013, 04:59 PM
Furthermore I personally believe that sex is getting more and more mainstream and this will not be a big deal at all in a decade or two. Cam modelling will be as normal as working in the mall, and there will be fucking machines in everyone's local gym (that's my wish anyway!).
Christine
Christine, I think you have a future in fitness centers.
MommieLongLegs
01-16-2013, 05:00 PM
The men get fired too. But as someone who consumes a sexwork product, its easier to shift focus onto the creator of it. If women liked looking at porn more, it would be the same situation.
If you made a homemade sextape and it leaked, yes you would be fired. Its porn.
Celebrities & the entertainment industry- its different than vanilla careers. Celebrities lie and say their tapes were leaked, when in reality, they leak them. You have to have all parties in it sign a document releasing it, but thats what they don't tell you. If someone literally stole it and put it on the internet, the FBI would almost instantly track the person down in a flash using the IP address used to upload it, and then that person would be in jail & it would be all over the news. Why doesn't this happen? Because celebrities leak them themselves for PR exposure.
I'm not saying it never happens, but I have a hard time believing it's not the norm to turn a blind a eye or try to do a cover up when the person is a man, especially when the person in power, the boss, is a man. I don't know, it just seems like there's a double standard. It works both ways too, though. Carrie Underwood kissed a 12 year old on the lips for his 1st kiss, and everyone was cool with it. If a grown ass man had kissed a 12 year old girl on the lips, people would've wanted him arrested right there on stage. I don't think it's ok either way.
Does that example apply to my point? I guess I'm trying to point out the double standard part lol.
Also, I read about this teacher on a different site, and they actually put her stage name out there, talking about she's known as ----. She did it for 9 months 7 years ago so she wasn't "known"...but she is now.
And I've heard stories of doctors who do drugs on the job, which of course can be detrimental to the patient. My friend told me she saw a nurse come out the bathroom wiping white powder off her nose. I've also had 2 doctors be mean to me as a child. An eye doctor snatched a book out my hand. He had me read a book with the tiniest print, and I guess thought I couldn't read it. A dental assistant left this pink stuff you swish in my mouth and then said "next time be on time". I spit it out the car door (I don't know why I waited so long lol) when we left the dentist. I told my mom, but she didn't go back and say anything. I was like 13-14.
My point is, just because someone's background check doesn't have adult work on it, doesn't mean they're fit to work with the public, let alone kids.
ManyRoses
01-16-2013, 05:04 PM
i'm certain that not everyone will agree with my position on this, but IMHO if you are going to perform ANY sort of adult industry related work, you should maximize your earnings in every way possible. The reasoning behind this is as follows ...
Any straight profession that involves the 'public trust' i.e. teaching, health care, banking, law enforcement etc. ... and anything which requires a professional license ... is subject to 'professional conduct' standards. And while adult industry work is not illegal, 'public trust' employers and state professional licensing agencies do consider adult industry work to be 'unprofessional conduct'.
It appears that America is now in a permanent situation of too many applicants for too few new jobs. As such, employers are in a position where they can reject 90% of the applicants for a job opening for no specific reason whatsoever, and still find a qualified employee to fill that job opening. A history of adult industry work is simply something that employers don't want to 'take a chance' on. And lately, after the court ruling about the beautiful dental assistant who was fired because she was 'too attractive', just being stunningly beautiful without a history of adult industry work is enough to make potential employers avoid 'taking a chance' on hiring the stunningly beautiful job applicant.
iMHO any girl who is looking toward a future involving a 'public trust' job or a profession requiring a professional license should think twice before creating a 'paper trail' of work in the adult entertainment industry. And if she does decide to work in the adult entertainment industry, since the potential 'damage' is equal if she works one day a week or full time, she should maximize her earnings ... to compensate for potential negative future backlash.
This is a really excellent point - although I would like to add to it.
I do not think that absolutely everyone should maximize earnings in EVERY way possible - if I was to do that, I would be busting my ass working much longer days, probably working at the club again as well.....and while I would be making more, the reason that I do this job is so that I can work less, and spend more time on the things I love doing, like academic courses, dance and yoga class, training my dog, meditating, volunteering, painting, travelling....so making earnings, and maximizing earnings by working as much as possible would defeat one of the main reasons I do this work in the first place!
However, YES you are completely right that if a girl chooses to risk an job in the business while intending to work in a "risk" job in the future (what I call those jobs where you may have a issue if your past is found out), she does need to weigh the cost of losing her employment down the line, and probably earn and set aside an "outed" fund - like an emergency fund, but including money to pay for re-training in another line of work, as well as living expenses, and probably LEGAL expenses should the worst happen.
Girls should also seriously read up on local state legislation when it comes to labor laws - as it has been pointed out in this thread, in many states, employers can basically fire you for nothing, or anything, without repercussion. Which means that ANY other job you get (unless you are running your own business) puts you at risk for being fired if you are outed. It's not just public trust jobs, although those are the highest risk. Those are also the jobs where you may be in legal trouble if you lie about a past and are found out, because you lied when you signed the contract saying that everything you put down as a past employer in your background check is true. You lied when you signed to say that you have not done anything that could be considered "unprofessional conduct". More disturbingly, even telling the lie counts as unprofessional conduct - so you could be fired for lying!
Finally, you make an excellent point about the job market. And that job market isn't going to change drastically any time soon. Big cities are pushing the limits of population - and people are taking on multiple jobs in order to be able to have a more expensive lifestyle...which means that there are fewer jobs available for the same number of people. This is the same thing that I tell people when I am working at the tattoo shop, and they want hands and fingers and necks tattooed (and seem to think it will be no problem, because so many celebrities have them. Rhianna has caused me so many problems! LOL) - that it is still seen as a bad thing, and because of that, you will find it ten times harder to get a job, or a lease. Why would someone hire the candidate with the heavy tattoos, if they have an equally qualified candidate without them, and they cling to the idea that tattoos are not "professional"? Same with this - just because sex is increasingly mainstream, and more and more people work in the sex industry, it does not mean that an employer isn't going to prefer someone who HASN'T worked in the industry.
I don't know what I would do if I intended to work for someone else again, I really don't. I definitely would tell anyone looking to get into "public trust" jobs NOT to go into sex work - it simply isn't worth the risk. But women will continue to flock to "easy money" and studios telling them they will never be found out, or thinking that because they aren't nude, it isn't porn.
Rambling threadjack done....
Kellydancer
01-16-2013, 05:09 PM
Miss Mafia, I am going for the certification and that is completely on the mark. Because I already have a masters, teaching experience along with other work experience it will cost less but still there are 3 tests I need to take my first semester and each is expensive (one is over $100).
ManyRoses
01-16-2013, 05:11 PM
If people recognize your body - how they prove that it´s you? Yes, the body is similar, but it is enough to have similar body? Yes, the bank accounts, payoneer, tax forms, but are they gonna tell to somebody it´s you? Will your state or bank tell to somebody you are in the adult industry? Have your state some kind of black list? Will they preclude to do some other job? Will they make you unemploeyd? The tattoos, piercings..If you have no tattoos or wear fake tattoos..
Similar? No, you have the same body, because it is you. And bodies are fairly distinctive.
Also - forgot to mention this in the last one - most people cam out of their HOMES - so they aren't just looking at you. You may have the most average of average bodies, and NEVER show your face, but someone can recognize your living room! Or see you going into a physical studio, and find out what it is.
As for the bank and the state telling people - well, yes, actually. That is what a background check does. And any job can ask for a background check. It isn't like the state has a blacklist of "bad whores" - but they have your tax records, your employment records - you are ON FILE WITH CAM COMPANIES, and so it will come up in background checks, depending on the depth.
We aren't saying it always happens. But it is always smart to assume it will, because it CAN happen to ANYONE.
nadia29
01-16-2013, 05:20 PM
[QUOTE=Jacki;2444366]naughtygamerz in chat was talking about this article and this will be my first post, but I just want to note what i wrote in chat about it, being that I'm going into education i want to be a part of this thread
on the teacher fired, I'm going to school for teaching and I've thought about it and honestly if it comes up ill simply tell them, you can view it as me being immoral or you can view it as i worked my ass off as a single mom at 20 to finish school and make something out of my life. if you won't hire me there are 500 other schools looking for a special education teacher that will see my past as not pretty but see me as an ambitious young woman
That was nicely stated my friend. You are going to make a wonderful and inspiring teach some day soon;) xxx
JodesHu
01-16-2013, 05:37 PM
Stories like this make me so mad, the teacher did nothing illegal. If she was a good teacher and cared for her students then good for her to getting where she wants in life.
I was made homeless at 18 and with no family to fall back on (all dead) I had to quit my full-time education and take a minimum wage job that barely covers my expenses. I've decided to take up camming to pay for my education and to live above poverty all the while trying to keep a vanilla job.
I'm camming to better myself and get ahead in life, it just angers me and frustrates me that even though I'm going to bust my ass to get anywhere its so easy for an employer to fire me over this.
Sex sells, it's used in advertising everywhere, the porn industry turns over billions each year - clearly there is a market for it. But god forbid that the people who make the content try and get a different job. I really wonder how many of the parents who were so against this woman watched/purchased porn.
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 05:44 PM
You guys, this is not done on accident. Men are mindfucked by sex and women are mindfucked by food. There is a lot of overlap, but that's all done on purpose. Theres sex and food everywhere you look in advertising & daily life, but then slut and weight-shaming everywhere just as much, so that we strive to attain unattainable ideals (being underweight, being a pure virgin for your future husband lol, etc.)
This is a psychological mind control technique done in order to play on your biological instincts as a human/creature/animal (hunger, sex drive, competition mode, etc.), while making you feel bad for having those natural feelings, thus being under the control of society. Always striving to attain something that will never be attainable because its an inborn biological instinct to do the opposite. There's not much we can do about it except accept it for what it is.
simone87
01-16-2013, 05:51 PM
You guys, this is not done on accident. Men are mindfucked by sex and women are mindfucked by food. There is a lot of overlap, but that's all done on purpose. Theres sex and food everywhere you look in advertising & daily life, but then slut and weight-shaming everywhere just as much, so that we strive to attain unattainable ideals (being underweight, etc.)
This is a psychological mind control technique done in order to play on your biological instincts as a human/creature/animal (hunger, sex drive, competition mode, etc.), while making you feel bad for feeling those natural feeling, thus being under the control of society. There's not much we can do about it except accept it for what it is.
i agree with this (except im not a big food fan haha). a womans body an sexuality is a powerful thing, and while im dancing i can feel how much power i have over these quivering, horny little creatures. (ha!) people fear this kind of power, and think they can shame us in turn. what i cannot stand is how women themselves seem to be just as nasty and antagonistic towards other females in the sex industry, blaming them for leading their poor little husbands astray, and reviling us out of jealousy. some of the biggest "feminists" i've met have been the most vehement about shutting down a womans sexuality/place in the sex industry and thinking that no woman would possibly ever want to do this and must be forced. they're so afraid of being seen as a "sex object" they go the other way with mysoginistic slut shaming of their own gender. it just boggles my mind.
summerbre
01-16-2013, 05:54 PM
^???? I've never been mindfucked by food. And furthermore, the analogy doesn't stand. If we're saying man is to sex worker as woman is to food... Sex worker = human fucking being. Food = food. Discriminatory people aren't firing food from her day job. I kind of understand what you are getting at, but I think there are things that can be done, and they are being done every day. This is kind of a human rights issue, don't you think? And yes, while women in this industry SHOULD be prepared to accept the reality of the stigma (as I certainly am), to simply dismiss it and say it's not worth fighting for to not feel dehumanized by the general public is doing yourself an injustice.
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 06:04 PM
^???? I've never been mindfucked by food. And furthermore, the analogy doesn't stand. If we're saying man is to sex worker as woman is to food... Sex worker = human fucking being. Food = food. Discriminatory people aren't firing food from her day job. I kind of understand what you are getting at, but I think there are things that can be done, and they are being done every day. This is kind of a human rights issue, don't you think? And yes, while women in this industry SHOULD be prepared to accept the reality of the stigma (as I certainly am), to simply dismiss it and say it's not worth fighting for to not feel dehumanized by the general public is doing yourself an injustice.
Well these are kind of facts, not something made up. The entire advertising industry, and human consumption/materialism is built on this model. Telling you that you need these things when you don't. That you need to look a certain way but really you don't. And people are mindfucked by both really. Look at the ads and commercials everywhere. Drive down a street while listening to the radio and think about all the ads and propaganda you are exposing yourself to in just 5 minutes. Food, food, food, buy this, you need to shop this sale for clothes you don't need, ooo look at that traditionally hot young woman with large breasts, food, titty, titty, food, shop, shop, titty.
Really, you can't fight it though. It would be nice to, but its just not practical. Couldn't you say the same thing for clubs not hiring 350 lbs strippers? Should we fight for all strip clubs to allow morbidly obese women to get hired just because its discrimination to turn them down for a job? We can't. At the end of the day, its not up to us. We don't own the advertising agencies. We don't own the government who makes society's rules. Maaaaaybe some change could gradually be made if the majority of the world were sexworkers, if sexworkers were most people in society, but even then, theres no way to protest this without outing yourself as a sexworker, which is exactly what you're trying not to do right?
CourtneyRaine
01-16-2013, 06:14 PM
What about the men who pay escorts, phone sex operators and web cam cam models? What about the men who are into dommes who have them humiliate themselves on cam or take pictures of them doing it?...
It offends me that doin porn means you can't work with children. Does this mean I'm disqualified to be a mother, too?...
I absolutely see what you are saying, and I personally think the double standard is ridiculous. If camming disqualifies me from being a "good mother," then paying for and even watching porn or cam girls should disqaulify my hubby from being a "good father"- whatever those labels mean, anyway. When you put it in those terms it is completely ridiculous and I don't think any sane person would accuse one of being an unfit parent just because they've seen porn. So what is the difference between watching a naked person and being a naked person?
Unfortunately, when it comes to employment by another person or corporation, that is when things get sticky. It is one thing for a guy paying for adult services to turn around and say, "Hey! That wasn't me! Someone stole my credit card and ordered all these bdsm services without my consent!" But what about the provider, who is usually a female? The woman usually can't just turn around and be like, "Hey! That wasn't me! Someone stole my bank account information, and my social security number, and my photo ID, and changed their hair and body, including tattoos and piercings, to look exactly like me, and THEN they charged people for a service and had the money deposited right into *my* bank account! Fraud!"
See the difference?
Marina Starr
01-16-2013, 06:23 PM
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x311/melaniamai/tumblr_m7ym5yDLxf1qiyde3.gif
^I think that's totally valid. And I agree with mostly what everyone has posted. I think we all know what the reality of the situation is. I think we all just acknowledge that it's complete bullshit on behalf of those people who pass judgement and deprive such women of new opportunities...
I've just never understood how our entire society has managed to adopt this Puritanistic view of sex and sexuality, when sex is responsible for the survival of our species and is one of the most remarkably beautiful and pleasurable experiences that life has to offer. Completely blows my mind!! Because Melonie is right, it is not just sex workers who are discriminated against, but beautiful women who are considered sexually desirable. We should be praised and revered as the fucking goddesses that we are. Sorry if that sounds egotistical... I'm just so sick of seeing this stigma EVERYWHERE lately! A stripper died at work and it was a fucking joke to the journalists and talk shows reporting it. Fuck, I'm proud of every confident, self-assured woman in this industry for not being a brainwashed sex-fearing zombie. I hope the teacher goes back to camming and metaphorically shoves her dildo up everyone else's asses that were implicated in her termination. :)
summerbre
01-16-2013, 06:24 PM
Like I said, I kind of understand what you are getting at, but people being victims of advertising has very little to do with a woman losing her job over being a sex worker and society having an unnatural revulsion to sexuality, which far pre-exists modern advertising techniques.
My point was mostly in response to you saying there is nothing that can be done about it. On a micro-level, I do plenty to try and sway the stigma of individuals in regards to the sex industry and sex-shaming in general. Most people in my life don't know I strip, outside of my family and close friends, but occasionally I do get vocal about my opinions when people make derogatory comments about strippers or a woman off-handedly calls someone a "slut."
On a larger level, for women who are comfortable publicly owning their role in this industry, there is a whole directory of activism groups here: SWAAY (http://www.swaay.org/groups.html) , some of which you can even partake in anonymously.
So yes. There are things that can be done, just like there are things that can be done for racism and homophobia. Awareness and acceptance are not the same things as admitting defeat. And I am aware, and I do accept that things are the way they are, but it doesn't mean I don't believe there aren't ways to change peoples' views and opinions.
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 06:41 PM
Like I said, I kind of understand what you are getting at, but people being victims of advertising has very little to do with a woman losing her job over being a sex worker and society having an unnatural revulsion to sexuality, which far pre-exists modern advertising techniques.
My point was mostly in response to you saying there is nothing that can be done about it. On a micro-level, I do plenty to try and sway the stigma of individuals in regards to the sex industry and sex-shaming in general. Most people in my life don't know I strip, outside of my family and close friends, but occasionally I do get vocal about my opinions when people make derogatory comments about strippers or a woman off-handedly calls someone a "slut."
On a larger level, for women who are comfortable publicly owning their role in this industry, there is a whole directory of activism groups here: , some of which you can even partake in anonymously.
So yes. There are things that can be done, just like there are things that can be done for racism and homophobia. Awareness and acceptance are not the same things as admitting defeat. And I am aware, and I do accept that things are the way they are, but it doesn't mean I don't believe there aren't ways to change peoples' views and opinions.
But its not even something based on the employer's personal opinion/moral beliefs. The employer could be totally fine with a sexworker working there, yet still have to fire the ex-sexworker.. The issue is, the people who are the consumers of the product (i.e. the parents of the children who go to the school you teach at) are not, and that's their choice. They don't have to have their children in that school, they will put them elsewhere, and the school does not want to lose that business because its money taken out of their pocket. Other people's opinions on things are not for you to decide. Some people are religious. A lot actually. And it goes against those teachings, so they don't want a teacher whose going against their own belief system's teachings to teach there. That's why those "non-professional conduct" clauses exist. You sign one before you take the job, agreeing that you have not done and will not do anything listed as "non-professional conduct" and porn is included in that. So essentially, you lied on your application and that's why you get fired for being a sexworker. Its not even about opinions or moral beliefs of the employer themselves. Its about the opinions/moral beliefs of those who consume the product (the parents in the case of the education realm) who end up dictating the morality clauses in order for them to spend money on the service (i.e. enrolling their child in that school).
Racism and a lot of homophobia are a completely different thing. People can look at you and see what your race is. NOT ALL, but a lot of people can look at gay men and deduce from their mannerisms that they are gay (again NOT ALL, but many). With sexworkers, no one can look at you and see that you used to be or are a ex-sexworker. It seems like no one wants to come out as a sexworker, yet they all want equality for sexworkers. Well the first step for this attempt at equality is to walk around and let people know you're a sexworker then. Tell your friends, your family, everyone. If you're keeping it a secret, that really does not help your cause if you're trying to "create awareness."
summerbre
01-16-2013, 06:54 PM
But its not even something based on personal opinion. The employer could be totally fine with a sexworker working there. The issue is, the people who are the consumers of the product (i.e. the parents of the children who go to the school you teach at) are not, and that's their choice. They don't have to have their children in that school, they will put them elsewhere. Other people's opinions on things are not for you to decide. Some people are religious. A lot actually. And it goes against those teachings, so they don't want a teacher whose going against their own belief system's teachings to teach there. That's why those "non-professional conduct" clauses exist. You sign one before you take the job, agreeing that you have not done and will not do anything listed as "non-professional conduct" and porn is included in that. So essentially, you lied on your application and that's why you get fired for being a sexworker. Its not even about opinions or moral beliefs of the employer themselves. Its about the opinions/moral beliefs of those who consume the product (the parents in the case of the education realm) who end up dictating the morality clauses in order for them to spend money on the service (i.e. enrolling their child in that school).
^This is a well-formed argument, and I totally agree with that! And I'm not trying to verbally attack you, by the way, I'm mostly just chiming in with my non-defeatist attitude in regards to these things. The issue I have with this woman losing her job is more associated with the double standard that exists (I mean, the same people "consuming" the "education product" are likely consuming adult entertainment products as well...) and the cruel way in which she was terminated (children writing nasty things on her window, Fox news turning into a high profile story with their own conservative twist on the matter, etc.)
We can sit here and debate the philosophies of morality, society and consumerism all day long. I definitely don't want to. Lol. I just think there's a fine line between simply having "different morals" and OPENLY harassing and penalizing someone for having different morals, which is what happened in this case, and in many others that really just get under my skin.
summerbre
01-16-2013, 06:57 PM
Racism and a lot of homophobia are a completely different thing. People can look at you and see what your race is. NOT ALL, but a lot of people can look at gay men and deduce from their mannerisms that they are gay (again NOT ALL, but many). With sexworkers, no one can look at you and see that you used to be or are a ex-sexworker. It seems like no one wants to come out as a sexworker, yet they all want equality for sexworkers. Well the first step for this attempt at equality is to walk around and let people know you're a sexworker then. Tell your friends, your family, everyone. If you're keeping it a secret, that really does not help your cause if you're trying to "create awareness."
Ok, I get where you are coming from but I just don't think you really want to see where I am coming from. So let's just agree to disagree. Didn't see this edit prior to my last post.
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 06:57 PM
^This is a well-formed argument, and I totally agree with that! And I'm not trying to verbally attack you, by the way, I'm mostly just chiming in with my non-defeatist attitude in regards to these things. The issue I have with this woman losing her job is more associated with the double standard that exists (I mean, the same people "consuming" the "education product" are likely consuming adult entertainment products as well...) and the cruel way in which she was terminated (children writing nasty things on her window, Fox news turning into a high profile story with their own conservative twist on the matter, etc.)
Men have been and would be fired for doing porn also though. The difference is, its not lucrative for men and most men can't even get into it even if they wanted. Its lucrative for women, which sadly, can be the only reason sometimes a woman does it. That's why we don't see more stories about men getting fired for having a sexworker past. If it was just as lucrative for men as it is for women, we would be seeing those types of articles just as much. I don't think its a double standard thing, but I can see how it can seem to be that way since the number of female performers vastly outnumers the number of male performers.
summerbre
01-16-2013, 07:00 PM
^That's not the double standard I was referring to at all. I never said anything about male sex workers. I was talking about the men who purchase the products -- why is it bad to make it, but not bad to consume it? That was my point. If you want to talk about this further we should probably PM, I don't want to monopolize this thread anymore.
ManyRoses
01-16-2013, 07:06 PM
GR - I'm not totally sure I am understanding what you are saying with the last few points. WHO is creating WHAT, exactly?
I think that you are saying that the way sex is used and manipulated by advertising companies/PR companies in order to sell their products leads to a situation where societal views on sex are changed....but I'm not totally sure how that would relate to this case? Or how you think something cannot be changed, if that something is controlled and created by a limited group of people?
Or is it that you are referring to the Freudian concept of id/ego/superego - the idea that all humanity is constantly torn between "base" desires (sex, food, rage, etc) and the desire to seem "socially acceptable", and that conflict leads to hypocritical situations - like this one. Where something like "sex" can be seen as both good (the innate desire to be attractive to others, the use of sex as a positive way to sell things (music, products whatever) and "bad" (slut-shaming, being fired for sex work). This makes some sense, but no longer functions when you consider that "society" is not a fixed state of being - society and societal norms are in constant flux.
Or - maybe - are you simply saying that it is not surprising that this situation came up, because the way that sex is portrayed in modern life is inherently hypocritical - that we are being set up by current societal norms to think in a way that leads to this kind of situation?
In any case - I think that all three cases have some validity, but that none of them ALONE can account for this kind of situation. I also really disagree that nothing can be done about it, or to change it! We have seen HUGE progression in how sex work is viewed in the past 20 years ALONE, and it is all, slowly, moving towards acceptance. I don't think that there is going to be a situation in the next 20 years where I can swan openly into a teaching job at a kindergarten, but I think that eventually we will get there.
I also want to leap up and down waving and pointing at myself when you say "noone wants to come out as a sex worker, but they all want equality.". I am "out" as a sexworker! Fuck yeah! I am out to everyone - and if anyone doesn't currently know, it is just because it hasn't come up. I actively put my face on my blog and aim it at a different target audience than just cam viewers. I am actively trying to get myself into more media to try and present sex work the way I would like it to be seen. The only thing I don't do is give out my real name, and that is simply for safety - if I was an actor or author I would be using a pseudonym as well.
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 07:11 PM
^That's not the double standard I was referring to at all. I never said anything about male sex workers. I was talking about the men who purchase the products -- why is it bad to make it, but not bad to consume it? That was my point. If you want to talk about this further we should probably PM, I don't want to monopolize this thread anymore.
I realize you were saying that. But women purchase porn too. Lesbians especially? Haven't you c2c'ed with a girl before? Honestly, I've been obsessed with porn from a preteen age. While all my friends were idolizing N*Sync, I was idolizing porn stars and fetish models. Porn was originally targeted toward the male consumer, that was the original demographic. Companies have caught on in recent years and have made porn targeted more toward women. It is consumed by both, but probably more by men because they are visually-stimulated creatures whereas women are emotionally-stimulated creatures.
I explained why its "bad" to consume it. The g0v uses this as a control mechanism to control the masses. To make you feel guilty for giving into the very same things you have biological drives to do.
MommieLongLegs
01-16-2013, 07:16 PM
I absolutely see what you are saying, and I personally think the double standard is ridiculous. If camming disqualifies me from being a "good mother," then paying for and even watching porn or cam girls should disqaulify my hubby from being a "good father"- whatever those labels mean, anyway. When you put it in those terms it is completely ridiculous and I don't think any sane person would accuse one of being an unfit parent just because they've seen porn. So what is the difference between watching a naked person and being a naked person?
Unfortunately, when it comes to employment by another person or corporation, that is when things get sticky. It is one thing for a guy paying for adult services to turn around and say, "Hey! That wasn't me! Someone stole my credit card and ordered all these bdsm services without my consent!" But what about the provider, who is usually a female? The woman usually can't just turn around and be like, "Hey! That wasn't me! Someone stole my bank account information, and my social security number, and my photo ID, and changed their hair and body, including tattoos and piercings, to look exactly like me, and THEN they charged people for a service and had the money deposited right into *my* bank account! Fraud!"
See the difference?
I cracked up at that last part lol. That's very true, but even if the guy didn't deny buying porn, he's not getting fired because everyone, including the boss, has probably watched porn at least once.
But, people like to "fake the funk" as I call it lol. I used to sell sex toys, and I told my cousin and she was all like "I don't use toys" and acted like she didn't even know what they were. I'm thinking, girl you started having sex WAY before I did and you're tryna act all innocent and oblivious to sex toys? Please lol.
summerbre
01-16-2013, 07:18 PM
^Lol YES! Which further reiterates my point that there is a double standard because fuck, PORN IS AWESOME and most people I know watch it and aren't ashamed to admit it! So in my ideal world this teacher would be given a pat on the back and maybe even be allowed to speak at her middle school about sex education, exploration during the confusing times of puberty and cautioning them that consumption of porn underage is illegal but that having sexual urges is NOTHING to be ashamed of! (Which I realize is complete fantasy land at this stage of the game but I would've learned a hell of a lot more in sex ed from a porn star than from the prude vagina-hater who gave me misinformation about my menses).
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 07:20 PM
^Lol YES! Which further reiterates my point that there is a double standard because fuck, PORN IS AWESOME and most people I know watch it and aren't ashamed to admit it! So in my ideal world this teacher would be given a pat on the back and maybe even be allowed to speak at her middle school about sex education, exploration during the confusing times of puberty and cautioning them that consumption of porn underage is illegal but that having sexual urges is NOTHING to be ashamed of! (Which I realize is complete fantasy land at this stage of the game but I would've learned a hell of a lot more in sex ed from a porn star than from the prude vagina-hater who gave me misinformation about my menses).
It all comes down to the fact of religion and conservatives. If it goes against your belief system (religion), they are not going to allow it... and don't allow it. And you can't change anyone's belief system. That's why progress on this issue won't be made unless abrahamic religion dies.
summerbre
01-16-2013, 07:27 PM
It all comes down to the fact of religion and conservatives. If it goes against your belief system (religion), they are not going to allow it... and don't allow it. And you can't change anyone's belief system. That's why progress on this issue won't be made unless abrahamic religion dies.
I don't think it needs to die so much as evolve. And I think in some ways it is evolving, and will evolve further. And I think you can change peoples' belief systems simply by educating them and enlightening them -- if you couldn't change peoples' belief systems then there would be no adult religious converts, no Amish people leaving their villages and no Middle Eastern women fighting for their rights because they were raised to think a certain way and therefore must always believe they are an inferior gender.
Peoples' beliefs change every day!!!! That's why education on sexuality is so important, especially for a younger audience, and it's a TERRIBLE message to send those middle school students that their teacher is a "slut" and no longer deserves their respect because she's done something SEXUALLY APPEALING and that somehow makes her less than human. Now I really am done because this is going in circles! Lol.
summerbre
01-16-2013, 07:32 PM
I also want to leap up and down waving and pointing at myself when you say "noone wants to come out as a sex worker, but they all want equality.". I am "out" as a sexworker! Fuck yeah! I am out to everyone - and if anyone doesn't currently know, it is just because it hasn't come up. I actively put my face on my blog and aim it at a different target audience than just cam viewers. I am actively trying to get myself into more media to try and present sex work the way I would like it to be seen. The only thing I don't do is give out my real name, and that is simply for safety - if I was an actor or author I would be using a pseudonym as well.
Rock on woman!! Out of curiosity and for my own education -- what sorts of things do you do to promote a positive view of sex to the public?
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 07:33 PM
I don't think it needs to die so much as evolve. And I think in some ways it is evolving, and will evolve further. And I think you can change peoples' belief systems simply by educating them and enlightening them -- if you couldn't change peoples' belief systems then there would be no adult religious converts, no Amish people leaving their villages and no Middle Eastern women fighting for their rights because they were raised to think a certain way and therefore must always believe they are an inferior gender.
Peoples' beliefs change every day!!!! That's why education on sexuality is so important, especially for a younger audience, and it's a TERRIBLE message to send those middle school students that their teacher is a "slut" and no longer deserves their respect because she's done something SEXUALLY APPEALING and that somehow makes her less than human. Now I really am done because this is going in circles! Lol.
Trust me, as someone who is the child of parents with 2 different cultures/belief systems/religions, evolution just won't happen. Why? Because the conservative/religious ones believe that their sacred text should never ever ever be changed. They think its perfect the way that it is, and anyway who says otherwise is the spawn of satan. You can try to educate them all you want, but all they will say is that you are trying to pull them away from god/jesus/allah/yaweh/whatever major "god" that wrote their sacred text. They will call you the spawn of satan.
You can't change people's belief systems. No one is necessarily wrong or right, and its foolish to think that you are the one who is right (not you, but in general). People can choose to change their beliefs, but the more you try to change those for them, the more they will cling to them and want to stay away from you asap. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their beliefs and you will never be able to change that.
Trust me, I have seen this happen my entire life. The fight between the 2 will never end. The more you try to convince one of them that they are wrong or unenlightened or naive, the more they will cling to their belief system and hate you.
ManyRoses
01-16-2013, 07:36 PM
It all comes down to the fact of religion and conservatives. If it goes against your belief system (religion), they are not going to allow it... and don't allow it. And you can't change anyone's belief system. That's why progress on this issue won't be made unless abrahamic religion dies.
I don't think that it is possible to just blame abrahamic religion and be done with it! After all, there are lots of MODELS who are devout Christians - clearly they don't have a problem with respecting women in porn, or allowing them to go on to other careers! Especially because (contrary to popular fundamentalist belief) these religions do not have a clear set of rules on these things - so it is not the "religion" that is allowing or disallowing a particular behavior, it is an individual and their interpretation of that religion.
And while it may be very difficult to completely change one person's set of beliefs, it is possible to slowly begin to change them, and to watch that change filter and grow over generations. Just look at pre-marital sex! 500 years ago, the thought of ANY person calling themselves a Christian having sex before marriage was just...unthinkable! Whereas now, we have evolved to a point where many christians see no harm in it, while yes, others still think that viriginity is paramount. It IS changing. The concept of "living in sin" was still strong in the 50s, but by the 90s, it was barely even a phrase anymore.
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 07:38 PM
if you couldn't change peoples' belief systems then there would be no adult religious converts, no Amish people leaving their villages and no Middle Eastern women fighting for their rights because they were raised to think a certain way and therefore must always believe they are an inferior gender.
And even that, is based on your own biased perception. That's like, exactly what I'm trying to prove here. That everyone has their own opinions and you can't change them. No one wants to be told their opinions are wrong... because that's what they believe!
32607
And while it would be nice for sexwork to be accepted, in the end it won't be because it is strictly forbidden in so many major religious texts.
GlamourRouge
01-16-2013, 07:41 PM
I don't think that it is possible to just blame abrahamic religion and be done with it! After all, there are lots of MODELS who are devout Christians - clearly they don't have a problem with respecting women in porn, or allowing them to go on to other careers! Especially because (contrary to popular fundamentalist belief) these religions do not have a clear set of rules on these things - so it is not the "religion" that is allowing or disallowing a particular behavior, it is an individual and their interpretation of that religion.
I'm not blaming that. There are several different interpretations of major texts. Its like a spectrum. Some more "lax" in regards to sexwork, some not. But those that have the most conservative opinions will still have those opinions. You can't change people who do not want to change and are happy believing what they are believing.
And while it may be very difficult to completely change one person's set of beliefs, it is possible to slowly begin to change them, and to watch that change filter and grow over generations. Just look at pre-marital sex! 500 years ago, the thought of ANY person calling themselves a Christian having sex before marriage was just...unthinkable! Whereas now, we have evolved to a point where many christians see no harm in it, while yes, others still think that viriginity is paramount. It IS changing. The concept of "living in sin" was still strong in the 50s, but by the 90s, it was barely even a phrase anymore.
Guess whats also correlating with that? Lower overall income for sexworkers. Remember how girls on this board who danced in the 80s and 90s used to talk about the crazy money because it was so taboo back then? Once sexwork stops being taboo, there will be almost no more profit in it at all! Because everyone will be able to get that whenever they want it for the most part. The only thing that will be left will be really inexpensive escorts who charge around minimum wage because its now a socially accepted job to have that anyone can do and there is no longer anything wrong with charging a lower price for it since so many other girls are now offering it for a low price because its accepted and they like doing it. Supply and demand.
Omg I can't keep up lol
Glasses
01-16-2013, 07:43 PM
I have nothing to add to this thead, I only wanted to say this board is 10x more useful to my english than any classes ever been.
ManyRoses
01-16-2013, 07:51 PM
[QUOTE=GlamourRouge;2444577
And while it would be nice for sexwork to be accepted, in the end it won't be because it is strictly forbidden in so many major religious texts.[/QUOTE]
See - the thing is though....there ISN'T a "major religious text"....."The Bible" "The Koran" "The Torah" are not books that were written and preserved in their original form from antiquity until today. And even if they were - have you read them? They can be read and interpreted in a hundred, thousand different ways! Even attempting to read a single translation in the most simple, literal way possible poses a HUGE problem, because there are conflicting statements....
That is why there are priests and rabbis and imams. To effectively translate the message of these books (or the versions of the books that they are using) to the followers of the faith. So if the priest/rabbi/imam changes the way that a particular passage is read, the belief system changes.
This is why there is not one single "christianity" but hundreds of different variants on that faith, each with their own belief system - despite the fact that they are all theoretically working from the same strict religious text.
And that is without getting into the issues of translating ancient sumerian manuscripts through Greek and Latin into old English, and finally modern English. It's like Chinese whispers! It's also without considering that throughout European history, many British kings simple RE-WROTE the bible! Just..published a new version. The King James bible is the best example - he went in and changed a bunch of words to support the witch trials in England.
Or the fact that King Henry the VIII just wrote a whole new bible, and created a whole new CHURCH in order to (yes divorce) but also to free England from Papal rule.
Religious tenats can and do change repeatedly and drastically - but usually sloooowwwllly.
Also, although I am not a bible scholar, I have read the Bible, Koran and Torah, and cannot think of any direct passage or parable forbidding sex work. But I don't exactly have it memorized, so I may well be wrong!
CourtneyRaine
01-16-2013, 07:53 PM
And even that, is based on your own biased perception. That's like, exactly what I'm trying to prove here. That everyone has their own opinions and you can't change them. No one wants to be told their opinions are wrong... because that's what they believe!
32607
And while it would be nice for sexwork to be accepted, in the end it won't be because it is strictly forbidden in so many major religious texts.
Nothing to add, other than, as someone who is part Arab (Egyptian) YES!!!! My Egyptian Aunties would hate knowing I'm a cam girl. I hate seeing how my great aunt got into an arranged marriage for cultural purposes, and 35 years later she's still not independent because her husband is the be and end all in their household. I love my aunt and uncle but to claim that I am worse off than my great aunt because I cam is just absurd. They'd think I am less than a woman because I get naked, most of society would think my great aunty is less than a woman because she kowtows to my great-uncle. Where does the judgement end?
ManyRoses
01-16-2013, 07:57 PM
I'm not blaming that. There are several different interpretations of major texts. Its like a spectrum. Some more "lax" in regards to sexwork, some not. But those that have the most conservative opinions will still have those opinions. You can't change people who do not want to change and are happy believing what they are believing.
Guess whats also correlating with that? Lower overall income for sexworkers. Remember how girls on this board who danced in the 80s and 90s used to talk about the crazy money because it was so taboo back then? Once sexwork stops being taboo, there will be almost no more profit in it at all! Because everyone will be able to get that whenever they want it for the most part. The only thing that will be left will be really inexpensive escorts who charge around minimum wage because its now a socially accepted job to have that anyone can do and there is no longer anything wrong with charging a lower price for it since so many other girls are now offering it for a low price because its accepted and they like doing it. Supply and demand.
Omg I can't keep up lol
OMG I know! We are posting at the same time!! LOL But it is such a great topic!!!
I'll try not to write another screed...
One thing - THE POPE has changed his mind. Seriously - various popes have gone back and altered the Vatican stance on certain topics over the past few hundred years. I can't think of many people more conservative than that!!
Not totally sure how the second point relates....but for the record, I agree. The more that sex work is accepted, the more that the money will even out. I don't think that it will ever become a low-paying job for people who are good and dedicated though - or for people willing to push the boundaries.
People will always pay for sex, because sex is such a basic human need, and desire, and not everyone can get it! Simple as that. And people will also always pay for extremes - fetishes, especially, because even if vanilla sex work is mainstream, the more extreme ends of the spectrum won't be.
But I think that it will balance out. As sex work becomes accepted, it won't be as lucrative. When it is less lucrative, less people will do it. Less people doing it creates less competition, creates more money. Lather, rinse, repeat until you get a balance. I think that eventually it will even out to be the same as any other self-employment - in fact, I think that camming is almost already there! Very talented, dedicated people put a lot in and get a lot out. People who randomly try for a couple months crash and burn. Some people stay for the money, others for the job, some people make 50K a year, some 100K, some 15K. Just like most other industries.
kortneykay
01-16-2013, 08:01 PM
I think it's bullshit because she no longer does it. Not that those who have children and do porn are bad. I don't think kids should be exposed to sex to those extremes but if someone had a life before teaching they should be allowed to follow their passion for teaching children. They already get underpaid, can the board of education be so picky???? How many of those teachers (Sunday school too), community dwellers, pastors, deacons, youth leaders, congressmen, mayors and shall I go on- WATCH pornography?! Okay, so you can beat off or flick your bean to her but she's not fit to teach your students? And how many of them know that the cable/internet companies "the big 6" AKA GE, Time Warner, Disney, Viacom, and CBS which hosts tons of media, magazines, etc actually have their fingers in the porn pudding? HarperCollins writes a LOT of children's books yet is owned by NewsCorp which is owned by Rupert Murdoch who owns a LOT of porn sations/mags, etc. They also support porn by paying their cable/net bill each month and staying in hotels. How many hotel owners and investors who get lots of respect have their big toe in the porn industry. Of course they get a piece of the pie everytime Jimmy and Katie go to the pool with mommy at Disney World and daddy stays in the room to handle his business watching porn on the tv. GTFO! They need to end this! I think we'll have sex worker's rights march/protest one of these years. Equality for ALL unless it's illegal lol.
MommieLongLegs
01-16-2013, 08:10 PM
It all comes down to the fact of religion and conservatives. If it goes against your belief system (religion), they are not going to allow it... and don't allow it. And you can't change anyone's belief system. That's why progress on this issue won't be made unless abrahamic religion dies.
And the same people who throw religion in your face are the same ones who "did dirt" back in the day or still secretly do it. My grandfather was the most judgmental person I knew. He yelled at me one time for reading Harry Potter because of witch craft aka the devil lol.
But, he used to be an alcoholic. Also, I looked through his photo album once, and noticed he was wearing a bright-colored zoot suit with a cane lookin like a pimp or player. I was like "Grandad you look like a pimp" (I was like 10 otherwise I wouldn't have said it lol). He got so mad, but it was true. lol
btw I am a Christian, I just know that no human, no matter how perfect they think they are, is eligible to judge me. But, if I can't work for you (employer), that's fine. I want to be a pastry chef anyway. O, but because of my adult ent past, I can only cater sweets for bachelor parties, right? lol
I'd also like to add that religious people are anti-sex, but sex acts, including a rape and two sisters getting their dad drunk to have sex with him and get pregnant, happened in the first book of the Bible. But, the Bible is not censored and people aren't stopping their kids from reading it because it's the Bible.
A lot of people don't even know that because they only read the verses their pastor tells them to in church on Sunday. I'm reading the Bible from beginning to end and sometimes I'm like "wow this is deep" lol
summerbre
01-16-2013, 08:13 PM
^ Stripper Caterers! Could be quite a lucrative niche... Titties and cocktail weenies! ;)
kortneykay
01-16-2013, 08:59 PM
You ladies have some valid points. I do believe that there will be a time when things change. They already have. I'm in a interracial marriage. Less than 100 years ago, heck 70 years ago that wouldn't have flied at all in the US. I agree, the bible has been changed, books removed, burned, re-written and all that jazz. It says in it to not take things into your own understanding, yet people use it for just those reasons. Slave owners once used it against my ancestors (both black and native american) to keep them in slavery and in bondage. Men used and still do use the bible to remind women that they are to be seen and not heard, that women are not allowed to wear the "cloth" or be the head of the church or household etc. At one time, a gay would be strung up and beaten to death, forget about gay marriage! I see both sides. I agree with you GlamourRouge that the media does take advantage of the physical and emotional needs of men and women and they use that to their advantage. However, every woman and man isn't completely built the same. Some of us have chemical imbalances or things in our past that knocked us off of the "path". And I agree with you as well summerbre- you can change people's perceptions and beliefs but it won't be easy and you will ALWAYS have people who will never budge. If it were impossible to change people's beliefs, multiple religions wouldn't exist. People had to be converted to Christianity, Islam, Satanism, Scientology, Paganism and others to be converted in the first place. But the thing that we face is mainly fear. People are afraid of what will happen if sex workers are given the same rights as others. Fear has always been a big factor in every war we've ever won in history. Women's Rights, Civil Rights...the list goes on. A lot of religions that exist now are only in existence because of fear. Convert, or DIE!
housewench
01-16-2013, 10:08 PM
(-whispers- this is the best thread!)
SarahTime
01-16-2013, 10:16 PM
Gosh I started quite the discussion with this thread! LOVE IT!
Everyone has such great points!
Juliette25
01-17-2013, 01:43 AM
Yeah, it's sad to hear about things like this. If I ever stop camming, I'm just gonna switch to some other work-from-home job(s), such as doing Clips4Sale/ExtraLunchMoney (which I do already, but I'd do it A LOT MORE if I ever stopped camming)...and maybe phone sex.
I wouldn't even try to get my old job at the daycare back...lol. Not that I'd want to go back to a regular 'clock-in, clock-out' job...no, thank you. :)
I also wouldn't bother auditioning for something like American Idol either (yes, I sing)...especially after they disqualified that poor girl Frenchie (with the amazing voice) when they learned that she had previously posed nude...smh. I'm not sure if you guys remember that.
Even though it sucks to read about things like this, I want to thank you, SarahTime, for posting it, because I'm gonna use it as an additional motivator to try to make as much $$$ as I can in this business (webcam, clips, content sales, etc.) for as long as I can. :)
I totally remember when they booted that girl for the topless photos. That's why I'll never be able to go on Hell's Kitchen. *tear*
ShellyConnors
01-17-2013, 02:43 AM
Of course I don't think that being an adult entertainer is a bad thing, but I'm going to take the unpopular opinion and say that it wouldn't necessarily thrill me if a child of mine stumbled upon (or was otherwise exposed to) their teacher in pornographic imagery. Like, I didn't read the article but kids gossip, they show each other shit, the internet is wide open and free and all it would take is one person to find out Mrs. X is a porn star and then tons of kids are exposed to it. I think adult entertainment is great, but I can see why parents wouldn't want their kids being taught by someone who can easily be typed up and seen bent in all kinds of positions getting her back blown out.
I have a male friend who became a teacher. This was back in myspace days. He used to have topless pics on his myspace and stuff like that and one day he said one of his female students found him and started flirting with him, so he took all of that stuff down... and that's not even porn. Porn is just highly sensitive stuff and I think it's inappropriate for students to view their teachers that way. It sucks, but oh well... that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Incantatious
01-17-2013, 06:00 AM
Everyone fucks.
And that is a very, very good thing.
The one thing all of our grandparents, and great grandparents, and great great grandparents - all the way back to the dawn of humanity - had in common, is that they all fucked. It's not hard to see why...
It's intensely pleasurable, it solidifies bonds between people, it populates the Earth, and if not for fucking, humanity wouldn't exist... Many living things wouldn't exit. That is how incredible fucking is.
A camera being present during sex doesn't change that.
Cash being exchanged after sex doesn't change that.
Putting a video on the web doesn't change that.
It's still natural. It still deserves to be celebrated. The world still doesn't get that.
The very thing we all have in common - regardless of race, country, nationality, gender, IQ, religion - is that we all have sexual desires.
But still, people go out of their way to censor it and cover it up as though it's this deplorable stain on the Earth, when if not for it, we wouldn't exist in the first place. A terrible, terrible shame.
BlkSharpie
01-17-2013, 06:51 AM
Of course I don't think that being an adult entertainer is a bad thing, but I'm going to take the unpopular opinion and say that it wouldn't necessarily thrill me if a child of mine stumbled upon (or was otherwise exposed to) their teacher in pornographic imagery. Like, I didn't read the article but kids gossip, they show each other shit, the internet is wide open and free and all it would take is one person to find out Mrs. X is a porn star and then tons of kids are exposed to it. I think adult entertainment is great, but I can see why parents wouldn't want their kids being taught by someone who can easily be typed up and seen bent in all kinds of positions getting her back blown out.
Believe me, as a parent, and having several friends who are teachers, I would be thrilled for my daughter to have a teacher who was good at her job, loved what she did, and taught well...regardless of her history. From a parents point of view, I have heard my daughters experiences with teachers through the years, and had quite a few run ins of my own with them (I HATE open house, but she guilts me into going by reminding me she has to deal with them everyday, the least I could do is meet them for one night....dangit) Kiddo has had to deal with teachers who have no patience level, curse and scream at kids, where she didnt feel comfortable even asking a question, has been teased by the teacher for being too smart and was told to put her hand down if she knew an answer to something... and on the flip has felt bad for her friends who are struggling in class and trying to get help and the teacher blows them off and says they dont have time for it, so shes spent her own lunchtime helping to tutor other kids. I mean...its ridiculous. I know teaching is a hard job, but no matter the politics involved, theres no reason to take it out on the kids. Thats not all of them of course, but Id rather a former adult worker who actually has an interest in education and actually likes children teach my daughter, than some of the crazy, angry people my kid has had to come across.
As for teachers themselves, its not a high paying job at all...on top of that, many of my friends have to buy supplies out of their own pocket. They have to deal with everything from an administration who doesnt always have their back to out of control kids and wacky parents...but at the end of the day no matter how much they have to deal with...they always say how much they love what they do and there are always kids who remind them why they do it. My "adopted" mother is an ESL teacher, I also know a science teacher and a handful of music teachers. Its a tough, underpaid, under appreciated job. For an adult worker to give up the earning potential, time freedom and flexibility of the industry to being a teacher, obviously it means something to them.
I mean of course its your opinion if you dont want a certain type of person teaching your child...you know your child better than anyone else. Personally, I know mine wouldnt find it distracting and would instead be pretty upset to see something like that held against a teacher and would not find it fair or just to see someone get harassed for choices they made in the past. Kids talk and gossip about *everything* from whether a teacher is gay, to a teachers weight, to if they dress "funny" or how they walk blah blah blah... Some kids just have no manners and are cruel and cold hearted... If every time kids snickered and said / did inappropriate things that were distracting from a teachers job that teacher got let go, there wouldnt be any teachers left. Ive been hearing kiddo rant about rude kids for 10 yrs now, a little more respect for themselves, their classmates, and the adults whos job is to *teach* would go a long way... if there was more of that, there would be a lot less dynamic problems.
Fifteen years ago, i worked with a guy who was the educational director at our TV station. By his second day on the job, I went out for a smoke break, and he was out there in tears... Hes gay, and he overheard our directors assistant comment that she cant believe he went into education and wanted to be a teacher, that shed never want her kids to have a gay teacher, and she had her doubts about him being around kids who come to visit the station. I was completely floored...granted I came from California and most of my friends were gay...it never occurred to me before that day that anyone would feel that way.
So yeah, I get it and understand that there are in fact parents who feel certain people are not qualified to be good at their job based on their own personal feeling against them, but me personally? Im beyond thrilled to have someone who actually cares, is a good teacher and wants to encourage, get my kid excited about learning which would make a good impact on her future...
christinarita
01-17-2013, 07:17 AM
But, people like to "fake the funk" as I call it lol. I used to sell sex toys, and I told my cousin and she was all like "I don't use toys" and acted like she didn't even know what they were. I'm thinking, girl you started having sex WAY before I did and you're tryna act all innocent and oblivious to sex toys? Please lol.
That is so silly. Why would anyone even deny that they want to experience pleasure??!!! Repression is very strange...
christinarita
01-17-2013, 07:19 AM
It all comes down to the fact of religion and conservatives. If it goes against your belief system (religion), they are not going to allow it... and don't allow it. And you can't change anyone's belief system. That's why progress on this issue won't be made unless abrahamic religion dies.
Abrahamic religion...interesting. I had never heard that term before. But I was just reading bits of the old testament. I guess he had several wives and lived to be over 900 years, or so the story goes. Definite patriarch. Speaking of which, what about the woman who was fired in Brooklyn recently for being too beautiful?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/sexy-new-york-woman-fired-busty-article-1.1082045
Smurfette
01-17-2013, 09:02 AM
The Abrahamic religions refer to the three religions that started with Abraham and branched off: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. IMO they are the primary cause of all this sexual repression, and responsible for the subjugation of women for the past two thousand years. I don't understand how any self-respecting woman can follow a religion that blatantly tells her she is lesser than a man, she cannot exist on her own but was MADE specifically FOR the man, must submit to her husband and refer to him in all things, must not speak in church, etc. Eve was the first transgressor. She ate the apple and that act alone solidifies women's roles as lesser beings. It's so easy to oppress half the population when GOD HIMSELF deems them inferior and tells them their role in life is to be slaves to the other half of the population.
I know there are a lot of liberal denominations that don't take the Bible literally and gloss over the nasty parts of it to emphasize on Jesus and his positive message. That's fine, but I find it incredibly difficult to shut myself off from all of the bigotry and hatred within its pages, especially when I know the effect it's had on society for so many years.