View Full Version : Are there clubs that only have traveling dancers?
Twin Tattoo
02-16-2013, 03:34 PM
A bump in the road...
Actually, two bumps in the road, a reality check, and then a remembering.
First Bump: The son of one of the owners who owns a sliver of land (given to him by his parents) in the compound was told today by the realtor (NOT his parents!) about his parents and the other owners wanting to sell the entire compound to me and how I was going to auction off all the houses to clear the property for the club. The realtor said he freaked. Literally lost it. Screamed. Ran around in a circle. She swears it was as if she shot his dog right then and there. Once he stopped screaming and swearing, he ignored her, called his parents, and begged them not to sell. They told him they wanted to retire. He then accused them of tossing him out into the street. She said it went down hill from there and spared me the rest of the scene.
After he had his big temper tantrum, the realtor pointed out to him that he still owned the little sliver of land and that I would pay nicely for it. She explained that I would need his piece of land as it literally divides the compound in half. That's when the realtor said the son stared at her, soaked it in, and then laughed like Batman's Joker. He then said, "If Mom and Dad want to retire, so do I!" He said he'd only sell for an insane amount of money. More than enough for him to retire in style. More than what his parents and the other owners are asking COMBINED. She tried to talk reason into him but it was of no use. After a bit, he held up his hand to silence her, got out his cellphone, called his lawyer, and walked out of his trailer home to talk to him. After a long time, he came back in and handed her the cellphone. The lawyer was now representing the son and she was now to only talk to him. The lawyer actually INCREASED how much the son was previously asking for his sliver of land. [Probably the lawyer's fee.]
The son thinks he has me over a barrel. He is right that I cannot do my club there without his sliver of property.
Second Bump: I heard from one of the "in the know" people today about the new luxury house that has just been built (its driveway is still gravel and no landscaping has yet been done to the lawn) that is with 300 feet of the grandfather-claused-in restaurant. The owner of it is another son. A son of the former chairman of the township council that I would have to get approval from to change the zoning of the restaurant so I could bring in a stripclub. The house is a gift from the father to son and is supposedly the son's "dream house" that he's always wanted. Being the former chair of the township council, the father is a very formidable rich opponent and knows how to work the levers of government to his advantage. So my "in the know" person said that if I wanted to do the club at the restaurant/motel location, I'd have to pay another fortune to buy the new house from the son.
Reality Check: And if the above wasn't bad enough, I then get a phone call from the architect after the above calls from the realtor and "in the know" person. The architect thinks it is insane to do what I'm proposing. Most of my investment money will be burned. It goes to deleting assets and not building them. Three houses and a trailer home that I will lose a LOT of money on when I auction them off. The removal of the homes make the lots of land almost worthless. More value destroyed. And then there is the gutting a restaurant of its kitchen, bathrooms, and HUGE bar. And what I am left with is a poor quality "roach motel" and an empty shell of a building that was once the restaurant. And in a rural community that is white trash and hardly a place you should put a high-end stripclub.
On top of that, the architect took a peek above the dropped ceiling. There isn't that much space there. There is barely enough empty space for the air ducts, piping for the fire sprinkler system, and wiring that runs through it. Thus if the gutted restaurant is used as the club's main floor area, it will be a pain for the architect to try to make it work. There's a low load-bearing center beam running the entire length from east to west. The catwalk stage will have to be low or the dancers will bump their heads on the beam OR they will have to perform to one side of it and be partially hidden from half of the club.
The architect says it would be FAR better and cheaper to build from scratch on an empty lot.
Remembering: And this is when I remembered the county zoning administrator commenting that if I were to locate the club in a different nearby township, I would have no trouble bringing in such a club. That township is "lawless" and "anything goes there." And if I were able to find a lot of land right over the township line, it would even be closer to Dubuque than the restaurant/motel and, as far as driving directions go, it will also sound closer to Dubuque since Dubuque residents would get off on Exit 1 instead of Exit 2 to get to it. He made such comments a few times in our conversations. I was too focused on the restaurant/motel to get his hints. :dunce:
I told the architect what the zoning administrator told me and he knew of that area and said that we should check it out. It is riddled with wooded creek valleys that is poor farm land but might be ideal for a high-end stripclub and cheap to buy. I could then locate the club deep up into a valley so no one can even see the parking lot from the county highway. Bring in trees, tall bushes, and discreetly install security fencing and I don't even need to roof the parking lot to keep nosy people (private dicks) from seeing who comes in and out of the club.
Then the housing for the dancers could be located further up the valley to be out of sight of the club and made into a decent residence hall. Doughnut shape with an indoor swimming pool in the center with all rooms opening into this inner pool area. The outer windows of the rooms could be done "stained glass" style so they allow light in but not allow anyone to look into the rooms and the "lead" framing of the stained glass could actually be high-strength steel that would make it nearly impossible for someone to break in via the windows. Better security for the dancers. Covered walkway to the club. A better security guard post at the residence hall where it connects to the covered walkway.
As for the club, it can be built from scratch to be exactly what I want it to be. The dancers' dressing room and dancers' restroom could be located on the second floor of the club with a fireman pole to the center of a five-point starfish catwalk. Impressive way for a dancer to make an entrance on stage. Spiral staircases then going up to the dancers' area can be located next to the bouncer stations so no patron "accidentally" wanders upstairs. By the dancers' residence hall being further up the valley, it would be at a higher elevation and thus the covered walkway could become a covered walking bridge to the second floor of the club when it gets close to the club. Due to handicap laws, he said I'd probably have to install an elevator to the dancers' floor but I could then use that elevator to go down into the ground to a VERY secure outer manager's office and an even more secure Fort Knox office. The "button" to the Fort Knox office could require a key or, better yet, a thumb print or retinal scan. He said we could also put roofless "penthouse" VIP areas on the roof that the elevator could take patrons and dancers to so the dancers could entertain the patrons under the stars on warm nights. Or even cold nights by heating the lounge chairs. And the "beer" garden could be made to look "fantastic" since I would then own the valley and he could install lighting among the trees to make it a beautiful night-time vision for patrons sitting in the "beer" garden to enjoy. Make the tree lighting controllable multi-color lighting and the view should be "mind blowing."
Given all of the above, I'm right now off to meet up with the architect and we're going to go scouting the new township for possible locations.
Melonie: I will reply to your latest post when I get back.
Twin Tattoo
02-17-2013, 12:50 AM
Well, it has been quite a night. Met up with the architect and we scouted out the neighboring township. Just as he said, lots of wooded creek valleys along the county highway. However....
As we were leaning against his red Porsche 911 looking at a wooded creek valley, I started to reassess the whole situation. This place seemed truly out in rural nowhere ... whereas the "old" restaurant/motel was smack in the middle of white trash breeding grounds. If I wanted to bring in a high-end club, it dawned on me that the best nearby place to do that would be on either the east or west side of Galena, Illinois. Galena is a half hour away from Dubuque, but, even more importantly, it is where high-earning middle-age Chicagoans go for the weekend. And then it dawned on me further that on the far east side of Galena was a upper-middle-class massive resort: The Galena Territory (http://www.thegalenaterritory.com/)
I mentioned this to the architect and his reaction was, "Of course!"
We traveled to the resort and had dinner in one of their fine restaurants. [And all of their restaurants are fine. Not a single fast food restaurant in the entire resort.] The resort has 63 holes of golf and a private lake. You name it and it has it ... EXCEPT a high-end stripclub. }:D Every week and weekend, hundreds of men come in groups to play its golf courses. No wives. Just men. And there's nothing really to do once it gets dark! Aside from going to Galena and eating in one of their fine restaurants and talking about the golf they played that day.
Leaving my out-of-place mini-van in the restaurant's parking lot, I got into the architect's car and he started slowly driving around the massive resort while I started calling my potential investors for the stripclub. Every single one of them LOVED the idea of doing it in Galena and as close to the doorstep of the mega resort as possible.
However, if I were to do it here, it would have to be a super high-end stripclub. The architect agreed. Top shelf all the way. It would have to be on par with the best stripclubs that Chicago has to offer, if not better. These people have major money to drop and wouldn't settle for less. Every weekend MANY groups of four to twenty-four well-off golfers (all men!) commonly come there to play and do so many times over the year. And these are not the "politically correct" crowd. Elitists and snobs, yes. But they like to consider themselves manly men.
We walked into one of the hotels and chatted up the very attractive front desk gal. [ALL the female employees were very attractive.] I tossed out to her that I thought the resort was seasonal. People mainly coming to play golf and when they cannot, the place becomes a ghost town. She said that wasn't the case and pointed to all the hotel guests around us. The resort hosts lots of conferences and conventions during the winter months. She said guys who play golf during the warm months love to come to the resort during the cold months for conferences just to be near the links. This is something the resort management aggressively works on and is now taking hold.
As we walked out of the hotel, the architect flatly said, "This crowd would want a $100 cover charge to keep out the riff-raff." I replied, "You mean the locals." And he said, "Yup." And I said, "And they wouldn't bat an eyelash at such a cover charge." He agreed. But what he wondered is if I could attract enough of the caliber of traveling dancers these men would demand. As he said, "They won't settle for less than a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 ... if not expect 11s and 12s or even higher."
And I will need to bring in more investors to do such a club and upgrade my plans for it. Bathroom attendants in white marble men's restrooms would be just for starters. I'll have to get a top-notch wine steward and a very extensive and expensive wine cellar (the cellar alone will probably require me to drop a million dollars into it) as these guys will know their wines ... and hard liquor ... and cigars. Which means I'll also have to hire a top-notch tobacconist to man the cigar humidor and the humidor itself will need to be large and not some walk-in closet. And then I'll need to have the wine steward and tobacconist educate the dancers on Sunday on wines and cigars so they don't come across as airheads to the patrons. If the dancers can show they are wine and cigar connoisseurs (or at least do a good job at faking it), wine and cigar sales will go through the roof.
And gone are the "typical" mirrored walls of a high-end stripclub. I'll probably need to have pretty much all the walls be neon waterfall walls. The water of the waterfalls heated to not cool down the club. As for the floor, gone are the green marble tiles. Possibly put in a soft-lit floor. The floor and walls being the only light sources in the room. A neat visual effect of this set-up is that it gives patrons in even the main floor more privacy as it makes everyone further than six feet away look like a silhouette. And by making the walls and floor multi-color, they could greatly add to the stage performances by matching the color of the lit stage.
Forget crocodile leather upholstery. I'll have to go with furs. The more exotic, the better.
And then there are the VIP rooms. I'd probably have them also have neon waterfall walls and soft-lit floors. What would make each unique would be the fur used for their chair(s). Rooms likely named after the fur used for the chair. I asked the architect if I can make a waterfall door for the VIP rooms. He said he'll look into it. If I can, it would be a unique door. There's no actual physical door. Just a solid wall of falling water. Though transparent, the water will majorly distort the view of anyone looking through it so those inside the VIP room will feel and have privacy. The waterfall "door" turned off for the dancer and patron to enter and then turned back on once they're inside. Naturally, controls of the waterfall door being both inside and outside the room.
I'd put the dancers' dressing room and dancers' restroom on the second floor with a firehouse pole down to the center of a five-point starfish catwalk. Catwalk lit up like the main floor and also can do multi-colors. Put stripper poles at the five points of the catwalk. Gold plate all of them and the firehouse pole. I could also look into making the firehouse pole be the piston of a hydraulic cylinder. That way at the end of a dancer's stage performance, she can stand on a small circular platform welded to the piston and be raised back into the ceiling. That would be a neat way to do one's exit. Waving to all the applauding patrons as she's lifted up. Hell, if a dancer is afraid of sliding down the firehouse pole (piston), the dancer could hop on the circular platform after the last dancer gets off it and ride it down to the catwalk.
As for housing the traveling dancers, the doughnut residence hall I talked about in the previous post for the traveling dancers would still be done BUT maybe locate it a few miles away. I'd then buy a shuttle bus to transport the dancers to and from the club. I cannot have any rust bucket of a dancer's car be in the parking lot. I'd still have 24/7 security at the residence hall.
Oh well. Lots to think about. Any input on the above would be appreciated.
Melonie
02-17-2013, 06:30 AM
^^^ I really don't need to think about it. One of the most lucrative clubs I ever worked at was located in a recreational area in southern Michigan whose clientele of vacationing businessmen came from Chicago, Ann Arbor, South Bend etc. I happened to be there on the night that David Packard walked in with a bunch of lawyers and accountants after just selling his partnership shares in Hewlett Packard ( and the least amount of money any dancer in the club walked out with that night was like 5 grand !!! ). The moral of the story, of course, is that upscale attracts upscale.
What you're suggesting basically boils down to testing the theory of 'if you build it, they will come' ! Yes there are obviously a fair number of travelling dancers who would meet your upscale standards. However, those 10's - 11's - 12's are already able to pick and choose among a long list of potential clubs ... from Manhattan to Atlanta to Vegas just to name a few ... where these girls already know that there is a customer base / earnings potential that they can absolutely count on. Pursuading them to 'take a chance' on a new club ... no matter how fantastic of a scenario this might be ... will be an uphill battle. And these 'best of the best' travelling dancers may not be thrilled with the idea that the club area will lack the 'amenities' which they can pursue during non-working hours that Manhattan or Vegas has to offer ( with the only unique thing your location has to offer is four feet of snow !!! ).
Since you don't appear to shy away from big budget projects, I'm going to suggest the following ... in the hopes of 'killing two birds with one stone'. Approach Scores, Penthouse, Rick's etc. about the costs of buying a franchise. A. doing so would send the absolute upscale message you need to send to the resort area and potential club customers. B. having such a franchise would not only reduce doubts among 'independent' top shelf travelling dancers, but would also give you an inside track to 'poaching' top shelf dancers already working for other clubs in these chains. Truthfully, with the kind of money you're talking about investing in this extremely upscale 'green field' new club, and with the probable difficulty you're going to experience in trying to attract top-notch talent to come and work at this club ( at least for the first year until 'word' gets around ), I wouldn't attempt it as an independent club.
Back to your previous plan, that could easily be attempted as an independent club because, frankly, the expected customer base was small enough, and there are enough travelling dancers who are 8's or 9's, to pretty much guarantee no difficulties in attracting a sufficient number of dancers to allow your club to operate. However by taking the leap to a super high end club in a ka-ching resort area, I doubt that a club sized for 20 dancers would provide sufficient 'critical mass'. If you're talking about conventioners, golf partners etc., who are used to being treated extremely well by the hotel / golf course service staff, they will NOT take kindly to being forced to wait while dancers are performing for other customers or being forced to wait until a VIP room for a foursome of golf buddies becomes available. So right out of the chute I would guess that you're looking at a club scaled up for 40 dancers not 20. However, finding 40 top notch travelling dancers with the social and 'sales' skills to successfully interact with high society uber-rich club customers - as well as travelling dancers who must also 'measure up' to your requirements for 10's - is no trivial task. Convincing them to stop working the upscale club circuit they are already familar with, and already have confidence in re earnings potential, to try out your new club instead is a major hurdle. And that hurdle could be made even higher because an 'exodus' of 40 top shelf travelling dancers away from established upscale big city clubs toward your independent resort area club is more than likely to result in co-ordinated 'black-balling' by said upscale big city clubs. Extremely few travelling dancers are going to take the chance to come and try out your new club if it comes at the 'price' of being told by the established big city clubs that 'if you go to work at new club XYZ, don't every bother coming back to this club again !".
Again, the mildly upscale 20 dancer independent club being discussed previously, requiring 20 travelling dancers who are 8's or better, wasn't going to make a big enough impact on the strip club business as a whole that any 'major players' were likely to take notice. A super-upscale club, requiring 40 travelling dancers who are all 10's, is a different story ... since the absence of those top shelf dancers WILL be noticed by existing super-upscale clubs from coast to coast. And those clubowners have money, connections, etc. at their disposal which could potentially result in severe nastiness if your new entry into their volumetrically small 'niche' market ( albeit a huge dollar market ) is handled poorly.
I'll take a wild guess and offer that there are perhaps 5,000 travelling dancers currently working in the USA who would meet the qualifications of your mildly upscale 20 dancer club. However, this translates into just 500 travelling dancers who would meet the higher 'standards' of your new super-upscale club. Thus you're really talking about attempting to 'hijack' some 8% of all available US travelling dancers which are able to meet your 'standards' !!!! That WILL be noticed !!! Thus doing so under 'cover' of a recognized upscale club chain franchise would go a long way to reduce potential nasty surprises and staffing problems.
Unfortunately, going the franchise route is also likely to impose restraints in regard to your business model, your club's physical facilies and layout, etc. Thus you appear to be facing a 'crossroads' and need to decide whether your ability to operate as an independent club is of paramount importance. If so, then I would rethink an all-out attempt at a super-upscale club because, frankly, I don't think that you'll be able to find the quality and quantity of dancers necessary for it to operate without disappointing the expectations of the targeted super-upscale clientele. And once THOSE customers have been disappointed, you'll be left with a huge 'nut' to cover your investors and a downscale local clientele from which to try and extract those club profits.
You might also ask your obviously 'connected' architect whether or not a 'reservations only' PRIVATE club ... on the original scale of 20 girls ... would 'fly' with the super-upscale customers in that area. This business model would be a little different ... i.e. almost 100% VIP room oriented ... and would also tap into a different 'talent pool' i.e. escorts.
Twin Tattoo
02-17-2013, 10:40 PM
The moral of the story, of course, is that upscale attracts upscale.
Precisely. If you want to sell expensive jewelry, your shop cannot look like a Five-and-Dime (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-five-and-dime.htm).
What you're suggesting basically boils down to testing the theory of 'if you build it, they will come' !
Which as a marketing consultant is something I have ALWAYS warned clients against. :P
Pursuading them [top-tier dancers] to 'take a chance' on a new club ... no matter how fantastic of a scenario this might be ... will be an uphill battle.
What about guaranteeing them an income for the week? They don't make at least $X and the club will make up the difference. And $X not taking in consideration of any tips they receive from patrons. Just what the club would keep track of (and have to report to the IRS). I would look at it as "merely" a start-up cost of opening such a club. Until the club has a proven track record of producing at least that level of revenue for each dancer, it is willing to put its money where its mouth is and guarantee they'll make that amount or the club will make up the difference.
If this is a possible solution, how much would $X need to be for a week for one of these top-tier dancers? Melonie? Shanna Dior? Anyone? Any guesses?
And how long would it take to establish a track record so such a guarantee system wouldn't be needed anymore? Six months? A year?
And these 'best of the best' travelling dancers may not be thrilled with the idea that the club area will lack the 'amenities' which they can pursue during non-working hours that Manhattan or Vegas has to offer ( with the only unique thing your location has to offer is four feet of snow !!! ).
Well, it isn't that bad. Galena is a mecca for Chicago's upper middle class for a reason. It is a very beautiful city, has a rich history, and great shops. It is almost a real-world Diagon Alley for middle-age upper-class people. Check out the following three links for more on it:
Galena.org (http://galena.org/)
VisitGalena.org (http://www.visitgalena.org/)
DowntownGalena.com (http://www.galenadowntown.com/)
And four feet of snow is great if the dancer loves to ski. ;D
Since you don't appear to shy away from big budget projects, I'm going to suggest the following ... in the hopes of 'killing two birds with one stone'. Approach Scores, Penthouse, Rick's etc. about the costs of buying a franchise.
Maybe. However, I have a personal dislike for franchises of any kind. You have to do it their way ... period. They drown you in red tape and threaten to strangle you with it if you DARE deviate from their formula. They view anything you say as coming out of the mouth of an idiot. They have a "proven" way of making a successful business and think they can just use a cookie cutter to make successful replicas where they like. Just look at the major pains McDonald's franchisees had in introducing some of McDonald's most successful menu items. From the Big Mac to the Egg McMuffin to McFish Sandwich. Given this, I have very rarely ever recommended an entrepreneur to become a franchisee. Adjusting to your local environment is crucial for any business and franchises rarely let you do that. That and I have not heard great things about any of those stripclub franchises you listed from industry consultants. Just the opposite. Lots of the opposite.
A. doing so would send the absolute upscale message you need to send to the resort area and potential club customers.
There are other ways. For example, hiring a renown architect to design the club and getting the club's building on the cover of Architectural Digest (http://www.architecturaldigest.com/) is one of those ways. Or at minimum as a featured story inside.
B. having such a franchise would not only reduce doubts among 'independent' top shelf travelling dancers,...
Again, what about guaranteeing $X revenue for the week?
...but would also give you an inside track to 'poaching' top shelf dancers already working for other clubs in these chains. Truthfully, with the kind of money you're talking about investing in this extremely upscale 'green field' new club, and with the probable difficulty you're going to experience in trying to attract top-notch talent to come and work at this club ( at least for the first year until 'word' gets around ), I wouldn't attempt it as an independent club.
I hear ya. I do. Again, I just dislike franchises and their strait jackets.
However by taking the leap to a super high end club in a ka-ching resort area, I doubt that a club sized for 20 dancers would provide sufficient 'critical mass'.
Unless I raise the cover charge even higher to further weed out potential patrons. I talked to a Galena realtor today who suggested a $1,000 cover charge could easily fly. I'm not saying she's wrong, but I've never heard of such a high cover charge. Has anyone heard of such?
If you're talking about conventioners, golf partners etc., who are used to being treated extremely well by the hotel / golf course service staff, they will NOT take kindly to being forced to wait while dancers are performing for other customers or being forced to wait until a VIP room for a foursome of golf buddies becomes available.
Agreed. Only fires and police raids empty stripclubs faster than no dancers in sight.
So right out of the chute I would guess that you're looking at a club scaled up for 40 dancers not 20.
Yeah, that's my read of it too.
However, finding 40 top notch travelling dancers with the social and 'sales' skills to successfully interact with high society uber-rich club customers - as well as travelling dancers who must also 'measure up' to your requirements for 10's - is no trivial task.
Never thought it would be. From the start of thinking of doing it at this new location, I knew getting top-tier dancers would be the hardest part of the business.
And what about running a Sunday workshop for new dancers to the club? I was planning on doing that anyway with the wines and cigars. The chief wine steward and the chief tobacconist educating the dancers. I could bring in a speech coach to do some quick and dirty speech training. I was also planning on setting up deals with a local dentistry clinic for teeth whitening (and capping if needed); nail salon for manicures and pedicures; hair salon for cuts, dyes, and perms; dermatology clinic for laser tattoo and/or birth mark removals; optometry clinic for new contact lens (even colored ones for those with 20/20 vision); and even massage therapy clinics for full-body Swedish massages. Hell, I'd pop for any plastic surgery that doesn't leave a scar too. All done on Sunday and Monday. The club's would be closed on Sundays and opens at 6 pm on Monday.
Convincing them to stop working the upscale club circuit they are already familar with, and already have confidence in re earnings potential, to try out your new club instead is a major hurdle.
Couldn't my club just be added to their circuit? Why is it an all-or-nothing situation?
And that hurdle could be made even higher because an 'exodus' of 40 top shelf travelling dancers away from established upscale big city clubs toward your independent resort area club is more than likely to result in co-ordinated 'black-balling' by said upscale big city clubs. Extremely few travelling dancers are going to take the chance to come and try out your new club if it comes at the 'price' of being told by the established big city clubs that 'if you go to work at new club XYZ, don't every bother coming back to this club again !". [snip] A super-upscale club, requiring 40 travelling dancers who are all 10's, is a different story ... since the absence of those top shelf dancers WILL be noticed by existing super-upscale clubs from coast to coast. And those clubowners have money, connections, etc. at their disposal which could potentially result in severe nastiness if your new entry into their volumetrically small 'niche' market ( albeit a huge dollar market ) is handled poorly.
So what can I do to make my entry agreeable to the "major players" ... of whom I would be eventually planning on joining as one?
Is there something I can do bring in more women who can be top-tier dancers? I'm not opposed to spending money on a little industry development.
Or I can upgrade 9s into 10s? I cannot inject smarts into a bimbo's head, but boob and nose jobs are just a bank check away from being done.
I'll take a wild guess and offer that there are perhaps 5,000 travelling dancers currently working in the USA who would meet the qualifications of your mildly upscale 20 dancer club. However, this translates into just 500 travelling dancers who would meet the higher 'standards' of your new super-upscale club. Thus you're really talking about attempting to 'hijack' some 8% of all available US travelling dancers which are able to meet your 'standards' !!!! That WILL be noticed !!! Thus doing so under 'cover' of a recognized upscale club chain franchise would go a long way to reduce potential nasty surprises and staffing problems.
What if I become a feeder club? A club that brings in new dancers and/or upgrades lower dancers and thus increasing the supply to match the increased demand?
Of course, the next question would then be: How do you become a feeder club? :D Is or can there be such a thing for top-tier dancers?
I hate being passive. I much prefer being proactive.
Unfortunately, going the franchise route is also likely to impose restraints in regard to your business model, your club's physical facilies and layout, etc.
My thoughts EXACTLY!!! >:(
Thus you appear to be facing a 'crossroads' and need to decide whether your ability to operate as an independent club is of paramount importance. If so, then I would rethink an all-out attempt at a super-upscale club because, frankly, I don't think that you'll be able to find the quality and quantity of dancers necessary for it to operate without disappointing the expectations of the targeted super-upscale clientele. And once THOSE customers have been disappointed, you'll be left with a huge 'nut' to cover your investors and a downscale local clientele from which to try and extract those club profits.
Nah, I'd just shut down the club. The investors I have so far all understand this. I have made sure NONE are risking money they cannot risk. It might sound counter-intuitive but it actually helps bring in investors: when I pitch an investor, I stress this is a gamble. If they think they will get upset if it fails, I don't want them as an investor. And for this project, they have to prove to me that they're not gambling their retirement fund on this.
And there are benefits to being an investor ("one of the owners") of a stripclub that they will be "profiting" from that goes beyond a monetary ROI. Every single one of my current potential investors are either never-married or divorced. They think it is cool to be one of the owners of a stripclub. Rat Pack (http://cavemancircus.com/2011/02/09/how-to-be-cool-take-some-cues-from-the-rat-pack-25-pictures/) cool. No, they won't be handling the day-to-day shit nor even trying to crack the marketing nut that I will be doing, but so what? If a little fantasizing, bragging, and/or showing off on their part makes them happy with their low-yield (if any yield) investment, what's wrong with that? Isn't the ENTIRE stripclub industry BUILT on fantasy? :cloud9:
You might also ask your obviously 'connected' architect whether or not a 'reservations only' PRIVATE club ... on the original scale of 20 girls ... would 'fly' with the super-upscale customers in that area. This business model would be a little different ... i.e. almost 100% VIP room oriented ... and would also tap into a different 'talent pool' i.e. escorts.
Are you talking about a disguised brothel?
If not, please elaborate. Hell, elaborate either way and I'll take notes. :writing:
Twin Tattoo
02-17-2013, 11:18 PM
And what about servicing all fetishes? While Asians, Big Tits, Blondes, Contortionists, and Twins/Triplets always bank, what about offering off-the-main-menu women? And not just the token redheads and blacks, but what about Arabians, BBWs, Bodybuilders, Emos/Goths, Flat-chested Petites (of legal age but looking underage), Giants (6'3" or taller), Hispanics, Little Women (under 4'10" and properly proportioned), and Tattooed & Pierced? Maybe the BBWs, bodybuilders, emos/goths, flat-chested petites, and tattooed & pierced not doing stage shows as they might turn off most patrons but just working the main floor. I know guys who are into each of these types. Why not offer them? Then again, are they now being offered in clubs? Are "deviant" fetishes now accepted in the stripclub scene? What about at the super high-end stripclub scene?
charlotte.
02-18-2013, 02:33 AM
although this thread has essentially wandered off into the absurd, I feel compelled to contribute-
1) fur is a terrible choice for any club, much less a strip club.
2) I would never travel anywhere that doesnt also double as a vacation city (lv, miami, nyc) for less than $1k/day. I might be willing to go to this hypothetical club for $5k for the week provided I didnt have to spend an entire day in some sort of pygmalion training.
Melonie
02-18-2013, 04:38 AM
Are you talking about a disguised brothel?
Well virtually every strip club is a disguised brothel, isn't it ? But no what I am talking about is a truly PRIVATE ... or should I say EXCLUSIVE club ... that is not open to the public and requires the purchase of an annual membership just like your super-upscale golf course ( with paid members being able to invite guests ... with a large cover charge required for the guests of course ! ). I have only seen this business model implemented a handful of times, and only once in the USA. However, this business model would ...
A. absolutely eliminate the 'riff-raff' concerns of your high roller customers
B. reduce the 'critical mass' factor in regard to physical club size and number of dancers required
C. almost totally avoid any potential 'bible-thumper' induced zoning problems
D. minimize potential negative reaction by the major competitors in the super-upscale niche ... since you won't be directly competing for 'walk-in' customers.
E. almost totally eliminate any potential LE problems regardless of actual club activities
As to your proposed 'dancer university' that's a fantastic idea.
In regard to 'inducements' to attract new dancers, you actually mentioned something that used to take place occasionally, but which has been abandoned as the strip club industry in general has gone 'downhill'. And that is a contractual agreement that the club will provide cosmetic procedures ... from teeth veneers to breast implants to nose jobs ... in exchange for the dancer contractually agreeing to work for your club ... and ONLY your club ... for some time period.
Doing this would also allow you to 'lock in' both the top shelf dancers you require, and their status as 10's, PRIOR to the club actually opening. Keep in mind that a significant percentage of dancers would love to have various cosmetic procedures done ... BUT ... putting up the up-front cost for said procedures, on top of being 'laid up' for a month of recuperation thus sacrificing their income for that month, serves as an obstacle. If you were to offer dancers 'free' cosmetic procedures, PLUS 4 weeks worth of paid recuperation in your dancer residence ( and being educated by your 'dancer university' instructers during that time), in exchange for some time period's worth of work at your new club, I bet that you wouldn't have ANY problems with initial club staffing !!!
And once the word gets out from your initial group of 'recruits' that working at your club is a proverbial 'gold mine', you should have created a situation where other dancers will be approaching YOU to join the next 'class' !!!
Also, this might very well lead to a couple of local plastic surgeons joining your new club's investor list !!!
Twin Tattoo
02-18-2013, 07:16 AM
although this thread has essentially wandered off into the absurd, I feel compelled to contribute-
Thanks for letting us know you're posting under duress.
1) fur is a terrible choice for any club, much less a strip club.
Why?
If there is a practical reason, do tell.
If it is because furs are politically incorrect, stripclubs are already politically incorrect so I'm fine with being even more politically incorrect. That and the VAST majority of men who go to stripclubs aren't PETA members.
2) I would never travel anywhere that doesnt also double as a vacation city (lv, miami, nyc) for less than $1k/day.
Actually, Galena is considered to be a very nice vacation destination by many. But it just might not be what you consider to be a vacation destination.
I might be willing to go to this hypothetical club for $5k for the week provided I didnt have to spend an entire day in some sort of pygmalion training.
I have no problem with dancers testing out. But if you cannot and won't accept training, this club would likely then not be a good fit for you.
Twin Tattoo
02-18-2013, 08:30 AM
Well virtually every strip club is a disguised brothel, isn't it ?
Like everyone who accepts a paycheck is a whore. ;)
But no what I am talking about is a truly PRIVATE ... or should I say EXCLUSIVE club ... that is not open to the public and requires the purchase of an annual membership just like your super-upscale golf course ( with paid members being able to invite guests ... with a large cover charge required for the guests of course ! ).
I could see the exclusive nature being attractive to this type of clientele. It does have an inherit risk of not getting enough members to make it a viable business ... but, then again, a "public" club has an inherit risk of not getting enough people through the front door to make it a viable business either.
If I were to do this, I'd have to network within The Galena Territory community to sign up enough of a "critical mass" to launch the club. Not an impossible feat. Hard, but not impossible. On the positive side, it would then guarantee success. I would be essentially pre-selling the entire club. I'd be in the black from Day One.
I have only seen this business model implemented a handful of times, and only once in the USA.
What was their annual membership fee structure? How did they handle drinks and VIP room fees? Annual membership fee viewed as a retainer or an upfront fee?
However, this business model would ...
A. absolutely eliminate the 'riff-raff' concerns of your high roller customers
Yup, it would be a "friend of a friend" sort of membership recruitment and a "vouching for" situation as for guests.
B. reduce the 'critical mass' factor in regard to physical club size and number of dancers required
How small could you launch with?
Would it still have a main floor and performance stage? Or just all VIP rooms?
C. almost totally avoid any potential 'bible-thumper' induced zoning problems
I don't see how this would not still happen. It would still be classified as "adult entertainment" by the county board. I checked their zoning ordinance and I didn't see any exceptions for truly private clubs.
D. minimize potential negative reaction by the major competitors in the super-upscale niche ... since you won't be directly competing for 'walk-in' customers.
I'll have to take your word for that for now.
E. almost totally eliminate any potential LE problems regardless of actual club activities
I don't know about this. If they think it is a brothel, they'll raid it. Whether or not it is actually a brothel is another issue.
As to your proposed 'dancer university' that's a fantastic idea.
I think Charlotte and likely Areilbriel would disagree with you on this point.
Doing this would also allow you to 'lock in' both the top shelf dancers you require, and their status as 10's, PRIOR to the club actually opening.
Wouldn't it also shift the club from traveling-dancers-only to more of a longer stay commitment? From independent contractors to more like employees?
As I see them, the clientele of the proposed location are visitors and not looking to form any long term "relationship" with any dancer as a regular local patron might try. And when the clientele come again, they'll very likely want to see new faces more than old. That and to not be remembered. That's why I was keeping the traveling-dancers-only business model.
Keep in mind that a significant percentage of dancers would love to have various cosmetic procedures done ... BUT ... putting up the up-front cost for said procedures, on top of being 'laid up' for a month of recuperation thus sacrificing their income for that month, serves as an obstacle. If you were to offer dancers 'free' cosmetic procedures, PLUS 4 weeks worth of paid recuperation in your dancer residence ( and being educated by your 'dancer university' instructers during that time), in exchange for some time period's worth of work at your new club, I bet that you wouldn't have ANY problems with initial club staffing !!!
Not sure how this would work with a traveling-dancers-only business model, but I could see doing this at least before the opening of the club. Getting forty 9s (and 8s if they can be upgraded to 10s ... Hell, 7s and 6s if miracles can be so worked) and having all this work done on them before the club opens. Could this be my little contribution to the super high-end stripclub circuit that might get me thanks from super high-end club owners instead of black balls?
And once the word gets out from your initial group of 'recruits' that working at your club is a proverbial 'gold mine', you should have created a situation where other dancers will be approaching YOU to join the next 'class' !!!
If I were to do a shift from traveling-dancers-only to, say, year contracts for body upgrades, I could possibly see doing this. Then a month out from when the last group of upgraded dancers finish out their contracts, I take in another group of forty 9s to transform them into 10s for the next year. Golfers then sold on there being new dancers every year. The super high-end stripclubs getting a fresh injection of 40 top-tier dancers each year. What do you think of this kind of a shift?
Then again, how quick do you think the turn-over could be done profitably? In other words, for all the body and mind work done on the dancers, how long do you think they'd need to work for my club for the club to see a worthwhile profit out of doing this?
Also, this might very well lead to a couple of local plastic surgeons joining your new club's investor list !!!
Possibly. They then profiting from the labor of their work by the dancers generating profits for the club and thus their cut of those profits. That and getting the "upgrade" business for their practices. After I am able to get my mind firmly around this concept and (saying I agree with it) incorporating it into the business model, it is definitely worth exploring with a few plastic surgeons to see what they think of such a deal. But I'm not totally sold on this new business model yet. :-\
shanna dior
02-18-2013, 08:56 AM
I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself with (a) promising free cosmetic procedures and high guaranteed weekly income and (b) expecting at LEAST 12 sets of 20-40 10s in all sorts of "fetish" categories (assuming you're still going with your one-week contract every 3 months and that the dancers just cycle throughout the year).
Melonie
02-18-2013, 11:51 AM
What was their annual membership fee structure? How did they handle drinks and VIP room fees? Annual membership fee viewed as a retainer or an upfront fee?
Well the offshore clubs using this business structure have an annual membership fee that is commeasurate with similar annual membership fees for non-adult entertainment oriented private clubs, with golf courses / country clubs etc. Not sure of the 'going rate' for such memberships in Galena, but I'm thinking of something on the order of 5-10 grand. The membership then allows forbearance of cover charges when the member visits the club. The membership also allows the member to bring 'guests' with them when visiting the club ... but does not forego the $100 or whatever per-capita cover charge for his guests. Non-member 'guests' can be allowed to enter the club without being physically accompanied by the member, but the member must call ahead and 'vouch' for them. Supposed 'guests' attempting to enter the club without a member 'vouching' for them get turned away, period. Costs of lap dances, VIP rental, drinks / cigars etc. are NOT covered by the membership. I would also point out that this membership only no walk-in customers structure would place your club in a legal position of stopping LE at the door unless they brought a search warrant !!! And that will never happen given the 'blowback' against a club bust that could be potentially generated by your well connected well funded local club member base !
As to catering to 'fetish' tastes of your super-upscale customers, the best way to handle this is via booking 'feature entertainers' via their agents. From huge tits girls to boxcover porn stars to 6'3" showgirls to 'whatever', all are available for a phone call and the right price.
With the 'free' plastic surgery offering, I can definitely envision the possibility of 'upgrading' some number of locally based dancers ... thus making club staffing less vulnerable to the whims of the very limited number of already 'qualified' travelling dancers currently working the upscale club circuit. Those 'upgraded' locally based dancers would then form a core of 'continuity' for club operation, customer interaction, and guidance for the constantly rotating remainder of travelling dancers. Agreed that 'free' plastic surgery must involve a contract resulting in say 50 weeks worth of future commitment to your club. Whether fulfilling the 50 work week commitment were to occur over the course of the next year for a locally based dancer, or over the course of the next four years for a travelling dancer returning for one week every month, really won't matter. In both cases, it's pretty easy to 'guarantee' this performance by structuring the plastic surgery offering as a debt owed by the dancer, but a debt which will be 'forgiven' when their 50 work week commitment is fulfilled. In that way, if some dancers agree to the 'free' plastic surgery but then attempt to 'disappear' without fulfilling their commitment, a collection agency will have every right to track them down ... resulting in either repayment of the plastic surgery costs or a ruined credit rating.
As you can probably already glean from some of the posted responses to this thread, top shelf travelling dancers are a very high value, very limited supply commodity. Also, top shelf travelling dancers are often already at a level of financial security in their lives where avoiding the costs of a plastic surgery, or a guaranteed minimum earnings level, or an extra $1000 a week in earnings potential, are no longer 'primary' motivations. If such a top shelf travelling dancer decides that it will be more 'fun' to work in Manhattan or Vegas, even though doing so might 'cost' her some potential net earnings versus working at your club, then that's what she's likely to do !!! That is her 'right' ... but it is also your club's potential 'Achilles Heel'. 'Upgrading' some number of locally based dancers would mitigate this risk.
As to future 'classes' of additional 'upgraded' dancers, I would suggest that you consider offering this every three months to a small group of girls ( like maybe 5 ) instead of an annual event involving 20 girls. This would allow you to add 'new girls' to the club roster more often ... thus keeping your upscale clientele satisfied. And in the long term, this will probably just about balance against the normal dancer 'attrition' rate.
Twin Tattoo
02-18-2013, 01:24 PM
expecting at LEAST 12 sets of 20-40 10s in all sorts of "fetish" categories (assuming you're still going with your one-week contract every 3 months and that the dancers just cycle throughout the year).
I viewed my questions about fetish categories as somewhat separate. More about the current state of high-end and super high-end stripclubs. For many of those fetishes (especially BBWs), I doubt many men would ever call them a "10". What I'm wondering is if it is worth trying to service off-the-main-menu fetishes in a (super) high-end stripclub. If patrons don't consistently take them back into the VIP room, it doesn't do either of us any good of having them there. So for those of you who are currently working high-end and super high-end clubs, what's the present lay of the land where you work? Does your club offer such dancers? Do they bank?
Melonie
02-18-2013, 01:36 PM
^^^ I'd address the 'fetish' aspect via one shot one week 'feature entertainer' bookings. That way you can find out what your area's customers are actually willing to 'pay for', without the club having to 'invest' anything beyond the one shot feature fee.
Having 'fetish' oriented dancers on the regular roster may also wind up 'offending' 95% of your upscale customers who don't indulge that particular 'fetish'. In contrast, bringing in a 'fetish' oriented feature for a single week never needs to be repeated if she doesn't 'sell' well to your club customer base. You could even offer the selection of future feature bookings based on a 'vote' by your club members ( or a financial contribution by particular club members interested in particular fetishes ! ).
How small could you launch with?
That would depend on your membership base. Perhaps 10 'upgraded' locally based dancers plus 10 (rotating) travelling dancers on a one week per month schedule ... totalling 50 different girls over the course of the month. You're right in mentioning a potential vulnerability to 'employee' lawsuits as well as potential ObamaCare related costs if you allow any particular dancer to work more than 28 hours per week. Thus the 10 'upgraded' locally based dancers might actually work out better to be a total of 20 locally based girls, who alternate working different days of the week ... which in turn increases your total diversity to 60 different girls per month but 20 girls working on any given night. This arrangement also would provide for six nights per week of club operation. Another option would be to limit club operation to 4 nights per week = 28 hours ... which could be achieved with 10 locally based girls and might also appeal to the travelling dancers. Customer research required.
t still have a main floor and performance stage? Or just all VIP rooms?
The offshore clubs have a good sized bar and tables area to receive incoming members and their guests ... which usually also includes a relatively smallish stage. But unlike 'normal' US high end clubs that are 80% main room and stage plus 20% private dance / VIP rooms, the offshore clubs are more like 67/33 or 50 / 50. This encourages incoming members and their guests to 'migrate' to a VIP area fairly quickly.
how quick do you think the turn-over could be done profitably? In other words, for all the body and mind work done on the dancers, how long do you think they'd need to work for my club for the club to see a worthwhile profit out of doing this?
That depends entirely on your customer base. In really general terms, between the cost of the 'upgrades' and the 4 weeks worth of recovery / 'dancer university' pay, you're looking at a $10 grand investment per dancer. To break even on that with a 50% club / dancer split of private dance money, you're looking at each dancer selling 750 extra private dances over the course of 50 working weeks ... which translates into three additional private dance sales or one extra VIP per night more or less.
But the more roundabout answer is that this is the wrong question. What will it cost your club if top notch travelling dancers aren't willing to come to your club in sufficient numbers, forcing you to keep customers waiting, or to hire non-upgraded locally based dancers to cover the staffing shortfall ? Staffing is an inherent risk of any super-upscale club, and particularly so for upscale clubs outside of 'popular' large cities. If you're not willing to mitigate that risk via the franchise route, it has to be mitigated by other means. One way is to attempt to create your own top shelf dancers to augment the small number of top shelf travelling dancers that are actually likely to take a chance by working at your club. Another way is to abandon the super-upscale business model in favor of something that is merely upscale ... which then makes available a much larger 'talent pool' of less perfectly 'qualified' dancers, both travelling dancers and locally based.
Twin Tattoo
02-18-2013, 03:19 PM
I am replying to Melonie's two most recent posts in this one post.
The membership then allows forbearance of cover charges when the member visits the club. The membership also allows the member to bring 'guests' with them when visiting the club ... but does not forego the $100 or whatever per-capita cover charge for his guests. Non-member 'guests' can be allowed to enter the club without being physically accompanied by the member, but the member must call ahead and 'vouch' for them. Supposed 'guests' attempting to enter the club without a member 'vouching' for them get turned away, period. Costs of lap dances, VIP rental, drinks / cigars etc. are NOT covered by the membership.
Thanks for this clarification.
I would also point out that this membership only no walk-in customers structure would place your club in a legal position of stopping LE at the door unless they brought a search warrant !!! And that will never happen given the 'blowback' against a club bust that could be potentially generated by your well connected well funded local club member base !
Just what are you expecting to be going on in such a club? Or are police raids just a normal occurrence for stripclubs? In all the countless times I've been to stripclubs of all types over these last few decades, I've never experienced a police raid.
As to catering to 'fetish' tastes of your super-upscale customers, the best way to handle this is via booking 'feature entertainers' via their agents. From huge tits girls to boxcover porn stars to 6'3" showgirls to 'whatever', all are available for a phone call and the right price.
But do the non-hotly-sought-after types bank at super high-end stripclubs? Sure huge tits and boxcover porn stars do, but do the more off-the-main-menu dancers (BBWs, heavily tattooed & pierced, etc.) do?
With the 'free' plastic surgery offering, I can definitely envision the possibility of 'upgrading' some number of locally based dancers ... thus making club staffing less vulnerable to the whims of the very limited number of already 'qualified' travelling dancers currently working the upscale club circuit.
I called a friendly acquaintance who is a plastic surgeon and he said he could line up as many women as I could "stuff into the building and then bury the building under even more" by offering free plastic surgery and he's make them all 10s. I thought he was joking and said so, but he said he was serious. He said he couldn't do anything about their brains, but as far as their bodies go, not a problem. He also said that when women get plastic surgery done (especially boob jobs), they want to show them off so getting them to become dancers, he thought, wouldn't be a problem. He laughed and said it was common for him to read in the newspaper "beat" police column about his most-recent "boob jobs" getting tickets for indecent exposure.
Those 'upgraded' locally based dancers would then form a core of 'continuity' for club operation, customer interaction, and guidance for the constantly rotating remainder of travelling dancers.
I'm not yet sold on this truly private club thing yet, but I see it operating differently by its Old Boys' Club set-up. New dancers every week was to not only help dampen down local opposition but was also meant to be a selling point for a "public" stripclub. But the public selling point wouldn't be part of the equation for a truly private club.
And after reading about recent lawsuits against stripclubs, I'd probably have to treat local dancers as employees (even less than 20 hours a week as part-time employees) and could only treat traveling dancers as independent contractors. Just means local dancers make less. After all, nothing's for free. Employee benefits don't magically appear out of thin air. They would still be classified as entertainment workers so firing them for letting their bodies go could still be done though ... yet, you know, they'll sue if they get pregnant and are laid off for that until they get their bodies back into shape. One of the attractions of only having traveling dancers is there is no question about their independent contractor status.
Agreed that 'free' plastic surgery must involve a contract resulting in say 50 weeks worth of future commitment to your club.
You think it would take 50 workweeks to make this profitable for the club to offer?
I suppose it also would have to do with how much work they'd want/need done on their bodies. Less work done, shorter contract to work it off. Any guess what kind of a formula this would likely entail? How many workweeks per $10,000 of work done PLUS $20,000 ($5,000 a week) to cover the month of recuperation with them at the residence hall?
As for working on their minds, I'm not sure much can be done on that front. I can see the logic of hiring a speech therapist to eliminate speech problems (lisps, dangling s's, etc.), work on their clarity and projection, and reprogram and upgrade their vocabulary. But as a long-time marketer, I have LONG learned that either you're a natural-born salesperson or you're not. You can hone an already gifted salesperson by sending them to a workshop but such a workshop is wasted on the socially-inept. So unless you think otherwise, who gets the body overhauls will likely essentially be down to who can sell themselves as a great salesperson in the interview for those spots. Would you not agree?
Whether fulfilling the 50 work week commitment were to occur over the course of the next year for a locally based dancer, or over the course of the next four years for a travelling dancer returning for one week every month, really won't matter. In both cases, it's pretty easy to 'guarantee' this performance by structuring the plastic surgery offering as a debt owed by the dancer, but a debt which will be 'forgiven' when their 50 work week commitment is fulfilled.
Good point. Any good hustler would have the brains to understand that. Anyone without such brains wouldn't get pass the salesperson interview stage.
In that way, if some dancers agree to the 'free' plastic surgery but then attempt to 'disappear' without fulfilling their commitment, a collection agency will have every right to track them down ... resulting in either repayment of the plastic surgery costs or a ruined credit rating.
And how many would say, "Fuck it! I don't care about my credit rating. So long, sucker!"
As you can probably already glean from some of the posted responses to this thread, top shelf travelling dancers are a very high value, very limited supply commodity. Also, top shelf travelling dancers are often already at a level of financial security in their lives where avoiding the costs of a plastic surgery, or a guaranteed minimum earnings level, or an extra $1000 a week in earnings potential, are no longer 'primary' motivations. If such a top shelf travelling dancer decides that it will be more 'fun' to work in Manhattan or Vegas, even though doing so might 'cost' her some potential net earnings versus working at your club, then that's what she's likely to do !!! That is her 'right' ... but it is also your club's potential 'Achilles Heel'.
Just like in the rest of the business world. You can offer all you want, but if the job is in the boondocks of North Dakota, it will be a VERY hard sell to get top talent to come work there. And some still won't regardless what you monetarily offer. This is why such less-than-ideal-location employers fly out not just the guy but his wife and even kids and then do a hard sell on why the community is a great place to raise a family.
Given this reality, I guess I would need to do some promotion work for Galena. Show all of the fun that is here to be had. How it might be a great place to "recharge batteries" ... appeal to those who love collecting antiques ... be beloved by those who love cozy historical settings.
What about offering free first-class airline tickets for two, rental car, and free weekend stay at a hotel to select top-tier dancers to come and check out Galena? No obligations. Just a "come and see" offer. I think they'll like what they find and think doing a week every three months (or six month or year) would be a fun thing to do. Those addicted to "big city lights" will pass but those who seek a bit of variety in their lives might really like this set-up. What do you think?
As to future 'classes' of additional 'upgraded' dancers, I would suggest that you consider offering this every three months to a small group of girls ( like maybe 5 ) instead of an annual event involving 20 girls. This would allow you to add 'new girls' to the club roster more often ... thus keeping your upscale clientele satisfied. And in the long term, this will probably just about balance against the normal dancer 'attrition' rate.
Great suggestion. How do you think the "major players" at the super high-end stripclubs would then receive my club joining their ranks if I were to go the "public" super high-end route? If I go the truly private club route, I assume you would continue say they would not really view me as a competitor for top-tier dancers, right?
---
I'd address the 'fetish' aspect via one shot one week 'feature entertainer' bookings. That way you can find out what your area's customers are actually willing to 'pay for', without the club having to 'invest' anything beyond the one shot feature fee.
In other words, do them as trial balloons. Not all at one time. Release a balloon every week or month or so.
Having 'fetish' oriented dancers on the regular roster may also wind up 'offending' 95% of your upscale customers who don't indulge that particular 'fetish'.
Yeah, that's the problem with this. Satisfying fetishes while not turning off the majority. I'm just wondering if it is even worth doing as trial balloons.
In contrast, bringing in a 'fetish' oriented feature for a single week never needs to be repeated if she doesn't 'sell' well to your club customer base. You could even offer the selection of future feature bookings based on a 'vote' by your club members ( or a financial contribution by particular club members interested in particular fetishes ! ).
*LAUGH* :D "They're here because at least one of your fellow club members has PAID for them to be here. Is that a problem?" No one would say it is. Most would then react, "No shit? Who paid for them?" No disclosure. Just commenting that while she's here "if you want to walk on the wild side, here's your chance." Great suggestion, Melonie. Turning a possible turn-off into exotic fruit. Yeah, I think I could sell them that way to club members if this is done as a truly private club ... which I'm liking the concept more and more as we discuss it. If club members have got a fetish, I could make it come true. }:D You are revealing new untold worlds to me, Melonie. :O Thanks!
That [how small could a club go] would depend on your membership base. Perhaps 10 'upgraded' locally based dancers plus 10 (rotating) travelling dancers on a one week per month schedule ... totalling 50 different girls over the course of the month. You're right in mentioning a potential vulnerability to 'employee' lawsuits as well as potential ObamaCare related costs if you allow any particular dancer to work more than 28 hours per week. Thus the 10 'upgraded' locally based dancers might actually work out better to be a total of 20 locally based girls, who alternate working different days of the week ... which in turn increases your total diversity to 60 different girls per month but 20 girls working on any given night. This arrangement also would provide for six nights per week of club operation.
How much of a pain-in-the-ass is it switching from treating dancers as independent contractors to employees? I know, Melonie, that YOU know that answer. :)
The offshore clubs have a good sized bar and tables area to receive incoming members and their guests ... which usually also includes a relatively smallish stage. But unlike 'normal' US high end clubs that are 80% main room and stage plus 20% private dance / VIP rooms, the offshore clubs are more like 67/33 or 50 / 50. This encourages incoming members and their guests to 'migrate' to a VIP area fairly quickly.
What about a luxury hotel lobby set-up for reception? The "club" located further in and behind sound-proof doors ... if not a sound-proof airlock so no music flood the reception area. A bar instead of a hotel front desk. If they want to go directly to the VIP rooms, a side door could take them there without ever needing to enter the main floor and stage area. Each VIP room having a profile book of the currently in-the-house dancers (just their stage name and a couple photographs of them [face and full body] ... and maybe any languages they know so if a member has a foreign guest, he might be able to get a dancer for the guy that speaks his language ... maybe also topics of interest that the dancer has in case the member wants someone to talk to and not body-iron his pants) which members can pick from. Another profile book for those not presently in the club but either are traveling dancers at the residence hall or local gals that can be possibly called in. Sound good?
Melonie
02-18-2013, 04:51 PM
Just what are you expecting to be going on in such a club? Or are police raids just a normal occurrence for stripclubs? In all the countless times I've been to stripclubs of all types over these last few decades, I've never experienced a police raid.
In terms of technical violation of some law or another, something 'illegal' happens in every strip club in the USA every single night. Police raids ... with the exception of 'stupid-ass' things like regular customers dealing drugs from within the club, or desparate dancers non-discretely offering 'extras' both inside and outside the club ... are usually politically motivated. In the case of your proposed super-upscale club, any sort of LE appearance is going to go over like a proverbial 'lead balloon' with the fine upstanding citizen members / customers !!!
I called a friendly acquaintance who is a plastic surgeon and he said he could line up as many women as I could "stuff into the building and then bury the building under even more" by offering free plastic surgery and he's make them all 10s. I thought he was joking and said so, but he said he was serious. He said he couldn't do anything about their brains, but as far as their bodies go, not a problem. He also said that when women get plastic surgery done (especially boob jobs), they want to show them off so getting them to become dancers, he thought, wouldn't be a problem.
and you were expecting to hear a different answer ???
One of the attractions of only having traveling dancers is there is no question about their independent contractor status.
This is absolutely the case ... and getting worse every year.
How much of a pain-in-the-ass is it switching from treating dancers as independent contractors to employees? I know, Melonie, that YOU know that answer.
The 'employee' status is a huge pain-in-the-ass for both the clubowners and the dancers. Illinois has already had a couple of club-specific court cases which deemed dancers to be 'employees'. The only financial winners are the state unemployment fund and disability fund. And indeed you will face this problem if you hire any locally based girls 'off the street' ( no pun intended ). However, if ALL locally based girls are provided with cosmetic surgery in exchange for future work commitments, this reinforces an independent contractor business to business contractual arrangement not an employer / employee situation. Also, if forced into an 'employer/employee' situation, all of a sudden allowing dancers to work more than 28 hours per week makes the 'employer' club liable for paying health insurance premiums or IRS ObamaCare penalties. Plus additional 'employee rights' legal compliance that could affect your ability to freely book travelling dancers.
I suppose it also would have to do with how much work they'd want/need done on their bodies. Less work done, shorter contract to work it off. Any guess what kind of a formula this would likely entail? How many workweeks per $10,000 of work done PLUS $20,000 ($5,000 a week) to cover the month of recuperation with them at the residence hall?
I was thinking more like $1,000 per week during the recuperation period. It beats earning zero while recuperating from a plastic surgery anywhere else ! Agreed that the length of the contract could be scaled based on the actual costs of individual cosmetic procedures. My estimate was based on $6k worth of cosmetic procedures plus 4 * $1k worth of recuperation pay.
What about offering free first-class airline tickets for two, rental car, and free weekend stay at a hotel to select top-tier dancers to come and check out Galena? No obligations. Just a "come and see" offer.
Good in theory impossible in practice, because no travelling dancer is likely to sacrifice her limited 'days off' to TRAVEL yet again to somewhere she doesn't really want to go without getting paid for it !
How do you think the "major players" at the super high-end stripclubs would then receive my club joining their ranks if I were to go the "public" super high-end route? If I go the truly private club route, I assume you would continue say they would not really view me as a competitor for top-tier
It's not HOW they would view you, but whether they would be able to see you at all. Guaranteed that a public club will quickly appear on the club review websites, making you immediately visible to the upscale club chains. You won't need to wait for a top shelf travellling dancer 'shortage' to be recognized.
Yeah, I think I could sell them that way to club members if this is done as a truly private club ... which I'm liking the concept more and more as we discuss it. If club members have got a fetish, I could make it come true. You are revealing new untold worlds to me, Melonie. Thanks!
Don't thank me yet ... I may just be showing you a faster way to lose a ton of money !!!
What about a luxury hotel lobby set-up for reception? The "club" located further in and behind sound-proof doors ... if not a sound-proof airlock so no music flood the reception area. A bar instead of a hotel front desk. If they want to go directly to the VIP rooms, a side door could take them there without ever needing to enter the main floor and stage area. Each VIP room having a profile book of the currently in-the-house dancers (just their stage name and a couple photographs of them [face and full body] ... and maybe any languages they know so if a member has a foreign guest, he might be able to get a dancer for the guy that speaks his language ... maybe also topics of interest that the dancer has in case the member wants someone to talk to and not body-iron his pants) which members can pick from. Another profile book for those not presently in the club but either are traveling dancers at the residence hall or local gals that can be possibly called in. Sound good?
Let's split the difference. Entrance area with an extremely attractive 'hostess' / head waitress, who checks member status, verifies guest 'invitations', collects cover charges from guests, meets and greets. Video monitors showing short sequential video clips of dancers working that night ... with additional capability of bringing up info on next week's dancers, next month's feature performer etc. Bar beyond set of inner doors which not only lower sound level but also block direct view of the bar / stage from the entrance area ( think LE / 'probable cause' ).
Twin Tattoo
02-20-2013, 12:05 PM
In terms of technical violation of some law or another, something 'illegal' happens in every strip club in the USA every single night. Police raids ... with the exception of 'stupid-ass' things like regular customers dealing drugs from within the club, or desparate dancers non-discretely offering 'extras' both inside and outside the club ... are usually politically motivated. In the case of your proposed super-upscale club, any sort of LE appearance is going to go over like a proverbial 'lead balloon' with the fine upstanding citizen members / customers !!!
Possibly. There might be very few actual locals as members of such a club though. But, yes, I agree, that the members will very likely be well-connected and powerful to the point where LE might not want to open that can of worms.
But I would also like to know what I'm actually getting myself into. From your comments, Melonie, I getting the vibe that "extras" are far more prevalent in stripclubs that I have been aware of. Just how prevalent is it in high-end and super high-end stripclubs?
and you were expecting to hear a different answer ??? [The answer being that patients of plastic surgeons will be easy to recruit as dancers in exchange for "free" plastic surgery.]
Yeah, but I don't know if he was just being flippant (if not sort of boasting) or accurate. Again, this might be where myself being a guy is not enabling me to see this.
The 'employee' status is a huge pain-in-the-ass for both the clubowners and the dancers. Illinois has already had a couple of club-specific court cases which deemed dancers to be 'employees'. The only financial winners are the state unemployment fund and disability fund. And indeed you will face this problem if you hire any locally based girls 'off the street' ( no pun intended ). However, if ALL locally based girls are provided with cosmetic surgery in exchange for future work commitments, this reinforces an independent contractor business to business contractual arrangement not an employer / employee situation. Also, if forced into an 'employer/employee' situation, all of a sudden allowing dancers to work more than 28 hours per week makes the 'employer' club liable for paying health insurance premiums or IRS ObamaCare penalties. Plus additional 'employee rights' legal compliance that could affect your ability to freely book travelling dancers.
So, in reality, going traveling-dancers-only should be done if at all possible.
What about offering the "free" plastic surgery to dancers who work at relatively-but-not-too-close clubs as a way to fill in gaps that no-show traveling dancers cause? More of an insurance policy. They only coming in as needed. They working mainly for another club and only once in a while for mine. Wouldn't that reinforce their independent contractor status?
I was thinking more like $1,000 per week during the recuperation period. It beats earning zero while recuperating from a plastic surgery anywhere else !
Sounds reasonable.
Agreed that the length of the contract could be scaled based on the actual costs of individual cosmetic procedures. My estimate was based on $6k worth of cosmetic procedures plus 4 * $1k worth of recuperation pay.
So $6K would cover a boob and nose job? What other plastic surgery operations might dancers want? And what would they normally cost?
Good in theory impossible in practice, because no travelling dancer is likely to sacrifice her limited 'days off' to TRAVEL yet again to somewhere she doesn't really want to go without getting paid for it !
So what would be a good idea for getting them to consider working for such a club? Just word of mouth?
Don't thank me yet ... I may just be showing you a faster way to lose a ton of money !!!
It's not my money. ;) I'm only risking my time and energy. I won't put a single penny into this. That's what investors are for. I package the deal and essentially sell it to them. I take a big cut of the deal for my efforts.
Let's split the difference. Entrance area with an extremely attractive 'hostess' / head waitress, who checks member status, verifies guest 'invitations', collects cover charges from guests, meets and greets. Video monitors showing short sequential video clips of dancers working that night ... with additional capability of bringing up info on next week's dancers, next month's feature performer etc. Bar beyond set of inner doors which not only lower sound level but also block direct view of the bar / stage from the entrance area ( think LE / 'probable cause' ).
Sounds good. Though what are you imagining for the video clips? Merely stage performances? Any footage of them in a porn video? Or more like a dating service video? "Hi, I'm Cherry. I like puppies, butterflies, and lots and LOTS of money. Oh, how I love money!" :D
Melonie
02-20-2013, 04:24 PM
yes, I agree, that the members will very likely be well-connected and powerful to the point where LE might not want to open that can of worms.
But I would also like to know what I'm actually getting myself into. From your comments, Melonie, I getting the vibe that "extras" are far more prevalent in stripclubs that I have been aware of. Just how prevalent is it in high-end and super high-end stripclubs?
Every upscale clubowner and top shelf dancer will tell you that 'extras' aren't happening. But there is a reason that private dance rooms and VIP rooms need to be private
So, in reality, going traveling-dancers-only should be done if at all possible.
What about offering the "free" plastic surgery to dancers who work at relatively-but-not-too-close clubs as a way to fill in gaps that no-show traveling dancers cause? More of an insurance policy. They only coming in as needed. They working mainly for another club and only once in a while for mine. Wouldn't that reinforce their independent contractor status?
Actually, what I recomended that you only hire local dancers who have signed up for the 'free' plastic surgery program ... in order to reinforce the independent contractor relationship vs 'employer/ employee'. I doubt that you could achieve a payback on that investment unless those dancers are working for you steadily. And where other clubs anywhere near your location are concerned, there is a very real chance that dancers choosing to work for you will be 'blackballed' from also working / returning to the other area clubs.
So $6K would cover a boob and nose job? What other plastic surgery operations might dancers want? And what would they normally cost?
these costs are regionally specific ... and also subject to any 'quantity discount' you may be able to arrange with a local plastic surgeon as a result of steering him dozens of new patients per year. Under those terms, boob job might cost $4k, simultaneous nose job another $2-3k. Other procedures might be liposuction, butt implants, dental veneers etc.
So what would be a good idea for getting them to consider working for such a club? Just word of mouth?
ultimately this will boil down to word of mouth / internet postings by dancers who have already worked for you and customers who have already checked out your club.
Though what are you imagining for the video clips? Merely stage performances? Any footage of them in a porn video? Or more like a dating service video?
given the location right next to the front door, I'd vote for R rated. Some small amount of dating service like stuff ( on demand ) might be a nice addition to stage and 'glamour' video clips.
charlotte.
02-20-2013, 09:42 PM
oh my...one surgeon doing tons of free plastic surgery of all sorts to all the dancers...well lets just assume you wont have any perfect 10s working after that. this idea is extremely hilarious to me.
I dont know why im surprised to hear that you expect magical investors to show up and fund all of this. im not even sure why I still think youre being serious. but I am positively giddy over the idea that there is a person who thinks someone will swoop in and drop millions of dollars on exotic furs to line a building full of liquor and vaginas, who only views peta as a possible obstacle to this plan.
Twin Tattoo
02-20-2013, 09:50 PM
Thanks, Melonie. I appreciate the input.