View Full Version : Problem with sweat pants?
SweetJulia
06-20-2014, 08:58 AM
Framing what I'm talking about as sexual assault is ridiculous. It has roughly the same level of impact on the "victim" as masturbating while envisioning someone you know personally or from tv. Are we going to start coining that sexual assault?
While this site being a safe haven for dancers is good in a number of respects, it's also dangerous. A feedback loop of supporting opinions is never good for broadening viewpoints and promotes hostility; something adult entertainment is already rife with. I am NEVER for advocating against the comfort of a dancer. I try my best to never cross the line with dancers, and that has been rewarded. If you can't reconcile that with me asking the question of why such an act would be against their wishes, nothing I say will change that. Because several posters here already have it in their heads now that I'm misogynistic, perverted loser only interested in my own well-being.
I guess I can only hope some read my posts and take a different viewpoint.
Using someone's body without their consent to masturbate yourself to completion is ridiculous. It's none of my business what you do for work, but how would you feel if a guy came in his pants, with a condom on, while you didn't know, while you were somehow touching him? It makes me so sad that people try to get the most they can without another human beings consent.
ushar
06-20-2014, 11:27 AM
Using someone's body without their consent to masturbate yourself to completion is ridiculous. It's none of my business what you do for work, but how would you feel if a guy came in his pants, with a condom on, while you didn't know, while you were somehow touching him?
I wouldn't feel sexually assaulted. Heck, I've had an overly drunk female colleague grab my junk and make unwanted advances, and even then I shrugged it off as mildly embarrassing.
If I was bisexual, I don't think what you're suggesting would bother me at all. Seeing as I'm not though, that remains an "if". Another "if": if I was a male stripper and a female customer got off while enjoying a dance from me, I don't see how that would bother me either, because it doesn't impact me in any way. Certainly, anyone I'm willing to give a lap dance to has my permission to enjoy it to its full extent!
Clearly my opinion is in the minority here though, as I understand it. Obviously such a situation isn't fully relatable for me as I'm neither a woman, nor a stripper. I just wanted to know why an act I don't see as impacting the dancer at all bothers so many people. I've got my answer.
audrey_k
06-20-2014, 04:01 PM
Advocating that it's OK to do something of a sexual nature to a woman simply because she won't know it happened is ridiculous. Trying to promote it on a dancer support site is just asking for trouble.
Kind of reminds me of those guys who drug women and rationalize their actions by saying "well she was passed out she doesn't remember..."
SweetJulia
06-20-2014, 04:05 PM
Kind of reminds me of those guys who drug women and rationalize their actions by saying "well she was passed out she doesn't remember..."
Very well put :)
kirakonstantin
06-20-2014, 05:48 PM
I wouldn't feel sexually assaulted. Heck, I've had an overly drunk female colleague grab my junk and make unwanted advances, and even then I shrugged it off as mildly embarrassing.
That is sexual assault. And something that dancers deal with every shift.
SweetJulia
06-20-2014, 06:22 PM
I wouldn't feel sexually assaulted. Heck, I've had an overly drunk female colleague grab my junk and make unwanted advances, and even then I shrugged it off as mildly embarrassing.
If I was bisexual, I don't think what you're suggesting would bother me at all. Seeing as I'm not though, that remains an "if". Another "if": if I was a male stripper and a female customer got off while enjoying a dance from me, I don't see how that would bother me either, because it doesn't impact me in any way. Certainly, anyone I'm willing to give a lap dance to has my permission to enjoy it to its full extent!
Clearly my opinion is in the minority here though, as I understand it. Obviously such a situation isn't fully relatable for me as I'm neither a woman, nor a stripper. I just wanted to know why an act I don't see as impacting the dancer at all bothers so many people. I've got my answer.
It's funny you wrote that, earlier this morning, I posted a rant in another thread about how much I abhor people using the word heck. Anyways, since you said *IF* you were bi, does that mean you feel being attracted to the assailant would make the sexual assault less traumatizing. Because dancers are straight, bi, gay and everything in between. I have yet to meet one attracted to Mr. Sweatpants. Also, what if the condom slips off? What if that happens and the guy has something? Should it just be considered an occupational hazard?
FasaCorp
06-21-2014, 04:59 AM
Unexpectedly? You don't know when you are about to blow your load? There is no such thing as "unexpectedly" because you always have it within your control to stop the dance. Now, I'm not stupid, I know that most guys will just go ahead and let it fly but PULEEEZZZEEEE don't try to say it was an accident....
Ok, fine, take out "unexpectedly". My point still stands that customer ejacs are not going to simply "go away" if you ban sweatpants in clubs.
I agree with charlie61 regarding this thread.
yoda57us
06-21-2014, 05:30 AM
Ok, fine, take out "unexpectedly". My point still stands that customer ejacs are not going to simply "go away" if you ban sweatpants in clubs.
I agree with charlie61 regarding this thread.
Of course not and that's not really the point of the thread to begin with. ITC It's about respect and self control, not doing whatever you want because you paid for a dance. Trying to play the "we are men, we can't help it " card just doesn't fly.
SweetJulia
06-21-2014, 06:50 AM
Framing what I'm talking about as sexual assault is ridiculous. It has roughly the same level of impact on the "victim" as masturbating while envisioning someone you know personally or from tv. Are we going to start coining that sexual assault?
While this site being a safe haven for dancers is good in a number of respects, it's also dangerous. A feedback loop of supporting opinions is never good for broadening viewpoints and promotes hostility; something adult entertainment is already rife with. I am NEVER for advocating against the comfort of a dancer. I try my best to never cross the line with dancers, and that has been rewarded. If you can't reconcile that with me asking the question of why such an act would be against their wishes, nothing I say will change that. Because several posters here already have it in their heads now that I'm misogynistic, perverted loser only interested in my own well-being.
I guess I can only hope some read my posts and take a different viewpoint.
Dangerous? Are you kidding? Working in the sex industry is hard. THAT'S dangerous. It's physically and mentally draining. Dancers, camgirls, escorts, PSOs, etc. need an outlet to vent and get opinions. Do you only find websites where most don't share your views dangerous?
Oh, and to stay on topic, I hate sweatpants. In Ohio, most clubs are so desperate for business that they could care less what their customers wear. They're just happy they're wearing something lol. I was younger when I danced and got stuck with the resident Mr. Sweatpants on more than one occasion. Ended up slipping and sliding all over his boner, counting down the seconds until I could flee. I made money, but it so wasn't worth it. I mean, everyone knows what the guy's up to, even the other customers. I've had sympathetic ones tip me after they saw me dance for Mr. Sweatpants. Dude, they don't even look good, why would you wear sweatpants anywhere?
FasaCorp
06-21-2014, 07:14 AM
Of course not and that's not really the point of the thread to begin with. ITC It's about respect and self control, not doing whatever you want because you paid for a dance. Trying to play the "we are men, we can't help it " card just doesn't fly.
That was not my intention. My point got missed spectacularly because of a single word. Then the tirade followed. Apologies all around.
ushar
06-22-2014, 07:08 PM
Dangerous? Are you kidding? Working in the sex industry is hard. THAT'S dangerous. It's physically and mentally draining. Dancers, camgirls, escorts, PSOs, etc. need an outlet to vent and get opinions. Do you only find websites where most don't share your views dangerous?
Hardly. I'd say the same thing about several other websites, where the dominant opinion more closely aligns with mine. As long as you (not you specifically, I mean everyone, including me) accept that what you're reading may represent the narrow viewpoint of a certain demographic, it's not so dangerous.
That is sexual assault. And something that dancers deal with every shift.
I hear you on that one, because it's far more alarming to me than someone cumming in a condom in their pants. I'm not sure what it's like where the majority of this board lives and works, but where I do it's pretty much accepted that dances are hands-on, meaning the customer can pretty much touch everywhere he wants (except between the legs). Even kisses, licks and sucking is becoming accepted, which freaks the hell out of me! The only thing not expected anymore is finger penetration, and apparently it's not that people don't try. >:(
These acts I do view as sexual assault, which is why I was incredulous at cumming in a condom in your pants being likened to the same. Frankly, I view the far more prevalent act of being handsy much more troublesome.
audrey_k
06-23-2014, 04:00 AM
Hardly. I'd say the same thing about several other websites, where the dominant opinion more closely aligns with mine. As long as you (not you specifically, I mean everyone, including me) accept that what you're reading may represent the narrow viewpoint of a certain demographic, it's not so dangerous.
I hear you on that one, because it's far more alarming to me than someone cumming in a condom in their pants. I'm not sure what it's like where the majority of this board lives and works, but where I do it's pretty much accepted that dances are hands-on, meaning the customer can pretty much touch everywhere he wants (except between the legs). Even kisses, licks and sucking is becoming accepted, which freaks the hell out of me! The only thing not expected anymore is finger penetration, and apparently it's not that people don't try. >:(
These acts I do view as sexual assault, which is why I was incredulous at cumming in a condom in your pants being likened to the same. Frankly, I view the far more prevalent act of being handsy much more troublesome.
I have known several girls who had customers cum in their pants and felt extremely violated. They thought they were giving a 'strip tease' not being used as a blow up doll and they felt degraded. They were disgusted that the customer got semen on their butt/leg/boob/whatever and worried about disease, I'm sorry but most guys don't put a condom on beforehand. I have had an insane number of customers cum in their pants when I dance, in the UK they're a bit better about it and usually end the dance and run to the bathroom, but in America I've clearly been able to tell that someone was about to have an orgasm and ended the dance and usually gotten a tirade of shit for doing so. When I am working in a strip club it is not my job nor is it within my comfort level to give you an orgasm.
It is not for you to define what is OK as far as boundaries being crossed in the club. Fingering not OK but cuming in your pants is? You are the customer, not the dancer, you are not the one who needs to consent to your boundaries being pushed in this case (were we talking about her grabbing your dick the conversation would be different). Maybe a female friend grabbing your junk doesn't bother you, but it would certainly bother me if a male friend groped my boobs or my ass, and in that case it doesn't matter if it bothers you, it matters if it bothers ME because I am the one being touched.
The universal definition of a lap dance is a dancer getting naked, shaking her butt, her boobs, etc-- it is not "grind as hard as you can until I cum." There are some dancers out there who are OK with that but unless it has been specifically discussed beforehand you are making assumptions and possibly crossing someone's boundaries. If getting that orgasm is more important to you than not making some poor dancer feel degraded, disgusted, and humiliated, well I hope we never come across each other in as strip club.
lemiwinks31
06-23-2014, 09:44 AM
Hardly. I'd say the same thing about several other websites, where the dominant opinion more closely aligns with mine.
Guysthatcumintheirpants.com?
lemiwinks31
06-23-2014, 09:50 AM
Ok, fine, take out "unexpectedly". My point still stands that customer ejacs are not going to simply "go away" if you ban sweatpants in clubs.
And some guys will continue to sneak onto farms and make sweet love to sheep....It doesnt mean that people shouldnt try to curtail pathetic behaviors.
ushar
06-23-2014, 10:08 AM
They thought they were giving a 'strip tease' not being used as a blow up doll and they felt degraded.
That's an interesting viewpoint. While I wouldn't coin it being used as a blowup doll, how fine and blurred is the line between those two? There seems to be this overarching need to set somewhat volatile boundaries, which I suppose stems from the need to maintain some control. "I'm not selling sex if I don't touch him." "I'm not selling sex if I don't make him cum." "I'm not selling sex if he doesn't touch me." "I'm not selling sex if he keeps it in his pants." "I'm not selling sex if I don't fuck him." "I'm not selling sex if it's in the club." The rationalizations to not feel degraded. I don't think any of that is cause for feeling degradation, but certainly some of it isn't appropriate in a strip club.
ushar
06-23-2014, 10:11 AM
Guysthatcumintheirpants.com?
:rotfl:
I wasn't talking about this opinion in particular!
Aniela
06-23-2014, 12:36 PM
That's an interesting viewpoint. While I wouldn't coin it being used as a blowup doll, how fine and blurred is the line between those two? There seems to be this overarching need to set somewhat volatile boundaries, which I suppose stems from the need to maintain some control. "I'm not selling sex if I don't touch him." "I'm not selling sex if I don't make him cum." "I'm not selling sex if he doesn't touch me." "I'm not selling sex if he keeps it in his pants." "I'm not selling sex if I don't fuck him." "I'm not selling sex if it's in the club." The rationalizations to not feel degraded. I don't think any of that is cause for feeling degradation, but certainly some of it isn't appropriate in a strip club.
' volatile boundaries'??? Are you fking serious … only ppl I have ever heard use that expression are the wankers who don't like boundaries they didn't set i.e. Guys like you who could care less abt the consent of the dancer you are buying from.
There is no 'sneaky' way to go abt getting off during a dance, condom or no. It's not necessarily abt degradation, it is abt what's appropriate in the SC. Blowing your load is not appropriate in the SC -- do accidents happen, yes, but if that's a customer's express purpose in going to the SC, then for fucks sake(no pun intended) grow up, put on your big-boy boxers & go hire an escort, w/ whom blowing your load IS appropriate.
starlily
06-23-2014, 01:58 PM
Ushar. This is a dancer support site. Not a place for you to come and tell us everything you think is wrong with how we do our job. You have no idea what works for dancers, but I have a sad feeling we won't be able to convince you of that because you're so absurdly sure that you're a beacon of truth and reason among all these illogical, hysterical dancers who clearly don't know what's best for themselves.
Stop trying to tell us we'd all make more money if we offered free extras "because customer loyalty!", stop acting like we're lying when we say there's a polite and successful way to prompt customers to tip us, and for heaven's sake, PLEASE stop trying to set our sexual boundaries for us, unless you want everyone here to hate you. We know what we're doing, ok? The worst part of this entire thread is how you're trying to gaslight us all into thinking there's something wrong with our boundaries because you personally don't agree with them, and you implying that when dancers are ok with some sexual situations and not others we're being silly and wrong. As if you can reduce what's emotionally best for each individual to simple logic. Your tone when you tell us "You should feel this way because XYZ" smells like pick-up artistry and is condescending, not to mention just plain not true.
audrey_k
06-23-2014, 02:48 PM
That's an interesting viewpoint. While I wouldn't coin it being used as a blowup doll, how fine and blurred is the line between those two? There seems to be this overarching need to set somewhat volatile boundaries, which I suppose stems from the need to maintain some control. "I'm not selling sex if I don't touch him." "I'm not selling sex if I don't make him cum." "I'm not selling sex if he doesn't touch me." "I'm not selling sex if he keeps it in his pants." "I'm not selling sex if I don't fuck him." "I'm not selling sex if it's in the club." The rationalizations to not feel degraded. I don't think any of that is cause for feeling degradation, but certainly some of it isn't appropriate in a strip club.
What's the difference between me and a blow up doll?
Hmm, let me think.
Well, for one thing I have a brain. I have feelings. I have values. I have control over what happens to me. I'm a PERSON, NOT A DOLL.
I sincerely hope you understand how INCREDIBLY INSULTING that statement was, I seriously cannot believe you just compared strippers to blow up dolls?
And it has absolutely nothing to do with strippers hiding behind being 'dancers' to not have to deal with the psychological repercussions of selling sex. I'm an escort and a stripper and I can tell you that I have NEVER felt degraded from my escort clients in the way that I have felt degraded by strip club customers. It has do with someone pushing your boundaries and doing something without your consent. With an escort client we have already agreed upon what services I will be offering, so if he has an orgasm it doesn't bother me (obviously I'm hoping he does). But in a strip club I did not agree to offering that service. CONSENT, USHAR, CONSENT....
It's called.... sexual assault.... doing something sexually to another person without their consent....
Seriousy ushar, you need to go back to high school or college or whatever and sit through a sexual assault lecture, or pick up a copy of The Feminine Mystique cause you seem to have no respect or understanding of the female perspective, let alone the dancer perspective.
Oh, and I'm glad that you, a customer, have decided what is OK and what is not OK for us strippers to feel. The next time a girl is crying to me about being violated, I will tell her "don't worry, this man on SW says that there's no need to feel violated so you can stop crying now."
safado
06-23-2014, 03:30 PM
Hardly. I'd say the same thing about several other websites, where the dominant opinion more closely aligns with mine. As long as you (not you specifically, I mean everyone, including me) accept that what you're reading may represent the narrow viewpoint of a certain demographic, it's not so dangerous.
I hear you on that one, because it's far more alarming to me than someone cumming in a condom in their pants. I'm not sure what it's like where the majority of this board lives and works, but where I do it's pretty much accepted that dances are hands-on, meaning the customer can pretty much touch everywhere he wants (except between the legs). Even kisses, licks and sucking is becoming accepted, which freaks the hell out of me! The only thing not expected anymore is finger penetration, and apparently it's not that people don't try. >:(
These acts I do view as sexual assault, which is why I was incredulous at cumming in a condom in your pants being likened to the same. Frankly, I view the far more prevalent act of being handsy much more troublesome.
Only amateurs wear sweatpants to the strip club, I suggest you wear a silk kilt.
oldster
06-23-2014, 04:05 PM
Make it stop, make it stop, make it stoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jezus ushar enough already
yoda57us
06-23-2014, 04:29 PM
Make it stop, make it stop, make it stoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jezus ushar enough already
LMAO! What's fascinating here is the sense of entitlement being exhibited. Maybe it's because I've been a customer since before contact even existed...
SweetJulia
06-23-2014, 04:49 PM
There's barely a difference between strippers and blow up dolls? I can't even.........I'm done with this thread. PS-Yoda, I hope to God moderating pays well.
yoda57us
06-23-2014, 05:09 PM
PS-Yoda, I hope to God moderating pays well.
We moderators are volunteers. Our only compensation is the satisfaction that we are helping the site run smoothly.
Oh, and the Saturday night hot tub parties in the Moderator's Lounge are off the chain!! ;D
ushar
06-23-2014, 05:29 PM
There's barely a difference between strippers and blow up dolls?
Oh for fuck's sake...as if that's what I said!
I say cumming in a condom isn't as bad as physically cumming on a stripper. Someone makes a comment about how physically cumming on a stripper is nasty. Then someone else runs with that line of thinking rather than the original.
I say cumming in a condom without penetration or any actual direct contact is hardly like treating a stripper like a blowup doll. Someone makes a comment about how I just compared strippers to blowup dolls (notice, I was actually saying the opposite, though I can see how if you read that line without the context of the first half of the sentence and the subsequent sentences it sounds bad). Then someone else runs with that line of thinking rather than the original.
I'm obviously taking about a thousand steps back here for every half step forward. So wish granted, I won't comment in this specific thread again. I'm actually surprised the mods let us run this far off topic, so thanks for your patience mods! It was a real treat!
lokikola
06-23-2014, 06:17 PM
Why is this troll not banned yet? He really is getting his "treats" in.
yoda57us
06-23-2014, 06:36 PM
Why is this troll not banned yet? He really is getting his "treats" in.
Because he has not violated any of the site rules. The only thing he is guilty of is posting a contrary opinion.
SweetJulia
06-24-2014, 08:00 AM
We moderators are volunteers. Our only compensation is the satisfaction that we are helping the site run smoothly.
Oh, and the Saturday night hot tub parties in the Moderator's Lounge are off the chain!! ;D
Awwww, well at least you get something. *Does shot in Yodas' honor*
Anyway, first club I worked at had a less than private dance area. The guys who went in there LOVED their sweatpants, but would always complain that they had a harder time getting dances than the guys who came in dressed in pretty much anything else. Wonder why lmao....................
Hopper
06-24-2014, 08:12 AM
^^^ What if some girls are just skeeved out by the thought of having these guys cumming while they are against them, regardless of how "contained" it is? What if some dancers are just disgusted by the mere thought of a random stranger using her to blow his load? Why does it have to be more complicated than that?
Unthinkable.
The problem with both of your statements is that you are assuming that a customer can do whatever he wants as long as HIS idea of acceptable conditions are met. It doesn't work that way. If you don't have the balls to either see an escort or actually ask a dancer if it's OK then it is NOT OK even if you are wearing a fucking wet suit while getting your dances.
Sm of your posts give the impression that while you claim to not fancy escorts, for whatever reason, you have no problem treating dancers like escorts, except clearly w/ less respect. Getting jizzed on is not in our job description, in any way, shape or form. Your 'but she doesn't have to know abt it' bs holds no water bc 1) it's obvious by a guy's body language when he has blown a load, w/ or w/o a visible wet spot & 2) it's no different from sm POS quietly whacking off on a crowded train 'bumping' up against your sister right at the 'magic moment'.
That's different to his sister deliberately grinding naked on a man's erect penis on a crowded train.
A few years ago a dancer dropped by this section to market her new line of lubricated, latex pants for customers to ejaculate in during dances. Some dancers here wanted to buy some to sell to customers. To me, that's grosser than a condom, since the cum spills into the entire crotch area inside these things.
So we know how some dancers feel about ejaculation. I fully agree that ejaculating in one's pants is gross. I can't understand why any man would do that to himself in public, or even in private.
However, to me it's a mystery that a dancer can happily grind on a customer's boner, which is literally masturbation, and yet be disgusted and even feel violated when he reaches the natural conclusion of this activity, even though the result be discreetly, hygienically, fully contained inside a condom.
If it's an accident, it's okay - could happen to everyone - but if it was deliberate, it's assault? It's either assault or it's not. A man can accidentally touch a woman and not be guilty of assault, but can a man accidentally have a woman grind on his penis and ejaculate? Only if he is helplessly pinned down. Besides, you couldn't even know the customer's intentions. A customer might wear a condom in case he ejaculates, not because he intends to.
And note the strange implication that the difference between a stripper and a prostitute is whether or not the customer ejaculates when his penis is directly stimulated. That doesn't put them very far apart.
Omegaphallic
06-24-2014, 09:05 AM
If your being forced to grind on someone against your will, that is sexual assault, which is bad, if who consent to grinding you consented to a sex act and ejectulation is a possible by product of that, but you still consented to the act that caused therefor its not a sexual assualt, the orgasm is a byproduct, not some thing that has been done to you, just a reaction to a sex act the dancer is preforming.
And I say this as a disinterested third party because I've never been made to ejactulate from grinding.
And yes grinding aka dry humping is a type of sex, its not masterubation, you can't grind yourself, this isn't the white house, so yeah it sex, lets not kid ourself.
yoda57us
06-24-2014, 09:47 AM
A few years ago a dancer dropped by this section to market her new line of lubricated, latex pants for customers to ejaculate in during dances. Some dancers here wanted to buy some to sell to customers. To me, that's grosser than a condom, since the cum spills into the entire crotch area inside these things.
Um, no. A few years ago several members of this site posted a link to something called "liquid lapdance pants" in several sections of the site. It was a third party site and the links were all posted by members here, not by any sort of marketing affiliation. I don't reacll anyone here thinking that it was a very good idea but a simple search would dig up some old conversation on the topic.
However, to me it's a mystery that a dancer can happily grind on a customer's boner, which is literally masturbation, and yet be disgusted and even feel violated when he reaches the natural conclusion of this activity, even though the result be discreetly, hygienically, fully contained inside a condom.
Why are you assuming that the grinding is done happily? It's a job. it pays the bills. There are quite a few folks who do things that they would rather not do for a living. Without getting too far off track here it stands to reason that if they don't like grinding in the first place they are going to enjoy the prospect of ejaculation even less. And, one more time, for the record, there is no way that a dancer knows if the guy is wearing a condom (unless of course he talks about his intentions beforehand, thus eliminating most of what is being debated here) and no way to assure that it will not fall off or break. I've had this happen plenty of times in the relatively relaxed environment of a bedroom, the chances of a hastily applied condom being compromised between the men's room and the PD booth seem pretty good to me...
If it's an accident, it's okay - could happen to everyone - but if it was deliberate, it's assault? It's either assault or it's not. A man can accidentally touch a woman and not be guilty of assault, but can a man accidentally have a woman grind on his penis and ejaculate? Only if he is helplessly pinned down. Besides, you couldn't even know the customer's intentions. A customer might wear a condom in case he ejaculates, not because he intends to.
Well, in court it doesn't really matter if it was an accident or not but we are getting too hung up on definition while ignoring the larger point here. it's not about what the customer may or may not be doing or even what his intentions are. It IS about the fact that he is doing it without discussing it up front with the dancer. A dancer has the right to control what happens in the private dance area. The issue is really no more complicated than that.
And note the strange implication that the difference between a stripper and a prostitute is whether or not the customer ejaculates when his penis is directly stimulated. That doesn't put them very far apart.
No, the difference is that a prostitute expects a customer to ejaculate (note, she doesn't really care if you do or not, she gets paid either way). Assuming that a dancer does her job with the intention a causing a customer to ejaculate is a bit of a slippery slope...as evidenced by the responses in this and other threads
Part of the issue here is that most of the customers responding to these threads seem to forget that contact and grinding are not universal in strip clubs all over the country or all over the world. Within fifty miles of my home in the Boston area I can go to clubs where grinding and full-on extras are common and I can also go to clubs where dancers are routinely fired for putting their knee in a guys crotch for just a second or two. For just that reason it's a bit naive to expect the majority of ladies reading here to go along with the POV that is being espoused by some of the male participants in this and other threads. A lot of dancers who post here spend their shifts denying, arguing and fending-off advances that are not readily accepted in the clubs that they work in.
In all my years on Stripper web the one thing I've learned is that what flies in some strip clubs is never going to meet with much in the way of approval or even tolerance here on the site. I don't mean that in any sort of negative way at all by the way. I'm also a member of a site that deals primarily with escorts and escorting and, believe me when I tell you, there are things that I do with my ATF escort on a regular basis (time spent, financial arrangements etc) that no escort would ever admit to in an open forum. Business is business and that is the primary focus for the ladies who make up the majority participants on sites that are dedicated to providers of a service.
kirakonstantin
06-24-2014, 11:55 AM
I've gotten quite tired of this asshole entitlement and that, if someone doesn't like my rules about what happens to my body, I must be wrong, oversensitive or hysterical.
No. Just fucking no. You're violating another human being and rationalizing it, so that you don't feel like a shitbag rapist. That's what's going on here.
I will make my boundaries clear. There will be one verbal warning for a minor violation. The second offense, or the first major offense, will result in your shoulder being ripped out of it's socket. I'll probably break your fucking arm in the process. I've done it before, to a guy that was bigger and tougher than 99% of SC customers. I have no problem fucking you up, if you try to sexually assault me.
If you want to avoid a trip to the ER and many months of pain, you either respect my boundaries or you find an extras girl who will give you what you want. It's not that fucking hard.
audrey_k
06-24-2014, 02:41 PM
However, to me it's a mystery that a dancer can happily grind on a customer's boner, which is literally masturbation, and yet be disgusted and even feel violated when he reaches the natural conclusion of this activity, even though the result be discreetly, hygienically, fully contained inside a condom.
If it's an accident, it's okay - could happen to everyone - but if it was deliberate, it's assault? It's either assault or it's not. A man can accidentally touch a woman and not be guilty of assault, but can a man accidentally have a woman grind on his penis and ejaculate? Only if he is helplessly pinned down. Besides, you couldn't even know the customer's intentions. A customer might wear a condom in case he ejaculates, not because he intends to.
And note the strange implication that the difference between a stripper and a prostitute is whether or not the customer ejaculates when his penis is directly stimulated. That doesn't put them very far apart.
You would be surprised how little it takes for some men to ejaculate. The only man who has cum in his pants since I moved to the UK came while we were dancing and I had my fucking clothes on. We were both standing up and I was in front of him and he had his arm around my stomach and we were sort of swaying back and forth-- all of sudden he started humping me a little bit, not a lot, I moved away, then he grabbed me really tightly and I pushed him off (had to push pretty fucking hard). I was totally disgusted, I thought we were just cuddling and the whole time he was slowly rubbing his dick on my ass to get off. Disgusting.
Obviously if I'm grinding so hard I'm basically fucking the customer it would be unfair to expect him not to ejaculate, but I don't think any of the ladies posting here are doing that. I mean, the whole reason men go to the SC in sweatpants is to try and get off with a dancer who is NOT grinding away on them.
Also, I'm sorry, but this whole idea of customers wearing condoms is fucking ridiculous. How would they even get them on? You can't put a condom on a flaccid penis, so he couldn't have it on when he went in the booth. He would have to get up, go into the bathroom, put on a condom, and come back. What man is going to do that? Can we just drop this idea of customers wearing condoms because it doesn't even make basic sense.
And seriously, I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall. AS A WORKING ESCORT AND A WORKING STRIPPER, WHEN I AM WITH AN ESCORT CLIENT I HAVE GIVEN THEM MY CONSENT TO HAVE AN ORGASM. I AM PURPOSELY ENGAGING IN ACTIVITIES THAT WILL PRODUCE AN ORGASM. WHEN I AM WITH A STRIP CLUB CUSTOMER I HAVE NOT GIVEN THEM MY CONSENT TO HAVE AN ORGASM AS I AM GIVING A STRIP TEASE. I AM NOT TRYING TO ENGAGE IN ACTIVITIES THAT WILL PRODUCE AN ORGASM.
Honestly guys, just go on Backpage and hire an escort. It will be so much easier and you won't have to wear sweatpants, get gizz all over your legs, and guess what! You can fuck her.
These rationalizations and twisting of the facts with consent are very disturbing.
MarvelGirl
06-24-2014, 03:22 PM
If your being forced to grind on someone against your will, that is sexual assault, which is bad, if who consent to grinding you consented to a sex act and ejectulation is a possible by product of that, but you still consented to the act that caused therefor its not a sexual assualt, the orgasm is a byproduct, not some thing that has been done to you, just a reaction to a sex act the dancer is preforming.
And I say this as a disinterested third party because I've never been made to ejactulate from grinding.
And yes grinding aka dry humping is a type of sex, its not masterubation, you can't grind yourself, this isn't the white house, so yeah it sex, lets not kid ourself.
Yeah, it's just like if you offer me a soda and then I piss all over you. That's your fault and you had it coming. The piss is just a natural byproduct of the soda. It's not like I can be expected to be in control of my own body or warn you that I'm about to piss everywhere or anything.
audrey_k
06-24-2014, 03:25 PM
^lol that made me laugh!
SexedUpCat
06-24-2014, 03:33 PM
Kind of reminds me of those guys who drug women and rationalize their actions by saying "well she was passed out she doesn't remember..."
Exactly what I was thinking.
kirakonstantin
06-24-2014, 04:38 PM
Yeah, it's just like if you offer me a soda and then I piss all over you. That's your fault and you had it coming. The piss is just a natural byproduct of the soda. It's not like I can be expected to be in control of my own body or warn you that I'm about to piss everywhere or anything.
And, don't forget, by offering you the soda, they let you know that they consented to be pissed on.
kirakonstantin
06-24-2014, 04:39 PM
Yeah, it's just like if you offer me a soda and then I piss all over you. That's your fault and you had it coming. The piss is just a natural byproduct of the soda. It's not like I can be expected to be in control of my own body or warn you that I'm about to piss everywhere or anything.
And, don't forget, by offering you the soda, they let you know that they consented to be pissed on.
kirakonstantin
06-24-2014, 04:51 PM
Why are you assuming that the grinding is done happily? It's a job. it pays the bills. There are quite a few folks who do things that they would rather not do for a living.
QFT.
Guys, this is a lot like the people who clean out Port A Potties. Probably not their dream job, but they're in it for the paycheck. I doubt that most of them are happy to be pumping out toilets and would be really annoyed if they were sprayed with shit.
Hopper
06-25-2014, 06:29 AM
Um, no. A few years ago several members of this site posted a link to something called "liquid lapdance pants" in several sections of the site. It was a third party site and the links were all posted by members here, not by any sort of marketing affiliation. I don't reacll anyone here thinking that it was a very good idea but a simple search would dig up some old conversation on the topic.
I recall the person marketing the pants posted here (though may not have started the thread) and at least one dancer here, who was a regular, wanted to buy them to sell to customers.
Why are you assuming that the grinding is done happily? It's a job. it pays the bills. There are quite a few folks who do things that they would rather not do for a living. Without getting too far off track here it stands to reason that if they don't like grinding in the first place they are going to enjoy the prospect of ejaculation even less.
Happy or not, they are doing it willingly, for money, and ejaculation is the natural result of the level of sexual arousal strippers aim for in a LD (i.e., as much as possible). I'm not saying dancers should like it or tolerate it (under the circumstances - i.e. they may come in contact with it), but it's going too far to call it assault. A dancer grinds naked up close on a customers dick, while heavily flirting with him, while he gropes her all over. Then he comes. Ugh! How the hell did that happen? Guy must be a rapist!
And, one more time, for the record, there is no way that a dancer knows if the guy is wearing a condom (unless of course he talks about his intentions beforehand, thus eliminating most of what is being debated here) and no way to assure that it will not fall off or break. I've had this happen plenty of times in the relatively relaxed environment of a bedroom, the chances of a hastily applied condom being compromised between the men's room and the PD booth seem pretty good to me...
Well, in court it doesn't really matter if it was an accident or not but we are getting too hung up on definition while ignoring the larger point here. it's not about what the customer may or may not be doing or even what his intentions are. It IS about the fact that he is doing it without discussing it up front with the dancer. A dancer has the right to control what happens in the private dance area. The issue is really no more complicated than that.
I brought up intent because a dancer here said that accidental ejaculation is understandable. Okay, I can see that even ejaculating in a condom is no comfort for the dancer. But let's say there were a guaranteed way to contain it. What would dancers have to object to? They deliberately arouse him all they way up to just to before the point of ejaculation, not offended - actually encouraged - by any outward expression of excitement in this state, including a throbbing boner under his fly, but they are disgusted by whatever noise or facial expression he makes if he blows his load?
No, the difference is that a prostitute expects a customer to ejaculate (note, she doesn't really care if you do or not, she gets paid either way). Assuming that a dancer does her job with the intention a causing a customer to ejaculate is a bit of a slippery slope...as evidenced by the responses in this and other threads
It's a bit like saying I hit someone's hand with a hammer and didn't mean to break his fingers. Grinding is effectively masturbation and ejaculation is the usual result of masturbation. Even indirect stimulation, like an air dance, can naturally have the same result.
Part of the issue here is that most of the customers responding to these threads seem to forget that contact and grinding are not universal in strip clubs all over the country or all over the world. Within fifty miles of my home in the Boston area I can go to clubs where grinding and full-on extras are common and I can also go to clubs where dancers are routinely fired for putting their knee in a guys crotch for just a second or two. For just that reason it's a bit naive to expect the majority of ladies reading here to go along with the POV that is being espoused by some of the male participants in this and other threads. A lot of dancers who post here spend their shifts denying, arguing and fending-off advances that are not readily accepted in the clubs that they work in.
So I gather. But these dancers are talking about ejaculation resulting from air dances as well as from grinding. I spoke about grinding because it's within the range of what is acceptable in SCs, though not all of them.
In all my years on Stripper web the one thing I've learned is that what flies in some strip clubs is never going to meet with much in the way of approval or even tolerance here on the site.
If you mean extras I can understand but dancers should recognize that short of prostitution or illegal extras there is a range of acceptable behavior in various SCs. If not, they are being hypocritical, since many women who are not strippers don't approve of any kind of stripping,
yoda57us
06-25-2014, 07:22 AM
If you mean extras I can understand but dancers should recognize that short of prostitution or illegal extras there is a range of acceptable behavior in various SCs. If not, they are being hypocritical, since many women who are not strippers don't approve of any kind of stripping,
Who says that they don't? Again, "recognizing" that something exists and liking it are two different things. What I see running rampant on this thread from the lady's side is not denial, it's disgust. How again is this being hypocritical? Are you telling me that a dancer who chooses to work no-contact is being hypocritical by criticizing a dancer who chooses to offer extras? That's what it sounds like. As far as what non strippers think of all of this I don't see how that has any relevance at all. We are on Stripper web right now not some civvie blog...
We are all grownups here and we all know that different things happen in different clubs. You aren't in a club right now, you are reading posts on a message board. In the club girls will take your money and pretty much try to make you happy based on whatever is accepted behavior in the club you are in. In addition, the smart ones will go out of their way to make you feel like they are actually enjoying the experience. You aren't going to get that here.
Omegaphallic
06-25-2014, 09:33 AM
These are some of worse analogs ever. No its not like pissing on me after giving a Soda. That would be like if you baked me a cake which my body turned to cum after digesting and I assumed it meant I could orgasm on you.
No your rubbing the penis of a guy who you know is dressed to pop, you not teasing, your making contact. Your doing the rubbing not him. It not just consent to touching, you the one commiting the act of rubbing his penis.
Still I do agree if its just brief contact and he pops that mind boggling and sad.
I will also point out that even if I guy has no intention of popping, drying humping him will likely cause him to leak precum, even if in small amounts.
And yes humping people is sex, in the lesbian community its called tribbing.
I'm not judging here and I don't pop during lapdances (although I do think I had an eargasm once, when a dancer stuck her tongue in my ear).
Look if you really concider it rape when your customer pops call the police and let the courts decide.
oldster
06-25-2014, 10:04 AM
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead:
Aniela
06-25-2014, 10:13 AM
These are some of worse analogs ever. No its not like pissing on me after giving a Soda. That would be like if you baked me a cake which my body turned to cum after digesting and I assumed it meant I could orgasm on you.
No your rubbing the penis of a guy who you know is dressed to pop, you not teasing, your making contact. Your doing the rubbing not him. It not just consent to touching, you the one commiting the act of rubbing his penis.
Still I do agree if its just brief contact and he pops that mind boggling and sad.
I will also point out that even if I guy has no intention of popping, drying humping him will likely cause him to leak precum, even if in small amounts.
And yes humping people is sex, in the lesbian community its called tribbing.
I'm not judging here and I don't pop during lapdances (although I do think I had an eargasm once, when a dancer stuck her tongue in my ear).
Look if you really concider it rape when your customer pops call the police and let the courts decide.
Most of the responses on this thread are from dancers who AVOID sweatpants/athletic pants-wearing customers & why we avoid them. They are also abt the customers who are more physically forceful in having us grind on them to their, ahem, satisfaction. Your post is not only blatantly ignoring these two important points, but trying to shift responsibility from the grown men who should be having better control of themselves, onto the very ppl who are trying to avoid guys 'popping' on them & taking steps to keep that from happening.
whirlerz
06-25-2014, 10:28 AM
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead:
My sentiments about this thread exactly!
MarvelGirl
06-25-2014, 11:06 AM
These are some of worse analogs ever. No its not like pissing on me after giving a Soda. That would be like if you baked me a cake which my body turned to cum after digesting and I assumed it meant I could orgasm on you.
No, it would be like me baking you a cake and then you shitting on me because digested cake turns into shit, not cum. I'm rather disturbed that you don't know that. You are an adult, aren't you?
In fairness, perhaps cake does cause you to have an erection and ejaculate but you should know that doesn't happen to everyone. It's not something people should expect. Otherwise children's birthday parties would be extremely uncomfortable.
It's not even slightly difficult to warn someone that you are about to have an orgasm, or piss on them, or shit on them. If it is difficult for you to provide a friendly warning to someone before dousing them with your bodily fluids, you should seek medical help because something is very wrong with you. I hope you find an effective treatment and get better soon. :)
yoda57us
06-25-2014, 11:13 AM
OK folks debate is one thing but personal attacks will not be tolerated. Consider this a warning to both sides. If you can't formulate a reasonably intelligent argument without attacking another poster it's time to move on from this thread....
Sophia_Starina
06-25-2014, 12:48 PM
Stripping =/= Splooshing.
Sweatpants invite wayward wieners to wiggle in the wafting wind. Wandering wieners want to waggle my woo. NEWS! My woo doesn't want you.
A striptease is meant to titillate... It's not meant to invite wiggly, willful wieners to indulge in their wanderlust.
The STRIPPER job description doesn't mention anything about bringing guys to climax in a thinly veiled sorta-legal oopsy-daisy fashion.
Sweatpants in the club are stupid. If you want to get off, you might want to go on craigslist, backpage, or any local bar 15 minutes before closing and try your luck with the lusty 'ladies' there... or make a booty call. Whatever... none of this is a revelation.
Be an adult. DRESS like an ADULT. Sweatpants aren't meant for the club. Deal with it already.
Omegaphallic
06-26-2014, 09:09 AM
Okay my analogy my have been bad too.
I honestly don't know why I'm even getting evolved, I don't orgasm during a lap dance, and while I've only worn sweat pants a few times, usually I wear casual pants, so why am I defending sweat pants. If you guys don't like it ask management to post a dress code on the front door of your clubs.
I honestly I only go to stripclubs occassionally now anyways to visit a few favourites, now I go to the massage parlour next door instead. Better value for money, mostly, no drunks, less stress, no body bothers me to buy drinks or food I don't want, both me and the girl get a shower before and after right on sight so no strange dude BO.
I don't mean this as a shot at the dancers, there still dancers who I adore, but more at the unnatural dynamic of the stripclub.
lemiwinks31
06-26-2014, 11:11 AM
Okay my analogy my have been bad too.
I honestly don't know why I'm even getting evolved,
Dont worry, you are not there yet.