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View Full Version : "Getting Away" With Hating It: Consent in the Context of Sex Work



HeywoodJablomi
06-04-2013, 02:13 AM
Just thought I'd share this provider-side experience. Apologies if it's old news.

cherryblossomsinspring
06-05-2013, 02:08 AM
"In fact, the clients who I have the hardest time doing my job with are the ones who make the biggest deal out of having my enthusiastic consent. Maybe they want me to tell them what I want (which should more honestly be described as what they want me to want) or maybe they ask for constant feedback on their cunnilingus skills. Maybe they refer to how they were driving me crazy, when I was really writhing in pain thanks to their untrimmed fingernails, and I have to bite my tongue and let them expound on their delusion. Maybe, as was the case with one guy, he takes me on dates where nothing physical happens because when we finally have sex, he wants to “know” it’s because I “want” him, not because he’s paying me. I don’t expect non sex workers to understand this, but I bet many other sex workers reading this feels down to her bones what a grotesque demand that was. Some clients want a good-natured disposition, pleasant company, and a willingness to indulge them physically. They understand the terms of the transaction, and they’re happy to behave accordingly. Other men are so desperately lonely, so insecure, and so floundering in their lives and in themselves, that they want a piece of your soul. (“What’s your real name? Do you like that, (real name)?”)"

^ I was so caught up on this part I couldn't even continue.

Wow is it me or does this seem to be in every sex industry job? I keep having guys take me private and saying "what's your real name?"

I've also see it the same complaint from dancers and I used to have some guy that would yell on phone when I just gave him another fake name:).

I find something is wrong when a man enters the sex industry to pay for it in one way or the other then demands authenticity.

It's as if he wants to act like he's giving money as a gift rather then believing without the money she wouldn't be there.

MissSassyPickles
06-05-2013, 03:55 PM
As a previous escort and current cam girl you are spot on Cherry. There are guys like that in all forms of sex work. They are the worst and the ones I cut off and refuse to see. It's not worth the mental distress.

MissSassyPickles
06-05-2013, 06:09 PM
The perfect escort customer is respectful and understands that it is a unilateral business transaction. It is a service, not dating.

I want YOU to tell me/show me what you want so I can give it to you as quickly and in the best possible most pleasurable way. I want YOU to be happy so that I can see you again to make more money and that you will write a good review for me. Your happiness is my happiness.

I was also in a relationship while I was an escort, so to me anything that would be described above would have been considering cheating. Too intimate.

I loved being an escort, I really did, so don't think my response was implying that I didn't enjoy it. I enjoy making people happy. My best customers were the ones I enjoyed good conversation with, were funny and pleasant to be around, but kept everything superficial and surface level. No deep conversations. Similar to stripping

Enjoy it for what it is, nothing more nothing less.

sierra.
06-05-2013, 06:25 PM
I can understand this sentiment, I mean after all, the post is soooo well written that everyone gets it. But my thinking is along these lines... what does it mean to be a good escort customer? to have no empathy? to remain entirely in the physical plane? what is the point then? perhaps the best you can hope for is to be become an expert at separating the two kinds of sex, the paid for and the not paid for. Ok, so lets say you proceed down that road, wouldn't one impact the other? and if your goal is to become really good at purchasing sex, wouldn't the part of you getting messed up be your unpaid sex persona?

There is a difference between not having empathy and not demanding the person you just paid to have sex with you "enjoy it". These customers are not actually interested in the feelings of the other party, but more with their own ego and sense of entitlement. They are not actually thinking about where you are coming from and how you would like the interaction to go, they are only thinking of how THEY want the interaction to be. It's unfair because these expectations feign concern for the other party when that couldn't be further from the truth, and their expectations are not rooted in the reality of the situation.

A good customer would recognize that it is a business transaction. It's ok to have a good time and get caught up in the fantasy, after all that's what you are paying for, but don't try to make it more than it is, and don't be upset when it isn't that.

You want enthusiastic consent from a partner? Find someone and seduce them. Don't try to demand it from a sex worker in a business transaction.

MissSassyPickles
06-05-2013, 06:40 PM
There is a difference between not having empathy and not demanding the person you just paid to have sex with you "enjoy it". These customers are not actually interested in the feelings of the other party, but more with their own ego and sense of entitlement. They are not actually thinking about where you are coming from and how you would like the interaction to go, they are only thinking of how THEY want the interaction to be. It's unfair because these expectations feign concern for the other party when that couldn't be further from the truth, and their expectations are not rooted in the reality of the situation.

You are SO right Sierra, I never thought of it that way but it totally explains this type of behavior!

roast
06-05-2013, 11:38 PM
I loved that post, like cherry relate to it in every element of the industry Ive been in.The comments section (at least where it is clear it is written by someone in in the industry) for it is equally cathartic. I had dto break it up to absorb it also and clapped to no one in particular at a few parts. The particulars of how or why it makes sense is difficult to break down.

LoveHerButton youre kind of echoing some of the defensiveness some of the comments in that post are getting - why this post resonates so hard with people in the industry is hard to explain unless youve been in the trenches so to speak. I personally cant displace the sense of solidarity I felt with the post/comments to justify hypothetical examples or relationships with certain regulars vs others or specific examples or even give guidelines on the 'solution'. There isnt one. It is just a in-house conversation from people in a certain trade about their trade. I can see why customers or guys interested in women in the industry are handwringing over it and looking for ways to ensure that we understand that they arent that guy or how can they not be that guy or this is how Id suggest you do your job etc etc.... is a bit of an exercise in futility. A few times she said "sex workers will understand how..." and it is difficult to retranslate it so it is more palatable or more understandable to those not in the industry. When you have hundreds if not thousands of customers (depending on the sector of the industry and in varying capacity), it is very hard to pinpoint specific examples or absorb overly granular feedback when the original expressed sentiment is a meta-qualitative analysis of that niche experience.

There are many blogs by Johns. Hell that's what review sites and their forums are. Hobbyists shift the culture of the industry (many adult industries) there is a very different power to being a client of the industry and blogging about it vs blogs like Tits N Sass which are more of a sociological curiosity to those not in the industry, or a forum of catharsis and analysis for those of us in it. :shrug: There is a distinct power differential between hobbyist internet presence and sex worker internet presence.

When I think through my favorite clients, as in ones who would never ever be a footnote on a rant about burnout - theyre not the ones who spend the heaviest (almost never are) -- definitely arent the ones who spend the least though but theyre the ones who get it. Ive had very long term customers who get it and ones who do not, and many inbetween. I dont make it clear to any group that I prefer the other over the other or thatd be unprofessional, but doesnt mean Im very aware of whose service will be more draining, who is overextending cost of admission, etc. And Ive been in most sectors of the adult industry in some capacity. The ones who get it, arent hung on whether or not I know that they get it or not. Empathy isnt a factor - empathy means you understand the experience, so unless Im servicing someone who used to be in the industry..... empathy isnt a factor at all, and clients who think they have empathy are usually demonstrating 'sympathy' which is usually a "I vicariously but dont really understand and am wayy to caught up to have fun"" boner killer. For both of us. The closest I mean are "excited and fun boundaries'. Still a place for serious and deep conversations within this framework but it is hard to explain the nuances of how... I can think of a few examples where this worked easily and awesome... and others where it became a speedy issue. It isnt an all or nothing dynamic.

IDK where yoda is at but Id bet he'd read this post as a customer, shrug, and move on - because just from his posts he 'gets it'. Ive never had him as a customer but his posts to me often reflect that he 'gets it'. In blogging form (forum participation included) from clients, for me at least, that is rare.IDK why but Id venture to guess most are able to compartmentalize their adult entertainment life and keep it simple so there is no need for long expository analyses or oversharing. Maybe, maybe not. IRL, it is more common but difficult to quantify as again this is more a meta-qualitative analysis to people in the industry by people industry.

The ones who dont get it are anxious about whether or not I know they get it.... or dont even consider what "getting it" is. Ego stroking is part and parcel of this work and isnt a bad thing at all, that's the fun of the fantasy . Nor is the demand to be two lifeless husks not having any eye contact rubbing up against each other and being on our merry way once the timer ends. It isnt a one or the other extreme.

The closest word I can think of is maybe discretion or (internally) healthy iindulgence. IDK, even those make it sound like.... being a spy or eating a fine steak. Her piece as is is awesome, breaking it down feels like a disservice to her writing ability, I guess

Idk, I "grok" that blog entry to the teeth. It feels very tough to come up with a non-industry Cliff Notes version of it. And debating its merits feels like speaking in tongues to an Atheist or something? Im overstating it a bit but Ive seen versions of this "help me understand" discussion in that post's thread and see ppl in the industry struggling to explain but being met with resistance or insistence or idk. So just kind of wanted to echo that sentiment here.

BANHammerGoddess
06-06-2013, 02:29 AM
I relate to the article and the comments though I won't get into my personal experiences.

I will use the metaphor of the sweatpants boner man who blows on us and grabs and tweaks and licks and does all these sorts of things because HE likes them. Lunging for our vagina with his nasty tongue does nothing for us, nor does talking about how great his oral skills are. Is it better that he's wearing sweatpants that don't chafe, rather than over-starched jeans (you laugh, but...) sure (so long as sweatpants boner man does not turn into sweatpants wetspot man)-- but acting as if we are supposed to absorb his dirty-talk, and assorted nonsense on something more than a superficial level and REALLY enjoy it?

It's laughable.

The guys I enjoy the most are clean, respectful of my time, are articulate, but don't demand that I enjoy anything. They possibly get on some level that during the whole transaction there is a part of me held separate observing the whole interaction, looking for the minute cues on his face that tell me when to move a certain way or stop doing a certain action and move onto something more pleasurable for him. In terms of being a companion/provider/escort/hooker, I can see how a man demanding oral sex, or trying to really "get off" a woman, all the while talking about his great skills and how he's "not like those other guys" is just as absurd and ego-tistical as those men who I run into almost nightly at the club shift who swear they're "not like those other guys" right off the bat. Do you know what the club guys end up being for the most part? Losers-- time-sinks, ones who come to a strip club and think they're better for being cheap because "they don't pay for dances" or they just want to sit and talk to you about "you" while not paying for your time and this somehow makes them superior to the men who come in and "get it"-- they understand the roles and don't try to subvert them.

Basically, there's a power dynamic between stripper and customer, john and escort-- you pay us and we make it all about you (while observing our particular boundaries.) Don't try to flip the tables and pretend to make it all about us (unless you're paying us extra.) Don't try to see behind to that part of us who's viewing the transaction and trying to make it better for you so all parties are happier. You're just going to interrupt the flow and have a poorer experience if we even decide to dance/sleep/cam for you. The guys who just act "normal", view the transaction for what it is, and allow us to get comfortable with them over time, be it physically or conversationally understand that we decide what we will or won't give you. You don't get to demand that. Doesn't mean we're out to rip you off just because we refuse to give you our real name, or that we're somehow cynical, jaded shrews who are nothing but some stripper/escort stereotype you want to apply to us.

I can also see how, for escorts, just like civilian women out there, men are equating porn life WAY too much with actual sex. I wish guys could see more of the actual FILMING of a porn and how all that stuff is actually not pleasant for the most part, rather than looking at edited hard pounding and thinking that's the way it's supposed to be. Or, just because they've watched this hundreds of times while fwapping off, that's how real sex IS, because OF COURSE, porn is real life, right? I bet that little blonde hussy is just going home right after shooting and wanting to sexually satisfy her husband/boyfriend because she's so horny from all those sex endorphins flooding her system; except really, she's going home and soaking in the bath and putting a heating pad on her lower belly and taking painkillers because holding that pose for 8 retakes sucks, and she's in pain.

Geez, no wonder my old bachelor party boss who escorted on the side said that for her boyfriends she's the most boring lay in the world. Because sexual fantasies nowadays are a fucking circus. They're not real life. Don't stop the show and interrupt the Circus Ringmaster to ask her what she'd really enjoy doing-- because if we say order a pizza, put on sweats, and watch reruns of bad tv, you're going to bitch about that even though that's probably a more "authentic" experience than any "porn" image you have of strippers or escorts.

Just be cool. Be pleasant. Take care of your hygiene. Pay well. Tip if you really liked whatever she did. Tell her thank you. And go see her again. You're not Casanova, we get it. You don't have to be some Don Juan who presses all our buttons and fulfills us completely. Your wife or girlfriend doesn't do that for you (nor, I doubt, do you fulfill all of that for her) so don't expect that. We're both fulfilling a function in this relationship, and no matter the job in the sex industry it's a us fulfilling the function of a sexual fantasy for you, and you fulfilling the function of cash without being an immense pain in the ass for us.

And if you can't take that, just understand you're paying for role-play and you communicate that up-front and pay extra if she charges extra for role play.

"Dear Sugartits;
I'd love to meet with you. However, I want you to pretend that I am a fucking God among men, and I've ruined you for all other dicks... and here's a porn of the script I want us to quasi-follow..."

DonaDiabla
06-06-2013, 02:58 AM
Girls, I have a different point of view about sex work; as a phone sex operator for the past almost 10 years and I will say I dislike the work. However, I tell myself I am actress and allow for me to do my job. Tell myself that I am a siren and I lure money out of men's checkbooks. I believe that more sex workers need to tell themselves that they are good enough to take all of a man's wallet. Also I work out, listen to sexy music, and get ready to put on a show. I want all sex workers to be happy, take the money, and put on the illusion. Also if you can not put on a great illusion, just take an acting class to show you how to put on a happy face.

Djoser
06-06-2013, 02:58 AM
Within about two weeks of starting as a DJ thirteen years ago, I realized why I so rarely enjoyed getting the very rare lapdances in previous years' visits to the clubs, but rather much preferred tipping at stage and the occasional table dance. I knew it was fake and that ruined everything for me. Yet I knew better than to demand they like it. :D

Haven't gotten a dance in the clubs since, except twice friends bought one for me and I couldn't refuse without pissing everyone off. I still tip stage, buy drinks for almost any of them, and sometimes buy girls dances from each other if they are into it. It works for me and keeps the girls happy.

Almost certainly this is one of the most difficult aspects of the stripping (and escort) business. It cannot be easy pretending to like grinding on every guy that pays 20$; yet adopting a cold, mechanical style in self-defense won't be profitable either (though I've seen many a dancer make it work, but they are invariably in the top % of girl lookswise--i.e. they can get away with it with most guys lol).

Kind of like pretending to be all excited about putting women who don't want to dance onstage on shitty nights, but a lot more personal due to the grinding. It requires a great deal more effort as a DJ on slow nights, I have found (and for less money if it's slow of course, kind of a double whammy thing).

I know there's a lot of guys who realized the same thing as I did, but still enjoy it a great deal--more power to them so long as they don't make unreasonable demands for false enthusiasm, etc.

BANHammerGoddess
06-06-2013, 03:05 AM
I'm not down for women making it very clear that their sexual excitement doesn't really enter into the equation. I actually love giving lapdances-- but there's a range that guys fall on-- groping, grabby guy out to get everything he can on one end, and then there's "I'm not like the other guys" let me pleasure YOU guy (but it's obviously about he's ego because c'mon, we just met and I'm not built like that.)

The guys in the middle are the ones I love dancing for. Sometimes I'm into it because I'm having fun and the music is good, but once the guy starts trying to mind fuck me into having me so sexually turned on, it really puts a damper on the whole thing.

I don't think a lapdance is unenjoyable for most women but there's obviously variables-- do our feet/back/legs hurt? Is the guy a pain in the ass? Is the DJ playing something besides heavy trance/electronic music? no to all three? well then, shit yeah, I'm having a good time dancing for the guy because I like dancing, and being paid to dance is awesome too :)

Djoser
06-06-2013, 03:22 AM
^^^It's been very interesting to have to watch cameras of the private dance and Champagne Rooms (so I know who to skip onstage or who might be running a little late, where that missing girl I keep calling is, etc.).

The vast majority of the dances I've seen being given do not look like fun at all to me. But there are some dancers like yourself who seem to enjoy it more (as much as I can tell from the camera anyway) if the guys are respectful, and you can tell it would be a lot more fun. Worst of all, of course, the women who are holding the guys hands the whole time so they can't grope them. I simply do not understand guys like this.

I've also had a few girlfriends who gave me dances outside the clubs, who seemed like they would probably like doing it for a gentleman. Which is kinda cool. :)

BANHammerGoddess
06-06-2013, 03:31 AM
I don't have the way to word this because I have not thought it through all the way myself--

however, I do not find giving lap dances sexy for myself. At work, I love the money, and I have fun (because I can pretty much make anything fun and I consider it good exercise. Plus, there is always validation in knowing, whatever your job, that people are enjoying what you are providing, be it service or product.)

When I've tried to give a lapdance at home, it is awkward. I feel that the small part of me observing in order to accommodate the male sexual fantasy pleasure is too clinical, so instead I try to get into it like I'm Jamie Lee Curtis is True Lies and I utterly fail.

I do not hold myself accountable for this. It's no one's fault. It's just that even though I may occasionally sexually fantasize about having a really hot lapdance experience (and making money to boot!) I don't find it sexually pleasureable (or rarely-- maybe once every year or two am I "wowwed" physically during the whole time with the guy.)

If I were to draw a conclusion I guess it would be that HAVING to sexually enjoy something makes it no longer even possible to have anything but an awkward experience. Enjoying one's self as far as one is able without it having to "be" anything than what it is, providing a good service, and getting paid--these are all excellent aspects of the sexual industry that make things pleasant, and provide the groundwork for future experiences that are even more pleasurable as the comfort level increases.

Djoser
06-06-2013, 03:42 AM
^^^Oh yeah I didn't mean to say that the women "who seem to enjoy it more" or "would probably like doing it for a gentleman" were actually getting aroused. Though I know this does happen with a few dancers sometimes, it's pretty rare.

I meant as more of a sensual/artistic performance feeling.

I got what you were saying. Your writing ability is clear.

BANHammerGoddess
06-06-2013, 03:53 AM
Also

: It makes me feel bad when guys act as though, unless it's as sexy for me as it is for them, that there's something wrong with the performance-- even though, if the performance stayed the same but my inner experience was different, it would be phenomenal. Or, that I'm just out for their money even though, since it's my job, I wouldn't do it for free. Certain men act as if I have only two options: taking pleasure in it because I'm a gold-digging whore (interesting that the word whore is so synonymous with someone who's just in it for the cash since whore by itself is so sexual) or taking pleasure in it because I'm sexually stimulated.

I'm not directing this at you or anything you said. I'm thinking through how this article and comments relate to my experiences.

I do wonder though, since we went through a wave of emotionally sensitizing males during the 90s if there were always dumb male tiddly-dicks who acted as if they were all about female pleasure when they were anything but (while paying for it, though those who don't pay but act the same way are also dumb tiddly-dicks) or if this is some backlash from the nineties from men who were in puberty or beyond and have just subsumed this vocal mantra of "Female pleasure is important to me." It's always the ones who TALK about it SO MUCH who are annoying. Is it just easier to ignore those who try to do stupid stuff like blow on me when they're not talking incessantly about how they're so great at cunnilingus that they date so many strippers who have told them they're the best they've ever had, blah blah blah, verbal vomitus infinitus.

Djoser
06-06-2013, 04:02 AM
...verbal vomitus infinitus.

:rotfl:


The guys who go on and on ad nauseum about how important it is to please the woman are actually much more concerned with pumping up their own self-esteem. They really aren't as concerned--deep down--with delivering 'wave after wave of heel pounding, teeth-clenching, pounding the headboard with her skull' orgasms as they are with making sure everyone knows they can do it. Worst of all, the guys who actually believe their own line of shit in this respect.

joshg
06-06-2013, 05:15 PM
Haven't read through all the responses yet, but wanted to say


it is very hard to pinpoint specific examples or absorb overly granular feedback when the original expressed sentiment is a meta-qualitative analysis of that niche experience.

this is a hugely worthwhile sentence to consider

BANHammerGoddess
06-07-2013, 12:04 AM
BTW, if you know of a blog written by a john who really examines what the impact of purchasing sex has been on his life, please let me know. Mostly all I can find are reviews.

http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/the-good-life-confessions-of-a-call-girl-client/

it was linked in the comments to OP link.

cherryblossomsinspring
06-07-2013, 01:51 AM
I can agree to this when it comes to escorting but I cannot agree to this regarding stripping. If a stripper really wants to make it about me, she should let me know if she likes spending time with me. If she is not enjoying her time, then I will find another girl. That would really be making it all about me. It is not that I am an unselfish lover. I am very selfish. I am so selfish that I insist on being involved to some degree with the woman's mind. Does that make me a shitty strip club customer? possibly but I am lucky that I can find one or two girls who really have me convinced that they are having a good time. Spent an hour with one girl last week and only gave her $20. We were laughing so much I forgot to give her more money. I will make it up to her, but that is the kind of stripper I like. It is NOT because I got away with so much time, or that 'she is not just doing it for the money' it is because I can see that she really enjoys my company to the point where she forgets the money. That is what makes me loyal to her. btw, I know about the 'subtle hustle'.

The power dynamic is interesting and something else I have been thinking about but I think this post should only be about this well written blog.



This right here is a problem. You expressed one of the things I hate most about you as a customer. The fact that you desire her to forget about her own survival in need of feeling she enjoys your company. Then "I'll make it up to her". That should have been done before you walked out the door yet that would take away your high.

In cam I have experienced this type all too much. Also in the pre-booked phone types where a cut off option isn't there. They get to the end of their time and starting talking rapidly in a desperate attempt to extend time. One phone customer said to me " I don't pay for conversation only for sex talk". So I said ooh great then you can shut the fuck up now since your time is up. He did this back to back always trying to find a way to push boundaries. When this didn't work he used a tactic of trying to insult industry workers because haha he knew I wouldn't let that slide. This is not only exhausting but it's never worth the money the person is spending. They never "make it up or back" because again they don't want to feel like they are paying for anything. They really think they are helping out when they are costing her.

A fair exchange of fun and money for time is all that is required to make a person in the industry enjoy you as a customer. Once you try to squeeze out more than what you're paying for, you're the very person that creates what you dislike " the rushing hustle type dancer". That dancer has met your type and went home broke or left the club empty handed after all of the fees caught up to your " she forgot about the money" fun.

Again as you state you don't care and specifically seek out one that will not notice until it's too late and she'll despise you for it. I have always despised those types because their selfishness is like someone hanging DEATH over my head and telling me to enjoy impending doom.

I just had this argument with 5 guys today. They were blocked for I see "blinking death" whenever they continue on their selfish need for validation.

Here's a way you can get your fix before hand:

1) Let her forget and then toss the amount of money she lost by sitting with you at the end.

^ This never happens or rarely does. However I've been lucky enough to have someone pop in, watch that selfish guy and then tip me 3-4 times whatever I was originally seeking . This guy that really gets it just became a GOD in my room. Sure other men frown on White Knightismn but it makes me wet!

Under my own member account I do this in other cam model rooms. I see the never ending selfish babbler and then I start a token bombing. It alerts the model of the time waster because we all forget sometimes. Plus it puts pressure back on this guy to either get off some money or he ends up announcing "calling it a night". He goes to another room and starts this all over again from scratch.

What I tend to do to those types is ignore their exit. It's funny because they hang on waiting for "good bye" but I just let them sit there and then poof their user name disappears after a 5-15 min wait. lol Other times they sit in my room and feel smaller as my tone for the " I get you" guy is filled with excitement and gratitude.

sierra.
06-07-2013, 07:43 AM
I agree that "demanding enthusiastic consent" is unfair in the current escort system, but that is because the woman are not going to be upfront about their level of enthusiasm because they may lose money. If there was a kind of speed dating where escorts could pick from a large pool of guys who are looking for uncomplicated sex, and IF they choose the guy they COULD be enthusiastic about, the whole process might be more fulfilling for everyone.

Setting aside the impracticalities of the hypothetical system you proposed, I think you are missing the point. Sex work is work. Sometimes you just don't feel like it but you have bills to pay, regardless of who the customer is. It's not about finding fulfilling sexual encounters, it's about making money. The problem does not lie with the lack of enthusiasm of the part of the sex worker, the problem lies with customers making unreasonable and selfish demands.




I can agree to this when it comes to escorting but I cannot agree to this regarding stripping. If a stripper really wants to make it about me, she should let me know if she likes spending time with me. If she is not enjoying her time, then I will find another girl. That would really be making it all about me. It is not that I am an unselfish lover. I am very selfish. I am so selfish that I insist on being involved to some degree with the woman's mind. Does that make me a shitty strip club customer? possibly but I am lucky that I can find one or two girls who really have me convinced that they are having a good time. Spent an hour with one girl last week and only gave her $20. We were laughing so much I forgot to give her more money. I will make it up to her, but that is the kind of stripper I like. It is NOT because I got away with so much time, or that 'she is not just doing it for the money' it is because I can see that she really enjoys my company to the point where she forgets the money. That is what makes me loyal to her. btw, I know about the 'subtle hustle'.

Right, that's kind of the point. Faux-concern for sex worker's enjoyment, when really your motives are completely selfish. Being overly preoccupied with the idea that they want you in a capacity outside of the business arrangement, needing constant reassurance of this, and making this the focal point of the interaction is selfish. You don't actually care if they are having a nice time- in fact by behaving this way you are more than likely ensuring their experience is less than optimal - you only care that your desires are catered to. Desires that are overly-demanding and unrealistic in the first place.

Does this make you a bad customer? Well, it sure as fuck doesn't make you a good one.

MissSassyPickles
06-07-2013, 08:19 AM
^ You're not the type of customer we want anyway, that is the point. Most customers are not like you. As I stated before I gladly refuse money from customers like you and it is 110% worth it. For every type of customer like you there are multiple customers that get it that become regulars. You are the minority not the majority. Thank the lord.

MissSassyPickles
06-07-2013, 09:14 AM
Why are you wasting your time trying to find a sexworker that genuinely likes you? If you want someone that really likes you find a date or a girlfriend.

knightwish
06-07-2013, 09:14 AM
really interesting read. I have never been a customer, mostly because I want the connection with the woman's mind. But I have thought about it and thanks to links found here on SW, I have discovered how many escorts are really attractive! :)

been thinking a lot about this comment and how it relates to my desires and growth (must be a better word but I am tired):

"But there’s a stickiness, an uncomfortable crossing or blurring of boundaries with someone who somehow wants you to act as though you’re their girlfriend. It’s funny, isn’t it. The guys who genuinely want you to come, genuinely want to know about you, genuinely appear to care about your feelings – well, that’s what we want in our private lives, right? So the guys who make good lovers or partners may not be very good clients, if they then take those behaviours into the massage parlour room or whatever. And the good clients, the ones who allow a sex worker not to disguise her lack of desire for sex – who don’t care if you’re not enjoying it – might not make such great lovers. "

I've had the sort of cross over relationship you are talking about. I always like to tell clients who want to get to know the real girl, "the curtain is there for your benefit and is part of your fantasy. You probably really don't want to remove look behind it." You have to get that you aren't having sex with the women directly, the woman is playing a role and you are having sex with their character creation. It is like an actress and the character they play.

The relationship you are talking about is in practice more friendly than sexual. It often doesn't start that way, originally the reason you as a client got involved in the whole relationship is because you were magnetically attracted to the fantasy persona. You get to know them, you genuinely begin to like the real them as a friend. At the same time as the layers strip away, they take with it most of those things that made them into your fantasy. The real women underneath is in some ways the same person as the fantasy but with all their personality levers adjusted. They don't have to downplay the parts of their personality or being that you aren't attracted to because it is not their job to attract you anymore. So for example if the women is a huge sports fan, and you could care less, your fantasy girlfriend isn't going to talk sports because it bores you and it is their job to entertain you. Get to know the real women and you will be hearing sports stuff all the time, because that is what the real women is interested in and that's what getting to know her is about.

When you stop paying, it is no longer about you. When a guy says they want to get to know their mind, mostly I think guys are full of crap. What they generally want is to get to know the mind of the fantasy girl wearing the mask. Well the fantasy girl doesn't have a mind, she is a character in a drama you are paying to have put on. The real women playing that fantasy girl does have a mind but she's not the one you are interacting with inside the drama. When you expose your emotions to them as a client, from their perspective, you are doing it so that they can better construct their fantasy girlfriend for you. You aren't really sharing, you are taking. Once you realize that's she putting on a show for your benefit so you have a fun time and give her money, you honestly become a lot safer to have the kind of chit chat you are asking for. When you can't separate the women acting from the fantasy girlfriend in your own head you are making it impossible for you to connect to them as they really are because you can't see who they really are.

I don't want this to sound negative at all, it is hugely positive. Learning this was really great for my marriage. When I compared the fantasy girl to my real wife, I often wondered if I had made terrible mistakes. I was very happy with meeting the real women who do this kind of work and it is wonderful to have had and still sometimes do have the opportunity to work backstage and support them in putting on the show. When I compared the real women to my real wife, while still enjoying spending time in this kind of relationship there was no doubt in my mind that if I had it to do over again (and everybody's age was adjusted to make things appropriate) I would have made the same choices I did.

Hope that helps.

HeywoodJablomi
06-07-2013, 12:37 PM
You have to get that you aren't having sex with the women directly, the woman is playing a role and you are having sex with their character creation.

Exactly. It's like when kids say, "Let's make believe," and then play out fantasy roles. The client who is trying to get to know the provider behind the role and is seeking personal validation from her is screwing up the game. He's like the kid who is bad at "make believe" games. How sad is that?

Also, he's not just "annoying" and "exhausting" as has been duly noted in this thread, but he may also seem menacing. That guy is more likely to be the stalker and attacker. Since providers in this industry are often targets of violence, when they talk about guys being "creepy" and about operating in "survival" mode they're not speaking metaphorically.

It's also worth considering the obverse. The provider who is overly interested in getting to know the real guy behind the client's persona is also creepy. I don't go into the SC as myself but as a make believe person that I've made up. Nor will I see an escort who needs to know my real identity, my place of work, etc. And I don't want to "get real" in conversation. It's an escape.

Do I hope the provider might enjoy herself, too? Yes. But I can't reasonably demand it, or expect it, or be too concerned about it. Is it a turn on to me to imagine that she is enjoying herself? Yes again. But that's just because the good fantasy is the one you can get a little bit caught up in. But not too much. It's a fine line, which is why this thread is interesting to me.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

knightwish
06-07-2013, 03:12 PM
Also, he's not just "annoying" and "exhausting" as has been duly noted in this thread, but he may also seem menacing. That guy is more likely to be the stalker and attacker. Since providers in this industry are often targets of violence, when they talk about guys being "creepy" and about operating in "survival" mode they're not speaking metaphorically.

LoveHerButton is being annoying in a way lots of men are. I think by accident, two days from now hopefully he gets it in his head. He won't get it in his heart I think until he does get to look behind the curtain but that can't happen until he gets it in his head. There is a huge degree of difference between being an intrusive client and getting violent. Let's not minimize that.

In terms of the ones who are violent. I don't want to thread jack but for my $.02. Yes. I wish sex workers would organize better and get political power. I think vice is shameful in how they handle sex workers. I have to comply with FCC regulators. They meet with other industry players and myself at least once a year to jointly determine what the regulations are going to be. We come to an agreement. And if we have problems we can usually count of FCC enforcement to help out. Vice doesn't meet with their regulated and try and worth through problems together. And worse for public safety, vice conversely doesn't do squat to help sex workers when they have problems. I see no reason for legal business like strippers their relationship with vice shouldn't be similar to mine with the FCC and they should be able to get the kind of protection they need from their regulators. But that's a pipe dream for now.


It's also worth considering the obverse. The provider who is overly interested in getting to know the real guy behind the client's persona is also creepy. I don't go into the SC as myself but as a make believe person that I've made up. Nor will I see an escort who needs to know my real identity, my place of work, etc. And I don't want to "get real" in conversation. It's an escape.

I get your point. I hate crossing over during play time. I don't mind crossing over before. So for example I have stripper friends and in a social setting obvious we will talk about whatever. I've never gotten and don't want a dance from any outside the club friends. With women whom I know strictly ITC I can context switch, but I can't stand it when girls get too nosy in the clubs when I'm trying to get frisky. For them, I want the attention on your tits and my cock not which preschool you should pick for your son! But mostly they don't do that. My guess is this is a 90/10 problem ITC with guys crossing the line far more than the ladies.

Masseuses never try and engage me that way. Escorts are pretty similar. Though after I've cum if there is still some time on the clock I might lounge around, smoke touch her naked body and chat about semi-real life topics. Though I'd prefer they offer to get my engine going for a second round or do a sensual shower or... With dominatrixes, which is where I have the most social experience, the dungeon creates a terrific dividing line. If I'm playing with a dom who works a vanilla job in fashion we might meet for dinner after her work and talk real life stuff. But once we are in the dungeon I strip and she changes into dom clothes, the only thing I want her talking about is how many lashes I'm getting or how fast she wants me to suck her pee off the floor. I actually do "time out / time in" if I have to do something real life in the dungeon context and I have to break character. I've had doms ever break character when: either they are young and inexperienced and just learning the craft or twice when I was too emotionally / physically shot and need 5-10 minutes to come down a bit from something that was too emotionally intense (i.e. for my benefit).

Djoser
06-08-2013, 01:04 AM
LoveHerButton don't get upset, it's just the internet.

I believe JaBlowme was NOT referring to you personally as a stalker--which is against the rules--but the hypothetical customer who insists on getting personal in a business transaction in the stripclub.

Very much a common problem, as customers are so often encouraged to believe the women are just dying to dry hump them and are hanging on every word they say, when logic would indicate no woman could possibly be that horny or that into so many boring guys all night every night. The women are selling a fantasy--the smart guys take it for what it is. Unfortunately delusional thinking is rife in the industry, and not always just in the customers either.

None of us were there when you had the great time with the dancer and gave her 20$, and none of us know how much you will give her next time, or how she really feels about you. If you were straight up with her, told her you didn't want to get any dances right up front, she still hung out with you of her own free will, and you gave her a twenty and will give her more later--no one could possibly criticize you. If you somehow misled her into thinking you would get dances after she hung with you a while it would be different. We don't know that, of course.

cherryblossomsinspring
06-08-2013, 04:01 AM
ah the "stalker card", often pulled by the guy who wants to impress the ladies. go on with yourself. ah fuck its your thread and I appreciate your link but you may want to check yourself if the word 'stalker' is at the front of your mind.

I am done with this discussion. You all want to have your fantasies and I want a straight up woman who is honest with me and likes to take her clothes off for me.

If someone has good insights about why women do not go to see escorts I may jump back in but otherwise, happy clubbing everyone.


What I do "sometimes" with your type is I give them exactly what it is they are asking for. The Truth.

So a guy will say " What's your real name". I'll ask them why would they ask such a thing and what are their intentions?? Yup boring as hell but strangely the person goes quiet. What I decide to do is make your type think. Think hard about what they are doing and trying to get them to see where they are. I'll even go so far as to ask them "what site did you log into?". Can you tell me the name? No response they just sit in the room and stalk.

When they push for more I start prying into their lives. How old are you? How much do you weight? What's the size of your cock? Do you function or do you need pill assistance? Are you married? etc

^OOh I know sounds crappy right? But But .. he wants honesty right? So that's what I'm going to give him. Have I lost members off of it? Sure To me it's more important that I be honest right? Plus those types don't spend enough to matter.

Now I'll flip things for what has attracted me to a cam customer so you can see how honesty works for someone that is looking out for my well being.

Man pops in pays over anyone there and when I mean tipping he tips a few thousand dollars. Hello there.. $20 or $40? lol Not going to shake my interest at all. The guy wants me to see him above the rest then he has to show me in a language I understand $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Stand out from the crowd if you want me to see you as such. I can't do that if you're paying the less or the same as everyone else.

Guy gets on cam ?? Guess what ? He's attractive. Huh?? This handsome sexy guy just tipped me a few thousand?? So we're off to skype to do a show. He doesn't want a sexual show?? What??? You don't want me to get naked and play with my naughty bits??? Hmm that's a change from the norm. Hmmmmmm

Did I also forget to mention he was shy? Sexy accent too?

Hello reality?? Hello honesty!!

This man said "I don't even know your name"... My name is -------------------. Guess what he got it without hesitation? Sure I'm breaking the work only code but he was exactly what I would want in a man visually , attitude, financial etc.

He was a virgin to cam. You could see it in his attitude in his feelings of how uncomfortable he was with the whole set up. Something about that made me desire him even more. So sweet ,so incredibly innocent and yet so very generous.

Every time I logged into the site he was there within minutes. I put up a goal he tipped the entire amount. I put up a chip in ? It was paid for in full.

He wanted to get to know the real me and he got all of that without batting an eyelash. Why??? because he took care of what I desired most. Comfort, the ability to kick my feet up and skip out of work because hey I can watch movies all day with a handsome guy that has just sent me roses. Ohh yes he would send me sweet gifts.

I was slowly allowing him into the inner confines of my personality which he accepted completely. He wasn't seeking fantasy and he made sure to take care of my reality. A true gentleman :)

So you see it's very possible but a man would never get my interest based solely on desiring me to forget my own survival. He's in essence telling me my needs don't matter and it's all about him? Why would that ever made a good partner at all? If he's doing that then he's doing exactly what every man in that same little space is doing yet in much more intrusive manner.

Selfishness isn't sexy on anyone least a person coming into a adult business that is based on $ for time and attention. Any man that wants my interest will have to keep his cock out of the equation and spend quite comfortably. Yes he has to put his desires aside for the woman in question. He needs to put my needs first. If he can't do that well then I don't want him. It will be business as usual. He pays we play and he goes away. Simple:)

What I always found odd in cam was that the cheapest penny pincher type was always the most unattractive the most needy and the most unrealistic, overbearing individual in the room. These types always get in their own way because they need far more than what's even humanly possible to give them. They are the types that spend $2,000 over 200-500 women typically pushing for personal information after they hand over $20. It's so unattractive not to mention their looks, body type, age etc that they make all women go "eww".

Have dancers, escorts, cam models etc made a "connection" through work that ended up in a relationship or marriage? Sure but there's usually a way in which this man approaches. First a guy approaching every woman would not get my interest. He's desperately seeking which is unattractive.

Oh and the why don't women see male escorts to find a "connection"?

A. Women never have to pay for a man's attention. In most cases we would pay to not attract attention at all.
B. Women don't ever have to pay for sex. A dating profile with a picture gets hundreds upon hundreds of men contacting her.
C. Women would never be dumb enough to go into an environment where a man is actually being paid for sex and attention and think if she pays him that he'll be interested in more. Realistically a woman would have to think what would a man want? Most tend to want sex. Since he's getting that plus he's being paid for it , she wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Her only option would be to A. be attractive and B. Would have to pay over and above any woman he's had in the past but how many women are really going to do that? Not too many. The ease in which men seek women out for sex is far too great and easy that women realistically need to just be there.

Correction: There are some women that are that dumb. Those are also the ones that have sex for validation. So yes a woman may go to a male escort with the intention of " he will love me" usually throwing sex at him in every way possible. For men that may for a short stint but it's not long lasting. Many after awhile get turned off to the treated like a piece of meat. If she continues to push she gets named "bat shit crazy stalker bitch".

Women and men tend to be motivated by different things. He may give her a nice foot , massage or run a nice bubble bath for her. In essence pampering is at the top of the list. Sex is there as well. Generally she's looking for a man that is into her pleasure and looking for him to hit all the right spots while putting his desire on the back burner. Romance is huge. Don't get me wrong. Some women want to be fucked raw.

You can tell a male escort ad for women vs men in a heart beat.

Male escort ad for men will usually include" 8 inch thick cock , pumping holes, meat, let me fill you with my hard rod...
Male escort ad for women will usually include " pampering, your pleasure and comfort, taking his time is of the utmost importance....One big thing is that many of these women don't actually have sex with male escorts. Sure some do but usually after several appointments where the conform level is there.

Notice a difference?

There was an article a few years back of a gorgeous international model that only sees male escorts. One would think but she's hot? Sure but in general the men that approach her are seeking to use her looks and body for their own benefit not the other way around. So she goes to male escorts that will put her needs first.

The monetary aspect keeps things in perspective to some degree. You always hear men says " they pay women to leave" but that's utter bullshit. They pay women to show up.

I watched "Magic Mike" guess what? I was giggling like a school girl. It's fun and sexy but I'm not thinking of mounting the guy in general.

Another example:

Member in my room tips for conversation. He's nice but I always got this 50+ vibe from him. So after about a year of conversation and a small tip here and there , a private every once in a while he decided to get on cam. I've always felt he was scared to show himself usually fearing rejection or disgust etc. So one day he says fine he'll turn on his cam for me and .........

I was blown away. We're talking rippled abs, model features, 8-9 inch thick member. This guy has male model looks. My response sent a grin over his face.

Now you wonder why would this handsome guy hide himself? He wants women to be interested in what he has to say and not gloss over conversation because of what he looks like. Yes hot men have problems too. The attention is great but every once in a while they don't want to viewed as another piece of meat, or just a pretty face.

roast
06-09-2013, 06:14 AM
Id see an escort in a minute. I have plans to in the future. I think itd be thriling to have a sexual encounter that is just about me and my own needs? With no expectations beyond a good time that I paid and can tip for, omg! Are you kidding? Thrilling. Im more interested in a woman for this but you never know. im even in a relationship as well, so I get the interest in it 100%. Women can get laid at any time yes but doesn't mean it'll go well, I'm proquality and an experienced partner. It is great way to reduce opportunity cost of bad boring smelly or drunk hook ups. Go efficiency.

Hell, I went to a stripclub recently and I remain very much affixed "behind the curtain" and still had a great time? I tipped more than the men there bc of being behind the curtain.... but I also know that that would also enhance the experience, so I did. I buy porn, I know a bit about what happens behind the scenes, and still enjoy it.

In fact there is a trend in South/East Asia of women in the industry seeking out "hosts" or male escorts for sexual entertainment - people in the industry double dipping their income back into the industry is more common than I knew. Also there are a bunch of male escorts on sites like Adultwork.com where you see reviews from women who saw them. So it happens. Women just dont participate in "hobbyist" culture for a myriad of reasons, so it seems less common. the demand is wayy lower but it isnt nonexistent.

Youre assuming immediate contempt or disinterest from the provider (which... youve said you havent seen an escort yet? which is why I invoke Yoda lol who prob doesnt care abt this, but he's very open about seeing escorts), which is unfortunate and dampers your ability to just have fun. Youre making "paid performance" and "inauthentic" synonymous. Just relax and enjoy yourself? That's honestly just the point :shrug: that's what we get paid the big bucks for. Part of the fun is that you dont notice youre paying for it. If youre with a provider who you feel doesnt like you and is faking it, there are usually a handful of reasons:

1. She's burned out and gives two shits.
2. She's just not bringing her A game that day or in general
3. Youre indundating an amazing provider with your anxiety about her authenticity so theyre unsure how to proceed, regardless of whether or not she was totally enjoying you to begin with.
4. Boundaries are being crossed so she has to assert them, which for those very sensitive to rejection or boundary-making may feel that this is a 'diss'. But it often protects her and also your rapport to her even if you cant see it.

For example, guys who overlook gentle nudges when their time is over may feel like she doesnt 'really like him' and get upset (a form of demand of enthusiastic consent is exceeding the amount of money spent : time ratio). It is seen as an affront or a sign she 'doesnt actually like me' or this experience, or our interactions, when it is just boundaries, has nothing to do with authenticity. Ive seen people irl and online who I very much enjoy the time of - but when the time is done, the time is done. Same with those who I dont really enjoy the time of. That's just how it flushes out in a transactional relationship.

#4 for me is usually how the types in this article come out the most... and are often in denial of it. Thats why so many of us are reacting to this bc we intimately know these types and they can make or exhaust a shift, appointment,etc. They see normative boundaries as rejection. Which is unrealistic, vanilla women have boundaries but the expectation as an industry worker is she is available beyond most basic boundaries. They see her not giving her 'real' Facebook account which means it is all a ruse. Which is unrealistic. The industry is a great place to escape rejection so some may be very oversensitive and misinterpret or look at boundaries as rejection. This article is more about those who demand no boundaries really. No amount of hunting (like cherry's example of guys spending thousands on hundreds of diff camgirls testing who is 'real' and who isn't over $5-20 , and guilt trips when she invariably fails.... Everyone who cams knows that guy lol) will be satisfying. Or one great (or very amateur abt boundaries) provider will be found but she quits or goes UTR or moves or begins charging more, and the bar is set so high that the person can't move on. Some guys in the latter group transform into becoming obsessed with very young and/or painfully green and/or sometimes the blatantly addicted performers, which .... Idk, that's another conversation.

I think largely if you are an occasional or rare patron of the industry, drawing back the curtain hoping to find women who are always 'on' the way we're on when you meet us uh in the field will be pretty crushing. Doesnt mean that duality is false, it is just there and something we have. Doesnt mean fun isnt being had. Doesnt mean we wont remember you later. Doesnt mean friendships arent formed... but theyre not formed with all clients the same way all the time. That's less about work and more just about human interaction. I think being unwilling/supersensitive to hear or out read ppl's direct feedback means you're that guy, listening to feedback will help you have more fun as a customer by a longshot. Refusing to hear that feedback prob means in a few months you'll be resentful and bitter, which is too bad. But I know I see that cycle alllllllllll of the time.

HeywoodJablomi
06-09-2013, 11:44 PM
@JaBlowme - ok, sorry, I think I misread your comment. It is one of the things I hate most about the internet. With context getting twisted, some times comments I read or write can seem more contentious than they otherwise would.
How am I supposed to accept your apology when you can't even write my name properly? It's Heywood Jablomi.

HeywoodJablomi
06-09-2013, 11:45 PM
Have a little respect.

Djoser
06-09-2013, 11:54 PM
I don't think he meant disrespect.

LoveHerButton from what I've seen working the clubs 13 years and also before as occasional customer, there are always some girls that 'enjoy' all different kinds of customers. They may not have an emotional experience, but they are a lot less bored waiting for dances from other guys, when sitting with 'their kind of guy to hang with', especially if he is buying drinks, tipping her onstage, throwing her some money for hanging with her if it is a long time and he is obviously enjoying it. Some girls won't ever sit with any kinds or waste time with them if there are no dances going to happen. They are never going to 'have fun' with a guy like you, or whatever. But that shouldn't matter to you at all.

So long as you are up front about your intentions and not demanding you should be fine.

As far as the responses, you gotta understand this is a forum for dancers. They tend to react when they get the impression someone is telling them how they should act at work. You will find there is a little different perspective in customer forums like our own Stripclubjunkies.com

And yet another totally different perspective in a Facebook DJ group I belong to. ;D

HeywoodJablomi
06-10-2013, 04:49 PM
I don't think he meant disrespect.
Yeah, I was just playing. It's obviously a joke name.

roast
06-10-2013, 11:25 PM
I remember I tried the 'dont tip me ;)' thing with people before early on and it always backfired tremendously. Took me awhile to pickup how it did, but it always did. I thought theyd understand that they should pay or tip a lot later on, like my bending the rules = theyd reward me for it. A few did but it altered our dynamic / their perception of me and our rapport in a way impossible to recover. Reading Customer Convo I see people still try this, it is a horrible idea. All it is is a great way to gas someone's head up without reward.

For an escort - if she went through the whole problem of shoehorning me into her schedule and insisted I dont pay? Id leave the money out and available anyway. Or Id leave?My patronage of the overall industry is very occasional so thatd make it even weirder. If she goes back and forth with talking about the fee before anything started that is.... dangerous for her or I guess LE bait but Id assume she is dangerously green to the industry and would be confused or even nervous about it. I dont think it is charming to not be a professional about your job.

"dead fish"? people like a lot of things but if youre asking if the session didnt go well, what can I do? Ive already paid. Id just thank her for her time and not see her again. Couldve been me, couldve been her, couldve just been a mismatch, couldve been how the planets are aligned. Either way it didnt flush out well so oh well? Can try again with someone else when Im up for it. Seems super simple to me? Im just buying time from a human being so the course of the outcome isnt fully in my hands anyway, that's part of the lure. It is a somewhat informed gamble, buying any kind of entertainment means youre committing to some of your disposable income just being disposable and not working out . Anything else is unrealistic and overly sentimental.

But vanilla women have boundaries and walls, most healthy people in general do :shrug; There arent many jobs I can think of where no boundaries are encouraged (Reality TV actor? Dairy cow inseminator?), so I cant relate to that... nor is it at all applicable to adult entertainment where we engage a wide variety of people.

IDK Im kind of repeating myself, and this has become less about the article and an insight to the industry to more of iterations of Customer Conversation's "does she really like me" haha. Which given the content of the original article is a bit ironic. But hey, every overthinking or boundary-pushing customer has a match of an expert dancer/provider/etc out there.

yoda57us
06-10-2013, 11:45 PM
BTW, I don't think this part of my personality is helpful on this forum. Fortunately it doesn't seem to hurt me in the real life SC. My fav says I am pushy but not in an annoying way. I got lucky to find her because I am getting the sense that a lot of strippers would find me pushy in an annoying way.

This may come as a surprise to you but strippers will often take money from annoying customers...

BANHammerGoddess
06-11-2013, 03:33 AM
This may come as a surprise to you but strippers will often take money from annoying customers...

and in some cases they're taking *more*

If a customer is annoying/asshole/pushy and accidentally overpays me (in a really obvious way) I'm going to assess the asshole tax and keep it, whereas with most of the guys who I run across (thank you jeebus), they get how not to make my life harder, and so if they drop money or overpay me in a way that I'm pretty sure they thought they were handing me a twenty when in reality they were handing me a hundred dollar bill, I will hand the dropped money back to them, or clarify that they meant to tip me that much money. This has actually happened several times and typically earns me a tip even if it's not the original large amount.

Interesting thing though: way back when I was a little greenhorn stripper, I'd give assholes the benefit of the doubt, and I vaguely recall having the above type of situation occur. Instead of doing the asshole-tax (which I learned here), I was honest and gave it back to them. These assholes didn't appreciate the honesty enough to tip me.

Now this brings up a meandering philosophical debate about karma and not doing things for their reward, but I just wanted to put that out there that being honest with a non-asshole is typically rewarding, both to my soul and to my pocketbook. Being honest to an asshole may do something for my soul, but damn if I don't get annoyed later on that I had to earn my money "the hard way" by hanging out with such a inexcusable two-legged mutation of a crusty crab's anus.

Djoser
06-11-2013, 06:38 AM
^^Ha ha hell yes there is also an equivalent tax with pain in the ass dancers who lie to get out of stage or just don't show repeatedly, demand music the owner forbids then run crying to him trying to get you fired if you don't play it, etc., but always forget to tip you or always try to cheat you out of some.. Though I've only done it a few times.

BANHammerGoddess
06-11-2013, 06:42 AM
how do you tax them? Unless they're just really drunk and accidentally hand you a wad of money? Not judging-- sounds like they deserve it.

Djoser
06-11-2013, 09:36 AM
They will mix a big bill up in there sometimes. If there's a girl who never, EVER tips you more than minimum no matter how demanding or a pain in the ass she might be, and never gives you a big bill but always the wrinkled, sweat soaked, torn up singles--and suddenly there's a 10 or a 20 in there with the rest of the nine 1's, you know she made a mistake.

Tip you twice if they are very hammered sometimes--but that is a double edged sword, because they can also forget to tip when hammered; which is actually way, way more frequent, and another reason to tax them if they have shafted you this way before.

Tip you to go onstage next when they are next anyway-this isn't something I have done, in the last two clubs we had to stick pretty close to rotation. But I read about other DJs doing it a lot.

FasaCorp
06-25-2013, 04:43 PM
Man pops in pays over anyone there and when I mean tipping he tips a few thousand dollars. Hello there.. $20 or $40? lol Not going to shake my interest at all. The guy wants me to see him above the rest then he has to show me in a language I understand $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Stand out from the crowd if you want me to see you as such. I can't do that if you're paying the less or the same as everyone else.

Not really on topic here, but:
This is the number one reason why I will never do "crowd" cams: you have a camgirl who has multiple customers in her room, all trying to get her attention, and if a whale comes along, regardless of the money everyone else has already spent, they get left in the dirt. Actually I don't do cams in general because I feel it's a ripoff to pay basically the same per-minute rate as a lapdance (for the quality models), but all you get is an image on a computer monitor.
In a strip club, there are multiple dancers with multiple customers. What you describe happening in your room (I'm guessing MFC?) doesn't really happen in a physical location like a club. The only time I have experienced something remotely close to "dancer stealing?" happened a year ago and it was a female customer who tried to pull the dancer from me. Luckily this dancer had the good sense to politely tell her to wait her turn. People by and large tend to respect each others space and if a customer sees a dancer already dancing for another customer (especially in VIP), then they will wait their turn, regardless of how much money they are willing to spend, or they will find another dancer.
Okay, rant over :-)

Djoser
06-26-2013, 08:28 AM
^^^Most webcam is excruciatingly boring, even the rooms on MFC with hundreds of guys (most of whom are complete idiots). I'll go there sometimes to visit with models from the other webcam site I do admin work for, but I have to be in just the right mood and even then never stay long. I sometimes wonder how the hell the models can stand it. Obviously the top-ranked models are making enough money to make it worthwhile I suppose, but for most of the rest, I imagine it gets old real fast.

As far as 'dancer stealing', I've seen it tried fairly frequently in the clubs, but not nearly as often as I have seen the 'customer stealing' attempts.