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Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 01:01 PM
Oh sure people can stay attractive into their 50's but so many don't even bother trying anymore. The older actors/actresses know they have to so they do. In the real world though many don't and I see far more obese men with greying hair than in shape men. Oddly one area that I see far better looking women are those who are single in their 30's and up. Most of these women look good for their age and take care of themselves.

GlamourRouge
07-10-2013, 01:14 PM
I would never in a million years date any of the men in the pictures that have been posted in this thread.

As for George Clooney, I'm guessing many women would not date him either, for 2 reasons: 1.) chances are he has an ego, and 2.) she would already know it wouldn't last or he would cheat. I will take an interesting and creative guy ANY day over a man with model looks and/or a rich man. Any day.

Different women (and men) want different things.




"What if all women were bigger and stronger than you? And thought they were smarter? What if women were the ones who started wars? What if too many of your friends had been raped by women wielding giant dildos and no K-Y Jelly? What if the state trooper who pulled you over on the New Jersey Turnpike was a woman and carried a gun? What if the ability to menstruate was the prerequisite for most high-paying jobs? What if your attractiveness to women depended on the size of your penis? What if every time women saw you they’d hoot and make jerking motions with their hands? What if women were always making jokes about how ugly penises are and how bad sperm tastes? What if you had to explain what’s wrong with your car to big sweaty women with greasy hands who stared at your crotch in a garage where you are surrounded by posters of naked men with hard-ons? What if men’s magazines featured cover photos of 14-year-old boys with socks tucked into the front of their jeans and articles like: “How to tell if your wife is unfaithful” or “What your doctor won’t tell you about your prostate” or “The truth about impotence”? What if the doctor who examined your prostate was a woman and called you “Honey”? What if you had to inhale your boss’ stale cigar breath as she insisted that sleeping with her was part of the job? What if you couldn’t get away because the company dress code required you wear shoes designed to keep you from running? And what if after all that women still wanted you to love them?" - Carol Diehl

What's the point in focusing on things that will never be the case? I could fantasize all day about having 8 arms and living in a world where each day had 100 hours, but that's won't change reality. Women are physically beautiful creatures, and that will never change. I don't even know why people try to deny this, pretend it doesn't exist, or try to downplay it. It just simply is. You might as well use it to your advantage. Its powerful. Like the most powerful thing in the world. I'm grateful that I was born a woman.

Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 01:16 PM
I wouldn't date Clooney either because he has a rep for letting it be known it will only be dating and never anything more like marriage. He doesn't have a rep for cheating but not many women want to date a man for years with no chance of it going no further. Jim Caviezel is one most women here wouldn't want to date as he is very very conservative and religious.

Smurfette
07-10-2013, 01:29 PM
What's the point in focusing on things that will never be the case? I could fantasize all day about having 8 arms and living in a world where each day had 100 hours, but that's won't change reality. Women are physically beautiful creatures, and that will never change. I don't even know why people try to deny this, pretend it doesn't exist, or try to downplay it. It just simply is. You might as well use it to your advantage. Its powerful. Like the most powerful thing in the world. I'm grateful that I was born a woman.

It's to illustrate how women are unfairly treated in the world by framing it through a different perspective. If a man can read that quote and think, "Well that sounds miserable", then it becomes easier for him to understand what women go through. I'm not denying that women are physically beautiful creatures. So? I think everyone can agree that they are. But all too often it becomes ALL about beauty and nothing else, because it's all that women are valued for. I don't mind being objectified and showing off my beauty while I'm on webcam because that's the whole point and I get paid for it. But if I worked in a professional setting and wanted to be taken seriously, I wouldn't want my male co-workers gawking at my ass or tits, or making passes at me, or downplaying my contribution because I'm nothing to them but just another pretty face.

Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 01:37 PM
Speaking of the corporate world, I once had a male coworker tell me I should concentrate on finding a man because pretty women shouldn't be working. I was repulsed beyond belief with the fact that though I have a masters and experience men will still judging me on my looks. I expected it while dancing and modeling but not when in the corporate world. Let's not forget when I did online dating and got hundreds of messages such as "you're hot". For relationships most women I would hope want a man who wants her for her and not her looks.

GlamourRouge
07-10-2013, 02:03 PM
It's to illustrate how women are unfairly treated in the world by framing it through a different perspective. If a man can read that quote and think, "Well that sounds miserable", then it becomes easier for him to understand what women go through. I'm not denying that women are physically beautiful creatures. So? I think everyone can agree that they are. But all too often it becomes ALL about beauty and nothing else, because it's all that women are valued for. I don't mind being objectified and showing off my beauty while I'm on webcam because that's the whole point and I get paid for it. But if I worked in a professional setting and wanted to be taken seriously, I wouldn't want my male co-workers gawking at my ass or tits, or making passes at me, or downplaying my contribution because I'm nothing to them but just another pretty face.

Again, women have their pros and cons. As do men. I'm sure women feel shitty when they don't find themselves attractive. And I'm sure men feel shitty when they don't make enough money and aren't a looker. There is some overlap too of course. But also, different people prefer different things physically and otherwise in a mate. There is something for everyone.



I don't know why my sharing that quote seems to have struck such a nerve with you... The fact that you equate having 8 arms or 100 hours in a day being as far off as women enjoying the same rights as men is somewhat telling. I think the purpose of that quote is to simply play devil's advocate and get people thinking about how things would be if "normal" situations (realities that women face everyday), were put in reverse.

Lol I really don't care that much. I just think its pointless to try and change the facts, or think about the "what ifs" that will never ever be the case. The fact being that women are physically beautiful creatures and that will never change.

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 02:27 PM
"Once you’ve realized that you’re living in a world that believes women are “less than” in every imaginable way, one of the things that can be most frustrating is that very few men get it. You want the people in your life, the men you care about, to understand the awful toll it can take on you. Operating in a world that sees you as less than fully human can be soul crushing- but it’s also incredibly lonely. When you speak up about any sense of unfairness or injustice, you’re told that you’re overreacting, you’re too angry, too silly- shut up already. It takes a tremendous amount of fortitude to be able to live in this world as a woman, let alone a woman who wants things to change." - Kathleen Hanna

"What if all women were bigger and stronger than you? And thought they were smarter? What if women were the ones who started wars? What if too many of your friends had been raped by women wielding giant dildos and no K-Y Jelly? What if the state trooper who pulled you over on the New Jersey Turnpike was a woman and carried a gun? What if the ability to menstruate was the prerequisite for most high-paying jobs? What if your attractiveness to women depended on the size of your penis? What if every time women saw you they’d hoot and make jerking motions with their hands? What if women were always making jokes about how ugly penises are and how bad sperm tastes? What if you had to explain what’s wrong with your car to big sweaty women with greasy hands who stared at your crotch in a garage where you are surrounded by posters of naked men with hard-ons? What if men’s magazines featured cover photos of 14-year-old boys with socks tucked into the front of their jeans and articles like: “How to tell if your wife is unfaithful” or “What your doctor won’t tell you about your prostate” or “The truth about impotence”? What if the doctor who examined your prostate was a woman and called you “Honey”? What if you had to inhale your boss’ stale cigar breath as she insisted that sleeping with her was part of the job? What if you couldn’t get away because the company dress code required you wear shoes designed to keep you from running? And what if after all that women still wanted you to love them?" - Carol Diehl


Oh sure people can stay attractive into their 50's but so many don't even bother trying anymore. The older actors/actresses know they have to so they do. In the real world though many don't and I see far more obese men with greying hair than in shape men. Oddly one area that I see far better looking women are those who are single in their 30's and up. Most of these women look good for their age and take care of themselves.


I would never in a million years date any of the men in the pictures that have been posted in this thread.

As for George Clooney, I'm guessing many women would not date him either, for 2 reasons: 1.) chances are he has an ego, and 2.) she would already know it wouldn't last or he would cheat. I will take an interesting and creative guy ANY day over a man with model looks and/or a rich man. Any day.

Different women (and men) want different things.





What's the point in focusing on things that will never be the case? I could fantasize all day about having 8 arms and living in a world where each day had 100 hours, but that's won't change reality. Women are physically beautiful creatures, and that will never change. I don't even know why people try to deny this, pretend it doesn't exist, or try to downplay it. It just simply is. You might as well use it to your advantage. Its powerful. Like the most powerful thing in the world. I'm grateful that I was born a woman.


Speaking of the corporate world, I once had a male coworker tell me I should concentrate on finding a man because pretty women shouldn't be working. I was repulsed beyond belief with the fact that though I have a masters and experience men will still judging me on my looks. I expected it while dancing and modeling but not when in the corporate world. Let's not forget when I did online dating and got hundreds of messages such as "you're hot". For relationships most women I would hope want a man who wants her for her and not her looks.

Enchanted: Men will be men, women will be women. We have our gender roles and it comes down to how we treat each other. I dont think a woman can ever truly understand what its like in a man's shoes. And a man wont know what its truly like to be woman either. We can fathom and imagine...but its not the same. Since beauty is so emphasized on women from the media to the cosmetic industry...well its something they will have to shoot for if they care. If they dont care, more power to them for not letting life shape them into something they are not or dont want to be. Its agreed women look better naked than men...I guess its our dong sticking out that gives a "funny" look. But then again a woman's mounds of breast could look "funny" too but its not seen that way. Women are beautiful (not all though...no amount of make up and surgery can fix hopeless ugly) Same for men. It just seems like there is a universal statement going on that all women are beautiful....there a lot of of beauties not all. Thats like saying men are handsome...not all.

And there is beauty to be seen on both sides, the soft and sensual curves of a woman...or the well defined and chiseled structure of a man. Masculine complements the feminine, and vice versa.

And I wouldnt mind girls acting a bit more like guys if they hooted and hollered at me...but then again maybe I feel more secure because with that going on...I am no scared or thinking about them raping me. If they are hot though and they spank my ass or grab my arm I won't mind...must be a guy thing. Ok I speak for myself...its my thing.

Kelly: Yeah it could be our areas of living. Some areas have the I dont give a fuck types while other areas are full of the vain and appearance conscious. I go running everyday on the trail and see good looking young and old people. I seen some 50 year old dudes (I asked em about their age and any tips they have to keeping in shape) and they have full head of hair...granted its salt & pepper but it looks good, nice face, good body, all good. I also seen 50+ women with excellent skin and their bodies are maintained too...just like the men. Even more so when I was in L.A. for vacation...and these are people out on the street/restaurants/stores/etc.

Glamour: Different stokes for different folks...and beauty is subjective. Its in the eye of the beholder...though we have standards for what many would agree is the basis for what looks good.

Kelly: That man is nuts. Pretty women should be working, or not working. Hell they can do as they please as long as they aint hurting nobody/breaking the law. In the corporate world, its not about glamour its about business, tactics, strategy, skill, etc. We aint doing a photo shoot we are generating sales and going for the profits...your looks is the last thing on my mind. As long as you are presentable and not an eye sore...you will be just fine in the company. I will be looking at your credentials and track record...thats what matters. You wanna be a dancer in the club...well you gotta have the looks and be a producer/salesperson because your selling the fantasy, What I am getting at is there is a place for looks and their is place for intelligence. And there are places that need both.

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 02:34 PM
Again, women have their pros and cons. As do men. I'm sure women feel shitty when they don't find themselves attractive. And I'm sure men feel shitty when they don't make enough money and aren't a looker. There is some overlap too of course. But also, different people prefer different things physically and otherwise in a mate. There is something for everyone.




Lol I really don't care that much. I just think its pointless to try and change the facts, or think about the "what ifs" that will never ever be the case. The fact being that women are physically beautiful creatures and that will never change.

^I agree.

And height emphasis is a big deal for guys...for someone like me at 5'8" its what it is. Tom Cruise and Mark Walhberg are my height but they manage to do well..but everything changes when you are a celebrity and or rich and famous. Look at Lil Wayne...that dude is ugly as hell/has no talent but he gets all the girls...its easy to see why though...hes Lil Wayne. He does a cold approach/direct game on girls at the mall/supermarket/anywhere and he will do well. I try that and I would get some numbers for sure (gaming 10 women...I am confident I will get at least one lol). But it aint the same. Now if I was 6'1" I would have more presence...I would stand out more and women will notice. I know its personality that counts but lets be real here...good looks gets the girl...personality keeps the girl. So without having the good looks (I dont consider myself ugly though, average at the least), its tougher. No excuses though as I have seen average to straight up ugly dudes with smoking hot chicks. Although on the flip side...I never seen a hot ass dude with an ugly to average chick. Every good looking dude I seen has a girl of equivalent hotness or more. I do think men are more shallow in that sense. Myself included.

Guys are expected to be tall I would say at least 5'10" but what seems idea for most women is around 6'1" to 6'4". Well when you get the shorter end of the stick..you take it like a man and work on improving what else you can.

Women can be short...its okay. They can still be desirable and look good...it can even be cute/petite. Short men is not a good look...its looks not masculine and weak. Like we have bad genes and wont produce good offspring. Height is important to women...survey after survey shows women care a lot about a man's height.

So in the height department, women win.

But as stated and will be stated again...both sides have their pros and cons.

Male or female...life is a struggle in one way or another.

And its not the 1960s anymore...things have significantly changed and will continue to change.
Women are in more power now than they ever were and eventually it will all equalize. (I believe)

Smurfette
07-10-2013, 03:12 PM
Speaking of the corporate world, I once had a male coworker tell me I should concentrate on finding a man because pretty women shouldn't be working. I was repulsed beyond belief with the fact that though I have a masters and experience men will still judging me on my looks. I expected it while dancing and modeling but not when in the corporate world. Let's not forget when I did online dating and got hundreds of messages such as "you're hot". For relationships most women I would hope want a man who wants her for her and not her looks.

That's horrible! And exactly what was talking about. I'd be so pissed off if a guy said that to me. One time a female co-worker of mine said that she doesn't believe women should be allowed to run for president. Her reasoning was that women get PMS and act over-emotional and hysterical, and therefore aren't fit to make real leadership decisions. Hilarious considering men are driven by testosterone and have an aggressive, competitive nature (at least stereotypically). I'm sure there would be far less wars if the world was led by women (maybe).


The fact being that women are physically beautiful creatures and that will never change.

But men are physically beautiful too? I dunno, I personally think BOTH sexes are equally beautiful in different ways. I find a handsome, well-built guy to be just as aesthetically pleasing as a beautiful woman. I don't think guys look worse than women naked either, if they take care of their bodies. The Greeks totally fetishized the male body and for good reason. They were definitely on to something there. :P

Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 03:31 PM
That's horrible! And exactly what was talking about. I'd be so pissed off if a guy said that to me. One time a female co-worker of mine said that she doesn't believe women should be allowed to run for president. Her reasoning was that women get PMS and act over-emotional and hysterical, and therefore aren't fit to make real leadership decisions. Hilarious considering men are driven by testosterone and have an aggressive, competitive nature (at least stereotypically). I'm sure there would be far less wars if the world was led by women (maybe).

Sadly, I dealt with a lot of comments like that in the corporate world, from the idea that women were taking jobs away from men to that women shouldn't be working and more. I found out a male coworker was hired the same time as me with less experience and education and yet was promoted 3 times when I was promoted zero times. I asked the HR person this and he said "you wouldn't like his job he has to go out at night". The thing is they never asked me if I would like his job and never gave me an option for his job. A black woman hired the same time as him for the exact same job had more education and experience (she had a MBA and he was a recent grad)found out she was paid less, got mad and quit. This was at a railroad and the mentality of the older men was extremely sexist. There was a woman who was number 4 in command and she had been there 30 years and was repeatedly rejected for CEO for a white male. I once reported several upper management men for saying women should be housewives like "God intended". I hated this job.

Renton
07-10-2013, 03:40 PM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your first statement, of course I know that there are fundamental differences that make men inherently men and women inherently women. I'd like to take the time to point out that we have our gender roles as a product of being conditioned to have them, which does not necessarily mean that they are right or natural, just that they are just expected and that's that. They are artificially determined by our society, if you looked at other cultures, you will find places where women are the breadwinners, the hunters, etc. and other vast differences when it comes to gender roles.

Of course a woman can't ever truly understand what it's like to be in a man's shoes or vice versa but it should be known that the quote I used was to illustrate just a glimpse into the reality that most women have faced/do face in today's society. There is a standard when it comes to what society thinks an attractive woman should look like and that weighs heavily on mostly women. Look at the ads on tv, the models on the runways, the airbrushed photos in the magazines... pressure from the media is not something that can be easily ignored when it's coming at you from every direction. The parameters when it comes to beauty for women are a lot more rigid compared to men. I think that a woman's beauty is a double edged sword.

I'm not quite sure where you're getting that it's agreed that women look better naked than men (I for one would beg to differ)... Also, I don't find men's penises "funny" or women's breasts to be "funny" either? As far as you stating that women are beautful, I'm not going to argue with that, however I do find men to be beautiful too. You're not going to find every woman beautiful just like I'm not going to find every man handsome, and that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion when it comes to looks but I think the point that Dustin Hoffman was making (and that I'm trying to make), is that women are the ones who bear the brunt of the pressure when it comes to looking beautiful-- and the implications of that when it comes to the way we live our lives.

Just for the record, whenever guys hoot and hollar at me I find it extremely offensive and disrespectful. It happens when I'm just walking down the street and passing a complete stranger, he feels entitled to say something and I don't even have the chance to voice my disgust or object. I fully support that everyone's entitled to their own opinion, the part that bugs me is that some men feel like they are entitled to voice theirs and weigh in when it comes to my body-- all of this without me ever even acknowledging them. Just because I'm a woman does not mean I am open to the public to be oogled at (unless I'm at work, lol). Hooting and hollaring is not endearing or flattering, it's just fucking plain rude and unwanted and makes me feel violated afterwards. I would never dream of going up to a complete stranger and voicing my opinion on their physical appearance. I don't understand why you would ever welcome this type of behavior.

You just said everything I was thinking but couldn't put into words because I get so irritated by these issues. Where is that gif of the woman clapping when you need it...

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 04:27 PM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your first statement, of course I know that there are fundamental differences that make men inherently men and women inherently women. I'd like to take the time to point out that we have our gender roles as a product of being conditioned to have them, which does not necessarily mean that they are right or natural, just that they are just expected and that's that. They are artificially determined by our society, if you looked at other cultures, you will find places where women are the breadwinners, the hunters, etc. and other vast differences when it comes to gender roles.

Of course a woman can't ever truly understand what it's like to be in a man's shoes or vice versa but it should be known that the quote I used was to illustrate just a glimpse into the reality that most women have faced/do face in today's society. There is a standard when it comes to what society thinks an attractive woman should look like and that weighs heavily on mostly women. Look at the ads on tv, the models on the runways, the airbrushed photos in the magazines... pressure from the media is not something that can be easily ignored when it's coming at you from every direction. The parameters when it comes to beauty for women are a lot more rigid compared to men. I think that a woman's beauty is a double edged sword.

I'm not quite sure where you're getting that it's agreed that women look better naked than men (I for one would beg to differ)... Also, I don't find men's penises "funny" or women's breasts to be "funny" either? As far as you stating that women are beautful, I'm not going to argue with that, however I do find men to be beautiful too. You're not going to find every woman beautiful just like I'm not going to find every man handsome, and that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion when it comes to looks but I think the point that Dustin Hoffman was making (and that I'm trying to make), is that women are the ones who bear the brunt of the pressure when it comes to looking beautiful-- and the implications of that when it comes to the way we live our lives.

Just for the record, whenever guys hoot and hollar at me I find it extremely offensive and disrespectful. It happens when I'm just walking down the street and passing a complete stranger, he feels entitled to say something and I don't even have the chance to voice my disgust or object. I fully support that everyone's entitled to their own opinion, the part that bugs me is that some men feel like they are entitled to voice theirs and weigh in when it comes to my body-- all of this without me ever even acknowledging them. Just because I'm a woman does not mean I am open to the public to be oogled at (unless I'm at work, lol). Hooting and hollaring is not endearing or flattering, it's just fucking plain rude and unwanted and makes me feel violated afterwards. I would never dream of going up to a complete stranger and voicing my opinion on their physical appearance. I don't understand why you would ever welcome this type of behavior.

"women are the ones who bear the brunt of the pressure when it comes to looking beautiful-- and the implications of that when it comes to the way we live our lives."

^ I believe and agree with that. I mean if the case was the same for men we would be wearing make up as well (to shape and contour our face to emphasize masculine qualities, strong jawline, high cheekbones or prominent cheekbones, nose, etc.) But yeah a lot of the pressure rides on women, not as much on men.

As for society/gender roles...I wouldn't say its artificial. It just depends on where one lives. There is no right or wrong to who should be you bread winner. Not saying you are saying that, I am just saying that. I mean if here in America men are seen/viewed as the bread winners and providers well thats here. In another country women are the providers and the head of household...that's there.

But what I feel is if a guy is handsome (I am talking model status) then he can and will be able to seduce as well. No different than a woman, and he has the potential to be in a high leadership/management position much each easier because there is a lot of sexism/gender preference going on. His face is chiseled, body is amazing...he can do as much damage for good or bad as a woman can. Fact is the playing fields are leveled if you take two attractive people from either gender.

http://thefitnesschronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/lars-burmeister-male-model-09202010-33-820x1097.jpg
http://loadpaper.com/large/Models+Female_wallpapers_250.jpg

And as for the hollering, most guys will like it if the chick is attractive. Just like more girls will be open to attractive guys picking up on them. I know these are two different things but okay lets say an attractive guys seductively eyes a girl...he just looks at her and stops at that. No cat calling, no following, no persistence or other creepy behavior. She will most likely be open to it and like it...now if he is average or ugly she is either repulsed, creeped out, or indifferent to his glance/stare of passion.

Or also its a double standard, a guy tells a girl she nice boobs and thats crossing line/rude/inappropriate. A girl tells a guy he has a nice chest/body/arms its okay to do so and not perverted. Thats how it would look to society/everyone. Dude complements a body part and its creepy/perverted/wrong. A girl does it and its exactly that, a compliment.

I do know welcoming that behavior means being okay with harassment/assualt (when I said I wouldn't mind a hot girl grabbing my ass) but hey if I consent to it then its fine with me. I dunno if my way of thinking is just messed up but I do know other guys who I asked would love it if a girl whistled at them or touched them....granted she was hot. If she was not hot...then no way jose...do not want.

If I was a model type, every time I went running I would be without a shirt. Id be out there showing off my body and if the cars honk and girls be hollering/hooting/saying compliments...I am down with that. I think it comes down to security since us guys are much less likely to get assaulted/raped. So those gestures/comments/actions are not seen as a threat...its a compliment. I can see where girls would get uneasy in the same situation. I have never honked/hooted/hollered at girl...I know that is not a way to get the girls attention. Its just rude/disrespectful and looks bad. It might work on some youngins/hood rats/gangsta girls who are used to that way of interaction though.

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 05:00 PM
^
Whether or not the guy is attractive or not has no bearing on the way I take his cat calling. I don't even take that into consideration, just because someone's attractive that doesnt give him a free pass to be an asshole. I also don't tell a complete stranger he has a nice chest/body/arms/whatever. That's something I'm not comfortable telling a stranger, it just crosses a boundary with me. And as far as you being okay with a girl whistling at you as long as she's hot, gee, how kind of you...

Nobody gets a pass to be an asshole, regardless of looks and social status. I didnt say a hot guy was cat calling a girl...I said he was using his eyes in that seductive way that some woman use when they know they have the looks to pull it off. Its merely looking with interest, admiration, and seduction. Kinda like "Yeah I am confident, yes I am looking at you. You got my attention. etc"

I have complemented complete strangers before on their bodies (this was at the gym) and they havent took it the wrong way. I think it comes down to matter of how it is said/voiced/shown and how the person saying it looks. Maybe if I was old man with the pedophile glasses then it would be creepy but looking like some mid 20s Asian dude who is also there to work out...its taken well. Its an ego booster and these people in the gym work hard for their bodies, I am sure it makes or helps their day. I wouldnt say this to a girl in the grocery store....it wouldn't seem like the appropriate place.

And attractiveness makes a night and day difference with how people perceive one and his/her actions. An old man who looks a certain way (pedo, creeper, serial killer...even though he may be a kind man who is truly an angel) simply smiles at a woman and its threatening/creepy. A young stud does it...its flattering. I am talking about just smiling here...no cat calling, no comments, nada. A lady who is older and looks like a witch smiles at a guy...its not so pleasant. If she is a cub (young girl) or cougar its fine. We judge based on appearances...is it right? Nope, but we do it. Not all of us but c'mon its human nature...to deny that is not being true. While there is good in us, we are selfish and shallow. Judgmental and opinionated.

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 05:08 PM
I'm just gonna bow out now, I've said what I wanted to say. Thanks for engaging me but I'm going to have to agree to disagree...

Agreed.
To each his and her own.

michele11
07-10-2013, 05:16 PM
I wouldn't date Clooney either because he has a rep for letting it be known it will only be dating and never anything more like marriage. He doesn't have a rep for cheating but not many women want to date a man for years with no chance of it going no further. Jim Caviezel is one most women here wouldn't want to date as he is very very conservative and religious.

Clooney is not attractive imo ( I had a customer years ago who looked just like him) I'm also convinced he's gay. I really wish he'g give up this propaganda , dating these young model types. You can tell in all the pics and the body language they are not dating.

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 05:34 PM
Clooney is not attractive imo ( I had a customer years ago who looked just like him) I'm also convinced he's gay. I really wish he'g give up this propaganda , dating these young model types. You can tell in all the pics and the body language they are not dating.

Just wondering, what makes you think hes gay?

michele11
07-10-2013, 05:42 PM
^ I'm not the only one! I just do. My moms in love with him and she thinks he is too! I thought this even before I saw pics of him and a few of the supposed females he dated. They look lost , like their faking. The body language. Look at some pics of him and the women he's supposedly dated...

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 05:52 PM
^ I'm not the only one! I just do. My moms in love with him and she thinks he is too! I thought this even before I saw pics of him and a few of the supposed females he dated. They look lost , like their faking. The body language. Look at some pics of him and the women he's supposedly dated...

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/george-clooney-stacy-keibler-argo-premiere-10-4-12-wenn-brian-to__oPt.jpg

^Hmmm I dunno lol...things arent always what they seem.

LaurenAus
07-10-2013, 05:54 PM
I've spoken to someone whose bumped into him on numerous occasions at charity functions and he said he knows without a doubt George is gay

cherryblossomsinspring
07-10-2013, 06:01 PM
http://humanitum.com/images/clint-eastwood.jpg
He still looks good to me...old man but yeah its cool hes "distinct" and has lived.
And this is coming from a dude who is super scared of old age/vain/geresphobic(sp?)

http://i2.listal.com/image/4128366/600full-clint-eastwood.jpg
In his younger days

My point is if this was woman...its viewed completely differently.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Entertainment/gty_sharon_stone_dm_130312_ms.jpg
^Still good but not like before. Shes just not that sexy young thing anymore.

http://hollywooddame.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Sharon-Stone.jpg
^Maximum power...Hot babe off the scale.

wtf?? Clint Eastwood looks good?? In the dark maybe. He's fucking scary in that picture. Using celebrities is a bad example because they pay people to keep up. There are still many that look like hell warmed over due to booze, drugs and just poor habits.
As you've said in the past an Asian , Latin or African American celebrity will look far better for a long time because of their genetic make up. Their skin allows for them to look young far into their 50's + They tend to look 20-30 years younger.

Even so most Caucasian celebrities use plastic surgery and fillers to slow the hands of time. It's the sun really that isn't too kind to them.

Still our society minus the celebrities is actually grown bigger in the last 20 years. The dress size of the average american woman is 14 or I think it's 16 now. The average pants size for an american man is 44 ( What I find funny is that it was harder to find a man's pants size but for women it seems to be the only thing search engines post". I had to actually dig for men. Typical of how society is always focused on women in the looks department.

michele11
07-10-2013, 06:03 PM
http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/george-clooney-stacy-keibler-argo-premiere-10-4-12-wenn-brian-to__oPt.jpg

^Hmmm I dunno lol...things arent always what they seem.

Hahaha! Yes and they, supposedly broke up a few weeks ago....

cherryblossomsinspring
07-10-2013, 06:08 PM
Umm It may be me but I have never viewed Clooney as a hearthrob. He's always come off as low self worth or low self esteem. I just didn't buy into the hotness. My mother thinks he's handsome but I just don't see it. It's just as bad as Nicolas Cage. I can never for the life of me see why people think he's attractive. That guy has always looked like hell. Even in his younger pictures not attractive. The point is our society hypes up people and cheers their name and I often feel like I'm the only one in the crowd saying " He's not wearing any clothes".

Try Brad Pitt. That's one man that has been hot and will be hot forever!!

michele11
07-10-2013, 06:08 PM
^ That older pic of Sharon doesn't even look like hoe she looks. She looks way better than that and not far off from her older pic( in basic instinct) I don't even remember her hair that long in years...and yes clint eastwood looks wonderful. Lol.

cherryblossomsinspring
07-10-2013, 06:14 PM
Some of these posts are honestly kind of shocking to me. I'm happy to be a woman, but we definitely don't have it easier than men. The entire world is set up to be hostile towards us.

Let me put it this way... imagine a world where women rule. Women make up almost ALL of the world leaders, presidents, politicians, religious leaders, etc. Councils of women get together to talk about men's reproductive health and pass laws about it, while actual men have no say. In creation myths, women were made first and designated as most important, with men created second to be their "helpers". Men are forbidden from gaining religious leadership. History books contain phrases like, "In all of womankind". Men get paid less for the same work, and have a hard time getting taken seriously in the workplace, where they face discrimination and sexual harassment. If they choose to focus on their career, they are considered less of a man, or called a bad father. If they enjoy sex they're called derogatory names, while women are applauded for doing the same thing. Even if a man is really intelligent, funny, and/or accomplishes a lot and makes a difference in the world, women will still look at him and judge him based on his looks alone. A man can be completely physically overpowered by almost any woman, and rape by dildo is very common so they must always watch their backs, and keep an eye on their drinks at parties.

I could go on and on. Sounds like an incredibly shitty and unfair world for men, huh?

Thank you!!!

Also men and women get the same sick time and sick days on jobs. There were days were I litterally bled through a chair so I didn't get written up! But ooh noosss unfair to men?? Bullshit!!

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 06:30 PM
I've spoken to someone whose bumped into him on numerous occasions at charity functions and he said he knows without a doubt George is gay


wtf?? Clint Eastwood looks good?? In the dark maybe. He's fucking scary in that picture. Using celebrities is a bad example because they pay people to keep up. There are still many that look like hell warmed over due to booze, drugs and just poor habits.
As you've said in the past an Asian , Latin or African American celebrity will look far better for a long time because of their genetic make up. Their skin allows for them to look young far into their 50's + They tend to look 20-30 years younger.

Even so most Caucasian celebrities use plastic surgery and fillers to slow the hands of time. It's the sun really that isn't too kind to them.

Still our society minus the celebrities is actually grown bigger in the last 20 years. The dress size of the average american woman is 14 or I think it's 16 now. The average pants size for an american man is 44 ( What I find funny is that it was harder to find a man's pants size but for women it seems to be the only thing search engines post". I had to actually dig for men. Typical of how society is always focused on women in the looks department.


Hahaha! Yes and they, supposedly broke up a few weeks ago....


Umm It may be me but I have never viewed Clooney as a hearthrob. He's always come off as low self worth or low self esteem. I just didn't buy into the hotness. My mother thinks he's handsome but I just don't see it. It's just as bad as Nicolas Cage. I can never for the life of me see why people think he's attractive. That guy has always looked like hell. Even in his younger pictures not attractive. The point is our society hypes up people and cheers their name and I often feel like I'm the only one in the crowd saying " He's not wearing any clothes".

Try Brad Pitt. That's one man that has been hot and will be hot forever!!

Lauren: Maybe he is bisexual? He can swing both ways perhaps.

cherry: Okay looking at him now...its not so good. People can look good to a certain age...after that they can look good for their age but thats that. True, and I know from my own experience because my mom is 54 but people think she is 40-45. And my sister being in her 40s can past for late 20s/early 30s. My brother in his mid 30s can pass for mid to late 20s. And me at 26, people think I am 20-21.

The sun is really damaging...its just white skin takes it the hardest. Which is what a lot of Asians like. Just like how some white people like to tan. We want what we dont have. I like both skin colors but I like being tan.

michele: That sucks, she has some nice legs but if it wasnt meant to be then. I always thought Tom Cruise and Katie Homes had some fishy business going on...like Tom brainwashed her with scientology. Not sure though as I dont follow celebrity gossip...I just catch Entertainment Tonight and Extra around dinner time.

cherry: Brad Pitt looks good, Cage eh not a fan. I think Leonardo Dicaprio looks good too and will into his old age.

Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 07:10 PM
^
Whether or not the guy is attractive or not has no bearing on the way I take his cat calling. I don't even take that into consideration, just because someone's attractive that doesnt give him a free pass to be an asshole. I also don't tell a complete stranger he has a nice chest/body/arms/whatever. That's something I'm not comfortable telling a stranger, it just crosses a boundary with me. And as far as you being okay with a girl whistling at you as long as she's hot, gee, how kind of you...

Yep. I HATE when random strange men come up to me and say things like "nice boobs". I don't care if he is hot or ugly I feel my space is invaded. Like many I have had many guys think it was cool to say sexual things to me when I was just walking or at places. I get at strip clubs this will happen but feel like a piece of meat at other places.

Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 07:13 PM
Clooney is not attractive imo ( I had a customer years ago who looked just like him) I'm also convinced he's gay. I really wish he'g give up this propaganda , dating these young model types. You can tell in all the pics and the body language they are not dating.

I have heard the gay stories as well and have heard he's not actually dating these women.

Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 07:16 PM
Thank you!!!

Also men and women get the same sick time and sick days on jobs. There were days were I litterally bled through a chair so I didn't get written up! But ooh noosss unfair to men?? Bullshit!!

Years ago I had cervical surgery and (TMI)a very long heavy period. I took a week off but the second week I was still bleeding but didn't want to take unpaid time off so I went back. I had to take it very easy and it was an office job but if it was a job that involved heavy lifting I would have taken off longer unpaid.

cherryblossomsinspring
07-10-2013, 09:44 PM
^ Some asshole supervisor actually tried to compare my " off the phone time" with some guy's and said " see he takes fewer breaks than you. I thought hmmm does he bleed? Seriously they switched out 3 chairs for me because of this situation. Also I was always wearing some hoodie around my waist just in case. If I caught the flu in that year I was screwed. I obviously didn't catch it from going to the supermarket or touching something. I caught it at work and yet I had to fight through because I couldn't afford any more time off. Time off = written up. More time off = FIRED!

I remember one girl was so afraid of being fired she actually threw up in the trash next to her desk. I was like wow really?? They sent her home "no pay but manager discretion" becaiuse no one wanted to work around her getting sick.

Most big companies have 40 hours sick time 7 personal days and vacation is accrued over the course of time worked.

So you can take 5 days off a year for being sick. Personal days had to be prescheduled along with vacation time. It's not like you can call in and say " eh I'm taking a vacation day see you tomorrow!!"

Now go to a place like I believe Argentina and they have "woman's day" for woman that need a day off for menstruation. It's actually part of the law but here in the states we're still behind the times. I'm still annoyed with "viagra being covered" yet I still have to pay for maxi pads?? I mean those aren't cheap either. Ohh and even though your shirt is a size 2 and his is a size 30 we're also going to charge you more to dry clean something 1/4 the size. Yah for women!! pfft!

Renton
07-10-2013, 09:57 PM
^Some guy I know once said on a forum that women shouldn't complain about higher prices for the same things, because according to him, women get a lot of stuff done for free because of their looks and charm. Now that guy has some issues and a huge superiority complex so everyone who knows him was like "he's totally lost it now", but fuck! I'd like to know how to get stuff for free just by existing, that'd be sweet.

BlackSheEp3
07-10-2013, 10:29 PM
Yep. I HATE when random strange men come up to me and say things like "nice boobs". I don't care if he is hot or ugly I feel my space is invaded. Like many I have had many guys think it was cool to say sexual things to me when I was just walking or at places. I get at strip clubs this will happen but feel like a piece of meat at other places.

Today at Peets Coffee & Tea there was this dude standing in line behind me. I swear I could feel this mofo breathing down my neck. He was standing way to close. Everytime I moved forward he did too..so I said "Yo, give me some space." He flashed me a creepy smile and I suddenly felt yucky inside.

Now if that was a hot girl...stand as close as you want sweet thing. I think its different for most of us guys...we dont mind being treated like a piece of meat and or being used for sex. We get to enjoy ourselves and not deal with any drama, its just for the fuck faces. Sure if we want a serious relationship its gotta be more than that but I would love it if everywhere I went I got a cat call or a comment. It feels good, boosts the ego, win/win.
And if an attractive girl was coming on to me very strong and persistent...well I will just have to give in and get down with the get down.

"The old saying goes that women are fickle, and even as a woman, I don't necessarily disagree.

......

A woman could be fickle about a guy "treating her like a piece of meat" for hundreds of different reasons. The exact same guy could treat her in the exact same way two days in a row, and one day she'll respond positively and the next she'll be annoyed." -verhrzn

"Does "no" really mean "no"?

Of course it does, and an attractive creep is just as creepy as an unattractive creep. If a hot girl walked up to a guy and offered to have sex with him, he would feel flattered. If a hot guy walked up to a girl and offered to have sex with her, she would feel threatened. Do you see the difference?

A man looking at a woman like a piece of meat is offensive, but it's also frightening. Whether he's attractive or not makes no difference. If a man looks at me that way, it makes me afraid and I would start looking for the nearest exit. Men don't experience that fear in their interactions with women." -Cypress25

^I agree with that...so its different for men than it is for women. Simple as that.

Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 10:36 PM
^ Some asshole supervisor actually tried to compare my " off the phone time" with some guy's and said " see he takes fewer breaks than you. I thought hmmm does he bleed? Seriously they switched out 3 chairs for me because of this situation. Also I was always wearing some hoodie around my waist just in case. If I caught the flu in that year I was screwed. I obviously didn't catch it from going to the supermarket or touching something. I caught it at work and yet I had to fight through because I couldn't afford any more time off. Time off = written up. More time off = FIRED!

I remember one girl was so afraid of being fired she actually threw up in the trash next to her desk. I was like wow really?? They sent her home "no pay but manager discretion" becaiuse no one wanted to work around her getting sick.

Most big companies have 40 hours sick time 7 personal days and vacation is accrued over the course of time worked.

So you can take 5 days off a year for being sick. Personal days had to be prescheduled along with vacation time. It's not like you can call in and say " eh I'm taking a vacation day see you tomorrow!!"

Now go to a place like I believe Argentina and they have "woman's day" for woman that need a day off for menstruation. It's actually part of the law but here in the states we're still behind the times. I'm still annoyed with "viagra being covered" yet I still have to pay for maxi pads?? I mean those aren't cheap either. Ohh and even though your shirt is a size 2 and his is a size 30 we're also going to charge you more to dry clean something 1/4 the size. Yah for women!! pfft!

What pisses me off about many men is they don't get it about periods. I have had brutal periods where the first day I could barely walk. I still get bad cramps the first day but am able to control them more. I know several women who have had worse ones than me by far.

Another thing that irritates me is when hair salons charge more to women even when the woman has shorter hair. My hair salon doesn't do that at all but so many do. I remember going to one of those cheap salons that are a chain and seeing them charge more to trim a woman's short hair than to cut a guy with long hair. That is discrimination. Also, products aimed at women are usually more money. I tend to buy "male" razors and things like that because they are cheaper. I don't wear jeans but my mom buys men's jeans because they are cheaper.

simone87
07-10-2013, 11:12 PM
wow this took off ..how did this become a disucssion on celeb's looks? hahaha

GlamourRouge
07-10-2013, 11:19 PM
Well then that's your prerogative and that's fine. I'm just glad that there are people out there who refuse to accept the reality they live in and work toward change. Thank God other women gave some thought to the "what ifs" when it came to women's suffrage, women in the workplace, equal rights amendment, and now abortion rights...

Again, there has already been a fuckton of change in the last 50 years, and its only increase. But change can only happen so fast. You can't expect so much so fast.

I guess you enjoy implying that people said things they didn't. Change is good, and it will always happen (another harsh reality for many people to stomach), but again, it does not happen over night. All of those things you listed just happened in the last 100 years or so, with most change happening in the last 50 years. That is a MASSIVE amount of change given how many years humans have supposedly been on the planet.



But men are physically beautiful too? I dunno, I personally think BOTH sexes are equally beautiful in different ways. I find a handsome, well-built guy to be just as aesthetically pleasing as a beautiful woman. I don't think guys look worse than women naked either, if they take care of their bodies. The Greeks totally fetishized the male body and for good reason. They were definitely on to something there. :P

They can be, but its extremely rare. For every beautiful man, there are like 500 beautiful women.

Kellydancer
07-10-2013, 11:31 PM
wow this took off ..how did this become a disucssion on celeb's looks? hahaha

Yeah that's weird. Not to mention we all know we can't compare a celeb to an average person because they have money to fix problems plus photos can be airbrushed.

Anyway sometimes being a woman can be hard and I think some men are making light of the fact we generally hate random men saying disgusting things to us. I hate when men judge women on looks only. We expect it in the clubs but not anywhere else.

BlackSheEp3
07-11-2013, 12:18 PM
Again, there has already been a fuckton of change in the last 50 years, and its only increase. But change can only happen so fast. You can't expect so much so fast.

I guess you enjoy implying that people said things they didn't. Change is good, and it will always happen (another harsh reality for many people to stomach), but again, it does not happen over night. All of those things you listed just happened in the last 100 years or so, with most change happening in the last 50 years. That is a MASSIVE amount of change given how many years humans have supposedly been on the planet.




They can be, but its extremely rare. For every beautiful man, there are like 500 beautiful women.

http://viakorea.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/makeup-vs-no-makeup-12-560x415.jpg
http://thebeautystop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/123.jpg
Do you mean as in "make up"/enhance beauty or natural beauty?
I think of a woman being truly beautiful if she looks good without make up.

I guess if average to ugly men started wearing make up we could look good too. Women have the advantage of upping their looks with the aid of make up...men can use it too but its not that accepted yet. Only time men wear make up is for movies/sitcoms/theatrical stuff...every day straight males dont use the stuff but it could help our looks.