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View Full Version : 6 Reasons Men are Opting Out of Marriage, Education, and Work !



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Incantatious
07-14-2013, 01:06 PM
I saw the title and was fully expecting to hate the video, but I actually completely agree with her.

I'm not the slightest bit bitter about it though... If anything, it suits my lifestyle. My partner and I are planning on purchasing 2 houses right next to each other so we will have a house each (like Tim Burton and his wife!), we aren't planning to have children, and even though we've been together for 5 years+ and are living together, we aren't planning engagement or marriage.

None of this compromises our love; he feels like my best friend and I love it that way. :)

Starling
07-14-2013, 02:11 PM
Its possible. More than possible. Most men I meet in their 20s (and many in their 30s!) fall into the categories below. They don't have much money, but they always have enough to make it. Here's how:

- Live with parents
- Live off parents (parents pay rent+bills or even trustfund)
- "Starving artist" lifestyle (living with lots of people in a small house or apartment, spending very little money, being frugal)
- Doing odd jobs to make a living, or being a freelancer here & there; Bartering; Buying things and reselling them for profit




I don't really think you NEED a lot of money just to make it. Especially if you live somewhere where the cost of living is cheap. You don't NEED electronics, expensive phone plans, eating out, brand new clothes, etc.

This is quite true. One of my friends comes to mind...he is 24 or 25 and lives with his parents, doesn't go to school anymore, doesn't have a degree or any training, and until recently didn't have a job, but he did manage to land a job at a grocery store. He confided to me that he felt depressed about his situation and was thinking about all of his options. And he wasn't the only one I noticed.

I recently went back to my hometown to visit. It's a somewhat small suburb and you can walk around the town and see a lot of familiar faces. I eventually noticed this phenomenon of people my age (mid twenties or later) who are still kind of doing the same old thing since we graduated from high school. They may have tried out community college and end up going there for five years, and not get a degree, or work as a waiter since graduating high school, and most still living with their parents. I did notice a lot of them were male. After seeing these guys, I kept wondering what they were thinking. If they had any plans at all.

Also about getting degrees. I've posted it before in another thread, but here it is:

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/20/college-grads-community-college/

Because if there are no guaranteed jobs with a bachelors or maybe even associates, a lot of people probably figure what the point is to spend so much money and time on a degree that won't help them?

I have a few friends who graduated as RNs but are having difficulty finding work because most places now want RNs with a couple of years experience. Their families find it incredulous that they are not able to find a job since health care is supposed to be in demand and the ones who did find work are mostly working part time in home health with little or no benefits. I also have another friend who graduated with a bachelor in accounting. It's been over a year now and he hasn't been able to find a single accounting job. To survive he works as a security guard and recently moved back in with his father to pay cheaper rent. Whenever I go out with my group of friends and see him, he sometimes says that he regrets having gotten the degree at all.

Kellydancer
07-14-2013, 03:05 PM
^^
Regarding the degree issue, I know a lot of people with degrees who have been unemployed for YEARS. I am not talking worthless degrees like women's studies or art history, I'm talking education or science or teaching (lots of teachers). I know of someone who graduated with an art degree and $100,000 in debt who is working at a store and someone with a Ph.D in some science field like biochemistry who is applying to minimum wage jobs.

Starling
07-14-2013, 03:23 PM
Yeah this is the sad reality that many of my friends are dealing with. It also reminds me of this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bunch-young-lawyers-suing-law-195616601.html

New grad lawyers who can't find jobs suing their law schools.

simone87
07-14-2013, 03:28 PM
yup! i know a man who is 38 living with his mom still!!! along with his two OLDER brothers! the thing is though, he makes no effort to get out even though i know he doesn't feel good about himself or situation. and im sorry but that i can't feel pity for..that's just lazy. his mom is also pretty old and very sickly..i wonder what these people are going to do when the gravy train passes away..and those are the ones who have parents willing to put them up at that age, so many parents will not do this!

most women at 25 ( pretty much women in their 20s in general) still live with their parents as well, just read that a few weeks ago..the world has turned into a very cold, unpredictable place where a college degree is not gonna guarantee you anything! i still believe though that if you are smart, dedicated, tenacious, and have an entrepreneurial spirit (sp?) you can succeed. you just have to be creative and think outside the box and you cannot be lazy and fearful.

GlamourRouge
07-14-2013, 04:00 PM
IMO, this is the biggest issue affecting young people (job-wise) these days is...


You need to move to where the job you want is. Where the industry is. Where they are hiring people for that job. And where ever you get hired. Chances are, its not going to be where your family lives or where you grew up. This is even true with dancing! You need to move where the money is, where you fit the look that area likes to hire.

A bigger problem with that is, if you have no money to move, you can't move. However, motivated people and people who come from money are able to and do move, and make it work. Too many people are too afraid to take risks these days. But taking risks are pretty much the only way your career life will pay off.

And I don't get why people are so scared to move away for a job. If you're moving to an area where the industry you want to work in is a hot market, chances are you will meet a lot of other people who did the same thing. And you'll already have your work in common with people, so you can network and meet other people through people you work with. Networking trumps a degree any day. You need to network to get hired (and get more opportunities along the way) whether you have a degree or not anyway.


The concept of moving for a job is a concept that most parents and family members cannot handle and will not support. Parents and families would rather have you live at home and pay your bills while you look for some menial job, than allow you to move away for a really good entry-level job. In many cultures, and even in American culture still, its frowned upon to move far away from your family. Just like the idea of getting married and having kids, our parents' generation has a lot of outdated stereotypes that are not practical for most people in the technologically-advanced world we live in today.

Starling
07-14-2013, 04:21 PM
^
LOL yes, I have told my family that I am possibly going to move to another part of the country at some point and a shitstorm ensued. I have to remind them that what's best for them isn't what's best for me.

And that is pretty much what I told my one friend in my hometown, to try to get out of there. There are no opportunities for him there.

Unfortunately for my accounting friend, he has tried going to different parts of our state to find work and even did a skype interview for a place in Alabama, but he has had no luck yet.

Kellydancer
07-14-2013, 04:57 PM
Moving isn't a bad idea but the problem is in some fields there just aren't any jobs. People should choose a major wisely in college but that doesn't always help either (and most people end up not using their major). Then there is the issue with licensing where you might have a license in one state but to move to another you may need additional training and that might be an issue.

cherryblossomsinspring
07-14-2013, 06:59 PM
Half of all babies born are unplanned, meaning an accident. That doesn't even factor in abortions. Birth control fails, and fails often. I swear that even on SW, dozens of girls have commented how they have gotten pregnant on birth control even with perfect use- many of them multiple times. And the show I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant wouldn't exist if birth control didn't fail, and fail to the point where you didn't even realize it failed.

Actually I think we've been reading the wrong threads because fromw what I've seen the majority that get pregnant are not using protection at all. In all cases the man is doing nothing to put in extra help. Condom+ pulling out is all that is needed. Do both and I would seriously be surprised if a guy actually got someone pregnant. The point is if that has to be done the guy's enjoyment of being inside her when he busts diminishes " boo hoo". That's my point. His pleasure of having all the bells and whistles is more important that the physical, mental and financial discomfort she'll deal with later on. Remember HE is getting her pregnant. So what his HE doing to prevent HIS sperm from getting her pregnant?? In most cases not enough.

cherryblossomsinspring
07-14-2013, 07:02 PM
^^
Regarding the degree issue, I know a lot of people with degrees who have been unemployed for YEARS. I am not talking worthless degrees like women's studies or art history, I'm talking education or science or teaching (lots of teachers). I know of someone who graduated with an art degree and $100,000 in debt who is working at a store and someone with a Ph.D in some science field like biochemistry who is applying to minimum wage jobs.

That is correct. There is a know guy with a Ph.D in some type of science field that actually applied for benefits. He was on benefits in 2009 which seems seriously shocking.

WorthIt
07-14-2013, 07:15 PM
These are the SAME men who will bitch when they have to clean the house and babysit even when the woman is totally supporting them. Oh, am I taking your "manhood" away? Is your "manhood" whatever will be convenient for YOU and no one else at any moment in time. How about just being, ya know, an adult? Who take responsibility for their actions, are supportive to loved ones, and understand the value of hard work and good companionship?

Kellydancer
07-14-2013, 08:47 PM
Actually I think we've been reading the wrong threads because fromw what I've seen the majority that get pregnant are not using protection at all. In all cases the man is doing nothing to put in extra help. Condom+ pulling out is all that is needed. Do both and I would seriously be surprised if a guy actually got someone pregnant. The point is if that has to be done the guy's enjoyment of being inside her when he busts diminishes " boo hoo". That's my point. His pleasure of having all the bells and whistles is more important that the physical, mental and financial discomfort she'll deal with later on. Remember HE is getting her pregnant. So what his HE doing to prevent HIS sperm from getting her pregnant?? In most cases not enough.

I've read those stories too and it infuriates me. I am so stunned when people get pregnant until I see they use nothing or use withdrawal. WRONG ANSWER. I am also stunned when I read all these stories about these women having sex with men they knew wouldn't help them yet are having unprotected sex. Let's be honest, are these the people we want having kids?

Kellydancer
07-14-2013, 09:12 PM
That is correct. There is a know guy with a Ph.D in some type of science field that actually applied for benefits. He was on benefits in 2009 which seems seriously shocking.

I 2009 I went to a job seminar for out of work professionals and the people who were unemployed stunned me. All had degrees and most had advanced degrees like PhD and JJD. Several were scientists no less with PhD's and in fields that are supposedly in demand. Others were things like nurses and medical professionals. It was terrifying to hear these stories of educated people who did everything right yet are unable to find jobs. Yet at the same time businesses are importing workers claiming there is a skills shortage but this is a lie. I'm not going to get into where I think the problems lie because then it becomes political except to say all the politicians from both parties screwed us over and keep doing so until basically everyone is in heavy debt and both skilled and unskilled people are unemployed or underemployed.

Trem
07-15-2013, 07:20 AM
Could've sworn i posted something here...

Renton
07-15-2013, 07:35 AM
^You did, but the server had problems and they had to use a backup from the 11th...

richdummy
07-15-2013, 08:38 AM
Man here chiming in

In the past 14 years I've been unemployed exactly one hour - and it was because I quit, and the executives of the company moved me away from the team I was on to a customer consulting role because they were unwilling to lose me. My friends have also been employed the whole time since college/high school. They are almost all married with children. They are even happy. Most are lawyers - some went to school for business etc. I know girls like to have fun (Cindy Lauper taught us that) but when it's grow up time, bad boy crush isn't going to handle business for you.

I will say I did opt out of education. I went to a university (top 15 for what I was studying) and saw the dotcom boom as too attractive to stay in school and accrue debt. For my particular field that turned out to be an ok decision - but it's not a viable option for most folks. I may have left college early but I've always been reading, learning and expanding my knowledge in the areas of my work, as well as legal/compliance, health/medicine, science/physics/astronomy, and personal finance/investing. My field is growing for now but my exit strategy is to go back to school for a law degree or help people with their financial planning once my field dries up. My current employer would pay for any college credits I would want to take so there is no reason not to.

I'm not married but that is more because I've been more career focused and have not met the right person - not because I'm afraid. That said I do not seem to attract a gaggle of women. I grew up with divorced parents so I see the need for people to support their children - but the fact that a man can pay their "baby momma" every month and continually be sued for more means there is a problem with the court system. People should never use children and visitation as a bartering chip - either they are a fit parent and support the child and deserve to be a part of their life or not. My parents weren't thrilled with each other but they were fair with each other. If only we could see what kind of person our mate will be before we get started with them. :)

invibe
07-18-2013, 12:01 AM
Watched the video thinking it would be about young slackers who just play Call of Duty all day, but she has great points.

Unfortunately I think college is overrated. More people should probably be going to trade schools, a fully licensed electrician has good earning potential and many end up in their own business. I am certainly not against college, but students need a clear plan that checks more boxes than "went to college".

Guys have a lot of incentives to take their time and look for ms. amazing. A generation of men raised by single mothers (divorced or otherwise) has changed the way men view becoming adults. It used to be a very linear path from being a boy to becoming Ward Clever. The example of how to be a man was literally brain washed into men in the 50s. Without making excuses for anyone, there are a lot of guys who have to figure it out as they go. Men do not have an instinct for for what to do, it is learned behavior.

I think what is happening, at least with the winner type guys who aren't irresponsible/scumbags is it is just taking longer to grow up and reach a point where they want something more. The silver lining might be that it is a choice to do this rather than an expectation. Just guesses from observation of course.

Will
07-18-2013, 05:35 AM
short video at

http://www.youtube.com/embed/BoXQf2f2Yxo?feature=player_embedded

Nothing fuc%#s up a perfectly good relationship like getting married.

GlamourRouge
07-18-2013, 08:36 AM
Unfortunately I think college is overrated. More people should probably be going to trade schools, a fully licensed electrician has good earning potential and many end up in their own business. I am certainly not against college, but students need a clear plan that checks more boxes than "went to college".

I agree. What I never understood was... okay so people go to college because they want a good job and to make money. But, if money is what they are after, wouldn't it be better to get a trade, become the best at it, save up a fuckton of money from being at the top of your craft/field, and then opening several other businesses where you may not even have to physically work in them? Like... working for someone else isn't going to make you rich. And anyway, the only field where you do make a strong paycheck are the ones that are trade-based anyway (engineering, computer science, etc).

I'm not anti-college. In fact, I do think college can be good, I just think a degree is pointless unless you know what you want to do with it. You can learn a lot from college, but you can learn the same things on your own time from books you check out from the library for free. I really wish they would cut the last 2 years of high school and make it mandatory community college with the option to graduate with an AA or technical certificate.

Money is better spent toward starting a trade or business, than on a degree that does not guarantee you anything. If money is no object and you WANT to go to college, I see no problem with that though.

Kellydancer
07-18-2013, 12:49 PM
Lol. That made me think of the movie "Idiocracy" where the dumb people keep multiplying, but all the educated ones died out.
Sadly, I could see that happening someday... The concept, not the actual scenarios the movie outlined. lol.
Great movie though- check it out. :P

Love that movie and yes I think we are seeing that happen today.

cherryblossomsinspring
07-20-2013, 01:18 AM
Watched the video thinking it would be about young slackers who just play Call of Duty all day, but she has great points.

Unfortunately I think college is overrated. More people should probably be going to trade schools, a fully licensed electrician has good earning potential and many end up in their own business. I am certainly not against college, but students need a clear plan that checks more boxes than "went to college".

Guys have a lot of incentives to take their time and look for ms. amazing. A generation of men raised by single mothers (divorced or otherwise) has changed the way men view becoming adults. It used to be a very linear path from being a boy to becoming Ward Clever. The example of how to be a man was literally brain washed into men in the 50s. Without making excuses for anyone, there are a lot of guys who have to figure it out as they go. Men do not have an instinct for for what to do, it is learned behavior.

I think what is happening, at least with the winner type guys who aren't irresponsible/scumbags is it is just taking longer to grow up and reach a point where they want something more. The silver lining might be that it is a choice to do this rather than an expectation. Just guesses from observation of course.

Actually I really do agree with this comment. No one seems to be around to teach young men how to be men with relation to women . It's weird because I have watched some of those old reels where it's the "how to do this son" . It's hilarious but at the same time it makes perfect sense. Our society has gone from brainwashing of " be a good guy and always say please and thank you" now it's " get it and get out before they notice". Plus our media supports this idea so we're brainwashing in the opposite direction.

!TheOne
07-27-2013, 11:00 AM
That was actually quite a sensible video. :)

But she didn't go into the opting out of Education and Work.