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michele11
10-13-2013, 12:07 PM
Oh and the feds shutdown prime fishing areas in Key west this week until further notice....google it!

Melonie
10-13-2013, 04:17 PM
I did ... and found this ...


(snip)"The article explained that the closure related to the Florida Bay and linked to a Miami Herald article. The Herald pulled information from the Florida Keys Keynoter, which stated that boat charter guides received a message from the National Park Service banning them from taking customers to fish in Florida Bay, which is within the boundaries of the Everglades National Park.

More than 1,100 square miles of prime fishing, between the southern tip of the mainland and the Keys, would be off limits until further notice, according to Dan Kimball, superintendent of Everglades and Dry Tortugas national parks.

We tracked down the message that commercial use permit holders for Everglades National park received:

"Effective at 6 p.m. on Oct. 1, 2013, both Everglades and Dry Tortugas National Parks will be closed. While our law enforcement rangers will remain on duty, all other administrative activities and visitor services will be discontinued until the shutdown has been lifted. If you have a trip planned for Oct. 1, you must conclude your business within the park by 6 p.m. After today, you may not offer any services within the park's boundaries until further notice. We regret the burden that this will place on your livelihood. We will notify you when the park is reopened."

Kimball confirmed to PolitiFact Florida that the Florida Bay, which encompasses about a half-million acres, is closed due to the shutdown. However, there are exceptions, including transit through the park.

"You can’t anchor, you can’t fish," Kimball said. "It has to be for transportation purposes."

Also, the feds will allow access in emergencies, such as seeking shelter from a storm, and they granted the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission access to monitor algae blooms.

"Just like the Grand Canyon is closed during shutdown -- it's federal property -- so is the Florida Bay under the Everglades National Park,""(snip)


So yes it appears that, like other areas adjacent to National Parks, Key West Florida is feeling some direct effects of THIS budget impasse. This was somewhat surprising, since the National Park Service has never issued such 'exclusion orders' for federal waters during any of the 16 preceding budget impasses.

Eric Stoner
10-14-2013, 07:26 AM
Were going to have to agree to disagree. You haven't danced in YEARS so you really can't comment on earning potential in the clubs today. I also work in the top clubs in the U.S. My clients aren't the bottom 90% they are attorneys, doctors, business owners, it guys, finance guys and I have seen an up and down decline in their spending thoughout the last 4 years.

What is an "up and down decline " ? Is their spending up over the last four years or has it gone down ?

Eric Stoner
10-14-2013, 07:34 AM
At the risk of getting, God help us ! , political, there is one thing that is very unclear, at least to me : Who says we have to default on our debt come October 17 ? We have money coming in. $ 3 trillion a year. It seems to me that is enough to pay interest on existing debt ; pay Social Security recipients ; pay military salaries and do a lot of other things. As I understand it, we can't issue new debt or increase our total indebtedness without Congressional authorization. But who says we have to default on existing debt ?

It gets worse. If Obama and his Treasury Dept. do default i.e. if they miss interest payments and /or fail to redeem existing debt that has come due that is a black letter violation of the 14th Amendment. In other words, whether he likes it or not the fat cats get paid FIRST. Then the Social Security recipients and after that it is pretty much discretionary with Obama who gets paid what and when with existing revenues.

Melonie
10-14-2013, 07:52 AM
^^^ That's not what actually happened the last time that the US gov't technically defaulted on it's US Treasury Bond payments in 1979 !!! ( Yes the US gov't has defaulted before, in fact several times !!! ). Owners of some US Treasury Bonds at that time were 'stiffed' via late payments ... and ultimately had to sue to recover unpaid additional interest due.

In regard to the ability of the US gov't to 'prioritize' spending of the $3 trillion in tax revenues among the $4 trillion worth of 'bills' to be paid ( at recent annual spending levels anyhow ) should the debt ceiling not be raised to allow the borrowing and spending of the extra $1 trillion, there is actually a great deal of dispute in this area. Constitutionalists agree with you that the US Treasury has a duty to pay bondholders first. Constitutionalists agree with you that debt owed to US gov't 'trust funds' i.e. Social Security and Medicare, has second priority. However, others point to the possible invocation of presidential 'emergency powers' as an option that could 'prioritize' US gov't spending in any manner judged to be in the 'best interests'.



My clients aren't the bottom 90% they are attorneys, doctors, business owners, it guys, finance guys and I have seen an up and down decline in their spending thoughout the last 4 years.

again we're back to the issue of separating the direct negative effects of the present budget impasse on the 'dancer economy' ( which has been going on for 2 weeks ), versus negative effects on the 'dancer economy' that stem from other causes and have been in progress for a much longer time period. While I am no longer actively dancing, and thus don't have 'first person' input to offer in regard to specific club earnings potentials ( as you previously pointed out ), down here way south of the border I constantly interact with vacationing American attorneys, doctors, business owners, banking / finance guys etc.

Generally speaking, ALL have been worried about the future prospects of the US economy, and particularly worried about the direct future prospects for their own business profitability, for many months now. I would add that the doctors and business owners have been worried since last November, while the rest became worried around last May.

Eric Stoner
10-14-2013, 10:12 AM
True but Obama does not have discretion to stiff bondholders or Social Security recipients. As bad as it is for the government not to have enough money to keep running a default would be disastrous. The "full faith and credit " of the United States would lose its previous sterling reputation. Interest rates would soar. Foreign investment in the U.S. would take a hit. The dollar would stop being the world's reserve currency. We've never defaulted but other countries have. All we have to do is look at what happened to their economies. Those defaults resulted from either an inability to pay interest and/or an inability to borrow further.

The one thing Obama COULD arguably do under his emergency powers is just ignore the debt limit and issue the debt necessary to keep things running. It's the least bad , least illegal and least unconstitutional option that he'd have. Who would really complain ? The Senate would never vote to convict him even if some wing nuts in the House tried to impeach him.

Melonie
10-14-2013, 11:00 AM
^^^ frankly speaking, ANYTHING is possible in the above regard. Example ... the Washington WW2 memorial was opened to illegal immigrants, but closed to retired G.I.'s. The point of course is that, in today's reality, the 'law' seems to be whatever will not be prosecuted and / or anything that will not be objected to by US mainstream media ...

All I can really judge by is the fact that today's US stock market is UP ... despite the fact that a hoped-for 'deal' to temporarily resolve the budget impasse went 'into the dumper' over the weekend. This would not / could not have happened if there were any serious possibility of the US cutting back on gov't spending / money printing.

You've also got the IMF's Christine LaGarde warning that US failure to take on more debt could precipitate a worldwide economic collapse. Ttranslation ... failure of the US to swap her Euro denominated debt for our US dollar denominated debt or to provide ongoing US FED funding of IMF backed bailouts of Greece, Portugal, Spain etc. plus bailouts of European banks with US branches would cause big problems for the European economy.

Economic Reality has long since 'left the building'.

Also, if you do a little digging re US Treasury bond owners in 1979 you'll discover that the US did in fact ( selectively ) default on payments to those bondholders. Granted that the bondholders were eventually made 'whole'.

Bone
10-15-2013, 07:25 AM
Economic Panic seems to have replaced reality, no doubt about. I feel the danger is linked more to consumer confidence. With the gov't in doubt, people preaching wide spread damage, etc it is going to make people hold on to their money. Our economy, for better or worse, is very much a consumer and services based economy. And we are moving into the Xmas retail season where businesses (as I'm sure you are all aware) need people to spend money! And if confidence is low, the threat of higher interest rates, and having to go through it all again in a few months is still there people are going to spend less. Businesses of all types plan their break even or profit periods during this time. And if those fail or fall short you will see another round of large and small business shutting down. To me that is the real danger of all this crap.

Melonie
10-15-2013, 08:28 AM
^^^ unfortunately, 'consumer confidence' isn't a purely psychological phenomena. Like it or not 'consumer confidence' is affected by such real world economic issues as income levels not rising / working hours being cut, costs increasing for 'necessary items' such as taxes, food, energy, insurance premiums etc. And 'consumer confidence' is also affected by such real world economic issues as hitting the limit on the consumer's credit card, thus forcing future consumer spending to be limited to the consumer's actual 'net' income levels.

Your post implies that consumers have money available for additional spending, which they are voluntarily NOT spending due to uncertainties. My point is that consumers have NOT had money available for additional spending for several years now ... but they spent money anyhow ... not their own money but 'borrowed' money, access to which is becoming increasingly limited due to higher creditworthiness standards, stricter income verification requirements, higher 'subprime' interest rates etc.

Glaring exceptions to this have been student loans, FHA mortgage loans, and GMAC/Ally Bank 'subprime' auto loans, all of which facilitated huge amounts of 'borrowed' money fueled spending. Arguably, many such loans would never have been made were it not for the fact that US taxpayers acted as de-facto 'cosigners'. Indeed the 'borrowed' money from such loans did result in increased sales of I-Pads, home furnishings, and GM / Chrysler cars. But, for better or worse, the default rates on all of these loans are atrocious, with the US taxpayer eventually being forced to 'pick up the tab' for resulting loan losses ... i.e. the FHA just received a 1.7 billion taxpayer bailout. And similarly for better or worse, US tax revenue dollars having to be diverted to 'loan service', be that paying principal and interest on US treasury bills, or paying 'bailout' money on gov't guaranteed defaulting loans, means that fewer US tax revenue dollars are available for spending on salaries, benefits, gov't contracts etc. which arguably stimulate the US economy.

Actually, the US gov't is about to face a very similar situation in regard to the debt ceiling i.e. the gov't's 'credit card' is maxxed out, and 'debt service' is claiming an increasing portion of the gov'ts incoming cash flow.

Eric Stoner
10-15-2013, 11:21 AM
We are creeping towards the "forbidden zone " aka the political so let us all take a step back and try to refocus on the factual and PRACTICAL. This is an important thread and it would be shame for it to be closed. I share the frustration over what is going on in Washington but whatever will be , will be. Regardless of what we post here.

Bone
10-15-2013, 01:15 PM
Oh and the feds shutdown prime fishing areas in Key west this week until further notice....google it!

MFer's shut down our salmon runs this weekend!!!

whirlerz
10-15-2013, 01:23 PM
Where's that?^

michele11
10-15-2013, 07:11 PM
MFer's shut down our salmon runs this weekend!!!

Were you there on vacation? I make a lot of money in key west with customers who come in to charter boats to fish. Oh and powerboat but I guess this is the last year for that because the keys aren't going to give an sponser money anymore.

michele11
10-15-2013, 07:14 PM
Oh I'm guessing you were in the keys but probably not?

Bone
10-15-2013, 09:45 PM
no, Illinois. To get to some of the best spots you have to go through some of the federally owned land. They shut down over 125,000 acres around where I live and we go fishing. We were planning on going fly fishing in Yellowstone as well, no dice.

Melonie
10-16-2013, 03:40 AM
I'm not sure how directly applicable this may be regarding dancer / camgirl incomes, but THIS was just sent out by the USDA ...


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/10/Foodstamp%20USDA%20Letter_0.jpg

Bone
10-16-2013, 07:18 AM
Seems like it would impact anyone using EBT no matter the job. I wouldn't be surprised if there were dancers who used it.

Melonie
10-16-2013, 12:57 PM
in the way of an update ...

A 'deal' has been made in Washington which will effectively 'kick the can down the road' ... with US gov't spending allowed to continue at current levels through January 15th, and with a 1 trillion dollar increase in the US gov'ts debt ceiling to allow the gov't to borrow enough additional money to fund that spending.

In the meantime, this will mean that gov't workers will return to their jobs ... most likely with 2 weeks worth of 'vacation pay' on top of the two weeks worth of unemployment checks they received for the same period. This will probably create a surge in customer spending at strip clubs where gov't employees / US military comprise a major portion of the club's customer base.

Similarly, national parks will reopen, most likely allowing an immediate resumption of local economic activity that is reliant on those national parks. While a customer spending surge is unlikely, it is probable that customer spending at strip clubs near such areas will see customer spending return to previous levels.

However, this 'kick the can down the road' measure only covers the next 3 months, after which the situation of the past 2 weeks may resume with a vengeance. Dancers may want to plan accordingly.

simone87
10-16-2013, 01:02 PM
did you guys hear that incident where there as a glitch and EBT card showed an unlimited balance?? i guess entire walmarts were cleaned out in a day..everything is all messed up lol
http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/louisiana_taxpayers_not_on_hoo.html

Aurora14
10-16-2013, 01:08 PM
Regarding WIC and Foodstamps, the dates for those 'ending' are up in the air. Each state does receive federal money to assist in funding these programs, but it would depend on how many recipients there are an how well each state budgeted. From what I've heard, the programs are running on a month to month basis until the funding crisis is resolved or they run out of money, whichever happens first.

As helpful as WIC is, it is a very wasteful program. When it comes to formula, you get 11 cans per month (single infant). The type of formula can be changed for those with special diets, by prescription from the pediatrician only because these formulas cost more. By default you have to purchase 12.5 oz Enfamil Infant Formula (yellow can) costing $15.97 each. That's $175.67 a month. If a person is doing their shopping at WalMart, they can get their store brand of formula for $8.44 per can. That's $92.84 a month. A $82.83 a month difference. Can you imagine how much money could be saved if only HALF of the recipients bought store brand formula if given the choice?

This goes with all the vouchers. A person can only buy what is specified on the voucher. Each store decides what qualifies for purchase with the vouchers. Say you need milk and one brand is on sale, making it cheaper than the brand the store approves, you can't buy the brand on sale. I know because it happened to me. Even though the WIC rules state that you're supposed to buy the cheapest item they don't let you do it if it isn't WIC approved. I've had times that I went to grab peanut butter and there was none of the WIC approved on the shelf, so I would grab the next cheapest peanut butter in the same size. I'd end up arguing with the cashier half the time and not getting it. I'm just glad I don't deal with that anymore, it can drive a person mad!


Bone, seeing as you are in IL, here are a few other affected areas according to the Chicago Tribune. I imagine these problems are in all 50 states also:

~ National cemeteries in Illinois, such as Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery in Elwood, are open, and interments will continue, but officials there are conducting a reduced number of burials each day, so some families may have to pay for storage of a loved one until they can be scheduled, Veterans Affairs officials said.

~ At the University of Chicago Medicine, a federally funded study of a drug-resistant bacteria is on hold.

~ Beer fans in Chicago and nationwide could feel the burn of the shutdown as new seasonal beers are kept off store shelves. The Treasury Department's Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau has sent home most of its 483-person staff, leaving nobody to process label applications and approve new formulas at a time when brewers are prepping seasonal beers for the holidays, beer makers said.

~ Arlington Heights School District 25 and the Arlington Teachers' Association are bracing for postponement of a mediation session scheduled for Wednesday because the federal mediator running the negotiations is on furlough, along with thousands of other federal workers based in Illinois. Since March, the school district of 5,100 students has been in negotiation with its union representing 485 teachers. The teachers' contract expired in August. In the Chicago area, the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police Labor Council reports that at least 10 sessions for mediation have been either canceled by the circumstances or gone unscheduled because its federal mediators are out of work.

~ Recently hired at a new downtown restaurant, Chan Hall entered the Metcalfe Federal Building this week to get copies of her Social Security card to hand over to a new employer so she could prove her citizenship and start a bartending job. The mundane task was cut short steps away from the building's front door. Security guards informed Hall that the Social Security office couldn't provide printouts or copies of her card because of the partial government shutdown.

~ Farmdale Trail Run race director Ann Schmitt faced a last-minute scramble to find another set of trails big enough for the 50-mile, 30-mile, 10-kilometer and half-marathon race scheduled to take place at a popular trail in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers' Farmdale Reservoir in East Peoria, which was barricaded due to the shutdown.

~ Closures of Illinois' national parks, such as Crab Orchard National Wildlife Refuge, just west of Marion, means anxiety for tourism officials downstate who expect revenue each year from thousands of sportsmen coming to the area for fall hunting seasons. The wildlife refuge draws more than 19,000 hunters each year, especially when deer, water foul and duck hunting seasons begin. Not only would hotels and restaurants be out some dollars without the influx of hunters, some visiting the area often need to buy other incidentals like strings for their bows or waders for collecting water fowl, which can costs hundreds of dollars.

Melonie
10-16-2013, 01:18 PM
again, a 'deal' has been made in Washington, and all of these closures will be rescinded. WIC and Food Stamp beneficiaries will be paid their full benefits. Gov't employees will be paid their regular salaries for the past 2 weeks worth of 'vacation' ( on top of receiving 2 weeks worth of unemployment checks ).

However, with gov't spending thus continuing at levels that exceed tax revenues by some 33%, the US gov't will be running up yet more debt to allow spending to continue at these levels during the next 3 months. The 'deal' does not address this. As such, it's very probable that the events of the past two weeks will 'reappear' next January when the 'deal' expires. Thus dancers who were affected by this budget impasse may want to plan accordingly.

Bone
10-16-2013, 07:25 PM
Even more atrocious is they manged to tack some pork spending on to the bill. Truly disgusting.

michele11
10-16-2013, 09:34 PM
We are creeping towards the "forbidden zone " aka the political so let us all take a step back and try to refocus on the factual and PRACTICAL. This is an important thread and it would be shame for it to be closed. I share the frustration over what is going on in Washington but whatever will be , will be. Regardless of what we post here.

Eric, have you become a moderator???

Melonie
10-17-2013, 02:19 AM
Even more atrocious is they managed to tack some pork spending on to the bill. Truly disgusting

According to my acquaintances in the financial industry, a different provision of this 'deal' is far more disturbing ... and may have major economic consequences ... from


(snip)"There's only one foolproof way to avoid a future crisis: Fundamentally change the way the debt ceiling works.

This approach isn't all that radical. Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., proposed a reform in January that would change the debt-ceiling mechanism so that Congress would vote to disapprove of an increase, as opposed to approving one. Such a change would limit debt-ceiling negotiations to a veto-proof majority, while still leaving Congress with some power.

The most interesting part of this proposal? It was originally floated in 2011 by Republican leader Sen. Mitch McConnell. The potential for a bipartisan deal here that fixes the debt-limit problem is real. Sen. Boxer continues to advocate for the change.(snip)

(snip)"Additionally, New York Magazine remarked, the provision would "defang the debt ceiling, returning it to its historical place as an opportunity for ineffectual posturing rather than extortion." However it would only apply to the next debt ceiling vote. The debt limit can only currently be increased if Congress affirmatively votes to raise it and the president signs it into law. During Congress' last debt limit debate in 2011, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R - KY) wanted to invert this process by making it automatic, unless Congress voted against it and the president did not veto it. Theoretically, Congress could override a veto, but given the current makeup of both chambers that would be nearly impossible."(snip)


As a side note, by 'pure coincidence', the $2.1 billion in pork spending you noted as being part of this 'deal' is specifically targeted for the state of KY !!!

If this 'deal' provision, which would substitute the current need for both houses of Congress to actively approve a debt ceiling increase ... with an 'automatic' debt ceiling increase which can only be STOPPED by an active NO vote by both houses of Congress ... is indeed part of the 'deal' proposal, then in reality yesterday's 'kick the can' interpretation is incorrect. Instead, this provision would essentially guarantee an 'automatic' increase in the US debt ceiling next spring, which effectively eliminates any further need for budget talks / gov't spending reductions.

My contacts in the financial industry are of the opinion that this 'automatic' increase in the US debt ceiling will inject yet more ( borrowed ) money into the US economy, resulting in US stock markets rising. They are also of the opinion that this will create downward pressure on the US dollar, also leading to higher interest rates, higher prices for 'global' commodities like gold, food, oil, etc. Obviously, time will tell whether or not my financial industry contacts are correct in their assessment ( although this morning gold is up, the US dollar is down, stock market futures are up, gasoline futures are unchanged, corn futures are up. etc. ). But in any case this 'deal' would obviously also avoid a 'replay' of the recent shutdown of gov't services.

As to whether this provision is actually part of the 'deal', we'll find out today. As to whether the aftermath of this 'deal' is a good thing or a bad thing for dancers in general, that probably will depend on both the specific 'market' they are working in, as well as the type of customers they primarily depend on for their incomes. Specifically, this should be good for Key West and Washington area dancers ( where federal facilities and federal paychecks play a significant role ), and also good for Manhattan dancers ( where the stock market plays a significant role ). However, this might not be so good for dancers working in suburban clubs that aren't adjacent to federal facilities, where the customer base isn't part of the top 1-5-10% of American earners who benefit the most from rising stock markets, thus rising food and energy prices may cut into available customer 'private dance' money.

In regard to Eric's earlier 'warning', I take this as a necessary attempt at 'self-policing' to try and allow continued SW discussion of topics that have significant economic relevance to dancers and camgirls, but which also have some unavoidable 'political' component. If the 'political' component is marginalized while the economic component is discussed in detail, odds are that the thread will remain open. If the 'political' component begins to move to the fore-front, odds are that the thread will be closed or deleted ... thus depriving dancers and camgirls of the unique perspective on the economic aspects that SW can provide but mainstream financial media cannot.

Eric Stoner
10-17-2013, 07:46 AM
Eric, have you become a moderator???

It was just a suggestion.

I'm not a moderator but I have read the rules including the updated version. We are supposed to avoid politics. Period.
Other threads have had to be closed because a couple of posters couldn't help themselves and wouldn't tone it down. Sadly those threads dealt with important topics with plenty of socially redeeming value.

I have modified my own posting to try and comply. So has Eagle and some of my other favorite dueling partners lol. So has Melonie.

At the risk of coming across as a scold I was just trying to keep the sandbox open for everybody.

Eric Stoner
10-17-2013, 10:20 AM
According to my acquaintances in the financial industry, a different provision of this 'deal' is far more disturbing ... and may have major economic consequences ... from http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/16/Senate-Debt-Deal-Includes-Provision-Taking-Away-Congress-Power-To-Increase-Debt-Ceiling


(snip)"There's only one foolproof way to avoid a future crisis: Fundamentally change the way the debt ceiling works.

This approach isn't all that radical. Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., proposed a reform in January that would change the debt-ceiling mechanism so that Congress would vote to disapprove of an increase, as opposed to approving one. Such a change would limit debt-ceiling negotiations to a veto-proof majority, while still leaving Congress with some power.

The most interesting part of this proposal? It was originally floated in 2011 by Republican leader Sen. Mitch McConnell. The potential for a bipartisan deal here that fixes the debt-limit problem is real. Sen. Boxer continues to advocate for the change.(snip)

(snip)"Additionally, New York Magazine remarked, the provision would "defang the debt ceiling, returning it to its historical place as an opportunity for ineffectual posturing rather than extortion." However it would only apply to the next debt ceiling vote. The debt limit can only currently be increased if Congress affirmatively votes to raise it and the president signs it into law. During Congress' last debt limit debate in 2011, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R - KY) wanted to invert this process by making it automatic, unless Congress voted against it and the president did not veto it. Theoretically, Congress could override a veto, but given the current makeup of both chambers that would be nearly impossible."(snip)


As a side note, by 'pure coincidence', the $2.1 billion in pork spending you noted as being part of this 'deal' is specifically targeted for the state of KY !!!

If this 'deal' provision, which would substitute the current need for both houses of Congress to actively approve a debt ceiling increase ... with an 'automatic' debt ceiling increase which can only be STOPPED by an active NO vote by both houses of Congress ... is indeed part of the 'deal' proposal, then in reality yesterday's 'kick the can' interpretation is incorrect. Instead, this provision would essentially guarantee an 'automatic' increase in the US debt ceiling next spring, which effectively eliminates any further need for budget talks / gov't spending reductions.

My contacts in the financial industry are of the opinion that this 'automatic' increase in the US debt ceiling will inject yet more ( borrowed ) money into the US economy, resulting in US stock markets rising. They are also of the opinion that this will create downward pressure on the US dollar, also leading to higher interest rates, higher prices for 'global' commodities like gold, food, oil, etc. Obviously, time will tell whether or not my financial industry contacts are correct in their assessment ( although this morning gold is up, the US dollar is down, stock market futures are up, gasoline futures are unchanged, corn futures are up. etc. ). But in any case this 'deal' would obviously also avoid a 'replay' of the recent shutdown of gov't services.

As to whether this provision is actually part of the 'deal', we'll find out today. As to whether the aftermath of this 'deal' is a good thing or a bad thing for dancers in general, that probably will depend on both the specific 'market' they are working in, as well as the type of customers they primarily depend on for their incomes. Specifically, this should be good for Key West and Washington area dancers ( where federal facilities and federal paychecks play a significant role ), and also good for Manhattan dancers ( where the stock market plays a significant role ). However, this might not be so good for dancers working in suburban clubs that aren't adjacent to federal facilities, where the customer base isn't part of the top 1-5-10% of American earners who benefit the most from rising stock markets, thus rising food and energy prices may cut into available customer 'private dance' money.

In regard to Eric's earlier 'warning', I take this as a necessary attempt at 'self-policing' to try and allow continued SW discussion of topics that have significant economic relevance to dancers and camgirls, but which also have some unavoidable 'political' component. If the 'political' component is marginalized while the economic component is discussed in detail, odds are that the thread will remain open. If the 'political' component begins to move to the fore-front, odds are that the thread will be closed or deleted ... thus depriving dancers and camgirls of the unique perspective on the economic aspects that SW can provide but mainstream financial media cannot.

The "old" debt limit was $16.7 trillion. We don't know what the new limit will be. Congress et.al. haven't told us yet. At present the U.S. is already over the old limit by about $200 billion. It was part of the "extraordinary measures " that Secretary of the Treasury Jack Lew has been using for the past few months to keep things running despite the fact that the U.S. is technically broke. Lew used the Exchange Stabilization Fund , the Civil Service Retirement Fund and the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefit Fund. That money has to be paid back soon and with interest. So out of whatever additional borrowing authority Congress authorizes , the first $200 billion has to go to make these funds whole. Part of the most recent deal includes authorization for Lew to keep steal I mean borrowing from these and other funds. When asked if Treasury was doing any additional "borrowing" from the Social Security Trust Fund the Treasury Department refused to answer. I think that means "Yes".

Thank you Melonie. That's all it was. Just trying to ask everyone to stay within the guidelines.

Melonie
10-17-2013, 01:21 PM
^^^ in point of fact, the debt ceiling was raised by $986 billion.

slowpoke
10-17-2013, 01:27 PM
Worthless legislative branch cratered on us.

Aurora14
10-18-2013, 07:50 AM
Gov't employees will be paid their regular salaries for the past 2 weeks worth of 'vacation' ( on top of receiving 2 weeks worth of unemployment checks ).


They are receiving their pay and unemployment?! THAT is a waste. I understand it's not their fault, so yes they should get unemployment. They WEREN'T working, why are they getting their regular pay? The whole situation happened because of WASTEFUL SPENDING!

Melonie
10-18-2013, 08:46 AM
^^^ technically speaking, furloughed gov't workers who applied for and received unemployment checks for the two weeks they could not work ARE obligated to return that unemployment money to the VA, MD, DC or whatever state agency which actually cut the checks when they receive retro-active paychecks. However, no mechanism really exists for those state unemployment agencies to recoup the money other than 'voluntary' repayment. Given the present 'climate', it's a certainty that no state unemployment agency official is going to attempt a targeted effort to force 'involuntary' repayment.

The bright side for dancers working in areas of heavy federal employee presence is that these federal workers now have a 'windfall profit' available from the unemployment checks which can be spent at strip clubs !

Eric Stoner
10-18-2013, 10:49 AM
^^^ in point of fact, the debt ceiling was raised by $986 billion.

Um , not exactly Mel. I'm sorry but the $986 billion was the amount of spending authorized under the latest deal. NOT the total amount of new debt that the government is authorized to incur. The increase to the debt limit has NOT yet been disclosed.

Melonie
10-18-2013, 05:51 PM
^^^ yup technically you are right. Apparently the debt limit has been suspended altogether until next February 7th ... meaning that the gov't can theoretically borrow and spend an unlimited amount of money between now and then.

Per the Washington Times ...

(snip)"Usually Congress sets a borrowing limit, or debt ceiling, that caps the total amount the government can be in the red.

But under the terms of this week’s deal, Congress set a deadline instead of a dollar cap. That means debt will rise by as much as the government spends between now and the Feb. 7 deadline."(snip)